Malaysia Airlines shot down over Ukraine

[Glass]

Really? Malaysian airlines? It appears to be confirmed but I'm not seeing it elsewhere yet. Also claims of a fighter shot down, however that story is older so maybe the plane was first thought military, now thought civilian.


Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 Reportedly Shot Down Over Ukraine

Update: so yes, it was shot down according to flashing headlines.


MALAYSIAN PASSENGER JET WAS SHOT DOWN AT 10 KM ALTITUDE: IFX

While we hope it is a horrific accident, and has yet to be officially confirmed by Malaysian Airlines, the timing is oddly coincidental. From Bloomberg.


INTERFAX SAYS PLANE MAY HAVE CRASHED NEAR RUSSIA-UKRAINE BORDER
MALAYSIAN BOEING 777 MAY HAVE CRASHED IN UKRAINE: INTERFAX

The crash happened near Donetsk and the plane had 280 passengers on board. The question is - accident? Or was it shot down by Russia or Ukraine as a provocation.


The passenger jet was bound for Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam, Interfax reports, citing an unidentified aviation official.

Airliner began losing altitude 50 km before entering Russian air space; wreckage was found burning on Ukrainian territory

Crash happend near Donetsk, where Ukrainian govt troops are fighting rebels: IFX

As ITAR-TASS reports, (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741158)


Boeing 777 passenger airplane of Malaysian Airlines crashed on the territory of Ukraine in 60 km from the Russian border, a source in air traffic control circles told ITAR-TASS.

The source noted that the flight was supposed to enter the Russian air space at 17:20 Moscow standard time (13:20 UTC).

“However, it fell down in 60 km from the border; the plane’s emergency location beacon went off,” the source said.



ZeroHedge story (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/malaysian-airlines-boeing-777-crashes-near-ukraine-russia-border-interfax-reports)

[Glass]

Flight path. It seems to be confirmed that the plane is no longer transponding. Waiting for on the ground confirmation now.


Here Is The Real-Time Flight Path Of The Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH 17

Update: reportedly Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that plane "Kuala Lumpur -Amsterdam" went off the radar in Donetsk oblast, possibly shot down"
First it was MH-370. Now, it appears tragedy has struck again, this time on Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17, on route from Amsteram to Kuala Lumpur, which disappeared from radar moments ago and was reportedly shot down over Ukraine. While there is nothing yet officially confirmed by the carrier, the radar tracked path of the airplane is shown below.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20path%202_0.jpg


ZeroHedge story (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/here-real-time-flight-path-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh-17)

[Glass]

Ok so Separatist Rebels now accused of shooting it down with using BUK missile system. Interesting to know that at this stage of the events.

I'm seeing it reported widely now.

That didn't take long for the Ukrainian government to know exactly what happened:

*UKRAINE REBELS SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PLANE, GERASHCHENKO SAYS; But
*DONETSK SEPARATISTS SAY NOT INVOLVED IN PLANE CRASH: INTERFAX
All 280 passengers and 15 crew were killed in the crash. The Malaysian Airlines jet was shot down by the BUK Missile System according to Interfax.


Another ZH story (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/fingerpointing-begins-ukraine-accuses-rebels-shooting-down-airplane-rebels-deny)

[Glass]

Sorry if this is spamming. Looking to see if I can find something about the journalist story as there is no link, just a claim.


Official: Malaysian plane shot down over Ukraine






Jul 17, 11:39 AM (ET)

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — An adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister says a Malaysian passenger plane carrying 295 people has been shot down over a town in the east of the country.
Anton Gerashenko says on his Facebook page the plane was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters (33,000 feet) when it was hit Thursday by a missile fired from a Buk launcher.

A similar launcher was seen by Associated Press journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday


link (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140717/eu--ukraine-plane-7b20763204.html)

[Glass]

Older Story says Separatists have Sam-6 missiles. You can have both can't you?
This BBC story reported 15th is about a transport plane shot down on the 14th.

Plane dispute In Monday's incident, Ukrainian officials said the An-26 had been hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft) and must have been targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia.

When fully loaded, the plane can fly at 7,600m.


BBC Story (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28309034)

So Separatist missile claim may be confirmed but who shot plane down is not.

Seems people were trigger happy in those parts. Story also has claims Russian airforce could have done it. There was a rocket attack in retaliation and again everyone is pointing finger.

[Horn]

New thread?

[Dogman]

Or re-title the thread,



Whack-A-Malaysian Airline

[Glass]

BBC Now reports that 10,00metres altitude is too high for shoulder fired missle. IT would required guided missile system. Suggesting now that plane may have crashed without being shot down.

Part of longer story

Analysis: Jonathan Beale, BBC News A defence expert has told the BBC that shooting down a plane at 10,000m (9.7 miles) would have required a long- range surface-to-air missile - possibly guided by radar.

That suggests it is unlikely it could have been downed by a portable air defence missile, or Manpad, which has a much shorter range.
The only other possibility is for an aircraft at that height to be downed by a fighter carrying air-to-air missiles.
The US will have access to satellite imagery that should be able to identify ultra-violet plumes if a long-range surface-to-air missile was fired.



BBC Link (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856)

[Dogman]

Jackie did it!

[Glass]

Thought about it didn't see the point of a new thread. Up to Mods.

[Dogman]

Thought about it didn't see the point of a new thread. Up to Mods. Maybe a new thread with your posts transfered over.

Yes same country of origin,

BUT this one maybe a real stinker as far as maybe Russia was behind it.

Cannot hide this one like the first one in an ocean.

Split this thread, and new title for the new one. would be my request to the mods.

[Glass]

Split this thread, and new title for the new one. would be my request to the mods.

Ok to ask in here. Can we do this please Mods? New thread from post # 290?

Malaysian Airlines Flight Reportedly Shot Down Over Ukraine

or something

[Horn]

I remember reading something on how Malaysia wasn't playing along so well in the typical global USury banking cabal scheme of things.

[Horn]

Ok to ask in here. Can we do this please Mods? New thread from post # 290?

Malaysian Airlines Flight Reportedly Shot Down Over Ukraine

or something

Neuro only works well at crackin backs,

you'll probably have to wait two weeks for an appointment from JQP. :)

[Glass]

I remember reading something on how Malaysia wasn't playing along so well in the typical global USury banking cabal scheme of things.

There was that court case, human rights or war crimes or something. And their Ex-Prime Minister guy is outspoken as well.

Russian ruble is tanking post news.

[Glass]

Video at a distance. Lot of smoke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=12QohtqJhXg

[Glass]

Subtitles: There was explosion and the plane fell down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho3S38i1Nsw

I want to follow this but its getting late.

[Horn]

Definitely surface to air, much more contained smoke than the air to air used at flight 93 on 911.

[Glass]

images from scene. Much wreckage and many bodies

ZH again (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/first-photo-emerges-malaysian-airlines-plane-wreckage)

and here also (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/russian-tv-live-coverage-malaysian-airlines-jet-crash)

[Dogman]

Hyper IMO you just entered the land of the spammer in my mind!

On your own threads OK.

But there are limits.

pure spam!

[JohnQPublic]

So, we found the missing 777? False flag to start a war with Russia? They could not be that stupid could they?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE_PLANE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-07-17-12-47-41

[Horn]

So, we found the missing 777?

Flight # 17


At least 30 Dutch-speaking passengers were on the plane, according to two travel agencies which sold tickets for the flight. According to Dutch newspaper websites, several Dutch passports were found near the scene of the crash.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-east-ukraine

Its rather impossible to avoid flying Dutchman anywhere you go Internationally.

[old steel]

It was immediately blamed on Russia. In a few minutes time.

How did everybody know?

What a coincidence, huh?

http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/

[Horn]

It was immediately blamed on Russia. In a few minutes time.

How did everybody know?

What a coincidence, huh?

http://www.bollyn.com/are-the-israelis-planning-another-9-11-using-the-missing-777/

Because they know Russia has the detailed Blackmail info. on the previous missing flight.

Many carriers will probably have to layover in Moscow now, to avoid Ukraine airspace. Its a win for Putin & co. I doubt he will argue the blame too much.

[Horn]

Amazing how fast they get a wiki up on it.


Flightradar24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flightradar24) reported that a Singapore Airlines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines)Boeing 777 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777), and an Air India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India)Boeing 787 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787), were only 25 kilometres away from the airliner when it disappeared.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) was a scheduled international passenger flight from Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Airport_Schiphol) to Kuala Lumpur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_International_Airport). The Boeing 777-200ER (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777-200ER) crashed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

So there were many overlapping in the same small area... I think they lost a few flights on 911 that same way.

[EE_]

While everyone's attention is focused on the terrorist attack of FT17, Israel's ground assault on the Palestinians is about to begin. What better cover for Israel to do what it's been wanting to do all along, slaughter all of Palestine.
I wouldn't be suprised if Israel took down the airliner.

[gunDriller]

While everyone's attention is focused on the terrorist attack of FT17, Israel's ground assault on the Palestinians is about to begin. What better cover for Israel to do what it's been wanting to do all along, slaughter all of Palestine.
I wouldn't be suprised if Israel took down the airliner.

that's about what i was thinking.


Shootdown of Iranian airliner, by the US.

TWA Flight 800 - US military is running AEGIS testing/ Missile Defense testing in Long Island Sound. 800 is in the wrong place at the wrong time. sort of accidental, sort of deliberate. and, today is literally the anniversary.

Lockerbie - Syria or Libya took the blame, but they never explained the 'magic suitcase'. Israel's fingerprints.


and now this.


Israel used the Ukraine as a staging area for their attack on Iran. When Russia was doing some house-cleaning in the Ukraine, they blew up Israel's Ukraine arsenal.

Ukraine is a very likely place for Israel & the US to use as a proxy.

[Horn]

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/51e946566bb3f74a4400002d-1200-706/obama-31.png

"Putin reiterated the need for the immediate and unconditional cessation of hostilities by both parties in the south-east of Ukraine, [which] has led to numerous deaths and forced hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians to seek refuge in Russia," the Kremlin said in its readout, according to a Google translation.

The Kremlin also noted Putin expressed "serious disappointment" over the U.S.'s decision to impose new sanctions on Russia.
Here's the full readout of the call from the White House:

President Obama spoke with Russian President Putin today about the situation in Ukraine and the additional sanctions on Russian individuals and entities that the United States announced on July 16.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mh-17-plane-crash-obama-putin-2014-7#ixzz37lLcO36Z

[old steel]

7, 7, 7.....

It was also designated as MH17...On 7-17...a Boeing 777, 3 Days before 7-20 and it may be the same jet as MH370...

Lots of sevens there, just like in the speech given by Christine Lagarde of the IMF regarding the magic of the number 7.

Malaysian plane MH-17 on July 17th (today) Boeing 777 (model of the plane), crashed at 5:17 (17:17) local time.

So then, i guess we can assume it has begun?

[old steel]

http://i.imgur.com/fp4HGMy.jpg

[Glass]

7, 7, 7.....

It was also designated as MH17...On 7-17...a Boeing 777, 3 Days before 7-20 and it may be the same jet as MH370...

Lots of sevens there, just like in the speech given by Christine Lagarde of the IMF regarding the magic of the number 7.

Malaysian plane MH-17 on July 17th (today) Boeing 777 (model of the plane), crashed at 5:17 (17:17) local time.

So then, i guess we can assume it has begun?

This occurred to me too while I was trying to nod off last night. 17-7-2014 or 17-7-7 using compression. I think you can compress 17 into 7 but could be wrong. it would then be 7-7-7. I don't think the data Lagarde was referring to was 20 July. I think it was 7th July. Not sure what happened on that date. Did the current problems with Gaza begin around then?

So still finger pointing and claiming a missile downed it. Someone here linked it to the Lockerbie. I think it has similarities. What we need is for people on the ground to try and find some airframe numbers BECAUSE these can be looked up on line just as the OP thread found that other Malaysian jet (a 2nd one) parked up in a hanger.

[Horn]

I think you can compress 17 into 7 but could be wrong.

No you can't, and please quit trying to, you will hurt yourself.

[Horn]

Holy shit, I posted that at 1:07 London time. :)

[Glass]

I'm hearing there was a recording of a telephone call made by one of the crew who shot this down. Suggesting its the Rebels.

Social media posts by pro-Russian insurgents - most of them hastily removed - suggest the rebels thought they had shot down a Ukrainian army plane before realising in horror that it was in fact a packed Malaysian airliner.
The Twitter and blog messages were immediately publicised by top Kiev officials in their furious information war with the Kremlin in the aftermath of the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.


Meanwhile, a YouTube channel purportedly run by the Security Service of Ukraine has released audio of what it claims are pro-Russian militants taking responsibility for shooting down flight MH17.
The audio’s veracity has not yet been confirmed, but the Security Service of Ukraine’s official website has published a link to the YouTube video.

[Libertarian_Guard]

I'm hearing there was a recording of a telephone call made by one of the crew who shot this down. Suggesting its the Rebels.

The BBC is playing this call in it's entirety.

They had it on 10 or 20 minutes ago.

[Horn]

So there were 3 commercial airliners at 30k+ feet within 25km of eachother,

and Malaysian Airlines happened to be mistakenly/accidentally singled out.

Why not send up 3 rockets to knock out the entire formation?

[Neuro]

New thread?
Done! Left out some spam!

[Glass]

thanks muchly for the clean up.

[Cebu_4_2]

Spam? never here....

[Serpo]

DAHBOO77 (https://www.youtube.com/user/DAHBOO77)




(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ)Malaysian Plane Crash Video Shows Ground Explosion, Not Missile Explosion In Air!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ)

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=6TOXeMF4kq8#t=26




Bombshell! Proof That Malaysia Flight MH17 Was Diverted Over Ukraine War Zone!





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQ_8_KUT3w&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ



BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!


He says that message about plane going down was recorded a day before...................


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[Glass]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ" target="_blank"> (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ)

According to the Telephone call that has been released between rebels and I guess their HQ, there were bodies were strewn widely and they started to come across the bodies a long way from the plane wreckage. It does seem odd you can't see anything in his video but they are a long way away. You might not actually see anything from that distance. Witnesses in earlier videos said they could see things falling but you could not make it out on the video and I would estimate the distances would be similar based on size of smoke plume. Post #17 in this thread.

The other video about the flight being off the usual flight path was interesting. Malaysian airlines flying all over the place except where they should be.

[Horn]

Done! Left out some spam!

U came thru like a real Darkhorse there, Neuro.

[Libertarian_Guard]

According to the Telephone call that has been released between rebels and I guess their HQ, there were bodies were strewn widely and they started to come across the bodies a long way from the plane wreckage. It does seem odd you can't see anything in his video but they are a long way away. You might not actually see anything from that distance. Witnesses in earlier videos said they could see things falling but you could not make it out on the video and I would estimate the distances would be similar based on size of smoke plume. Post #17 in this thread.

The other video about the flight being off the usual flight path was interesting. Malaysian airlines flying all over the place except where they should be.

One question about that phone call.

WTF were they speaking english?

Reminds me of the "baby milk" factory video.

[Serpo]

Malaysia Flight MH17: What The MSM Isn't Telling You!





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_mBPDh3Dg&amp;index=3&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EY xg8t1dQ

[Glass]

One question about that phone call.

WTF were they speaking english?

Reminds me of the "baby milk" factory video.

daboo7 is saying that the telephone recording was posted to youtube before the crash. All I heard on MSM about the phone call was that there was one, however it had not been verified and that it had been pulled. So it would seem odd you would pull it so quickly. He could be on to something.

Serpo's posting like a ninja, trouble keeping up with the incoming info.

I still think it's still too far away to pick up smaller stuff. Also how long would it take for something to fall 10Km's? Would it have travelled in some kind of arc so the impact location is too far away from the where the guy was filming.

[Horn]

Well if any of the family members learn the flight was diverted from the last 10 flight paths and into hostile airspace,

they should find some answers as to why and who.

[Libertarian_Guard]

U came thru like a real Darkhorse there, Neuro.


"Si ma mémoire ne me fait pas défaut"

[Horn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic_mBPDh3Dg&amp;index=3&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EY xg8t1dQ

Good points there, if it was hit with one those big BUK cartridges,

there'd be a huge blast in the sky, and very little on the ground, or enough left to explode.

[Glass]

Analysis of the alleged Telephone call regarding the downed plane between Separatists and their HQ.

there are 2 YT versions of the phone call which seem to have different time stamps on them. 1 video shows the conversation occurs over 3 distinct calls at 3 different times. The other video is of the same conversations but with different time stamps. Both videos produced by same people. The time stamps are related to the times the conversations occurred not the time they were posted to YT.

The 3rd video is of an event that happened in June and was produced by the same people who produced the 2 YT's above.

YT of telephone conversation - one of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw&amp;feature=player_embedded

Others here (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17

[Glass]

Zerohedge seems to be getting hammered today. Especially images. They seem to be having some folder permissions issues on their web server.

[Serpo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4bkgtIZTQ&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[Glass]

I saw an image somewhere that looked like a web page of Malaysian Airlines flights from Amsterdam. It appears they fly the route each day and it showed a list of the past 5 or 6 days of this specific flight. Then it had Cancelled for the flight of the 17th.

When I saw it I thought, ok, it is just one way of saying there was a problem with the flight. There were probably only a few set choices to choose from to indicate the status of the plane and "Cancelled" would be one but "Crashed in a burning wreck" would probably not be an option that can be selected.

But now someone suggests that what it really meant was that the plane did not even take off. I think that's a stretch but if anyone sees that screen shot can you link it up here please?

A lot of Alt media web sites seem to be having problems today, especially with linked images related to this story. It seems they are google hosted images. go figure.

[Horn]

http://i.imgur.com/fp4HGMy.jpg

This one? Yeah I don't think they have a node for crashed and burn.

[Glass]

That was exactly what I saw. thanks Horn. Thanks old steel.

This video is in post #50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=BbyZYgSXdyw

I'm sitting here thinking and it strikes me. The subtitles of the video, which we have to assume is accurate. I'm sure people say if it is not. Here is what is in the subtitles:

The plan broke into pieces in the air, near Petropavlovskaya mine. There is the first two-hundreth (dead), we have found the first two-hundreth. It's a civilian.

If they have just encountered the first body, how do they know there are at least 200 dead people? They are just discovering that the plane was a civilian plane. Yet they know to expect to find about 200 bodies. maybe the guy can see a fair few bodies and guestimates 200?

[Horn]

Was MH17 flying through warzone to save fuel? Other planes shown steering well clear of disupted area


The airspace Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was flying in when it was shot down was not restricted, but airlines had been warned about the potential dangers, it has emerged.

The International Transport Association said that an initial assessment revealed that the airspace the aircraft was travelling through was 'not subject to restrictions'.

The Malaysian Airlines flight lost contact with aircraft control when it was flying over eastern Ukraine.
Nine Britons and 27 Australians, according to Dutch authorities, and fears of up to 23 Americans are among the 295 that have lost their lives.
The Geneva-based group said in a statement: 'Based on the information currently available, it is believed that the airspace that the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.'

The Boeing 777 was flying just 300 metres above restricted airspace when it was shot down.
Ukrainian authorities had barred aircraft from ground level to 32,000 feet but the downed aircraft was cruising at 33,000 feet, still within range of ground-to-air missiles, when it was hit.
There was speculation that the doomed Flight MH17 had taken a short-cut across the disputed region of eastern Ukraine to save fuel.
As relatives gathered at airports for news of missing loved ones, it emerged that airlines had twice been warned about the risk of flying over an area where two Ukrainian military aircraft had
already been shot down this week.
In April, the International Civil Aviation Organisation advised carriers to consider alternative routes after outlining ‘the possible existence of serious risks to the safety of international civil
flights’.
On Monday, Eurocontrol – the body that coordinates all traffic across European airspace – sent out an official note to airmen,known as a Notam, repeating the warning and saying it ‘strongly
advises’ avoiding the airspace.

But many carriers continued to use the route because it was shorter and therefore cheaper.
Flight MH17 had taken off from Amsterdam at lunchtime and was flying at around 33,000ft on one of the main routes from Europe.
The jet was travelling at 33,000 feet at 490 knots when it disappeared from radar screens while approaching the Russian border.
It is believed that the Malaysian Airlines pilots ignored several warnings to avoid the airspace over Ukraine. It is understood the Malaysian Airline jet used the Ukrainian route to save fuel as diverting north or south would have taken longer.
Earlier on Thursday, air accident investigators were planning to inspect the proposed flight plan lodged by pilots on board Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 to see if they flew over a warzone as a cost-cutting measure.

