IRS seizes innocent Americans’ assets

[EE_]

Why would anyone even keep money in a bank anymore when the worst kind of slimy criminals can steal it at will?
It's pretty bad that they can seize any asset you own, cars, homes, IRA's, stock market, etc...so why leave yourself open with a bank account too.

The heavy hand of the IRS seizes innocent Americans’ assets
George F. Will, Published: April 30

Earnest moralists lament Americans’ distrust of government. What really is regrettable is that government does much to earn distrust, as Terry Dehko, 70, and his daughter Sandy Thomas, 41, understand.

Terry, who came to Michigan from Iraq in 1970, soon did what immigrants often do: He went into business, buying Schott’s Supermarket in Fraser, Mich., where he still works six days a week. The Internal Revenue Service, a tentacle of a government that spent $3.5 trillion in 2013, tried to steal more than $35,000 from Terry and Sandy that year.

Sandy, a mother of four, has a master’s degree in urban planning but has worked in the store off and on since she was 12. She remembers, “They just walked into the store” and announced that they had emptied the store’s bank account. The IRS agents believed, or pretended to believe, that Terry and Sandy were or conceivably could be — which is sufficient for the IRS — conducting a criminal enterprise when not selling groceries.

What pattern of behavior supposedly aroused the suspicions of a federal government that is ignorant of how small businesses function? Terry and Sandy regularly make deposits of less than $10,000 in the bank across the street. Federal law, aimed primarily at money laundering by drug dealers, requires banks to report cash deposits of more than $10,000. It also makes it illegal to “structure” deposits to evade such reporting.

Because 35 percent of Schott’s Supermarket’s receipts are in cash, Terry and Sandy make frequent trips to the bank to avoid tempting actual criminals by having large sums at the store. Besides, their insurance policy covers no cash loss in excess of $10,000.

In 2010 and 2012, IRS agents visited the store and examined Terry’s and Sandy’s conduct. In 2012, the IRS notified them that it identified “no violations” of banking laws. But on Jan. 22, 2013, Terry and Sandy discovered that the IRS had obtained a secret warrant and emptied the store’s bank account. Sandy says that if the IRS had acted “the day before, there would have been only about $2,000 in the account.” Should we trust that today’s IRS was just lucky in its timing?

The IRS used “civil forfeiture,” the power to seize property suspected of being produced by, or involved with, crime. The IRS could have dispelled its suspicions of Terry and Sandy, if it actually had any, by simply asking them about the reasons — prudence, and the insurance limit — for their banking practices. It had, however, a reason not to ask obvious questions before proceeding.

The civil forfeiture law — if something so devoid of due process can be dignified as law — is an incentive for perverse behavior: Predatory government agencies get to pocket the proceeds from property they seize from Americans without even charging them with, let alone convicting them of, crimes. Criminals are treated better than this because they lose the fruits of their criminality only after being convicted.

Sandy remembers her father exclaiming, “Aren’t we in the United States? We did nothing wrong.” They did something right in discovering the Institute for Justice’s activities against civil forfeiture abuse. IJ, a libertarian defender of property rights and other American premises, says that what was done to Terry is done routinely across the nation — indeed, it was done almost simultaneously to the owner of a gas station near Schott’s Supermarket who deposited his cash receipts whenever he could get to the bank, typically every few days.

Civil forfeiture proceeds on the guilty-until-proven-innocent principle, forcing property owners of limited means to hire lawyers and engage in protracted proceedings against a government with limitless resources just to prove their innocence. Says IJ:

“To make matters worse, forfeiture law treats property owners like random bystanders and requires them to intervene in the lawsuit filed by the government against their property just to get it back. That is why civil forfeiture cases have such unusual names, such as United States v. $35,651.11 in U.S. Currency — the case involving Terry and Sandy.”

In what it probably considered an act of unmerited mercy, the IRS offered to return 20 percent of Terry’s money. Such extortion — pocketing others people’s money — often succeeds when the IRS bullies bewildered people not represented by IJ, which forced the government to return all of Terry’s and the gas station owner’s money.

IJ’s countersuit seeks an injunction to prevent such IRS thefts and extortions. Meanwhile, earnest moralists might consider the possibility that Americans’ distrust of government is insufficient.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-heavy-hand-of-the-irs/2014/04/30/7a56ca9e-cfc5-11e3-a6b1-45c4dffb85a6_story.html

[Dogman]

Sure can understand not wanting to keep large amounts of cash at hand over what is needed for normal operations.

