Bitcoin's Greatest Lesson

[EE_]

From the guy that coined the famous phrase "You don't own it, if you don't hold it", Silver Shield.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29MKPB5WJUE

[Ares]

Silver Shield and other members here keep falling for the Physical vs. Crypto's paradigm. It does NOT have to be Physical vs Crypto's. They can work well benefiting each others. You can't buy anything with gold over the internet (at least nothing that I'm aware of). So you purchase physical store it in a safe or lose it in a boating accident. Either way it sits there just hedging against inflation. With crypto's you can purchase something, from prostitution to car's, home's or land. I would sell a car, home, or land in gold. But not to many other people will. That's the point that Silver Shield and other stackers fail to realize. While we DO recognize the value of physical assets, the vast majority DO NOT. The government indoctrination centers have done a great job removing the concept that gold is money from the cultural memory. But crypto's are able to do what you cannot do with physical. You can leave a country with a small fortune and no one will know but you, thereby capital controls are inconsequential to you.

I still fail to see the rational that Silver Shield or other stackers are promoting going back to a Gold and Silver standard. Yeah the idea is nice, but in practice just like the last time, you're still relying on a state, government or institution to keep the weight and purity consistent. How has that worked out for the past 2,000 years of monetary history? Only ONE empire kept the coin the same weight and purity for 700 years. ONE. So the track record of an unmanipulated gold standard isn't really a solid one.

Use crypto's like you would fiat, use them and their purchasing power to acquire more physical. That's what I'm planning on doing. I'll spend those, and store my wealth in physical. I realize the utility of both, just have to play to their strengths. Silver Shield can promote silver is the gate way to freedom all day long, but it just isn't going to happen with a population who doesn't recognize the value of silver. He or any one of you can prove it to yourself. Go out into a busy street corner and try to sell a SAE for current spot price. Or hell, even try to sell it as a deal for face value. You and I already know how that will turn out.. Probably the same with crypto's.

It's only a small percentage that realize the value and utility of either currency. The vast majority are quite happy with government sponsored counterfeiting.

[EE_]

Silver Shield and other members here keep falling for the Physical vs. Crypto's paradigm. It does NOT have to be Physical vs Crypto's. They can work well benefiting each others. You can't buy anything with gold over the internet (at least nothing that I'm aware of). So you purchase physical store it in a safe or lose it in a boating accident. Either way it sits there just hedging against inflation. With crypto's you can purchase something, from prostitution to car's, home's or land. I would sell a car, home, or land in gold. But not to many other people will. That's the point that Silver Shield and other stackers fail to realize. While we DO recognize the value of physical assets, the vast majority DO NOT. The government indoctrination centers have done a great job removing the concept that gold is money from the cultural memory. But crypto's are able to do what you cannot do with physical. You can leave a country with a small fortune and no one will know but you, thereby capital controls are inconsequential to you.

I still fail to see the rational that Silver Shield or other stackers are promoting going back to a Gold and Silver standard. Yeah the idea is nice, but in practice just like the last time, you're still relying on a state, government or institution to keep the weight and purity consistent. How has that worked out for the past 2,000 years of monetary history? Only ONE empire kept the coin the same weight and purity for 700 years. ONE. So the track record of an unmanipulated gold standard isn't really a solid one.

Use crypto's like you would fiat, use them and their purchasing power to acquire more physical. That's what I'm planning on doing. I'll spend those, and store my wealth in physical. I realize the utility of both, just have to play to their strengths. Silver Shield can promote silver is the gate way to freedom all day long, but it just isn't going to happen with a population who doesn't recognize the value of silver. He or any one of you can prove it to yourself. Go out into a busy street corner and try to sell a SAE for current spot price. Or hell, even try to sell it as a deal for face value. You and I already know how that will turn out.. Probably the same with crypto's.

It's only a small percentage that realize the value and utility of either currency. The vast majority are quite happy with government sponsored counterfeiting.

I don't see a Physical vs. Crypto's paradigm. Not in the same class. One is a real tangable asset that has a known place of origin, (that's manipulated)...the other is a scam that is manipulated and is created by an unknown origin. I do love the concept of cryptos, to be the guy creating something out of nothing, being the first to aquire/accumulate the lion share of coins, before they go on the open market. The creator is the prime beneficiary of the rise in dollar price. The second concept I like about crypto's, they are open game to steal and game the users, because there is no protection, or recource.

