COIN (new ETF) adds to the tension between bitcoin and gold [Archive]

KenJackson

8th July 2014, 08:21 PM

There's tension between bitcoin and gold.

Why is gold such a stable holder of value? Why does it have any value? These questions have all been asked and answered and it comes down to agreement. People have constantly agreed to value gold for millennia, so gold has value.

Now enter bitcoin. Why would anybody compare bitcoin to gold? And yet the comparison is made frequently. But of course it's brand new, so we have no history to study.

I feel this tension in myself. I know something bad is coming. I want to put what I have into something that will withstand the coming cataclysm. If I load up my house with gold, it will greatly increase the chances that I'll lose it any number of ways, and maybe my life too.

Bitcoin would allow me to put all the wealth I choose to muster, encrypted and replicated onto thumb drives, hard disks and cloud sites. In that way it's much, much better than gold.

But the obvious question is whether everyone will agree that bitcoin has maintained it's value by the time I need it. And whether the infrastructure will survive the storm intact.

All this speculation will become very relevant later this year when COIN, the Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF (http://etfdailynews.com/2014/07/08/winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-ticker-to-be-coin/) is expected to become available for investment. That can't help but drive up (http://moneymorning.com/tag/bitcoin-stocks/) the value of bitcoin. And there will also be competition from SecondMarket's BIT ETF.

So if anyone is weighing PMs against bitcoin, the time to decide is rushing toward us.

govcheetos

8th July 2014, 08:37 PM

I'll buy all your gold/silver from you for a FRN over spot so you can purchase those bitcoins.

Call me old fashioned.

Sparky

8th July 2014, 09:37 PM

Yes, COIN may be ripe for speculation and a fueling of price, particularly when the ETF opens up. But it will be very sensitive to any digital currency security breeches or scandals that are publicized.

Horn

9th July 2014, 08:15 AM

These questions have all been asked and answered and it comes down to agreement. People have constantly agreed to value gold for millennia, so gold has value

And availability, how people agree has no effect on availability.

Bitcoin's inherent infinite divisibility, while viewed as a dynamic trait, is in an instant its achilles.

If Bitcoin had presence in this our physical world, there would be enough when lined end to end to go around the galaxy twice, and they're adding more loops by the hour. :)

KenJackson

9th July 2014, 09:54 AM

And availability, how people agree has no effect on availability.
But availability has a big effect on how people agree. That is, if gold were much more available, we wouldn't agree on its current high price.

Bitcoin's inherent infinite divisibility, while viewed as a dynamic trait, is in an instant its achilles.

Half an ounce of gold is worth half a full ounce of gold. Half a bitcoin is worth half a full bitcoin.

The difference between the two is a matter of convenience. That is, it would be inconvenient to work with a tenth of a gram or smaller of gold. I take it that's your point. But it's solvable. And if we go over $10,000/oz as some are predicting, it will get solved. That probably means coins will be minted as alloys with a tiny percentage of gold. Or maybe assayed specs of pure old will be sold in sealed containers.

madfranks

9th July 2014, 10:06 AM

And availability, how people agree has no effect on availability.

Bitcoin's inherent infinite divisibility, while viewed as a dynamic trait, is in an instant its achilles.

If Bitcoin had presence in this our physical world, there would be enough when lined end to end to go around the galaxy twice, and they're adding more loops by the hour. :)

Gold's inherent divisibility is part of what makes it such a good money. You can take one ounce of gold and divide it into 2, 4, 10, 20, 100 parts and each one is worth it's fraction of the whole. Bitcoin does the same, only digitally. I don't see why one is a benefit and the other is a detriment.

Horn

9th July 2014, 10:19 AM

And if we go over $10,000/oz as some are predicting, it will get solved. That probably means coins will be minted as alloys with a tiny percentage of gold. Or maybe assayed specs of pure old will be sold in sealed containers.

You'll have to do better than adding one more zero, in Bitcoin's case add 8.

Besides the ease of "divisibility creation", (by simply adding water in the form of a merchandiser's written computer pricing script)

No need or even possible way to assay something not visible to the naked eye. Unavailability or over availability negates reason to agree on a price. Though governors try to currently debate a price on CO2 emission and creation, a price on air has yet to be determined.

No resistance to infinite demands = weakness.

Horn

9th July 2014, 10:36 AM

I don't see why one is a benefit and the other is a detriment.

Of all the inherent weaknesses to discuss at the link, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

I will have to join the wiki to add my achilles in ease of divisibility, so much so that the floppy Bitcoin notion falls flat on a non-existent face even before trying to make the hurdle to a claim of divisibility creation.