Stupid law being enforced by idiot's!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum Runner

[Ponce]

Old new from 1.5 weeks ago........they are no longer doing it.

V

[Cebu_4_2]

I think I read this last year...

[Twisted Titan]

And the eggplant that conducted this raid probally got a doubble promotion.

[palani]

Anything that is in a bank whether in a safe deposit box or in a money account already belongs to Treasury. If you happen to be using their money then they can take it all back and charge you a penalty to boot.

[madfranks]

Anything that is in a bank whether in a safe deposit box or in a money account already belongs to Treasury. If you happen to be using their money then they can take it all back and charge you a penalty to boot.

So what do you think about bitcoin? Does the treasury own that?

[7th trump]

Anything that is in a bank whether in a safe deposit box or in a money account already belongs to Treasury. If you happen to be using their money then they can take it all back and charge you a penalty to boot.
Couple things wrong with palani's statement.

1st mistake palani made.
Its is not their money!
For instance, a loan, you sign for the money. Therefore you generate the money out of thin air by signature.....not the bank!

2nd mistake palani made.
Safe deposit boxes and accounts don't belong to the Treasury....they belong to the individual banks.

3rd mistake palani made.
There is no penalty!

The courts have already ruled that FRN's are "lawful money" just as they are legal tender.
FRn's are "obligations of the federal government".....not obligations of the federal reserve as palani is suggesting.

[palani]

So what do you think about bitcoin? Does the treasury own that?

While they own you .... you don't own anything. You give up all natural rights for the civil rights of a citizen and that includes private property. For anyone desiring the source of this principle:

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." courtesy of the Declaration of Independence.

[palani]

Its is not their money!
Matthew 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?



Safe deposit boxes and accounts don't belong to the Treasury....they belong to the individual banks. The only man prosecuted for violating Roosevelt's gold seizure held his gold in a bank.


The courts have already ruled that FRN's are "lawful money" just as they are legal tender.
Yet 12 USC 411 permits FRNs to be EXCHANGED for lawful money so how can they BE lawful money unless this EXCHANGE occurred?

A 'tender' is an offer. A legal tender is a legal offer. It is not a lawful offer.

[7th trump]

Matthew 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?


The only man prosecuted for violating Roosevelt's gold seizure held his gold in a bank.


Yet 12 USC 411 permits FRNs to be EXCHANGED for lawful money so how can they BE lawful money unless this EXCHANGE occurred?

A 'tender' is an offer. A legal tender is a legal offer. It is not a lawful offer.

Mathew 22:20 is about paying a tax. Not about whos money it was. Again this is a perfect example of you not understanding the difference of the "subject" from the "object".
Try again!

You know better palani....Roosevelt made it illegal for US citizens to own gold and thus it was confiscated. This by no means says that safe deposit boxes and accounts are owned by the Treasury.
Try again!

12usc 411 specifically states the FRN is an obligation of the federal governments...not the reserve bank system.
Try again!

[palani]

The image on a FRN is not an image of the federal reserve.
If that brand is not one that is 'owned' why don't you try making one yourself. Let me know how that little experience works out for you.


Roosevelt made it illegal for US citizens to own gold and thus it was confiscated. This by no means says that safe deposit boxes and accounts are owned by the Treasury. If you are going to thumb your nose at the feds I don't believe I would be storing any valuables at all in any banks associated with the Federal Reserve.
Try again!


12usc 411 specifically states the FRN is an obligation of the federal governments...not the reserve bank system.
Why should I care whose obligation a FRN is owned by? Why would I NOT care that a FRN is not lawful money until I convert it to lawful money? Once a FRN is converted to lawful money then who does it belong to?

I won't be surprised when you fail yet again. God made you special and we love you even more for that reason.

[7th trump]

If that brand is not one that is 'owned' why don't you try making one yourself. Let me know how that little experience works out for you.

If you are going to thumb your nose at the feds I don't believe I would be storing any valuables at all in any banks associated with the Federal Reserve.
Try again!


Why should I care whose obligation a FRN is owned by? Why would I NOT care that a FRN is not lawful money until I convert it to lawful money? Once a FRN is converted to lawful money then who does it belong to?