The only way to have a gold/silver backed currency, is to the infuse the notes with the precious metals. Anything else will fail. Gold/silver notes, imo, are the only way to truely save the failing dollar.
Probably half the people in the US still believe the US currency is still backed by gold. So you could say, many people still believe in a gold backed system.

I don't ever want to see a crypto-currency totally replace paper fiat. If you really want to see what loss of freedom is, watch what happens when there is no longer fiat/paper currency.

If you don't like the bankers/government debasing the currency, it's so simple to protect from, just by owning gold and silver...converting/spending it as needed.

Selling to strangers on a busy street corner is not a good test. People are to untrusting for that...although I bet I could sell more silver eagles then bitcoins that way.

As far as leaving the country with cryptos, not enough people are willing to take that risk with legit owned money. If the money was illegally obtained by drugs, theft, embezzlement, etc., crytos are more attractive.

[Ares]

I don't see a Physical vs. Crypto's paradigm. Not in the same class. One is a real tangable asset that has a known place of origin, (that's manipulated)...the other is a scam that is manipulated and is created by an unknown origin. I do love the concept of cryptos, to be the guy creating something out of nothing, being the first to aquire/accumulate the lion share of coins, before they go on the open market. The creator is the prime beneficiary of the rise in dollar price. The second concept I like about crypto's, they are open game to steal and game the users, because there is no protection, or recource.

The only way to have a gold/silver backed currency, is to the infuse the notes with the precious metals. Anything else will fail. Gold/silver notes, imo, are the only way to truely save the failing dollar.
Probably half the people in the US still believe the US currency is still backed by gold. So you could say, many people still believe in a gold backed system.

I don't ever want to see a crypto-currency totally replace paper fiat. If you really want to see what loss of freedom is, watch what happens when there is no longer fiat/paper currency.

If you don't like the bankers/government debasing the currency, it's so simple to protect from, just by owning gold and silver...converting/spending it as needed.

Selling to strangers on a busy street corner is not a good test. People are to untrusting for that...although I bet I could sell more silver eagles then bitcoins that way.

As far as leaving the country with cryptos, not enough people are willing to take that risk with legit owned money. If the money was illegally obtained by drugs, theft, embezzlement, etc., crytos are more attractive.

Why I say these arguments are circular. We've gone over those points repeatedly. Call it a scam, no evidence, Bitcoin wasn't premined. Althought a lot of the newer coins are starting out premined. The coins can only be worth anything if the market determines they are worth anything. The creator doesn't get to create them, or the infrastructure to support them, then just declare a value.

It doesn't matter, every point you have put here has been debunked repeatedly here as well as else where.

[EE_]

Why I say these arguments are circular. We've gone over those points repeatedly. Call it a scam, no evidence, Bitcoin wasn't premined. Althought a lot of the newer coins are starting out premined. The coins can only be worth anything if the market determines they are worth anything. The creator doesn't get to create them, or the infrastructure to support them, then just declare a value.

It doesn't matter, every point you have put here has been debunked repeatedly here as well as else where.

What points have I put here have been debunked? (per my post)

1. Are crypto's in the same class as gold/silver?
2. Is bitcoin a tangible asset?
3. Was Mt. Gox scammed? By who, Satoshi Nakamoto?
4. Does the creator of crypto's have an unfair avantage and ability to mine his first before pre-market?
5. Are bitcoins ripe for theft because there's no law against it and no protection, or recource?
6. Do you think we will lose freedom to protect wealth, once there is no paper currency?
7. Do you think you could sell any bitcoins to strangers on a busy street corner...any at all?
8. Do you think many people would risk a million of their hard earned legit money in bitcoin to transfer it to another country?
9. You say crypto's can only be worth anything if the market determines they are worth anything. Are you talking Wall Street and hyper's like Max 'the Jew' Keiser help determining the market?

[Ponce]

FAMOUR PHRASE? SILVER SHIELD? How dare you use those words here in front of me? you are nothing but a traitor....

"IF YOU DON'T HOLD IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT"........Ponce

[EE_]

FAMOUR PHRASE? SILVER SHIELD? How dare you use those words here in front of me? you are nothing but a traitor....

"IF YOU DON'T HOLD IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT"........Ponce

That's great around gsus and gim2, Silver shield has gone mainstream with "you don't own it, if you don't hold it"...even has a silver coin with the motto!
Sorry Ponce, your beef is with Silver Shield, not me.

[Ares]

What points have I put here have been debunked? (per my post)


1. Are crypto's in the same class as gold/silver?

Nope, cryptos are in a class on to themselves.


