PDA

View Full Version : American wood homes in fact very poor quality (Jim Stone)



PatColo
12th June 2014, 06:11 PM
What do y'all think of Jim's theory here? I grew up in Calif, and wood framed houses were said to withstand earthquakes better. But in tornado alley? I can attest that in the parts of latin america and asia that I've seen, the structures are brick/mortar/rebar. One reason I heard for that was that they don't rot in the higher precip/humidity. Jim's theory seems to hinge on a "planned obsolescence" angle, and that wood homes are far less defensible against gov/mil, should the resident "go rogue". Here tis:


May 25 2014
American homes in fact very poor quality

Permalink (http://jimstonefreelance.com/crappywood.html)

This is an old rant of mine, but I really think people need to wake up on this topic. There is absolutely no excuse or reason to construct a home with wood. Yet when you look through the building codes in place all across America, wood is predominantly the only thing allowed even in tornado zones and I beg to question why. Actually, I have the answer but I will get to that later, and the answer came from a building contractor in Utah. The answer is cold hard proof of why you can't construct a home in America out of solid concrete.


http://eastwickpress.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/h-fire-n-hoosick.jpg

First of all, if safety was really a concern, wood homes would be banned. There would be no need for ridiculous fire codes if homes were built of concrete. Yet every night, Americans go to sleep in homes that could burn to the ground overnight, or be blown away by a storm, and there is absolutely no reason for it.


In Mexico, people never worry about home fires or storms because neither can destroy a Mexican home unless it's a chicken coop built out of wood. And no matter how nice you make that wood look, in Mexico where it is all brick mortar and rebar, a wood home is just a chicken coop. That really is the attitude here.


But there is a reason why private single occupant homes in America have to be built out of wood, and it is specifically so it can be burned to the ground on a whim by authorities if they ever come across a Waco, Ruby Ridge or Dorner. Sure, Americans can still own guns, but I'd like to ask people how much good having a gun will do in a community that decides to rebel, when all it would take is an apache helicopter loaded with tracer rounds to fly through a town of five thousand, pop a few into each house to light each house on fire and burn it to the ground? A SINGLE APACHE PASS CAN EASILY BURN AN AMERICAN TOWN TO THE GROUND, and it is that way for a reason.


Quite a while ago, I wanted to have a home built. And I went to a homebuilder in Utah and talked to them to get a quote. And they quoted out the basement separately. When I saw the total on the basement, which included digging out the ground for it, laying the slab and pouring the walls for 4,500 square feet (top floor and basement), the basement portion including all piping and everything else underneath it was only $5,500.00 and the top portion of the house was $90,000. I asked him why the top cost so much compared to the basement, and he said because it has to be built out of wood, and wood takes a lot of labor - the concrete was easy. I then asked him if he could just build the entire house out of concrete, what it would cost, and he said $30,000 total, including all wiring, windows, EVERYTHING. And I asked him if he could do it, and he said NO. I asked why, and the answer shocked me -


He said "Because if you build it out of concrete, it's considered by the government to be a military bunker, and if you get a wacko in there who wants to defy the government he can put up a hell of a fight with a few guns. I could build it, but the state would quickly arrive with bulldozers and tear it down."



I then said, well, what about the homes that are built with brick?



He said, "that is only a facade, it has to be entirely supported by the wood wall behind it, and it has to fall inward if the wood portion of the home behind it burns and cannot remain standing after any fire, at least if it is up to code"



Now, I know the shills out there are going to have a heyday with this, and quote all sorts of places like Montana where you can build with concrete if you wish, but the cold hard reality is that virtually all of America is stuck with homes of sticks, the worst possible construction material in the world, BAR NONE. And if you want to know the real job of the Masons, it was to act on behalf of the Jew to make good and sure Americans could never be safe and sound within their own homes (among other things, such as enforcing business licensing in all areas of the country uniformly)


