Florida Makes Off-Grid Living Illegal – Mandates All Homes Must Be Connected To An El

[mick silver]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/09/florida-makes-off-grid-living-illegal-mandates-all-homes-must-be-connected-to-an-electricity-grid/ ... http://cdn3.collective-evolution.com/assets/uploads/2014/03/off-grid-300x219.jpeg It’s no secret that an opposition to sustainable living exists. Earlier this year, Texas state brought several SWAT teams to a sustainable community and threatened to shut it down. Each one of the community members were initially handcuffed at gunpoint. It was called “The Garden of Eden Community,” and was totally self sustainable. You can read more about that here (http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/18/texas-state-tried-to-shut-down-a-sustainable-community/).This time, it’s Robin Speronis that’s come under fire. She lives off the grid in Florida, completely independent of the city’s water and electric system. A few weeks ago, officials ruled her off-grid home illegal. Officials cited the International Property Maintenance Code (http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/ipmc/2012/), which mandates that homes be connected to an electricity grid and a running water source. That’s just like saying our dependency on corporations isn’t even a choice. The battle to live without most utilities has been ongoing for Robin, the self-sufficient woman has lived for more than a year and a half using solar energy, a propane camping stove and rain water.In the end, she was found not guilty of not having a proper sewer or electrical system; but was guilty of not being hooked up to an approved water supply.So what exactly is off grid living?“It means living independently, mainly living independently of the utility companies. Providing your own power. It does not mean living in the stone age, it’s not about bush craft. It’s about generating your own power, your own water, dealing with your own waste. Probably as part of a community, not living on your own like a hermit. It’s also about being more self-reliant and being less dependent on the system. Perhaps realizing that the system isn’t really protecting us anymore and we have to look after ourselves.” - George NooryOur potential as a human race is quite extraordinary, we just don’t realize it. Sustainable living is not about giving up a certain lifestyle, can still have all the modern amenities, design and beyond. Living off the grid wouldn’t be a problem, we have technologies that can generate over-unity power, we have technologies that can provide unlimited amounts of clean energy. I’m talking about free energy (http://www.collective-evolution.com/?s=free+energy), which goes far beyond solar energy. We can have neighborhoods exactly like we do today, even better. They would be totally green, off the grid and self-sufficient.The only problem with off the grid living is that corporations lose their ability to control others. With a completely self-sustaining life style, no body would ever have to work. What would happen then? Think about that for a moment. We would be free to expand and create, to discover our full potential as a race and move forward into the world of exploration and discovery, all the while living in harmony with nature, not against it.We’ve accepted the monetary system, and deem it necessary for the proper function of society. Money doesn’t ever have to come in the way of necessity, we’ve just been made to believe that it does. It’s time for the human race to move past the concepts of competition and greed into one that benefits the whole.“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozled has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan The human race does not need to be dependent on these corporations. While we continue to feed this dependency, the planet continues to suffer. In order to move forward, we must start cooperating with each other, and realize just how much potential we have to create something magical and amazing. Bottom line, anybody who has the desire to live off-grid should not be hassled for it, it should be a free choice.Sources:http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/the-stream/the-stream-officialblog/2014/2/25/florida-court-challengesoffthegridliving.html (http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/the-stream/the-stream-officialblog/2014/2/25/florida-court-challengesoffthegridliving.html)http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/02/22/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/ (http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/02/22/court-rules-off-the-grid-living-is-illegal/)

[palani]

One of your proofs of ID in order to be able to obtain a birth certificate is a utility bill. This little tidbit ties the BC to commercial activities if nothing else exists as evidence of the connection. A home is engaged in commerce when a mortgage is issued. No mortgage will be issued if the house is built as a shelter by the one living there and a good chance is that the electrical and sewage or water will not be connected either. All are signs of commercial activity.

Nation-states have given way to market-states. This is an outcome.

[7th trump]

Not big a deal as you think.
Nowhere in this story does it say you cannot use what you generate and must take down all the solar panels and other means to generate electricity.
You can still live off 100% of what you generate....they just want you hooked up to the grid. And besides if you generate more than enough power than you need they will pay you!!

I generate a majority of my electricity (dc) and I'm still hooked up to the grid....cost roughly 30.00 a month to be hooked up. Beats a 250.00 monthly bill!
I generate my own 60hz signal with one ($8.00...expensive in terms of being a non microcontroller chip) little tiny 8 pin chip http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM440DS.pdf with 3 capacitors and one crystal that I salvaged off electronics that people dispose of on the curb to get picked up.
This chip has a sync pin (pin 5) that when hooked up to the grid syncs with the grids 60hz....being hooked up to the grid to sync with 60hz has many advantages. A simple 22awg (phone) wire wrapped around the hot wire (black wire) inside my breaker panel and tied to pin 5 is all that's needed to sync the chip (my system) to the grid. A simple comparator op amp turns on the green LED indicating sync up.
This way any 120vac inductive appliances (refrigerators, ect.) wont go "BANG" and need the motors replaced because the 60hz grid was not correctly in phase with my 60hz system when power came back on (electronic triacs (breakers) don't reset after the grid goes down) for inductive loads.
When the grid goes down the chip will maintain a reliable 60hz on its own.....you wouldn't even know the grid went down or when it came back on except by the indicator light when my system is drawing a huge amount of current and the batteries are down to a certain percentage.
And when that happens I start up the homemade 200 amp 12vdc alternator (generator) to compensate.

