Just for a frigging hoot!

[Dogman]

Grin!

Why do gas engines last longer now than back in the day. 1960's I understand some or most were not even a gleam in theirs fathers eye.

Lmfao..

But for real, better oil? Materials?

It used to be in my early days that an gas burner will only last for abt 100k , then it needed to be rebuilt or replaced.

How many here have bought a short block or long?

Tighter tolerances??


I just wonder. think I know why but other views are always welcome.

[Ponce]

Well, maybe because most of them are made in Japan?......mine lasted for 23 years and never touch it....till my accident, engine still running like new but the body was not Ponce proof.

V

[Dogman]

Well, maybe because most of them are made in Japan?......mine lasted for 23 years and never touch it....till my accident, engine still running like new but the body was not Ponce proof.

V

Friend, not sure, but there is something! I at once thought tighter tolerances, then better alloys, then better formulation of the oil.

I really do not know, tho you are like me that most of these kids here do not have a clue..

Maybe all of what I posted, but for sure , once up onto a time a gas engine would only last maybe 100,000 miles if lucky. now it is normal with proper maintenance to to better than twice of that mileage. and or better.

With proper maintenance. (oil changes , filters etc_)

[monty]

They have developed better lubricants, and better filters too. Also,gear ratios let engines run 2000 RPMS at 70 MPH instead of 3000 like they did in the 1960's. Engines turn fewer revolutions to travel 100,000 miles and have better lubricants and filtration. These two things alone will double the life of an engine. Better materials will even extend the life further.

Edit: My made in the USA Harley-Davidson went 187,000 miles without an overhaul. In the 1950's 50,000 miles was un heard of.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[Dogman]

They have developed better lubricants, and better filters too. Also,gear ratios let engines run 2000 RPMS at 70 MPH instead of 3000 like they did in the 1960's. Engines turn fewer revolutions to travel 100,000 miles and have better lubricants and filtration. These two things alone will double the life of an engine. Better materials will even extend the life further.

Edit: My made in the USA Harley-Davidson went 187,000 miles without an overhaul. In the 1950's 50,000 miles was un heard of.

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
Most harleys the top end needed to be done again abt 15 or so k.. IN my day.

Lub may be the answer and filters as you say.

I just know something changed between the 60's or earlyer and now..

Hell tires in the day only lasted maybe if lucky 10.000 miles

Methinks you and ponce have me beat as being petrified..

Carry on...

[Dogman]

Most harleys the top end needed to be done again abt 15 or so k.. IN my day.

Lub may be the answer and filters as you say.

I just know something changed between the 60's or earlyer and now..

Hell tires in the day only lasted maybe if lucky 10.000 miles

Methinks you and ponce have me beat as being petrified..

Carry on...

As it stands we are the old farts in intraingraining on this forum. The count is three as it stands and I am the younger of our bunch.

Had 5 Harley's in my life Pan/knuckles and shovel heads, all had their faults and for any true grease monky something to love. before the evolution engine, sad t say never had the pleasure of any evolution or later.

Still think it is a mix of better lub, maching, materials, and a huge dose of magic...


Hehe,, discount the magic.. but it does sound good...

[Horn]

Fuel injection did wonders, before that you were lean or rich.

Which made nasty bangs in there.

Nowadays its even more strict with the proper O2 mixed thoroughly.

[Dogman]

Fuel injection did wonders, before that you were lean or rich.

Which made nasty bangs in there.

Nowadays its even more strict with the proper O2 mixed thoroughly.That could be part of it, but for sure not all of it..

why did the japs have engines that went over 200 k + miles when ours were maybe good for 100k...or less?

[Horn]

They like to rub the finishes for longer, americans like to 'get'er dun'.

[Dogman]

They like to rub the finishes for longer, americans like to 'get'er dun'. u u, hell horn, you are cracked. which in my mind is a good thing..

Lol!

[Neuro]

The engines are quieter, which means they are better balanced and runs with less friction= less wear...

[Dogman]

The engines are quieter, which means they are better balanced and runs with less friction= less wear...

muffler
You have outed ourself, you are not a mechanic, quiter means just better sound dampening..>..muffler..

I am talking of the blood and guts of the engines then vs now..


seems u may know where to put the gas and oil, and tires need air..

No disrespect..

My op question is valid.

