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View Full Version : Analysts say health care law means fewer on job



mick silver
5th February 2014, 07:40 AM
just how many here seen this coming ? Analysts say health care law means fewer on jobhttp://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/oXh_6AJBHy_uEbdrklkymA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9Zml0O2g9Mjg-/http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/)By ANDREW TAYLOR and RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR | Associated Press – 12 hrs ag



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View Photo (http://news.yahoo.com/lightbox/file-march-23-2010-file-photo-president-barack-photo-000445599.html)Associated Press/Charles Dharapak, File - FILE - In this March 23, 2010, file photo, President Barack Obama reaches for a pen to sign the health care bill in the East Room of the White House in Washington. …more



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WASHINGTON (AP) — Several million American workers will cut back their hours on the job or leave the nation's workforce entirely because of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, congressional analysts said Tuesday, adding fresh fuel to the political fight over "Obamacare."
The workforce changes would mean nationwide losses equal to 2.3 million full-time jobs by 2021, in large part because people would opt to keep their income low to stay eligible for federal health care subsidies or Medicaid, the Congressional Budget Office said. It had estimated previously that the law would lead to 800,000 fewer jobs by that year.
Republican lawmakers seized on the report as major new evidence of what they consider the failures of Obama's overhaul, the huge change in U.S. health coverage that they're trying to overturn and planning to use as a main argument against Democrats in November's midterm elections.
It's the latest indication that "the president's health care law is destroying full-time jobs," said Republican Rep. John Kline of Minnesota, chairman of the House Education and the Workforce Committee. "This fatally flawed health care scheme is wreaking havoc on working families nationwide," he said.
But the White House said the possible reduction would be due to voluntary steps by workers rather than businesses cutting jobs — people having the freedom to retire early or spend more time as stay-at-home parents because they no longer had to depend only on their employers for health insurance.
The law means people "will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods," said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney.
CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said the top reasons people would reduce work would be to qualify for subsidized coverage and an expanded Medicaid program but that lower wages — because of penalties on employers who don't provide coverage and looming taxes on generous health care plans — would also be a factor.
The agency also reduced its estimate of the number of uninsured people who will get coverage through the health care law. The budget experts now say 1 million more people will be uninsured this year than had been expected, partly because of the website problems that prevented people from signing up last fall.
However, it wasn't all bad news for the Obama administration. The CBO's wide-ranging report predicted that the federal budget deficit will fall to $514 billion this year, down from last year's $680 billion and the lowest by far since Obama took office five years ago.
The new estimates also say that the health care law will, in the short run, benefit the economy by boosting demand for goods and services because the lower-income people it helps will have more purchasing power. The report noted that the 2014 premiums that people pay for exchange coverage are coming in about 15 percent lower than projected, and the health care law, on balance, still is expected to reduce the federal deficit.
However, the budget experts see the long-term federal deficit picture worsening by about $100 billion a year through the end of the decade because of slower growth in the economy than they had previously predicted.
As for health care signups, the website woes have largely been cleared up, but the nonpartisan congressional analysts estimated that about 1 million fewer people will enroll through the new insurance exchanges than had been expected this year, for a total of 6 million.
Enrollment is predicted to pick up, topping 20 million in 2016. The exchanges, or online marketplaces, offer subsidized private coverage and cater mainly to middle-class people who don't have health care on the job.
The Congressional Budget Office also revised its Medicaid enrollment projection downward by about 1 million, for a new total of 8 million signups in 2014. About half the states have accepted the health law's Medicaid expansion.
What about those people whose decisions about work might be affected by the new law?
Lower-wage workers are more likely to reduce their hours or quit their jobs because of Obamacare incentives, the report said.
Although some employers will choose not to hire additional workers, or will reduce hours, the budget office said that does not appear to be the main factor.
"The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses' demand for labor," the report said.
The health care analysis is layered with complexity. The job losses are measured in "full-time-equivalent workers," which means more people are actually affected than, say, the 2 million full-time-equivalent jobs lost in 2017. It could take several part-time workers or people deciding to reduce their hours to produce the wage loss of one full-time equivalent.
The report also contains an important caveat, that the estimate of job losses is "subject to substantial uncertainty" and could be larger or smaller than predicted. There now are more than 130 million jobs in the economy.
Meanwhile, the broad federal deficit projection shows another yearly improvement. Obama inherited an economy in crisis and the first deficits ever to exceed $1 trillion. The 2009 total, swelled by the costs of the Wall Street bailout, hit a record $1.4 trillion, while the deficits of 2010 and 2011 each registered $1.3 trillion.
The agency sees the deficit sliding to $478 billion next year before beginning a steady rise years through 2024 that would bring the annual imbalance back above $1 trillion. Overall, it forecasts deficits totaling $7.3 trillion over the coming decade, about $1 trillion more than previously estimated.
"CBO expects that economic growth will diminish to a pace that is well below the average seen over the past several decades," the report said, citing an aging population and a decrease in the rate of growth in the labor force.
Tuesday's report comes as Obama and Republicans in Congress are taking a respite in the budget wars that have periodically consumed Washington since Republicans took control of the House in 2011. The declining deficit numbers mean they could feel even less urgency to act now.
A December budget agreement and last month's follow-up spending bill could buy peace through November's midterm elections. Republicans also appear to be taking a less confrontational approach to legislation needed this month to increase the government's borrowing limit to avoid defaulting on its obligations.