[Ponce]

And ONCE AGAIN..........if you have a Land Patent that law does not apply to you in any way, shape or form.........GET ONE.

V

[hoarder]

You can still live off 100% of what you generate....they just want you hooked up to the grid. And besides if you generate more than enough power than you need they will pay you!!.That's all a matter of policy. The devil is in the details. They might require a 75 dollar monthly fee just to be hooked up and create an economic and procedural obstacle course to selling electricity back to them.

[midnight rambler]

I don't think the reference to the Back to the Garden of Eden community in Arlington was raided last August because they were 'off grid' I'm thinking that they were raided 'cause they were 'different' and would be found growing cannabis. No cannabis was found.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/18/texas-state-tried-to-shut-down-a-sustainable-community/

And on another note at least one poster on this forum cannot hug the Beast enough. lol

[palani]

they just want you hooked up to the grid.

And you see nothing ominous about this?

Why should it matter to the state whether you are hooked up or not?

[7th trump]

I don't think the reference to the Back to the Garden of Eden community in Arlington was raided last August because they were 'off grid' I'm thinking that they were raided 'cause they were 'different' and would be found growing cannabis. No cannabis was found.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/18/texas-state-tried-to-shut-down-a-sustainable-community/

And on another note at least one poster on this forum cannot hug the Beast enough. lol

While I'm just paying roughly 30.00 a month to the power company you are still 100% on the grid............therefore you are hugging the beast 100%.
Who's hugging this "beast" as you call it more?
You or me?
Lets see midnight rambler is paying homage at a rate of 100% to the power company ....my homage is a fraction of what he's paying.
The on top of that I'm taking advantage of the grid to my favor....I don't lose power at all while midnight rambler is subject to possible days without any power and lights.
And when the grid does go down nobodies paying any homage to the power companies anyway....but there I am still with lights and a cool refrigerator....midnight rambler....not so much.

I think its you, midnight rambler, who cant pay enough homage to the beast!
I always find people who accuse others of something are the guilty party...always happens that way.

[7th trump]

That's all a matter of policy. The devil is in the details. They might require a 75 dollar monthly fee just to be hooked up and create an economic and procedural obstacle course to selling electricity back to them.

Sure it's all a matter of policy....biblically speaking we aren't going to get away from it until the return of Christ anyway....so take advantage of it the best you can.
Stay under the radar of corporate thugs walking with lawyers.
God even says we are going to have to endure this system until He destroys it.

Just how much do you want to pay the power company anyway?
1. a full monthly bill-
2. just the monthly hook up service or-
3. let them pay you for generating power back into their system.

On grid doesn't mean you cant use what you generate. If they want you on grid then make efforts to make them pay you by generating more than you use.

[7th trump]

And you see nothing ominous about this?

Why should it matter to the state whether you are hooked up or not?
See post #9 palani

I think its a matter of the corporate (you), as a "US citizen", are nothing but a corporate franchise, living and acting as if you were a sovereign.

Do I need to remind you palani.
"US citizens" and "The People" don't mix either.......you know as well as I do that as "US citizens" international law (treaties, policy, ect.) take legal affect over the US Constitution.

US citizens....are subject to policy and international law.
The People... are governed by themselves and protected by the US Constitution and State Constitutions.

This article is about the state enforcing the.......International Property Maintenance Code.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the lady in Florida is a "US citizens" subject to international policy now does it?

[palani]

I think its a matter of the corporate (you), as a "US citizen", are nothing but a corporate franchise, living and acting as if you were a sovereign. I have no account with the power company.


"US citizens" and "The People" don't mix either.......you know as well as I do that as "US citizens" international law (treaties, policy, ect.) take legal affect over the US Constitution. People don't live in corporations. In any county there are no people. There are only townships, villages and cities. The key to this is to look back at when the county was formed by legislative edict. Did they include any people?



The People... are governed by themselves and protected by the US Constitution and State Constitutions. Any constitution that includes the 14th amendment cancels any such protection. As to the states, if Harry S. Truman can enact federal districts in the name of the several States without the states themselves objecting to this then they no longer choose to exist.

But if you choose an illusion over reality who am I to interfere with your fantasy?

[Hillbilly]

Not big a deal as you think.
Nowhere in this story does it say you cannot use what you generate and must take down all the solar panels and other means to generate electricity.
You can still live off 100% of what you generate....they just want you hooked up to the grid. And besides if you generate more than enough power than you need they will pay you!!

I generate a majority of my electricity (dc) and I'm still hooked up to the grid....cost roughly 30.00 a month to be hooked up. Beats a 250.00 monthly bill!
I generate my own 60hz signal with one ($8.00...expensive in terms of being a non microcontroller chip) little tiny 8 pin chip http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM440DS.pdf with 3 capacitors and one crystal that I salvaged off electronics that people dispose of on the curb to get picked up.
This chip has a sync pin (pin 5) that when hooked up to the grid syncs with the grids 60hz....being hooked up to the grid to sync with 60hz has many advantages. A simple 22awg (phone) wire wrapped around the hot wire (black wire) inside my breaker panel and tied to pin 5 is all that's needed to sync the chip (my system) to the grid. A simple comparator op amp turns on the green LED indicating sync up.
This way any 120vac inductive appliances (refrigerators, ect.) wont go "BANG" and need the motors replaced because the 60hz grid was not correctly in phase with my 60hz system when power came back on (electronic triacs (breakers) don't reset after the grid goes down) for inductive loads.
When the grid goes down the chip will maintain a reliable 60hz on its own.....you wouldn't even know the grid went down or when it came back on except by the indicator light when my system is drawing a huge amount of current and the batteries are down to a certain percentage.
And when that happens I start up the homemade 200 amp 12vdc alternator (generator) to compensate.