2. Is bitcoin a tangible asset?

Nope it is a FUNGIBLE asset.

3. Was Mt. Gox scammed? By who, Satoshi Nakamoto?

Mt.Gox imploded due to poorly coded software, and an incompetent CEO.


4. Does the creator of crypto's have an unfair avantage and ability to mine his first before pre-market?

Depends on release. If the the coin being released isn't pre-mined (meaning a percentage has already been mined by the creator before release), then no. The creator has no greater ability to accumulate coins than those who mine it the day it was released than anyone else.


5. Are bitcoins ripe for theft because there's no law against it and no protection, or recource?

What recourse do you have if someone comes into your house, rips apart your safe and steals your gold or silver? You won't get gold or silver returned just the current spot price of their value. And that is IF your insurance company decides that it is a protected asset under your home owner policy. If not, well you're screwed.

6. Do you think we will lose freedom to protect wealth, once there is no paper currency?

How is having paper money protecting my wealth? I see it as a destroyer of wealth.


7. Do you think you could sell any bitcoins to strangers on a busy street corner...any at all?

Depends on country, and location. If I went to Silicone valley, yeah I could sell some crypto's there at current exchange rates. If I were to go to the south east, or the midwest, no. Hardly anyone knows about them, BUT on the same token, I could sell gold or silver in certain locations, just because I know the town (back home) and know the people in the area who value physical gold and silver.


8. Do you think many people would risk a million of their hard earned legit money in bitcoin to transfer it to another country?

Subjective, If they were in the Ukraine, I would say yes. If they were in a relatively stable country, I would say no.


9. You say crypto's can only be worth anything if the market determines they are worth anything. Are you talking Wall Street and hyper's like Max 'the Jew' Keiser help determining the market?

No crypo's Bitcoin and Litecoin in particular had a monetary value BEFORE wall street, and Keiser got involved. The free market isn't Jew York, or Keiser. The free market is any 2 people deciding on the value of an exchange.

[Horn]

Silver Shield and other members here keep falling for the Physical vs. Crypto's paradigm. It does NOT have to be Physical vs Crypto's.

Meanwhile certain other members keep posting articles comparing it as the new Gold...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-k5J4RxQdE

[Jewboo]

It doesn't matter, every point you have put here has been debunked repeatedly here as well as else where.




http://usawatchdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/bagdad_bob_large3.gif
Ares the Bitcoin miner


So why do I logically agree with EE and just happen to notice that you are here still selling us on Bitcoin AFTER $500,000,000 went "missing"?




:rolleyes: how's that Bitcoin mining operation going today?

[EE_]

What points have I put here have been debunked? (per my post)



Nope, cryptos are in a class on to themselves.

1. Gold is money and crypto's are a payment system and speculative vehicle. Okay, settled.

Nope it is a FUNGIBLE asset.

2. So it a substitute for something that has value?

Mt.Gox imploded due to poorly coded software, and an incompetent CEO.

3. You are very fortunate to have such close ties to Mt Gox and the CEO to make such a statement that sounds 100% positive that's what happened. When did you guys hang out last, you must know wher the money went too?

Depends on release. If the the coin being released isn't pre-mined (meaning a percentage has already been mined by the creator before release), then no. The creator has no greater ability to accumulate coins than those who mine it the day it was released than anyone else.

4. The creator has better expertise then you in creating the crypto's...does he also have more expertise in mining his own coins then you?

What recourse do you have if someone comes into your house, rips apart your safe and steals your gold or silver? You won't get gold or silver returned just the current spot price of their value. And that is IF your insurance company decides that it is a protected asset under your home owner policy. If not, well you're screwed.

5. PM's don't need to travel through the internet to have value. Cyber-crimes have replaced physical-crimes in the last decade, or so. You are much more likely to be robbed over the internet today.

How is having paper money protecting my wealth? I see it as a destroyer of wealth.

6. You shouldn't be protecting your wealth in paper money. It is for anonymous business transactions, or normal daily commerce. Taxes are the real destroyer of wealth. Once the transition to all digital currencies is complete, you won't be able to protect yourself from taxes.

Depends on country, and location. If I went to Silicone valley, yeah I could sell some crypto's there at current exchange rates. If I were to go to the south east, or the midwest, no. Hardly anyone knows about them, BUT on the same token, I could sell gold or silver in certain locations, just because I know the town (back home) and know the people in the area who value physical gold and silver.

