Stacking Silver: Generic vs Premium

[iOWNme]

I would like to hear the opinion's of the Ag expert stackers here at GSUS on whether or not generic silver is worth buying/keeping.

This video is from SilverShield and it says that generic is not worth buying because it wont fetch as much as the premium stuff when the time comes.

My thoughts are when the SHTF it isnt going to matter if you have premium or generic silver, what will matter is that you have something tangible. Sure, maybe in the first 2 weeks of collapse some people may be snobby and want premium eagles for their bartering ways. But once reality sets in, and people are hungry, they arent going to give a rats ass whether the silver you have has a pretty picture of a flying eagle, or a stupid golf club corporate slogan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT9zfPriCNM



Thoughts?

[singular_me]

Bill Still in The Money Masters contends that it does not matter what one uses as a currency but WHO controls the money supply and the elites will also be in control after the crash. Either they will crash the prices of PMs because a new world fiat currency will be put in place or the PMs will skyrocketing inflicting an even greater financial poverty upon the masses.

I am in favor of interest-free local currencies to decentralize everything.

[pitwab]

Does it matter what gun you use as in an old $20 beater or a new $200 spotless wonder? To me it's more of a what do you wanna fondle? Sure it's nice to say I got the most bang for my buck but looking at 100 ASE's or 100 generic bars get's boring in seconds. Now if you had 100 silver art bars it would take much longer to fondle as you see something different each time. 90% stuff is the same if you ain't a grader which I isn't. If SHTF in a big way I know of no one who will trade me a loaf of bread for a chunk of silver so I make to sure to have all the other things in place before the stack building anyway. Once a new currency is in place people will still be bored by the same old thing.

[Ponce]

One oz of silver is one oz of silver, no matter in what form..........besides, silver rounds will be more for trading rather than selling.

V

[Norweger]

Semi-numismatic coins have been a way better investment the last couple of years.

People who only buy the cheapest, dullest coins because it supposedly gives them more bang per buck are completely missing the point. If you browse around a little you are sure to find coins with a little higher premium with more interesting motives which you can sell for a profit a couple of years down the line, which will enable you to get even more silver for your money compared to if you bought those maple leafs, silver eagles and shitty rounds/bars.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

How pretentious that he shows his generic rounds as being in the same league as silver eagles. He might fetch a premium for his rounds but that is more due to the novelty of the design. His rounds are no better than a generic buffalo round.

[1970 silver art]

I have to agree with some of what silver shield says and disagree with some of what he said in the video.

Generally speaking, silver art bars are treated (and priced) as .999 generic silver and certain ones (mainly rare and semi rare ones) will sell for large premiums over spot silver on ebay and elsewhere online. That has been the case when spot was in the single digits in late 2008 and when spot was $47-$49 in April 2011. Since most local dealers to this day sell silver art bars as generic silver, then I have to disagree to his point of avoiding buying generic silver bars. Like everything else DYODD and research is strongly recommended.

As for premiums, it is hard to predict what premiums will do when spot continues to fall further from here. When we go back to $8 silver, premiums could possibly be what there were when spot was in the single digits in late 2008 and that's assuming that you can find it at a LCS or coin show.

As for the SBSS silver art rounds, a lot of those do not fetch the kinds of premiums that could be had when they first came out. Some of them back then were selling for 2X spot silver price but now a lot of them are selling for $10 over spot or less on ebay. It is a matter of DYODD when it comes to what price to pay for something and what it sells for on ebay.

My take on this is this. It depends on why you are buying silver and how you sell it if/when that time comes. If you are a collector (such as myself), you should by what you like and what makes you happy even if that means possibly paying a high premium on it. If you are a stacker/prepper, then buy the cheapest silver that you can because if SHTF really happens, the person is not going to care what type of silver is as long as stamped "1-oz .999 fine silver". If a SHTF/MAX Max scenario does occur, then premiums on numismatic silver coins, rare old silver art bars and other "collectable silver" will collapse and those types of silver will be treated for their bullion content only. If you are an active trader, then trade with paper silver (ex: silver ETF called SLV) and do not bother with physical silver.