Bloody Hell! Donald Duck you are one Boot Licking apologist for TPTB. Next you will say "it's only an rfid chip under your skin, you don't have to turn it on and use it unless you want to"

[7th trump]

I have no account with the power company.

People don't live in corporations. In any county there are no people. There are only townships, villages and cities. The key to this is to look back at when the county was formed by legislative edict. Did they include any people?


Any constitution that includes the 14th amendment cancels any such protection. As to the states, if Harry S. Truman can enact federal districts in the name of the several States without the states themselves objecting to this then they no longer choose to exist.

But if you choose an illusion over reality who am I to interfere with your fantasy?

All of what you said is total bullshit palani.
For a guy who claims he studies and researches law you sure don't get it.

Your 14th amendment statement only a fool would say because of what the courts have said about the 14th amendment.


“The governments of the United States and of each state of the several states are distinct from one another. The rights of a citizen under one may be quite different from those which he has under the other”.
Colgate v. Harvey, 296 U.S. 404; 56 S.Ct. 252 (1935)

“There is a difference between privileges and immunities belonging to the citizens of the United States as such, and those belonging to the citizens of each state as such”.
Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41 (1900)

“The rights and privileges, and immunities which the fourteenth constitutional amendment and Rev. St. section 1979 , for its enforcement, were designated to protect, are such as belonging to citizens of the United States as such, and not as citizens of a state”.
Wadleigh v. Newhall 136 F. 941 (1905)


"The amendment referred to slavery. Consequently, the only persons embraced by its provisions, and for which Congress was authorized to legislate in the manner were those then in slavery."
Bowlin v. Commonwealth (1867), 65 Kent. Rep. 5, 29.

Then there's this cite which completely makes your 14th amendment premise a false one.


"[U]No white person. . . owes the status of citizenship to the recent amendments to the Federal Constitution."
Van Valkenbrg v. Brown (1872), 43 Cal. Sup. Ct. 43, 47.

But if you, palani, choose an illusion over reality who am I to interfere with your fantasy other than to correct you in your falsehoods?

[midnight rambler]

Only a complete fool would put his faith in the insane utterings of the treasonous and corrupt faggots in the black dresses.

The 'United States' has IRREFUTABLY been under martial rule (i.e. The Lieber Code) since 1863*, and therefore all these so called courts are military tribunals.

*I defy ANYONE to PROVE** otherwise

**no rectum extraction can ever counter the hardcore truth of the matter, IOW there can be no evidence to counter what is CLEARLY laid out in The Lieber Code

[Ponce]

Ho well, at least no one has said that I am wrong with my Land Patent......remember that I have already use it twice.

V

[7th trump]

Bloody Hell! Donald Duck you are one Boot Licking apologist for TPTB. Next you will say "it's only an rfid chip under your skin, you don't have to turn it on and use it unless you want to"

Care to show me what I said makes me an apologist?
All I said was to take advantage of the situation and described how to take that advantage for the readers......nowhere did I apologize for the state.
You made your life choices....and I've made mine......so don't get your panties all worked up because I can do things you cannot.
Seems to me you're a bit of an antagonist freak show looking into things that are not there.

I think your problem with me is I just don't roll over and agree to the consensus of a stupid crowd and speak my position....I look at things totally different than you or the next joe6pack idiot.
Did I mention there are different levels of thought?
Maybe you should shut your pie hole and start thinking for yourself before opening your pie hole....hmmm?

[midnight rambler]

Ho well, at least no one has said that I am wrong with my Land Patent......remember that I have already use it twice.

V

That's great that it's been working for you so far (IMO because the 'courts' don't know how to counter your claim), however The Lieber Code trumps all else* (the law of necessity and all that).

*The Lieber Code was codified into US Army Field Manual 27-10 The Law of Land Warfare and is currently still found there

[7th trump]

Only a complete fool would put his faith in the insane utterings of the treasonous and corrupt faggots in the black dresses.

The 'United States' has IRREFUTABLY been under martial rule (i.e. The Lieber Code) since 1863*, and therefore all these so called courts are military tribunals.

*I defy ANYONE to PROVE** otherwise

**no rectum extraction can ever counter the hardcore truth of the matter, IOW there can be no evidence to counter what is CLEARLY laid out in The Lieber Code
Spoken like a true communist apologist!
Did you even look at the date of those court cites?
All of them are after 1863..this liebor code conspiracy propaganda.

Since when have you ever looked into law?
Now all of a sudden you're a professional legal scholar.....Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!

[midnight rambler]

You really make me laugh...God bless you...thanks for the yuks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8ux3oiWELIQ#t=0

[palani]

All of what you said is total bullshit palani.
For a guy who claims he studies and researches law you sure don't get it. Yet I am not the one with greenbacks fraudulently claiming they are money.

Your 14th amendment statement only a fool would say because of what the courts have said about the 14th amendment. Forget what your foolish courts propose and examine what is actually taking place.

