The iOWNme Principle Thread

[EE_]

This is a thread to discuss an actual working principle in our society today.
I'll attempt to start the discussion.

Today all government has been abolished and no longer exists.
We have a society where 50% of the people are lazy, moralless, uneducated degenerates that feel they are entitled to the fruits of your labor.
Another 20% of the people are sociopaths/psycopaths that want nothing but domination, wealth and power and will do anything to get it.
30% are good moral people scattered around the country, that want to live free and build a new society.

iOWNme Principle - Day 1...
Take it away guys!

[Cebu_4_2]

Any lazy, moralless, sociopaths/psycopaths try to steal or rule me will be met with force if they exert force. If not I move on.

[EE_]

Watch Professor iOWNme state his case


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM

[EE_]

Any lazy, moralless, sociopaths/psycopaths try to steal or rule me will be met with force if they exert force. If not I move on.

But you are only one man and they will be coming at you in groups?

[Horn]

First order of business is zoning an area land suitable for a massive graveyard, or factory type funeral pyre.

It should not be done in anyone's backyard.

Long live Nestor!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/1921._%D0%9D%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%9C% D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE_%D0%B2_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3% D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%B5% D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1 %8B%D1%85_%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86_%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D1%83%D 0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8.jpg

[EE_]

First order of business is zoning an area land suitable for a massive graveyard, or factory type funeral pyre.

It should not be done in anyone's backyard.

Long live Nestor!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/1921._%D0%9D%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%9C% D0%B0%D1%85%D0%BD%D0%BE_%D0%B2_%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3% D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D0%B5% D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1 %8B%D1%85_%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%86_%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D1%83%D 0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8.jpg

?
Urban Dictionary

1.nester
a person who lines a toilet seat with toilet paper, paper towels or some other paper product before using a public toilet, then leaves the "nest" of paper on the seat, to the chagrin of everyone else who uses the restroom.
Did you see the god damn bathroom? The fucking nester left his fucking nest on the toilet again.

[Cebu_4_2]

But you are only one man and they will be coming at you in groups?

I am very good at grouping.

[Ponce]

EE? was that from a movie? I would love to see it............when my friend had his company he skipped all that 100% and was very successful with his small business ....... like he told me "I'd rather be a big frog in a small pond than a small frog is a big pond" and another that I have seen "The nail sticking out gets pounded"......he is now retired and very happy.

Is like I keep saying....."When you break their rules you are making your own ruled"

V

[iOWNme]

This is a thread to discuss an actual working principle in our society today.
I'll attempt to start the discussion.

Today all government has been abolished and no longer exists.
We have a society where 50% of the people are lazy, moralless, uneducated degenerates that feel they are entitled to the fruits of your labor.
Another 20% of the people are sociopaths/psycopaths that want nothing but domination, wealth and power and will do anything to get it.
30% are good moral people scattered around the country, that want to live free and build a new society.

iOWNme Principle - Day 1...
Take it away guys!


Do you actually want to have a rational discussion about this? Because EVERYTHING you posted about that is to be considered 'bad' are all the result of having 'Government' from cradle to grave for people. You cannot possibly have a fair debate when you are using the result of 'Government' as the reason we need 'Government'. This is a called a contradiction and circular logic/reasoning.

Here, let me help you understand your own logic system:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrhsl11nlt1qjqdh8o1_500.jpg





Now, if you ever want to actually have a discussion about how the world should work, is supposed to work and would work without the belief in 'Government', then im all game for that.

[Hitch]

Now, if you ever want to actually have a discussion about how the world should work, is supposed to work and would work without the belief in 'Government', then im all game for that.

Well let's discuss that then. I think we all agree, we have way too much 'government'. Do you believe in any government at all? How do you envision society functioning without some form of government?

[EE_]

Do you actually want to have a rational discussion about this? Because EVERYTHING you posted about that is to be considered 'bad' are all the result of having 'Government' from cradle to grave for people. You cannot possibly have a fair debate when you are using the result of 'Government' as the reason we need 'Government'. This is a called a contradiction and circular logic/reasoning.

Here, let me help you understand your own logic system:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrhsl11nlt1qjqdh8o1_500.jpg





Now, if you ever want to actually have a discussion about how the world should work, is supposed to work and would work without the belief in 'Government', then im all game for that.

I agree that many in the "50% of the people are lazy, moralless, uneducated degenerates that feel they are entitled to the fruits of your labor" group are the product of government, but government can't account for all of them. There are other outside forces at work influencing this group also.

The other two groups, the ones that are genuinely evil, self-centered and greedy, are that in spite of government.
Government may enable them to enrich themselves more, but there's really no difference.

Good people are genuinly good, and are mostly born good people, nothing to do with government. Of cource some could be reformed to being good people too.

There are periods in history where there was very little government and that government had little influence in people or a town's lives. I'm sure the three groups existed then too, but in different degrees because the common man would settle his own agreements and disagreements himself. It helped that communities were small then too.

This discussion is about society today.

So we have to start somewhere. How about money. The IOM version of money, who coins it/makes it, controls it and protects it?

I believe you are selling a principle you believe, if people adopt this way of thinking and structuring society, that it can change society for the better beginning now.
So let's structure this new society and not one in fantasy land.

[singular_me]

As long as a revolution in humans' hearts (induced by the realization that we all have been had, hence love your enemies) doesnt take place, we'll continue to perceive people as incapable to act responsibly and empower hegelian centralization. Should the unexpectable happen, the aftermath will translate into the end of all govs.

The very last chance to have some kind of "reasonable gov" was incarnated by Founding Fathers... since it failed... there is no way back.

the only two choices we have and which have always been: the Matrix (fear) or Freedom (love)

[horseshoe3]

I really, REALLY want to believe in anarchy, but I'm not there yet. I see many benefits to it as long as people are decent. I find it lacking in ultimate conflict resolution. I'm not saying it's worse than any other system, but it is lacking.

That said, I have benefited greatly from IOWNme's many threads on the subject. He has answered many questions and always presented a good argument in favor of anarchy. I also appreciate threads like this where he gets challenged by someone and is forced to defend his position. I think we all gain by having a challenging, but civil discussion.

[singular_me]

horseshoe3, glad to read that you find anarchy threads on here interesting.

before addressing the conflict-resolution issue, anarchy requires above all the understanding that the less coercive a system is the better people are.

arguing for a gov is not only like placing the cart before the horse but makes no sense as 90% of the all ills are caused by the gov. I'd rather trust humans to be creative enough to resolve the 10% remaining.

edit:
the mindset to compare humans to animals is behind any government drive. While the only trait we share with animals is the surviving instinct (what every living cell has as a matter of fact) , humans are not animals, aminals live in harnony with nature. At this stage, we have gravely endangered Nature because of popular beliefs that man is an animal and needs to be protected from himself.

The cartels (2% of population) have figured it out millennia ago that their power rests on a 'pereception deception' aimed at sustaining the fear and ignorance of the 98%. In a 4000 year time frame, it has just gotten from bad to worse.

The upside here is that humans' gullibility is also sign that human nature is fundamentally good.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Anarchists have faith in the goodness of human nature. They generally blame 'rulers' for perverting that goodness. No rulers means no government. So, anarchism is primarily associated with the idea of no government.

I would take it a step further. I think what perverts the goodness of human nature is not only rulers, but the structure they exist in--hierarchy. Government is a specialized form of hierarchy. There are others. Corporations are hierarchies. Religions are hierarchies. Militaries are hierarchies. Any kind of club or organization--including schools are hierarchies.

Hierarchies have a chain of obedience. Some call it a chain of command, but that is an ass backward view because command would not exist if there were no obedience.

I think if you really want anarchy to work, it is necessary to dispose of hierarchies that are permanent structures. Humans work best at a tribal level--in small groups of up to 30 people where natural hierarchies exist with checks and balances that keep it viable. Any organization with more than 30 members that requires a permanent hierarchy to make it work is the real problem that faces human beings. Because it concentrates power and is beyond the power of individuals to resist.


Hatha

[Horn]

?
Urban Dictionary

1.nester
a person who lines a toilet seat with toilet paper, paper towels or some other paper product before using a public toilet, then leaves the "nest" of paper on the seat, to the chagrin of everyone else who uses the restroom.
Did you see the god damn bathroom? The fucking nester left his fucking nest on the toilet again.

Friggin restroom anarchists the lot of them.


Available for the first time in English paperback, here’s the gripping story of Ukrainian anarchist Nestor Makhno. With his usual wit and engaging style, Skirda chronicles the life of a legend and the insurgent army that fought in his name. Always controversial, Makhno has been described as everything from a drunken bandit to an inspirational hero. From Makhno’s imprisonment, to battles with the Bolsheviks and the White Army, to the final exile in Paris, Skirda captures the life of Makhno and the history of the Makhnovist movement.

http://www.amazon.com/Nestor-Makhno-Anarchys-Cossack-Struggle-1917-1921/dp/1902593685

[Santa]

Anarchists have faith in the goodness of human nature. They generally blame 'rulers' for perverting that goodness. No rulers means no government. So, anarchism is primarily associated with the idea of no government.

I would take it a step further. I think what perverts the goodness of human nature is not only rulers, but the structure they exist in--hierarchy. Government is a specialized form of hierarchy. There are others. Corporations are hierarchies. Religions are hierarchies. Militaries are hierarchies. Any kind of club or organization--including schools are hierarchies.

Hierarchies have a chain of obedience. Some call it a chain of command, but that is an ass backward view because command would not exist if there were no obedience.

I think if you really want anarchy to work, it is necessary to dispose of hierarchies that are permanent structures. Humans work best at a tribal level--in small groups of up to 30 people where natural hierarchies exist with checks and balances that keep it viable. Any organization with more than 30 members that requires a permanent hierarchy to make it work is the real problem that faces human beings. Because it concentrates power and is beyond the power of individuals to resist.