The 17-year-old jet was shot down over eastern Ukraine despite British, European and U.S. commercial aircraft being warned against using the airspace since April.
One aviation expert revealed: 'Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, have been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money.'

In April, the European Aviation and Safety Agency warned: ‘Taking into consideration the recent publication by the Russian Federation of a series of notices to airmen (NOTAMs) modifying the Simferopol FIR which is under the responsibility of Ukraine, and their intent to provide air traffic services (ATS) within this airspace, the Agency draws the aviation communities’ attention to the possible existence of serious risks to the safety of international civil flights.
‘Due to the unsafe situation where more than one ATS provider may be controlling flights within the same airspace from 3 April 2014, 0600 UTC onwards, consideration should be given to measures to avoid the airspace and circumnavigate the Simferopol FIR with alternative routings. ‘

On July 8, the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine closed its airspace to civilian aircraft after rebels shot a military transport aircraft that was flying over 20,000 feet.

The restriction warned commercial aircraft against using Ukranian airspace.
A Notice to Airmen, seen by Mail Online warned: ‘Due to the potential for conflicting air traffic control (ATC) instructions from Ukrainian and Russian authorities and for the related potential for misidentification of civil aircraft, UK aircraft operators are strongly advised to avoid, until further notice, the airspace over Crimea, the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.’
The EASA supplied airlines with a list of alternative routes avoiding the conflict zone.
The U.S. Federal Aviation Authority had also banned its aircraft from the Crimea region.
The suspected shooting down of a large passenger plane while flying at altitude presents airlines and their passengers with an extremely serious new development in air travel, according to aviation experts.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696321/Why-MH17-flying-warzone-European-safety-watchdogs-warned-against-flying-Ukraine-April.html#ixzz37nZyN4xs
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline) | DailyMail on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail)

Much more at the link.

[Horn]

Looks like a no commercial flyzone is slowly being established between BRIC nations and the west.

Or a if you wanna take the risk zone.

[Serpo]

That didn't take long for the Ukrainian government to know exactly what happened:


*UKRAINE REBELS SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PLANE, GERASHCHENKO SAYS; But
*DONETSK SEPARATISTS SAY NOT INVOLVED IN PLANE CRASH: INTERFAX

All 280 passengers and 15 crew were killed in the crash. The Malaysian Airlines jet was shot down by the BUK Missile System according to Interfax.

The BUK Missile system:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/07/20140717_buk_0.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/07/20140717_buk_1.jpg)
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/07/20140717_buk1_0.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/07/20140717_buk1.jpg)

Curiously, Anton Gerashchenko, advisor to Ukraine ministry of internal affairs, had a prepared explanation for everything that happened half an hour ago, long before Ukraine even announced it would begin a probe into the flight crash:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/Geraschenko.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/anton.gerashchenko.7)
Average:


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/fingerpointing-begins-ukraine-accuses-rebels-shooting-down-airplane-rebels-deny

[Serpo]

That was exactly what I saw. thanks Horn. Thanks old steel.

This video is in post #50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=BbyZYgSXdyw

I'm sitting here thinking and it strikes me. The subtitles of the video, which we have to assume is accurate. I'm sure people say if it is not. Here is what is in the subtitles:


If they have just encountered the first body, how do they know there are at least 200 dead people? They are just discovering that the plane was a civilian plane. Yet they know to expect to find about 200 bodies. maybe the guy can see a fair few bodies and guestimates 200?

It mentions that 200 is code for dead body ,earlier..............

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZVnPwr8zj8

[Serpo]

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/gmorder/36603042/195862/195862_900.png



time of creation of clip made before plane shot down


http://gmorder.livejournal.com/1113736.html




(http://gmorder.livejournal.com/1113736.html)BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM#t=141

(http://gmorder.livejournal.com/1113736.html)

[Serpo]

Expert - Kiev Army 'Buk' Missile
System Shot Jetliner Down RT.com
7-17-14






Quote -

At the same time, Anton Geraschenko said on his Facebook page that the plane was targeted from the air defense missile complex "Buk".

RIA Novosti is citing its source who said that Kiev indeed deployed “Buk” in the Donetsk region.

Quote -

"But I can allege that it most likely was the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military * anti-aircraft defense, in particular * are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training.” - Pilot, Aviation Authority Yury Karash to RT



Full Story...


Groups that are fighting Kiev’s forces in eastern Ukraine have rejected any involvement in the incident, as there are reports that the plane was shot down.

The Donetsk People’s Republic claims its self-defense forces simply don’t have such military equipment.

Donetsk People's Republic PM Aleksandr Boroday has called the incident a “provocation by the Ukrainian military”.

“We confirm that the plane crashed not far from Donetsk,” Boroday said. “Representatives of Donetsk People's Republic have headed to the scene of the plane search.”

“Self-defense forces have no air-defense, which could target transport aircraft at that height,” he told Interfax.

“We have only MANPADs (portable anti-aircraft missile complex) which hit targets at 3-4 kilometers,” Sergey Kavtaradze, representative for Donetsk People’s Republic PM, also told journalists.

Russia’s military also says none of its military planes have been flying close to the Russia-Ukraine border on Thursday, RIA Novosti reported citing a military official.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has not ruled out that a Malaysian plane has been shot down.

“We don’t rule out that this plane was shot down and stress that Ukrainian forces did not fulfill any actions targeting in the air,” Poroshenko said. He added that an investigation commission will be launched.

At the same time, Anton Geraschenko said on his Facebook page that the plane was targeted from the air defense missile complex "Buk".

RIA Novosti is citing its source who said that Kiev indeed deployed “Buk” in the Donetsk region.

“According to the system of objective control, "Buk" division of the armed forces of Ukraine was relocated to Donetsk region on Wednesday. Now in Kharkov another division is being prepared,” the source said.

The sources stressed that aircraft flying at an altitude of over 10 kilometers can only be targeted by C-300 class weapons or ‘Buk”.

A source in Russia's federal air traffic agency Rosaviatsia has said that three days ago Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council closed the airspace over eastern Ukraine because of the so-called “anti-terrorist operation” that Kiev conducts in the region.

Earlier a representative of Donetsk People’s Republic said that civil aviation planes could not fly over Donetsk and Lugansk regions. He added that all necessary traffic control and navigation equipment was damaged.

“Dispatching support of all passenger flights is being conducted from Kiev. How this plane could be there - is not clear,” a representative of Donetsk People’s Republic said.

Patrick Lancaster, who was at the crash site of the Malaysian jet, said the self-defense forces on the ground have confirmed the plane was “definitely shot down.”

“Soldiers told us that there are bodies scattered all around the area… They’re waiting on the prime minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic to come and inspect the area,” he told RT.

The Boeing-777, whose maiden commercial flight was almost exactly two decades ago, had previously suffered ten serious incidents, according to the Aviation Safety Database.

“A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don’t just crash with no reason,” pilot and aviation expert Yury Karash told RT. “Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed a Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years ago. I can’t completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile.”

“I don’t know who could’ve shot it down. But I can allege that it most likely was the Ukrainian armed forces: simply because its military * anti-aircraft defense, in particular * are, unfortunately, unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention has been paid to their training,” he added.




http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-crash-ukraine-border/ (http://rt.com/news/173616-malaysian-crash-ukraine-border/%20)





http://www.rense.com/general96/exprtkiev.html

[Serpo]

UPDATE! ATC: HE WAS SHOT DOWN BY KIEV


Thursday, July 17, 2014 13:45






0



(Before It's News) (http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/07/spanish-atc-boeing-was-shot-down-2453082.html)
http://www.novorosinform.org/ (http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://www.novorosinform.org/news/id/3274)
Spanish dispatcher who was air traffic controller on the tower in Kiev, Ukraine, when Malaysian Boeing 772 disappeared from radar, left messages on his Twitter acoount:-” Before they take away our phones, or crack my head open HE WAS DHOT DOWN BY THE KIEV”
http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/362270/images/Boeing%20twit.jpg




He left about 10 messages, stating that two Ukrainian jet fighters followed the plane until it hit the ground. Also he clearly indicated, the first report came from Ukrainian military, right after communication failure, which he found very strange.

[EE_]

I haven't been totally tuned into the situation, but correct me if I'm wrong...at first the USI said Russian rebels shot down FT17 and US generals were quick to start making plans to assist the Ukrainian forces with weapons, training and imposing stronger sanctions on Russia.

Now that it is becoming apparent it was Ukrainian forces that shot it down, the media is playing it down as it's war and the Ukrainian forces just got carried away.

I think I'm hearing the US is now focusing on who supplied the missile, like they're trying to keep the blame connected to Russia. Is this about right.

I mean, it was obvious the USI wanted to blame Russia.

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDH2Z2_6Zw

[Horn]

I think that amateur video with the plane blown up on the ground put a wrench in the propaganda gears.

Now all propaganda direction is clearly "lets not push it any further" its not intentional, but accidental. Nothing to see here, move along.

[EE_]

I think that amateur video with the plane blown up on the ground put a wrench in the propaganda gears.

Now all propaganda direction is clearly "lets not push it any further" its not intentional, but accidental. Nothing to see here, move along.

The whole thing was only a big deal if it could be blamed on Russia. Now that it is becoming known the Ukraine forces did it, eh!

If the USI was justified getting involved had Russia been responsible...doesn't that make it right for Russia to get involved supplying the Russian rebels with arms and training to hold the Ukrainian forces accountable?

One beautiful thing about this for Oboma, is the IRS criminal fraud case and the shipping of 10's of thousands of diseased illegal criminals to cities in the US, has fallen out of the news.

[Serpo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html





Unconfirmed Video Malasian Plane Being Shotdown

Your thoughts.


Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffc_1405644832#rGgxEW8Se5t1izgm.99




http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffc_1405644832




also...........



. (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffc_1405644832)

Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli
Security Team At Amsterdam
Schiphol Airport? By Yoichi Shimatsu
Exclusive to Rense
7-20-14





As the only non-European journalist to cover The Hague inquiry into the Amsterdam crash of El Al flight 1862 (October 1992), which destroyed a Biljmeer district apartment complex, I discovered many aspects of the Israeli security set-up at Schipol International Airport and the role of the Mossad intelligence agency in secret operations there, one of Europe’s business transport hubs. This same airport spy network is very likely involved in the recent crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over the Ukraine.

Covering the Biljmeer crash for Japan Playboy, I uncovered the sordid facts of how the official investigation back then was undone by a large network of Israeli intelligence agents who paid hush money to victims’ families, pressured injured firefighters from filing lawsuits over radiation exposure, and suppressed data from the hangar where the wreckage was stored. The crippled El Al cargo jet, leased from UPS, had transported from JFK Airport in New York a secret load of weapons including plutonium, depleted uranium and a bioweapon called mycoplasm in its cargo bay before crashing on an attempt to return to Schipol Airport, in an operation directed by the Israeli intelligence service instead of Dutch flight officials.

Once again, this time in the destruction of MH17, there is an Israeli-connected air crash with political ramifications involving Israeli strategic interests, inside Israel exactly when its military launches an invasion of Gaza and in troubled Ukraine, a supplier of military electronics to the IDF.

Security at Schipol Airport is operated by ICTS, an Israeli-owned airport security company based in The Netherlands founded by former officers of the Shin Beit intelligence agency. Its subsidiaries are also involved in key security functions there, including ProCheck, Ramasso and I-SEC.

The Israeli security company has a record of staging false flag operations, including the September 11, 2001 attacks. ICaTS subsidiary Huntleigh provided passenger and baggage inspection services at Boston Logan Airport, where two of the four jetliners used in the 911 attack originated.

At Schipol Airport on Christmas 2009, ICTS allowed the “Underwear Bomber” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallah armed with explosives to slip past “sniffer” detectors to board a Detroit-bound Northwest flight, an incident that was a boon to Homeland Security and the global war on terrorism.

Initial information, even before the start of an official inquiry into MH17, raise serious questions of whether Israeli intelligence tampered with the flight controls and radar identification (transponder) system of the Malaysian-operated Boeing-777.

- MH17 deviated from the civilian flight path, which should cross close to the exit mouth of the Azov Sea, away from the current battle zone between the Ukraine military and militant ethnic Russian irregulars. Instead its navigation steered the jetliner on a more northerly course in contested airspace, where Ukraine military aircraft conduct both air strikes and troop transport missions, putting the Malaysian Airlines jet into jeopardy.

- The wide-body Boeing-777 jumbo jet is similar in profile to the Antonov (built by Kharkov Aircraft Industries in Ukraine) and Ilyushin (Russian-built) transport craft in service with the Ukraine military and air cargo fleets. At higher altitudes (MH17 was flying at 35,000 feet), the only way from ground level to identify a plane is by a coded radar response from its transponder signal. One possibility was that MH17 was programmed with a false responder code; while another problem could have been confusion with the transponder beam from a nearby Ukraine military craft. A more sinister scenario is the sending of a false ID signal from a ground-based vehicle.

In short, Israeli operatives could have loaded a bomb onto MH17 or used a false responder signal to lure a rebel missile battery to intercept a suspected incoming troop landing. Another issue for investigation, if these scenarios are verified, is the unspoken connection between the Boeing Corporation and the Israeli intelligence services. Boeing would have key data on tampering of any of its aircraft control systems, and both MH17 and MH370 were Boeing-777s.

Israeli intelligence had three possible motives for orchestrating a false flag incident blamed on ethnic Russians or on the Kremlin.

- first, the MH17 crash diverted international media attention from the launch of the Israeli invasion of Gaza, which is a serious rupture of existing peace accords and a massive assault on human rights. Malaysia is an outspoken voice in the UN and the world media on Palestinian rights in Gaza.

- second, Israel, even with the Zionist economic interests in Russia such as BP, has a historical interest in the 45 000-member strong Jewish community in the port of Odessa, which has a large stake in the financial sector, military electronics industry, missile production and weapons factories. PBN and GQR, lobbying organizations controlled by American Jewish neoconservatives, are the most influential force in Ukraine politics.

- third, the destruction of MH17 serves as a warning to the governments of Malaysia and Australia to cease any further investigation into the strong possibility that MH370 was hijacked by the Israeli military. MH370 was carrying engineers, designers, prototypes, specifications and a chip foundry for the world’s smallest microchip, the KL series. The leading edge technology is needed for Israel’s crash program to build a drone army, especially mini-robots capable of infiltrating Iran’s nuclear plants. (This writer has extensively researched a nd uncovered Israeli involvement in the MH370 hijacking at rense.com)

One point of bias that needs to be disclosed is that this writer is a sympathizer of Ukraine independence and opposes Russian intervention. In specific incidents, however, such as the destruction of MH17, one’s preferences must be set aside in pursuit of the facts relevant to the case. The Israeli role in this affair cannot be ignored, especially considering its abiding interests in independent Ukraine. Therefore, the Kiev government should launch an investigation into the possibility of sabotage by an ally so as not to harm& nbsp;its legitimacy by incriminating itself together with Israeli state-sponsored terrorism, legitimate grounds for reprisal by its adversary. A Ukraine that claims to be independent should try to be independent.

As an investigation team approaches the crash site, the real cover-up is yet to begin. The family members and friends of both targeted Malaysian Airlines jetliners are owed the truth and the culprits must be dragged to justice.

Yoichi Shimatsu is a science and technology journalist based in Hong Kong and former editor of The Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo.



(http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffc_1405644832)http://www.rense.com/general96/MH17.html

[Serpo]

Focus Sessions
I am a mom of 4 in my mid 30s. I have some psychic abilities (psychometry, paranormal/sensing passed loved ones, reading relationships & remote viewing). Things come to me by images in my mind, impressions, sounds, taste or smell. I clear my mind, focus on my topic and this blog is an example of what I get. I started doing e-mail readings 2012 & recently opened myself up to phone readings to further develop (info under Personal Request tab).








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odnOEFmKHTQ#t=81



http://psychicfocus.blogspot.com.au/

[Glass]

As I said earlier, It would have been great if someone could have found air frame number or something that we could look up and confirm was the scheduled craft for flight MH-17 or if it was the airframe from the MH-370 flight.

It seems odd but no one I know is even thinking that MH-17 could be MH-370 re-incarnate.

[old steel]

Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash

MOSCOW (AP) -- A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash - suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.

The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that "a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.




http://hosted.ap.org/photos/8/8f362c99-4515-4d18-9c1a-b52e4d84d3f9-big.jpg


FILE - In this Friday, July 11, 2014 file photo, Igor Girkin also known as Igor Strelkov, a pro-Russian commander, center, arrives for the wedding of platoon commander Arsen Pavlov and Elena Kolenkina in the city of Donetsk, eastern Ukraine. A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash _ suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off. The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday, July 18, 2014, quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.(AP


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/photos/8/8f362c99-4515-4d18-9c1a-b52e4d84d3f9.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Horn]

I actually thought of that after looking at those photos you posted after it crashed,

the positions of the bodies possibly stood out to me somehow.

Can't seem to find any now, only a couple guys putting their shirts over their nose.

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1389483/malaysia-airlines-mh17-ukraine.jpg

[Serpo]

The video below is purported to be of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine. Note that @11 seconds into the video Chaff streamers are floating down on to the wreckage site. Chaff is dispensed from military aircraft to obscure an aircraft from RADAR and RADAR guided missiles. The presence of the Chaff indicates something is not right about the story being told. IF this is video of the 777 shoot down in Ukraine, it indicates that a military aircraft was involved in the shoot down. This could be anything from a fighter actually shooting down the 777, to a fighter shadowing the 777 and having to launch Chaff to avoid a missile.
What ever the case, the glittering streamers and specs in the video show that the official story being told is not correct.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA#t=15


http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/07/mh17-shootdown-shows-chaff-was-deployed-proving-fighter-jet-was-somehow-involved-2453122.html

[Glass]

do we know if that video is of the Malaysian plane? There was a transport shot down in that area in the past week. It was low enough to be hit with a portable surface to air. That's the other possibility. In that video the plane shot down could be the military one.

We didn't see inside any passports found at the site. One identity was revealed I think but some photos of the passport identities would be gold right now. Air frame number and confirming someone on the passenger list is among the deceased. Not buying the already dead story yet. Anyone seen an account from another first responder to an air crash? Lockerbie maybe? What it was like.

"I noticed that I hadn't come across a single wallet with money, or a mobile phone or a camera. They've all mysteriously gone missing."
....................
The bodies are reportedly "starting to decompose in the fields" (http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-tragedy-chaos-at-crash-scene-amid-reports-of-looting-20140719-zuqib.html), yet Warwick said there was no indication as to when a recovery operation for the victims would take place.http://images.theage.com.au/2014/07/19/5608538/1405749367445.jpg-620x349.jpg

Full story @ the Age (http://www.theage.com.au/world/mh17-crash-site-freelance-journalist-filip-warwick-reveals-grim-first-views-20140719-zurxu.html)

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1X2oAmJ_Lo&amp;feature=player_embedded

[Serpo]

As I said earlier, It would have been great if someone could have found air frame number or something that we could look up and confirm was the scheduled craft for flight MH-17 or if it was the airframe from the MH-370 flight.

It seems odd but no one I know is even thinking that MH-17 could be MH-370 re-incarnate.

Bit like one of those movies ,just when you think the 370 thing is over ,it rears its head and comes back to life for one last scare.

[Horn]

I think both sides propaganda machines are so highly evolved truth may never be known.

Right now the overall take away is to not set foot on a Malaysian flight.

[old steel]

Bodies have that rigor mortis pose too them and a lack of blood at the scene, they were obviously dead for days before the crash.

http://picklesbear.imgur.com/all/

[Horn]

do we know if that video is of the Malaysian plane?

Wonder if anyone in particular shorted airlines stock before the incident?

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5913595/how-malaysian-airlines-downed-jet-tanked-american-airline-stocks

[Glass]

The passenger and cargo manifests can be found here
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-19/full-passenger-and-cargo-manifest-flight-mh-17

Some pictures of passengers passports at the link old steel posted.
http://picklesbear.imgur.com/all/

Just a heads up, I'm having troubles with that link. The web site seems to slow my pc right down and I haven't been able to save any of those images.