Then there's this cite which completely makes your 14th amendment premise a false one. Do you suppose you will be permitted the keys to the kingdom (knowledge) for NOTHING? I don't see any sacrifice on your part.

But if you, palani, choose an illusion over reality who am I to interfere with your fantasy other than to correct you in your falsehoods? You ... are nobody. Characters that appear on my video monitor that make little sense.

[Horn]

And besides if you generate more than enough power than you need they will pay you!!

those rebates are exclusive and can be cancelled at any moment.

While you still pay for ever increasing connection fees monthly, and taxes ontop of those connection fees monthly.

No, if big gov has issue with your generating, they should think up a better way to by making sure your systems are adequately maintained and functioning.

[Horn]

This again is where I sited the conflict in agendas between all their carbon agenda and sustainable living. Siting International Laws while making local ordinances must and will destroy them in the legal department eventually.

Which global governance does want the local destroyed.

[7th trump]

those rebates are exclusive and can be cancelled at any moment.

While you still pay for ever increasing connection fees monthly, and taxes ontop of those connection fees monthly.

No, if big gov has issue with your generating, they should think up a better way to by making sure your systems are adequately maintained and functioning.

I generate 12vdc only...I then pump that current into a circuit (designed by me) that doesn't use the inefficient transformer to make 120v ac.
The 120vac is a separate circuit.
1st block is the 60hz generation (the elm 440 chip) which is then pumped into a second block consisting of two rails of 60vdc with ground. This is then pumped into the 100 amp generation block...the output is 120vac up to 100 amps of current.

If you understand how wireless communications works (radio) you'll see how I've done this...its based on the same concept as the radio.
Pretty ingenious of me isn't?

Also my house uses 12vdc for all the lights. The tv uses a small converter mounted on the back of the tv itself which 12vdc is fed from a battery bank in the garage....matter of fact all the tv's are that way.
Looking at replacing the refrigerator and deep freeze ac motors with a 12vdc motors so no ac is required to run them.
I figure the more that I can run on 12vdc or even 24vdc the safer and efficient it is.

The US only adopted AC because its better at running current long distances.
If you look at any small appliance it converts ac to dc before anything else happens. The first circuit in any appliance is a rectifier circuit to rectify ac to dc.
Electric stoves heat elements can run on 120vdc just as it can on 120ac. 50% more efficient than ac.

[Horn]

The US only adopted AC because its better at running current long distances.
If you look at most of appliances they take the ac and convert it to dc anyway.

of course trump, it had nothing at all to do with centralized control...[sarc]

Why the man who invented it ended up dieing a beggar when he came up with an even better generator.

[palani]

1st block is the 60hz generation (the elm 440 chip) which is then pumped into a second block consisting of two rails of 60vdc with ground. This is then pumped into the 100 amp generation block...the output is 120vac up to 100 amps of current.

120vac is RMS ... aka 'root mean square'. To determine RMS mathematically you take the waveform, square it, average it (mean) then take the square root of it.

If you are switching two 60 vdc rails you will have 120 v peak to peak but you will only have 60 volts RMS.

Real 120vac is around 339 v peak to peak.

I don't know what YOU got but be happy you have survived the experiment.

[Horn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TttHkDRuyZw#t=4645

[7th trump]

120vac is RMS ... aka 'root mean square'. To determine RMS mathematically you take the waveform, square it, average it (mean) then take the square root of it.

If you are switching two 60 vdc rails you will have 120 v peak to peak but you will only have 60 volts RMS.

Real 120vac is around 339 v peak to peak.

I don't know what YOU got but be happy you have survived the experiment.

I have exactly what I said I have 120vac no different than measuring an outlet and getting 120vac on the meter.

The RMS of 120vac is............42.420......not 60!
Besides I don't need 42.42v or 60v or even 339v (equivalent DC) for appliances that after rectification into DC run on 12v.

I don't know why YOU have to think 339v is an issue when nothing requires 339vac to have 120vdc to begin with.
You really are a master of twisting everything around aren't you palani.
You didn't realize the curtain you were hiding behind was slightly open did you palani?
Made a semantic fool out of yourself with that sad attempt to discredit me.

Show me one thing in any house that requires 339vac to get an equivalent of 120vdc.
A 220vac electric stove doesn't require 120vcd to operate with everything on.
The rms of 220vac is 77.77vdc (dc equivalent).

You can 120vdc through an electric stove as long as the wire is big enough to handle the current. Most wiring is 600v rated.

[7th trump]

120vac is RMS ... aka 'root mean square'. To determine RMS mathematically you take the waveform, square it, average it (mean) then take the square root of it.

If you are switching two 60 vdc rails you will have 120 v peak to peak but you will only have 60 volts RMS.

Real 120vac is around 339 v peak to peak.

I don't know what YOU got but be happy you have survived the experiment.

The 60vdc rails are just to get 120v PP...I could give a fuck about rms at this point. There's hardly any current produced in that block anyway....the 100 amps of dc is injected onto the 120vac in the 100 amp block. Much like a radio injects the audio onto the AM carrier frequency via an amplifier and sent to the antenna. Same principle!

And since 42.42rms (equivalent dc) is way below the 100 amp source the 120vac output is stable.

[Ponce]

I was thinking about this......make their case work against them.......don't pay the electric bill and THEY will keep it off for you.