[Hillbilly]

Holly shit you guys are all wrong. Engines used to last longer than they do now, American ones anyway because of better oil. the oil now has been ruined by the tree huggers just like taking the lead out of gas. Diesels last so long because their oil is exempt. Jap engines last because they are all aluminum and don't need the increased lubrication of the old oil that american engines did. I've seen tones of usa engines go more than 250k look at the dodge slant six, the ford inline 6.9 the chevy 292 Prior to the shit made in the 70's american engines were great!

[Dogman]

Holly shit you guys are all wrong. Engines used to last longer than they do now, American ones anyway because of better oil. the oil now has been ruined by the tree huggers just like taking the lead out of gas. Diesels last so long because their oil is exempt. Jap engines last because they are all aluminum and don't need the increased lubrication of the old oil that american engines did. I've seen tones of usa engines go more than 250k look at the dodge slant six, the ford inline 6.9 the chevy 292 Prior to the shit made in the 70's american engines were great! In the 60's gas engines were good for 70.000 or so if lucky will see over 100,000 miles going by the engines that were pulled and rebuilt..there is a distent difference between the early jap/german and for me the jury is sitll out who make the best..

diesel is a a nother matter.. I owned a gto, cogar, and chevys, and thank god , never a ford!!!!!

[Neuro]

muffler
You have outed ourself, you are not a mechanic, quiter means just better sound dampening..>..muffler..

I am talking of the blood and guts of the engines then vs now..


seems u may know where to put the gas and oil, and tires need air..

No disrespect..

My op question is valid.
I guess my mechanical engineer degree was all in vain then....

Oh well...

tell me oh wise one, how the silencers of today are better?

[Dogman]

I guess my mechanical engineer degree was all in vain then....

Oh well...

tell me oh wise one, how the silencers of today are better?Dude, I am not saying anything like that , and I did not try to come across as all konwing, but ..If u are a mechanical engender, why are you doing mishmash. or body toning>? I am not wise, but in my life I sure have stepped int a huge bunch of dog/cow piles...

You are ?

Nero, u remind me of my cat playing with a mouse by the posts you have been making..

I am not all knowing, in many ways I am dumb as a brick, but in my rainge of experiance I do know a thing or too.

Anyhoo,,,

Late, and this kind of crap is really not worh my time, more reasons to go to the river and play with the fish..

[Horn]

That dodge slant 6 was a good model, my buddy drove one of those for like 1000 miles with no oil at all.

Computer cutting did alot for machined parts also, the machines that cut the parts could recalibrate more efficiently and frequently after computers arrived on the scene. My stepfather was a lathe operator machinist with Delroyd for much of his life, who told me once most digits got lost during recalibration.

He still had 8-1/2 fingers last I knew him.

[Neuro]

Dude, I am not saying anything like that , and I did not try to come across as all konwing, but ..If u are a mechanical engender, why are you doing mishmash. or body toning>? I am not wise, but in my life I sure have stepped int a huge bunch of dog/cow piles...

You are ?

Nero, u remind me of my cat playing with a mouse by the posts you have been making..

I am not all knowing, in many ways I am dumb as a brick, but in my rainge of experiance I do know a thing or too.

Anyhoo,,,

Late, and this kind of crap is really not worh my time, more reasons to go to the river and play with the fish..
I had a degree in mechanical engineering and one in marketing economics, prior to my chiropractic master of science degree, which I consider mostly as biomechanical engineering, but you may be correct in it being better described as mish-mash body toning, I like the term spinal tuning actually. Anyway cars and bodies that run better balanced with less friction and resistances, run with less symptoms, and run longer. Most people take very good care of their cars compared to how they maintain their body balance. Taking drugs to reduce pain is equivalent to drinking a bottle of Whiskey prior to driving your car, so that you are not bothered by the sounds and vibrations of the unbalanced wheel...

[Dogman]

I had a degree in mechanical engineering and one in marketing economics, prior to my chiropractic master of science degree, which I consider mostly as biomechanical engineering, but you may be correct in it being better described as mish-mash body toning, I like the term spinal tuning actually. Anyway cars and bodies that run better balanced with less friction and resistances, run with less symptoms, and run longer. Most people take very good care of their cars compared to how they maintain their body balance. Taking drugs to reduce pain is equivalent to drinking a bottle of Whiskey prior to driving your car, so that you are not bothered by the sounds and vibrations of the unbalanced wheel...