[Ponce]

Paper silver?...........shame on you, in what is to come when the "fancy" silver and the "generic" silver are the same I don't believe that there will be any paper silver........ WTSHTF I will take a silver physical oz but not a paper silver one oz.

PS: Looks to me that Silver Art is very proud of the three tp rolls that he won from me, he must really need them...poor guy.

V

[1970 silver art]

Paper silver?...........shame on you, in what is to come when the "fancy" silver and the "generic" silver are the same I don't believe that there will be any paper silver........ WTSHTF I will take a silver physical oz but not a paper silver one oz.

PS: Looks to me that Silver Art is very proud of the three tp rolls that he won from me, he must really need them...poor guy.

V

Ponce? An oz of silver is an oz of silver but they do not sell I the same manner. Paper silver meaning that the silver ETF called SLV which does still exists for traders to trade with. If SHTF, then I have to agree with you but in a NON-SHTF scenario like we are in now, Paper silver does exists and "fancy" silver tends to sell fore more than generic silver but I tend to buy "fancy" silver at generic prices. I guess I am luck like that. :)

As for my 3 rolls of tp that I "won" from you, I gave them away since I really did not need them. However, I am very proud of you by admitting on this forum on December 31, 2011 that I was right. Bragging rights are money. :)

[Ponce]

You keep thinking on today's term for WTSHTF tomorrow.....unless you travel and find a 1% who is rich you will not sale your fancy silver rounds..........but, I think of my "Silver Island" and you think of your valuable "fancy" silver rounds.

V

[1970 silver art]

You keep thinking on today's term for WTSHTF tomorrow.....unless you travel and find a 1% who is rich you will not sale your fancy silver rounds..........but, I think of my "Silver Island" and you think of your valuable "fancy" silver rounds.

V

Just for the sake of clarification, I collect silver art bars. I do not have many "fancy" silver art rounds. As for the rest of this above post, actually that is not true about selling to just 1% and here's why. There is ALWAYS a demand for '70's silver art bars (i.e fancy silver) and I do not necessarily have to sell to the "1% rich" to get what I want for them. Essentially I can sell the ones that I bought for .999 generic silver premiums on ebay anytime that I want to and get much more than what I paid for them on ebay or elsewhere online. However, it is all irrevelant to me because I do not plan to sell any on ebay since I enjoy what I collect. There is a saying that I heard from another poster way back on GIM1 and that saying is this.........."Know what you own". As a collector, I take this seriously. You can have your silver island but I like my "silver art bar island" better. :)

[Sparky]

I disagreed with almost everything he said.

Even his own example was erroneous. He said at $7 you could buys generics at spot, but it was worth it to pay $8.50 for Eagles. Then, at $21, he said Eagles had a $3-$6 premium.

So let's do the math. At $7 silver, I could have bought 14.2 generic ounces, or 11.7 Eagle ounces. At $21 silver, I could sell the generics for $298, while I could sell the Eagles for anywhere between $281 and $315, or an average of $287. How was it worth it to pay for the original premium?

I also disagree that generics are boring.

Finally, he's disregarded that there are very good but different reasons for buying generic rounds, Eagles, bars, 90% coins, as well as buying gold in addition to silver.

[Libertytree]

While I'm not anything close to an expert I do have a humble opinion. I like non numismatic SAE's for stacking and prepping for larger trading, buying situations. So called "junk" silver to me is where the real bang for the buck lies, silver dollars, halves, quarters and dimes, all 90%. At least with the junk silver you never have to worry about it being counterfeit and is absolutely essential for smaller transactions.

Art bars and generic rounds are ok but let me ask this question.....If you were standing in front of two people and you were selling something, one has rounds/art bars and the other has SAE's and or junk silver which one would you rather trade with?

ETA: This would be in a SHTF situation.