Hatha

Yes, and where does hierarchy originate? It's rooted in Family structure. Parents have natural authority over their children.
We're all raised to believe in this natural authority beginning with the first "NO!
And unfortunately, it seems to just go on and on endlessly.

Just look at the term "Founding Fathers".

There don't seem to be very many societal organizations that don't go by this hierarchical paternalistic religious paradigm.

The only examples I can think of were some Indian tribes, who basically let their children take care of themselves and didn't swaddle them in security and protections.

One of my first clues as to the direction society was heading came to me via "seat belt laws", somewhere in the mid 80's.

I remember having heated arguments over it, usually with women. You know, safety first.

And it was Insurance Co. lobbyists who got the laws enacted. In fact, I find Insurance Companies to be every bit as responsible for the growing police state as is our paternalistic Government.

Actually, I think they're one and the same thing. We have a paternalistic government who's prime motive is profit, and who's sales shtick is security.

[EE_]

I'm wondering how this IOM principle will work in society, when a very small group here at gsus can't even work things out without needing an appointed authority presiding over members disagreements and handing down punishment?

See this thread: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?77712-America-vs-Russia&p=712529#post712529

[Hitch]

I'm wondering how this IOM principle will work in society, when a very small group here at gsus can't even work things out without needing an appointed authority presiding over members disagreements and handing down punishment?

See this thread: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?77712-America-vs-Russia&p=712529#post712529

Haha, great point. If this forum is an analogy, JQP is the government, and Madfranks and Neuro are cops.

[Libertytree]

I think the concept would work on a forum level, as I stated here. http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?74720-A-novel-forum-idea!

Yeah, it needs tweaked but the premise is the same.

[singular_me]

We're all raised to believe in this natural authority beginning with the first "NO!
And unfortunately, it seems to just go on and on endlessly.
how many kids didnt burn themselves playing with fire, yet were told "no" by their parents? This example is very simple... while not all expériences are valuable, experience is what will always matter most from a sujective standpoint. Human nature is just too curious and creative. No Wonder we have so many laws. Most of the negative that is happening is the result of creative supression.


The only examples I can think of were some Indian tribes, who basically let their children take care of themselves and didn't swaddle them in security and protections.

It is neither true nor false, these kids are raised to succeed the "rites of passage" (rituals event that marks a person's transition from one status to another), during which they have to show their courage. It is an authoritative peer pressure nonetheless. edit: the only difference I see, is that the whole tribe is in charge of the all the kids, not just their parents.

[Horn]

Haha, great point. If this forum is an analogy, JQP is the government, and Madfranks and Neuro are cops.

Cops come when nobody calls, the sheriff always needs to be invoked.

I'd like to think of Neuro and franks as sheriffs, sometimes they let me down.

[Hitch]

Cops come when nobody calls, the sheriff always needs to be invoked.

I'd like to think of Neuro and franks as sheriffs, sometimes they let me down.

I am always pleasantly surprised and it honestly brings a smile to my face, when folks see truth, post the truth, and teach me, truth.

This was one of those moments. Thank you, Horn.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdPEPVmP3LE

[iOWNme]

Well let's discuss that then. I think we all agree, we have way too much 'government'. Do you believe in any government at all? How do you envision society functioning without some form of government?


There is no such thing as 'Government'. 'Government' is a euphemism for SLAVERY. Men who IMAGINE they have the moral right to initiate violence against their fellow man. 'Government' is nothing more than a gang of violence criminals.

So you can imagine how silly your question seems to me:

"I think we all agree, we have to large of a group of violent criminals. Do you believe in any 'gangs of violent criminals' at all? How do you envision society functioning without some form of 'gangs of violent criminals"?

Does this seem like a sane and rational way to figure out the world to you?

[iOWNme]

Anarchists have faith in the goodness of human nature. They generally blame 'rulers' for perverting that goodness. No rulers means no government. So, anarchism is primarily associated with the idea of no government.

I would take it a step further. I think what perverts the goodness of human nature is not only rulers, but the structure they exist in--hierarchy. Government is a specialized form of hierarchy. There are others. Corporations are hierarchies. Religions are hierarchies. Militaries are hierarchies. Any kind of club or organization--including schools are hierarchies.

Hierarchies have a chain of obedience. Some call it a chain of command, but that is an ass backward view because command would not exist if there were no obedience.

I think if you really want anarchy to work, it is necessary to dispose of hierarchies that are permanent structures. Humans work best at a tribal level--in small groups of up to 30 people where natural hierarchies exist with checks and balances that keep it viable. Any organization with more than 30 members that requires a permanent hierarchy to make it work is the real problem that faces human beings. Because it concentrates power and is beyond the power of individuals to resist.


Hatha


While i agree with you that a 'hierarchy' based system can be corrupted, there in only one single hierarchy in existence that people IMAGINE they must obey. You mentioned hierarchies in various things like Corporations, religions, clubs/organizations, families, etc. But if 8 employees of Walmart tried to kick your door down and kidnap you, you would inherently recognize it as evil and resist. If your neighbors dad came over and tried to spank you for not putting your toys away, you would recognize it as evil and resist him. If the Girl Scouts tried to force you to buy their cookies under threat of violence, you would instantly recognize it as illegitimate and resist them.

Now here's the kicker, its not the belief in all 'Government'. If the Chinese army invaded tomorrow and tried to enforce a new Chinese Communist tax system, NOBODY would put up with it. This is where 'Nationalism' is used to cripple the individual thought and morality of the people. The Tyrant across the ocean: Bad. The Tyrant here at home: Good.

Yet, you can apply the EXACT SAME MORAL PRINCIPLE to 'Government' and almost nobody will resist? What would have to exist between the ears of someone for them to IMAGINE they must obey the most violent criminal gang on the face of the planet, knowing they would resist any other gang that tried to rule them?

[iOWNme]

We have a paternalistic government who's prime motive is profit, and who's sales shtick is security.


Is there any other kind? Is there any form of 'Government' in the history of the world that wasnt created to 'protect' its people?

Which is an obvious contradiction since every 'Government' ever created is funded through theft. And if there ever was a 'Government' that was only funded through voluntary means, it would cease to be a 'Government'. It would simply be a group of individuals voluntarily interacting, and that alone does not create a 'Government'.

[iOWNme]

I'm wondering how this IOM principle will work in society, when a very small group here at gsus can't even work things out without needing an appointed authority presiding over members disagreements and handing down punishment?

See this thread: http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?77712-America-vs-Russia&p=712529#post712529


Are you pointing to an instance where two people are bickering back and forth as some sort of proof as to why I need to be robbed?

[Hatha Sunahara]

Government is similar to a 'protection' racket employed by the mafia. The idea of government evolved with civilization. Early civilizations centered on agriculture, and a specialization of labor. So, farmers grew food in quantities surplus to their needs, and markets developed to distribute that surplus to people who were not farmers. Governments developed first as marauding thieves who stole the surplus from the farmers, and who saw that they could get away with this theft by simply announcing their right to steal the surplus food. In exchange, the thieves offered 'protection' ostensibly from themselves. And that whole idea hasn't advance much further until even today.


Hatha

[Carl]

There is no such thing as 'Government'. 'Government' is a euphemism for SLAVERY. Men who IMAGINE they have the moral right to initiate violence against their fellow man. 'Government' is nothing more than a gang of violence criminals.

So you can imagine how silly your question seems to me:

"I think we all agree, we have to large of a group of violent criminals. Do you believe in any 'gangs of violent criminals' at all? How do you envision society functioning without some form of 'gangs of violent criminals"?
Does this seem like a sane and rational way to figure out the world to you?
That's some funny, delusional, Marxist shit!

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr_cLaNt0WQ

[singular_me]

For voluntaryism to work, masses must understand the true nature of power

power cant be sustained without lies, aggression obfuscations, theft, frauds, etc , hence will inexorably lead to upheavals down the road.

the founding fathers' experiment failed because masses are not aware of this. The proof that this awakening must occur of a grand scale... the failure of the experiment means that the framework itself is bogus. The observation, just depends on which side of the fence one sits on, either the politicians or populations' fault. Voluntaryism regards the problem as populations' responsibility. Statism asserts otherwise.

Massive awareness is much too difficult for many people to conceive as they all want to hold on to their own subjective bubble while deliberately ignoring that shocks to the system are in fact caused by a Greater Reality exploited by whatever PTB. And this is the 4000+ year old shabby/evil secret of power/the NWO.

The issue is much more of a metaphysical one. There is a Greater Reality which we can't escape from (the only Natural Law in the entire Universe). Be aware (of the Whole) or die. Man is his own enemy... and because this grand scale realization doesnt take place, the avoidance is being transferred into the illusion that politics is the root cause.

Learning self-governance is the destiny of mankind.

[EE_]

Are you pointing to an instance where two people are bickering back and forth as some sort of proof as to why I need to be robbed?

No, not two people bickering...two like minded people in a 'community' forum of liberty, preping, and survival that have been interacting for years, that need an AUTHORITY to to mediate, police and serve justice.

If we can't make a difference here, what do you expect to accomplish with 50% of the population that are programmed, lazy, moralless, uneducated degenerates that feel they are entitled to the fruits of your labor?

If what you've been preaching has been sinking in around here, you would think there would be some type of mass protest against the gsus government on their call to pass judgement and serve punishment on a member for expressing his opinions to another member?

Maybe you need to realize that the general population accepts being governed by others that are appointed to a position of AUTHORITY.

https://godneighbor.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/circular-reasoning1.jpg

[Hitch]

If we can't make a difference here, what do you expect to accomplish with 50% of the population that are programmed, lazy, moralless, uneducated degenerates that feel they are entitled to the fruits of your labor?