I do agree in many ways, been fun. But on y side a very long day, hehe.
Do you sleep ? As most in my time zone think most over the pound (the one east of here). Are socialist nutzoid
But fear not you guys are safe,

The one to worry abt is that huge mother on,the east of you!

I used to worry about them,band for good reasons! And still do!
But Now I worry more abt the dragon to my West.

Unlike you. Snooze time

Night may you have a good one!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

[Cebu_4_2]

3 things, balance, lubrication and the big one... overdrive.

Back in time the only engines truely balanced were race engines and that was by choice. I have weighed parts like pistons and rods and they were way off. They would batch them in sets that were close, but not real close. Think about it, 3 grams here 5 grams there all mixed together with 6 more varients all spinning together at 2000-4000 rpm all the time. Yeah you'll get some wear.

Lubrication, I used to go to the airport to get synthetic oil. It was not common knowledge or even available to the general public. The stuff that was available varied in quality but the stuff for airplanes was more refined and was good stuff. Never blew an engine on synthetic oil.

Overdrive... what more can be said.

[palani]

The answer is .... STP. No. Not Standard Temperature and Pressure. That thick syrup you used to add to the engine oil when the rings started passing oil or when a lifter seal starts leaking and oil starts making exhaust black. Stuff caused more damage than it cured.

[Glass]

3 things, balance, lubrication and the big one... overdrive.

Back in time the only engines truely balanced were race engines and that was by choice. I have weighed parts like pistons and rods and they were way off. They would batch them in sets that were close, but not real close. Think about it, 3 grams here 5 grams there all mixed together with 6 more varients all spinning together at 2000-4000 rpm all the time. Yeah you'll get some wear.

Lubrication, I used to go to the airport to get synthetic oil. It was not common knowledge or even available to the general public. The stuff that was available varied in quality but the stuff for airplanes was more refined and was good stuff. Never blew an engine on synthetic oil.

Overdrive... what more can be said.

I remember watching some tv show with guys who would match and balance pistsons, rods, then adjust cam profiles. They would weigh up each set of parts and if they varied too much they would go back to supplier as a lot. They would balance everything, adding weight if needed, shave or add to the pistons, rods etc until everything was right on the money.

any way was just like you say. Did you race or build race engines?

[Cebu_4_2]

any way was just like you say. Did you race or build race engines?

Used to do some car stuff. Rebuilt/modified everything that could be taken apart, engines, transmissions, rear ends etc. I used to setup timing curves in distributors back when we had them, degree camshafts. Still do but on a smaller scale now, no real garage limits me. One time I bought a brand new dominator 1150, thousand dollar carb, employee comes into the office and says WTF? Carb was completely apart soon as I opened the box LOL.

[Tumbleweed]

I have a couple of friends that retired from GM and remember hearing them talk about this. I believe their conclusion was that heat was the enemy of long engine life. A good cooling system, good air flow to the engine and proper mixture of fuel would keep the cylinder walls better lubricated. Heat causes the oil to break down sooner and when it does the wear speeds up.

[Dogman]

Humm, multi carb setups iirc were bitches to setup, then there was that bastard that had a dual point ignition system, was one of the so called super car of the day,(1960's-1969 or so) can not remember just yet, holy bitch to setup, but when everything was setup right, they ran like a bat from hell. Think the same car iirc when you needed to change the plugs, which you had to if you dogged it, less than every 1000 miles, you had to jack it up and take off the tires to get to the plugs. I am drawing a blank trying to remember, there was only one car that was like that in my town growing up, gtx? or something like that. Them were some fun days, then the epa started screwing things up big time with the emission systems. That was when one could be a shade tree mechanic, unlike today..

[palani]

Metal on metal don't expect long life. Things tend to deteriorate. Guy I knew bought a model T in running condition. It ran for a couple hours and then started to knock. He tore the engine down and found the main bearings had been wrapped in leather.

I have worked on crankshafts that rather than have a flat bearing profile have a 106 millionth of an inch dip to hold oil film on the journals. You won't be able to measure this profile with a conventional mike.

[Dogman]

My grandfather, had story's of rebuilding those old engines, melting and poring Babbitt bearings, still have some of the material and tools used to do it.