Why you ask? We have an infinite number of Litecoin (and other alt. knockoffs) for that.

madfranks

9th July 2014, 10:49 AM

Of all the inherent weaknesses to discuss at the link, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

I will have to join the wiki to add my achilles in ease of divisibility, so much so that the floppy Bitcoin notion falls flat on a non-existent face even before trying to make the hurdle to a claim of divisibility creation.

But each fraction is still worth just a fraction. You can't take two halves of a gold ounce and declare each half to have the value of the full ounce. Same with bitcoins. There is no inflation simply because you can divide into fractions.

Why you ask? We have an infinite number of Litecoin (and other alt. knockoffs) for that.

We have an infinite amount of gold too, it's called silver, copper, and other metal knockoffs.

Horn

9th July 2014, 10:54 AM

We have an infinite amount of gold too, it's called silver, copper, and other metal knockoffs.

Who is this we?

And show me these supposed "infinite amounts" of what are finite materials in our reach.

You are a boy in a bubble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-VAi2Xqq8

madfranks

9th July 2014, 01:33 PM

Who is this we?

I don't know, the same "we" you brought up first:

We have an infinite number of Litecoin (and other alt. knockoffs) for that.

And show me these supposed "infinite amounts" of what are finite materials in our reach.

In the same way that the air we breathe, the leaves on the trees, and the sand on the shore is in such abundant supply that everyone can have as much as he wants at no cost. But yes, technically, the earth does have a finite supply of material, so does the solar system, and so does the whole universe.

You are a boy in a bubble.

To the contrary, I'm actually open to new ideas and innovations.

Horn

9th July 2014, 02:06 PM

I don't know, the same "we" you brought up first

Your's is an imaginary we, Flash... as there isn't an infinite supply that is as easily divisible/accessible.

Cease from hurling your body out of your bubble and into the void, before knowing the true nature of the universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBfuXXGqFL8

palani

9th July 2014, 02:34 PM

An empty semi-trailer being towed is sometimes referred to as a full load of post holes ; i.e., nothing.

When purchasing a depleted gold mine what the new owner is getting is described as 'the shaft'.

Reality is detected by sight, taste, feel, hearing, or smell. None of these attributes attach to bitcoins.

Imagination is not used to detect reality. Things that are imagined are [in addition to others]
1. the Tooth Fairy
2. the State (any State)
3. snakes on the wall (aka D.T.s)
4. the i plane (mathematics)
5. ownership
6. trusts
7. bitcoins

KenJackson

9th July 2014, 03:37 PM

Imagination is not used to detect reality. Things that are imagined are [in addition to others]
1. the Tooth Fairy
2. the State (any State)
3. snakes on the wall (aka D.T.s)
4. the i plane (mathematics)
5. ownership
6. trusts
7. bitcoins

I get paid in "dollars" by direct deposit to my bank, and I spend most of them by ACH (bill-pay) transactions, or by credit card transactions which I pay of by ACH. So add "dollars" to that list.

You may define the state as imaginary, but if you ignore it (e.g. disregard its laws) it will bite you and cause real pain. Or is pain imaginary too? Maybe Plato or the Matrix is right and everything is imaginary.

One big disadvantage of bitcoin is that arguments against it tend to get very silly. And sadly I seem incapable of ignoring silly arguments. My weakness.

palani

9th July 2014, 03:55 PM

add "dollars" to that list The entire list of things imaginary is unlimited.

You may define the state as imaginary, but if you ignore it (e.g. disregard its laws) it will bite you and cause real pain. The State can cause no pain because it doesn't exist. Things that don't exist are incapable of causing damage.

I seem incapable of ignoring silly arguments.
If you detect argument then add this perception to the list of imaginary things. Reason is to reality as argument is to fiction.

KenJackson

9th July 2014, 04:10 PM

Gold's inherent divisibility is part of what makes it such a good money.

Exactly.

You'll have to do better than adding one more zero, in Bitcoin's case add 8.
You're building a case against gold. Money must be divisible. It's a strength of bitcoin that it's so readily divisible. But if the value of gold rises so high that it's impractical to divide it to reasonably valued sizes, that's a weakness of gold.

There's one more point in bitcoin's favor at least worth a mention. I understand some companies are already actively exploring the possibility of mining asteroids for minerals. I don't know if they expect asteroids to have any gold, but why not? If they're able to mine other elements profitably, imagine how profitable gold would be. That would make gold no longer limited.

But bitcoin will always be limited by design. In fact, as individual bitcoins are "lost", the total possible supply drops further below the theoretical maximum, making each remaining coin more valuable. That's something unlikely to ever happen with gold.

Horn

9th July 2014, 04:26 PM

But if the value of gold rises so high that it's impractical to divide it to reasonably valued sizes, that's a weakness of gold.

This is the strength of Silver.