I won't be surprised when you fail yet again. God made you special and we love you even more for that reason.

Hahaha...typical palani circle jerking.
You don't even know what "lawful money" is do you?
Please explain to us all what "lawful money" is?

[palani]

Please explain to us all what "lawful money" is?

Let us start by examining what it is NOT .... FRNs.
And why is that? .... because Congress created FRNs for one purpose only .. for exchange between Federal Reserve Banks
One form of lawful money is specie (in gold and silver).
Specie is the only form of Constitutional money.

Is Constitutional money also lawful money? .... yes it is.
Is Constitutional money the ONLY form of lawful money?... not at all.
So what money is not lawful? .... anything that comes with strings attached.
So lawful money has no strings attached? ... that is correct (in the legal plane)

Do FRNs have strings attached? .... Yes they do (in the legal plane)
What are those strings? .... tribute.
Does lawful money have the same strings? ... I already answered that, fool. Lawful money has no obligations attached (except in the lawful plane)

Does that help you out? What part of the rainbow remains unclear?

[Ponce]

Federal Reserve, Federal Land.........Federal, who do you think owns all that has the "Federal" name?.........and owns the Federal?..... they have stolen our land when they had no right to do so...the US government are only the caretakers of the land and no county, state or federal agency has the right to take over any part of it........

V

[7th trump]

Let us start by examining what it is NOT .... FRNs.
And why is that? .... because Congress created FRNs for one purpose only .. for exchange between Federal Reserve Banks
One form of lawful money is specie (in gold and silver).
Specie is the only form of Constitutional money.

Is Constitutional money also lawful money? .... yes it is.
Is Constitutional money the ONLY form of lawful money?... not at all.
So what money is not lawful? .... anything that comes with strings attached.
So lawful money has no strings attached? ... that is correct (in the legal plane)

Do FRNs have strings attached? .... Yes they do (in the legal plane)
What are those strings? .... tribute.
Does lawful money have the same strings? ... I already answered that, fool. Lawful money has no obligations attached (except in the lawful plane)

Does that help you out? What part of the rainbow remains unclear?


Theres nothing in your post that is verifiable what so ever....all hearsay.
The only thing that is a starting point to verify what you say is true is addressing this thing you call..."strings attached".

What do you mean by "strings attached"?
Do you mean an imposition?
If so please inform me what imposition it is so I can investigate the nature of this imposition to determine its origin and purpose.
From there it can be determined if your mantra is just another internet conspiracy theory or having any legal merit.

I just don't go and believe everything you say palani...........99.99% of the time its wrong!

[palani]

Theres nothing in your post that is verifiable what so ever....all hearsay.
No. All BELIEF.

Why do you think congress refuses to define lawful money?

[7th trump]

No. All BELIEF.

Why do you think congress refuses to define lawful money?
Hahahaha....that's my point grasshopper!

Why are you going around defining "lawful money" when the government hasn't?
Are you that damn arrogant?
You make shit up as you go and inject theory where you cannot explain or prove.

That's why I go after your silly whackoo ass...you really don't know shit and inadvertently you prove you don't know shit!
You said it palani....not me!
You're infected palani.
You don't think nor see past your silly nose to what you say.

Is it safe to say you aren't going to explain what you meant by "strings attached"?
Is it safe to assume you have no idea what you meant by "strings attached" or you aren't going to go down that road in fear of being exposed as a know-nothing blow hard?
The truth is a double edged sword and those who lie and bullshit don't like being exposed by the truth.

[palani]

Why are you going around defining "lawful money" when the government hasn't?

Because this is one power I have not ceded to government. I retain the right to define what is or what is not lawful money.

[7th trump]

Because this is one power I have not ceded to government. I retain the right to define what is or what is not lawful money.

You have no such power.
No state constitution, nor the federal, gives any such power to an individual to define money...legal, lawful or otherwise.

Your premise is a false one....you deceit and corrupt.

[palani]

You have no such power.
No state constitution, nor the federal, gives any such power to an individual to define money...legal, lawful or otherwise.


Preamble to the Bill of Rights: THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[7th trump]

Preamble to the Bill of Rights: THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
I believe the Constitution provides for the federal government to determine what money is....ONLY!
There goes your theory out the door!
But then again you have many theories that aren't based on the law.