Always wanted to do/try it, but never had the opportunity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_%28metal%29

[Dogman]

That dodge slant 6 was a good model, my buddy drove one of those for like 1000 miles with no oil at all.

Computer cutting did alot for machined parts also, the machines that cut the parts could recalibrate more efficiently and frequently after computers arrived on the scene. My stepfather was a lathe operator machinist with Delroyd for much of his life, who told me once most digits got lost during recalibration.

He still had 8-1/2 fingers last I knew him.

The old slant 6's were a wonder, and had horsepower potential out of the yin yang, that was amazing, back in the day here there were two strips (Hallsvile and Winona) That every weekend we would play. Very good times back then.


Edit: Horn, the machining I think is one of the answers to my original question. There are tighter tolerances and the formulation of oil today is part of it. Materials ? maybe not so much but do and are in play.

Understand abt the fingers, used to play and make parts at a paper converting plant, all the machines were german, and to have parts when something broke or wore out ,shipped and oem parts hurt, $$ so I had a in house machine shop to make them, couple of lathes, milling machine, shaper, surface grinder amongst other toys. It helped that when I was a kid, (teen) I was taught and worked at a local machine shop. There was the old man and myself.

He had some digits missing also...

[mick silver]

break in oils was never heard of back in the day .

[Dogman]

break in oils was never heard of back in the day .Hell, I am amazed that mazda says the oil is good for 5000 or so miles from the day you drive it off the lot. They are bugging me abut changing it because it is close to a year since I drove mine off the lot, have abt 2300 miles on it to date! Grin.


What floored me big time was the rep that I talked to last week, said that their Volkswagens are good to go for 10,000 or so miles before the first oil change! Something there goes sideways to this old mechanic... I will change the oil and filter soon, I hold that it is better to change the oil every couple of thousand miles or so, synthetic oil is a wonder, but microscopic metal particles that is in any engine oil, along with the natural tendency to form sludge is never good. Better to play safe and change it than not, 5000 or 10,000 miles before the first oil change...? Hell as most here know we had to change the oil on any rebuilt or new engine at least withing the first hundred miles or so, and iirc every 1000 or so after including the filter. And you back then were lucky to make it past 100,000 miles with any gas engine, before rebuild or replace.

[Cebu_4_2]

Think the same car iirc when you needed to change the plugs, which you had to if you dogged it, less than every 1000 miles, you had to jack it up and take off the tires to get to the plugs. I am drawing a blank trying to remember, there was only one car that was like that in my town growing up, gtx?

There were a few vehicles you had to change plugs through the wheel wells. I remember the AMX Gremlin with the ford 401 engine you had to raise the engine to change the plugs.

[Dogman]

There were a few vehicles you had to change plugs through the wheel wells. I remember the AMX Gremlin with the ford 401 engine you had to raise the engine to change the plugs.Yep, thank you, dem were the good old days..before unleaded gas and high compression levels were very good.

Edit: It is amazing how things are now, can squeeze more horsepower from the cubic inch than could be done in the past. or maybe not.

Think the dual point ignition car was called a gtx... that sonofabitch was a pain to tune, but when it was right it roared.

AMX? Know when everything was dialed in on that dam beast it would school everything on/with wheels here back in the day.

[Cebu_4_2]

Metal on metal don't expect long life.

In a running engine there is no metal to metal contact unless you have shitty or broken down oil. I once had to move my 1st ex's truck to my house, broke down 35 miles away on the freeway. Had a cracked head and wouldn't hold water more than a few minutes. Drove that thing all the way with no problems. The heat was so bad that once I parked it everything melted and burned on the engine, even the starter fried. Replaced all the burned stuff, the heads and it ran perfect. Never even then changed the oil. Ended up selling it for her.

Moral of this story ~ Synthetic oil. The oil that was in the truck had close to 40K miles, I no longer did maintenance for the bitch since we were divorced. Back then it was Mobil 1 which I dont use since it is not 100% synthetic anymore.