So I think we can match bodies on the ground with people on the plane.

[Horn]

Russia Today Correspondent Quits Over Plane Crash 'Lies'

A second Russia Today correspondent has quit her job, saying the Kremlin-funded station's anchors "do work for" Russian President Vladimir Putin and lied on-air to the public.

London reporter Sara Firth announced her resignation nearly two hours after taking to Twitter in a conversation with Russia Today's London correspondent Polly Boiko, The Huffington Post reported (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/sara-firth-resigns-russia-today-lies-anchor_n_5598815.html).

Firth said the network asks its anchors to "obscure the truth," and that she'd had enough.


Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Russia-Ukraine-reporter-quits/2014/07/18/id/583551#ixzz37wmRZ8sh
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now! (http://www.newsmax.com/surveys/Obama-Policies/Should-Congress-Repeal--Obama-s-Health-Plan-and-Ot/id/13/kw/default?PROMO_CODE=10EFE-1%22target=%22_blank%22)

[Horn]

Video emerges claiming to show final moments inside the cabin of MH17 before it took off on doomed flight


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697011/Video-emerges-claiming-final-moments-inside-cabin-MH17-took-doomed-flight.html

[Libertytree]

test

[Libertytree]

hmmmmm.....

[Horn]

Maybe you have to stop the thread from refreshing before you post, Neuro.

Seems to want to do that a number of times when entering it.

[Neuro]

Maybe you have to stop the thread from refreshing before you post, Neuro.

Seems to want to do that a number of times when entering it.
Ok took the cookies away seems like it is working!

[Serpo]

The Final Moments Of Flight MH-17: The Russian Side Of The Story http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 07/18/2014 22:53 -0400






inShare25


Yesterday, we laid out extensively (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17)what the official Ukrainian case was when it came to "proof" that Russian separatists had launched the Buk missile which allegedly took down flight MH-17; we also highlighted several glaring inconsistencies and questions that still remained open after the "incriminatory" YouTube clip release. So far, any international response has been muted to this hastily prepared evidence of Russian involvement, although the day is still young.
So what about the Russian side? Below we present the key arguments made by Russia to suggest that not it, but Ukraine, was responsible for taking down the Malaysian Boeing.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20take%20off_0.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20take%20off.jpg)
As reported earlier by RIA, (http://en.ria.ru/world/20140718/191010193/Russian-Defense-Ministry-Says-Intercepted-Ukrainian-Radar.html)the Russian Defense Ministry says it had intercepted the activity of a Ukrainian radar system on the day the Malaysian plane went down in eastern Ukraine, the ministry’s press service said Friday.
"Throughout the day on July 17, Russian means of radar surveillance intercepted the operation of the Buk-M1 battery’s Kupol radar station located in the region of the populated area of Styla [30 kilometers south of Donetsk]," the press service said in a statement.
“The technical capabilities of the Buk-M1 allow the exchange of data on air targets between batteries of one battalion. Thus, the launch of rockets could have also occurred from any of the batteries deployed in the populated area of Avdeevka [8 kilometers north of Donetsk] or from Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe [25 kilometers east of Donetsk],” the ministry said.
Then we go to Itar-Tass (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741192)which reported that civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday.
“Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said.
“During the combat actions in Donetsk’s airport the communication tower, a part of the united air control service was blown up,” he said adding that “planes cannot fly there.”
On July 8, Ukraine’s State Aviation Service banned all flights over the Donetsk and Luhansk regions aiming to provide “adequate safety and security for all flights of civil aircraft in favor of state aviation.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council took a decision to close the airspace over the area of the so-called anti-terror operation to commercial flights three days ago, Rosaviatsia reported.
This goes back to our post from last night in which we wondered just why and how did it happen that flight MH-17 diverted from its usual trajectory to fly over what was effectively restricted airspace. This also is the topic of a follow up piece by Bloomberg released overnight in which it was noted that "Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-18/malaysian-airline-took-flight-route-avoided-by-qantas-asiana.html):"



Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.
One hopes that all lingering questions about the flight path, and where the instructions to change it came from, will be answered when the contents of the flight black box are released.
And finally, as RT reported (http://russian.rt.com/article/41486), the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report.
We will ignore circulating reports of two Ukraine jets that may have followed the Boeing as there is, at least for now, zero direct or circumstantial evidence validating this story aside from one Twitter account which has since been deleted.
In brief the plot thickens, and all that matters now is whose propaganda, read media outlets, will be more persuasive although in reality even that is moot: in the echo chambers of ideology, most people already have their mind made up as to "who" the shooter was.
Average:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/final-moments-flight-mh-17-russian-side-story

[mick silver]

when did the usa start shooting down AIRPLANES FROM OTHER countrys .what day did this take place

[monty]

Testing. Posted from my ipad using Safari

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner

[collector]

when did the usa start shooting down AIRPLANES FROM OTHER countrys .what day did this take place

you're kidding, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[Horn]

With the change of flight paths, and the statement of inadequate radar capabilities. This should be figurable.

Of course, how those questions are answered are another thing.

[Serpo]

The MH17 Shoot Down over Ukraine http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/19/the-mh17-shoot-down-over-ukraine/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/21dfe48c2bb0501c5a0f6a7067000f0f-e1405783659589-640x291.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/21dfe48c2bb0501c5a0f6a7067000f0f-e1405783659589.jpg) The MH17 Shootdown … by Michael Shrimpton (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/shrimpton/)

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/a20aea262b8e501c5a0f6a7067006c31-e1405786464257-320x243.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/a20aea262b8e501c5a0f6a7067006c31-e1405786464257.jpg)The victims want to be avenged. I can guarantee you that, as I can that this will have again if we do not take care of business.

[ Editor's Note: We are obviously going to be following this fast-moving story and posting multiple articles with multiple sources and a variety of time periods to gather and analyze the material.
This is not all going to knit together into a nice simple picture, and you will see the words "provisional" and "unconfirmed" used to remind the readers that this is a work in progress.
But we do have a major tragedy crisis team of very experienced career professionals in all aspects for the event in question, from the pilots, the air to ground and air to air missiles, the radar capabilities, and what the satellites can catch.
We can already conclusively tell you that major information is being withheld by one or more major governments, so they can exploit the deaths of these murdered people for a geopolitical advantage. That is a hint as to who is behind the tragedy... and all of the others really.
As we have been reporting here consistently at VT, if the loyal people in our Intelligence and security services do not step forward to expose and hunt down all of those involved in this AND the past attacks, they will continue to happen. Based on what we have been able to learn, we know that most of the top people realize that compromised elements within various countries are running these operations... alone, or in conjunction with partners.
As long as they are left unexposed publicly, it is putting those withholding the information in an aiding-and-abetting complicity position. That this information is being classified to hide it is no longer a kosher item as protecting anyone's national security. It is quite the opposite.
There are working elements hunting them down and who have learned a great deal that will be put to good use. Of course this will be done at great risk, as it is going to make some very powerful people very unhappy, who have the capacity to reach out and touch someone, as do others.
A large national security threat is being allowed to continue on, unaddressed, while the taxpayers spend a fortune to have all of their own communications hoovered up for storage and analysis, ... such dereliction of duty would be viewed by many as treason... Jim W. Dean (http://www.veteranstoday.com/staff-writers)]

__________________________________ - First pulished July 19th, 2014 -
To paraphrase the late, great Oscar Wilde, to lose one Boeing 777 is a misfortune. To lose two starts to look like carelessness. On July 17, at around 1415 Zulu, yet another Malaysian Airlines 777-200ER was shot down, over the eastern Ukraine. This time it was the fate of 9M-MRD, Captain Eugene Choo Jin Leong in command.
Unlike MH370 the flight was full to capacity and there were 295 souls aboard. Tragically all were lost. I give the airline another two years at best. As with PanAm after the DVD brought down that 747 over Lockerbie it will be a slow death.
People are already cancelling flights on Malaysian, their insurance premiums will skyrocket faster than a Chinese SAM and their cashflow will go south, unlike MH370.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/fatima-Dyczynski-CEO-and-Director-Xoterra-Space-292x320.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/fatima-Dyczynski-CEO-and-Director-Xoterra-Space.jpg)Among the lost, Fatima Dyczynski – CEO and Director, Xoterra Space, visionary for Nano Satellites. May all the crew and passengers rest in peace.

At this time my provisional conclusion is that MH17 was shot down by an air defense battery of the Ukrainian army, from Ukrainian territory, using an SA-17 Buk missile. I respectfully associate myself with the statements of the Russian federal government on the issue.
My estimate is that a 9M317 single-stage, solid fueled missile was used, in semi-active homing mode. The 317 uses a radar proximity fuse and a direct hit can probably be ruled out. That is to say the warhead probably detonated away from the hull, perhaps as much as 50 feet away.
That is consistent with the eyewitness evidence, which is of the plane falling from the sky more or less intact, and breaking apart on impact, and the tight debris field. Although there was a post-crash fire most of the unfortunate victims seem to have died from negative G-forces whilst strapped into their seats.
The fact that most passengers were strapped in suggests that Captain Leong had time to warn his passengers of impending missile impact. There is some evidence that he took evasive maneuvers, correctly diving the aircraft to increase speed and mitigate damage due to explosive decompression.
MH17’s assigned altitude, by Ukrainian air traffic control, was FL330, or 33,000 feet. I suspect that Captain Leong or his first officer saw the incoming and, as indicated, dived, so that interception was at a lower altitude.
There is no evidence that the target fireballed at altitude, which rules out a direct hit on the fuel tanks, although we may find some shrapnel damage.

The mainstream media, who are rushing to blame Russia, or pro-Russian separatists, are showing typical aviation illiteracy, of the sort on display after MH370 was shot down. On that occasion, as regular readers of this column will recall, they did not understand that aviation fuel is light and evaporates. That basic technical deficiency led them to confuse the diesel slick from the sunk Chinese SSK with fuel from the downed airliner.
On this occasion they are reporting at one and the same time, sometimes on the same page, that the airliner was ‘blown out of the sky’ yet fell to the ground intact and broke apart on landing. In the UK the Sun is leading the race to come up with the silliest reporting, with respect. Its front page today was asinine. Its journalistic standards are in freefall to New York Times levels.
If the stricken airliner did not fireball and had time to take evasive action, it also had time to broadcast a Mayday message. The fact that it did not suggests that its radios were being jammed. We will probably find that its ACARS reporting system failed as well, as with MH370. I find it highly significant that there is a media blackout on the status on the ACARS system.
If the ACARS was disabled, or the radios were jammed, then the pro-Russian separatists can safely be ruled out, although as I explain below they can be pretty much ruled out anyway, as they lack the capability.

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The SA-17 http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/9A317-TELAR-of-Buk-M2E-320x283.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/9A317-TELAR-of-Buk-M2E.jpg)9A317 TELAR of Buk-M2E

The SA-17, which also has a naval variant, originally entered Soviet service in 1979, but it has been developed considerably since then, indeed the latest, SA-17, versions have a different Pentagon classification.
It is fired from either a Transporter-Erector Launcher (TEL), with four missiles, or a Transport-Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR), which I think can carry up to six missiles, depending on version. It is a highly capable system, in service with both the Russian and Ukrainian armed forces.
Some of the technology may have been transferred from the US during the Soviet period by DVD assets in Washington. The SA-17 is similar to the excellent Standard missile, indeed it is sometimes jokingly referred to as the “Standardski”.
The distinction between the TEL and the TELAR is important, because it is being said that Russian separatists captured a Buk launcher, although the evidence consists only of social media reports, a dubious source of information at best. The evidence, such as it is, is equally consistent with the Ukrainians setting the rebels up. The separatists themselves have strongly denied any high-altitude interception capability.
The Buk represented a significant improvement over the SA-6 Gainful which preceded it. There is no doubt that TELAR vehicles can both acquire and launch but significant doubt that a TEL on its own has any target acquisition capability.
So far as I can tell a TEL is basically a launch on visual confirmation of target system, i.e. pretty basic, rather like a shoulder-launched MANPAD. You see the target, point your missile in its rough direction and shoot, relying on the missile’s onboard target acquisition system (typically infra-red with MANPADs and semi-active with the Buk) to achieve lock-on, hoping another target does not get in the way.
The SA-17 is designed to be fired from a command vehicle, that is to say it is not so very different from the SA-6, where you needed three vehicles (radar, command vehicle and launcher). There is not the slightest evidence that the separatists acquired a command vehicle, indeed there is no reliable evidence that they acquired a TELAR. The most they might have got – and I am not buying even that – was a TEL.

If the most they have is a TEL then we can rule them out completely for a beyond visual range engagement, as happened yesterday. Even if they had a TELAR there is no evidence that they have anyone trained on the Buk. I do not buy the argument that it can be used by your average separatist, many of them no brighter than the average journalist or MP (no offense intended), without specialist training. There are no reports at all of the separatists having fired any training rounds, i.e. if it was them they achieved a long-range kill first time they fired the weapon. Not buying.
Missile speed for the 317 version is around Mach 4, giving Captain Leong no chance at all, given that his radars were switched on and no one showed him my work on MH370. An SA-17 warhead is typically around 70 kilos, or 154 pounds (there are different versions of the missile), enough to down a 777. It’s a big bird, around 18 feet long, weighing in at just over 1,500 pounds. It’s large enough for one of the pilots to have spotted its approach in broad daylight, given the good visibility. The solid fuel rocket engine has a burn time of around 15 seconds and leaves a highly visible exhaust trail.

The 317 has a range of about 27-28 miles. That is significant because MH17 was shot down about 25 miles from the Russian frontier. That is getting close to the limit of system capabilities for a launch from Russian territory. US intelligence sources are being quoted today as saying that the missile was fired from within the Ukraine, which makes sense to me, and is one of the reasons why I conclude, provisionally, that the Ukrainians were responsible.

______________________
Kiev Must Have Known It Was MH17 The next thing to note about the SA-17 is that it has a sophisticated phased-array fire control radar, capable of target differentiation. Assuming, as I am prepared to assume, that it was the Ukrainian army, then they must have known that it was MH17. A freely available phone app was all they would have needed to tell them where the flight was.
The target was flying along a designated airway at a typical altitude for a civilian airliner, probably with an active transponder until it was taken down after entering Ukrainian airspace. It was not maneuvering, at least not until it saw the incoming, and could not conceivably have been confused for a military aircraft, not least as it had been directed to the kill zone by Ukrainian air traffic control.

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Why MH17? http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Obama-Poroshenko-320x189.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Obama-Poroshenko.jpg)Poroshenko and Obama

It seems that the motive was to discredit Russia, and that nice man President Putin in particular. The Ukrainian attack on MH17 was obviously planned well in advance.
The preparations may have included fake entries on social media websites to the effect that the rebels had acquired an SA-17 launcher. So far as is known there were no persons of interest on board the plane, unlike MH370, save for the poor AIDS researchers.
It is wildly improbable that it is a coincidence that both shot down aircraft were Malaysian. Someone is making a point. Malaysian Airlines are being taken down. If you have any frequent flyer miles on Malaysian use them up now, preferably on a partner airline.
The Administration has also rounded on the Russians and the rebels. Its claim that the rebels were to blame is obvious nonsense, which is unlikely to have been supported by professional intelligence officers, who would have had access to pretty much the same ELINT as the Russians.
I entirely support Moscow’s claim to be in possession of ELINT data indicating that the target was painted by Ukrainian fire control radar, probably the organic fire control radar of a Ukrainian SA-17 battery.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/STSS-Concept-2011-US-can-track-it-all-320x235.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/STSS-Concept-2011-US-can-track-it-all.jpg)STSS 2011 concept – US can track it all

The total inability of the Administration to give the co-ordinates of this alleged rebel-controlled SA-17 launcher is telling. All that President Obama could say today was that the missile was fired from within a rebel-held area.
That, with respect, is an obvious lie, since the NSA would have overheads, as well as the ELINT data. If the attack genuinely came from a rebel-held area then you can bet your bottom dollar the Administration would be handing out the evidence.
It is likely that the attack was cleared by Kiev in advance, high up the payroll, with both Berlin and the White House. The FAA, which is penetrated and was implicated in helping to set up the Turkish Airlines DC-10 Paris Air Disaster, seems to have helped in setting up the rebels as patsies. The presence of only one US citizen on board carried obvious political attractions for the White House.
One must recall that the covert German DVD intelligence organisation has thoroughly penetrated the Obama Administration, at a senior level, and is in effective control of the German federal government. It is the world’s only intelligence agency which regularly attacks commercial airliners.
The Russians have never knowingly shot down a civilian airliner on a designated airway. I leave out of account KAL007 and the earlier KAL Boeing 707 incident, as those aircraft were well off course, were intercepted at night and had violated Soviet airspace without authorisation.

There is no reason at all to suppose that the Soviet fighter pilots thought they were attacking a Boeing 747, indeed there is no reliable evidence that KAL007 was even showing her navigation lights. As I point out in Spyhunter there are unanswered questions about that incident.

___________________
The AIDS Conference in Melbourne Australia The presence of so many AIDS scientists and researchers on board the flight is an obvious anomaly. It rather looks as though they added to the attraction for the DVD and Kiev – don’t forget that the Ukrainian regime is effectively a German puppet government.
I have long had my suspicions about AIDS. I am increasingly swinging towards the view that AIDS was created by the DVD as a bio-weapon. I am aware that CDC in Atlanta have their suspicions as well, indeed this column is now being read at CDC (hi guys!).
The selection of this particular flight (the Germans and Ukrainians could have chosen to shoot down a Schiphol-KL flight earlier this week or next week) tends to confirm that the DVD have an interest in hampering AIDS research.

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The Dutch Connection The Germans hate the Dutch, possibly because they are such nice people. Remember they invaded and raped Holland in 1940. The German occupation of the Netherlands was brutal. The ‘Jerries’ wasted no time in taking control again over Holland postwar, via the EEC, in 1958.
Again as revealed in Spyhunter, the DVD are implicated in at least two previous incidents of mass murder of Dutch citizens on civilian airliners, indeed the presence of so many Dutch citizens on one flight, flying over the territory of a German puppet state in a civil war with Russian backed rebels, who would be convenient patsies, was an obvious red flag.
Very frankly it should have been picked up by the excellent Dutch AIVD, indeed knowing how professional they are, it probably was. Intel warnings from the Good Guys are often blocked, not least where state bureaucracies have been penetrated by the DVD.

The first was the Tenerife Air Disaster, where a collision between an American (PanAm) and a Dutch (KLM) 747 was planned by the DVD and facilitated by a Luftwaffe ground radar unit. The second was the Tripoli Air Disaster, where the engines’ FADEC software was sabotaged.

___________________ http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/malaysia_airlines_boeing_banner-640x243.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/malaysia_airlines_boeing_banner.jpg)MH – 370


The Failure to Follow Up the MH370 Shoot Down Those who suppressed my warnings from the aviation community now have blood on their hands. Had poor Captain Leong known that the Bad Guys were deliberately firing long range missiles at airliners using semi-active homing he would have known better than to cruise over contested airspace with his radars turned on.
Had my advice, as given in Spyhunter and in this column after MH370 was shot down, been followed, then this tragedy would not have happened. It is upsetting to see lives thrown away in this casual manner.
At least my argument that airliners face high altitude missile threats, obvious from the time we realised that the Iranians had shot down TWA800 with a Phoenix, may now be given greater weight. Aviation security consultants have obsessed, dangerously, with MANPADS, which have a typical ceiling of only 12-15,000 feet.
It is a pity that Malaysian Airlines did not consult me after 370. Almost alone amongst aviation security experts I was alive to the high-altitude threat, indeed I am the only aviation intelligence specialist in the world to have gone public on the high altitude missile threat to airliners.
I would have advised strongly against flying through contested Ukrainian airspace. The FAA warnings and claims that the rebels had acquired a Buk would have been further red flags for me.

There it is, sadly. The airline rejected my claim that MH370 was shot down, or accepted it and participated in the cover-up, took no steps whatsoever to guard against the high altitude missile threat and have now lost another 777, 295 people and probably the airline itself into the bargain.

______

[old steel]

Video emerges claiming to show final moments inside the cabin of MH17 before it took off on doomed flight


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697011/Video-emerges-claiming-final-moments-inside-cabin-MH17-took-doomed-flight.html



Well at least there is wreckage their, unlike the site at Shanksville Pa.