I have had numerous friends from other parts of the world, and they always wondered why American homes were so poorly built despite looking good on the outside. Gabriel Sharkowi, an Egyptian engineer was amazed by the wood homes in America and wondered how on earth Americans tolerated such shoddy homes but then stated "it is very intelligently put together, you would not expect wood to hold up like this". But the reality is that wood DOES NOT hold up, for example -

Just try not re-shingling, re siding, or repainting the house after 25 years or so. Water leaks will quickly destroy it in a few years if you do not, WHY should a home need that kind of maintenance? In Mexico, they just build it out of concrete and brick and forget it. It lasts until it gets torn down for a reason other than any need. Why should Mexico have it better than America? And contrary to what you have been told, Mexican homes ARE NOT junk, they are absolutely great. Claudia has been to America a few times, and she was shocked by how bad the American homes were by comparison, "The walls are like they are made out of paper, you can hear everything in the next room. Why do Americans want that?"


My answer? Americans don't "want that", they are simply so unaware of what is going on in the rest of the world that they don't know that they should be expecting more.

If America was a free country, and the safety of the public really was a concern of the government, there would be absolutely no such thing as a wood home in tornado alley.

Consider that. Look at the tornado videos - in a sea of wreckage of wood homes you will see a crappy crappy laundromat that was built out of the cheapest cinder block still standing. WTF? ARE AMERICANS TOO STUPID TO BUILD WITH BRICK IN TORNADO ALLEY, HECK EVEN PRACTICALLY FREE CINDER BLOCK, OR ARE THEY IN FACT SO OPPRESSED AND ENSLAVED BY LAWS THAT EVEN THE MOST BASIC COMMON SENSE IS NOT ALLOWED TO PREVAIL, ALL IN THE NAME OF "CODE?" And don't be fooled by the difference between a "brick facade" and a REAL BRICK HOME, with NO WOOD WHATSOEVER. You see "brick homes" destroyed in tornado alley all the time because they are really just wood homes with a layer of brick, and not true brick homes.

http://www.thirdlinehomes.ca/images/katrina.jpeg

If the American government actually loved the people, homes built in Tornado alley would have 8 inch thick rebar enforced concrete walls and shatter proof glass, so you could watch TV right through the worst storm and not cower in the basement waiting for the end. Obviously this lone common sense home pictured to the left is the only one standing after everything else around it got erased. If it had better windows it would have practically no damage. This is an insulated concrete formed home that is difficult to get built because there are mountains of paperwork, but some areas will now allow these if you jump through the right hoops. QUESTION: Why should there be ANY hoops? Yeah, in Mexico you can build with wood if you are STUPID, the government will let you do it. But it won't be respected as a real home because, well, just look at that photo, where every home that was made of wood is GONE.


There is absolutely no excuse for homes in tornado alley to be built out of wood, you can't justify that for safety reasons, you can't justify that for price reasons, you can't justify that for ANY REASON OTHER THAN MAINTAINING TYRANNY, PEOPLE IN HOMES BUILT OF STICKS ARE INCREDIBLY WEAK, THEIR GUNS WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, JUST BURN THEM TO THE GROUND AND IF THE TYRANTS IN THE GOVERNMENT DON'T WANT THE FACT THEY FLAMED A CITY GETTING OUT IN A CELL PHONE VIDEO, THEY CAN JUST KILL EVERYONE BY SHOOTING THROUGH THE WALLS. THAT is what is going to happen if the 2nd amendment is ever brought to fruition.




Mexican, Arab, and other homes compared to American homes


In a Mexican or Arab home, if a wire burns up in the wall, you pull in a new wire (they are all run through conduit in the wall) so you just pull new wire in. In an American home, if a wire burns up in a wall, call the fire department so the neighbors house can be sprayed down and prevented from igniting while yours is burned to the point of needing to be rebuilt, at 3x the cost of concrete, which it should have been made of in the first place

If A Mexican, Arab, or any other home in Latin America is approached by a wild fire, you just sit there and wait it out. Wild fires are nothing. Maybe repaint if it gets smoked up too much. Get the car in the garage so it does not burn. If an American home gets approached by a wild fire, you are given a warning to get out in a half hour with whatever you can, they can't stop it anyway, and you will lose EVERYTHING that was in the house including the house.