[palani]

Back then it was Mobil 1 which I dont use since it is not 100% synthetic anymore.
They say it is. Isn't that what 'full synthetic' means? I use the high mileage stuff that is supposed to help seals out.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1.aspx

[palani]

Once upon a time I had a 150 mile one way commute to work. Fifty miles into it with an Olds quad-4 running synthetic and I blew a head gasket. Sat along the side of the interstate for 5 minutes to let it cool down then decided that wouldn't make my customer happy so took off again. Filled the radiator twice and finally did the last 30 miles just running it at 70 mph without stopping for water.

Got to work. Couldn't find a rental car. Couldn't get a mechanic to look at it so ran it back 150 miles that night. Next day was a weekend so called a junk yard and found an engine. Drove it 45 miles to the junk yard where they changed it out. The old engine had 150,000 miles so didn't figure I was losing much if it did blow up.

That was running mobile 1. I have used this oil for 30 years. Had a runoff of a crank balancing machine spinning a 300 lb crank in open bearings. The manufacturer in the runoff had to put a drop of regular motor oil on each bearing before each spin. The weight of that oil migrating to the counterbalance was enough to cause the machine to fail the test. They switched to mobile 1 and they could spin the crank 20-30 times without relubing and as a result they got good repeatability.

[Cebu_4_2]

It is amazing how things are now, can squeeze more horsepower from the cubic inch than could be done in the past. or maybe not.

They put more displacement into small engines, think small block 427.
The generation IV LS series engines are quite versatile. A friends son put that and a 6 speed into his Bimmer, pretty quick.

[SWRichmond]

Back in the day 100,000 miles was a huge deal for a car. I rebuilt a Ford V8 in the mid 70's after 125,000 mostly highway miles and the mechanic who did the engine shop work (boil the block, polish the crank, replace cam bearings, furnish rings and main bearings, grind and replace valves) had this comment when I picked up the parts when he was done:

Him: "How many miles you got on this?"

Me: "about 125,000"

Him: "You change your oil a lot, don't you?"

And it was true, I did change it a lot.

Anything that reduces wear and strain / cycling stress:

Design - designs are modified to reduce strain and cyclic stress, and to reinforce areas where these are known to occur; more attention is paid, and better corrections can be made due to computer modeling, to internal oil distribution, fuel/air mixture distribution, etc. Lower HP engines mean lower stresses.

Materials - better materials last longer, resist corrosion, resist cycling stress and wear.

Manufacturing - components are built to MUCH closer tolerances due to greatly enhanced manufacturing techniques; this reduces stress and wear caused by ill-mated rotating parts, cycling stress caused by out-of-balance rotating and cycling parts, etc. Engines are quieter in part because they are smaller, better balanced, and more fuel-efficient.

Lubrication

[Dogman]

Think the synthetic oils today make a huge diff. Tho I am and has been slow accepting it. Thank you all for your testimony's in this thread.

Fun and in some ways enlightening.

What I drive now, which is only the second "New" car I have ever owned , is the first that will run synthetic from the git go and onwards.

[palani]

the first that will run synthetic from the git go and onwards.

Bad idea. Let the rings break in first ... say 10,000 miles.... with conventional oil.

[Cebu_4_2]

They say it is. Isn't that what 'full synthetic' means? I use the high mileage stuff that is supposed to help seals out.


Full Synthetic means nothing. M1 sued Valvoline for calling their version full synthetic when it wasn't. M1 lost and now anyone can call their oil full synthetic. I mainly run Rotella and Walmarts Super Tech for lesser need applications such as the Honda, lawnmower, generator etc. Another main ingredient for long life is a good oil filter like WIX.

[Dogman]

Bad idea. Let the rings break in first ... say 10,000 miles.... with conventional oil. Running what Mazda says to run and what was in it when I drove it off the lot.

The old school me agrees with you and I questioned them about oil and stuff. But who am I to argue with them, tho they would never know if I used anything diff, unless they do an oil analysis. But they rep the manufacturer so I will bide by what they recommend at least as long as it is under warranty.

[palani]

Another main ingredient for long life is a good oil filter like WIX.

The Continental 0-145 in my Cessna 170b didn't have an oil filter. It had a screen instead. I presume Cessna desired to extend the pilots life by not relying on a plugged filter.

[Cebu_4_2]

Bad idea. Let the rings break in first ... say 10,000 miles.... with conventional oil.