V

[7th trump]

I was thinking about this......make their case work against them.......don't pay the electric bill and THEY will keep it off for you.

V

Ding Ding Ding!!
Use their own weight against them.....to your advantage!

[palani]

You really are a master of twisting everything around aren't you palani.
You didn't realize the curtain you were hiding behind was slightly open did you palani?
Made a semantic fool out of yourself with that sad attempt to discredit me.

120vac as measured by a meter capable of RMS measurements is looking at a signal that is (from the power company) a sine wave with a peak of 169v with respect to neutral as measured on an oscilloscope or when measured peak to peak with that same oscilloscope is 339v.

Now what you are describing is attaching a 60vdc rail for 8 ms to the line and a -60vdc rail for the next 8 ms and alternating between these two at a 60 hz rate. This provides a 60 vac RMS square wave.

Now you are talking about drawing 100 amp from each rail thinking you are pumping at 120vac RMS which would result in 12 kw when actually you are only pumping at 60vac RMS and drawing only 6 kw.

Sorry, son but that is why you are only an electrician while I have a BSEE with an additional 30 graduate credits in that field. Nobody is trying to make you look foolish but if you happen to reflect on this topic and discover some truth then maybe you just might be wrong about other things as well.

[by the way ... my GPA in EE was a 4.0 although I didn't do so well in other courses ... just mention this to suggest I don't joke about EE topics]

[7th trump]

120vac as measured by a meter capable of RMS measurements is looking at a signal that is (from the power company) a sine wave with a peak of 169v with respect to neutral as measured on an oscilloscope or when measured peak to peak with that same oscilloscope is 339v.

Now what you are describing is attaching a 60vdc rail for 8 ms to the line and a -60vdc rail for the next 8 ms and alternating between these two at a 60 hz rate. This provides a 60 vac RMS square wave.

Now you are talking about drawing 100 amp from each rail thinking you are pumping at 120vac RMS which would result in 12 kw when actually you are only pumping at 60vac RMS and drawing only 6 kw.

Sorry, son but that is why you are only an electrician while I have a BSEE with an additional 30 graduate credits in that field. Nobody is trying to make you look foolish but if you happen to reflect on this topic and discover some truth then maybe you just might be wrong about other things as well.

[by the way ... my GPA in EE was a 4.0 although I didn't do so well in other courses]

Nope........no square wave is generated.....its a sinewave. Stop injecting what you don't know (or read the elm 440 spec sheet I provided).

I never said a damn thing about pumping 120vac RMS...that's you injecting the rms factor into this and then arguing with me about it.
RMS doesnt even matter as you don't get 120vac rms from the power company from any 120vac outlet in any home.....you get 42.42rms....not 339rms
From the power company you get 120vac having a current rating of what ever circuit breaker (usually 20 amps).

You got 120vac mixed up with 120 rms

120vac has an rms factor of 42.42vdc.
The mistake you made is you believe 120vac has a rms value of 120...it doesn't!

Here's the equation to find out the rms value of any ac voltage.

Vrms = 0.3535 * Vpp

120vac (peak to peak) x .3535 = 42.42rms
This equates to 120x.3535 which equals to........42.42vrms (equivalent dc to do the same work).
It takes 120vac to be equal to 42.42vdc (rms).
It takes 339vac to be equal to 120vdc (rms).
See your mistake?

Stop injecting rms into the factor palani.
I could care less about rms.

I have 120vac being produced by two rails at 60voltsvdc with 100 amps at 12vdc injected using power push-pull transistor configuration. If a shop vac pulls 3 amps at 120vac the 3 amps are available.
Stop injecting this rms....its just confusing you to all hell.

Just so you don't forget
You don't get 120vrms from a typical house 120vac outlet...you get 42.42vrms.


To make this simple for you old man......this concept is no different than biasing a transistor smack dab between 120vdc (60volts and 60volts) and applying a 60hz sine wave at the transistors base.....get it now?
No different from the operation of the AM radio.

Old man, nobody is trying to make you look foolish but if you happen to reflect on this topic and discover some truth then maybe you just might be wrong about other things as well.

Hahahahaha........radio towers have been around for over a hundred years. Today they have frequencies in the MHz pushing out mega watts of power....and you cant fathom using the same concept to produce a simple 60hz having 120v huh....hahahahaha you're a hoot palani!

[palani]

Nope........no square wave is generated.....its a sinewave. Stop injecting what you don't know (or read the elm 440 spec sheet I provided).

I never said a damn thing about pumping 120vac RMS...that's you injecting the rms factor into this and then arguing with me about it.
RMS doesnt even matter as you don't get 120vac rms from the power company from any 120vac outlet in any home.....you get 42.42rms....not 339rms
From the power company you get 120vac having a current rating of what ever circuit breaker (usually 20 amps).

You got 120vac mixed up with 120 rms

120vac has an rms factor of 42.42vdc.
The mistake you made is you believe 120vac has a rms value of 120...it doesn't!

Here's the equation to find out the rms value of any ac voltage.


120vac (peak to peak) x .3535 = 42.42rms
This equates to 120x.3535 which equals to........42.42vrms (equivalent dc to do the same work).
It takes 120vac to be equal to 42.42vdc (rms).
It takes 339vac to be equal to 120vdc (rms).
See your mistake?

Stop injecting rms into the factor palani.
I could care less about rms.

