2 stage fermentation

[JFN111]

Hey Guys,
I'm just starting a new batch. The last two batches I've done the two stage fermentation but lately I've been reading more articles suggesting the second stage isn't necessary.
Just curious if you guys are still using the two stage method or just keeping the beer in the primary.

[JFN111]

Side note- my daughter bought me a wort chiller for my B-Day.

[Libertytree]

I've never done a two stage ferment and truthfully couldn't understand why it would be done. A wort chiller is the last piece of equipment I need, congrats, enjoy!

[JFN111]

I thought the chiller was a nice gift. I usually just get a gift card so it was fun that she put some thought in it.

[JFN111]

I've never done a two stage ferment and truthfully couldn't understand why it would be done. A wort chiller is the last piece of equipment I need, congrats, enjoy!
I think the thought was you were getting the beer less cloudy by siphoning into a secondary container after about a week.

[Libertytree]

Some questions......

What type of beer are you making? What size batches? Ingredients?

I'd be interested in hearing if you see a difference in not doing a secondary fermentation.

[JFN111]

The Beer is called Flat Tire Ale. It's a knockoff of Fat Tire. It's a lighter beer then I've done before. 5 Gallon Batch.

[JFN111]

The usual process is to leave it in the primary bucket for about a week. Once you see less fermentation you siphon into the glass carboy. This process the beer doesn't continue to sit on top of the sediment that built up from the initial fermenting. Hence 2 stage.
I'm still undecided if I want to leave it in the primary bucket the whole time.
Ingredients:

[Libertytree]

Personally, I hope you just do a single fermentation, for comparisons sake. Unless you shake the hell out of the bucket the sediment is pretty compact actually. Do you have a spigot on your bucket?

[Glass]

I think you are on the right track that a 2 stage ferment is used to clear up the beer. You are doing all grains so it can have value to the finished product in clarity.

As LT points out the yeast cake compacts fairly well but I think you have seen this with your other brews. So maybe once it's settled it's not going to stir up easily and get back into the beer.

I'm only doing extracts at the moment so the beer is clear. As a result I'm only doing a primary ferment. It might run 2 weeks before everything settles and I'm not dealing with as much as you might be given it's extract and not AG. So I guess the question is, does 1st and secondary ferment of maybe 1 week each work better than around 2 in primary?

Worth the experiment. When I get to do AG I will try them and compare. Part of the fun although primary ferment only one less job to do. It could also do with the style. I want to do lager's under more controlled conditions and I'm pretty sure I would rack to secondary for those if doing AG. I think sometimes people do it to re-pitch some yeast if things are going slow due to style or something.

Congrats on the wort chiller. Nice gift. And on sticking at it. You've got a few under you belt now. Starting with AG is pretty impressive. I'm keen to move onto doing a few AG brews but I'll probably use the brew in a bag method and see how it goes.

[JFN111]

Thanks guys, I may just stick with the primary and see what happens. I will siphon into the bottling bucket at the end. I didn't want to start out in the bottling bucket not knowing if the sediment would interfere.
I love the wort chiller.

[Libertytree]

How are you powering your chiller? Pump?

I can see doing a secondary ferment when using grains, either that or investing in one of those inline strainers.

[JFN111]

How are you powering your chiller? Pump?

I can see doing a secondary ferment when using grains, either that or investing in one of those inline strainers.

The best way to use the chiller is with the garden hose. Now that spring has finally arrived I can bring the wort outside and cool on the deck. I can also do the bucket to bucket aeration on the deck without worrying about a little splashing.
This was the way I learned to make beer:
"This is accomplished through two-stage fermentation. Primary fermentation is the first step. During this 5-7 day process, most of the fermentation takes place and by the end of this period most of the particles and solids will settle to the bottom. The second step is transferring the beer in to the secondary fermenter. (7-21 days) Separating the beer from the sediment will result in clearer beer and improve the characteristics of the beer. Beer can condition and clarify in the secondary fermenter for weeks or months depending on the style and strength of the beer. Transferring the beer in to a 5 gallon glass carboy or better bottle will reduce oxidation of the beer."
The wife also saved all the grains from this batch and is going to try making bread.

