Optimally bad timing for a rise in silver

[KenJackson]

I've read at least two prognosticators suggesting that the silver in the SLV ETF has been looted. Supposedly, the fund's rules allow custodial duties to be subcontracted out to firms that are not prohibited from "loaning" the silver they are keeping safe. And of course once it's loaned, it's probably gone.

It seems far-fetched, but since the suggestion or allegation has been made, I figured I might as well move my SLV holdings to one or the other silver ETFs: PSLV or SIVR.

So last night I put in a limit order to sell all my shares at a price a little higher than it's been trading at recently: $19.

Then this morning, I saw KITCO's chart (http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html) showing silver starting a steep upward climb. Oh No!. {0} Sure enough, my limit order sold at $19 as SLV continued to climb and topped out at $20.10. That's 5.8% higher than I sold it for a few hours earlier.

I had been procrastinating doing this for a little while. I sure wish I had procrastinated a mere 10 hours more. Not only could I have made an extra few percent, but if the manipulators don't tamp it down soon, I'll end up bying the other ETF at a higher price than it's been selling at recently.


http://kenjackson.us/img/slv-jump-chart.jpg

[EE_]

So tell us why again you're buying ETF's and not physical?

[Glass]

So tell us why again you're buying ETF's and not physical?

Because there is zero chance of the paper being redeemed into actual silver so may as well flip them into something offering a yield?

Key word being yield. Remember physical silver is both a relic and barren of yield.

Sorry to hear about your loss on paper. No worse feeling than leaving money on the table. The best time to sell is either side right near the top. Hitting the top would be a feat and a fluke so aiming to ping it at your chosen level either side of the top/pop is your best bet. So on the way up or again on the way back down. Few want to sell on the down move but so long as its in your range do it. What you left on the table was a safety margin. The margin against the market going to zero and you missing the chance to get out or there being a gap down in price.

I always think buying and selling is like a surfer catching a wave. Is this the one? Maybe the next one? What about this one? Then you are on the wave and riding it, but was it the best wave there was? On balance did it give you what you wanted or needed? Then at least it was a good wave to catch. Start looking out for the next good wave.

[KenJackson]

So tell us why again you're buying ETF's and not physical?

Who says I'm not buying physical?

Most of my savings are in rollover IRAs. Pretax. I understand I could use some of it to buy physical PMs and have it stored by an authorized custodian. But I'm not convinced that's so much better than an ETF that it's worth the additional hassle and cost.

So the small amount of physical I buy is bought after taxes and off record.

[EE_]

Because there is zero chance of the paper being redeemed into actual silver so may as well flip them into something offering a yield?

Key word being yield. Remember physical silver is both a relic and barren of yield.

Sorry to hear about your loss on paper. No worse feeling than leaving money on the table. The best time to sell is either side right near the top. Hitting the top would be a feat and a fluke so aiming to ping it at your chosen level either side of the top/pop is your best bet. So on the way up or again on the way back down. Few want to sell on the down move but so long as its in your range do it. What you left on the table was a safety margin. The margin against the market going to zero and you missing the chance to get out or there being a gap down in price.

I always think buying and selling is like a surfer catching a wave. Is this the one? Maybe the next one? What about this one? Then you are on the wave and riding it, but was it the best wave there was? On balance did it give you what you wanted or needed? Then at least it was a good wave to catch. Start looking out for the next good wave.

I think there's a nice wave coming in tomorrow....

[EE_]

Who says I'm not buying physical?

Most of my savings are in rollover IRAs. Pretax. I understand I could use some of it to buy physical PMs and have it stored by an authorized custodian. But I'm not convinced that's so much better than an ETF that it's worth the additional hassle and cost.

So the small amount of physical I buy is bought after taxes and off record.

I wouldn't fault you for buying silver mining stocks, but participating their rigged game, tisk tisk...

[KenJackson]

Remember physical silver is both a relic and barren of yield.

Holy Cow! You're pretty fearless to say that on this site.

I kind of agreed with you for years. But it's not like one or two kooks is saying the end is near. There are numerous knowledgeable investor gurus saying the dollar's reign as the world's reserve currency is almost over and that printing a trillion new dollars per year will end badly. And most of them also say that PMs are one of the few investments that tend to hold their value as we fall over the cliff.

I'm just trying to figure out how to stay alive.

[osoab]

I wouldn't fault you for buying silver mining stocks, but participating their rigged game, tisk tisk...

Miners?

They could all close up shop and wilver would have a -25% week.

[Glass]

Holy Cow! You're pretty fearless to say that on this site.