So, the real question is, who takes more of our freedoms away, the government, or the lazy entitled people who get cut off and go apeshit in IOM's wetdream?

[iOWNme]

That's some funny, delusional, Marxist shit!

Thats twice you have resorted to name calling and trying to put a label on me. Can you REALLY not debate your position without relying on these unintelligent tactics?

So what your saying is that you cant show me any form of 'Government' that is voluntary?

Again, your entire position rests on name calling and character assassination. You cannot logically or morally rebut the position of Anarchy because Anarchy is the only logical and moral position.

[EE_]

So, the real question is, who takes more of our freedoms away, the government, or the lazy entitled people who get cut off and go apeshit in IOM's wetdream?

Interesting question...I'll have to ponder that for a bit.

I believe all movements begin with a single great idea. I don't believe IOM's principle is that great idea.

I come from a school of thought that applied force needs equal or greater force applied.
My principle is called the 'takeEMout' principle. The trash must be taken out before change can begin.

[iOWNme]

So, the real question is, who takes more of our freedoms away, the government, or the lazy entitled people who get cut off and go apeshit in IOM's wetdream?

Where did these 'lazy and entitled' people come from? Who created them? Who feeds and houses them? Who gives them an actual means to harming you?

If there were no 'Government' how could these 'lazy entitled people' be able to 'take your freedoms away'? By definition they are 'lazy and entitled', not exactly a prerequisite to becoming a pro-active offensive aggressive hardened criminal.

I swear Hitch you are so blinded for your biased opinions and dislike for me and Anarchy you cant even see the blatant contradictions rolling around inside your own head. You and everyone else on this board CONSTANTLY point to the problems that have been created by 'Government' as the reason why we need 'Government'. Its not only self-contradictory, but it is an insane and irrational belief system.

'Government' has killed almost 300 million innocent people in the last 100 years. I want you to walk me throough the scenario where without the belief in 'Government' you can convince a million young men to go kill another million young men whom they have never met before.

Essentially your position is that the individual criminals: John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahmer and Charles Manson would have killed BILLIONS of people on their own, if 'Government' wouldnt have stopped them.

This is obviously a laughable assessment, yet you and others wholeheartedly believe this to be true. I wonder who taught you this? Could it have been 'Government'?

[Hitch]

If there were no 'Government' how could these 'lazy entitled people' be able to 'take your freedoms away'?

I'm just one guy. Even if I locked all doors and had all my guns ready, how many robbers could I stop? Think of the millions of people that are dependent on the government now. When they get cut off, what do you think they will do? You want an instant zombie apocalypse, that's how you get it.

Sui, I like you and your posts always make me think. But, realistically, your ideals would only work in a society that has morality clearly defined. Morality has been so far distorted in our country, I think it's long gone.

[EE_]

If there were no 'Government' how could these 'lazy entitled people' be able to 'take your freedoms away'?

Maybe it's they that give government their power.

"if" If your grandfather had a vagina, he'd be your grandmother...that's as far as "if" goes.

The reality is we do have government, the people want it and you will have a huge fight on your hands to even begin to change that.

[EE_]

Where did these 'lazy and entitled' people come from? Who created them? Who feeds and houses them?[COLOR=#ff0000][B] Who gives them an actual means to harming you?

Maybe we should reverse this question...
Where did this oppressive government come from. Did lazy entitled people create it?
Do lazy entitled people give the government the power to harm you?

[iOWNme]

Interesting question...I'll have to ponder that for a bit.

Really? You have to ponder if individual criminals could do more harm than 'Governments'? Holy smokes man....Im not even sure if your being honest anymore.


I belive all movements begin with a single great idea. I don't believe IOM's principle is that great idea.

My 'principles' are unchanging and consistent, Whether you agree with them or not. Self Ownership, Voluntaryism and the NAP. It doesnt surprise me that a Statist does not agree that these 3 principles are the foundation to a moral and just society. Can you please tell me what principles YOU advocate for?

I claim you have no principles at all. Im not even being rude, im making this judgment based off of many of your posts contradicting themselves left and right.


I come from a school of thought that applied force needs equal or greater force applied.
My principle is called the 'takeEMout' principle. The trash must be taken out before change can begin.

I agree 100%. The only difference is you think this principle changes depending on costumes, scribbles and pseudo-religious ceremonies, I DO NOT.

[singular_me]

indeed, time to pick our fight... which one will be the most successful, people's or that of the NWO?... people want a government = depopulation agenda. EDIT: How can one say that people want it when most of them dont have a clue about what is happening to them ??? the only school of thought I see here explains the biblical judgment day, maybe 666 is man's stupidity after all.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/64/9d/d6/the-american-stonehenge.jpg



come from a school of thought that applied force needs equal or greater force applied.... The reality is we do have government, the people want it and you will have a huge fight on your hands to even begin to change that.

[EE_]

Originally Posted by Carl
That's some funny, delusional, Marxist shit!


Thats twice you have resorted to name calling and trying to put a label on me.

Should we report Carl to the AUTHORITY you have accepted here at gsus?

When you move into a country, you abide by that countries AUTHORITY rules
When you move into a state, you abide by the rules of the state AUTHORITY.
When you move into a city, same thing.
When you move into a internet community forum, you abide by the forum's AUTHORITY rules.

Do you accept these terms?

[EE_]

indeed, time to pick up our fight... which one will be the most successful, people's or that of the NWO?... people want a government = depopulation agenda

http://archive.wired.com/images/article/magazine/1705/ff_guidestones_f.jpg

All the answers are there for all to see.
Just watch what government does and apply the same to them with greater force. Simple!

[Santa]

Planets never become stars
Pond scum never becomes people
And People never become God.

Politics is the dream that people become like God.

Eternal.

Death is the Great Awakening
from the dream to the reality.

[Horn]

For voluntaryism to work, masses must understand the true nature of power

power cant be sustained without lies, aggression obfuscations, theft, frauds, etc , hence will inexorably lead to upheavals down the road.


Its not a necessarily theft when power is exchanged freely with choice thru a standard form of mercantile tax non inclusive of necessities.

as for the rest of your post (while well written), I will beg to differ, that everyone is terribly aware of tptb.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDsqpeiTqg8

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMjPbbM5fPU

[singular_me]

if history is any indication revolutions have been proven useless

we need a mind revolution since the war waged on humans has always been psychic aka mind control



All the answers are there for all to see.
Just watch what government does and apply the same to them with greater force. Simple!

[EE_]

if history is any indication revolutions have been proven useless

we need a mind revolution since the war waged on humans has always been psychic aka mind control

Don't lose faith in revolution because it hasn't always had the desired outcome...maybe a bigger stick is all that's needed?
Problem: they use mind control to make people fear.
Solution: make them fear to control their minds.

From another thread Police Militarization meets Hacker Culture: Swatting
This is a good example of using the same technology the government uses to screw citizens, to screw them back

[Horn]

Are we all queens in ivory towers, owning ourselves?

Without a clear understanding of what that is, the contract is null and void

Even the queen Palani would support that position. :)

The contract can never be made.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1I4Q6Px_78

[EE_]

My 'principles' are unchanging and consistent, Whether you agree with them or not. Self Ownership, Voluntaryism and the NAP. It doesnt surprise me that a Statist does not agree that these 3 principles are the foundation to a moral and just society. Can you please tell me what principles YOU advocate for?

I claim you have no principles at all. Im not even being rude, im making this judgment based off of many of your posts contradicting themselves left and right.



Okay, let's try this one more time.

You say you advocate "Self Ownership" yet you don't feel free to say what you want...and that is to kill, kill, kill all men that coerce by lies, force and threat of death. This includes police, anyone in government, and the financers of the world that collect money from you, just because.
A free man of self-ownership would clearly state his intent, not hide behind his words in fear.

Next, "Voluntaryism", is a beautiful thing...in theory. Our society will not permit this.
Back to kill kill kill again.

"Non-Aggression-Principle", another beautiful concept for some utopian world that doesn't exist.
It states non-aggression unless aggression is used on you. And since all who use aggression on you, are by threat of death. This principle implies you must use threat of death on the aggressor.
Again, police/law enforcement, government and the financial world, i.e. IRS etc.

So if you and these three principles are advocating killing the oppressors, you'd better get busy, you're plate is full of them and they're not going to stop coming at you.

Now for my principles.
I follow simple rules, Self-Ownership, Self-Preservation, and Self-Defense.
I feel I am more a free man then you, because I state what needs to be done, the trash must be taken out.

So you call yourself a free man, yet you are afraid to state the obvious...why do you suppose that is?
Do you fear the oppressors?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHe4OQ4bY4o

[mick silver]

I don't think depopulation agenda can be stop now singular . I think they have thought this out for many many years a head of us all

[singular_me]

while we seem kinda doomed, there is always a dim possibility for an unexpected event, such as few repentant globalists making a u-turn... dices are rolling...


I don't think depopulation agenda can be stop now singular . I think they have thought this out for many many years a head of us all

[Santa]

while we seem kinda doomed, there is always a dim possibility for an unexpected event, such as few repentant globalists making a u-turn... dices are rolling...

Saturn will need to get knocked off its current ecliptic rotation by the dark planet Nibiru for that to happen.

[iOWNme]

I'm just one guy. Even if I locked all doors and had all my guns ready, how many robbers could I stop? Think of the millions of people that are dependent on the government now. When they get cut off, what do you think they will do? You want an instant zombie apocalypse, that's how you get it.

So what your saying is that we need the current gang of violoent criminals because if we didnt, we would be over run by gangs of violent criminals? This is a contradiction. The reason why some people dont agree with me is not because they can actually rebut my position, its because i point out the contradictions inside their own heads and instead of admitting it to themselves, they resort to name calling and character assassinations.

