Brandon Smith-Excellent article cuts to the quick. Decentrallize

[woodman]

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/non-participation-and-decentralization-as-primers-for-revolution_02122014 I thought he summed things up pretty well in this article. It is worth reading twice, just to really see how clearly he nailed it; the state we are in; the perpe(traitors); the solution.

[mick silver]

“Okay, now we know what the problem is, but when are YOU going to tell US what the solution is…?”

[Tumbleweed]

This quote from the article is the one that I see as most important

"Revolution must be directed at the oligarchs, not just their mascots, and if anyone asks you to rally around a revolution that does not name central banking and international banking entities and the men who run them as direct culprits, they are probably controlled opposition. We don’t need a French or Bolshevik Revolution to replace old puppets with new puppets, we need to go to the very heart of the cancer that has stricken our nation and remove it. If this means we have to physically fight back, then so be it, but we must be smart in how we fight."


A lot of what he wrote about was how to feed, cloth and provide shelter for yourself and family. The farmers in the Ukraine were able to do all those things but the Jews sent the military to take away their ability to do that. They wern't armed and they failed in their attempts at resistance. As he says the the people behind the politicians and their control of banking have to be eliminated.

I believe Germany in the 1930's found the solution but were destroyed by the lies and treachery used against them by the predators who were preying on them. It's to bad they didn't go after the power behind the politicians and the media.

[Ares]

Bradon Smith is a fucking idiot. He over writes the source of the problem without really even diving into a real solution. Okay, decentralization. What does "decentralization" mean to you Brandon? How exactly do you buy "resource rich" land that is owned by the state? How do you remove yourself from the system when it's so pervasive and seeps into every facet of your life?

He's a moronic shill with no real solution.

[palani]

How exactly do you buy "resource rich" land that is owned by the state?
(1) Roosevelt eliminated your ability to 'buy' anything when he removed gold from your society in 1933. What options does that leave you when it comes to land ownership?
(2) The state does not have the means to own land. They lack the requisite means to possess land. Possessio est quasi pedis positio. Possession is, as it were, the position of the foot. Show me where a state even has a foot.



How do you remove yourself from the system when it's so pervasive and seeps into every facet of your life? quod erat demonstrandum (Q.E.D.)
“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

[Ares]

Show me where a state even has a foot.

It's called property taxes.

[palani]

It's called property taxes.
You have to stop reacting to imaginary entities.

I was questioned on another board about my belief in the moon landing(s). I stated that these did not happen. When asked why I believed that my response was 'there is no moon'. I suppose I could have engaged in a discussion of flags waving, shadows, lack of stars, etc ad infinity but so far nobody has presented any proof to me that there is a moon to have landed on.

[Ares]

You have to stop reacting to imaginary entities.

I was questioned on another board about my belief in the moon landing(s). I stated that these did not happen. When asked why I believed that my response was 'there is no moon'. I suppose I could have engaged in a discussion of flags waving, shadows, lack of stars, etc ad infinity but so far nobody has presented any proof to me that there is a moon to have landed on.

Do you, or do you not pay property taxes on your land in Iowa?

[palani]

Do you, or do you not pay property taxes on your land in Iowa?

I own no land in Iowa.

A claim has been established on 1,600 square miles m/l of previously abandoned property within the exterior boundary of Iowa but no tax will ever be paid on this land. If I remember correctly the claim states that this property will be held until a better claim is established. The action was taken to abate the nuisance. In any event ... it is not within Iowa so how might they tax it?

[7th trump]

(1) Roosevelt eliminated your ability to 'buy' anything when he removed gold from your society in 1933. What options does that leave you when it comes to land ownership?
(2) The state does not have the means to own land. They lack the requisite means to possess land. Possessio est quasi pedis positio. Possession is, as it were, the position of the foot. Show me where a state even has a foot.


quod erat demonstrandum (Q.E.D.)
“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

What makes you beleive only a person using gold to purchase land actually bought the land?
Where in the law does it say gold is the only form of money you can buy land with?

[7th trump]

I own no land in Iowa.

A claim has been established on 1,600 square miles m/l of previously abandoned property within the exterior boundary of Iowa but no tax will ever be paid on this land. If I remember correctly the claim states that this property will be held until a better claim is established. The action was taken to abate the nuisance. In any event ... it is not within Iowa so how might they tax it?