[Horn]

Fatima Dyczynski at TEDxGroningen


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ0WhWLXsIE

nano satellites got grounded..

[Cebu_4_2]

Fatima Dyczynski at TEDxGroningen
nano satellites got grounded..

I wonder when she was suicided and put into the plane.

[old steel]

There is no way in hell i would have got on on a Malaysia Airlines Flight after the fiasco of 370.

[Serpo]

There is no way in hell i would have got on on a Malaysia Airlines Flight after the fiasco of 370.

Disappeared............shot out of the sky .............3rd time lucky...........


and this




MH17 Hauled Gruesome Cargo
In Infected Corpses And Tainted Blood (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?78307-MH17-Hauled-Gruesome-Cargo-In-Infected-Corpses-And-Tainted-Blood&p=718108#post718108)By Yoichi Shimatsu
7-19-14



In these still early hours following the mystery crash of MH17, one must dare to think the unthinkable. An investigator goes to where the evidence leads, and the evidence so far from the crash site indicates a hellish scenario beyond imagining.

Besides the nearly 300 passengers aboard the ill-fated Malaysian Airlines, the plane’s cargo bay was loaded with dozens of infected corpses drained of their blood and countless packets of possibly virus-contaminated blood serum, according to the local eyewitnesses, first-arrivers at the crash site in the Donetsk region along Ukraine-Russia borderlands.

The gruesome finding points irrefutably to Malthusian skulduggery at the highest levels of the World Health Organization (WHO) in sponsoring a covert biological warfare program against the population of Asia. A systematic investigation is now required to uncover the deadliest plot against humanity in modern history. The more predictable outcome, unfortunately, is likely to be a cover-up on an unprecedented scale to protect the globalist elite from scrutiny, legal prosecution and justice.

The blatant violation of international laws for transporting infectious agents indicates a criminal intent in their use at destination. IATA, the watchdog agency for air travel, strictly controls and registration rules in the conveyance of corpses and infectious substances due to the dangers of accidental spillage or deliberate biowarfare. The WHO also imposes tight reporting rules for physical transfer of materials between laboratories, and is therefore now caught in flagrante delicto violating its own rules.

The notable failure by the Israeli-controlled Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport customs clearance, in addition to the WHO and IATA, to warn emergency crews and investigators at the crash site of the epidemic danger proves that the gruesome cargo was transported illegally without registration. The UN and WHO are directly implicated in this covert transfer of biowarfare agents in the cargo hold, accompanying some 100 of their top virus researchers, staff members and NGO supporters in the passenger cabin.

Pity the first responder

According to rebel commander Igor Girson, who goes by the nom de guerre Strelkov, as quoted by AP, reported that local villagers who rushed to the crash scene found “a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh.” The first-responders also said the corpses had been drained of blood and reeked of decomposition.

Could the cadavers have been air-freighted for simple anatomy classes? That is a freshman question. Paying air-cargo fees to send bodies to Asia is more of a financial loss than sending coals to Newcastle. There is no shortage of fresh John Does on ice from places like the Philippines. Drained of blood and reeking from decay, the corpses can be nothing other than carriers of an infectious disease.

Decomposed cadavers and tainted blood exposed to wind, soil and ground water pose a present and clear threat to public health for millions of people across Ukraine, western Russia and the countries of the Black Sea, including Moldova, Turkey and even as far as Greece. A regional warning needs to be issued, but none is forthcoming, not when the WHO is implicated while its executives, the hidden elitist sponsors of genocide, scramble for the cover of respectability. These reprobates nestled in the medical bureaucracy are far ;worse than ordinary war criminals.

A hair’s breadth from worst case

In a worst-case scenario, and the facts thus far point to a hair’s breadth short of worst case, the MH17 crash on the Ukraine-Russian borderlands could have been the start of a real World War Z. Conversely the shoot-down could have been an act of twisted heroism in a desperate last-minute strike to prevent biological warfare on a global scale.

One question logically raised is whether the transport of infected corpses and tainted blood to host countries can be a standard feature of the UNAIDS conferences. Serving as a medical-science reporter with The University of Hong Kong press, I reported extensively on UNAIDS 2001 in that that city and visited the top research university laboratories. I can attest that bodies and blood samples were not obtained as part of the proceedings, and precautionary procedures for the sharing of tiny bits of samples were always followed to a tee.

The WHO was shipping its “zombie” passengers for a criminal purpose, very possibly genocide on a wide scale, perhaps continental. Blood-drained corpses are the stuff of horror movies, but this nightmare arose from one of the busiest airports of “civilized” Europe, and one controlled by ITCS, a security company linked from its inception to the Israeli Mossad.

Mad Scientists with renewed support from above

A reason for concern, early in this investigation, is the fact that The Netherlands, the origin of of Flight 17, is the center for the engineering of weaponized viruses under Ron Fouchier, the closest research associate of the notorious Japanese influenza expert Yoshihiro Kawaoka. The flu-research center at Eramus Medical University in Rotterdam is the sister-laboratory of Kawaoka’s Institute of Infectious Virus Research at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.

The deadly duo’s pseudo-scientific research includes the “perfection” of a Spanish flu virus that killed of 20 million victims worldwide in 1918-19. Kawaoka recently boasted that nothing can stop his newest variant of H5N1, the avian influenza virus. Fouchier’s fanatic disciples, meanwhile, have been weaponizing the H7N9 bird-flu virus that killed more than 40 people in China. (Weaponization involves three objectives, first, to hasten the ability of a virus to spread, that is, to be more contagious; second, to increase its lethality; and third, to develop an antidote available only to the chosen few.)

Kawaoka and Fouchier are not mad scientists working on the fringe, they are accredited researchers with powerful funding support. Two years agi, the twin labs received a massive boost in funding from unidentified sources funneled through department budgets despite vociferous objections from other scientists as to the unstoppable risks.

The patrons of the deadly research includes the chairman of the Eramus University trustee board, Anton Van Rossum, a former executive with Solvay, the Belgium chemical producer that illegally provided sarin-gas components to the Israeli biowarfare program aboard an El Al jetliner that crashed in Amsterdam. The El Al flight hit a crowded apartment block, soon after takeoff from Schiphol Airport, which also is the takeoff point for MH17.

Aboard that El Al flight was a shipment of an RNA-based bioweapon known as mycoplasm, which replicates in water (for example, inside the human lungs) and is suspected to have been used in the two Gulf Wars against Iraq. Bioweapons, Solvay, Israeli, Schiphol, ICTS and Boeing are the common denominators between 1992 El Al crash and the 2014 Malaysia Airlines disaster

Preventative action at tragic cost

If the world can still believe in “heroes in white armor” or at least bad guys with a grain of common sense under their black hats, a Hollywood-type disaster script emerges from this real-life action flick. Before the zombie cargo escapes Europe to launch World War Z in Asia, top generals with NATO and the Russian command decide that the payload must be stopped at any cost. The passenger casualties tragic as they are, the loss of billions of innocent lives in an unstoppable global pandemic must be prevented.< /span>

Indeed, an independent technical analysis of the video clips from the crash site, by a retired CIA crash expert, confirms just such a scenario:

- the metal fuselage of the Boeing-777 shows no traces of deep and long scratch marks from the steel balls delivered in the warhead of a Buk ground-to-air missile;
- The starboard (right-wing) jet engine was badly damaged and caught fire, pointing to a hit by a smaller air-to-air missile launched from a fighter interceptor, flying at about the same altitude; and
- the midsection was “blown outward and not inward,” indicating a bomb blast inside the cargo bay.

The expert observations, when assembled, shows that a NATO interceptor fired a heat-seeking missile at a jet engine, triggering a fire. The flames were expected to move up the fuel lines inside the wing to set fire to the plane and incinerate all contents, especially the infected corpses and blood packets.

The midair disinfection plan came undone when a bomb hidden inside the cargo bay by the Israelis, timed to explode at Kuala Lumpur International Airport (KLIA) to spread biowarfare agents after all the passengers debarked safely, instead heated up and burst midair. The bomb blast blew out the on-board fire before the cargo was torched. The plane plummeted to the ground with the biowarfare agents and corpses intact.

World’s military commanders dread biowarfare

President Vladimir Putin, out of character, did not react forcefully to the accusations of a Russian role in the shoot-down, indicating military commands of NATO and Russia are on the same page in their determination to stop the Israeli-inspired, WHO-backed bioweapons attack against the world population. The other question now, besides decontamination, is: How to track down and punish the perpetrators and planners who were not aboard MH17?

The Ukrainian side, which lacks any of the intelligence professionalism required for these sorts of code-red operations, bungled their version of events and clumsily imposed a communications blackout over the control tower at Kiev Airport. Preventing global genocide is not a task for Cub Scouts out to protect their petty national interests. Imperial powers are far more astute at the deadly game, which is why they are empires and mere nations.

The threat of World War Z is not over, not when Ukrainians and Russians are being exposed to the unleashed viruses that defy inoculation with vaccines. Trained biowarfare experts in safety suits should collect the evidence and torch the bodies in a mobile plasma incinerator. By the time the clean-up is finished, Eastern Ukraine could end up as uninhabited as the central Congo after WHO teams eliminated all potential carriers of ebola.

Evil never quits

The world’s population has practically zero awareness of the well-hidden strategists who plan and order annihilation of entire regions, as has been happening with the ebola campaign and AIDS in Central Africa, or the Factor VIII HIV-tainted blood propagation to the war-torn Balkans and Japan under the Clinton and Bush administrations. This summer another brazen biowarfare attack was within a razor’s edge of exterminating Malaysians and millions of other Asians.

War on a global scale is no longer fought in trenches, but waged in laboratories, airports, city centers, hospitals, senior homes and schools.It is not called total war, it is simply known as global policy. As a footnote, it should be noted that Professor Kawaoka is a graduate of Kobe University, and that port city is the traditional center for veterans of Unit 731, which unleashed plague and hanta virus against entire cities in World War II. The WHO is the successor to Unit 731, and so WWZ is upon us.< /span>

Yoichi Shimatsu is a science writer, who organized public health seminars during the SARS and avian influenza outbreaks in Hong Kong and Bangkok. He was the lead investigative journalist in the 1995 Tokyo subway gassing and subsequent terrorist threats against Japan’s nuclear reactors. His article on the Amsterdam crash of an El Al cargo jet loaded with bioweapons, sarin and war-grade plutonium follows this article.



Dutch Suspect Covert 1992
Nuke Weapon Transfer to Israel
by Yoichi Clark Shimatsu
(PNS) AMSTERDAM -- The Dutch Parliament is just this month holding public hearings to determine vital facts about an October, 1992 airplane accident.
The El Al Boeing 747 crashed into an apartment building in Bijlmeer, a suburb of Amsterdam, killing 39 people on the ground and four aboard the plane. It was carrying a secret cargo that included the main chemical ingredients for the nerve gas sarin as well as depleted uranium. Dutch journalists allege it was carrying weapons-grade plutonium as well.
As many as 2,000 local residents and firemen have reported health complaints that they attribute to the crash. Many report loss of hair in the weeks after the crash, a sign of radiation disease.

Possibly nuclear weapons technology being illegally shipped from U.S. to Israel

The hearings at The Hague follow six years of investigation by Dutch journalists Vincent Dekker and Pierre Heyboer with the Volkskrant newspaper. The most important witnesses will not be present, however -- officials of the Bush administration.
The flight stopped at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport for refueling en route from New York to Tel Aviv. On October 4 last year, the sixth anniversary of the crash, Dutch transport ministry leaked to a newspaper an El Al bill of landing that shows the plane was carrying 190 liters of dimethy methylphosphonate (DMMP), four liters of isopropanol and an undisclosed amount of hydroflouric acid.
The chemicals were being sent to a super-secret weapons facility, called the Israel Institute of Biological Research (IIBR) south of Tel Aviv.
The Israeli government has claimed that the chemicals were intended for testing gas masks. But most military services use only a few grams for such purposes. The chemicals aboard the El Al jet were enough to produce 270 kilograms of sarin nerve gas -- enough to annihilate the populations of many major cities.
The sarin components came from the Solkatronics chemical plant in Morrisville, Pennsylvania, then owned by Solvay, a chemical corporation based in Brussels, Belgium. International transport of such materials is a violation of the Chemical Weapons Treaty, signed by the U.S.
The El Al jet also carried at least 800 kilograms of depleted uranium (DU), used as ballast to balance the jet's cargo. Burned DU releases uranium dust, which is known to cause lung cancer and other diseases.
Dutch authorities and El Al admit Flight LY1862 carried sarin components and DU, but refuse to provide details on six tons of military cargo. According to airport security personnel, the plane carried seven pallets of unspecified munitions.
Journalist Dekker claims, on the basis of leaks from Dutch officials, that the jet carried 27 kilograms of weapons-grade plutonium, enough to make seven warheads the size of the bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki in 1945.
In addition, soil samples taken at the crash site have turned up evidence suggesting that nuclear weapons technology was being illegally shipped from the U.S. to Israel.

The El Al jet landed and took off at Schiphol, one of the world's busiest civilian airports, and flew across the most densely populated area of Europe. If 27 kilograms of plutonium had bounced into the burning wreckage, nearly all of Western Europe would have faced a nuclear emergency bigger than the Chernobyl accident.
Dutch and Israeli authorities apparently organized a cover-up. Most documents taken from El Al officials have disappeared. Police audio tapes and 42 videotapes taken by the firefighters were shredded. Firemen claimed that they turned in the cockpit voice recorder, or "black box," but the government denies that it was ever found. Metal parts from the wreckage were recycled and melted down before a proper investigation could begin.
Residents report seeing helicopters, painted black and without markings, landing in their neighborhood. Others tell of a French-speaking team searching the area, and a group of men speaking English, some clad in white chemical protective suits, carrying a heavy box covered with a white cloth.
The Dutch authorities have denied that these events ever happened.
Journalists say Dutch security officials have told them that the Netherlands has allowed Israel to make secret military air shipments through Schiphol since the 1950s. The shipments apparently are outside the Atlantic Alliance military treaties because the aircraft going to Israel are not refueled at NATO air bases but at the commercial airport of Schiphol.
"Schiphol has become a hub for secret weapons transfers because El Al has special status there. Dutch authorities have no jurisdiction over Israeli activities at the airport," said Henk van der Belt, a member of an investigation team set up by Bijlmeer residents.
Every Sunday at sundown, an El Al cargo plane stops at Schiphol, refueling midway on the long journey between New York and Tel Aviv. All Israel-bound cargo is put inside a vacuum chamber in an underground bunker to test it for bombs equipped with altimeter triggers. But the flight does not appear on any airport video monitors -- there is not even an El Al check-in counter. Documents for air freight to Israel are handled inside an unmarked room.
A photo taken just before the 1992 accident showed that the engine of the El Al jet was off-center, indicating it was previously damaged.
Airport workers in Cologne, Germany, where the jet refueled on its way to New York, say the plane collided with an airport ground vehicle there. In other words, the cargo jet loaded with U.S.-made sarin, uranium and plutonium could have crashed in New York but it turned out to be a time-bomb flying to the heart of Europe.



(http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?78307-MH17-Hauled-Gruesome-Cargo-In-Infected-Corpses-And-Tainted-Blood&p=718108#post718108)http://www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html

[Serpo]

This web site is updated daily. Hit refresh if it looks the same as yesterday. Every report on this web site is public domain and can be re-posted in full. Just mention this web site by linking back to the original here. Mirrors are permitted and


Mirror (http://matrixfiles.com/stone/)

July 19 2014

It is said dead men tell no tales, but in this case, when they are rotten three hours after takeoff that statement is a blunder.
Alin wrote:

I read your articles, but you never said what happened to the people on the real MH 17? Wouldn't it just make another load of bodies to get rid of?
Thank you,
Alin
My response:

That is a big mystery we do not have the answer to. However, we do have ONE ANSWER: The bodies on the shot down plane were rotten and obviously dead for days. That is what we have to go with for the initial clue, lack of answers elsewhere does not change that. July 19 updates are below this top posted report, which is being kept on top because it is the smoking gun. Scroll down to the headline July 19 for the latest

_______________________________________ Military Commander: Passengers dead long before plane took off

MH17 all but completely proven to be flight 370

July 18 2014 The bodies were dead for days before the flight and smelling of rot according to top military commander at the scene, which would be expected if they were actually from flight 370. They would have been loaded on the plane dead to make sure no one could speak about what went on.

From the Washington Times: (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/18/pro-russia-rebel-commander-suggests-passengers-die/#ixzz37qkaKYMb)

"MOSCOW — A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off. The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that “a significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh,” adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition." My comment: This strongly supports MH370 as being the real shoot down plane, with all passengers dead long before and probably being taken off of ice and loaded into the plane for final disposal. If a body is already dead before a crash, crash damage will not show up the same way it will with live bodies. This is probably why so many of the bodies in the wreckage do not show serious burns or blood. A good example of this effect is to take a piece of chicken and throw it in a hot pan for a few seconds. If you remove it from the hot pan within a short time, it will look totally uncooked. Yet if you put your hand on that hot pan for even half a second, it will be badly burned, and show it. Live flesh shows injury easily because of the way living cells respond to injury. If the bodies were dead for days and possibly loaded onto the plane well chilled it would explain a lot about their relatively undamaged appearance in the wreckage.

Additionally, MH17 returned immediately to normal flight schedules after this shoot down, and I beg to question HOW if a real MH17 plane was lost. The only incomplete flight is the shoot down flight. Flight 370 was canceled for weeks after the jet supporting it disappeared, why not the same scenario for MH17 if it really did get shot down? Answer: The shot down plane was the disposal of flight 370, being reported as MH17 to cover it up thus leaving MH17 in a position to return to normal immediately. Dead men tell no tales? Perhaps if they are NOT LOADED ONTO A PLANE ROTTEN.

As I suspected, MH17 is NOT supposed to over fly Eastern Ukraine

MH17 flies over Western Ukraine because the curvature of the earth makes flying over a small portion of Western Ukraine the shortest route. And I calculated that, only to be put off by a piece of disinfo which showed the flight path accomodating this "shoot down". MH17 indeed does not fly a straight line by appearances on a map, but it also does not curve extremely far east as now shown on disinfo sites to accomodate the "official" story. And someone else nailed this, and it ended up in my mail box. Yonatan said...
If it was MH17 that was shot down over Torez, it was 200 km north of its published route. It doesn't fly over the eastern land border between Ukraine and Russia. It crosses the Ukrainian coast at Berdyansk to fly over the Sea of Azov towards Primorsko-Akhtarsk.
What time was it allegedly shot down? How come it disappeared from trackers in west Ukraine and and appears to have traveled about 1000 km into eastern Ukraine some 200 km off route without being challenged by Ukrainian authorities?
Hmmm very odd, in the time taken to send my earlier message and to compose this update, FlightAware's data has been updated to show the aircraft in East Ukraine. Fortunately I have earlier screenshots of both before and after FlightAware data.
A new data entry for 2:19 puts it at 48.1N 38.5E roughly around Donestk / Torez. There is no data for the intervening hour. Why was it so far off route? What was the reason for the lack of tracking data? All the earlier MH17 flights I have checked route even further south.
Something's fishier than a barrel full of rotting fish.
MY COMMENT: YEP. AS FISHY AS MISSING FLIGHT 370. I knew it! Eastern Ukraine is NOT the correct flight path for the real MH17, which is why MH17 is now flying perfectly on schedule again! a different 777 was used for this. UPDATE: This got expunged and no longer exists. I suggest people verify for themselves, flight MH17 DOES NOT GO TO WHERE THIS SHOOT DOWN HAPPENED, NOT EVEN WITHIN 175 KILOMETERS OF WHERE IT HAPPENED. I called this on day one, only to be railroaded by B.S. put up ahead of time to no doubt stifle any search for the flight path for MH17. That alone is a smoking gun, this was set up well in advance.
My estimation of earth curvature had MH17 passing over a very small portion of Western Ukraine, never getting within 250 KM of Russia. I sure would like to see the published route, but the page it was on has BEEN REMOVED. Censorship is ruling the day, more so with this than any other event so far.

http://jimstonefreelance.com/

[Neuro]

I don't think the bio-weapon angle is very likely, but it sure is worth considering...