The only weakness of Precious metals is gold held by banks, and the weak hands that allow it to slip into them. Inflation and deflation held in check by its resistance to divisibility, and the crust of the Earth.

Both requiring a bit more than people simply agreeing with each other whether to touch, or not. Silver is the monetary sweet spot as has been discussed many times. And why nobody is permitted to use it as such by the lords in England.

EE_

9th July 2014, 04:49 PM

But bitcoin will always be limited by design. In fact, as individual bitcoins are "lost", the total possible supply drops further below the theoretical maximum, making each remaining coin more valuable. That's something unlikely to ever happen with gold.

I'll add the same for gold. As gold is lost to the bankers hoard, the supply drops. If it weren't for price suppression, gold would be valued much higher and soon one day might be.

I can't argue there is opportunity to make money on bitcoin, however, I believe the best quality of bitcoin is anonymity. This is what I've projected bitcoin to lose all along, and it will if it hasn't already. And now that the bankers will control the digital market with 'coin' You can take that to the bank...along with the taxes you will owe and their control over you.
Everything you do will be tracked and the profit carrot that is dangled in front of you will usher it in.
Why do you think there's never been a stink made by the US government about bitcoin...they've been in on it all along.
Far as I know cash and gold are still anonymous.

Like my sig "If you like your bankers, you can keep your bankers, just buy bitcoin!"

osoab

9th July 2014, 05:43 PM

But each fraction is still worth just a fraction. You can't take two halves of a gold ounce and declare each half to have the value of the full ounce. Same with bitcoins. There is no inflation simply because you can divide into fractions.

Two halves have more "value" combined in the current retail market.

Horn

9th July 2014, 06:05 PM

Two halves have more "value" combined in the current retail market.

Einstein genius level physician of Precious Metals.

This unseen resistance should have a proper nomenclature possibly along the lines of biological cell division.

Precious metal has more inherent cellular value than a single celled organism in Bitcoin amoeba. :)

KenJackson

9th July 2014, 06:33 PM

Why do you think there's never been a stink made by the US government about bitcoin...they've been in on it all along.

This is fascinating speculation. It has many implications and possibility.

A while ago, I read a blog (http://www.freeyourselffrommicrosoftandthensa.org/) which presented the case that NSA created bitcoin and purposely used flawed encryption so they could track its use.

... these complex mathematical coincidences are strong evidence that Bitcoin was not designed by a single lucky person – but by many extremely smart mathematicians and computer programmers over a period of several years. [Private entities] would not be likely to choose the NSA flawed encryption method. In other words, the strange design of Bitcoin has the fingerprints of the NSA all over it.

The blogger made his point, but I got to wondering why. I don't fully go for either his or your (EE_) logic, but yes I think they're in on it and I think I know why.

After 9/11/01, everyone asked why, oh why, we couldn't have known about the terrorists in time to stop them. "Follow the money," is the phrase we heard. We need to track terrorists transferring money around the world to know where they're going to hit. But Arabs have had an untraceable money transfer network in operation for over a thousand years which terrorists use. It works on trust and person-to-person contact. But it's slow and expensive. What if they could find an anonymous, instant, dirt-cheap way to transfer money around the world? If the terrorist thought it was anonymous and NSA knows it's not, the stage would be set.

And since Congress has been tipped off that they shouldn't hamper bitcoin, they just make noise and threats. It fits. And I'm not even opposed to it (since my credit card purchases and brokerage investments are surely very visible to NSA anyway).

madfranks

10th July 2014, 08:07 AM

Horn

10th July 2014, 08:22 AM

The jew-anglo world appreciates any baseless, POP currency it could get its hands on currently because its current one is washed out.

The Asians not so much, though it generated much steam there due to the other washed out currencies. Anything that smells of lesser value in "wallets" of the masses will be tread on only lightly.

When crypto-fanboys tell you that cryptos aren't going away, it should be taken that they aren't going anywhere.

EE_

10th July 2014, 08:55 AM

After 9/11/01, everyone asked why, oh why, we couldn't have known about the terrorists in time to stop them. "Follow the money," is the phrase we heard. We need to track terrorists transferring money around the world to know where they're going to hit. But Arabs have had an untraceable money transfer network in operation for over a thousand years which terrorists use. It works on trust and person-to-person contact. But it's slow and expensive. What if they could find an anonymous, instant, dirt-cheap way to transfer money around the world? If the terrorist thought it was anonymous and NSA knows it's not, the stage would be set.

This theory is not plausable. Who asked why we couldn't have known? I feel certain a small group did know.

There too much evidence that says 9/11 was no Muslim terrorist attack. Instead of asking where the money went, ask who benefitted most...the answer is obvious. It was not the Muslims....if it was, how did it work out for them? All their countries lay in ruin or are in the process of becoming ruined.