Twisted Titan
5th February 2014, 09:58 AM
Think its bad now?

Just wait till the businesses have to comply 2015 or face penalties that will be the final nail in the coffin to small and intermediate business

monty
5th February 2014, 10:39 AM
Since Obumercare is in Title 26 of the CFR and CFR TITLE 26 is the Social Security code does It mean if you don't participante in Social Security you are excluded from OBUMERCARE ?

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mick silver
5th February 2014, 10:59 AM
seen on the local news last night were more people are just stopping to work at all so they can get all the free stuff that the gov giving to people

mick silver
5th February 2014, 11:00 AM
what i have seen you will have to pay twice ... kidding , dont know about that
Since Obumercare is in Title 26 of the CFR and CFR TITLE 26 is the Social Security code does It mean if you don't participante in Social Security you are excluded from OBUMERCARE ?

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7th trump
5th February 2014, 11:01 AM
Since Obumercare is in Title 26 of the CFR and CFR TITLE 26 is the Social Security code does It mean if you don't participante in Social Security you are excluded from OBUMERCARE ?

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Actually Monty, Social Security, as a whole, is codified in Title 42....as well as obamacare.
You see social security in title 26 at Subtitle C "employment taxes"(chapter 21) because the government is saying if you voluntarily participate in Social Security you earn 42usc 409 "wages" (which are 3121(a) "wages" in title 26, for the purpose of collecting the Social Security taxes).
You also see 42usc 410 "employment" (which is 26usc 3121(b) "employment" having the purpose that 26usc 3121(a) "wages" are in respect to).
Now as far as 26usc 3401(a) "wages" goes (also found in Subtitle C "employment Taxes" (chapter 24) see what is listed in 26usc 3401(a) "wages" is excluded from being 26usc 3401(a) "wages"...............what you are going to find is the 3401(a) exclusions all originate from Social Security.
Now as far as obumercare goes...its codified in title 42, as a whole, just like Social Security is, however, the pertainent sections of obamacare relating to collecting of the tax for not having insurance will be found in title 26.
So to answer your question.
If you dont participate in Social security there is no requirement of filing a 1040 to begin with as you dont earn 3121(a) "wages" nor 3401(a) "wages" (both are one in the same "wages") so there is no refund for the IRS to collect the obamacare tax from.
As of right now obamacare can only collect the tax off any income tax refund. Without a refund obamacare is toothless.
Its the only way the government could impose the obumercare tax is from deducting it from any refund you might have.
Obamacare is not a tax itself and isnt codified in Title 26....what is codified in title 26 is "when and what" they collect the obamacare tax from, which is the refund initiated from filing a 1040 which is from participating in social security resulting in earning "wages".

jimswift
5th February 2014, 11:30 AM
So to answer your question.
If you dont participate in Social security there is no requirement of filing a 1040 to begin with as you dont earn 3121(a) "wages" nor 3401(a) "wages" (both are one in the same "wages") so there is no refund for the IRS to collect the obamacare tax from.
As of right now obamacare can only collect the tax off any income tax refund. Without a refund obamacare is toothless.


winner, winner chicken dinner...I know you catch flack for staying on this point, but IT IS the point.