[palani]

I believe the Constitution provides for the federal government to determine what money is....ONLY!

And you would be wrong again. Constitution only assigns the task to Congress to regulate the value of money. And this is only for money within their closed society. This task does not even extend to Panama.

[7th trump]

And you would be wrong again. Constitution only assigns the task to Congress to regulate the value of money. And this is only for money within their closed society. This task does not even extend to Panama.

I believe its tasked with not only determining the value but coining as well.
Hahahaha.....go right ahead grasshopper and coin or print some of your money and see who comes knocking on your door.

[palani]

I believe its tasked with not only determining the value but coining as well.

They stopped coining money in 1933.

[7th trump]

They stopped coining money in 1933.

More manufactured bullshit from palani!

http://www.monex.com/prods/silver_eagle.html
The silver American Eagle is minted in the U.S. Mint's West Point, New York facility, and is a legal tender U.S. coin with a face value of one U.S. Dollar

[palani]

The silver American Eagle is minted in the U.S. Mint's West Point, New York facility, and is a legal tender U.S. coin with a face value of one U.S. Dollar

Then why would you spend more than a dollar FRN to PURCHASE this coin? Is a dollar not a dollar?

[7th trump]

Then why would you spend more than a dollar FRN to PURCHASE this coin? Is a dollar not a dollar?

Not very intelligent are you palani.
The treasury can only mint precious metal coins...and just as the article I linked to said.......the metal is of more value than the $1 denomination its minted as.

A dollar is 100 cents.
A treasury paper dollar is 100 cents.
A FRN is 100 cents.
Just as a Susan B Anthony $1 coin is 100 cents.
A $1 silver eagle is 100 cents.
A $1 gold piece is 100 cents.

The gold standard is suspended and so is the silver....so whats so freaken hard about this?
Why must you insist on injecting lies and confusion when you know the gold standard has been suspended?
Gold and Silver has since then became a commodity...so the value will fluctuate while the coin itself doesn't deviate in grams.
Its simple economics palani....not conspiracy theory that you hold a special value with.

Anyway you, lied about the treasury not minting coins since 1933....I'm seriously starting to believe you have a bonified mental handicap.

[palani]

The treasury can only mint precious metal coins

Really? And how is that they also mint clad nickel coins? And pennies?

In any event my statement as to Treasury not minting money since 1933 stands. They currently mint QUASI money in the form of clad as well as gold and silver denominated AS money but not intended to be used for money. If you take a $20 double eagle to court to pay a $500 fine they will accept it, credit you $20 and send you a bill for the remaining $480 while the coin you gave them is worth over $1,200.

And THAT is where they commit fraud.

[monty]

Really? And how is that they also mint clad nickel coins? And pennies? In any event my statement as to Treasury not minting money since 1933 stands. They currently mint QUASI money in the form of clad as well as gold and silver denominated AS money but not intended to be used for money. If you take a $20 double eagle to court to pay a $500 fine they will accept it, credit you $20 and send you a bill for the remaining $480 while the coin you gave them is worth over $1,200. And THAT is where they commit fraud.

6338

Did you forget the fractionals?

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[palani]

6338

Did you forget the fractionals?
I take it those are 1964 or earlier 90% silver?

No ... I didn't forget the silver coins. Common law had rules as to how much of a bill could be paid in silver. It wasn't that much. I am thinking under $10. When gold was removed from circulation your ability to pay bills was eliminated.

[7th trump]

I take it those are 1964 or earlier 90% silver?

No ... I didn't forget the silver coins. Common law had rules as to how much of a bill could be paid in silver. It wasn't that much. I am thinking under $10. When gold was removed from circulation your ability to pay bills was eliminated.

Ohhh come on palani....show us just one example of a bill, any bill, that was paid, in full, using FRN's that is still on the books because gold wasn't used.

Lets see you explain this conspiracy into being truth....this will be good!
Going to pop some popcorn now!

[palani]

Ohhh come on palani....show us just one example of a bill, any bill, that was paid, in full, using FRN's that is still on the books because gold wasn't used.

Why don't you give me something really hard? Here are around 100 examples

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[7th trump]

Why don't you give me something really hard? Here are around 100 examples

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Seriously palani?