ABSOLUTELY! One engine I tore down still had the cross hatch going on after 80K, until then I could not figure why it burned oil. I did not break it in long enough before synthetic. It was a coarse hatch pattern from a machine shop that wouldn't do what I wanted. I wanted a 600 finish and what they did could have been a 200. I should have finish honed it myself...


Running what Mazda says to run and what was in it when I drove it off the lot.
Refer to my above comment, the new refined engines are honed very fine with different type rings and do not need to break in. The camshafts are refined perfectly also and can start with synthetic. I have no idea about Mazda but BMW is synthetic from the get go.

[Dogman]

There is a very good chance that the oil in my car is what could be called break in oil, have not a clue to date. I assume since the oil in it was from the factory they do have a clue. Recommended is a synthetic for all other changes along with filters.

On the plane, yep, screens, do not trust a possible plugged filter or the built in bypass that some have. Then you have the mandatory scheduled rebuilds after so many flight hours. I do like the dual plugs and dual shielded ignition systems tho.

Edit: have story's abt magnetos. Have any electronic ignitions systems been approved by the faa ?

I am way out of touch been years,everything I flew had mags.

[Horn]

all the machines were german,

Used to work for K-tron/Soder back in the 90's as a project engineer, they produced these electric driven screw feeders for material handling. Tight tolerance were needed because the electric drives would become very inefficient in the short run if slightly out.

The only place they were able to get an aluminum cast gearbox for later machining to hold tolerances enough in the entire world was Germany. Any other place they went to couldn't hold the cast tolerances tight enough.

[Dogman]

Used to work for K-tron/Soder back in the 90's as a project engineer, they produced these electric driven screw feeders for material handling. Tight tolerance were needed because the electric drives would become very inefficient in the short run if slightly out.

The only place they were able to get an aluminum cast gearbox for later machining to hold tolerances enough in the entire world was Germany. Any other place they went to couldn't hold the cast tolerances tight enough.I can say when Germans build and design a machine dam near nothing else in the world can match it.. They overengeneer everything to the point of being dam near bullet proof, said with tongue in cheek. But true at least with the ones i worked on here back when.

But you will pay out of the ass for replacement parts for that same machine.

[Neuro]

I can say when Germans build and design a machine dam near nothing else in the world can match it.. They overengeneer everything to the point of being dam near bullet proof, said with tongue in cheek. But true at least with the ones i worked on here back when.

But you will pay out of the ass for replacement parts for that same machine.
Overengineered, it sounds like something someone who is either to stupid or too lazy or probably both to make a well-engineered product would say...

[Horn]

Thing about the Germans is, where you and me need to do a job a couple times repetitively to get to a point where we can start cranking out quality efficient and fast, the Germans are somehow able to skip that upfront step and come out there on the first try.

There are many Germans here I associate with, if you saw their construction sites you would be impressed. Everything exactly where it should be naturally. One guy I deal to was starting to pour about 30m3 of concrete in a pool at 2pm. I said you're nuts, I would be there at 6am starting things, what if something goes wrong? And you are stuck out there all night.

Nothing went wrong, because he made sure and was positive nothing could go wrong, he was finished pouring with pump in 3 hours.

[Dogman]

Overengineered, it sounds like something someone who is either to stupid or too lazy or probably both to make a well-engineered product would say... Maybe a bad choice of words, but the machine I am thinking about you wold have to see to understand, It was a spiral notebook machine. It would place the back count the sheets place the front and collate everthing, punch the holes, coil the wire thru the holes, cut crimp both ends. All driven by cams the only electronics was the page counter. That dam thing was a beast. Hell the access covers were almost 1/4 of an inch thick and took at least ten, hex screws to remove anyone of those plates.

Then we had the rewinders, and filler notebook machines.. Good machines, but a nightmare to repair or get their timing right sometimes.

[Horn]

Good machines, but a nightmare to repair or get their timing right sometimes.

Knowing the Germans there was probably a way to access everything by turning it at an angle and removing only one larger screw. You just would never guess in a million years that screw was anywhere near where you are working. :)

[Cebu_4_2]

Knowing the Germans there was probably a way to access everything by turning it at an angle and removing only one larger screw. You just would never guess in a million years that screw was anywhere near where you are working. :)

Like my first BMW, I bought it to flip it because I knew I couldn't afford to have anything fixed if it broke. Found a forum and did some research, sure they are complicated but after I figured things out it's easier to work on than a 68 Camaro. They think differently than they do in the USi.