[mick silver]

they were doing this years ago , who's to say that this is not going on today ?To this end, Operation Northwoods proposals recommended hijackings and bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb) followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:
The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various US military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_military) and civilian targets. The operation recommended developing a "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".
The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Chiefs_of_Staff), signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Lemnitzer) and sent to the Secretary of Defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_Defense). Although part of the US government's anti-communist Cuban Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Project), Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy). According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals.

[Horn]

Was MH17 Sabotaged By An Israeli Security Team At Amsterdam Schiphol Airport?

http://www.rense.com/general96/MH17.html

[Serpo]

Here is a clip from the same guy on FL370


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjIRrORWem0

[FreeEnergy]

Russian Ministry of Defense briefing , with charts and pictures of Ukrainian BUK station (with english translation). Showing lots of evidence that Ukrainian army was the only one that owned BUKs and that they were the only ones who were capable of shutting down Malaysian Airlines flight. Either by using BUK or a military aircraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BrhEzecCdTI


Sucks to be Ukrainian army, even with all the Mass Media anti-russian hysteria helping them they got caught being played by some western alphabet agency.

[Glass]

So I'm not seeing much on this so far. It is early morning here but middle of the day for the US. I suppose this is all over the news channels being analyzed and discussed in a sensible and considered manner? The translation got a bit tedious but I'm sure someone will post one with english subtitles soon enough.

Where as, the shooting down is going to be called a terrorist act according to our news here. Russia did it of course (except they didn't). They are letting the victims bodies rot in stinking rail cars (except they are not, they are in refrigerated rail cars). Parents weeping and begging to get their children's bodies back believing they were being left to rot. The media is hacking away at this angle. No regard for the parents. The crime scene is shambolic and there's drunk people with guns smoking (except it isn't, its secure and they got a whole train to house the hundreds of bodies). Finally the train is moving!! But MSM is still bitching about something.

I guess I could go on. What I do see is more people not falling for it. There does seem to be more people each time.... getting it now. How will they spin this? Ignore it or just shout louder? He who makes the most noise has the most to hide. I find that to be a truism.

[collector]

Just thinking out loud - it's strange that officially we're trying to escalate things between us and Russia, meanwhile there's hundreds of thousands of Russian troops here in the US...what's the plan here?

[Glass]

Just thinking out loud - it's strange that officially we're trying to escalate things between us and Russia, meanwhile there's hundreds of thousands of Russian troops here in the US...what's the plan here?

It seems like every country has their army in some one elses country. thats why the President is building a domestic army bigger than the real army. I remember him saying that. Question is, who's side are the people going to be on?

[Serpo]

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? — Paul Craig Roberts July 19, 2014 (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/) | Categories: Articles & Columns (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/) | Tags: Malaysian airliner (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/), Putin (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/), Ukraine (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/), Washington (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/), | http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/wp-content/plugins/wp-print-pcr/images/print.gif (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/print/) Print This Article (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/print/)

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner?
Paul Craig Roberts
Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing
the facts that we do have.
One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it.
Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet.
The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.
Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.
One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.
This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington’s propaganda. The problem with the general’s explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.
As Washington, Kiev, and the presstitute media are committed to the propaganda that Putin did it, we are not going to get any reliable information from the US media. We will have to figure it out for ourselves.
One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile system by deploying it in a conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer, and another is that the missile system did have an intended use.
What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that the ultra-nationalist extremists intended to bring down Putin’s presidential airliner and confused the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner.
The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported that the Malaysian airliner and Putin’s airliner were traveling almost the identical route within a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical.”
I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government in response to the Interfax news report said that Putin’s presidential plane no longer flies the Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.
Before we take the denial at face value, we need to be aware that the implication that Ukraine attempted to assassinate the president of Russia implies war, which Russia wants to avoid. It also implies Washington’s complicity as it is highly unlikely that Washington’s puppet in Kiev would risk such a dangerous act without Washington’s backing. The Russian government, being intelligent and rational, would obviously deny reports of an attempted assassination of the Russian president by Washington and its Kiev puppet. Otherwise, Russia has to do something about it, and that means war.
The second explanation is that the extremists who operate outside the official Ukrainian military, hatched a plot to down an airliner in order to cast the blame on Russia. If such a plot occurred, it likely originated with the CIA or some operative arm of Washington and was intended to force the EU to cease resisting Washington’s sanctions against Russia and to break off Europe’s valuable economic relationships with Russia. Washington is frustrated that its sanctions are unilateral, unsupported by its NATO puppets or any other countries in the world except possibly the lap-dog British PM.
There is considerable circumstantial evidence in support of this second explanation. There is the youtube video which purports to be a conversation between a Russian general and separatists who are discussing having mistakenly brought down a civilian airliner. According to reports, expert examination of the code in the video reveal that it was made the day before the airliner was hit.
Another problem with the video is that whereas we could say that separatists conceivably could confuse an airliner at 33,000 feet with a military attack plane, the Russian military would not. The only conclusion is that by involving the Russian military, the video doubly discredited itself.
The circumstantial evidence easiest for non-technical people to understand is the on cue news programs organized to put the blame on Russia prior to the knowledge of any facts.
In my previous article http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/ (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/)I reported on the BBC news report which I heard and which was obviously primed to place all blame on Russia. The program ended with a BBC correspondent breathlessly reporting that he has just seen the youtube video and that the video is the smoking gun that proved Russia did it. There is no longer any doubt, he said. Somehow the information got on a video and on youtube before it reached the Ukrainian government or Washington.
The evidence that Putin did it is a video made prior to the attack on the airliner. The entire BBC report aired over National Public Radio was orchestrated for the sole purpose of establishing prior to any evidence that Russia was responsible.
Indeed the entire Western media spoke as one: Russia did it. And the presstitutes are still speaking the same way.
Possibly, this uniform opinion merely reflects the pavlovian training of the Western media to automatically line up with Washington. No media source wants to be subject to criticism for being unamerican or to find itself isolated by majority opinion, which carries the day, and earn black marks for being wrong. As a former journalist for, and contributor to, America’s most important news publications, I know how this works.
On the other hand, if we discount the pavlovian conditioning, the only conclusion is that the entire news cycle pertaining to the downing of the Malaysian airliner is orchestrated in order to lay the blame on Putin.
Romesh Ratnesar, deputy editor of Bloomberg Businessweek, provides convincing evidence for orchestration in his own remarks of July 17. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/the-malaysia-airlines-shootdown-spells-disaster-for-putin?campaign_id=DN071814 (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/the-malaysia-airlines-shootdown-spells-disaster-for-putin?campaign_id=DN071814) Ratnesar’s opinion title is: “The Malaysia Airlines Shootdown Spells Disaster for Putin.” Ratnesar does not mean that Putin is being framed-up. He means that prior to Putin having the Malaysian airliner shot down, “to the vast majority of Americans, Russia’s meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. . . . It may take months, even years, but Putin’s recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17 may be seen as the beginning of his undoing.”
As a former Wall Street Journal editor, anyone who handed me a piece of shit like Ratnesar published would have been fired. Look at the insinuations when there is no evidence to support them. Look at the lie that Washington’s coup is “Russia’s meddling in Ukraine.” What we are witnessing is the total corruption of Western journalism by Washington’s imperial agenda. Journalists have to get on board with the lies or get run over.
Look around for still honest journalists. Who are they? Glenn Greenwald, who is under constant attack by his fellow journalists, all of whom are whores. Who else can you think of? Julian Assange, locked away in the Ecuadoran Embassy in London on Washington’s orders. The British puppet government won’t permit free transit to Assange to take up his asylum in Ecuador. The last country that did this was the Soviet Union, which required its Hungarian puppet to keep Cardinal Mindszenty interred in the US Embassy in Budapest for 15 years from 1956 until 1971. Mindszenty was granted political asylum by the United States, but Hungary, on Soviet orders, would not honor his asylum, just as Washington’s British puppet, on Washington’s orders, will not honor Assange’s asylum.
If we are honest and have the strength to face reality, we will realize that the Soviet Union did not collapse. It simply moved, along with Mao and Pol Pot, to Washington and London.
The flaw in Putin’s diplomacy is that Putin’s diplomacy relies on good will and on truth prevailing. However, the West has no good will, and Washington is not interested in truth prevailing but in Washington prevailing. What Putin confronts is not reasonable “partners,” but a propaganda ministry aimed at him.
I understand Putin’s strategy, which contrasts Russian reasonableness with Washington’s threats, but it is a risky bet. Europe has long been a part of Washington, and there are no Europeans in power who have the vision needed to separate Europe from Washington. Moreover, European leaders are paid large sums of money to serve Washington. One year out of office and Tony Blair was worth $50 million dollars.
After the disasters that Europeans have experienced, it is unlikely that European leaders think of anything other than a comfortable existence for themselves. That existence is best obtained by serving Washington. As the successful extortion of Greece by banks proves, European people are powerless.
Here is the official statement of the Russian Defense Ministry: http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh-17-crash-in-ukraine-official-statement-from-russian-defense-ministry/5392000 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/mh-17-crash-in-ukraine-official-statement-from-russian-defense-ministry/5392000)
Washington’s propaganda assault against Russia is a double tragedy, because it has diverted attention from Israel’s latest atrocity against the Palestinians locked up in the Gaza Ghetto. Israel claims that its air attack and invasion of Gaza is merely Israel’s attempt to find and close the alleged tunnels through which Palestinian terrorists pour into Israel inflicting carnage. Of course there are no tunnels and no terrorist carnage in Israel.
One might think that at least one journalist somewhere in the American media would ask why bombing hospitals and civilian housing closes underground tunnels into Israel. But that is too much to ask of the whores that comprise the US media.
Expect even less from the US Congress. Both the House and Senate have passed resolutions supporting Israel’s slaughter of Palestinians. Two Republicans–the despicable Lindsey Graham and the disappointing Rand Paul–and two democrats–Bob Menendez and Ben Cardin–sponsored the Senate resolution backing Israel’s premeditated murder of Palestinian women and children. The resolution passed the “exceptional and indispensable” people’s Senate unanimously.
As a reward for its policy of genocide, the Obama regime is immediately transferring $429 million of US taxpayers’ money to Israel to pay for the slaughter.
Contrast the US government’s support for Israel’s war crimes with the propaganda onslaught against Russia based on lies. We are living all over again “Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction,” “Assad’s use of chemical weapons,” “Iranian nukes.”
Washington has lied for so long that it can’t do anything else.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlGLqiDogA#t=230
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c__Fm5liCo#t=12


Kiev’s evidence of militia’s responsibility for airliner crash faked - expert Russia (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia)
July 20, 14:37 UTC+4
A group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings

http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140720/1052351.jpg
© ITAR-TASS

MOSCOW, uly 20 /ITAR-TASS/. A tape posted by Ukrainian security services in the Internet and allegedly recording a talk between self-defense fighters about the destruction of a Malaysian airliner is a fake, experts said on Sunday.
A group of experts studied the tape and came to the conclusion that it was made up of numerous unrelated recordings.
“This audio recording is not an integral file and is made up of several fragments,” said Nikolai Popov, a reputable expert in sound and voice analysis.

http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/fit/333x9999_4ec25037/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140720/1052345.jpg (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741515) 196 people found dead at Malaysian airliner crash site in Ukraine (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741515)


Specifically, the first of the three audio fragments, in which Gorlovka self-defense militia commander Igor Bezler talks about a plane shot down by the fighters, does not say anything about the type of the plane, the expert said.
At the same time, the name of the town of Yenakiyevo is clearly heard in the tape. However, the town is located about 100 km (60 miles) from the settlement of Snezhnoye where the Malaysian Boeing-777 airliner crashed.
Bezler said the talk had really taken place but the he had talked about a Ukrainian attack aircraft shot down by the militia above Yenakiyevo a day before the Malaysian airliner crash.

http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/fit/333x9999_4ec25037/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140720/1052341.jpg (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741511) Kiev authorities agree with militia to evacuate Boeing crash casualties (http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741511)


The tape’s second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said.
The tape’s linguistic analysis also shows that those who made the faked tape clearly didn’t have enough material and time, the expert said.
That is why, speech fragments can hardly correlate with each other in terms of their sense and the spectral picture of audio materials also differs, the expert said.
But the most indicative moment is that the audio tape clearly shows that it was created almost a day before the airliner crash, the expert said.
The Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 passenger airliner on the flight from the Dutch city of Amsterdam to the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur crashed in the area of hostilities between local militias and Ukrainian governmental troops in east Ukraine’s Donetsk region on Thursday, July 17. All 298 people aboard the airliner died in the air crash.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741521

[Serpo]

Ron Paul: What The Press Isn't Reporting About The MH17 Disaster

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)
Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on 07/21/2014 15:57 -0400



Middle East (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/11126)
Obama Administration (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/11285)
President Obama (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/11020)
Ron Paul (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/8807)
Ukraine (http://www.zerohedge.com/taxonomy_vtn/term/11710)






inShare6


Authored by Ron Paul via The Ron Paul Institute (http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/july/20/what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.aspx),
Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.


They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.

They will not report that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.

They will not report that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it's very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/ron-paul-what-press-isnt-reporting-about-mh17-disaster

ALSO.............



THE ROVING EYE
It was Putin's missile!
By Pepe Escobar

And here's the spin war verdict: the current Malaysia Airlines tragedy - the second in four months - is "terrorism" perpetrated by "pro-Russian separatists", armed by Russia, and Vladimir Putin is the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.

Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary "We came, we saw, he died" Clinton said so. Because batshit crazy Samantha "R2P" Power said so - thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the neo-con infested Washington Post. [1]

Because Anglo-American corporate media - from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN) - said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.

Right off the bat they were all lined up - the invariably hysterical reams of "experts" of the "US intelligence community" literally foaming at their palatial mouths at "evil" Russia and "evil" Putin; intel "experts" who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced they don't need to look any further, instantly solving the MH17 riddle.

It doesn't matter that President Putin has stressed the MH17 tragedy must be investigated objectively. And "objectively" certainly does not mean that fictional "international community" notion construed by Washington - the usual congregation of pliable vassals/patsies.

And what about Carlos?
A simple search (http://pt.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140717/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK) at reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200 kilometers north from the usual flight path taken by Malaysia Airlines in the previous days - and plunged right in the middle of a war zone. Why? What sort of communication MH17 received from Kiev air control tower?

Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared forever.

It won't happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation on why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.

The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational near the MH17's crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing down jets flying at 33,000 ft.

Radiation from a battery's Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla (a village some 30km south of Donetsk) was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance from MH17's flight path. The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles. MH17 was flying at 500 mph. So assuming the "rebels" had an operational Buk and did it, they would have had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high. For evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag, check here (http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/).

And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account - not accidentally - has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online - and now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:



"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48 pm)"
"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"
"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)"
"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"
"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)"

Carlos's assessment (a partial compilation of his tweets is collected here http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/ ): the missile was fired by the Ukraine military under orders of the Ministry of Interior - NOT the Ministry of Defense. Security matters at the Ministry of the Interior happen to be under Andriy Parubiy, who was closely working alongside US neo-cons and Banderastan neo-nazis on Maidan.

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king President Petro Poroshenko - who would like a d?tente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and Saint Yulia Timoshenko, who's on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US "military advisers" on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Timoshenko factions.

So who profits?
The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in Eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.

As for Kiev, they'd have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off - especially after Kiev's militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass; and this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of Eastern Ukraine even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.

And then there's the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel "cautiously" advances its new invasion/slow motion ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.

Washington, of course, does profit. What the Empire of Chaos gets in this case is a ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of Eastern Ukrainians as de facto "terrorists" (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes' work. As for NATO, that's Christmas in July.

From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveying/tracking everything that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, where from, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have access to forensic evidence.

Unlike Washington - who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?) - Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington's spin.

The historical record shows Washington simply won't release data if it points to a missile coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure - although that's unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.

Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a cease-fire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they - theoretically - control.

But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype. As for Washington's hysterical claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655.

Notes:
1. Missile Downs Malaysia Airlines Plane Over Ukraine Killing 298, Kiew Blames Rebels (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/missile-downs-malaysia-airlines-plane-over-ukraine-killing-298-kiev-blames-rebels/2014/07/18/d30205c8-0e4a-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html%5C), Washington Post, July 18, 2014.

Pepe Escobar is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving into Liquid War (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0978813820/simpleproduction/ref=nosim) (Nimble Books, 2007), Red Zone Blues: a snapshot of Baghdad during the surge (http://www.amazon.com/Red-Zone-Blues-snapshot-Baghdad/dp/0978813898) (Nimble Books, 2007), and Obama does Globalistan (http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Does-Globalistan-Pepe-Escobar/dp/1934840831) (Nimble Books, 2009).




http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html

[Serpo]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/wrong-aircraft-identified-as-malaysia-flt-mh-17-fuels-doubts/



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1 (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/wrong-aircraft-identified-as-malaysia-flt-mh-17-fuels-doubts/)

[Horn]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/wrong-aircraft-identified-as-malaysia-flt-mh-17-fuels-doubts/



(http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/wrong-aircraft-identified-as-malaysia-flt-mh-17-fuels-doubts/)http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1


http://chemtrailsplanet.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/mh-17-crash-scene-tail-number-both-photos.jpg?w=538

Is that the stump of a tree propping that piece up? yeah strange.

From these accounts its as if both sides are also in on a coverup...

[Serpo]

(http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://api.ning.com:80/files/ea4x8ggFHeKGmBQAdHlKx9mpbSiLD7qTmhXtgkPc65-wxMVgdy*2yjac-EtKXANl2IvvN*byW2PIIFiLT8s0eDTEhTm2Hs8l/mh17starboardcrashsceneconclusion.jpg)
http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6588&d=1406056178




(http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://api.ning.com:80/files/ea4x8ggFHeKGmBQAdHlKx9mpbSiLD7qTmhXtgkPc65-wxMVgdy*2yjac-EtKXANl2IvvN*byW2PIIFiLT8s0eDTEhTm2Hs8l/mh17starboardcrashsceneconclusion.jpg)Look carefully at the position of the flag on the piece of wreckage in the Ukraine (top of article). Do you see how the trailing edge of the flag (the side with the red and white stripes) is directly over a window hole that is covered with a metal plate. There is no window there. Now carefully look at the second photos of both MH-17 and MH-370 shown below. In the photos of MH-17 you see clearly see that the trailing edge of the flag is lined up with a window! But in the photos of MH-370 you see that the trailing edge of the flag is directly over a the metal plate covering up the window! Photographs don’t lie! So this plane is MH-370!








(http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://api.ning.com:80/files/ea4x8ggFHeKGmBQAdHlKx9mpbSiLD7qTmhXtgkPc65-wxMVgdy*2yjac-EtKXANl2IvvN*byW2PIIFiLT8s0eDTEhTm2Hs8l/mh17starboardcrashsceneconclusion.jpg)http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/breaking-photos-prove-crashed-malaysian-jet-was-mh-370-2997698.html

[Glass]

so what they are saying is that it was not MH-17 that was shot down but another plane or that no plane was shot down? I think I'm missing something.

[Serpo]

so what they are saying is that it was not MH-17 that was shot down but another plane or that no plane was shot down? I think I'm missing something.

guy reckons the plane is 370 and not 17 from the window not there,see above, which was the same as 370

17 had this window, crashed plane hasnt though


one tiny window near escape door

[Neuro]

guy reckons the plane is 370 and not 17 from the window not there,see above, which was the same as 370

17 had this window, crashed plane hasnt though


one tiny window near escape door
Drop it in a civil war zone and get the warring factions to dispute it vehemently, and you have a perfect storm brewing. Solved two problems in one go. No real reliable investigations happen in a civil war anyway. And it takes the attention away from Gaza genocide.

[midnight rambler]

Don't fall for the disinfo and don't contribute to the nonsense.

9M-MRD on 12/28/13 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/2372626/L/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

9M-MRD on 6/1/13 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/2343457/L/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

9M-MRD on 10/28/12 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/2250469/L/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

[EE_]

don't fall for the disinfo and don't contribute to the nonsense.

9m-mrd on 12/28/13 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/malaysia-airlines/boeing-777-2h6-er/2372626/l/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

9m-mrd on 6/1/13 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/malaysia-airlines/boeing-777-2h6-er/2343457/l/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

9m-mrd on 10/28/12 -

http://www.airliners.net/photo/malaysia-airlines/boeing-777-2h6-er/2250469/l/&sid=a3fada5ca60d1624cd6abcc7642dad3d

wb mr

[Glass]

its not clear if the fuselage is left or right and I think MR is pointing out that the left side of the craft may be different to the right. The internal floor layout could dictate blocking off a window on one side and not the other. Something that could cause that might be the location of the galley for that section of the plane. The galley would require a closed off window.