Apparently you cant comprehend what I asked or deliberately avoiding the question.
Lets try this again...show a bill, say from the 50's, that was paid using FRN's, thats still on the books as being owed because it was paid using FRN's.
You claim you cannot pay off a bill since 1933.......well prove it...show me a bill from the past that was paid using FRN's thats still on the books as being owed.

If you cant just admit it rather than playing your game.
Its time palani......stop playing your games and shut me up for good!

[jimswift]

from wikipedia:

Historically, especially during the Great Depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression), the pauper's oath was required as a prerequisite for receiving welfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_%28financial_aid%29) or other forms of government relief in the United States.

One pauper's oath used when establishing indigent status under United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) Federal law is as follows: [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauper%27s_oath#cite_note-1)




I do solemnly swear that I have not any property, real or personal, exceeding $20, except such as is by law exempt from being taken on civil process for debt; and that I have no property in any way conveyed or concealed, or in any way disposed of, for my future use or benefit. So help me God.




I suppose the questions is/are, WHAT is a 'Dollar' and do you actually have to have any in order to PAY for something?

Could it be possible to use a substitute of a 'Dollar' in order to acquire things, but without actually PAYING for them?

What is the purpose of 'Bondage and Debtors'?

[Dachsie]

Getting back to general topic of this thread and how the IRS can and will seize your assets, I can only say that the IRS is actively involved in illegally seizing assets of many people right now. Someone I know well is suing the IRS because they had a promise in writing from the IRS that the IRS would not "sweep" their bank accounts ever again, but they did.

What is pathetic is that we to some extent are forced to use banks. If a person receives a retirement check from a state or public retirement system, they have to put the check on deposit with the bank and then you can go and withdraw in cash the amount of the check leaving the bank-required minimum on deposit in the account. Same with Social Security checks.

To me, a state/public retirement system, if you live in the home office of the retirement system, ought to sort of operate a little bank where the recipients of the retirement checks can chash their retirement checks for CASH directly from the retirement system office. Same goes for Social Security or other government issued checks. A person should not be forced to have a bank account to convert the check into cash. The person should be able to get the cash from the entity "writing" and issuing the check.

There are very many many hundreds of thousands of people receiving these kinds of checks.

Here is my advice, which I have been following and am continuing to implement personally.

Withdraw from the whole banking system, including credit unions. Don't even go in a bank. Stay away from them. They are garbage.

Just use them to cash your checks and leave minimum on deposit. (Credit unions are better than banks but still withdraw from them.)

Pay your utility bills with cash at the grocery story or at Walmart. There is about a 69 cent charge for each bill paid. Purchase money orders to pay other bills.

Keep a few printed checks on hand and make deposits to cover certain items and times when you want to pay via personal check. (If you do this, you will have to check over your account paper statement sent to you each month. Banks and credit unions make mistakes and you have to check over your account statements carefully if you actively use the accounts.)

When you take out a large amount of cash like several hundred dollars or one or more thousand dollars. Request "Fifties please" on your withdrawal paper slip. Hundreds are getting harder and harder to pay for anything with, even better hotels won't accept cash or hundreds for payment.

When you pay a worker at your house for carpentry or plumbing etc and you pay in cash, tell them you want a paper receipt at the time of payment and tell them before they start the work so they know they will not be paid until they give you a paper receipt.

Find one or more safe places to keep your cash on hand (and your metals and jewelry and other valuables) in your house and put them in tins or double tins for fire proofing. Think of and devise good hiding places in your home. False floors, sliding box behind dresser drawers etc. Tell a trusted family member where your hiding places are. What is sad is that many people do not have a trusted family member or friend who is totally honest. Many are on drugs (including prescription drugs) and will steal if they do not have their drugs when they need them.

Carry at least a hundred dollars on you. Keep fifty in separate secret compartment of your wallet and the rest in regular part of wallet. (You may want to keep some amount in a metal container in a secret part in or on your vehicle too. And also somewhere on the outside of your house or apartment.)