Ares dont get sucked into palanis double speak.
His land is in a trust and the trust pays the property taxes.....in other words palani is using his money to pay the property taxes through the trust.
Palani likes to play word salad semantics.

[mick silver]

i bought land with my labor . i worked two jobs . they may have been easer ways but no one gave me the land for free ......................................nor do they pay the taxes for me

[palani]

What makes you beleive only a person using gold to purchase land actually bought the land? Where have I suggested that only gold may be used to purchase land? Are you delusional?


Where in the law does it say gold is the only form of money you can buy land with? Where in law does it say you may buy land with anything?

As always you choose to misinterpret and attack on your own presumptions. Poor sod!!

[palani]

His land is in a trust and the trust pays the property taxes.....in other words palani is using his money to pay the property taxes through the trust.

I have no land in Iowa. I guess this statement is too simple for your complicated mind to comprehend?

[palani]

i bought land with my labor
Land belongs to its creator. And anyway land itself is nothing as the concept comprehends a volume in space rather than the contents of that volume. Land is a geometric construct.

[mick silver]

huh is that the best you have . tell us all how you pay for stuff again .

[palani]

tell us all how you pay for stuff again .
I don't. The communists have succeeded in abolishing private property. Should I start an argument with them when I have been instructed to agree with them?

However ... I do claim ownership of alloidal title to a $5 gold piece and twenty one silver dollars so I guess they haven't completely accomplished the abolition of private property.

[mick silver]

so your on welfare

[palani]

so your on welfare
With my riches? I don't believe I qualify for this benefit. Isn't that reserved for the poor people?

[mick silver]

do tell us all how you pay no taxes and live the rich life with no help and have all that free land . i know were there some land coming up for sale and i would like to get it for free

[BarnkleBob]

Washington D.C. corrupt??? Ya dont say!

The "TRIFFIN DILLEMA" is a contradiction and paradox that occurs in the Empires leadership, namely the political & financial elites must act & react in the best interests of the empires external vassal states, whil at the same time they must also serve the domestic agenda.... The "dillema" creates conflicts between both the internal domestic & external policies.... creating paradoxes & conflicts within & without for central planners.....

The seat of the empire is Washington D.C., the vassal states and their agents (lobbyists) converge upon the empire seeking SPECIAL privileges and other benefits for the vassal state and its political & economic elites.... Hence the political elites of the U.S. empire serve dual roles, one domestic, the other international.... Legislative policies that strengthen and support the empire are usually NOT compatible with the domestic policies, nor are they usually constitutional.... And most domestic agendas & policies CONFLICT with the empires long & short wants, needs, requirements & planning....

The success of the empire will also lead to its downfall.... Triffins Dillema and the dual roles (domestic & international) is and will tear the BOTH political processes into shreds... Can the elites serve two masters? It doesnt seem likely or probable... Either the domestic agenda is fulfilled or the Global neccessities of empire are served.... But both interest cannot be properly served or maintained somultaneously!

From this perspective, which is backed by millenias of history, the rise of the domestic police state with its numerous alphabet agencies seems to indicate that a political & economic decision has been entered into to support the policies of empire, while rejecting the domestic needs & requirements.... IOW when the political machinery legislatively enacts unpopular anti-democratic legislation to support the empire at the expense of common good & general welfare of the domestic agenda, the constructed police state apparatus will be employed to "put down" ANY domestic dissent & dissenters that DO NOT support the political & economic policies of the empire.... JMO

[Jewboo]

This quote from the article is the one that I see as most important

"Revolution must be directed at the oligarchs, not just their mascots, and if anyone asks you to rally around a revolution that does not name central banking and international banking entities and the men who run them as direct culprits, they are probably controlled opposition. We don’t need a French or Bolshevik Revolution to replace old puppets with new puppets, we need to go to the very heart of the cancer that has stricken our nation and remove it. If this means we have to physically fight back, then so be it, but we must be smart in how we fight."


A lot of what he wrote about was how to feed, cloth and provide shelter for yourself and family. The farmers in the Ukraine were able to do all those things but the Jews sent the military to take away their ability to do that. They weren't armed and they failed in their attempts at resistance. As he says the the people behind the politicians and their control of banking have to be eliminated.