You may think my position is wrong or could be harmful to you, but you cannot point out a single inconsistency or contradiction in Self Ownership, Voluntaryism and the NAP.


Sui, I like you and your posts always make me think. But, realistically, your ideals would only work in a society that has morality clearly defined. Morality has been so far distorted in our country, I think it's long gone.

'My ideals' are the EXACT SAME AS YOURS. Do you OWN yourself? (Self Ownership) Do you think other people should be able to FORCE you to bend to their will? (Voluntaryism) Do you think the INITIATION of violence is virtuous? (Non-aggression principle)

[iOWNme]

Maybe it's they that give government their power.

So now 'lazy and entitiled' people have power to give? If they had their own power, wouldnt they use it to produce and live life on their own?


The reality is we IMAGINE we have government,


Fixed it for you.

[iOWNme]

Okay, let's try this one more time.

You say you advocate "Self Ownership" yet you don't feel free to say what you want...and that is to kill, kill, kill all men that coerce by lies, force and threat of death. This includes police, anyone in government, and the financers of the world that collect money from you, just because.
A free man of self-ownership would clearly state his intent, not hide behind his words in fear.

What are you even talking about here? WHEN have i complained that i cant say what i want? Are you REALLY this dishonest?

Here is the real question: Would it be wrong for another man to violate your Body? (Self Ownership)



Next, "Voluntaryism", is a beautiful thing...in theory. Our society will not permit this.
Back to kill kill kill again.

Again, im lost. Are you saying that all people should be killed who violate this? Isnt there ANY other way of handling things without resorting to violence?

Here is the real question: Would it be wrong for another man to FORCE you to comply to his will? (Voluntaryism)



"Non-Aggression-Principle", another beautiful concept for some utopian world that doesn't exist.

So the NAP doesnt exist?

Here is the real question: Im coming by to use pro-active offensive violence against you for no reason. Are you going to resist me? Why would you resist me if its not bad to be the aggressor? (NAP)


It states non-aggression unless aggression is used on you. And since all who use aggression on you, are by threat of death. This principle implies you must use threat of death on the aggressor.
Again, police/law enforcement, government and the financial world, i.e. IRS etc.

So if you and these three principles are advocating killing the oppressors, you'd better get busy, you're plate is full of them and they're not going to stop coming at you.[/quote]

LOL. What has happened here is you have recognized your own internal contradictions, you realize you actually agree with me on almost EVERY point, but you still have this dangerous superstition stuck between your ears, which is why you resort to trying to prove my position wrong because i havent gone out and killed Cops. This is a tell tale sign that you have lost the debate, and cannot rationally and logically backup your own position. (Because it is chock full of contradictions.)


Now for my principles.
I follow simple rules, Self-Ownership, Self-Preservation, and Self-Defense.
I feel I am more a free man then you, because I state what needs to be done, the trash must be taken out.

You dont have any principles. And any principles you claim to have you are willing to subvert in order to feel 'safe'.


So you call yourself a free man, yet you are afraid to state the obvious...why do you suppose that is?
Do you fear the oppressors?

What am i afraid to state?


It seems your trying to find the difference between our positions. Here it is:

I comlpy out of fear, knowing i dont want to be killed by an illegitimate gang of violent criminals.
You comply out of fear, knowing you dont want to be killed by a legitmate gang of violent criminals.

You see, you MAGINE some sort of legitimacy where there is none. I do not.


'Freedom' ONLY exists in one single place. One of us understands this and has moved infinitely closer to it. And because 'Freedom' only exists inside your head, the other one hasnt moved an inch towards it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oPvAbP5DZ0

[iOWNme]

Should we report Carl to the AUTHORITY you have accepted here at gsus?

Are you asknig an Anarchist if he should report something to the 'Authorities'? No we shouldnt 'report' him. We should point out his contradcitions and give him a chance to recognize and correct them.


When you move into a country, you abide by that countries AUTHORITY rules
When you move into a state, you abide by the rules of the state AUTHORITY.
When you move into a city, same thing.
When you move into a internet community forum, you abide by the forum's AUTHORITY rules.



Do you accept these terms?

Im going to try and find the moral principle behind your statements. Im betting there isnt any.

Did i 'move' their voluntarily? Or was a simply 'born' into captivity?

[singular_me]

Saturn kicked off by Niburu! LOL... What do you make of Pluto :)

when I mention globalists, I am not thinking of those at the top at all... but that would be best if information was publicly released by insiders. I dont believe in protests anymore other than a massive scale of civil disobedience but that idea is even more utopian than that of the repentant insiders.

since Randomness exists, then something unexpected can always happen, even if it is 1 chance in a million.


Saturn will need to get knocked off its current ecliptic rotation by the dark planet Nibiru for that to happen.

[Hitch]

So what your saying is that we need the current gang of violoent criminals because if we didnt, we would be over run by gangs of violent criminals? This is a contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, it's honestly asking who is the bigger threat. Right now, I feel pretty free. Nobody bothers me, and though we have a lot of BS laws, I can live a simple peaceful life.

Here's the question an anarchist will never answer. Who protects my stuff when I am away at work?

Fact is, laws do keep people in line, they keep honest people honest. Remove them, and just 'see what happens'.

I think your ideals are the same as mine, but I'm thinking more logically about this. You post a lot of theory, and you are an idealist, but in reality there's a lot of animals out there. Ideally, we would just go back to constitutional law. Our forefathers were ahead of their time.

[EE_]

So now 'lazy and entitiled' people have power to give? If they had their own power, wouldnt they use it to produce and live life on their own?

Since the lazy and entitled are mostly liberal democrats they do have power in DC. They are one and the same that employ the corporate thugs. And no they don't want to live on their own anymore then a tick does.

Who is it that votes for the people, their friends in DC that force rules on the rest?
Who is it that begs their friends to give them more hand-outs?
Who is it that begs their friends in DC to give them more rights then others?

DC is full of lazy entitled people and they and their friends hire thugs to take what is yours, so they don't have to work for their own. Is this not power?

[EE_]

What are you even talking about here? WHEN have i complained that i cant say what i want? Are you REALLY this dishonest?

You missed the point. You've been preaching the non-aggression principle from day one, that any act of aggression or threat of death should be returned with same. But you won't state what that means, you won't use the actual words out of fear. I'm saying, you are advocating the killing of cops.
You certainly have never said or advocated submitting to them to preserve your life.
Have some balls and say what you mean!


Here is the real question: Would it be wrong for another man to violate your Body? (Self Ownership)
What the hell are you smoking?



Again, im lost. Are you saying that all people should be killed who violate this? Isnt there ANY other way of handling things without resorting to violence?
"Voluntaryism", is a principle where everything in society is voluntary, aka fantasyland. Isn't going to happen in yours or my lifetime. Pass the jay please....


Here is the real question: Would it be wrong for another man to FORCE you to comply to his will? (Voluntaryism)
More silliness. It's getting very hard to have a serious debate with you when you keep talking in circles of silliness.



So the NAP doesnt exist?
Sure it does, just say it out loud, "KILL THE COPS!" Don't hide behind fear, let the world know what you are trying to say!
Have some balls man!


Here is the real question: Im coming by to use pro-active offensive violence against you for no reason. Are you going to resist me? Why would you resist me if its not bad to be the aggressor? (NAP)
Depends, are you a cop coming by to use pro-active offensive violence against you for no reason?
That would leave me two options, submit, or use the IOM principle and shoot him in the face.



It states non-aggression unless aggression is used on you. And since all who use aggression on you, are by threat of death. This principle implies you must use threat of death on the aggressor.
Again, police/law enforcement, government and the financial world, i.e. IRS etc.

So if you and these three principles are advocating killing the oppressors, you'd better get busy, you're plate is full of them and they're not going to stop coming at you.


LOL. What has happened here is you have recognized your own internal contradictions, you realize you actually agree with me on almost EVERY point, but you still have this dangerous superstition stuck between your ears, which is why you resort to trying to prove my position wrong because i havent gone out and killed Cops. This is a tell tale sign that you have lost the debate, and cannot rationally and logically backup your own position. (Because it is chock full of contradictions.)
I've lost nothing.
I've asked you again and again from day one, once I no longer IMAGINE there's an 'Authority' (as you have preached) WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!
You would never answer this simple question. All I get from you is more silliness.




You dont have any principles. And any principles you claim to have you are willing to subvert in order to feel 'safe'.
You don't know me from Adam to make this statement. I'll tell you this, most of my life I've stood for what's right.
I've stood behind the under-dog and I was always the first to jump in when someone was being wronged, even at my own detriment or at the loss of my job.




What am i afraid to state?
Plenty, you seem riddled with fear.



It seems your trying to find the difference between our positions. Here it is:

I comlpy out of fear, knowing i dont want to be killed by an illegitimate gang of violent criminals.
You comply out of fear, knowing you dont want to be killed by a legitmate gang of violent criminals.
Wrong again! You comply out of fear, I comply out of self preservation. See the difference?


You see, you MAGINE some sort of legitimacy where there is none. I do not.
I don't imagine legitimacy, I see reality. You do not.


[COLOR=#ff0000][B]
'Freedom' ONLY exists in one single place. One of us understands this and has moved infinitely closer to it. And because 'Freedom' only exists inside your head, the other one hasnt moved an inch towards it.
You have proven to me I am more free then you will ever be. You hide in your little box of fear, I don't even own a little box like that.

[EE_]

Are you asknig an Anarchist if he should report something to the 'Authorities'? No we shouldnt 'report' him. We should point out his contradcitions and give him a chance to recognize and correct them.
I wouldn't expect you to report Carl, but next time just put it in caps so the gsus 'Authority' can spot it and act on it appropriately.