[Bigjon]

DON'T BLINDLY ACCEPT THE NEWS
MALAYSIA FLIGHT 14 COULD BE A FALSE FLAG

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/
The pattern is always the same. Determine the aggressive act desired to accomplish the predetermined outcome. Create an incident to make the other side look like the aggressor. Then take the pre-determined aggressive action, justifying it claiming innocence and victimhood. Use yellow journalism to constantly enflame the attitudes of the American people into believing acts of atrocity are justified and good.

Sound familiar to Gulf War I? Gulf War II? The current aggressions in the Middle East? Yes, indeed. The same strategy proved so effective, it has been deployed time, after time, and time since the creation of the French Revolution.

Kirk

Begin forwarded message:

From: Clarice R
Date: July 21, 2014
Subject: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17 (WHO IS AT FAULT ?)


When we are warned continually about terrorists appearing in our OWN midst here in our country, should we ALSO automatically blame our government officials for their atrocities? Unfortunately we know there are bad guys out there. . and they ARE NOT THE NORMAL, PEACEFUL CITIZENS, FAMILIES in countries throughout the world who suffer and lose loved ones. These are the tools being used by the relatively few unscrupulous, ambitious leaders and corrupt hate-mongers throughout the world.

[midnight rambler]

its not clear if the fuselage is left or right and I think MR is pointing out that the left side of the craft may be different to the right.

Both sides were the same, stop getting sucked in.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/1850131/L/&sid=132afc0890f5134b5311f59d9f858851

[Glass]

Both sides were the same, stop getting sucked in.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Malaysia-Airlines/Boeing-777-2H6-ER/1850131/L/&sid=132afc0890f5134b5311f59d9f858851

I'm not getting sucked in. I'm struggling to see what the thing is with the windows. When I read the explanation it doesn't make sense to me. It seems like the person is saying the opposite to what the photos say.

I'm not really falling for the substituted plane story. I think its very unlikely just like the plague infected bodies crapola. I'd like to see the left and right of one plane, both sides of the same plane. Different plane can have different layout's.

I'm trying to go back and look at those other 3 images that were linked. Were they all of the same plane? yes: 9m-mrd on.....

They have now been removed from that web site. Seems someone is doing some house keeping.

I can't get any results for Malaysia Airlines

[Cebu_4_2]

Back up folks, we have seen this hundreds of times. D I S T R A C T I O N


DON'T BLINDLY ACCEPT THE NEWS
MALAYSIA FLIGHT 14 COULD BE A FALSE FLAG

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/
The pattern is always the same. Determine the aggressive act desired to accomplish the predetermined outcome. Create an incident to make the other side look like the aggressor. Then take the pre-determined aggressive action, justifying it claiming innocence and victimhood. Use yellow journalism to constantly enflame the attitudes of the American people into believing acts of atrocity are justified and good.

Sound familiar to Gulf War I? Gulf War II? The current aggressions in the Middle East? Yes, indeed. The same strategy proved so effective, it has been deployed time, after time, and time since the creation of the French Revolution.

Kirk

Begin forwarded message:

From: Clarice R
Date: July 21, 2014
Subject: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17 (WHO IS AT FAULT ?)


When we are warned continually about terrorists appearing in our OWN midst here in our country, should we ALSO automatically blame our government officials for their atrocities? Unfortunately we know there are bad guys out there. . and they ARE NOT THE NORMAL, PEACEFUL CITIZENS, FAMILIES in countries throughout the world who suffer and lose loved ones. These are the tools being used by the relatively few unscrupulous, ambitious leaders and corrupt hate-mongers throughout the world.

[midnight rambler]

I'm trying to go back and look at those other 3 images that were linked. Were they all of the same plane? yes: 9m-mrd on.....

They have now been removed from that web site. Seems someone is doing some house keeping.

I can't get any results for Malaysia Airlines

No matter the search term airliners.net is not yielding any search results for anything, check back later.

[Glass]

Ukraine pushes for Separatists to be labelled as Terrorists under international law.


Poroshenko Demands Ukraine Separatists Be Declared "Terrorists" Under International Law

Ukraine will demand at an EU Foreign Affairs Council meeting on Tuesday that the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) be recognized as terrorist organizations, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said.

"We and the Netherlands will make every effort, in particular during the meeting tomorrow of the EU Foreign Affairs Council where Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin will speak, so that the so-called Luhansk and Donetsk People's Republics be declared terrorist organizations and [U]so that any cooperation or support the terrorists receive is recognized as such under international law," Poroshenko said on Monday while visiting the Dutch embassy in Kyiv.
Ukraine is preparing international lawsuits against the self-proclaimed DPR and LPR, to label them as terrorist organizations, Poroshenko said earlier on July 19 during a meeting with Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans.



from yet another ZH article (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-22/poroshenko-demands-ukraine-separatists-be-declared-terrorists-under-international-la).

[Serpo]

VT are investigating all possibilities until they are discredited.







http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/20/wrong-aircraft-identified-as-malaysia-flt-mh-17-fuels-doubts/ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2702002/US-Russia-created-conditions-shoot-down.html)

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e19rcdJmeJk&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[Horn]

Guess Russian had no photos that would've helped on the 370 flight?

[Dogman]

Guess Russian had no photos that would've helped on the 370 flight?

Something like this?

6596

[Glass]

The rumours I am hearing this morning is that 2 x F18's were shot down over Russia over night. Not sure if it was 18's but it was F somethings.

1) Nothing on the wires
2) Ukraine don't have any F fighters. I think they only have Migs
3) That would make them NATO.

At this point I think its bull.

[Dogman]

MsM saying two fighters down, but no make nor model.

[Glass]

Ukraine: Two military jets shot down over Donetsk
Donetsk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Were the missiles that shot down two Ukrainian military planes on Wednesday fired from the Russian side of the border?
That's a possibility that U.S. intelligence analysts are investigating, U.S. officials told CNN on Wednesday. Pro-Russian rebels quickly claimed credit for downing the military planes. And Ukrainian officials claimed the missiles that hit them might have been fired from inside Russia.

One thing is clear: Tensions in volatile eastern Ukraine seem to be ratcheting up, less than a week after a missile brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 there.
Some of the 12,000-15,000 Russian troops near the eastern Ukraine border have broken up into smaller groups and moved within five miles or less of the border, and some are even positioned right at the border, according to two U.S. officials.
..................
..................

Sergei Kavtaradze, an aide to rebel leader Alexander Borodai, the Prime Minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic, told CNN that the two jets had been shot down by rebel fighters using a shoulder-fired missile system.

But Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council, said preliminary information suggested the missiles might have been launched from inside Russia.

The planes were flying at an altitude of 5,200 meters (17,000 feet) when they were hit, he said.



CNN Story (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/23/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_c3)

[Horn]

Donetsk separatists looking for downed Su-25 pilot; second aircraft gone north


Donetsk-based separatists claim they shot down two more Ukrainian attack aircraft near the town of Snizhne.

"The pilot of one of the attack aircraft ejected near Snizhne. The search for him is underway. Yet another (Sukhoi) Su-25 aircraft has reportedly been damaged and gone towards the north," the Donetsk militia headquarters of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) told Interfax on July 23.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/donetsk-separatists-looking-for-downed-su-25-pilot-second-aircraft-gone-north-357554.html

[Glass]

So the claim is that the two fighter jets that were downed actually took of from an air base in Azerbaijan. They are saying that Ukraine fighter jets are not operating out of Ukraine but out of 3 other countries including Poland. They are being serviced and armed by the US and their allies. It is also claimed that Russia is now painting these aircraft so that Separatists can target them. Remembering they were downed with Shoulder launch not TelRad BUK missile batteries.


Biggest news was there is a 70% chance a bomb took down the aircraft due to debris spread over 30 miles and the fake photos and mainstream fake news reports pushing the missile theory. Gordon says IF it was a bomb it was placed on the plane at Shiphol airport in Amsterdam by members of ICTS Security the same company that helped place the bomb for the Christmas day shoe bomber flight to Detroit.

Also Gordon Duff reports they now know that fake plane debris have been planted on the scene and this salted evidence shows massive 5″ holes (hundreds in some cases) to push the missile theory. This wreckage was not there 3 days ago when satellites logged it! This level of damage does not fit the missile theory since missiles have small warheads for manueverability. Also perhaps even BIGGER news is that Gordon announced that the Ukrainian Air Force has abandoned using air bases in Ukraine and are now using US and Israeli bases outside of Ukraine! The planes are flying in and out and being serviced and armed in Romania near Bucharest (US Base), Moldova Poland (Serviced and Armed by US Personnel with Polish Pilots) and Azerbaijan (Israeli base)
Link to Before its story (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/breaking-photos-prove-crashed-malaysian-jet-was-mh-370-2997698.html) which references Duff & VT

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evL5tyBAtg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q1JQFA4PQ0&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCM5gF2Z3Pk&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ


also....http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/7/24_Is_This_The_Real_Reason_Why_Malaysian_MH17_Was_ Shot_Down.html

[Glass]

So Dahboo77 makes the point that the only video of the plane is one exploding on the ground. There are no shoot down images. I have a LiveLeak video of an aircraft coming down with the right engine on fire. I can't confirm the claim it is MH-17. It could be the transport from few days earlier. It's a twin engines craft and it looks to be mostly intact although I think there is damage toward the front of the plane. You don't see any impact, explosion or smoke in that video. It does look like the plane was hit by a missile but not clear where it came from.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffc_1405644832

Not sure this plane is big enough to be a 777 but it's hard to tell.

[Shami-Amourae]

According to Texe Marrs, this is going on since the Kazarian Jews want to take over ancient Khazaria. They fear people will figure out they aren't Semitic and will have to fall back on Plan B to be Khazarians.
http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/g91koryb1x/Rense.20140721.1of3.mp3

[Serpo]

So Dahboo77 makes the point that the only video of the plane is one exploding on the ground. There are no shoot down images. I have a LiveLeak video of an aircraft coming down with the right engine on fire. I can't confirm the claim it is MH-17. It could be the transport from few days earlier. It's a twin engines craft and it looks to be mostly intact although I think there is damage toward the front of the plane. You don't see any impact, explosion or smoke in that video. It does look like the plane was hit by a missile but not clear where it came from.

that plane was a bright blue sky, the explosion was cloudy sky

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znbU9NQHAm0&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ&amp; index=14

[Serpo]

According to Texe Marrs, this is going on since the Kazarian Jews want to take over ancient Khazaria. They fear people will figure out they aren't Semitic and will have to fall back on Plan B to be Khazarians.
http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/g91koryb1x/Rense.20140721.1of3.mp3

theres always plan c for them ........the guillotine ...........












MH 17 Satellite Photo shows 30 Miles of Debris Field of Bodies
http://www.stewwebb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-site-300x405.jpg (http://www.stewwebb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-site.jpg)
By Stew Webb
Was it a Bomb that left 30 miles of Debris of the Malaysia Airliner? If it were a BUK Missile the plane would have exploded and hit the ground. Why did Bodies and luggage fall for 30 miles?
Ex Special Forces Officer
I commanded a HALO Detachment years ago. I made a 32K jump as part of a special project. I also jumped the SADM twice.
One must cover all skin from that altitude because of the cold. I had a NCO that did not do that, and had severe frostbite on the exposed flesh. That is over 3 minutes of free fall, most slowing down in the thickening air after terminal velocity.
My opinion is that the damage to the 777 was caused by a internal bomb. I could also have been a heavy duty ground to air missile. If the rear fuselage came off bodies would come out that were not restrained. They would tumble or spin and freeze. Freeze is blue. They would be strewn along the flight path of the aircraft. If living people came out, they would freeze and die, or if covered in some way, they would die from impact.
It would be interesting to see the imagery of the missile fired. It was shown on US TV from the side, but we know the reliability of Network news.
I have been looking for the picture of fused turbine blades in the exploded engine. That would be a anomaly.
If someone comes out of a plane at 33k feet, what effect will that have?
Would that lead to what people describe as bloated or blue?
Note the sat photo shows places where responders cross wheat fields to pick up bodies. Some may have been miles away…
Did Israel have Motive to blame Russia to get the world heat of their mass murders of the true Jews-Semites also known as Palestinians in the GAZA?
Who are the real Jews those who occupy Israel or GAZA?
New Genome Study Destroys Zionist Claims to Palestine
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/03/01/new-genome-study-destroys-zionist-claims-to-palestine
Israel hit with EU War Crimes Sanctions
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/07/20/israel-hit-with-eu-war-crimes-sanctions
Secret NSA Satellite Facility Located in Jerusalem
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/12/secret-nsa-satellite-facility-located-in-jerusalem
Are American Jews incubating another Hitler?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/11/07/are-the-american-jews-incubating-another-hitler
Ukrainian Su-25 fighter approached MH17
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/21/ukrainian-su-25-fighter-approached-mh17
Stew Webb Veterans Today
Stew Webb Website
http://www.stewwebb.com/2014/07/24/mh-17-satellite-photo-shows-30-miles-debris-field-bodies/

[Horn]

I have been looking for the picture of fused turbine blades in the exploded engine. That would be a anomaly.
If someone comes out of a plane at 33k feet, what effect will that have?
Would that lead to what people describe as bloated or blue?

Yeah a large surface to air missile you would think to leave nothing but two large trails of smoke, not enough residual fuel for a secondary ground explosion. Appear it would be a smaller type initial hit.

If it were an indirect hit, would a couple minutes of exposure be long enough for bloating and blueing to set in?

[Serpo]

Weather and Visibility Factor

Kiev-based air traffic controllers not only led MH17 right over its alleged ‘target zone’ in Eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk region, but also helped make it visible.

Although weather data online is all but unavailable for the area of Donetsk, Ukraine for July 17th, conditions are evident by numerous videos depicting the crash and crash site in the aftermath – it was cloudy and overcast, with more visibility above the cloud canopy. This factor is important because at its cruising altitude of approximately 33,000 feet (10,000 meters), the airliner would not be visible from the ground in the rebel-held area where Washington is insisting a SAM missile was launched. Why Kiev air traffic controllers order MH17 to suddenly drop its altitude, from 35,000 feet to around 33,000 feet, just before the plane’s demise is unknown for sure, but it would have been near impossible for the alleged rebel gunman occupying this relatively small rebel-held patch of land to make a visual sighting of MH17 and acquire the target during the 1-2 minute window they would have had (assuming they were even in possession of the BUK missile system).

The Los Angeles Times reports (http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-aviation-20140717-story.html):
“Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspace when it was struck by a missile in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.
“Despite ongoing violence in eastern Ukraine, including the recent downing of two military aircraft, Ukrainian aviation officials had closed the region’s airspace only below 32,000 feet in altitude.
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspace (33,000 ft)when it was struck by a missile in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.”

To date, Kiev has refused to acknowledge or explain why the plane was moved into position in this way. Moreover, Interfax news agency reported that Ukraine’s SBU security service confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew immediately after the incident.

The probability that this is all an ‘unfortunate coincidence’ reduces to near zero when one considers the air traffic data and Kiev’s denial of the close proximity of its Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet in pursuit of MH17 minutes before the crash (see ‘Aircraft in the Vicinity’ below).

Small Rebel Target Window

Much has been made by the US and its media of MH17 being shot down and crashing in “the rebel-held area”, but few are aware of just how small the said area actually is. The Ukrainian military had already isolated the rebel area which Kiev and Washington insist a rebel-controlled BUK SAM missile battery had fired on the passenger jet. The actual size of this rebel-held patch is only 50 miles wide, with MH17 approaching on a southeastern route over Horlivka, the frontline of this rebel-held zone, towards Snezhnoye (Snizhne). Cruising at 580 mph (933 kmph), MH17 would have only been visible for a very short time – just over 1 minute (if Kiev had not ordered MH17 to alter its course and altitude then it would not have been visible at all), from the vantage point of the alleged rebel firing position. According the Jane’s Defense (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K37-Buk.html), the alleged culprit – an SA-11 (NATO code name) or ‘BUK’ missile system, requires 5 minutes set-up active targeting, followed by an additional 22 seconds ‘reaction time’ for target acquisition and firing. As the MH17 was only visible for 70 seconds above this rebel-held area surrounding Grabovo, unless the alleged rebel firing position was specifically tracking MH17 long before it entered the rebel-held airspace and could distinguish it from other military civilian aircraft also in the general vicinity, Washington’s theory and Kiev’s accusation – that rebels shot down this aircraft becomes even weaker.

Considering these factors, the probability increases greatly that targeting MH17 would have had to be premeditated far in advance of the 70 seconds it was visible above this particular rebel-held area.

Russian Satellite Data and Public Presentation

On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance, released all of its air traffic data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it) – all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The entire content of the presentation was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from this are stunning, to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British media outlets did report back to its people on these findings. They are as follows:

Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious ‘Left Turn’ as it flew over the Donetsk areaat approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp 14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before dropping altitude disappearing from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already diverted MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was Kiev ATC also responsible for this final, fatal diversion, or is there another reason for this unusual turn (see ‘Mysterious Left Turn’, below)?

According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned 3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included full launching, loading and radio location units, located in the immediate vicinity of the MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition, a radio location system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th, the day of the incident, these batteries were moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other radio location units are also identified in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.

From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev’s BUK launchers were then moved away from the firing zone.

Unlike rebel fighters, the Ukrainian military is in possession of some 27 BUK missile systems capable of bringing down high-flying jets, and forensic satellite imagery places at least 3 of their launchers in the Donetsk region on the day of this tragedy. Yet, Washington and NATO will not inquire about the possibility that any of these system had targeted MH17.


lot more here........


http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/



(http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/)“According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by the Russian border.”
“When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and ordered the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing’s emergency landing. A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed.”


(http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/)

[Serpo]

Rough Translation Of Alleged Phone
Call Between Obama, Porky
Note - The Following Has Not Been
Substantiated But Is Worth Considering
7-25-14






http://www.rense.com/general96/A1.jpg







http://www.rense.com/general96/A2x.jpg










http://www.rense.com/general96/A3.jpg




http://www.rense.com/general96/transobnpork.html

[Horn]

Not sure about all that.

What is for certain is if their propaganda machine had any kind of clarity, the Porky guy would've remained tight lipped the entire time thru, not throwing accusatory remarks of terrorism.

In the end I think it is Ukraine that is being split manipulated by the two larger wolves who are agreeing to feed together nicely for now.

[PatColo]

Rense & guest Dean Henderson had a spirited discussion about this flight & more the other night.
Listen (http://www.talkshoe.com/resources/talkshoe/images/swf/lastEpisodePlayer.swf?fileUrl=http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/duk9bqc3gc/Rense.20140725.3of3.mp3) Download (http://k007.kiwi6.com/hotlink/duk9bqc3gc/Rense.20140725.3of3.mp3) Hour 3 - Dean Henderson (http://hendersonlefthook.wordpress.com/)
Dean noted at one point how the JWO hates Malaysia, coz they're anti JWO, don't even recognize the zio entity occupying Palestine, bla bla. They didn't mention but I will, malaysia also hosted an int'l 911 Tribunal several years ago which concluded inside job (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c9_1353088784). More recently in another tribunal they found bush & blair guilty of iraq war crimes (http://rt.com/news/court-bush-blair-iraq-043/). And in 2013,Why the Kuala Lumpur Tribunal’s genocide verdict against Israel sets a key precedent (http://rt.com/op-edge/tribunal-israel-genocide-key-precedent-711/). Mal's former PM Mahathir said in a speech a decade back, Malaysian Leader: 'Jews Rule World by Proxy' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/10/16/malaysian-leader-jews-rule-world-by-proxy). Good hour.


a couple found at iamthewitness:


MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed False Flag (http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/)


Has the Globalist Tactic of Discrediting and Destroying The Opposition Lost Its Effect? (http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2014/07/24/has-the-globalist-tactic-of-discrediting-and-destroying-the-opposition-lost-its-effect/)

July 24, 2014 (http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2014/07/24/has-the-globalist-tactic-of-discrediting-and-destroying-the-opposition-lost-its-effect/) The Watchdog (http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/author/admin/) 2 Comments (http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2014/07/24/has-the-globalist-tactic-of-discrediting-and-destroying-the-opposition-lost-its-effect/#comments)




I have to say this which is the question that is not asked after the shoot down of the Malaysian jet over eastern Ukraine. Which side is standing to gain from this tragedy? It’s a very obvious question to ask after all the media pundits in the west slinging mud at a perceived villain.