Plus the so called terrorist were trained under the Jewish Saudi's rule in Saudi Arabia. Funny the US never considered going there to investigate?

So that leaves Israel and it's proxy US governemnt. The US government benefitted by expanding it's power over everyone like never could have before.
Israel benefitted by having it's enemies destroyed. 9/11 was also to preserve the Jewish petro-dollar and control over oil.

If Muslim terrorists really wanted to attack US interests, they would have gone straight to the head of the vampire squid, Israel. They could have wiped Israel off the map...then I couldn't have made this arguement.

They probably only wanted to buy time with the petro-dollar until they could get the new digital currency introduced, hence bitcoin. Bitcoin may not be the new digital currency, but it will help get people accustomed to going digital until the new ?Coin is ready.

Horn

10th July 2014, 10:30 AM

Slaying of crypto aside, their utility function is a proper one. Speculation investment, would be contained to one that was designed to eat all the others in utility fashion.

As has been presented with the Banker approved Ripple system.

4
http://coinmarketcap.com/static/img/coins/16x16/ripple.png Ripple (https://ripple.com/currency/)
$ 31,741,572
$ 0.004060 (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#ripple)
100,000,000,000 XRP (https://ripple.com/graph) *
$ 245,080 (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#ripple)
6.17 %

(http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ripple/)

Iffen your morals have no questions as to where they're taking you... Chase will probably purchase down the road and call it a Citi-Ripple.

SnapSwap Launches in Europe (https://ripple.com/blog/snapswap-launches-in-europe/)

SnapSwap announced on Thursday the expansion of its operations to Europe (https://snapswap.eu/#/). The gateway’s arrival on the Old Continent means Ripple payments can now be made between European countries through SnapSwap EU and major markets like Australia, Canada, China, Latin America, Singapore, New Zealand, and the US.

SnapSwap EU (https://snapswap.eu/#/) is available to European citizens as well as “users from countries like Brazil, Indonesia, or Kenya”—as long as they can provide the necessary KYC (Know Your Customer) documents, like a passport or international driver’s license, says founder Denis Kiselev. “Because of regulations, we are also allowed to service the rest of the world,” he said, adding that the company is “working under European law and is fully compliant with financial regulations and requirements.”

What is ripple?

Ripple is an internet protocol for making financial transactions. It has a fully distributed exchange, meaning that any currency, both fiat and digital, can be hooked into the network, and anyone can trade these currencies.
Read more about Ripple (http://ripple.com/)

https://ripple.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ripple-map1.png

Ares

12th July 2014, 05:57 PM

Two things then. One, since the bitcoin code is all open source, anyone with the technical ability should be able to prove one way or another if there are backdoors that allow government tracking.

Two, if you don't trust bitcoin, there are alternative coins (litecoin being the most prominent) which use different proof of work algorithms and were created publicly by known individuals. These coins weren't created by government, unless you think that every single alt-coin developer is secretly a government agent.

Not to mention Darkcoin whose soul purpose of existence is anonymity. The foundation is still being laid, but it holds a LOT of promise with digital anonymity. Now there are also coins who use 11, or 13 different variations of encryption. Darkcoin is also another one it is an X11 type coin. So that one will with that many different layers of cryptography will never be cracked. Not in any of our lifetimes. X13 type coins are brand new this year.

My point in all of this is to supplement what Mad Franks said by saying that if Bitcoin was government created. They are having the unintended consequences of enormous innovation regarding alternative crypto currency methods. I don't buy that it was Government sponsored or created. Satoshi worked with other people to develop this concept. Gavin Anderson who is a member of the Bitcoin foundation worked with him in developing the first alpha protocol.

The key is its decentralized nature. That's the beauty and draw of crypto currencies.

Horn

12th July 2014, 06:13 PM

Oh beegeesus, now wait until the all new SR71 Diect X9 version cryptography.

6510

KenJackson

12th July 2014, 07:40 PM

I feel certain a small group did know.
Yes, Able Danger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Danger).

All their countries lay in ruin or are in the process of becoming ruined.
The true believers believe we should all live in the stone age. Their leaders literally lived in caves for a while. You can't ruin a country with bombs according to that line of thinking, you can only make it better by destroying the advances of civilization.

Plus the so called terrorist were trained under the Jewish Saudi's rule in Saudi Arabia.
So called? Under the what?

Please tell me you write novels. I'm sure they're excellent. I'll read every one.

Neuro

13th July 2014, 03:39 AM

KenJackson

13th July 2014, 11:02 AM

You believe in government approved fairy tales?
I don't believe the US economy is "recovering" like government has been reporting.

I don't believe much of what President Obama says.