If termites get into a Mexican home, they might eat the dresser. If termites get into an American home, it's game over.



If a storm comes to a Mexican home, well, nothing happens unless the home ends up in the middle of a river and gets washed out from underneath. If a storm gets to an American home, it might damage it in a way that does not even show, get a water leak going, rot the walls, and then one day the toilet falls through the floor. (I have seen that happen, not a joke)


A Mexican or Arab home gets built, rained on, gets a new family, goes through a tornado, and 150 years later it gets family number 8 or 9, and then needs a roof patch to get it through the next 150 years. An American home needs a new roof after 30 years or so, and then for one reason or another the most sensible thing to do after less than 100 years is tear it down, it's degraded and worn out. A total loss. How's that for GDP? Hows that for living expenses? Would it not be more sensible to build it right to begin with for 1/3 the cost, and then pass it on for 300 years? And THAT'S NOT ALL


"Sarah Stone" that's her alias anyway, (she is the one who co wrote tainted nightmare) said it like it really is

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Coz_bGKRruo/Th9iUsFbbRI/AAAAAAAAT9g/zyG1XZrx500/s1600/legacy+14.jpg

Get this, she really said it - "Concrete homes are crappy homes, because they need work after only 200 years or so. All the good homes are MADE OF STONE." I kid you not, I just about crapped my pants when I heard THAT ONE


I then showed her the picture of a burned American home to the left, and she was shocked - she said, "you mean, that's all that is left? AND AMERICANS ACCEPT THAT? In my country, fires only happen in one room. And you just clean up that room afterward."

And, now the big question: How well will crappy wooden homes hold up against DRONE STRIKES? (http://jimstonefreelance.com/bombblast.jpg)

Santa
12th June 2014, 06:24 PM
What do y'all think of Jim's theory here?

Well, in my neck of the woods, Florida, there's no "law" that says you have to build out of wood. In fact, most houses are built of cinder block.
It's cheaper than stick built.

Uncle Salty
12th June 2014, 06:26 PM
Government assholes strike again.

Stop Making Cents
12th June 2014, 07:53 PM
Government assholes strike again.

How do the brick and cement homes resist mold? Also thought i read brick buildings dont hold up as well in earthquakes because theres no give like there is in wood.

The climate might make a difference.

Ares
12th June 2014, 08:10 PM
I built my last home, and I can attest to the quality or lack there of. What the builder didn't know, was that when I did the pre-wire for home audio, ethernet, etc. I ran 4 inch screws in reinforcement areas of the house just for extra hold.

I'm currently looking at houses now. Looking like I'll build again. They keep touting these wooden decks, I said the wood is nice and all. But why not synthetic? It's cheaper, last longer, and doesn't require treatment every year so that it doesn't rot away from the elements.

Glass
12th June 2014, 09:52 PM
I used to build homes in cyclone areas. Concrete raft slab/floor. Deep fat edge footings. Steel frame instead of timber. Bolted through slab into footings. Cross braced with steel straps. Roof made from pre-fab trusses. Bolted through steel frame into the floor. Outside walls were brick. So brick veneer.

I could never understand how americans could build timber homes in torndado areas unless the idea was to have these disasters and people killed. There can't be any other reason for it.

In my city houses are built from double brick, welll its actually pretend brick because the clay is crap and they extrude so much of the guts of the brick out that they are fairly weak. This city is the only part of the country where this is done. Everywhere else it is timber frame internal and brick veneer, except for cyclone areas where it is steel.

EE_
13th June 2014, 03:00 AM
I built my last home, and I can attest to the quality or lack there of. What the builder didn't know, was that when I did the pre-wire for home audio, ethernet, etc. I ran 4 inch screws in reinforcement areas of the house just for extra hold.

I'm currently looking at houses now. Looking like I'll build again. They keep touting these wooden decks, I said the wood is nice and all. But why not synthetic? It's cheaper, last longer, and doesn't require treatment every year so that it doesn't rot away from the elements.