Unlike when World War I and II was started and all other conflicts in the 20th and the 21st centuries. The curtain has been pulled back showing the real hidden hand behind the wars. The globalist have lost control over the flow of information that concealed their agenda for decades. Now their operation has been revealed. This is why Hillary Clinton and Zbigniew Brzezinski have admitted they have lost the information war. (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/sleeping-with-the-devil-how-u-s-and-saudi-backing-of-al-qaeda-led-to-911.html)


The Globalist colluding with their willing accomplices in the establishment media have lost the hearts and minds of the people. They are in a meltdown as they try to demonize and destroy the opposition to the New World order agenda. The establishment media have become discredited after being caught many times misleading the public.

(http://spectator.org/blog/21665/discredited-ipcc-also-reveals-medias-malpractice)
The establishment may have gotten away with demonizing Randy Weaver and David Koresh when thy had a choke-hold on the information coming out. They would accuse their enemies they very thing the establishment really is. They did this with impunity without being caught for many years. Now the chickens have come home to roost since the internet and citizen journalist risen up asking the questions and exposing this media fraud to the people.

(http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jun/11/rise-of-citizen-journalism)
The media would have phony debates with the controlled or loyal opposition. (http://fakeologist.com/category/controlled-opposition/)The organic opposition that were the real threats to the power structure were demonized. Their reputations are destroyed being discredited. Protesters redressing their grievances to the government over bad policy or laws. Agent provocateurs working for the government are sent in to throw rocks at the police. They would pull out as the riot police would step in and beat up grandma and the single mother with a baby stroller. This is how the system demonized real protest to stay in power with the media having the script in hand ready to lie on camera.


Now it is the year 2014. Now the western powers have a new villain to demonize. That is Vladamir Putin the President of Russia. He is a real enemy to the banking establishment of the west. The same Bankers own most of all media in newsprint, radio and television. They control the information they broadcast to the listeners and viewers. Now you can see why the media with the government is demonizing President Putin calling him a tyrant,a Nazi and a Dictator because they are accusing him of being the very thing the west is now trying to discredit him because he is a threat to the power structure of the globalist. Russia forming the B.R.I.C.S alliance is a rival to the western monopoly which can bring the system down.


In the past when the media seemed more friendly to the people and trusted. When someone like Senator Joseph McCarthy exposed the Federal Reserve Bank in his pursuits going after the communist in the government. The whole Central bank scam of the Federal Reserve System being exposed for their role keeping the cold war alive working with the Soviet Union by the Wisconsin Senator. The media politically destroyed him.


The Government destroyed Ezra Pound locking him up in a mental institution, The Killed Congressmen and Senators who challenged the banker’s stranglehold on the US economy and the their corruption. Does anyone remember Congressman McFadden who spoke out against the Central bank during the Great Depression?


This is 2014, the world has changed and access to information has been open more than ever. The veil has been lifted showing our politicians are front man for the bankers and the curtain has been pulled back showing the oligarch ruling in the shadows.


The media and the government moving the discredit and destroy the opposition is loosing its effect to mold public opinion. They can not pull false flags events. They can no long use the word Anti Semite or racist to avoid having a real debate. They are in a panic. They may be dangerous. But they can be beaten. We will win.


When they try to puff up looking strong. Remember they’re at their weakest.

[Horn]

Which side is standing to gain from this tragedy?

Why would Porky haul off with a terrorist claim, when it blows any ineptitude fingering of Russian support?

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPNfpWScXGM

Video shows Kolomoisky forces firing on MH17

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/

[Serpo]

One of PatColos links.............

good reason why Malasia is targeted.............

http://rt.com/op-edge/tribunal-israel-genocide-key-precedent-711/

[Horn]

6609.

Ukraine's Secret Weapon: Feisty Oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky
http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-1403886665

[Neuro]

6609.

Ukraine's Secret Weapon: Feisty Oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky


http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-secret-weapon-feisty-oligarch-ihor-kolomoisky-1403886665
Do you or anyone else have the full article, and can paste it here? I wouldn't like to subscribe WSJ... But lemme guess Oligarch Ihor belongs to the same tribe as the ones Putin took down in Russia more than a decade ago.

[Neuro]

Do you or anyone else have the full article, and can paste it here? I wouldn't like to subscribe WSJ... But lemme guess Oligarch Ihor belongs to the same tribe as the ones Putin took down in Russia more than a decade ago.
This was the first that came up on joogle:
"Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi is an Ukrainian‑Cypriot‑Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent and the…"

What an Ukrainian nationalist! Fucking scum!

[Horn]

Do you or anyone else have the full article, and can paste it here? I wouldn't like to subscribe WSJ... But lemme guess Oligarch Ihor belongs to the same tribe as the ones Putin took down in Russia more than a decade ago.

Strange, before i hotlinked it I was able to see the entire article, appears only gotten from a Google search...

The takeaway is oligarchs are like women, can't live without them.



New Governor of Dnipropetrovsk Takes on Pro-Russia Separatists, but Critics Worry About Growing Power of Oligarchs


DNIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine—Leaning over a map of eastern Ukraine on his desk, Gennady Korban gripped a ballpoint pen and drew a squiggling blue line down its center.
The border, he said, marked the battlefront in his country's war with pro-Russia separatists. One side was stable, rid of "troublemakers," he said. On the other are "maniacs," he said. "Men without families, who don't want families, they just like war." If they cross over the line, he said, "we'll just have to kill them."


He called the border "Kolomoisky's line"—after his billionaire boss, who is emerging as one of the more unlikely protagonists to emerge from Ukraine's fight for survival.
When its high-profile conflict with Russia began, the fledgling government in Kiev was caught flat-footed, with an army with little fighting experience (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303949704579457591983371478)or funding. Enter Ihor Kolomoisky, a 51-year-old outspoken banking tycoon. Now recently appointed by the country's president as governor of Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine, he has decided to dip into his fortune to bolster that army and defend the homeland.


So far, that has included buying tires, car batteries and fuel for army units, as well outfitting local militias. He also announced a program to buy up contraband weapons and offer a $10,000 bounty for any pro-Russia militant captured with a gun. Without disclosing numbers, Mr. Kolomoisky's deputies call the program a success, though they say a few drunks have tried to turn in some compatriots for reward.

Notable for having a massive shark aquarium in his office, Mr. Kolomoisky has arrived on the scene as the conflict with Russia drags (http://online.wsj.com/articles/putin-calls-for-broad-dialogue-to-resolve-ukraine-crisis-1403442669)into its fourth month. (On Friday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko extended a week-long cease-fire with pro-Russia fighters until Monday night.) Certainly the country, with a dire shortage of battle-ready troops, could use a billionaire's backing—and this particular one has no shortage of ideas. Earlier this month, he announced a plan to build a 1,200-mile electrified fence spanning the border of Russia and Ukraine.

But critics question Mr. Kolomoisky's motives, pointing out that he and other oligarchs in Ukraine may have more financial than altruistic reasons for maintaining the status quo. For years now, critics say, the oligarchs' powerful influence over many industries have blocked economic reforms in a country that has one of Europe's lowest average per capita incomes.

"These are precisely the opposite of the sorts of people would you want to appoint" as governors, said Mark Kramer, professor of Cold War studies at Harvard University. "It's hard for me to see why those who fought for change in Ukraine would want such people in charge."

To oversee military operations, Mr. Kolomoisky appointed Mr. Korban, who describes himself as a conflict manager in hostile corporate takeovers. In widely reported incidents, Mr. Korban narrowly escaped two assassination attempts during his career—when his car was machine-gunned and when someone planted a bomb under a table. "I know one thing, we can only win this war with a real army," said Mr. Korban. But, he said, until the army is ready for an offensive, he and Mr. Kolomoisky are taking temporary measures.

In a rare interview, Mr. Kolomoisky declined to say how much he is spending personally to build up what his aides call the "Kolomoisky army," but experts estimate it is about $10 million a month just to fund the salaries of militia and police units, some of whom technically report to Ukraine's army and interior ministry. His province now has close to 2,000 battle-ready troops in the field, his aides say. By comparison, Ukraine's army had only 6,000 through the entire country when Russia took control of the Crimean peninsula (http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2014/03/18/5-reasons-vladimir-putin-gave-for-annexing-crimea/)earlier this year.

For their part, Ukraine government officials say they are happy to have his help. Mr. Kolomoisky didn't address any specific criticism about him, but did say his job as governor has mainly hurt, not helped, his business interests. Still, Privat Bank, the bank he controls, could stand to gain from aid being pumped into Ukraine that will partly be used to recapitalize the country's banks regardless of the Russian threat. This spring, for example, the International Monetary Fund approved $17 billion in aid to Ukraine, and the World Bank and Group of Seven leading nations plan to pump in another $15 billion soon.

A rotund man who is fond of home-cooked meals, Mr. Kolomoisky said he had been directing his businesses from a home in Switzerland, but returned to Ukraine in March to take the governor's job. He said he is ready to quit it as soon as the threat of pro-Russia separatism subsides in Ukraine.

He took the governor's post, he said, on principle to oppose Russia's policy of bullying Ukraine away from closer ties to Europe. He said he believes along with most Ukrainians that the country must follow the development of European countries that had been under Moscow's heel as members of the Warsaw Pact. "It would have been possible to have warmer relations with Russia, but I'm not going to sacrifice my principles for it," he said. "I'm a die-hard European."

He described the rise of oligarchs like himself in Ukraine as a natural stage in the transition of some countries to democracy, similar to the robber barons of the U.S. at the beginning of the 1900s. Today, a handful of tycoons control most of the heavy industries and media of Ukraine. But Mr. Kolomoisky said he hopes such oligarchs will ultimately disappear as a class.

Not one to mince words, the tycoon quickly drew attention when he took office, saying in his first local television appearance that Russian President Vladimir Putin (http://topics.wsj.com/person/P/Vladimir-Putin/6409) was a "schizophrenic of short stature" and was "completely incapable, totally insane." Mr. Putin, who stands 5 feet 7 inches, shot back, calling Mr. Kolomoisky a "unique impostor" and expressing amazement that "such a scoundrel could be appointed governor." Russian authorities then put the Moscow subsidiary of Mr. Kolomoisky's Privat Bank under temporary administration, saying it was having liquidity problems. The unit was sold to a Russian company, protecting customers.

Mr. Kolomoisky's acquaintances say he never showed much interest in politics, but he did like to make money. In Ukraine's loosely regulated market, he thrived as a pioneer with aggressive takeover tactics such as getting obscure provincial courts to change a company's share registrar, or hiring armed guards to seize company offices, said Tom Warner, a former Ukraine analyst for Sito Capital, an emerging markets fund manager. Mr. Korban, the billionaire's takeover manager, says all of these tactics were legal. "In the rest of the world it's called mergers and acquisitions," he said.
About 10 years after founding with some friends Privat Bank, and expanding his empire into numerous businesses, Mr. Kolomoisky began in 2000 to think about raising his political profile. Dmitry Vydrin, a political consultant from Kiev, said Mr. Kolomoisky invited him for a chat in his office in Dnipropetrovsk, where the banking magnate listened, but also periodically pressed a button on a remote-control box on his desk that dropped crayfish meat to the sharks in his aquarium. "It was unnerving," said Mr. Vydrin.

Mr. Kolomoisky steered clear of open party politics, but did acquire a nationally broadcast television station and a news service. That "has more influence than having a party in parliament," Mr. Korban explained to a Ukrainian newspaper in 2007.

In the interview, Mr. Kolomoisky said he and his partners never offered any financial support to protesters before the president, Viktor Yanukovych, was ousted, but he did support them through his television channel. He said discussions about becoming governor started in January—the month before the president fled—but declined to say whom they were with.

By the time he arrived in the governor's office, pro-Russia groups were seizing control of government buildings in nearby provinces, and moving to do the same in Dnipropetrovsk. He moved quickly on several fronts, said a deputy governor, Boris Filatov.

Mr. Filatov said he was assigned to defuse tensions by holding meetings with various political groups and listening to their complaints. He and Mr. Kolomoisky met with veterans groups and promised more patriotic education in the schools, and with Communists, to whom he promised to pay respects to some historic monuments. Local fascists "wanted to do more sports," Mr. Filatov said. "So we gave them gyms."
As Mr. Filatov tells it, pro-Russia demonstrations in the city at first drew about 1,500 people, but soon their numbers dwindled to 500, then 300, "and soon there weren't any meetings at all."

Critics of Mr. Kolomoisky said there was a more brutal campaign behind the scenes. Viktor Marchenko led meetings of his local chapter of Union of Soviet Officers, clamoring for a return to Soviet borders, until some unidentified men punched him in the head at one event, he said. He blamed Mr. Kolomoisky, who is Jewish, and said "there will be consequences" for the Jewish community one day. The tycoon didn't discuss the incident in the interview.
Oleg Tsarev, a local pro-Russia parliament member, also led some meetings, but left Ukraine after he was beaten by a mob in Kiev. After decamping to Moscow he received a phone call from Mr. Kolomoisky, a recording of which was posted on the Internet.
In a conversation laced with invective, Mr. Kolomoisky told him that a Jewish soldier from the Dnipro Battalion had been killed in fighting and that members of the Jewish community had put a reward of a million dollars on Tsarev's head. "They will be looking for you everywhere," Mr. Kolomoisky said. "Don't go anywhere."

Mr. Kolomoisky confirmed the tape was real. Mr. Korban said there was nothing wrong with the phone call. "He was just giving him his opinion, he wasn't threatening him," Mr. Korban said.

Mr. Korban said business contacts from Privat Group, an informal nebula of companies controlled by Mr. Kolomoisky and his partners, have been useful in supplying the army and militia units, allowing him to contact heads of major local chains to cut deals for military supplies. The tycoon's team also funneled volunteers into a local militia, called the Dnipro Battalion, that were outfitted with gray SUVs and new uniforms. More lightly armed militias were cobbled together as well, to man checkpoints around the province.

Today the Dnipro Battalion has not only the 2,000 battle-ready troops, equipped with heavy weapons, but more than 20,000 in reserve. If any Russian soldier wants to die for Russia, said Yury Beryoza, the commander of the battalion, "they should come to Dnipropetrovsk, because here we will kill them."

The Dnipro Batallion saw its first major action when separatists took control of a police station in the port city of Mariupol, in an adjacent province. The station was burned to the ground with its occupants. In all, 54 volunteers from Dnipropetrovsk have been killed since the beginning of the fighting.

Mr. Korban said Dnipropetrovsk is expanding the borders of its influence, with regional militias taking over four regions inside the adjacent province of Donetsk and installing regional administration heads who are friendly to Mr. Kolomoisky. Mr. Korban called it a "buffer zone" and said they were prepared to take four more regions.

He said Mr. Kolomoisky has brought in Romanian and Georgian military advisers to help with the training of troops, who in the Dnipro Battallion until recently only had a week of boot camp. He also invited Georgia's former president, Mikheil Saakashvili, to visit and bring some of his former advisers to help them streamline the bureaucracy of the Dnipropetrovsk government.

Mr. Saakashvili, whose country was invaded in 2008 after years of cross-border altercations with Russia, said he spent two days in Dnipropetrovsk last month, and said the situation looked a lot like Georgia's before the war.
He said that Mr. Putin was able to seize Crimea and destabilize eastern provinces by acting quickly, but that Mr. Kolomoisky appears to have halted his progress by moving faster than anyone expected.

As an oligarch who has insulted Mr. Putin's height "he is really everything that Putin hates," said Mr. Saakashvili, who believes now that Mr. Kolomoisky's appearance is a bad development for the Russian leader. "I used to think that I was Putin's No. 1 enemy," he said, "but now I think an oligarch just pushed me aside."

[Serpo]

"It's hard for me to see why those who fought for change in Ukraine would want such people in charge."


..........

[Neuro]

In a conversation laced with invective, Mr. Kolomoisky told him that a Jewish soldier from the Dnipro Battalion had been killed in fighting and that members of the Jewish community had put a reward of a million dollars on Tsarev's head. "They will be looking for you everywhere," Mr. Kolomoisky said. "Don't go anywhere."
psychopath zionist talmudist!

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPNfpWScXGM

Video shows Kolomoisky forces firing on MH17

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/27/notes-on-mh17/




Was there still snow on the ground in Ukraine July 17th?

[Neuro]

Was there still snow on the ground in Ukraine July 17th?
Yellow wheat fields?

[Horn]

Yellow wheat fields?

Sno way!

[PatColo]

One of PatColos links.............

good reason why Malasia is targeted.............

http://rt.com/op-edge/tribunal-israel-genocide-key-precedent-711/

RT is certainly truthier than our trusty ZSM, but as I've also seen from RT in the past, they are awfully charitable re some of the foundational Big Lies which have helped push us into this JWO predicament we're in today. In the instance of the above article, these lies would be re WW2, the holohoax, and the legitimacy of the Nuremberg Kangaroo Trials.

RT's Abbey Martin, a prominent 911 truth activist in the latter half of the '00s, even backed away from 911 Truth a year or so ago... she has a blog at 911blogger doing so... though I don't have time to find it right now. :-[

[Glass]

Abbey Martin

too short

[Glass]

Yellow wheat fields?

It's probably GM Canola or something.

[PatColo]

too short

heh? is Martin a joo name?

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=657&q=abbey+martin+rt

I'd hit it ^ (albeit she's a little twiggier than I like)

[Horn]

I'd hit it ^ (albeit she's a little twiggier than I like)

6612

I think Glass meant Martian ...

http://37.media.tumblr.com/23a5d37232922e02fa0ca50c72a040ae/tumblr_n7s3icltCg1qzspj4o1_500.png

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteO0aZTZf4

[Serpo]

Was there still snow on the ground in Ukraine July 17th?

Infra red imaging..............

[Glass]

so you just have to watch someone as they lie through their teeth. And to be polite, of course you cannot say, you're are a liar.

as to the passports. I've seen nothing indicating they were cancelled passports. Anyone know where this idea came from? The story from the video Serpo posted is they have been hole punched or clipped indicating they are expired or cancelled.

There is also a lot of talk about the condition of the passports. My own experience, after 10 years my last passport looks in very good condition. Granted it hasn't been used for travel in 10 years but I have carried it with me every working day.

Another thing about passports is that a lot of people still have not travelled to another country so it's possible that the passports look so new because they are. Some of them may have been issued purely for the journey the people were on.

If you travel as part of a tour, it is sometimes the case that your tour guide will at some point collect passports from the tour participants. This might be for check in purposes or for filling out visa paperwork. It can also be for safe keeping or hotel and other tour arrangements. It does happen. Which could explain why a number of passports were together.

I wonder how many people have viewed their loved ones remains.... just to make sure it's them.

[Horn]

Infra red imaging..............

Fields are not warmer than tar roads unless they're on fire.

6614

http://www.universityscanir.com/papers/The_Benefits_of_Aerial_Infrared_Thermal_Mapping.ht m

[Horn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dteO0aZTZf4

He should have brought up the malaysian case against israel. lol!

This woman doesn't seem qualified to do what she's doing, I guess she is the answer to Putin's blonde attorney general in Crimea?

[Glass]

as to the passports. I've seen nothing indicating they were cancelled passports. Anyone know where this idea came from? The story from the video Serpo posted is they have been hole punched or clipped indicating they are expired or cancelled.


I can see in a Dahboo77 video that one of the passports has a hole punched through it like a paper punch and another one has a small triangle cut from the cover. I do believe either of those things can mean a passport is expired. But I can only 2 in that condition. The others seem to be intact.

[Serpo]

He should have brought up the malaysian case against israel. lol!

This woman doesn't seem qualified to do what she's doing, I guess she is the answer to Putin's blonde attorney general in Crimea?

On the other hand shes perfect because she answers in such stupid ways all you can do is shake your head............dumbing down...........what she says carries weight (government) except its basically stupid.

[Serpo]

Fields are not warmer than tar roads unless they're on fire.