7.

Subjective, If they were in the Ukraine, I would say yes. If they were in a relatively stable country, I would say no.

8. Ain't happening yet, but many are buying gold in both scenarios

No crypo's Bitcoin and Litecoin in particular had a monetary value BEFORE wall street, and Keiser got involved. The free market isn't Jew York, or Keiser. The free market is any 2 people deciding on the value of an exchange.

9. So Jew York bankers/Wall Street and Jews like Max Keiser haven't been a big factor in pushing the price as high as they have been. It's all the regular Joe's, small players that have driven prices up?
.........

[Ares]

http://usawatchdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/bagdad_bob_large3.gif
Ares the Bitcoin miner


So why do I logically agree with EE and just happen to notice that you are here still selling us on Bitcoin AFTER $500,000,000 went "missing"?




:rolleyes: how's that Bitcoin mining operation going today?


Not selling anything, just don't like seeing misplaced blame. You guys can put all your eggs in one basket. No harm in that. I just chose to diversify. A couple of us thought it was a great opportunity and decided to inform our friends here at GSUS.. Take the advice, or don't. The decision has always been up to you.

[Horn]

You guys can put all your eggs in one basket. No harm in that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gFL7FBe_PA

Next we can start debating the differences between Gold and Silver...

[Ares]

.........

Have fun playing in government money. I hope it works out for ya.

[Horn]

Have fun playing in government money. I hope it works out for ya.

You know we luv u Ares, don't take it so personally.

Did they grant you rights to secure the forum server.

[Ares]

You know we luv u Ares, don't take it so personally.

Did they grant you rights to secure the forum server.

Nope never heard anything.

[Horn]

Besides the inevitable economy of nothingness, my second greatest concern with any Crypto-currency is their future regulation and that of the internet they belong to.

Seems the wisest thing to do is keep them completely off the radar until such time as they have a economic foothold in reality with which to compete against regulators mono y mono.

[Ares]

Besides the inevitable economy of nothingness, my second greatest concern with any Crypto-currency is their future regulation and that of the internet they belong to.

Seems the wisest thing to do is keep them completely off the radar until such time as they have a economic foothold in reality with which to compete against regulators mono y mono.

Also a concern of mine. Name coin alleviates some of the issues, as it's like an Open Source DNS service. So shutting down Root DNS servers will not affect Bitcoins or crypto's in general.

But DDOS (Distributed Denial Of Service) can affect the network as we saw last week with Mt.Gox BTC-e, and a couple other exchanges. They also hit Mining pools. But it doesn't effect the network at large, as there are way too many nodes for them to target. I think as the technology matures, it will either offer something amazing in turns of local, regional, international commerce. Or it will crash and burn into the dust bin of history to be forgotten.

[EE_]

Yes, you shouldn't take it personally. I'm not against you at all, I just don't want to see a future where crypto's are the governments new currency, completely regulated and with them being able to tax every transaction unabated.

I don't like cryptos and have to state my case as such. In my mind I see a future where government will control everything...almost there now. I don't want cash gone. It may not be without corruption, but it is still anonymous and I can hold it not needing a computer to access it.

You like crypto's and maybe you want a cashless society, but you can't seem to see future technology advancing to a point where nothing done on-line will be anonymous.
You state the pro side of the discussion.

Like I said a while back, if we all liked crypto's, you'd know we were suckers about to be taken to the cleaners.

[Horn]

You like crypto's and maybe you want a cashless society, but you can't seem to see future technology advancing to a point where nothing done on-line will be anonymous.

All that is required is a stroke of a pen to commit which brand name is considered "legal tender", all transactions upon it will require complete openness.

Anything outside of that will be considered speculation and the required conversion tax applied.

[Ponce]

Like I said more than once......."In the future everyone will have a "debit-credit-card" where all that you earn will go there and all that you spend will come from there"......."for your convenience" they will take your taxes from your account...and... any money that they want to borrow............at the end you will not have any money on your account but only the dots and dashes that will represent what you have there..................your account will be the private bitcoin of the government for your labor.

Start keeping all the loose change that you can.....you will thank me later on.

V

[Jewboo]

A couple of us thought it was a great opportunity and decided to inform our friends here at GSUS.. Take the advice, or don't.




http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/2013/08/14/daffy_tap.gif
DON'T. MENTION. MISSING. $500,000,000 BITCOINS.