[1970 silver art]

While I'm not anything close to an expert I do have a humble opinion. I like non numismatic SAE's for stacking and prepping for larger trading, buying situations. So called "junk" silver to me is where the real bang for the buck lies, silver dollars, halves, quarters and dimes, all 90%. At least with the junk silver you never have to worry about it being counterfeit and is absolutely essential for smaller transactions.

Art bars and generic rounds are ok but let me ask this question.....If you were standing in front of two people and you were selling something, one has rounds/art bars and the other has SAE's and or junk silver which one would you rather trade with?

ETA: This would be in a SHTF situation.

As much as I am biased towards silver art bars, I will put that aside and answer your question. SAE's and Junk silver would win hands down IMO as the preferred trade in a hypothetical SHTF situation. Since '70's silver art bar collecting is a small niche market of PM's, there will not be many people who will know what or recognize, for example, a 1973 USSC "Woman's Liberation" but a person in a hypothetical SHTF situation doing a trade with someone else will recognize a SAE in a heartbeat and will trade with that person. I will admit that.

[Ponce]

Libery? I for one would choose the art silver but only because is more pretty.....however, the pretty silver would still have the same value as the "ugly" silver.........................and that's my point.

V

[1970 silver art]

Libery? I for one would choose the art silver but only because is more pretty.....however, the pretty silver would still have the same value as the "ugly" silver.........................and that's my point.

V

Ok fair enough. IMO in a hypothetical SHTF situation, the collector premiums and the collector market for old rare silver art bars and numismatic silver market and any other "collectible silver" would collapse and the that would make that type of silver tradable at bullion value only assuming that it is stamped "1-oz .999 silver". The point that I am making here is that we are not in a SHTF situation and "fancy silver" and "generic" silver will sell at different premiums depending on demand and the current market for that type of silver. If LT's hypothetical SHTF did happen, then SAE's and junk silver would rule IMO in terms of trading for something else. Whether we end up in a SHTF/Mad Max scenario remains to be seen.

[Neuro]

The most easily recognizable silver coins will be worth the most in a societal collapse. So probably junk silver coins>American silver eagles>other generic coins (incl. silver eagles coins)>silver art bars>stamped silver cutlery and jewelry>unstamped silver jewelry and kitchen ware>silver granule>electronic waste consisting of silver coating and wires...

[Ponce]

And that's one of the reason as to why I say that today's every day loose change will be very valuable......besides, if a chicken will cost 1/8 part of a silver round will you cut it off and give it to the guy, or will reach in your pocket and give him a today's quarter? I know, I know.....a silver round will cost more than one of today's quarter.......but......forget it, I hate answering myself......think on your own.

V

[Shami-Amourae]

I was always a proponent of stacking Junk Silver. I liked that since I understood there was a limited supply and premiums were insanely low in comparison to other alternatives. My theory has been proven right since as the Junk Silver has dried up from investors buying it all up premiums have skyrocketed and I'm doing much better than people who bought Silver bars or even Eagles.

Right now if I bought more I'd probably stick to 10oz bars though. Junk Silver is no longer worth buying since premiums are so high now. If you think Silver is going up you will want to try to get as much Silver for your Dollars as possible. Just my believe.

[Sparky]

The video also references the 2008 plunge when silver dropped back to $8, and Eagles cost $15, carrying a $7 premium. What the video doesn't mention is that during that period, there were no generic rounds for sale. You couldn't buy one. I tried online, and at my local shop. I could buy Eagles for $15, but chose not to. What does that tell you that retailers were willing to part with Eagles at a ridiculous premium, but would not sell you their generic rounds? I asked my dealer if he had any (because the spin was that there weren't any around, which is ridiculous). He said of course I do, but I'm not selling them at 8 bucks.

If you don't appreciate the value of owning generic, you really don't understand the idea of owning precious metals in the first place. The very idea that your silver must be sanctioned by some government source and that this blessing commands a premium is counter to the very liberty of owning precious metals.

[Libertytree]

I agree with ya Sparky but with the caveat that in a SHTF scenario and you are dealing with people who are clueless about any of it, what would be the most recognized medium of exchange..besides chickens? :)

[mick silver]

silver is silver , no need to write a book it's what it is

[chad]

holy shit, we're taking advice from chris duane the plagiarist, now? LMFAO.