I have 120vac being produced by two rails at 60voltsvdc with 100 amps at 12vdc injected using power push-pull transistor configuration. If a shop vac pulls 3 amps at 120vac the 3 amps are available.
Stop injecting this rms....its just confusing you to all hell.
You don't get 120vrms from a typical house 120 outlet...you get 42.42vrms.

Old man, nobody is trying to make you look foolish but if you happen to reflect on this topic and discover some truth then maybe you just might be wrong about other things as well.

I hope you are better at the NEC than you are at electrical math.

Your formula: Vrms = 0.3535 * Vpp

Vpp=339 v

339 Vpp x .3535 = 120Vrms

why are you multiplying Vrms (120) x .3535 to get some nonsense 42.42v?

Like I say ... stick with what you know and from what I have observed I wouldn't hire you to run an electric fence wire.

[7th trump]

I hope you are better at the NEC than you are at electrical math.

Your formula: Vrms = 0.3535 * Vpp

Vpp=339 v

339 Vpp x .3535 = 120Vrms

why are you multiplying Vrms (120) x .3535 to get some nonsense 42.42v?

Like I say ... stick with what you know and from what I have observed I wouldn't hire you to run an electric fence wire.

Nobody gets 339vac from their wall socket...you get 120vac pp
The equation to get rms from a peak to peak voltage (120vac wall socket)....you multiply the peak to peak (120) by .3535

Anyway it doesn't matter.....10 amps is 10 amps if its at 120v or at 12v.

[palani]

Nobody gets 339vac from their wall socket...you get 120vac pp
The equation to get rms from a peak to peak voltage (120vac wall socket)....you multiply the peak to peak (120) by .3535

Anyway it doesn't matter.....10 amps is 10 amps if its at 120v or at 12v.

10 amps at 120 v rms is 1,200 watts. 10 amps at 12vdc only gets you 120 watts.

That is why rms is used. It is effective voltage. It is why you could substitute 120 vdc in place of 120v rms AC if the gadget you are powering could handle it. If you had an AC waveform with an rms voltage of 12 v that waveform would appear on an oscilloscope as 34 Vp-p.

Buddy ... seek help!! You get 120v rms from a typical wall outlet. I have no idea what you get from your outlets though.

[7th trump]

10 amps at 120 v rms is 1,200 watts. 10 amps at 12vdc only gets you 120 watts.

That is why rms is used. It is effective voltage. It is why you could substitute 120 vdc in place of 120v rms AC if the gadget you are powering could handle it. If you had an AC waveform with an rms voltage of 12 v that waveform would appear on an oscilloscope as 34 Vp-p.

Buddy ... seek help!! You get 120v rms from a typical wall outlet. I have no idea what you get from your outlets though.

I know the wattage is different when calculating power when using different voltages.
The problem you have is you think current changes when it doesnt.
Voltage is pressure to push the electrons throught the wire.......electrons dont change...the pressure does.

You can take 12vdc having 10 amps and connect it in parallel with a 24vdc source having 10amps and you will have 24vdc source with 20 amps total.
Like wise you can add 100 amp 12vac in parallel with a 10amp 120vac source and you are going to get 120vac 110 amp power source.....I know I've already done this!

Rms isnt a factor as its only a dc equivalent to do the same amount of work the ac does.
Dc is not a varying source like AC is so to calculate how much AC it takes to equal the same amount of Dc they came up with a RMS value.
AC will always be a highter value than DC....not the other way around as you beleive.

[palani]

You can take 12vdc having 10 amps and connect it in parallel with a 24vdc source having 10amps and you will have 24vdc source with 20 amps total. Your example is nonsense. You may review the thevenin and norton equivalents to circuits here

http://www.calvin.edu/~svleest/circuitExamples/TheveninNorton/



Like wise you can add 100 amp 12vac in parallel with a 10amp 120vac source and you are going to get 120vac 110 amp power source.....I know I've already done this! Is that why you are called 'Flash' at work?

[7th trump]

Your example is nonsense. You may review the thevenin and norton equivalents to circuits here

http://www.calvin.edu/~svleest/circuitExamples/TheveninNorton/


Is that why you are called 'Flash' at work?

Those were taught to us within the 1st 6 months of college.
They dont apply because you have resister and rc networks changing the current and voltage in each branch. Two power supplies in parrallel is not the same branch network as those in your link.

You can bias a push-pull transistor inbetween two battery sources with the base of the transistor, biased at 60vdc, connected to a 60hz signal (elm 440) and get 120vac as an output........I know I have that circuit running.
I have 2 banks of 6 deep cycle batteries (72vdc) with a push-pull power transistor biased in the middle outputing 120vac. The last block fed the 120vac signal from the push-pull transistor are banks of 40 npn(20) and pnp(20) transistors rated at 10a saturation at 100v that supply the current as the draw is needed.
If I require 200 amps the transistors will saturate at 10a each (10a x 20 = 200a) one side will turn on and conduct on the 60v while the other shut off and waits for the negative side where once it drops below 0 volts they will turn on and conduct the -60vc....having a grand a total of 120vac with neutral in the middle as its refferenced to ground.

Its a simple concept grasshopper and it works. Same principal of the AM radio but without all the bullshit circuitry.
Solar panels are a very efficient means of current as is any automotive altornator when they arent going through a current hog transformer where you might get an amp or two from say 100 amps.

[palani]

Those were taught to us within the 1st 6 months of college. You must have been absent that day.