I've been here a year already and you are getting close I think.
Plan on building a nice covered/screened-in deck what ever you do. Mine is 12' x 20' (vaulted ceiling) and I use it 8 months out of the year, love it!

For a covered deck, pressure-treat lumber is fine. For exterior lumber, I used one of these Restore/Deck-Over products...beats deck maintenance. My exterior deck is a 26' x 30' concrete slab, which I also painted with Restore.

I have a friend that lives in the Denver area, which is a pretty nice clean area. He's been wanting to buy a waterfront home on Lake Norman. I believe there's new building and properties selling on the lake. Might be something to look at?

Ares
13th June 2014, 04:21 AM
I've been here a year already and you are getting close I think.
Plan on building a nice covered/screened-in deck what ever you do. Mine is 12' x 20' (vaulted ceiling) and I use it 8 months out of the year, love it!

For a covered deck, pressure-treat lumber is fine. For exterior lumber, I used one of these Restore/Deck-Over products...beats deck maintenance. My exterior deck is a 26' x 30' concrete slab, which I also painted with Restore.

I have a friend that lives in the Denver area, which is a pretty nice clean area. He's been wanting to buy a waterfront home on Lake Norman. I believe there's new building and properties selling on the lake. Might be something to look at?

Actually been looking to build in the Steele creek, York, Clover South Carolina area. Cheaper taxes. :)

Norweger
13th June 2014, 03:21 PM
It probably ties in with the scam known as insurance.

madfranks
13th June 2014, 04:17 PM
As the resident professional architect on this board (licensed in two states, currently working on four wood-framed structures in the Denver area), I would like to offer the following comments to this article.


Yet when you look through the building codes in place all across America, wood is predominantly the only thing allowed even in tornado zones and I beg to question why.

Sorry, that's just not true. There's nothing stopping folks from building a fully non-combustible single family home, but people rarely choose to do so because it's so much more expensive than wood. A type II non-combustible single family home Occupancy Type R-3 is fully allowed in the code.


The answer is cold hard proof of why you can't construct a home in America out of solid concrete.

Yes you can, and while it's rarely done, I've seen it done by folks who valued that additional protection and sturdiness.


First of all, if safety was really a concern, wood homes would be banned. There would be no need for ridiculous fire codes if homes were built of concrete. Yet every night, Americans go to sleep in homes that could burn to the ground overnight, or be blown away by a storm, and there is absolutely no reason for it.

Current residential codes require fire sprinklers, even in single family homes. The risk of fire danger in a wood-framed home equipped with an automatic sprinkler system is equivalent to a non-combustible home. Remember, the primary fuel that feeds an early home fire is not the home structure, rather the combustible items in the structure (furniture, window treatments, etc.)


But there is a reason why private single occupant homes in America have to be built out of wood, and it is specifically so it can be burned to the ground on a whim by authorities if they ever come across a Waco, Ruby Ridge or Dorner.

I'll say it again; there is no law or code that requires this. It's due to the low cost of wood frame construction versus solid concrete.


Sure, Americans can still own guns, but I'd like to ask people how much good having a gun will do in a community that decides to rebel, when all it would take is an apache helicopter loaded with tracer rounds to fly through a town of five thousand, pop a few into each house to light each house on fire and burn it to the ground? A SINGLE APACHE PASS CAN EASILY BURN AN AMERICAN TOWN TO THE GROUND, and it is that way for a reason.

Yeah, and the military doesn't have bombs or ordinance that could take out small, individual single family homes built of 4" thick concrete? LOL.