Neuro
5th February 2014, 11:57 AM
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View Photo (http://news.yahoo.com/lightbox/file-march-23-2010-file-photo-president-barack-photo-000445599.html)Associated Press/Charles Dharapak, File - FILE - In this March 23, 2010, file photo, President Barack


Antichrist and his 11 disciples?

madfranks
5th February 2014, 01:27 PM
That smug smile on Pelosi's face pisses me off! I heard her on some interview with some pundit or other basically denying she had any knowledge or means of stopping any of these negative side effects of the law! She practically denied that she had anything to do with it! These lying politicians make me want to break something!!

gunDriller
5th February 2014, 02:15 PM
i was disgusted by Bush, but it is possible that i am even more disgusted by Obama.


not a subject i even like thinking about.

maybe Cheney is even more disgusting than Bush or Obama ?

7th trump
5th February 2014, 04:15 PM
winner, winner chicken dinner...I know you catch flack for staying on this point, but IT IS the point.

Yep it is the point, but look at the lack of response/interest in doing something for themselves.
Many here think they are enslaved by force and put the blame on someone else. They wait for someone to do something before they themselves do anything for themselves.....will never happen.
They are enslaved because they want to be enslaved. They all want the government to take care of them and they want to bitch. Or they are lovers to other people feeding them fallacy after fallacy that builds up this mountain of mysticism that chains them from doing anything. They allowed themselves to get fooled, enslaved and then fooled again in doing something for themselves....they are pathetic and deserve their chains straight to the fema camps.
Not very many here at GSUS worthy to mention the names of the founding fathers.

zap
5th February 2014, 04:41 PM
thats the point.[/QUOTE]obamacare can only collect the tax off any income tax refund.

That's why you need to adjust you withholdings so you don't get a refund in April !

I can't believe the people who give the government a free loan with no interest. They say oh yay!

I get a refund, hell don't give them the money in the first place !

monty
5th February 2014, 05:31 PM
thats the point. Obamacare can only collect the tax off any income tax refund. That's why you need to adjust you withholdings so you don't get a refund in April ! I can't believe the people who give the government a free loan with no interest. They say oh yay! I get a refund, hell don't give them the money in the first place !

Adjusting the withholding is not the answer. The answer is to not sign a form W-4 and quit participating in Social Security. Save your employer 7 1/2 % FICA tax! invest your share of FICA, Medicare and income tax in precious metals (physical) in your posession and you will not need to rely on a Social Security pension check when you are my age. Edit: If everyone in America would opt out of Social Security the Obamacare would die on the vine. Social Security and Medicare would shrivel and die. The federal Reserve would not receive the interest payments on the national debt from the income tax. See Ronald Regan's Grace Commision report . . . The income tax doesn't fund the government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grace_Commission


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7th trump
5th February 2014, 05:49 PM
Adjusting the withholding is not the answer. The answer is to not sign a form W-4 and quit participating in Social Security. Save your employer 7 1/2 % FICA tax! invest your share of FICA, Medicare and income tax in precious metals (physical) in your posession and you will not need to rely on a Social Security pension check when you are my age.

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You got it Monty!

FYI, the reason a W4 is required is to participate in Social Security.

Stop participating in Social Security and none of the deductions are withheld....nothing....you keep 100% of your earnings!
If the employers only knew they save 7.5%(per employee) in FICA taxes alone, not including other taxes that are in respect to 3121(b) "employment" they wouldn't be fighting obamacare....no need to fight it.
A W4 is signed by reason of the employee to decide to participate.....employer doesn't have a say, but they don't understand this legality.

The government is reduced that much revenue to spend.
In essence the government is out of control because of our ignorance (and a lot of government helping that ignorance along).

monty
5th February 2014, 05:58 PM
You got it Monty! FYI, the reason a W4 is required is to participate in Social Security. Stop participating in Social Security and none of the deductions are withheld....nothing....you keep 100% of your earnings! If the employers only knew they save 7.5%(per employee) in FICA taxes alone, not including other taxes that are in respect to 3121(b) "employment" they wouldn't be fighting obamacare....no need to fight it. A W4 is signed by reason of the employee to decide to participate.....employer doesn't have a say, but they don't understand this legality. The government is reduced that much revenue to spend. In essence the government is out of control because of our ignorance (and a lot of government helping that ignorance along).

I was lied to when I was 14 and got my first job. I was told it was necessary to have a Social Security number to work. It was not until after "Al Gore invented the internet" that I learned the truth. By then I had already paid in enough to draw a pension check. If I had known what I know today I would have quit social security and used the deductions from my pay to buy gold and silver and buried it in the ground.

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