They dont apply because you have resister and rc networks changing the current and voltage in each branch. Two power supplies in parrallel is not the same branch network as those in your link. Of course not identical but each supply may be modeled as either its thevenin or its norton equivalent and the resultant model makes analyzing much simpler. You don't just put two different voltage level power supplies in parallel and somehow manufacture a power level (volts x current) that doesn't equal the power level of each independently. If you could do so then you have a perpetual energy machine.


You can bias a push-pull transistor inbetween two battery sources with the base of the transistor, biased at 60vdc, connected to a 60hz signal (elm 440) and get 120vac as an output........I know I have that circuit running. Which gives you a 120v p-p square wave .... which is 60 v rms.


I have 2 banks of 6 deep cycle batteries (72vdc) with a push-pull power transistor biased in the middle outputing 120vac. The last block fed the 120vac signal from the push-pull transistor are banks of 40 npn(20) and pnp(20) transistors rated at 10a saturation at 100v that supply the current as the draw is needed.
If I require 200 amps the transistors will saturate at 10a each (10a x 20 = 200a) one side will turn on and conduct on the 60v while the other shut off and waits for the negative side where once it drops below 0 volts they will turn on and conduct the -60vc....having a grand a total of 120vac with neutral in the middle as its refferenced to ground. Your bias source might be sinusoidal but remember you specified each transistor is either off or in saturation. If they go through any sort of active region they will become heaters rather than switches.


Its a simple concept grasshopper and it works. Same principal of the AM radio but without all the bullshit circuitry.
Solar panels are a very efficient means of current as is any automotive altornator when they arent going through a current hog transformer where you might get an amp or two from say 100 amps.
Transformers don't consume that much power ... a few per cent at most.

What are you powering with this 'invention'?

[7th trump]

You must have been absent that day.

Of course not identical but each supply may be modeled as either its thevenin or its norton equivalent and the resultant model makes analyzing much simpler. You don't just put two different voltage level power supplies in parallel and somehow manufacture a power level (volts x current) that doesn't equal the power level of each independently. If you could do so then you have a perpetual energy machine.

Which gives you a 120v p-p square wave .... which is 60 v rms.

Your bias source might be sinusoidal but remember you specified each transistor is either off or in saturation. If they go through any sort of active region they will become heaters rather than switches.


Transformers don't consume that much power ... a few per cent at most.

What are you powering with this 'invention'?

Nope wrong again, a push pull is exactly what it is and are used just for that purpose. And they do not make a square wave...they perform exactly like a regular transistor that amplifies any sinewave.

the RMS value of a 120v pp sinewave is not 60vrms....its 42.42vrms.
Its the PP voltage multiplied by .3535 resulting in the rms value. which is not half or .5, but .3535...do the math.

Sure transformers dont take much power but to go from 12vac at 100amps to 120vac its indirectly porportional...the secondary on a transformer is 120vac but with only 10 amps output when the primary is 12vac 100 amps.
Where did you go to school at........this is basic and you dont even know this from reading your posts.

Sure you can parallel 12v to 120v......ever heard of a zener diode?
The positives of the batteries are tied together to get maximum current while the zener is tied to ground of the battery and the other side of the zener is tied to neutral.
I'm giving away too much of my secrets to this circuit.
But anyway you can see why I bypassed the transformer method to get maximum current output which key to power(watts) as voltage is worthles if there isnt sufficient current to do the work.....what good is a transformer if most of the current from the solar cells, altornators and the like is used up to gain 120v?
Waste of time and effort for what little current that remains going the transformer route.

[palani]

Nope wrong again, a push pull is exactly what it is and are used just for that purpose. And they do not make a square wave...they perform exactly like a regular transistor that amplifies any sinewave. Then your power transistors are not operating in the saturated region. They are operating in the ACTIVE region.


the RMS value of a 120v pp sinewave is not 60vrms....its 42.42vrms.
So why did you choose 120 V p-p? You aren't producing anything similar to what the power company is providing. At 100 amps you aren't producing 12 kw you are only producing 4.2 kw. And you never answered my question as to what you are actually powering with your 'invention'.


Its the PP voltage multiplied by .3535 resulting in the rms value. which is not half or .5, but .3535...do the math. 120 V p-p SQUARE WAVE results in 60 V rms.


Sure transformers dont take much power but to go from 12vac at 100amps to 120vac its indirectly porportional...the secondary on a transformer is 120vac but with only 10 amps output when the primary is 12vac 100 amps. Imagine that! Transformers actually TRANSFORM!!!



Where did you go to school at........this is basic and you dont even know this from reading your posts. What is basic is there is nothing you can power up with your 'invention' that is available in any stores. You are limited to lights and heaters. You also don't understand that PUSH-PULL amplifiers (as in Class A) operate only in the ACTIVE region and not the SATURATED region. If they actually did only work in the saturated region or OFF then you would have a multivibrator and would be producing square waves. You describe your output as 120 vac which confuses everyone with a typical power outlet when you don't have anything closely equivalent. And you think you can mix supplies at different voltages and violate the laws of power conservation. And you think I am confused????? You are CLUELESS.

So say the Beta of the transistors you chose is 30 and each transistor is maxed out at 10 amps. That means you have a base current of 1/3 an amp in each. Is your elm440 capable of providing 3.33 amps drive for the power transistors?