I believe Germany in the 1930's found the solution but were destroyed by the lies and treachery used against them by the predators who were preying on them. It's to bad they didn't go after the power behind the politicians and the media.




http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Screen-Shot-2013-02-22-at-10.15.05-AM.png





Hitler tried to eliminate them but our own parents stopped him from eliminating them.








:rolleyes: he was our last and final hope and we blew it...

[palani]

do tell us all how you pay no taxes and live the rich life with no help and have all that free land . 1) pay no taxes = have no income
2) live the rich life = have no debts
3) all that free land = it is all around you ... but you have to have eyes to see and ears to hear.... and not be lacking in the capacity to seize it.




i know were there some land coming up for sale and i would like to get it for free Paper buys paper. You exchange paper fiat for a paper receipt or a paper deed. Paper covers rock (in a maritime environment) while scissors cuts paper (steel sharpens steel). Do you carry scissors with you?

Do you think you are buying an automobile? Or are you receiving a certificate of title for your money?

[Jewboo]

The seat of the empire is Washington D.C.




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_eU9T9cu6NE/TXJ1cbzU3zI/AAAAAAAAFrA/okMxIBB-V8g/s320/obama_kissinger.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--w1ftuP1tb8/Tzq4Hmr4WBI/AAAAAAAACOc/m2kI3rsBf9s/s320/kissinger-bush.jpg

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/palin-kissinger.jpg

http://secretaryclinton.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/610x-157.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Reagan_with_Henry_Kissinger.jpg

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2012-06/70505709.jpg

http://radioislam.org/eng/What-Is-This-Carnage-About_fichiers/kissinger_golder.jpg
Israel's first President with their Washington rabbi Kissinger








:rolleyes: same Israeli jew running the show...only the "elected" goyim stooges change

[Hitch]

3) all that free land = it is all around you ... but you have to have eyes to see and ears to hear.... and not be lacking in the capacity to seize it.

palani, are you talking about squatter's rights?

[palani]

are you talking about squatter's rights?
When something is abandoned anyone may abate the nuisance as long as the public is aware of what is happening.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2lcmbts.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/9ptg1c.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/5dutqs.jpg

[mick silver]

now i know who palani is ..............Mountain man Mick Dodge loves the wild but isn't a 'wild man'


http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/graphics/arrow-left-2.png (http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20140119/NEWS/301199998/0/news/mountain-man-mick-dodge-loves-the-wild-but-isnt-a-wild-man#)
1 / 4
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/graphics/arrow-right-2.png (http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20140119/NEWS/301199998/0/news/mountain-man-mick-dodge-loves-the-wild-but-isnt-a-wild-man#)

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=PT&Date=20140119&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=301199998&Ref=AR&maxw=350

Joe Smillie/Peninsula Daily News

Mick Dodge, subject of the National Geographic Channel show, “The Legend of Mick Dodge.”


By Joe Smillie
Peninsula Daily News




Most Popular this week





Many things aren't what they seem . .
SEE RELATED STORY about "reality" TV — "Duck Decoy: How the entertainment industry made the Duck Dynasty family into rednecks."

Copy and click on this URL: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2014/01/duck_decoy048544.php


FORKS –– The National Geographic Channel's new show “The Legend of Mick Dodge” depicts a man who checked out of the world 25 years ago to live wild in the Hoh Rain Forest.

Not exactly.

“It's a show. It's a TV show,” Dodge told the Peninsula Daily News on Thursday.

“If you think anything that's on TV is real, then welcome to America.”

In an interview with the Forks Forum weekly newspaper, he euphemistically labeled the show “scripted reality,” with the filmmakers calling the shots.

But some of it is not all that far off, he said.

As shown in the series, which airs Tuesdays and Saturdays until Feb. 11, Dodge spends time bartering and working out in the woods.

“I'm no survivalist.” Dodge said.

“I'm just a guy who loves this mountain and feels passionately about physical fitness and the connection between the two.”

But he lives in a house, although he has no permanent residence. He works for a living, although he doesn't like to use currency.

He doesn't even have his own cellphone.

But he does have a home he loves to play in.