Quite a while ago, I wanted to have a home built. And I went to a homebuilder in Utah and talked to them to get a quote. And they quoted out the basement separately. When I saw the total on the basement, which included digging out the ground for it, laying the slab and pouring the walls for 4,500 square feet (top floor and basement), the basement portion including all piping and everything else underneath it was only $5,500.00 and the top portion of the house was $90,000. I asked him why the top cost so much compared to the basement, and he said because it has to be built out of wood, and wood takes a lot of labor - the concrete was easy. I then asked him if he could just build the entire house out of concrete, what it would cost, and he said $30,000 total, including all wiring, windows, EVERYTHING. And I asked him if he could do it, and he said NO. I asked why, and the answer shocked me -


He said "Because if you build it out of concrete, it's considered by the government to be a military bunker, and if you get a wacko in there who wants to defy the government he can put up a hell of a fight with a few guns. I could build it, but the state would quickly arrive with bulldozers and tear it down."Sorry, this isn't true. Does anyone realize the amount of labor required to set up concrete formwork, set up the reinforcing, and pour the concrete, let alone the costs of all these materials? Wood stud walls can be built INCREDIBLY cheaper, with less labor, than concrete. All you need is wood and nails, and immigrants who don't speak english can build it. Concrete requires much more work and specialized professionals to build. If you don't believe me, call your own local contractor and ask them.


I then said, well, what about the homes that are built with brick?




He said, "that is only a facade, it has to be entirely supported by the wood wall behind it, and it has to fall inward if the wood portion of the home behind it burns and cannot remain standing after any fire, at least if it is up to code"It absolutely does not. In fact, while fully poured concrete homes are rare, CMU (concrete masonry unit, or cinder block) construction is much more common. In CMU construction the concrete is the load bearing wall, no need for the brick veneer.


I have had numerous friends from other parts of the world, and they always wondered why American homes were so poorly built despite looking good on the outside. Gabriel Sharkowi, an Egyptian engineer was amazed by the wood homes in America and wondered how on earth Americans tolerated such shoddy homes but then stated "it is very intelligently put together, you would not expect wood to hold up like this". But the reality is that wood DOES NOT hold up, for example - American homes are poorly built sometimes, mostly in the cookie-cutter tract home developers who push out hundreds of homes to bare minimum standards. There's nothing stopping one from building a higher quality home, and they do exist, all over the country. The economy homes are bare minimum, and could be better, but it's not a conspiracy why they're not.


Just try not re-shingling, re siding, or repainting the house after 25 years or so. Water leaks will quickly destroy it in a few years if you do not, WHY should a home need that kind of maintenance? In Mexico, they just build it out of concrete and brick and forget it. It lasts until it gets torn down for a reason other than any need. Why should Mexico have it better than America? And contrary to what you have been told, Mexican homes ARE NOT junk, they are absolutely great. Claudia has been to America a few times, and she was shocked by how bad the American homes were by comparison, "The walls are like they are made out of paper, you can hear everything in the next room. Why do Americans want that?"LOL. Concrete transmits sound much more readily than a wood stud wall. In fact, the higher STC (sound transmission class) rated walls are constructed of double bay staggered wood studs, which create an air gap between wall surfaces, which virtually eliminates sounds transmission. If you shared a 10" concrete wall with your neighbor, you'd hear every sound from the other side.


If America was a free country, and the safety of the public really was a concern of the government, there would be absolutely no such thing as a wood home in tornado alley.It's a question of economics. A builder can build 10 wood frame homes and sell them for $150,000 each or 5 concrete homes and sell them for $200,000 each. Which one will he do? Which one will serve his customers better? Those who want concrete homes can still get them if they want but wood frame homes, because they are cheaper, allow more homes to be built to serve more families.


Consider that. Look at the tornado videos - in a sea of wreckage of wood homes you will see a crappy crappy laundromat that was built out of the cheapest cinder block still standing. WTF? ARE AMERICANS TOO STUPID TO BUILD WITH BRICK IN TORNADO ALLEY, HECK EVEN PRACTICALLY FREE CINDER BLOCK, OR ARE THEY IN FACT SO OPPRESSED AND ENSLAVED BY LAWS THAT EVEN THE MOST BASIC COMMON SENSE IS NOT ALLOWED TO PREVAIL, ALL IN THE NAME OF "CODE?"

http://www.thirdlinehomes.ca/images/katrina.jpegTwo answers. Yes, Americans are stupid, and no, the code does not preclude it. The home standing in that photo cost that guy a lot more to build, and he got a higher quality product for it.