[Neuro]

The video also references the 2008 plunge when silver dropped back to $8, and Eagles cost $15, carrying a $7 premium. What the video doesn't mention is that during that period, there were no generic rounds for sale. You couldn't buy one. I tried online, and at my local shop. I could buy Eagles for $15, but chose not to. What does that tell you that retailers were willing to part with Eagles at a ridiculous premium, but would not sell you their generic rounds? I asked my dealer if he had any (because the spin was that there weren't any around, which is ridiculous). He said of course I do, but I'm not selling them at 8 bucks.

If you don't appreciate the value of owning generic, you really don't understand the idea of owning precious metals in the first place. The very idea that your silver must be sanctioned by some government source and that this blessing commands a premium is counter to the very liberty of owning precious metals.
In the long run it probably doesn't matter a iota what is stamped on your metal or not. However it should.

[Sparky]

I agree with ya Sparky but with the caveat that in a SHTF scenario and you are dealing with people who are clueless about any of it, what would be the most recognized medium of exchange..besides chickens? :)
Chickens is right, LT. During a real SHTF scenario, I don't see where anyone's going to trade me anything of value for my silver. If I'm starving, I'd rather have a chicken than an Eagle. Silver and gold are for before and after TSHTF. They require some type of civilized market. If a SHTF were to linger and eventually require metals-based exchange as a trading medium, all those clueless people will be learning darn quick the difference between generic and premium. And Ponce is right: if we ever do get to that point of breakdown, they'll also be learning the new purchase value of their cupro-nickel pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters.

[woodman]

Give me junk. Easily recognizable and each coin was used time and again for valuable transactions. It's got history. After that it doesn't matter. Get the most silver for the buck but make sure it is in a trustable form. This is the beauty of junk, it is trustable.

[Ponce]

silver is silver , no need to write a book it's what it is

Well mick, you got it....... pretty silver or ugly silver ......a oz of silver is an oz of silver, just be sure that it is silver

V

[Hitch]

Give me junk. Easily recognizable and each coin was used time and again for valuable transactions. It's got history. After that it doesn't matter. Get the most silver for the buck but make sure it is in a trustable form. This is the beauty of junk, it is trustable.

I agree. I'm not as optimistic as many folks on this forum. I don't believe silver is silver, necessarily. When I comes down to it, junk silver is the most trusted, then ASE's. Bottom line.

I think any bars and generic rounds will initially be questioned at some point in the near future. Especially if the price spikes up.

If I had to sell silver right now, I'd unload all my generic ugly silver rounds. I'm keeping my junk silver.

[Dogman]

Here ASE's get a better premium over generic.

[Horn]

As long as it rings at these low low prices.

[madfranks]

I may be one of the few that really prefer generic to the government bullion. When I root through my dealer's generic box, I always find some interesting rounds that I haven't seen before. Since I'm truly a collector at heart, I like to have a bunch of different designs and varieties of bullion in my stash.

[brosil]

I like old generic rounds, also company coins. My dealer pays the same if it's shiny or dull. I do like junk silver, as well.

[gunDriller]

I may be one of the few that really prefer generic to the government bullion. When I root through my dealer's generic box, I always find some interesting rounds that I haven't seen before. Since I'm truly a collector at heart, I like to have a bunch of different designs and varieties of bullion in my stash.


I enjoy talking to coin dealers & other people in the industry. I notice that very few of them pay a significant premium (more than 50 cents) for the Silver Eagle.

[madfranks]

I enjoy talking to coin dealers & other people in the industry. I notice that very few of them pay a significant premium (more than 50 cents) for the Silver Eagle.

I've found that typically those that argue the benefits of high-premium government bullion are the ones trying to sell it for a premium. Like the home shopping network, when they sell 1 oz SAEs, slabbed MS-70 for like $150 each.

[Sparky]

I enjoy talking to coin dealers & other people in the industry. I notice that very few of them pay a significant premium (more than 50 cents) for the Silver Eagle.