“To me, the 6,500 square miles of the Olympic Mountains are the perfect home,” he said. “And I have terrific roommates.”

Northwest training

He provides training on a “Flintstones”-styled gym he has scattered in the mountains and on beaches throughout the Northwest.

Those looking for his rugged training regimen turn to the Olympic Mountain EarthWisdom Circle, which offers the workout sessions, held in Forks and elsewhere.

A weeklong training session in New York is $650. A two-week “shamanic retreat” in Guatemala is $3,450.

The group in return looks after Dodge's needs.

On Thursday, he spoke to a PDN reporter in a cabin near the Sol Duc River that the EarthWisdom Circle has put Dodge up in.

He's had the National Geographic Channel give his pay directly to the EarthWisdom Circle.

His Washington state driver's license is current, with the address 2374 Rain Forest Road in Forks, right in the heart of the Hoh River Valley.

Dodge inherited that ground from his father, and it has a cabin on it, but he said it is no longer inhabitable and that he plans to donate the ground to the EarthWisdom Circle.

'Earth Gym'

Dodge, also known as the Barefoot Sensei, the Barefoot Nomad and Walking Mountain, runs what he calls an “Earth Gym.”

His gym has barbells stashed in tree stumps and in rock formations throughout the American West.

He is shown retrieving heavy clothes for a hike in the Upper Hoh Valley on the show. He said he actually keeps hidden supplies stashed along with his exercise equipment.

“I like it when they get rusty because then they get lighter and I can lift like I did when I was younger,” the 62-year-old Dodge said.

When not near his equipment, he picks up sticks and stones and twists bark into rope to sling over limbs for an improvised workout.

He believes spending time in the wild, climbing mountains and running barefoot through forests is the most natural — and cheapest — way to keep the human body in peak shape.

His hope for doing the TV show was to spread that message.

Doesn't watch the show

“They can show whatever story they want to show. It's their show now,” he said.

“I just wanted the chance to spread the word, to get people to tap back in to what the Earth has to say.”

But he isn't watching it.

“I would love to see my friends and what they did with us,” Dodge said.

“So I sat and tried to watch it, but then when I saw my face or heard my voice, it just kind of twisted my guts.”

He has run through the mountains barefoot.

Roots run up his feet in a tattoo he got from a friend in Chelan several years ago.

“Dammit, those hurt,” he said. “There's all sorts of little bones and nerve endings in your feet.”

Running barefoot taps into those nerves, he said, and raises awareness of being in the wild.

“That's where it all comes in: the feet,” he said. “Beware the shoe salesman.”

Shoeing up

His shoeless wanderings are played up in the first few episodes of “The Legend,” but Dodge said he constantly warns those he trains to shoe up when they get too wild.

“Out here, you really learn the value of rubber boots,” he said. “I almost lost my damn toes in the mountains one time when I got too cocky about it. Never make that mistake again.”

In an episode of “The Legend,” Dodge finds a fir tree burl he tries to trade his friend Karl Holmquist, who really does run Mountain Man Leather Works outside Forks, for a pair of leather pants to get a new bow.

When Holmquist deems the pants more expensive than the burl, Dodge and his “apprentice” — a trainee from Portland, Ore. — set out to pick berries.

They smash the wild huckleberries and blackberries with their feet into “jelly juice” that covers the rest of the pants bill.

Yes, the berries were real, and yes, he crushed them with his feet, but the scene was Dodge playing with the camera crew, he said.

“I had to give them something fun to show,” he said.

The National Geographic Channel found Dodge through Seattle's Screaming Flea Productions studio.

They started working on a television project with Dodge after getting videos from a group of young women who had trained with him on Whidbey Island.

Camera crews followed Dodge from April through October.

“They had it rough, climbing uphill with those cameras,” Dodge said. “But they were lucky enough that we dodged the rain for most of the time.”

Marine Corps roots

A Marine Corps veteran, Dodge once worked as a military mechanic.

Living without a car at Fort Lewis in the 1970s, Dodge camped out on the base's outer edges to avoid cold journeys to his house 5 miles away.

“I used to run to work every day,” he said. “Then I started camping out at Fort Lewis, and the Earth just kind of tapped on my shoulder, reminding me to come back.

In 1981, Dodge set out to take a run from his home north of Olympia to Seattle.