If the American government actually loved the people, homes built in Tornado alley would have 8 inch thick rebar enforced concrete walls and shatter proof glassLOL, and you're telling me this is cheaper than wood and nails? Nope.
There is absolutely no excuse for homes in tornado alley to be built out of wood, you can't justify that for safety reasons, you can't justify that for price reasons, you can't justify that for ANY REASONYes you can, it's because people want them. Many people who could not afford a concrete home can afford a wood frame home, even in tornado alley. Yes, the risk of tornadoes exists, this is why tornado insurance exists. If you have a concrete home, would you take out tornado insurance?
Mexican, Arab, and other homes compared to American homesLet me just say that all of these examples are heavily exaggerated. Yes, the risk of fire danger exists, but not every termite, storm, or outlet burn does not mean you lose everything.

Cebu_4_2
13th June 2014, 05:47 PM
As the resident professional architect on this board (licensed in two states, currently working on four wood-framed structures in the Denver area),

I need advice on my basement (block) walls bowing in. Seem to have stabilized the last 2 years but still a big crack in the wall questioned, with stair stepping on the other 2 walls. Was thinking about busting the top brick sections sticking in rebar and pumping in concrete but is just too big of a nightmare as well as expensive.... plus the walls will still look like they are caving in. I just kinda avoid looking at it and the whole basement. Jokers around here want to put in drainage and pumps even though we no longer have any water issues...

PatColo
13th June 2014, 06:05 PM
tanks 'franks :) The biggest correction you've made I think lies in Stone's argument about how much MORE expensive wood is vs concrete, which you refute. Could it be that wood is cheaper in US with its forests & related industry, while this isn't true in countries without these resources in place domestically? Just trying to throw Stone a bone here... :D

Stone's deeply conspiratorial bent on the subject struck me as over the top, but otoh, how did .gov "solve" Waco, and Dorner? And Stone's planned obsolescence & disaster capitalism arguments surely have at least some merit. Ditto Norwerger's insurance scam point?

I was unaware that residential code, at least where you are, mandates automatic sprinkler systems now. I only knew that for several decades, hard-wired smoke detectors were mandated, as opposed to battery op'd.

Hillbilly
13th June 2014, 06:09 PM
The guberment does not use wood for their buidlings, very telling! wood sucks, but it's good enough for the sheeple.

madfranks
13th June 2014, 06:40 PM
The guberment does not use wood for their buidlings, very telling! wood sucks, but it's good enough for the sheeple.

Most commercial or office buildings are not wood framed, because code limits the number of stories and area allowed to be framed with wood. For instance, if you wanted a 10,000 sf 4 story office building, code does not allow wood for that, due to fire danger. Remember, in a single family home, you only need to evacuate what, 4-10 people? Easily done within 30 minutes, versus an office complex where 1000+ people would have to escape in a fire! which is why non combustible construction is required for such buildings.

madfranks
13th June 2014, 06:44 PM
tanks 'franks :) The biggest correction you've made I think lies in Stone's argument about how much MORE expensive wood is vs concrete, which you refute. Could it be that wood is cheaper in US with its forests & related industry, while this isn't true in countries without these resources in place domestically? Just trying to throw Stone a bone here... :D

Stone's deeply conspiratorial bent on the subject struck me as over the top, but otoh, how did .gov "solve" Waco, and Dorner? And Stone's planned obsolescence & disaster capitalism arguments surely have at least some merit. Ditto Norwerger's insurance scam point?

I was unaware that residential code, at least where you are, mandates automatic sprinkler systems now. I only knew that for several decades, hard-wired smoke detectors were mandated, as opposed to battery op'd.

Yes, I think part of it is the relative cheap price of wood in the states versus Mexico and the Middle East where cement and concrete is more readily available.

The 2012 residential code, yet to be adopted by most jurisdictions, indeed now mandates automatic sprinklers in single family homes. This is a relatively new requirement, but the trend is undeniable. Additionally, there is movement to push for foam fire suppression systems for residential kitchens, since kitchens are the #1 location where residential fires start.