Tell me, you of Absurdistan, what do you think I believe that you believe is a government fairy tale?

Horn

13th July 2014, 11:08 AM

Do you believe Jamie Dimon is ArchBishop of all terrorist organization?

EE_

13th July 2014, 12:25 PM

Yes, Able Danger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Danger).

The true believers believe we should all live in the stone age. Their leaders literally lived in caves for a while. You can't ruin a country with bombs according to that line of thinking, you can only make it better by destroying the advances of civilization.

Originally Posted by EE_
Plus the so called terrorist were trained under the Jewish Saudi's rule in Saudi Arabia.

So called? Under the what?

Please tell me you write novels. I'm sure they're excellent. I'll read every one.

This is widely known:

The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HmeGCigDD0

Will Israel Merge with Saudi Arabia?
Submitted by Veritas Aequitas on Fri, 10/25/2013 - 10:35

On February 1st, 1958, Egypt and Syria merged to become one country: The United Arab Republic. Though the brief political marriage ended in divorce on September 28th, 1961, it set a precedent for potential future Middle Eastern liaisons.

Today, a budding romance between Israel and Saudi Arabia is the talk of the Middle East. The Saudis and Israelis are working together to destabilize Syria and prop up the al-Sisi regime in Egypt. The Saudis and Israelis both strongly oppose letting the “Arab spring” bring democracy to the Middle East. The Saudis and Israelis both want corrupt Arab dictators to rule Bahrain and other countries in the region. The Saudis and Israelis work together whipping up sectarian tensions in a divide-and-conquer strategy aimed at preserving their respective regimes. And both the Saudis and the Israelis are angry at the US for refusing to bomb Syria and then attack Iran.

It seems that the Saudi and Israeli regimes have joined together to pursue the same foreign policy. Since their domestic policies are also similar, the question arises: Why not merge the two countries into a new entity called Saudi Israelia?

http://www.dailypaul.com/303511/will-israel-merge-with-saudi-arabia

The Jewish tribes of Arabia were ethnic groups professing the Jewish faith that inhabited the Arabian Peninsula before and during the advent of Islam. It is not always clear whether they were originally Israelite in ancestry, genealogically Arab tribes that converted to Judaism, or a mixture of both. In Islamic tradition the Jewish tribes of the Hejaz were seen as the offspring of the ancient Israelites.[1] According to Muslim sources, they spoke a language other than Arabic, which Al-Tabari claims was Persian. This implies they were connected to the major Jewish center in Babylon.[2] Certain Jewish traditions records the existence of nomadic tribes such as the Rechabites that converted to Judaism in antiquity.

KenJackson

13th July 2014, 05:22 PM

This is widely known:

The hijackers in the September 11 attacks were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. The others were from the United Arab Emirates (2), Egypt and Lebanon

Yes. Widely known. It speaks to the level of criminal insanity and filthy evil taught by Saudi's Wahhabi branch of Islam. But it doesn't support any conspiracy theories.

Will Israel Merge with Saudi Arabia?

That's obviously a joke. The best jokes are based on a solid layer of truth, though I don't even think this is funny. Visiting that daily paul site reveals that most of their stuff is at least whimsical if not an outright joke. ("Fart smells have health benefits"?) Although they do have a Ron Paul video (http://www.dailypaul.com//322327/video-ron-paul-on-alex-jones-big-event-is-getting-much-much-closer?top=1).

The video you posted was an interesting history of Saudi Arabia.

Neuro

13th July 2014, 05:58 PM

I don't believe the US economy is "recovering" like government has been reporting.

I don't believe much of what President Obama says.

Tell me, you of Absurdistan, what do you think I believe that you believe is a government fairy tale?
Do you actually believe the attacks on WTC and Pentagon was directed by Usama Bin Laden and Al Qaida?

Horn

13th July 2014, 06:13 PM

Osama was on a remote cave dialysis system , like Jamie now has throat cancer.

Dimon sent a letter (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2014/07/01/jpmorgan-chase-jamie-dimon-letter-cancer/11943099/) to bank executives and employees Tuesday saying the cancer is curable and his health outlook is excellent, because the disease was detected at an early stage.

insert/splice sympathy for devil vid.

KenJackson

13th July 2014, 06:59 PM

Do you actually believe the attacks on WTC and Pentagon was directed by Usama Bin Laden and Al Qaida?

I believe anyone who thinks otherwise if a fruit loop.

Why is it easier to believe our government, and the Bush Administration at that, would kill thousands of innocent people than to believe it was done by a psychotic band of savages who profess a love of death and a hate of free civilization?

osoab

13th July 2014, 08:05 PM

Horn

13th July 2014, 08:51 PM

Then you would be Toucan Sam on this board.