And then kept going.

He ran north to Snohomish before deciding to tackle Stevens Pass and moving on to Chelan.

“And that's when I just plugged into this whole network of mountain people,” he said.

He grew up a military brat, following his father, Ronald L. Dodge, around the world and graduating from high school in Okinawa, Japan.

Dodge's great-grandfather settled in the Hoh Rain Forest, and young Mick would spend his summers adventuring in the mountains.

Back to the future

While television shows Dodge as a Luddite who has spurned the modern world for primitive life, he does enjoy retreating back into the creature comforts of home.

“I'm not big on crowds, and I do prefer to be out in the gated wild,” Dodge said.

“But I can carry on a conversation — on a phone, if I can get reception. A guy that's been in the woods for 25 years is just going to flinch when you try to talk to him — or just run away.”

As for fame, he deflects it by grabbing onto a limb and reciting poetry as he does a few pull-ups.

“That's just one more thing I've got to dodge,” he said. “That's why they gave me this name.”

________

Sequim-Dungeness Valley Editor Joe Smillie can be reached at 360-681-2390, ext. 5052, or at jsmillie@peninsuladailynews.com.

[Hitch]

When something is abandoned anyone may abate the nuisance as long as the public is aware of what is happening.

So, you are talking about squatter's rights.

Define abandoned for us? Define aware?

A man needs to know if he's unaware, or if he has 'abandoned' his property.

[palani]

So, you are talking about squatter's rights. More like DISCOVERERS RIGHTS.


Define abandoned for us? ABANDONMENT, rights. The relinquishment of a right; the giving up of something to which we are entitled.
http://i59.tinypic.com/2elqpo9.jpg

Define aware? Conscious, knowing within one's self. We are aware of a thing when we calculate upon it; we are on our guard against it when we are prepared for it; we are apprized of that which we have had an intimation, and are conscious of that in which we have ourselves been concerned.


A man needs to know if he's unaware, or if he has 'abandoned' his property.
How about if you are the government and you put out public notice that you intend to abandon your property?
http://water.epa.gov/action/adopt/index.cfm

[Hitch]

I think I understand your point, palani. I can't articulate it. Also, I don't see how it could possibly hold up in our current system though.

[palani]

I don't see how it could possibly hold up in our current system though.

Aren't you a trespasser unless you are on your own property? Can you trespass when you are on your own claim? A claim on abandoned property costs me little but provides me with a reason for being there. And if I am not there (within the EXTERIOR boundaries of the state) then I might very well be found in the INTERIOR boundaries of the state and subject to all sort of things I would rather not be subject to. Relative to the cost of establishing the claim I have gotten quite a lot of utility.

[Hitch]

Aren't you a trespasser unless you are on your own property? Can you trespass when you are on your own claim? A claim on abandoned property costs me little but provides me with a reason for being there. And if I am not there (within the EXTERIOR boundaries of the state) then I might very well be found in the INTERIOR boundaries of the state and subject to all sort of things I would rather not be subject to. Relative to the cost of establishing the claim I have gotten quite a lot of utility.

Palani, are you talking about mineral rights? I've looked into putting in claims on BLM for mineral rights, and it's exactly how you describe in this post.

By claiming the rights, you establish a "reason" for being there. As long as you can justify, articulate, your rights to the land you really own it. I've been wanting to post my research on this subject, but haven't yet.

[palani]

Palani, are you talking about mineral rights? I've looked into putting in claims on BLM for mineral rights, and it's exactly how you describe in this post.

By claiming the rights, you establish a "reason" for being there. As long as you can justify, articulate, your rights to the land you really own it. I've been wanting to post my research on this subject, but haven't yet.
Similar but not precisely. There are many ways to describe a thing. Should you look at any deed in this area you will find they are in the state .. they begin at a township and range. A township is part of the body politic of a county which is an administrative subdivision of a state.

This scheme makes taxing inevitable. The state taxes you on things IN THEIR STATE. I, on the other hand, have seized abandoned property NOT in the state .. or , as the Washington State statutes like to define this as 'within this state' ... the federal zone within the exterior boundaries of the state. Word games but then I didn't start it ... THEY DID!!! So as long as they created the concept and then the feds abandoned it (put it up for adoption?) why wouldn't I be interested in abating the nuisance they created until someone with a better claim came along?