Ann Barnhardt at Barnhardt.biz closed down her agricultural commodities brokerage firm and left employment in that field completely when she saw the theft by Corzine and how he went scott free. The IRS took $20,000 out of her bank account for her not filing any tax returns anymore and then they did another sweep of her checking account where she kept just enough in there to pay her bills. She recommends everyone stop paying their taxes NOW. Let the IRS try to come after 50 million Americans. She says our helping the totally gone, corrupt system to completely fail as soon as possible is a good thing to do. It takes courage and guts and I'm not quite there yet. I have seen how the IRS has stolen several hundred thousand dollars from my friend as well as seized their beautiful home and how the IRS is like a nasty old hound dog and will not let up on the scent. They want to totally mow people down to dirt.

She says she is now living in a van down by the river and has nothing the IRS can seize. She is looking for honest house cleaning work but can't get a job because she is too educated and over qualified. (She really is living in the room of a house of friends but she is broke now and at one time she was "wealthy.)

Remember when you go all or mainly cash in yuor financial operations, you look to the system to be without assets and the IRS and other entities are less likely to hound you. It is even better if you are living in a dwelling that is not in your name, not owned by you.

All of this operating in cash and withdrawing from banks and IRS puts you much more in survival/preparedness mode and that is a good thing. You start planning and learning skills that will keep you independent of our Satanic corrupt system.

Anyway, you get my drift. Withdraw from banking and IRS as much as possible. Do it gradually and you will find you like it a lot. Things are much more private and you can get your business done much faster. All of this of course withdrawing from the online "going paperless" nonsense.

Keep things pared down and simple. There is going to be a complete economic crash. If you have all your money in your possession in any kind of crash or civil unrest situation, you are ten times better off. You also need to have a gun and know how to use it. Lead a quiet, low profile private life.

[palani]

show a bill, say from the 50's, that was paid using FRN's, thats still on the books as being owed because it was paid using FRN's.

You imagination is so impaired that you cannot comprehend that that bill from the '50s is fully part and parcel of that debt that is called THE NATIONAL DEBT? Someone is owed something and this is where it ends up. You believe it is like a dead letter office where the debt will magically disappear because nobody is showing up at your doorstep demanding payment?

My fault. The dead have no imagination.

[7th trump]

You imagination is so impaired that you cannot comprehend that that bill from the '50s is fully part and parcel of that debt that is called THE NATIONAL DEBT? Someone is owed something and this is where it ends up. You believe it is like a dead letter office where the debt will magically disappear because nobody is showing up at your doorstep demanding payment?

My fault. The dead have no imagination.

I dont just imaginate things out of thin air like you do.

Theres nothing in your link confirming a bill from the 50's thats paid in full with FRN's is still on the books.

I notice the credit card bill is going down in size....not up.
Somehow that bill is getting paid down...as in off the books.
So I guess you lose this arguement like all your other arguements.

Its fun showing everyone your not to be trusted. You make it easy for me...but then again you're doing most of the work detrimenting yourself.

[palani]

Somehow that bill is getting paid down...as in off the books.

Not really. It is growing and you are responsible. You may have been less responsible before but now you have full knowledge that by using FRNs you owe something and that something is the basis for income tax rather than your much vaulted SSN theory.

All you have to do is google $346,681,016 to find a debt that is NOT growing and that is because the organic constitutional United States abdicated to its junior the 14th amendment United States in 1878.

[7th trump]

Not really. It is growing and you are responsible. You may have been less responsible before but now you have full knowledge that by using FRNs you owe something and that something is the basis for income tax rather than your much vaulted SSN theory.

All you have to do is google $346,681,016 to find a debt that is NOT growing and that is because the organic constitutional United States abdicated to its junior the 14th amendment United States in 1878.

No that number is decreasing and you are going to stand there and tell me a bold face lie?
I said it before and I'll say it again....you're deceitful in every aspect of the word!

Hahahaha....thus far you haven't procured one (1) piece of evidence that FRN's are the root cause behind the income tax....nothing but a bunch of drivel from you palani.....all hearsay bullshit.
You, palani, fit the description of "delusional" quite perfectly.


1. a mistaken or misleading opinion, idea, belief, etc: he has delusions of grandeur
2. psychiatry illusion See also hallucination a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason
3. the act of deluding or state of being deluded



I can, and have, shown what box 1 and box 3 "wages" on a W2 derive from, how and why they are tallied up. And it all leads straight to Social Security.
The W3 goes straight to the Social Security Administration from the employer...not the IRS!

[palani]

No that number is decreasing

http://i61.tinypic.com/ra2j2c.jpg