I kind of agreed with you for years. But it's not like one or two kooks is saying the end is near. There are numerous knowledgeable investor gurus saying the dollar's reign as the world's reserve currency is almost over and that printing a trillion new dollars per year will end badly. And most of them also say that PMs are one of the few investments that tend to hold their value as we fall over the cliff.

I'm just trying to figure out how to stay alive.

Thats ok, the peeps here know I am mostly sarcastic. But I don't think PM"s are a source of yield. I think they are a store of wealth.

[EE_]

Miners?

They could all close up shop and wilver would have a -25% week.

All the top gurus say that's where the real money gets made when this fire gets going.
So ya pick a couple good ones and one bad, you still might pick up a lot of change?
I just hate the ETF's because your helping the criminals supress the price of silver/gold.

[EE_]

Thats ok, the peeps here know I am mostly sarcastic. But I don't think PM"s are a source of yield. I think they are a store of wealth.

No, we think you're nuts, but we like ya anyway.


yeah we know glass was being sarcastic again

[Horn]

I don't think PM"s are a source of yield. I think they are a store of wealth.

The silver price exhibits the fact that there is very little wealth left in the world these days.

[osoab]

I would blame chad. He probably sold yesterday.

[Neuro]

The main argument against buying an ETF vs Physical would be that you support and give credence to their paper shorting games.

[gunDriller]

I think the Sprott physical silver trust is worth considering.

Silver is a good investment, but vaulting more than a few thousand ounces can become a major logistical endeavour ... e.g. in case you ever have to move.


Looking at historical price action since April 2013, silver has risen back up to $21, $22, $23, $24 etc. a few times.

Also, this next week is options expiry.

Unless the Cartel has given up, it is reasonable to expect another price raid this next week.

[Horn]

e.g. in case you ever have to move.

If you distribute 100 oz. bars between your extended family members for safe keeping is also a good bet,

more often than not they have no idea the price, and use it for a door stop or paper weight, completely hidden in plain site.

It also makes the case for having any inclination towards visiting those people. :)

[osoab]

I think the Sprott physical silver trust is worth considering.

Silver is a good investment, but vaulting more than a few thousand ounces can become a major logistical endeavour ... e.g. in case you ever have to move.


Looking at historical price action since April 2013, silver has risen back up to $21, $22, $23, $24 etc. a few times.

Also, this next week is options expiry.

Unless the Cartel has given up, it is reasonable to expect another price raid this next week.

I don't trust Sprott. He makes his money by selling silver.

[KenJackson]

If you distribute 100 oz. bars between your extended family ... more often than not they have no idea the price, and use it for a door stop or paper weight, completely hidden in plain site.
Until your crazy aunt tells your cousin, "What is that junk doing in this house? Put it in the trash!"


I don't trust Sprott. He makes his money by selling silver.
Oh my. Everyone who sells you bars, coins and rounds does too. Even your dentist does.

[Glass]

If you distribute 100 oz. bars between your extended family members for safe keeping is also a good bet,

more often than not they have no idea the price, and use it for a door stop or paper weight, completely hidden in plain site.

It also makes the case for having any inclination towards visiting those people. :)

or you could just become a collector. Of door stops. Coin resin toilet seats?

family could make disappear due to decore or something. How would you get it back?

[gunDriller]

or you could just become a collector. Of door stops. Coin resin toilet seats?

family could make disappear due to decore or something. How would you get it back?


a stolen doorstop that's worth $20,000 ... tax deduction ? (i've heard of people doing this with 1000 ounce bars - that weigh 70 pounds.)


stolen doorstop one year, boating accident the next, creating losses to offset income.

it's only a problem if the IRS asks questions. :)

[Cebu_4_2]

Also, this next week is options expiry.


Now I am looking into
H.R. 2847

[steyr_m]

Who says I'm not buying physical?

Most of my savings are in rollover IRAs. Pretax. I understand I could use some of it to buy physical PMs and have it stored by an authorized custodian. But I'm not convinced that's so much better than an ETF that it's worth the additional hassle and cost.

So the small amount of physical I buy is bought after taxes and off record.

Dunno buds, this forum is centred around physical. Anyone can print a receipt for silver and sell it to you. As Ponce always reminds us, if you don't hold it, you don't own it.

Anything paper related to physical, is a ponzi scheme. I'm sure the Fed was an "authorized custodian" of the German Gold too.

[Horn]

Coin resin toilet seats?

This guys got talent, though there maybe recovery issues there also.

[Neuro]

I don't trust Sprott. He makes his money by selling silver.
He is a team player, he got most of his attention in 2011 as silver was in its 40's, he was pumping silver then, and at the peak he sold everything he had himself. Typical pump and dump, and a tribe member...