In the interim ... the state isn't going to tax property that is not within their INTERIOR boundaries ... they simply have no basis for a claim of taxation. And by this little bit of magic a claim now exists (a right?) for which no tax needs paid. Isn't that a goal? And .. better yet ... this claim is not in a COMMERCIAL plane. No money exchanged hands to establish the claim.

[zap]

Really Palani , why can you just say what you mean instead of talking in riddles.

What I call Circle Talking, someone yaps and yaps and talks and round and around we go and never makes a point?
I have one friend who does this and I constantly tell her after listening to her for 5 or 10 min as not to be rude,

Will you please get to the point, life is to short for CIRCLE TALKING.

What are you trying to say ? Please spit it out and get to the point!

[palani]

why can you just say what you mean instead of talking in riddles.

A state is a body politic ... a group of people. They set up a HQ ... and call it a capital. They attach territory to the capital ... give the territory an outline and pretty soon people start believing that the state is that outline. They execute their laws on their people within that territory. In reality they are performing commerce just like, say, the Hoover Vacuum Corp (HVC). They call their commercial activities The State. You be one of their salesmen and you be 'in the state'. For anyone else (as an example ... a salesman for the Jackrabbit Vaccum Corp - JVC) .. they refer to their activities in the same general geographic area as being 'in this state'. But all those opposing salesmen are traipsing through the same area of the country.

Well, of course if the HVC issues a law that all their salesmen shall wear blue suits on Wednesday do you suppose that the salesmen of the JVC consider this their law as well? Of course not. They wear a distinctive uniform all their own.

'In the state' refers to people who pay homage to the state constitution (HVC people). 'In this state' refers to people who pay homage to the federal constitution (JVC people ... they belong to a different 'state').

[There might also be other people floating around that don't pay homage to either HVC or JVC but as long as they don't sell vacuums they are transparent ... can't be seen... or if they start causing problems we will call them illegal aliens and ship their vacuum sellin' a$$s back to their own manufacturing facilities]

'Within the interior boundaries of the state' refers to a political status and physical location. It means that the one being charged (for lack of a better description) is being charged under the state constitution. 'Within the exterior boundaries of the state' also refers to a different sort of political status as well as physical location. This phrase means the one being charged is going to be prosecuted under the federal constitution.

As to the abandoned property ... most definitely it is within this state (exterior to the constitution of the state and not subject to state rules at all). That means it will be subject to federal laws though. Since it is not located in 'the state' it is not going to be subject to state taxation. It is not even recorded in 'the state'. The feds have received their notice of what is happening (I have a photo of the federal agent accepting the notice posted for their benefit) and so far have gone silent on the issue.

Now I claim no ownership of this land that was abandoned. I merely claim to hold it until a superior claim is presented to me and I do so to abate a nuisance ... common law hates to see property of any sort abandoned.

Now how can I be any clearer than that?

[messianicdruid]

Now I claim no ownership of this land that was abandoned. I merely claim to hold it until a superior claim is presented to me and I do so to abate a nuisance ... common law hates to see property of any sort abandoned.

Now how can I be any clearer than that?That does seem a little clearer.

Here is a situation: I am considering a move to Osage County { with the "purchase" of five acres } which was reserved by treaty to the Osage Nation. Most of the "land" has been "sold" to non-osages but they retained all the mineral rights. If you want to gather rocks to build a house you must pay them royalties. There are 60 full-blood Osages remaining.

How could any portion of Osage County be considered "abandoned" when it has been reserved for them? Even if I "adopt" the portion known as Bird watershed, and go traipsing around inspecting creeks, ponds and lakes, waiting for someone to present a "superior claim" to my own { which would be that the Creator owns all that He has created } sooner or later there would be a controversy.

[palani]

That does seem a little clearer.

Here is a situation: I am considering a move to Osage County { with the "purchase" of five acres } which was reserved by treaty to the Osage Nation. Most of the "land" has been "sold" to non-osages but they retained all the mineral rights. If you want to gather rocks to build a house you must pay them royalties. There are 60 full-blood Osages remaining.