Your quote:
"THAT'S TWICE YOU HAVE RESORTED TO NAME CALLING and trying to put a label on me. Can you REALLY not debate your position without relying on these unintelligent tactics?

So what your saying is that you cant show me any form of 'Government' that is voluntary?

AGAIN, YOUR ENTIRE POSITION RESTS ON NAME CALLING AND CHARACTER ASSASSINATION."

*See, bold print will get the mods attention better too!



Im going to try and find the moral principle behind your statements. Im betting there isnt any.
You're a lousy gambler, you lost another bet. Stay out of Vegas, they'll eat you up.


Did i 'move' their voluntarily? Or was a simply 'born' into captivity?
You came freely to the gsus community acknowledging there is an 'Authority' that governs you.
Do you accept these terms?
Again, Do you accept these terms?

[singular_me]

linear thinking (what we have had for 4000+ years) is what led us to the abyss, hence cannot help make the case for voluntaryism

there are only two choices:

fear (coercion, lies, destruction, abuse, anxiety, etc)
and
love (non coercion, understanding, empathy, creativity, inner balance, etc)

just be careful what you wish for

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl4SRVXgGiI&list=RDNl4SRVXgGiI

Sorry.

[iOWNme]

It's not a contradiction, it's honestly asking who is the bigger threat. Right now, I feel pretty free. Nobody bothers me, and though we have a lot of BS laws, I can live a simple peaceful life.

Democide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide)

Explain to me how individual criminals like Charles Manson and Jeffery Dahmer are going to to more damage than 'Government' has in just the last 100 years. I have a MUCH better chance of defending myself (against the boogie man) when there is no restriction on my defense. Can you comprehend this? As it is now, i cant even defend myself against a violent man without having to spend thousands of dollars and years of my life trying to 'prove' it to the much larger violent gang. GACK. Ill take individual responsibility and the mere chance of being aggressed upon, rather than living my life as a 'constitutional' SLAVE.



Here's the question an anarchist will never answer. Who protects my stuff when I am away at work?

Ummmm.....You? LOL

Holy crap man get a grip. Who 'protects' your stuff right now while your at work? LOL Dude, its YOUR stuff. Be responsible. You can hire someone to watch it for you. You can ask your neighbor to watch it for you. You can lock it up, hide it or even move it if you have to, but good lord YOU have to be the one to do something. In an Anarchist 'utopia' there would be no 'ruling class', so there would be exactly NOBODY telling you how to take care of your stuff. It also means there would be no restriction on your options. Apparently you wouldnt survive in such an environment?

YOU cant advocate for ME to be robbed to 'protect' YOUR stuff, and have me see your point. LOL

AMAZING! I just answered the unanswerable question to a Statist! (To bad the answer was self responsibility). :)


Fact is, laws do keep people in line, they keep honest people honest. Remove them, and just 'see what happens'.

No they do not. 'Laws' turn otherwise good natured well intentioned people into violent monsters. Stop IMAGINING anything otherwise. Ive been debating people for years and i have YET to find 1 single person who will admit that if there werent 'laws' they would be out killing and stealing tomorrow. Not a SINGLE person. I bet YOU cant find one either. LOL You may find this link interesting:

Stockholm Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)



I think your ideals are the same as mine, but I'm thinking more logically about this. You post a lot of theory, and you are an idealist, but in reality there's a lot of animals out there. Ideally, we would just go back to constitutional law. Our forefathers were ahead of their time.

No, im philosophical and your practical. The problem is that in itself is a contradiction. You cannot subvert the principle of an idea, and then still try to cling to the same idea. The very idea of 'Government' is a contradiction. You cannot rob the people you are trying to protect from robbers and call it virtuous.

Think about that before you respond.

[iOWNme]

*See, bold print will get the mods attention better too!

LOL your stretching now man. How old are you?







You came freely to the gsus community acknowledging there is an 'Authority' that governs you.
Do you accept these terms?
Again, Do you accept these terms?

Yes i voluntarily joined this forum. Nope, i never read the 'rules', because frankly i dont care about the 'rules'. I have a free will and conscience. Those are the things that guide me and how i treat others. I dont allow other people to tell me how to behave. I figure it out on my own. I know, its a crazy idea. And guess what, after years of posting i have never been warned or banned. How did i make it past all the GSUS 'Authority' if i didnt even read their scribbles?

(Nice try though. Maybe you should just throw in the white towel? LOL)

[Hitch]

Ummmm.....You? LOL

Holy crap man get a grip. Who 'protects' your stuff right now while your at work? LOL Dude, its YOUR stuff. Be responsible. You can hire someone to watch it for you. You can ask your neighbor to watch it for you. You can lock it up, hide it or even move it if you have to, but good lord YOU have to be the one to do something. In an Anarchist 'utopia' there would be no 'ruling class', so there would be exactly NOBODY telling you how to take care of your stuff. It also means there would be no restriction on your options. Apparently you wouldnt survive in such an environment?

YOU cant advocate for ME to be robbed to 'protect' YOUR stuff, and have me see your point. LOL

What you fail to comprehend, is that I like laws, because laws hold people accountable for their actions.

No, I can't protect my stuff while I'm at work. That's a fact. When I am at work, I am physically not anywhere near my stuff, and that is a fact. All I can hope, is that if someone takes from me they are guilty of a CRIME. See, CRIME. I'll say that again.

If someone takes from me, I would like to charge them with a crime. That means a law.

Do you honestly want me to believe your BS? How can you expect me to be in two places as the same time?

If I could sit at home with a gun in my hand every single day, thumping my chest, yes I might start agreeing with you.

[iOWNme]

I'm saying, you are advocating the killing of cops.


There is no such thing a a 'Cop'. There are only individuals doing right or doing wrong. I am advocating that any indivdual has the moral right to use defensive violence when they are being aggressed upon. Do you disagree with me?



"Voluntaryism", is a principle where everything in society is voluntary, aka fantasyland. Isn't going to happen in yours or my lifetime. Pass the jay please....

Do you think there were people telling the Founders that their ideas were a 'fantasy land' at the time? I dont care who is going to pick the fucking cotton, SLAVERY IS IMMORAL!



More silliness. It's getting very hard to have a serious debate with you when you keep talking in circles of silliness.

Calling something silly, instead of answering it doesnt change it.


Depends, are you a cop coming by to use pro-active offensive violence against you for no reason?
That would leave me two options, submit, or use the IOM principle and shoot him in the face.

So when you see a uniform you IMAGINE he is something other than just an individual? What im trying to get you to see is that if people didnt see a uniform and cringe instead of defending themselves, this world would be a lot nicer place. Do you disagree with me?



I've asked you again and again from day one, once I no longer IMAGINE there's an 'Authority' (as you have preached) WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!
You would never answer this simple question. All I get from you is more silliness.

'Government' is the monopoly on the initiation of violence. Why do you think the entire world would crumble if we just removed this one single thing? See, you dont even understand Anarchy because you dont want to. The ONLY thing that would change is that there would be no group of mortal men who people IMAGINE to have the 'Authority' to alter human morality. I dont think that helps. Do you disagree with me?




You don't know me from Adam to make this statement. I'll tell you this, most of my life I've stood for what's right.
I've stood behind the under-dog and I was always the first to jump in when someone was being wronged, even at my own detriment or at the loss of my job.

I have no doubt you have. 'Government' gets away with all of its brutalities because of good natured well intentioned people who IMAGINE something that isnt real. Ive never said you are a bad person, nor have i ever personally attacked you. I merely bash you over the head with philosophy.



Wrong again! You comply out of fear, I comply out of self preservation. See the difference?

Self preservation = afraid to die



I don't imagine legitimacy,

Is there ANY form of 'legitimate' 'Government'?



You have proven to me I am more free then you will ever be. You hide in your little box of fear, I don't even own a little box like that.


The ULTIMATE CONTRADICTION is unearthed:

You have no fears, but you think we need a 'Government'. Can you tell me why? (If you tell me why your going to shine a bright light on YOUR FEARS). LOL

[Hitch]

There is no such thing a a 'Cop'. There are only individuals doing right or doing wrong. I am advocating that any indivdual has the moral right to use defensive violence when they are being aggressed upon. Do you disagree with me?

What a bunch of BS.

Do you really think most folks have the same morality as you do? What you are claiming to be moral, is laws.

A LAW is a morality forced upon us. Think about that. I bet you support more "laws" than you claim to be against.

[iOWNme]

What you fail to comprehend, is that I like laws, because laws hold people accountable for their actions.

What you fail to comprehend is there is no such thing as 'Law'. There are only threats of violence. 'Laws' dont do shit to a bank robber, but a good man with a gun does.


No, I can't protect my stuff while I'm at work. That's a fact. When I am at work, I am physically not anywhere near my stuff, and that is a fact. All I can hope, is that if someone takes from me they are guilty of a CRIME. See, CRIME. I'll say that again.

If someone takes from me, I would like to charge them with a crime. That means a law.

Do you honestly want me to believe your BS? How can you expect me to be in two places as the same time?

If I could sit at home with a gun in my hand every single day, thumping my chest, yes I might start agreeing with you.

I gave you like 5 options of what you could do. I even mentioned friends and neighbors. Heck i may even help you because i help people all the time. You absolutely HATE self responsibility dont you? LOL

[Dogman]

Anarchy is what the world had, way back in the past. The strongest ruled, and took what they wanted and made the rules.

That were dictated to the weaker ones on the land!

That is how today's kingdoms, kings and queens were made, by a liberal spreading of bloodshed and killing , taking what they wanted if they had the power to do it.

Now the cure is take two psycho's rub them together and put them in a box and forget them.