Did he ever make use of the Larry's Jewish Lightnin Skincare treatment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtMZ0jEZwM

The comparisons and parallels to Gene Rosenthall are astounding.

Horn

13th July 2014, 09:00 PM

Toucan Sam was seen flying towards the Pentagon, nobody knows what to do.

Its only the primary intelligence center for the military industrial complex this last century.

A Stand Down order has been issued while he approaches, all Star Trek fleet and GSUS crew members are requested to comply.

EE_

13th July 2014, 09:34 PM

I believe anyone who thinks otherwise if a fruit loop.

Why is it easier to believe our government, and the Bush Administration at that, would kill thousands of innocent people than to believe it was done by a psychotic band of savages who profess a love of death and a hate of free civilization?

Pretty funny to think the muslims could plan such an elaborate attack and not see how badly it would play out for the muslim world by leaving all their countries in shambles...and how good it would turn out for the Jews and US government.
The US government gained enormous power and Israel has all it's enemies bombed back to the stone age.
Syria and Iran were supposed to be taken down by now, it just didn't go accordingly to plan...yet.
They're working on it though.

Horn

13th July 2014, 09:45 PM

I repeat, a stand down order has been issued to all GSUS members while Toucan Sam arrives towards the Pentagon!

EE_ you are hereby relegated to grooving in a cave with a pict.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrRhnaFaBsA

KenJackson

13th July 2014, 11:27 PM

Did he ever make use of the Larry's Jewish Lightnin Skincare treatment?
I don't understand why the word "Jewish" is in that question. Many peoples have sensitive skin.

OK, fruit loops, why did the media cover it up?
If it took weeks to place charges, where are the workers that did it?
Why didn't someone involved spill his guts for the book contract of the century?
Why didn't anyone notice explosives being shipped to the trade center?
Why didn't anybody who lived, worked and played in those towers notice the unusual activity?
And why, oh why, didn't CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN blame George W. Bush????
They blamed him for creating Hurricane Katrina.

The media viscerally, passionately and insanely hated and still hates President Bush, so if there were any way possible to smear him with this (even if only that it was done on his watch) they would have sold their children to get it done. And it would be impossible to hide all the evidence from all the reporters.

Pretty funny to think the muslims could plan such an elaborate attack and not see how badly it would play out for the muslim world by leaving all their countries in shambles...
It didn't turn out badly from their perspective. They're worse than Klingons! Seriously, every day is a good day to die for Islamofascists.

---------

I think you guys are conflating things. On the one hand, you see the Federal Reserve destroying the financial system with a willful policy of inflation while the US government heartily approves. From that, you draw the conclusion that the federal government would be willing to murder thousands of innocent people for some gain.

But that's too much of a leap. The Fed actually thinks they're doing a good thing.

Horn

13th July 2014, 11:46 PM

And it would be impossible to hide all the evidence from all the reporters.

The evidence was sold as scrap to China within a week or so.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

When your working with the best on the planet, nothing is impossible, and nothing needs to be hidden. Just ask Jamie Dimon.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jewish%20Lightning

As far as the media goes they don't need to hide anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xefMM7m2YfE

EE_

14th July 2014, 05:39 AM

OK, fruit loops, why did the media cover it up?
If you haven't noticed, the media is owned by the zionists and news is read from a script.

If it took weeks to place charges, where are the workers that did it?
Charges could have been placed in one night through an elevator shaft.

Why didn't someone involved spill his guts for the book contract of the century?
A very small group only knew and he/her would be dead before that would happen.

Why didn't anyone notice explosives being shipped to the trade center?
Someone noticed explosives in a moving van being driven across the bridge by Israelis, they were let go.

Why didn't anybody who lived, worked and played in those towers notice the unusual activity?
The people that died didn't know, those that didn't had other things to do that day.

And why, oh why, didn't CBS, NBC, ABC and CNN blame George W. Bush????
They blamed him for creating Hurricane Katrina.
The media viscerally, passionately and insanely hated and still hates President Bush, so if there were any way possible to smear him with this (even if only that it was done on his watch) they would have sold their children to get it done. And it would be impossible to hide all the evidence from all the reporters.
If the zionist controlled media exposed George Bush, it would have exposed Israel.

It didn't turn out badly from their perspective. They're worse than Klingons! Seriously, every day is a good day to die for Islamofascists.

---------

I think you guys are conflating things. On the one hand, you see the Federal Reserve destroying the financial system with a willful policy of inflation while the US government heartily approves. From that, you draw the conclusion that the federal government would be willing to murder thousands of innocent people for some gain.
Since when did the federal government have any regard for human life?
Do you think all the lives sacrificed in bullshit wars were/are just? The lives lost sure weren't the children of the politicians and bankers. What about the 100's of thousands of lives taken in all the countries we had no business being in? Justified?