[Horn]

They think differently than they do in the USi.

Right I think it was you who also said mechanically they are genius, but electrically they tend to extremely hairy brained. :)

[palani]

mechanically they are genius, but electrically they tend to extremely hairy brained. :)
http://i61.tinypic.com/20apfdi.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

Right I think it was you who also said mechanically they are genius, but electrically they tend to extremely hairy brained. :)

Yes in the electronic department you really need to have the understanding of what I would call a genius. My Bimmers are early '90s and have as many options as brand new hi tech US vehicles. Just about everything is controlled by computer or goes through computers. There are wires that run along the trunk hinge and they wear. Once they do you will have many different anomalies that can't be explained. I couldnt imagine what the new BMWs are all about.

[palani]

http://i57.tinypic.com/245y1z6.jpg

[palani]

http://i60.tinypic.com/n2h8c9.jpg

[Horn]

Italian's approach to mechanics is much the same as palani's to law.

They are the only ones who practice it. lol!

[Cebu_4_2]

http://i60.tinypic.com/n2h8c9.jpg

Holy crap!

[palani]

...the same as palani's to law

I don't expect aliens to agree with me on points of the law. You don't expect Brownies to follow the Boy Scout code do you?

[Neuro]

Maybe a bad choice of words, but the machine I am thinking about you wold have to see to understand, It was a spiral notebook machine. It would place the back count the sheets place the front and collate everthing, punch the holes, coil the wire thru the holes, cut crimp both ends. All driven by cams the only electronics was the page counter. That dam thing was a beast. Hell the access covers were almost 1/4 of an inch thick and took at least ten, hex screws to remove anyone of those plates.

Then we had the rewinders, and filler notebook machines.. Good machines, but a nightmare to repair or get their timing right sometimes.
It reminds me of my final year project when I studied mechanical engineering. Me and my classmate were assigned this project at a local small company to construct a lathe that was cam-controlled, for the purpose of manufacturing the upper arch of a rifle mount holding the optical sight. The owner already manufactured these mount-parts in a CAM-machine, but he felt that the hourly cost of his machine was too high, mostly because the machine was incredibly expensive, so he wanted a cam-guided lathe to do it cheaper, further the cam needed to be adjustable to compensate for the wear of the tool-bit. We constructed the machine, but mid-work I figured it would never work, because the lathe would need to move in a way that defied physical laws, the way we had constructed it, fortunately our teacher and the owner of the company were idiots, so they never figured it out. After the project the guy hired me to do auto-CAD drawing, while I was studying marketing and economics, and I tried to explain to him that the machine never could work, because the lathe was required to go backwards while the screw feed pushed it forward, but he wouldn't have any of it, stating with certainty the momentum of the motion would push it over the ridge... LOL He still wanted to have it built, fortunately he was too busy with other projects and work to do it.

This was 26-27 years ago. I think the version of Auto-CAD we had at the time was 2.10, extremely difficult and arduous to make drawings with it, much easier to do a normal analog paper drawing, but it was the FUTURE!

[palani]

More Italian stuff

http://i57.tinypic.com/2narbm9.jpg

[Horn]

More Italian stuff

http://i57.tinypic.com/2narbm9.jpg

Good thing most Italians are short and bald.

[Neuro]

http://i61.tinypic.com/20apfdi.jpg
That's an aero plane engine isn't it?

[palani]

because the lathe would need to move in a way that defied physical laws

Ball screws are inherently either inaccurate or very expensive. So many MT builders opt for the cheap ones and build a lookup table to compensate for the linear inaccuracy. Sundstrand decided to do it differently. A resolver was directly attached to the screw but then they had a cam that rotated in a geared down fashion that would act on the body of the resolver. The cam was cut to compensate for the ball screw inaccuracy. So at the factory they would laser the axis, cut the cam, set it up and away it would go.

The only problem was they never ever told anyone how to line up the start point of the cam so the first time the gadget was disassembled it was nowhere near as accurate as at the factory. Fortunately with CNCs repeatability is more important than accuracy.

[palani]

That's an aero plane engine isn't it?

Most likely.

Shame they didn't put in one of those rotary engines where the block rotates and the crank stay stationary. That would be wild to overcome the gyroscopic effects on a turn.