How could any portion of Osage County be considered "abandoned" when it has been reserved for them? Even if I "adopt" the portion known as Bird watershed, and go traipsing around inspecting creeks, ponds and lakes, waiting for someone to present a "superior claim" to my own { which would be that the Creator owns all that He has created } sooner or later there would be a controversy.

First, you are considering a deal to purchase a part of Osage County. Who created Osage county? This is just an administrative subdivision of the State of Oklahoma. Look at the deed. Does it begin at a township and range? Is this part of the land conveyance known as the Louisiana Purchase? If so that land transfer was arranged by watershed yet no part of any watershed has ever been conveyed by the U.S. government. The County of Osage is in 'the state'. The watershed is in 'this state'. No part of any watershed is in 'the state'. In fact watersheds near the border of a state frequently cross that border into the adjoining state. This is even true of the Canadian - U.S. border and the Mexico-U.S. border.

Mineral rights? Would these be mineral rights in 'the state' or 'in this state'? If you are not in 'the state' are those mineral rights valid in the federal zones? I don't have any answers to this question but I bet the topic hasn't been broached because the feds and the state all want to avoid these type of questions. The idea of an Indian reservation throws another hitch. Would have to look at the paperwork involved in settling the indians on any block of land but I would be willing to bet that they were not given any part of any watershed.

[messianicdruid]

First, you are considering a deal to purchase a part of Osage County. Who created Osage county? This is just an administrative subdivision of the State of Oklahoma. Look at the deed. Does it begin at a township and range? Is this part of the land conveyance known as the Louisiana Purchase? If so that land transfer was arranged by watershed yet no part of any watershed has ever been conveyed by the U.S. government. The County of Osage is in 'the state'. The watershed is in 'this state'. No part of any watershed is in 'the state'.

The reason this struck a chord with me: I was reading a local paper last weekend describing the coming election of a new chief { the old one was just removed for cause } and the candidates were being given opportunity to voice their concerns and the issues they deemed most imporatant to the Osage Tribe. A fellow named Standingbear said he was most concerned about a move by the State of Oklahoma to disestablish the Osage Reservation, supposedly to obtain access to the mineral rights. He was trying to get his people to understand that his people were "under attack".

Considering the other's concerns, I concluded this was the only realist among them, and then considering the above article, we are all in the same boat.

The Osage Reservation contains parts of six watersheds.


If so that land transfer was arranged by watershed yet no part of any watershed has ever been conveyed by the U.S. government.

Conveyed?

[palani]

Conveyed?

Transferred. Sold. Granted. Aliened. Each term has similar meanings.

To what extent does any entity hold on to property? Now consider the same question if that entity is bankrupt. If bankrupt they are no longer independent and it is the creditor who is going to be squealing for his 'return'. The states are all in this condition because they rely on fiat money rather than hard money. Talk about building castles on foundations of sand and this is the situation each of the several states is now faced with. And I don't have the slightest bit of empathy for them because they chose this condition on their own. Neither do I want any bankrupt entity deciding what laws I have to follow. Pretty soon you will find babies being murdered and gays being married if the state can make a buck on the situation.

[messianicdruid]

Transferred. Sold. Granted. Aliened. Each term has similar meanings.

To what extent does any entity hold on to property?

To the extent they can defend their claim.

The Osage at one time held all land between the Missouri and the Arkansas from the Mississippi to the mountains. Now they are reduced to receiving allotment { fiat } checks for oil under the reservation. At one time they had the highest per capita income of any people on the planet, and may still.

It seems that trying to "own" five acres in a place where there are at least three larger entities with "claims" is asking for trouble, unless of course you just think of it as rent.

[palani]

The Osage at one time held all land between the Missouri and the Arkansas from the Mississippi to the mountains. Now they are reduced to receiving allotment { fiat } checks for oil under the reservation. At one time they had the highest per capita income of any people on the planet, and may still.
The last I knew Bill Gates was the greatest debtor in the country. When you deal in fiat you don't become rich ... you become enslaved.


It seems that trying to "own" five acres in a place where there are at least three larger entities with "claims" is asking for trouble, unless of course you just think of it as rent.
If you are attempting to own land in the commercial venue the rules are laid down for you and the destiny is fairly clear. The remedy is to avoid the commercial venue. This venue starts with your surname (occupation).