But that's too much of a leap. The Fed actually thinks they're doing a good thing.
Yes they are doing a good thing!...for themselves.

Neuro

14th July 2014, 03:19 PM

I believe anyone who thinks otherwise if a fruit loop.

Why is it easier to believe our government, and the Bush Administration at that, would kill thousands of innocent people than to believe it was done by a psychotic band of savages who profess a love of death and a hate of free civilization?
You are taking about the Israeli's?

Anyhow I find it impossible Al Qaeda could orchestrate a controlled demolition of WTC 1,2 and 7, from their caves in Afghanistan.

I doubt you would find a single member on this site that agrees with your assessment that the governments report on 9/11, pointing the finger at Al Qaeda solely is correct, so what are you doing here discussing with a bunch of 'fruit loops'? Isn't that self destructive behavior? :)

KenJackson

14th July 2014, 07:33 PM

osoab

14th July 2014, 08:08 PM

There are a at least two confusing threads in this thread.

When I found this forum, I thought that pretty much everyone had come to believe as I have about the economy. That is, that the US government has been irresponsibly spending well beyond its means for decades and passed some irresponsible laws and policies that lead to the crash in 2008 and that the Fed thinks it's saving us (even while profiting) by printing loads and loads of cash. And I think we agree that the result will be the same as it has been everywhere that's been tried, including Weimer and Zimbabwe.

Further, I expected to find some self-sufficient survivors, some virtual currency investors, and of course, almost everyone would be buying PMs. And I indeed think I see all that.

I did not expect to find "truthers", as I believe you're called--those who question the truth of the attacks on 9/11/01. And I can't figure it out. I've said unflattering things about Islam, and no one rushed to defend Mohammad, so I doubt you're a bunch of Islamofascists. So what's the angle? I don't get it.

The other surprising find has been the subtle anti-Jew, anti-Israel theme. What's that about?

Did I actually say something about Israel? Where does this question come from?

You haven't figured it out yet Mr. Jackson? We all know that everything is a lie as presented, especially the purported reasonings.

When it comes to the Israeli's that Neuro brought into the discussion, Neuro is talking about the dancing Israeli's that were caught after they filmed the demolition of the towers.

Here is something you should take the time to listen. It's too bad Clint wasn't doing the interview. The guest is Richard Gage from AE911. About an hour and twenty minutes.

Radio Show Number 174, July 11, 2014 (http://corporationnationradioarchives.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/radio-show-number-174-july-11-2014/)

Lark from Texas fills in for Clint tonight! Guest: Richard Gage from http://www.ae911truth.org/

To Download:
http://corporationnationradioarchives.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/show174_july11.mp3

Horn

14th July 2014, 08:21 PM

So what's the angle? I don't get it.

Truth is a big seller around these parts Mr. Jackson, hence the precious metals stance with opposition to usury type fiat and taxation. Another large part of the forum broke away to form an offsite forum of their own called Truth in our time, you'd probably be even more put off over there...

There are no angles here as far as we can route them out, threads can take a mind of their own if you want them to, unless Neuro closes it for going too far off... :)

There is no The Truth, that's your own version, Here is only Truth in its unadulterated form. I was taught this early on when just a weebling padawan.

Now, where there any other questions with regards to 911 Truth?

osoab

15th July 2014, 02:32 PM

Did we lose Toucan Sam?

Horn

15th July 2014, 06:56 PM

Did we lose Toucan Sam?

Most are happy functioning at that level of empty space just beneath the all seeing eye...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-9FX7bhESs

KenJackson

15th July 2014, 08:53 PM

Truth is a big seller around these parts Mr. Jackson, ... There is no The Truth, that's your own version, Here is only Truth in its unadulterated form.

Wow. This is too bizarre.

It reminds me of a couple things. Over the centuries, gifted scientists have alternately adamantly argued and even proven that light is particles, and then light is a wave. You see waves behave one way and particles behave a very different way. It can't be both. Everyone at least agreed that was true. Then along came the double slit experiment, and oh good grief. Nobody really understood what THE TRUTH was after all. Even today it's not totally nailed down.

But the real irony is the commonality I'm seeing with Roswell. I haven't studied the 1947 Roswell crash much, so I may have the details wrong, but I think the army had a high altitude balloon which they floated over Russia carrying radiation measurement equipment so they could detect if the Russians were working on the atomic bomb. This was TOP TOP CODEWORD SECRET, so when the balloon crashed and some civilians got a peek, they had to come up with a story to deny it. Some junior officer allowed that aliens had crashed, but wiser people knew that no one would believe that for long, so they changed the cover story.