[Glass]

The thing that worries me about the primary only ferment is the yeast cake. It's basically yeast that has done it's dash and I'd worry that over time it affected the flavour of the beer if you were going for a longer ferment. It could be thats the point. I don't know to be honest. Perhaps Brewtech will look in and help out. As I said before I'd like to do some quality lagers fermented at low temps. Possibly for a couple months before bottling. How would doing a primary only work for that period of time I wonder?

Brewing out on the deck sounds great. If the day is perfect weather even better. Get some music and a cold beer. Wort chiller run off into the garden. I am going try catching my run off and see how much it is, filter it maybe. Just up my filtered water storage if need be. I will go to a burner outside when moving up to BIAB. The pot I just bought is a bit too small for a 23l batch though. I could probably do a Mash ok using 2 pots. Doing those kind of volumes of wort makes a chiller fairly important. My last batch was a 14l boil. Just under 4gal and that was a challenge to cool.

I like the bread idea. I would do that. I've seen a few YT's. Some are pretty fancy recipes. I saw someone making dog biscuits as well. They added somethings including flour and crushed up egg shells. Don't know about the shells but the rest of it looked good.

[JFN111]

The thing that worries me about the primary only ferment is the yeast cake. It's basically yeast that has done it's dash and I'd worry that over time it affected the flavour of the beer if you were going for a longer ferment. It could be thats the point. I don't know to be honest. Perhaps Brewtech will look in and help out. As I said before I'd like to do some quality lagers fermented at low temps. Possibly for a couple months before bottling. How would doing a primary only work for that period of time I wonder?

Brewing out on the deck sounds great. If the day is perfect weather even better. Get some music and a cold beer. Wort chiller run off into the garden. I am going try catching my run off and see how much it is, filter it maybe. Just up my filtered water storage if need be. I will go to a burner outside when moving up to BIAB. The pot I just bought is a bit too small for a 23l batch though. I could probably do a Mash ok using 2 pots. Doing those kind of volumes of wort makes a chiller fairly important. My last batch was a 14l boil. Just under 4gal and that was a challenge to cool.

I like the bread idea. I would do that. I've seen a few YT's. Some are pretty fancy recipes. I saw someone making dog biscuits as well. They added somethings including flour and crushed up egg shells. Don't know about the shells but the rest of it looked good.
I did pick up an outside burner. It was a little to cool and windy yesterday to try it out but next batch for sure. I started out with 4 gallons and with evaporation probably had 3 3/4 gallons left in the pot. It took about 8- 10 minutes for the chiller to bring the wort down from 200F to 80F.

[Libertytree]

When I do get a chiller I'm gonna use my 1/4 horse pump and run ice water through it.

ETA...I'm somewhat forced into this to make it worthwhile in getting a chiller. The water temps are hardly what you would call cool in S FL and pumping half ass cool water through the wort seems hardly worth it as I've seen what those temps do to really cold water. And...since I have the pump I might as well use it to my advantage. I think by constantly passing the cold ice water through it and it refreshing itself on each pass it should take approx 7 gals of wort to 70 degrees or less in 20-30 mins.

[JFN111]

When I do get a chiller I'm gonna use my 1/4 horse pump and run ice water through it.

ETA...I'm somewhat forced into this to make it worthwhile in getting a chiller. The water temps are hardly what you would call cool in S FL and pumping half ass cool water through the wort seems hardly worth it as I've seen what those temps do to really cold water. And...since I have the pump I might as well use it to my advantage. I think by constantly passing the cold ice water through it and it refreshing itself on each pass it should take approx 7 gals of wort to 70 degrees or less in 20-30 mins.
If you can keep the water cold you should be able to get the temp down in less then 30 minutes. 7 gallons is a lot of wort. You must be making 10 gallon batches?
My future SIL is starting to make those size batches and keging them. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.

[Libertytree]

If you can keep the water cold you should be able to get the temp down in less then 30 minutes. 7 gallons is a lot of wort. You must be making 10 gallon batches?
My future SIL is starting to make those size batches and keging them. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.

I'm just hoping for 30 mins and I'd be tickled if it was even 45. last batch was an all nighter. Yep, 20 gal batches actually but I'm bottling them.

I'm looking forward to using a chiller because I think my "cold haze" is a result of my beer not getting a real "cold break" after the cook. IF, what I read is correct my cold haze will be gone and the cold beers I have/take pics of etc... will be crystal clear.