[EE_]

Been using Mobil 1 in everything since the 90's, Mobil 1 V-Twin 20/50w in the Harley. Heat kills dyno oil, is one big reason. Engines today have much tighter tolerances, hence the use of light viscosity oil.

Bought a 97 Beemer 328I conv. years ago for the OL. It was a dream to maintain. Suspension, engine, brakes etc. were a pleasure to work on. Would have probably still had it, if it didn't get wrecked.
Replaced it for her with an 04 Mercedes 320CLK conv. Also nice to work on, but parts were/are expensive and a lot of unnessary electronics to break. Wonderful car, but sold it before it started eating my wallet.
GM cars all the rest of my life before that. Always do my own wrenching.

[palani]

http://i59.tinypic.com/24605n7.jpg

[Neuro]

http://i59.tinypic.com/24605n7.jpg
LOL What's the mileage of that?

[Neuro]

Most likely.

Shame they didn't put in one of those rotary engines where the block rotates and the crank stay stationary. That would be wild to overcome the gyroscopic effects on a turn.
Be careful where you put your feet too! ;D

[Horn]

http://i59.tinypic.com/24605n7.jpg

Forward thinking with the towbar already built-in.

[Cebu_4_2]

Bought a 97 Beemer 328I conv. years ago for the OL

Really?

[mick silver]

ford would not change the oil till are car had 10.000 miles on it , ford fusion, the guy told me it had break in oil in it . hell we dont change the oil in it till it got 7500 on it , it tell you when it needs new oil . in my truck i drive almost every day i put one part synthetic to 5 of reg valoline and it never been low on oil and i run it to 5000 before i change it . the oil of today not the oil i used as a 16 year old are my dad time

[monty]

Holly shit you guys are all wrong. Engines used to last longer than they do now, American ones anyway because of better oil. the oil now has been by the tree huggers just like taking the lead out of gas. Diesels last so long because their oil is exempt. Jap engines last because they are all aluminum and don't need the increased lubrication of the old oil that american engines did. I've seen tones of usa engines go more than 250k look at the dodge slant six, the ford inline 6.9 the chevy 292 Prior to the shit made in the 70's american engines were great!

Exactly right, they took the zinc out of oil. You can't run this new oil in old engines with flat tappets or the camshaft will fail. A friend of my brother told him he can't use this new oil in his old aircraft engine without adding a special additive. And Harley-Davidson changed the oil change interval from 5000 miles to 2500 miles when the new oil appeared on the market.

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[woodman]

LOL What's the mileage of that?

No doubt it is measured in gallons per mile instead of miles per gallon. This is a fantastic thread by the way. We need a forum just for mechanix.

[Cebu_4_2]

Exactly right, they took the zinc out of oil. You can't run this new oil in old engines with flat tappets or the camshaft will fail. A friend of my brother told him he can't use this new oil in his old aircraft engine without adding a special additive. And Harley-Davidson changed the oil change interval from 5000 miles to 2500 miles when the new oil appeared on the market.

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Zink is an additive only used during breakin. If your shit fails without then you didnt break it in properly or your shit was made wrong. I believe this as a fact.

[monty]

Zink is an additive only used during breakin. If your shit fails without then you didnt break it in properly or your shit was made wrong. I believe this as a fact.

During my career as an auto mechanic we used non-detergent oil for break in oil. In 1972 I began working as a class 8 diésel truck mechanic and have not kept up with the automobile sector. However I recently read that API-SA oil should be used as a break in oil before switching to synthetic oil..


The question concerns the reduction of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)

Well,,you are making me do more research! ZDDP is an anti-wear additive used in oils prior to API SM oil. Phosporous apparently is the element that protects the flat tappet camshaft.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Flat_Tappets_Collection.aspx


6158

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf

6159

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[Cebu_4_2]

Phosporous


That's it! I knew it wasn't zinc but forgot the anti wear additive after break-in. That M1 site has good information that I did not know. Now I have to go read all of it, lol.

[monty]

I a not a expert in,the field of lubricants, especially ZDDP. But I do know the importance of proper break in from experience in early engines as well as modern engines. I have seen a modern engine switched to Mobile 1 synthetic oil before It was fully broken in. That engine always used oil. The older engines would continue to use oil if not broken in properly too.

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