[7th trump]

Then your power transistors are not operating in the saturated region. They are operating in the ACTIVE region.


So why did you choose 120 V p-p? You aren't producing anything similar to what the power company is providing. At 100 amps you aren't producing 12 kw you are only producing 4.2 kw. And you never answered my question as to what you are actually powering with your 'invention'.

120 V p-p SQUARE WAVE results in 60 V rms.

Imagine that! Transformers actually TRANSFORM!!!


What is basic is there is nothing you can power up with your 'invention' that is available in any stores. You are limited to lights and heaters. You also don't understand that PUSH-PULL amplifiers (as in Class A) operate only in the ACTIVE region and not the SATURATED region. If they actually did only work in the saturated region or OFF then you would have a multivibrator and would be producing square waves. You describe your output as 120 vac which confuses everyone with a typical power outlet when you don't have anything closely equivalent. And you think you can mix supplies at different voltages and violate the laws of power conservation. And you think I am confused????? You are CLUELESS.

So say the Beta of the transistors you chose is 30 and each transistor is maxed out at 10 amps. That means you have a base current of 1/3 an amp in each. Is your elm440 capable of providing 3.33 amps drive for the power transistors?

Nothing really worth responding to.....you're just playing games now.. like you have been.
Look up a zener diode?
I imagine you think you cant config a 12vdc regulator with a zener diode and get a higher voltage regulation as well?

I'm using a 7805 regulator (5v) and using it to regulate 60v with 3055 transistors to output 10 amps as a test....and guess what?
It works just as it should.

But hey....its probably been years since you learned electronics so you're most likely stuck in that antiquated mind thought. Doubt they had much for solid state back then.
Anyway...you just keep thinking the way things were taught you 45 years ago. Keep thinking inside the box palani.


And I told you...a push-pull isn't amplifying a square wave...its amplifying the sin wave from the elm 440.
You need to go look up what modifications is done to the push-pull config to stop the off set you believe is a square wave.

And to prove you just playing games (which you are well known for). This is the push pull set up I'm using

http://www.answers.com/topic/push-pull-amplifier
Configed in either class A or AB

[palani]

Nothing really worth responding to.....you're just playing games now.. like you have been. Have you done a load test on this 'experiment'?

A 2N3055 has a hfe between 20 and 70 so my assumption of Beta of 30 is not a bad one. I doubt if you have enough base drive to get the current out that you are touting. I also doubt you used any load balancing resistors or took any trouble to match the transistors.

And why won't you let everyone know what you are powering with this circuit?

[Sparky]

I'm developing a filtering algorithm that blocks any thread that has deteriorated into a pissing contest between 7th Trump and Palani. It looks for at least three 3-post sequences of Palani-Trump-Palani or Trump-Palani-Trump, or at least two uninterrupted 4-post sequences including both of them. Then, if the total count of posts between the two of them (within the thread in any sequence) exceeds 10, the thread gets blocked.

[7th trump]

Have you done a load test on this 'experiment'?

A 2N3055 has a hfe between 20 and 70 so my assumption of Beta of 30 is not a bad one. I doubt if you have enough base drive to get the current out that you are touting. I also doubt you used any load balancing resistors or took any trouble to match the transistors.

And why won't you let everyone know what you are powering with this circuit?

Why would I give a shit about the gain (hfe) of a transistor in this case?
I achieved the 5 amps of current flow on the device I was shooting for which the 3055 and its counter part are rated for a maximum of 10?
Gain is irrevelant....I set the base voltage to what it needs to be using a meter to measure the desired voltage out.
This is simple ...simple stuff palani...anybody with a knowledge of electronics wouldn't be asking such elementary questions, but your demonstration is saying otherwise.
How about this......theres a built in amplitude control just as any radio has a volume control. I can adjust the output voltage by adjusting the knob.
Did I mention this circuit is designed off the radio concept?

[palani]

I can adjust the output voltage by adjusting the knob.

Oh, cute!!!

I used to repair 400 kw 10khz induction hardening controls.

So you can tell I am impressed.

The max current on a 2N3055 is 15 amps.

[PatColo]

1 hr:

Overthrow Radio Network: Chris Petherick interviews Off the Grid Activist, Robin Speronis 7/10/2015 - The Farm radio talk show (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2015/07/overthrow-radio-network-chris-petherick_13.html)


http://www.greenbiz.com/sites/default/files/styles/gbz_article_primary_breakpoints_kalapicture_screen-lg_1x/public/images/articles/featured/120417-electricgrid-w.jpg?itok=vIhBP2RG (http://www.greenbiz.com/sites/default/files/styles/gbz_article_primary_breakpoints_kalapicture_screen-lg_1x/public/images/articles/featured/120417-electricgrid-w.jpg?itok=vIhBP2RG)

On this week’s The Farm radio talk show on the Overthrow Radio Network (http://www.overthrowradio.com/), host Chris Petherick will be joined by author Robin Speronis (http://www.offthegridstory.com/), who for the past few years has been fighting local authorities in Cape Coral, Fla. for her right to live off the grid.

The show will focus on Ms. Speronis’s fight as well as providing helpful tips on how regular people can learn to live independently of the nanny state. Show-page (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/overthrow/2015/07/10/the-farm-with-guest-off-the-grid-activist-robin-speronis) AmericanFreePress.net (http://americanfreepress.net/) The Barnes Review (http://www.barnesreview.org/)

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