[Hitch]

What you fail to comprehend is there is no such thing as 'Law'. There are only threats of violence. 'Laws' dont do shit to a bank robber, but a good man with a gun does.

oh oh OH! Laws protect the good man with a gun! WTF is wrong with you? Law, allows a good person to defend themselves from violence.

In your existence, there are no morals, there are no rules. The biggest dog survives.

[Hitch]

I gave you like 5 options of what you could do. I even mentioned friends and neighbors. Heck i may even help you because i help people all the time. You absolutely HATE self responsibility dont you? LOL

You can't comprehend a simple fact. I can't be two places at one time. You can't be two places at one time. Nobody can. I love self responsibility. You want me to be responsible for the actions of every turd and animal roaming loose out there.

I can't be responsible for them, nor is it your place to ask that of me.

[EE_]

iOWNme, your story has completely fallen apart. You haven't provide one good example of an actual working model in today's society. I've come to the conclusion you're as nutty as your hero Larken Rose, who incidently, is as crazy as a shithout rat.
I will give Larken some credit though, he sucked you out of your hard earned money on his silly videos. I'm sure you display them proudly next to your 'Josey the Outlaw' T-shirt and books. Another shithouse rat.
I'm done!
EE out

[Dogman]

iOWNme, your story has completely fallen apart. You haven't provide one good example of an actual working model in today's society. I've come to the conclusion you're as nutty as your hero Larken Rose, who incedently, is as crazy as a shithout rat.
I will give Larken some credit though, he sucked you out of your hard earned money on his silly videos. I'm sure you display them proudly next to your 'Josey the Outlaw' T-shirt and books. Another shithouse rat.
I'm done!
EE out


Out of this one also,

It is always strange that if you ask for a "working" example of what some here believe and say how we should live, ignoring the reality of real life, are working on a utopian theory and they start dodging/weaving and attacking the ones that question.

There are dreams, and living, walking, talking real life! That anyone that tries to do what some here say they believe and say how they live and what they believe will end up in confinement, see rooms built with a bunch of concert and steel doors that slam, and pay huge legal bills and end up where they began but labeled as a "nut"!

Out also, some are seeing in their minds but blind to the real world.

But it is fun reading what they spout, knowing if they tried it it probably would end badly for them..

Nuff said on this one.

They never give any working examples that are real and not fanticy.

[Hitch]

Out also. Not interested in a circle jerk fantasy.

A real system, a working system, I think is what we all want. Results. Would love to see a working example, but all I see is more rights taken away from me. More freedoms lost. We've lost enough, already.

[BrewTech]

It's not a contradiction, it's honestly asking who is the bigger threat. Right now, I feel pretty free. Nobody bothers me, and though we have a lot of BS laws, I can live a simple peaceful life.

Here's the question an anarchist will never answer. Who protects my stuff when I am away at work?

Fact is, laws do keep people in line, they keep honest people honest. Remove them, and just 'see what happens'.

I think your ideals are the same as mine, but I'm thinking more logically about this. You post a lot of theory, and you are an idealist, but in reality there's a lot of animals out there. Ideally, we would just go back to constitutional law. Our forefathers were ahead of their time.

BULLSHIT.

LAWS do not keep me honest. MORAL PRINCIPLE, that I was born with and have maintained throughout my life, keeps me honest.

Do you really believe what you wrote??

Yikes...

There was a reason why I took a break from this place... unfortunately I have a really bad way of forgetting things. I think this thread might be a reminder of why I need to find something else to do with my time.

[singular_me]

I think you are confusing barbarism with anarchy :)

when humans mimic animals they dont become like them but turn into engines of destruction



Anarchy is what the world had, way back in the past. The strongest ruled, and took what they wanted and made the rules.

That were dictated to the weaker ones on the land!

That is how today's kingdoms, kings and queens were made, by a liberal spreading of bloodshed and killing , taking what they wanted if they had the power to do it.

Now the cure is take two psycho's rub them together and put them in a box and forget them.

[EE_]

BULLSHIT.

LAWS do not keep me honest. MORAL PRINCIPLE, that I was born with and have maintained throughout my life, keeps me honest.

Do you really believe what you wrote??

Yikes...

There was a reason why I took a break from this place... unfortunately I have a really bad way of forgetting things. I think this thread might be a reminder of why I need to find something else to do with my time.

Now hold on there just a minute Baba Looey!
There is some truth to what Hitch says.
I know you are a fine upstanding principled man, that's what I like about you...but what about those other guys that aren't?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110516141236/ideas/images/0/04/Baba_Looey.jpg

[Hitch]

BULLSHIT.

LAWS do not keep me honest. MORAL PRINCIPLE, that I was born with and have maintained throughout my life, keeps me honest.

Do you really believe what you wrote??

Yikes...

There was a reason why I took a break from this place... unfortunately I have a really bad way of forgetting things. I think this thread might be a reminder of why I need to find something else to do with my time.

You I trust. EE I trust. Unfortunately most of the population, I don't.

I don't believe our society has much moral principle, sadly. I think there's just a bunch of animals, predators, ready to pounce.

I didn't believe all that, until I was a cop in the ghetto.

I wish I was as optimistic as you folks.

[Carl]

Most individuals you can trust, it's people you gotta watch out for...

The only difference between iOWNme's and Marx's vision of a stateless Utopia is that Marx understood that the populous had to be indoctrinated and culled first, before they could be trusted with single minded, self sacrificing rule.

[EE_]

I'll give you an example of a law in Santa Ana, California.

A law was passed in Santa Ana to prohibit alcohol consumption in your front yard.
Did they do this for you and I?
In case someone here doesn't know, Santa Ana is a very Mexican city...and Mexicans love to party in their front yards.
They don't party in pairs, they party in large groups and big families.
Well neighbors were not crazy about the parties of Mexicans stumbling around the front yard singing "Ai Yi Yi Yi...I am the Fritos Bandito" and peeing in the bushes.

Some of the more timid neighbors didn't want to confront the peeing in the shrubs singing Mexicans in fear of a situation that may cause them and their families harm and they were worried their children should not see this display.
(Face it, not everyone is bad to the bone as you, me and hitch, and willing to confront the unruley Mexicans with "hey, shut the fuck up over there you drunken fuck Mexicans, before I come over there and shut you guys up myself!...and stop peeing on my bushes maricones!")

So they complained to the city, enough so a law was passed. This law allowed the popo to cite or tell the drinking singing and peeing Mexicans to take it in the back yard and to quit peeing on the neighbors bushes. Which they otherwise could not do if no law was being broken.

My question: is this law justified?

fyi, I lived in Santa Ana for several years, I thought the parties were fun.
But they really should be kept in the back yard.

Olé!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ov-e88p12EQ/UgnQkMAzfxI/AAAAAAAAID0/xJwdOYU_B48/s1600/mariachi+band+wireless+festival.jpg

Another Santa Ana laws was passed stating no more then 26 Mexicans can live in a single family home. They were finding more then 50! I remember one home they found 56 one time. Imagine how many times the toilet got flushed in one night? That's a lot of Tecate beer and burritos going down the pipe.
There was some formula I think, on how many could sleep in one bedroom...like maybe 8? lol

[Horn]

iOWNme, first you need to become a politician or police officer before you can neglect laws, then set an example for others.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dB_ubVAnGw

[singular_me]

The no-party-in-front-yard law is actually irrational.. it is just another law invented as a consequence. By never addressing the *root cause* and adding layers of laws, chaos comes this way. It also is collectivism applied since elite control invades more and more people's lives. Supporting laws such as 'the no-party-in-front-yard's' is deeply immoral and even a crime as it contributes to xenophobia, and xenophobia may lead to violence.

"yeah people are inherently bad, we can't trust them ???" ROFLOL

lets get real:

Most Mexicans/Latinos wouldnt be in America if their countries' economy hadnt been massacred by the so-called free trade agreements and Goldman-Sacks and co.
DC people have also made sure that immigration LAWS lead to the increasing numbers of illegals.... I could go on and on, but you know enough to figure out what Id say next.

This is an example among many. My guess is that up to 85-90% of laws are not only completely *useless* but are so subtly coercive that people become resentful and start hating each other, which makes it even easier to force upon them more stupidity such as codes of conduct and government programs. Isnt the army considering recruiting illegals lately? It has gone so far that now they are attempting to create a new human-hybrid species.

Laws have always been designed to fuel psychic wars of all kinds. 6000 years of historical records prove this. Hitch, if I recall well, was asking to come with an example that voluntaryism could work. There are NONE as societies have always have been subjected to monopolies (economic, religious, scientific). This question alone is kinda dishonest to start with.

Voluntarysim only takes into account Objective Reality and the morality deriving from it... On the other hand, Subjective Reality is what has caused all the laws that are now choking us to death. Anyone really serious about overcoming the NWO should really ponder the nature of Reality first.

One thing is certain though, Subjective Reality will lead our species to Oblivion. But wait, maybe that was the elite plan all along considering the depopulation agenda in place?

There is no such thing as "my reality vs yours" (and as we can see, such debates lead nowhere but frustrations), it is about the understanding that there is a Greater Reality encompassing all sub-realities.

Time to wake up folks, we have been had big time. It just depends on how much we can let go... that's the only real battle out there. The NWO just incarnates the mother of all challenges within us... this is an holographic situation we are dealing with... the NWO IS EACH OF US... THIS IS THE SHABBY SECRET OF FREEMASONRY... using perceptions as deceptions against us

Gosh, I am glad that I dug the rabbit hole.

[EE_]

The no-party-in-front-yard law is actually irrational.. it is just another law invented as a consequences. By never addressing the *root cause* and adding layers of laws, chaos comes this way. It also is collectivism applied since elite control invades more and more people's lives. Supporting laws such as 'the no-party-in-front-yard's' is deeply immoral and perhaps a crime as it contributes to xenophobia, and xenophobia may lead to violence.