[EE_]

Like I said more than once......."In the future everyone will have a "debit-credit-card" where all that you earn will go there and all that you spend will come from there"......."for your convenience" they will take your taxes from your account...and... any money that they want to borrow............at the end you will not have any money on your account but only the dots and dashes that will represent what you have there..................your account will be the private bitcoin of the government for your labor.

Start keeping all the loose change that you can.....you will thank me later on.

V

And that's the reason to hang onto cash as long as possible.
Most people don't know what they have until it's gone.

[Horn]

And that's the reason to hang onto cash as long as possible.
Most people don't know what they have until it's gone.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What it boils down to is us vs. them.

Don't end up at the bottom of the pyramid, wrong side of the law, or outside your own borders... just the way they like it.

[madfranks]

http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/2013/08/14/daffy_tap.gif
DON'T. MENTION. MISSING. $500,000,000 BITCOINS.



What about the missing gold at Ft. Knox? Should we abandon gold because someone stole a bunch of it?

[madfranks]

And the OP video should be "Mt. Gox's biggest lesson". I'm still confused why so many people can't distinguish between the currency itself and independent companies that deal in it.

[Ponce]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

What it boils down to is us vs. them.

Don't end up at the bottom of the pyramid, wrong side of the law, or outside your own borders... just the way they like it.

It is not us against them but rather us against our self...... the same way that I have gotten ready in as many ways as I can think off so can you and everyone else.....don't blame others for what WE allowed them to do against us........after all, we are the real government.

V

[Horn]

It is not us against them but rather us against our self...... the same way that I have gotten ready in as many ways as I can think off so can you and everyone else.....don't blame others for what WE allowed them to do against us........after all, we are the real government.

V

Isn't hoarding large amounts of $ legal tender under your mattress helping them, or yourself?

Or both, yes..

[Horn]

What about the missing gold at Ft. Knox? Should we abandon gold because someone stole a bunch of it?

Yes, go straight towards Silver...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWhInhE6emE

[Ponce]

Horn, like I say......."Get ready for all, and afraid of none"... Ponce

Even if the fiat under my mattress becomes no good, by Fed, paper, it will still be good by the people because there is to much out there and is the only currency that 98.5% of the population knows....... the current coins will become more valuable than the paper...
and once again "Hold a $100.00 dollar bill in your left hand a brick of nickels in your right hand...tell me, the one that feels like it has more value is?"

V

[chad]

bitcoin is awesome. all of the bad stuff is because of something stupid somebody else's brother's girlfriend's second cousin did. if it wasn't for somebody else's brother's girlfriend's second cousin, everyone would adopt it and then it would be REALLY AWESOME.

[Libertytree]

Yes, you shouldn't take it personally. I'm not against you at all, I just don't want to see a future where crypto's are the governments new currency, completely regulated and with them being able to tax every transaction unabated.

I don't like cryptos and have to state my case as such. In my mind I see a future where government will control everything...almost there now. I don't want cash gone. It may not be without corruption, but it is still anonymous and I can hold it not needing a computer to access it.

You like crypto's and maybe you want a cashless society, but you can't seem to see future technology advancing to a point where nothing done on-line will be anonymous.
You state the pro side of the discussion.

Like I said a while back, if we all liked crypto's, you'd know we were suckers about to be taken to the cleaners.

These are exactly my sentiments! I've watched it unfold and have paid attention to it all but I just can't get onboard with it.

[singular_me]

either he ruined many people and did it really or he knew too much about the japanse bitcoin theft/evaporation

--------------------------

28-year old CEO of Bitcoin Exchange killed self

http://au.christiantoday.com/article/bitcoin-exchange-website-first-meta-ceo-reported-committing-suicide-at-28/16928.htm

(beforeitsnews)
Two more members of the international financial world have recently met their untimely and very young deaths. Both 28-year old CEO of Bitcoin Exchange First Meta Autumn Radke and the coder behind both Namecoin and Huntercoin, Mikhail Sindeyev, have recently passed away due to what are being called a ‘suicide’ and a stroke for the 27-year old Sindeyev. Are these deaths tied in to the 20+ other banker deaths and suicides reported in the news in recent weeks? Following the collapse of Bitcoin in recent days, these deaths following the collapse of the virtual currency seem to be tied together hand in hand with other events we’ve watched unfolding across the financial world in recent times. More below including a newly released video report on these deaths from Susan Duclos.

http://beforeitsnews.com/economy/2014/03/2-more-mysterious-deaths-in-the-financial-world-2600662.html