I used to encourage people on GSUS (and GIM) to tell us their experiences with selling. It helps us all to understand real market prices, rather than the "advertised" prices.

[chad]

i've found that dealers typically pay $2 or so more over spot for eagles in fantasy talking to them land, but in reality actually sell to them land, they pay the same as generic or at most $1.00 more. usually twenty five to fifty cents over is more like it. the "saes command a premium" line usually only gets told to me on the me buying it end of the transaction. after i buy it, it magically goes away.

[Ponce]

The future (WTSHTF) is what will set up the real value of silver and gold and not the collectors who believe that they will get more for the "pretty" coins that they are holding.....silver will be for trading and gold for buying.

V

[JohnQPublic]

A "generic vs. premium" silver thread. It has been years. I predict To DA Moon, BABY! Any time now.

[Norweger]

If i were to buy any silver now I'd probably pick up a few of these 0.5oz coins with a mintage of 300000

http://world.mintnewsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/great-white-shark.jpg

[Neuro]

If i were to buy any silver now I'd probably pick up a few of these 0.5oz coins with a mintage of 300000

http://world.mintnewsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/great-white-shark.jpg
Hahaha is that real?

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

Just got back from the LCS. Generics were $1.50 over spot and Silver Eagles were $26. I'll take generics any day at that price.

[madfranks]

Just got back from the LCS. Generics were $1.50 over spot and Silver Eagles were $26. I'll take generics any day at that price.

LCS = local coin shop?

I have a little cash to spend on silver, but I'm waiting for the huge coin expo next week here in Denver. My goal will be to pick up as much generic/junk silver as I can.

[Norweger]

Hahaha is that real?

http://aurinum.de/2014-1-2-oz-Silver-Australian-Great-White-Shark

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

LCS = local coin shop?

I have a little cash to spend on silver, but I'm waiting for the huge coin expo next week here in Denver. My goal will be to pick up as much generic/junk silver as I can.

I haven't had much success at coin shows for the past year. Seems lik the dealers are trying to push their numis and hoard the junk silver at these prices. The local coin shop I visited today sold me 90% at 15.2x face. That's around $2 over spot which is around a 10% premium and well within my acceptable range.

[gunDriller]

I used to encourage people on GSUS (and GIM) to tell us their experiences with selling. It helps us all to understand real market prices, rather than the "advertised" prices.

i notice that some dealers are allergic to Gold Maples. personally, i think the color of pure gold is prettier than the Krug (Gold, Copper) or the Eagle (Gold, Copper, Silver).

but i gather some dealers have been burned by dents in Maples, or something.

i know a dealer now who pays spot for 1/10 ounce Maples and $2 under spot for 1/4 ounce Maples.


that testing of your local market is VERY important.

e.g. the Mexican 10 peso - i haven't found many dealers that like them. and the 50 peso is so pretty !

but there's a dealer in Escondido that pays decent for the 10 peso's.


perhaps one moral of the story - to travel with a variety of frac's, so that you can sell when & where you have the best 'arbitrage' situation.


AND - everybody likes Gold Eagles.

[madfranks]

but i gather some dealers have been burned by dents in Maples, or something.

i know a dealer now who pays spot for 1/10 ounce Maples and $2 under spot for 1/4 ounce Maples.

They dent very easily. I was shopping for a few 1/10 ozers one time and almost all of them had dings and dents on them. I ended up passing on them.

[gunDriller]

They dent very easily. I was shopping for a few 1/10 ozers one time and almost all of them had dings and dents on them. I ended up passing on them.

they really need to be kept in the plastic wrapping.

i have one 1/4 oz. Maple with an edge that has a chamfer on it. like someone dropped it on a hard surface.

[govcheetos]

Morgans.

It's nice to think about what they've been used for in the past. Who held them, and what did they know about the state of the world at the time and things to come. Besides Midnight Rider just wouldn't be the same if they where singing about generic silver rounds or 1977 Christmas art bars with Santa Claus on them.