"yeah people are inherently bad, we can't trust them ???" ROFLOL

lets get real:

Most Mexicans/Latinos wouldnt be in America if their countries' economy hadnt been massacred by the so-called free trade agreements and Goldman-Sacks and co.
DC people have also made sure that immigration LAWS lead to the increasing numbers of illegals.... I could go on and on, but you know enough to figure out what Id say next.

This is an example among many. My guess is that up to 85-90% of laws are not only completely *useless* but are so subtly coercive that people become resentful and start hating each other, which makes it even easier to force upon them more stupidity such as codes of conduct and government programs. Isnt the army considering recruiting illegals lately?

Laws have always been designed to fuel psychic wars of all kinds. 6000 years of historic records prove this. Hitch, if I recall well, was asking to come with an example that voluntaryism could work. There are NONE as societies have always have be subjected to monopolies (economic, religious, scientific). This question alone is kinda dishonest to start with.

Voluntarysim only takes into account Objective Reality and the morality deriving from it... On the other hand, Subjective Reality is what has caused all the laws that are now choking us to death. Anyone really serious about overcoming the NWO should really ponder the nature of Reality first.

One thing is certain though, Subjective Reality will lead our species to Oblivion. But wait, maybe that was the elite plan all along considering the depopulation agenda in place?

There is no such thing as "my reality vs yours" (and as we can see, such debates lead nowhere but frustrations), it is about the understanding that there is a Greater Reality encompassing all sub-realities.

Time to wake up folks, we have been had big time. It just depends on how much we can let go... that the only real battle out there. The NWO just incarnates the mother of all challenges... this is an holographic situation we are dealing with

I agree these laws are a slippery slope. They are treating the symptoms without addressing the root cause.


One thing is certain though, Subjective Reality will lead our species to Oblivion.

Maybe it's just the natural order of man?
We/man will certainly finish ourselves off, that you can be sure of. A new cycle will begin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vaLi9W6HRc

[singular_me]

EE, get real... all this is happening because people wont take responsibility for their own actions.

considering that they are working very hard on a new human-hybrid species, what LAWS are you actually defending? That of being eradicated? That is what Objective Reality is telling us...

Any new cycle will not bring about change but the same challenges, and with no different outcome if the latter remain unaddressed.



I agree these laws are a slippery slope. They are treating the symptoms without addressing the root cause.
Maybe it's just the natural order of man?
We/man will certainly finish ourselves off, that you can be sure of. A new cycle will begin.

[iOWNme]

Anarchy is what the world had, way back in the past. The strongest ruled, and took what they wanted and made the rules.

What you just described is 'Government'. How can you not see that?

This is one of the most insane contradictions Statist have: If we have Anarchy (no rulers), we will eventually have 'Government' (IMAGINED rulers). Contradiction much?

[iOWNme]

You can't comprehend a simple fact. I can't be two places at one time. You can't be two places at one time. Nobody can. I love self responsibility. You want me to be responsible for the actions of every turd and animal roaming loose out there.

I can't be responsible for them, nor is it your place to ask that of me.

Are you fucking STUPID?

1)I said you could hire another person to watch your stuff. 2) I said you could ask a neighbor to watch it. 3) I said you could ask a friend to watch it. 4) I said you could ask a family member to watch it. Yet, you CONTINUE to parrot something about not being able to be in 2 places at the same time.

You are a DISHONEST poster, and i will not waste another minute of my time with you.

Toodles,

[iOWNme]

iOWNme, your story has completely fallen apart. You haven't provide one good example of an actual working model in today's society. I've come to the conclusion you're as nutty as your hero Larken Rose, who incidently, is as crazy as a shithout rat.
I will give Larken some credit though, he sucked you out of your hard earned money on his silly videos. I'm sure you display them proudly next to your 'Josey the Outlaw' T-shirt and books. Another shithouse rat.

LOL

Character assassinations, strawman arguements and ad-hominem attacks. Should i be surprised coming from you?


I'm done!
EE out


Why did YOU start this thread then smarty?

[iOWNme]

Out of this one also,

It is always strange that if you ask for a "working" example of what some here believe and say how we should live, ignoring the reality of real life, are working on a utopian theory and they start dodging/weaving and attacking the ones that question.

Can YOU give me a 'working' example of ANY form of 'Government' that didnt PLUNDER its 'citizens' to pay for its 'protection'?


There are dreams, and living, walking, talking real life! That anyone that tries to do what some here say they believe and say how they live and what they believe will end up in confinement, see rooms built with a bunch of concert and steel doors that slam, and pay huge legal bills and end up where they began but labeled as a "nut"!

I totally agree with you. Now, will you IMAGINE some sort of 'legitimacy' behind the men who lock you up?






They never give any working examples that are real and not fanticy.[/QUOTE]

Where is your 'working' example of a virtuous 'Government'?

[EE_]

EE, get real... all this is happening because people wont take responsibility for their own actions.
Yes, that's what people are, that's what they do!


considering that they are working very hard on a new human-hybrid species, what LAWS are you actually defending? That of being eradicated? That is what Objective Reality is telling us...
The natural law, the natural order of man to destroy himself. The beauty part is that those creating the new human-hybrid species are destroying themselves too! No one is getting out of this alive. Many civilizations have vanished throughout history. What's different this time?


Any new cycle will not bring about change but the same challenges, and with no different outcome if the latter remain unaddressed.
The question is, what is the new cycle?
http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/soap2.jpg

Maybe all that is needed, is faith in our creator.
We are here for such a short time that when you stand back to look at it, it becomes meaningless.
And time is only a man made invention, time does not exist in the universe, because it's infinate with no beginning or end. In the universe, events change, but time is static.
Is it really that important for man to survive for such a small speck of time?
Maybe it's all just an illusion?

[iOWNme]

Out also. Not interested in a circle jerk fantasy.

Then why have you made numerous posts here and wasted your time?

A real system, a working system, I think is what we all want. Results. Would love to see a working example, but all I see is more rights taken away from me. More freedoms lost. We've lost enough, already.[/QUOTE]

THERE IS NO SYSTEM!

There are only individuals each with their own free will and conscience. PLEASE tell me how your going to come up with some type of central 'system' that will allow individuals to live their lives using their own free will and conscience. ITS IMPOSSIBLE.

Just like EVERY other form of 'centralized' systems ALWAYS lead to the subversion of the individual. Whether it is an 'economic' system, a 'political' system, or a 'school system'.

[iOWNme]

N
I know you are a fine upstanding principled man, that's what I like about you...but what about those other guys that aren't?



So the bad guys who wont live by principles, but they will live by the scribbles of 'politicians'. How many contradictions do you have inside your own head?

[iOWNme]

Most individuals you can trust, it's people you gotta watch out for...

The only difference between iOWNme's and Marx's vision of a stateless Utopia is that Marx understood that the populous had to be indoctrinated and culled first, before they could be trusted with single minded, self sacrificing rule.

LOL

Ive read Marx das Kapital and the 10 Planks. Ive read Engles writings as well. I cant find one single time they ever advocated for Self Ownership, Voluntaryism and the NAP. These 3 things are like Kryptonite to ALL Forms of 'Government'.

Either show me where they advocated for these things, or admit you are a liar.

[BrewTech]

I'll give you an example of a law in Santa Ana, California.

A law was passed in Santa Ana to prohibit alcohol consumption in your front yard.
Did they do this for you and I?
In case someone here doesn't know, Santa Ana is a very Mexican city...and Mexicans love to party in their front yards.
They don't party in pairs, they party in large groups and big families.
Well neighbors were not crazy about the parties of Mexicans stumbling around the front yard singing "Ai Yi Yi Yi...I am the Fritos Bandito" and peeing in the bushes.

Some of the more timid neighbors didn't want to confront the peeing in the shrubs singing Mexicans in fear of a situation that may cause them and their families harm and they were worried their children should not see this display.
(Face it, not everyone is bad to the bone as you, me and hitch, and willing to confront the unruley Mexicans with "hey, shut the fuck up over there you drunken fuck Mexicans, before I come over there and shut you guys up myself!...and stop peeing on my bushes maricones!")

So they complained to the city, enough so a law was passed. This law allowed the popo to cite or tell the drinking singing and peeing Mexicans to take it in the back yard and to quit peeing on the neighbors bushes. Which they otherwise could not do if no law was being broken.

My question: is this law justified?

fyi, I lived in Santa Ana for several years, I thought the parties were fun.
But they really should be kept in the back yard.

Olé!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ov-e88p12EQ/UgnQkMAzfxI/AAAAAAAAID0/xJwdOYU_B48/s1600/mariachi+band+wireless+festival.jpg

Another Santa Ana laws was passed stating no more then 26 Mexicans can live in a single family home. They were finding more then 50! I remember one home they found 56 one time. Imagine how many times the toilet got flushed in one night? That's a lot of Tecate beer and burritos going down the pipe.
There was some formula I think, on how many could sleep in one bedroom...like maybe 8? lol

Therein is where the problem lies. Most people are all for one group using force against another group, as long as the force applied results in a benefit for them. Then they have the nerve to bitch when that same force is turned around on them, which is inevitable.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have."

~some mildly observant person

[Horn]

Maybe all that is needed, is faith in our creator.

That and traffic signals, I'm not going to drive anywhere in all voluntary city intersections.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlgDFJbPXyM

[BrewTech]

That and traffic signals, I'm not going to drive anywhere in all voluntary city intersections.

They are already voluntary. I can choose to ignore a traffic signal whenever I want. Maybe impenetrable force fields should be used?