To this very day, there is a fierce following of people who KNOW THE TRUTH--that the filthy US Government is covering up an alien crash. It HAD to be! For one thing, someone found a material that when crumpled up would pop right back as if by magic. No one had yet seen mylar party balloons, so they figured it HAD to be material made by aliens.

In like manner, we may be developing a fierce following of those who can't believe that 19 reasonably intelligent and able-bodied Muslim men could learn to fly, buy plane tickets and box cutters and commit the unspeakable evil of September 11.

It is, indeed, hard to grasp how anyone could harbor that much hate. And it's hard to understand that the base of "one of the world's great religions" could be evil in such distilled and concentrated form. But it is so. Don't tell me about one truth if you refuse to see it.

Horn

16th July 2014, 01:40 AM

19 reasonably intelligent and able-bodied Muslim men... Don't tell me about one truth if you refuse to see it.

All named within 72 hours, and some with passports found at the scene.
Though not a single "indestructible" flight recorder was recovered from the day.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers_flt_11.html

Extra terrestrial aliens musn't be required to carry documentation.

osoab

16th July 2014, 04:58 AM

Wow. This is too bizarre.

It reminds me of a couple things. Over the centuries, gifted scientists have alternately adamantly argued and even proven that light is particles, and then light is a wave. You see waves behave one way and particles behave a very different way. It can't be both. Everyone at least agreed that was true. Then along came the double slit experiment, and oh good grief. Nobody really understood what THE TRUTH was after all. Even today it's not totally nailed down.

But the real irony is the commonality I'm seeing with Roswell. I haven't studied the 1947 Roswell crash much, so I may have the details wrong, but I think the army had a high altitude balloon which they floated over Russia carrying radiation measurement equipment so they could detect if the Russians were working on the atomic bomb. This was TOP TOP CODEWORD SECRET, so when the balloon crashed and some civilians got a peek, they had to come up with a story to deny it. Some junior officer allowed that aliens had crashed, but wiser people knew that no one would believe that for long, so they changed the cover story.

To this very day, there is a fierce following of people who KNOW THE TRUTH--that the filthy US Government is covering up an alien crash. It HAD to be! For one thing, someone found a material that when crumpled up would pop right back as if by magic. No one had yet seen mylar party balloons, so they figured it HAD to be material made by aliens.

In like manner, we may be developing a fierce following of those who can't believe that 19 reasonably intelligent and able-bodied Muslim men could learn to fly, buy plane tickets and box cutters and commit the unspeakable evil of September 11.

It is, indeed, hard to grasp how anyone could harbor that much hate. And it's hard to understand that the base of "one of the world's great religions" could be evil in such distilled and concentrated form. But it is so. Don't tell me about one truth if you refuse to see it.

So you don't believe the government when it comes to anything they spout about the economy, but you take their word as "truth" regarding some crazy muzzies? Right...

Horn

16th July 2014, 09:44 AM

Nobody really understood what THE TRUTH was after all.

And as was stated prior, knowing "the truth" is rather pointless with regards to evident truth. It "the truth" is not understood, because it is non-evident and therefore not able to be defined. A truth would be that light is a particle with wave like properties.

Or 4 planes damaged 4 buildings, while one of them didn't even make it to its destination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo1BFV7MHzM

^Truth in Flight 93's remains^

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/shootdown.html

6549http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2654/wtc7cbs1gd4.gif

^the 47 storey King Salomon Brothers building (WTC7) "close to" the world trade centers has also collapsed^

Any hoping strategic force dividing those 4 planes amongst those destination targets should also do well to provide redundancy in its plans, for if one fails the other can deliver a target. In retrospect, a "passion of insurmountable hatred" would have one (1) precise target chosen in my estimation, strategy to disrupt wouldn't be a consideration or enter into any of the equations.

We've all seen the results of hatred's fools rushing in.

osoab

23rd July 2014, 07:40 AM

Have we lost Mr. Jackson? No log in since 7-16.

Horn

23rd July 2014, 08:00 AM

Have we lost Mr. Jackson? No log in since 7-16.

Malaysian flight?

KenJackson

23rd July 2014, 08:09 PM

Have we lost Mr. Jackson? No log in since 7-16.

Am I supposed to check in once in a while?
Do I entertain you?
Or do you secretely fear I know "the truth"?

I was delighted to find this site full of people to commiserate with over the coming collapse of the dollar and with which to discuss preparations.

But I'm disappointed to find some that have been deceived by the depth of evil that drives the islamofascists, perhaps even blaming the Jews for everything bad, just as the Nazis did and the jihadis do.

The qualified interest in virtual currency is a bonus. I'm very excited about the bitcoin phenomenon but still skeptical and cautious. I gather many here are in the same camp.