[Horn]

They are already voluntary. I can choose to ignore a traffic signal whenever I want. Maybe impenetrable force fields should be used?

A strong and balanced Republic would never rely on such covetous means.

Don't you want to be a participant in my republic? we need designated cattle crossings also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsqdIBlKapo

^^^^:):):)^^^^

[EE_]

They are already voluntary. I can choose to ignore a traffic signal whenever I want. Maybe impenetrable force fields should be used?

Ahhh, so now we've introduced the laws of physics!

http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1393/88/1393881448439.jpg

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/WfjqMuR8oYo/hqdefault.jpg

[Hitch]

Are you fucking STUPID?

1)I said you could hire another person to watch your stuff. 2) I said you could ask a neighbor to watch it. 3) I said you could ask a friend to watch it. 4) I said you could ask a family member to watch it. Yet, you CONTINUE to parrot something about not being able to be in 2 places at the same time.

You are a DISHONEST poster, and i will not waste another minute of my time with you.

Toodles,

For someone who chants for a non aggressive principle, you certainly are getting aggressive with me.

Instead of posting attacks, how about addressing some of the arguments posted in this thread. Such as EE's Santa Ana example. Or even Horn's traffic light example, how would volunteerism work with a bunch of drivers meeting at an intersection where everyone thought they had the right of way?

[BrewTech]

For someone who chants for a non aggressive principle, you certainly are getting aggressive with me.

Instead of posting attacks, how about addressing some of the arguments posted in this thread. Such as EE's Santa Ana example. Or even Horn's traffic light example, how would volunteerism work with a bunch of drivers meeting at an intersection where everyone thought they had the right of way?

Do you only stop at an intersection because a sign suggests that you do?

I've encountered many intersections with no signage at all. I've noticed it doesn't change the way I approach the situation.

I stop to make sure my person and property stays intact, BUUUUT that's just me.

I guess if one relies only others' dictate to be able to continue to make common sense decisions regarding their OWN safety, it's no wonder we have what we have.

[Horn]

Do you only stop at an intersection because a sign suggests that you do?

I've encountered many intersections with no signage at all. I've noticed it doesn't change the way I approach the situation.

Where's Book when you need him? :)

[Horn]

Better yet, if Book, brewtech, iOwnme, and EE_ were all stopped at an intersection,

who would have the right of way?

[EE_]

Do you only stop at an intersection because a sign suggests that you do?

I've encountered many intersections with no signage at all. I've noticed it doesn't change the way I approach the situation.

I stop to make sure my person and property stays intact, BUUUUT that's just me.

I guess if one relies only others' dictate to be able to continue to make common sense decisions regarding their OWN safety, it's no wonder we have what we have.

Man I wish everyone was like you...but unfortunately they are not.
Some have the common sense of a fence post. Some just need to be led.

http://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/8674519/disp/b8da7b7c66398461e265a856992dc4a6.jpg

[Hitch]

Do you only stop at an intersection because a sign suggests that you do?

I've encountered many intersections with no signage at all. I've noticed it doesn't change the way I approach the situation.

I stop to make sure my person and property stays intact, BUUUUT that's just me.

I guess if one relies only others' dictate to be able to continue to make common sense decisions regarding their OWN safety, it's no wonder we have what we have.

Brewtech, if every car stopped at every intersection, the traffic would be gridlock. Nobody would get anywhere. There's also the point that traffic lights keep the flow of traffic moving safely and smoothly.

So, some laws can be viewed the same way. To keep things defined, clear, so the flow of people through life moves smoothly.

[Hitch]

Better yet, if Book, brewtech, iOwnme, and EE_ were all stopped at an intersection,

who would have the right of way?

iOWNme would be in the middle of the intersection yelling at everyone.

[EE_]

Better yet, if Book, brewtech, iOwnme, and EE_ were all stopped at an intersection,

who would have the right of way?

Book would jump out of his car and hold a up a picture with a witty title.
brewtech would get out and direct traffic
EE would be laughing his ass off at Book's picture and brewtech trying to direct a bunch of morons
iOWNme would turn around an go another way because he will not IMAGINE brewtech is an 'Authorty' and he would want no part of it.

[Horn]

So, some laws can be viewed the same way. To keep things defined, clear, so the flow of people through life moves smoothly.

If we setup society on the ocean,

we wouldn't have to worry about the damaging after effects of someone running a red light.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLXvATxHHiQ

Just creeps droppin in on ya'

[Hitch]

Just creeps droppin in on ya'

Kooks, Horn, they are called kooks.

Brilliant example though. Say, society was set up like surfing. Surfing really is the best example of voluntaryism there is. There was no written laws, but simply etiquette to follow that's more or less common sense. Such as don't drop in on someone. Respect someone's place in the line up, etc.

However, a lot of folks break the NAP with kooks, and go "agro" on them if they do something stupid or dangerous.

[Horn]

Kooks, Horn, they are called kooks.

Those dudes are wearing long sleeve flannel for surfing, no they're creeps.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08i012EnqgE

[Horn]

"1983 (A Merman I Should Turn To Be)"

Hurrah i awake from yesterday
alive but the war is here to stay
so my love catherina and me
decide to take our last walk
through the noise to the sea
not to die but to be re-born
away from a land so battered and torn....
forever...

oh say can you see its really such a mess
every inch of earth is a fighting nest
giant pencil and lip-stick tube shaped things
continue to rain and cause screaming pain
and the arctic stains from silver blue to bloody red
as our feet find the sand and the sea is strait ahead..
strait ahead.....

well its too bad
that our friends
cant be with us today
well thats too bad
"the machine
that we built
would never save us"
thats what they say
(thats why they aint coming with us today)
and they also said
"its impossible for man
to live and breath underwater..
forever" was their main complaint
(yeah)

and they also threw this in my face:
they said
anyway
you know good well
it would be beyond the will of God
and the grace of the King
(grace of the King yeah yeah)

so my darling and I
make love in the sand
to salute the last moment
ever on dry land
our machine has done its work
played its part well
without a scratch on our bodies
and we bid it farewell

starfish and giant foams
greet us with a smile
before our heads go under
we take a last look
at the killing noise
of the out of style...
the out of style, out of style

SO DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN WE GO
HURRY MY DARLIN' WE MUSTN'T BE LATE
FOR THE SHOW
NEPTUNE CHAMPION GAMES TO AN AQUA WORLD IS SO MY DEAR
RIGHT THIS WAY SMILES A MERMAID
I CAN HEAR ATLANTIS FULL OF CHEER
ATLANTIS FULL OF CHEER
I CAN HEAR ATLANTIS FULL OF CHEER
OH YEAH

[EE_]

Why are there so many laws in California? Because there's always someone infringing on and disrespecting other people's property rights and fucking things up for everyone else.
Even the liberal mayor of this city can't be trusted to respect other's property.

California Mayor Caught Tossing Dog Poop on Neighbor's Lawn
by Joel B. Pollak 10 Jun 2014, 7:26 AM PDT 27

The mayor of San Marino, a small, wealthy community in Los Angeles county where the median income is near $140k per year, was caught on camera tossing dog excrement on his neighbor's lawn, local news sources report.
Home surveillance video shows Mayor Dennis Kneier tossing a bag, later found to be dog excrement, on Philip Lao's lawn as he walks by. The mayor claims that he picked the bag up and put it on Lao's property in order to replace it there. He also criticized Lao's "No Dog Poop" sign, according to the local NBC News affiliate.

However, Lao says that the mayor may have been retaliating for his opposition to a dog park proposal.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-California/2014/06/10/California-Mayor-Caught-Tossing-Dog-Poop-on-Neighbor-s-Lawn

[singular_me]

unless it is a tongue in the cheek, EE, I am sorry you fall for the mayor-poop distraction/psyop while WW3 is building up (and much worse)....

Id prefer to pick a few dog poops on my lawn and live in a world at peace. Without NWO and resorting to diplomacy with dog owners :)

case proven: Subjective Reality is going to engulf us all

here is another one for you EE
UK Plan to raise motorway speeding fines to £10,000
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10887161/Maximum-motorway-speeding-fine-set-to-rocket-to-10000.html

[EE_]

unless it is a tongue in the cheek, EE, I am sorry you fall for the mayor-poop distraction/psyop while WW3 is building up (and much worse)....

Id prefer to pick a few dog poops on my lawn and live in a world at peace. Without NWO and resorting to diplomacy with dog owners :)

case proven: Subjective Reality is going to engulf us all

Yes, I stepped right into the dog poop distraction, so to speak :)

Isn't subjective reality based on us all having our own reality and how we each view the world differently.
You see WW3 coming as bad (and much worse)...
I see it as the natural order of things, sort of our destiny.

You also, through your own reality, wish to live in a "world at peace". Do you really think it is possible for all of us?...or would it be more reasonable for you to live in your own reality of a world at peace?

How long do you think our civilization should exist?

A lot of people think it is of dire importantance that man must live forever and anything that threatens our existance is to be feared. This is their subjective reality.

My reality sees us and our planet as tiny little specks unimportant to an infinate universe.

[Horn]

My reality sees us and our planet as tiny little specks unimportant to an infinate universe.

OMG, you really need to get your principled from JQP.

[BrewTech]

Book would jump out of his car and hold a up a picture with a witty title.
brewtech would get out and direct traffic
EE would be laughing his ass off at Book's picture and brewtech try to direct a bunch of morons
iOWNme would turn around an go another way because he will not IMAGINE brewtech is an 'Authorty' and he would want no part of it.

LOL that's actually pretty good...

[Horn]

First off, we need to differentiate between style and principles.

Without being explicitly clear and defined thru natural laws there, we will forever be trapped in trying to be takin seriously while wearing plaid pants, or long sleeve flannel while surfing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp6LT2MdaPI