6614

http://www.universityscanir.com/papers/The_Benefits_of_Aerial_Infrared_Thermal_Mapping.ht m

I just remember it being said about the imaging ,not really up on that sort of stuff though............

[Serpo]

So now the dutch doctor after the general reckons the bodies where dead for days,,,,,,,what is a person meant to make of that...........

[Horn]

So now the dutch doctor after the general reckons the bodies where dead for days,,,,,,,what is a person meant to make of that...........

Got link? It was obvious when looking at that video posted earlier.

I see comments regarding it, within the first day he supposedly arrived at that conclusion, but nothing that names him and the exact statement.

The blonde doesn't seem in touch with "consent of the governed" notion. lol!

[Glass]

On the other hand shes perfect because she answers in such stupid ways all you can do is shake your head............dumbing down...........what she says carries weight (government) except its basically stupid.

She is doing a great job. Reminds me of snow piercer.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?76562-Snowpiercer-2013&p=700933&viewfull=1#post700933

[Horn]

She is doing a great job. Reminds me of snow piercer.
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?76562-Snowpiercer-2013&p=700933&viewfull=1#post700933

is that same stiffly upper woman lip, only allows the bottom lip to flub about.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J76MG3u8CaY

[Horn]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/sites/foxnewsinsider.com/files/styles/480_270/public/062414_harf_417.jpg?itok=Mjvqlmks


Harf began her career at the Directorate of Intelligence at the Central Intelligence Agency as an analyst focusing on Middle Eastern leadership issues. She later became the media spokesperson of the CIA. During the 2012 presidential election, Harf helped craft President Obama's national security and communications strategy, and also served as campaign spokeswoman on national security issues. In June 2013, Harf was appointed Deputy Spokesperson for the US State Department, where she currently serves as deputy under Jen Psaki.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P39x8SGRtrw&amp;feature=youtu.be

Whatever Happened to the Peter Principle?

http://ricochet.com/tag/marie-harf/

[Glass]

I happened upon an online version of 1984. Been a while since I read it. Seems we are 100% there now.

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm
If anyone hasn't yet, please read.

[Serpo]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/sites/foxnewsinsider.com/files/styles/480_270/public/062414_harf_417.jpg?itok=Mjvqlmks




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P39x8SGRtrw&amp;feature=youtu.be

Whatever Happened to the Peter Principle?

http://ricochet.com/tag/marie-harf/

so her name is Harf..............................is that like harf a brain

[Horn]

so her name is Harf..............................is that like harf a brain

Hey man, she's only a deputy.

Whad'ya expect Burnetta Fife? :)

[Glass]

Hey man, she's only a deputy.

Whad'ya expect Burnetta Fife? :)

To whit or two wit or ......

[Horn]

You have to wonder, these kids come out of college than get indoctrinated straight into the CIA. The Snowden guy seemed slightly real world though just basically a head case unto himself.

But some others (like her) are just encapsulated, knowing their lines, they get fame and fortune in their private lives then go home like they just played a field hockey game.

Can't help but think they won't be able or capable to pull any slightly convincing false flags off in the future.

Maybe they will just give up on them? Or they won't need to with who they are surrounded by....their peers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFuaYA-daw

[Glass]

once they get the blog sphere shut down there will be no information so she won't be answering questions..

Members here might want to brush up on the principles of NewSpeak. While it comes from a work considered fictional. It's clearly where things are being taken. We've seen this with Common Core. The objective is to remove the ability to think.

Newspeak is the official language of Oceania, scheduled for official adoption around 2050, and designed to make the ideological premises of Ingsoc (Newspeak for English Socialism, the Party’s official political alignment) the only expressible doctrine. Newspeak is engineered to remove even the possibility of rebellious thoughts—the words by which such thoughts might be articulated have been eliminated from the language. Newspeak contains no negative terms. For example, the only way to express the meaning of “bad” is through the word “ungood.” Something extremely bad is called “doubleplus ungood.”

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/1984/section11.rhtml

From our friend Symes.

'It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. Of course the great wastage is in the verbs and adjectives, but there are hundreds of nouns that can be got rid of as well. It isn't only the synonyms; there are also the antonyms. After all, what justification is there for a word which is simply the opposite of some other word? A word contains its opposite in itself. Take "good", for instance. If you have a word like "good", what need is there for a word like "bad"? "Ungood" will do just as well -- better, because it's an exact opposite, which the other is not. Or again, if you want a stronger version of "good", what sense is there in having a whole string of vague useless words like "excellent" and "splendid" and all the rest of them? "Plusgood" covers the meaning, or "doubleplusgood" if you want something stronger still. Of course we use those forms already. but in the final version of Newspeak there'll be nothing else. In the end the whole notion of goodness and badness will be covered by only six words -- in reality, only one word. Don't you see the beauty of that, Winston? It was B.B.'s idea originally, of course,' he added as an afterthought.

Link (http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984_c5.htm)

here is a description of Symes

'Just the man I was looking for,' said a voice at Winston's back.

He turned round. It was his friend Syme, who worked in the Research Department. Perhaps 'friend' was not exactly the right word. You did not have friends nowadays, you had comrades: but there were some comrades whose society was pleasanter than that of others. Syme was a philologist, a specialist in Newspeak. Indeed, he was one of the enormous team of experts now engaged in compiling the Eleventh Edition of the Newspeak Dictionary. He was a tiny creature, smaller than Winston, with dark hair and large, protuberant eyes, at once mournful and derisive, which seemed to search your face closely while he was speaking to you.

'I wanted to ask you whether you'd got any razor blades,' he said.

I thought the new speak destuction of the language was interesting. Designed to be more efficient because it takes away free expression and give people a basic response. But instead of one word you now need 2 or 3 words that you jam together vocally to make it sound like one word. Doubleplusgood. 3 words. How is that better than "excellent". But it's not the point of newspeak.

I read this book 30 years ago. I knew something was up back then but I didn't know much about the what that I do today. It makes for interesting reading this time around. You pick up on some other oblique references he makes which stand out given the times we are in now.

[Horn]

Definitely walks on the 50/50 line and what is stated in the Bible as God spitting out the lukewarm.

[PatColo]

I've just begun listening to this, but they're speculating about the "disappeared" Mal flight from a few months ago, and this ukraine Mal plane... are the already decomposing bodies those of the earlier disappeared Mal flight? Kollerstrom is a (former) UK univ prof, fired for his research into holohoax, 911 & 7/7.

title is the MP3 link:

Monday, July 21, 2014


Nick Kollerstrom / George Lees & Gordon Bowen / Dennis Cimino (http://nwopodcast.com/fetz/media/jim%20fetzer%20real%20deal-MH17%20and%20Iraq%20updates.mp3)


MH17 / Iraq / MH17
Posted by Total at 11:22 PM No comments: (http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com/2014/07/nick-kollerstrom-george-lees-gordon.html#comment-form)

[Serpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFzM6yE3qqc&amp;list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ

[Glass]

I don't know how they can read something that small to tell the plane number. Can you read it?

[osoab]

Bullet Holes?

I will also link to the original article that is in German. I don't know if the pics will embed. They are pdfs when I clicked on them. Looks like bullet/projectile holes to me.


(http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-mh17-sensation-german-experts-point-finger-at-ukrainian-air-force-jets/#LROUzcBB4Wd05RH3.99)Surface to air missile attack ruled out as calibre of cockpit bullet holes puts Ukraine pilots in the frame for MH17 murders (http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-mh17-sensation-german-experts-point-finger-at-ukrainian-air-force-jets/#LROUzcBB4Wd05RH3.99)



This is what a German pilot-cum-air technology expert Peter Haisenko has just published (http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/schockierende-analyse-zum-abschuss-der-malaysian-mh-017/) on the subject of the MH17 disaster (my emphases):

‘The misfortune of the Malaysian MH 017 is known to all. The flight
recorder is in England and is being evaluated. What can come of this?

May be more than you want to accept….if you look at the image of
Cockpit-Fragments, this picture is certainly shocking.

Entry And Exit holes from bullets in the area of the Cockpit.

This is not speculation, but analysis of clear facts: the cockpit
shows clear evidence of bullet holes. You can see the entry holes and
some exit points. The edges of the bullet holes are bent inwards,
these are much smaller and round in shape. A 30mm calibre. The exit
holes are less well formed and the edges are torn outwards.

Furthermore it is visible that the exit holes have torn the double
aluminium skin and bent them outwards. That is to say, splinters from
inside the cockpit blew through the outside of the cabin. The open
rivets have also been bent outwards….There is only one conclusion one can make, and that is that this: the
aircraft was not hit by a missile. The damage to the aircraft is
exclusively in the cockpit area….

Armour-Piercing Ammunition.

Russia has published radar data that a
Ukranian SU 25 was close to MH 017. this corresponds with Spanish air
traffic control that two Ukranian fighter aircraft were in direct
contact with MH 017. Examine the weaponry of the SU 25: it is fitted
out with a 30mm cannon Type GSch-302 /AO-17A, with 250 rounds of
splintering exploding bullets on a belt – shrapnel rounds. The cockpit
of MH 017 was hit from TWO sides, as there are entry and exit holes on
the same side….’

Very compelling stuff, is it not?

Now read this (also German) article (http://www.presseportal.de/pm/59019/2791311/neues-deutschland-nva-raketenspezialist-mh17-nicht-von-boden-luft-rakete-abgeschossen) by defence expert Bernd Biederman, who offers equally sound reasons why the
shooting down could NOT have been from a surface to air missile:

‘ the shooting down of the Malaysian
Boeing on July 17 in the Eastern Ukraine “could not have been hit by a
surface to air defense missile” .

This is the assessment of retired Colonel Bernd Biedermann in an
article for the daily newspaper published in Berlin “new Germany”
(Thursday edition). Had splinters from a surface to air missile hit
the plane, it would have immediately caught fire, argues the NVA
anti-aircraft missile specialist. His reasoning is because of the
“enormous frictional heat that the splinters generate on penetrating
the fuselage. A single splinter contains the same kinetic energy as a
40-ton freight car hitting the buffers at 60 kilometers per hour.” In
the case of the Malaysian Boeing, scattered fires had broken out after
the impact with the ground, because hot debris from the aircraft had
come in contact with combustible materials.

Biedermann is familiar with Soviet and Russian air defense technology,
he led units in the duty officer system in East Germany and taught at
the Military Academy in the field of anti-aircraft missile troops.’

Articles are beginning to appear across the Web to the effect that Angela Merkel is disturbed by (and growing tired of) the incessant US propaganda being emitted in favour of its energy agenda….and so we must perhaps in turn view these articles in the light of her alleged new agenda concerning the creation of an alternative bloc to that of America. (More on this here in the near future).

But spin or not, these analyses make sense. The US State Dept has now shifted its position from ‘Russian atrocity’ to ‘tragic accident’. The above opinions suggest that neither are true: they suggest strongly that the Ukrainian air force took out MH17.


German original. Pics at this link.

Schockierende Analyse zum Abschuss der Malaysian MH 017

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_topelement_47299592d2.jpg http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_mh17-einschu__sse_347aae93af.jpg http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_MH17_Schusse_Tragflaeche_c5b6a474a4.jpg
(http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/schockierende-analyse-zum-abschuss-der-malaysian-mh-017/)

[Horn]

Bullet Holes?

That would explain the partial explosion on the ground, or that a Russian filled it full of holes afterward.

[Glass]

I don't think it is bullet holes. I'd expect them to be a fair bit larger. Shrapnel more probable. I think the missiles don't need to impact/touch before they explode. OR the fact that both were moving at high speed the impact was glancing.

[Dogman]

I don't think it is bullet holes. I'd expect them to be a fair bit larger. Shrapnel more probable. I think the missiles don't need to impact/touch before they explode. OR the fact that both were moving at high speed the impact was glancing.

Ball bearings.

[Glass]

Ball bearings.

I did wonder how the missiles are made up. Do they rely on their casing to form shrapnel during the explosion or are they loaded with some form of shrapnel.

[osoab]

Ball bearings.

How many ball bearings are near the cockpit? Wouldn't the vast majority of the bearings be located in the engines?

Using the premise that the majority of bearings used in a plane are in the engines, what are the odds that a majority of ball bearings would all impact just the cockpit area? I am guessing on number of ball bearings here. However, looking at the number of impacts from both sides, it seems to me that a majority of all of the engine bearings would have to been directed towards the cockpit to get that number of holes in that small of an area of intact fuselage. (I am also assuming that this a part of the cockpit in the pics shown)

[Dogman]

How many ball bearings are near the cockpit? Wouldn't the vast majority of the bearings be located in the engines?

Using the premise that the majority of bearings used in a plane are in the engines, what are the odds that a majority of ball bearings would all impact just the cockpit area? I am guessing on number of ball bearings here. However, looking at the number of impacts from both sides, it seems to me that a majority of all of the engine bearings would have to been directed towards the cockpit to get that number of holes in that small of an area of intact fuselage. (I am also assuming that this a part of the cockpit in the pics shown) Just a guess on the bearings, but a bunch of mines and stuff use them.

Not a clue about the spread, but think of this it would depend on where the warhead exploded, how far from the airliner and such, also the missile was going much faster, so did it meet the airliner head on, up from the middle, or catch up to it?

Also not sure if the missile could explode directionally or in a circle around the warhead, some anti tank can direct most of the explosion down on the weaker topside of the tank. This antiaircraft missile I have not a clue about the warhead.

Also as the warhead explodes, the shrapnel will be still travailing in the same direction and speed as the missile, and also the the direction of the explosion.

Will say this it was enough to swat the airliner out of the sky and turn it into chunky pieces, in part from the explosive decompression as the hull of the plane was breached.

Not sure how many or the size of the ball bearings, but I bet they were bearings.

Wordy arnt I!

;)

[Horn]

Where is this ball bearings thing coming from?

And Glass how can you tell from those photos if it were shrapnel or bullets?

There is one hole circled on that wing piece, or what is that?

[Horn]

There is one hole circled on that wing piece, or what is that?

O.K. on that wing piece I am assuming the german fellow deduced the scuff adjacent to it is from a 30mm glancing blow, or scuff with the type of armor piecing HE ammo stated.

6621

No I don't think they pack rocket warheads with ball bearings its all HE material up there with a detonator.

[Horn]

Flight MH17! Witnesses Say Bodies Had Practically 'No Blood', Already Smelled Badly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvuIhO8hACA

[Glass]

I get the decomposition angle however if your insides are ripped out and all of the waste in your guts are spilled everywhere then there could be some smell. I've encountered a fair few dead animals from ones that I killed and gutted to ones that had died and were lying on the side of a road or in bushland. So I know that sweet rotting smell. As for the lack of blood angle does seem odd. No explanation for that other than cold. It is tending to look like the flight 370 aircraft was involved. Of course as I said in the very first post on this. We needed to get some airframe numbers so we could look them up. That would have been definitive IMO. Engine numbers might have also helped.

[old steel]

Sorry double post.

[Serpo]

Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17. “Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile” By Peter Haisenko (http://www.globalresearch.ca/author/haisenko)
Global Research, July 30, 2014
anderweltonline.com (http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/)

Region: Russia and FSU (http://www.globalresearch.ca/region/russia-and-fsu)
Theme: US NATO War Agenda (http://www.globalresearch.ca/theme/us-nato-war-agenda)
In-depth Report: UKRAINE REPORT (http://www.globalresearch.ca/indepthreport/ukraine-report)


7585
959 125
9537


http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Malaysia-MH17.jpg
Zur deutschen Version bitte hier anklicken (http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/schockierende-analyse-zum-abschuss-der-malaysian-mh-017/) -
The tragedy of Malaysian MH 017 continues to elude any light of clarity being cast over it.
The flight recorders are in England and are evaluated. What can come of it? Maybe more than you would assume.
Especially the voice recorder will be interesting when you look at the picture of a cockpit fragment. As an expert in aviation I closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.

http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_DC10Pe_a90e51467f.jpg
Peter Haisenko in Cockpit of Condor DC 10
First, I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. This image, however, is shocking. In Washington, you can now hear views expressed of a “potentially tragic error / accident” regarding MH 017. Given this particular cockpit image it does not surprise me at all.
Entry and exit impact holes of projectiles in the cockpit area
Source for all photos: Internet


http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_topelement_47299592d2.jpg (http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf)I recommend to click on the little picture to the left. You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.
In sifting through the available images one thing stands out: All wreckage of the sections behind the cockpit are largely intact, except for the fact that only fragments of the aircraft remained . Only the cockpit part shows these peculiar marks of destruction. This leaves the examiner with an important clue. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area. Now you have to factor in that this part is constructed of specially reinforced material. This is on account of the nose of any aircraft having to withstand the impact of a large bird at high speeds. You can see in the photo, that in this area significantly stronger aluminum alloys were being installed than in the remainder of the outer skin of the fuselage. One remembers the crash of Pan Am over Lockerbie. It was a large segment of the cockpit that due to the special architecture survived the crash in one piece. In the case of flight MH 017 it becomes abundantly clear that there also an explosion took place inside the aircraft.
Tank destroying mix of ammunition
Bullet holes in the outer skin



http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_mh17-einschu__sse_c43fcedbcc.jpgSo what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!
Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.
What “mistake” was actually being committed – and by whom?
http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_MH17_Schusse_Tragflaeche_c5b6a474a4.jpg



Graze on the wing
Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of construction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.
If you listen to the voices from Washington now who speak of a “potentially tragic error / accident”, all that remains is the question of what might have been the nature of this “mistake” perpetrated here. I am not given to hover long in the realm of speculation, but would like to invite others to consider the following : The MH 017 looked similar in it’s tricolor design to that that of the Russian President’s plane. The plane with President Putin on board was at the same time ”near” Malaysia MH 017. In aviation circles “close” would be considered to be anywhere between 150 to 200 miles. Also, in this context we might consider the deposition of Ms. Tymoshenko, who wanted to shoot President Putin with a Kalashnikov.
But that this remains pure speculation. The shelling of the cockpit of air Malaysia MH 017, however, is definitely not speculation.





http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111

[Serpo]

Russia fears Ukraine seeks to destroy MH17 jet crash evidence Russia (http://en.itar-tass.com/russia)
July 31, 1:39 UTC+4
Russian permanent representative to the U.N. Vitaly Churkin said that Ukrainian President Pyotr Poroshenko had ordered a ceasefire within a radius of 40 kilometres of the MH17 jet crash

http://videocdn.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20140731/1054604.jpg
© EPA/ROBERT GHEMENT

UNITED NATIONS, July 31, /ITAR-TASS/. Russia fears that Kiev seeks to destroy evidence of Ukraine’s role in the crash of Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane, Russian permanent representative to the U.N. Vitaly Churkin said on Wednesday, July 30.
He said Ukrainian President Pyotr Poroshenko had ordered a ceasefire within a radius of 40 kilometres of the MH17 jet crash.
“However, the order was broken. Ukrainian officials set a new task - to mop up the area from militiamen and take the territory under control,” he said.
Such actions “violate U.N. Security Council Resolution 2136 and are fraught with the disastrous consequences for an impartial investigation of the tragedy”, Churkin said.
On July 28, the Russian delegation urged members of the U.N. Security Council to adopt “a statement for the press calling for a full, thorough and international investigation”.
“However, Russia’s proposed was blocked by certain U.N. Security Council members, who are against the implementation of Resolution 2166,” he said.
On July 17, a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 passenger airliner on flight MH17 from the Dutch city of Amsterdam to the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur crashed in eastern Ukraine’s embattled Donetsk Region, killing all 298 people on board.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/742994

[Serpo]

Sounding like the flight was blown out of the sky by a Ukrainian fighter jet with a hit to the cockpit with anti tank exploding armaments.

Must of been planned before hand as false recordings are dead give away.

Ukrainian gov then immediately has full story of who did it as soon as it hit the ground and squawked so loud everyone in the world heard and most still believe these lies.

Plane hits ground and explodes on impact...........

[Neuro]

Sounding like the flight was blown out of the sky by a Ukrainian fighter jet with a hit to the cockpit with anti tank exploding armaments.

Must of been planned before hand as false recordings are dead give away.

Ukrainian gov then immediately has full story of who did it as soon as it hit the ground and squawked so loud everyone in the world heard and most still believe these lies.

Plane hits ground and explodes on impact...........
That is the simplest explanation and I think the likeliest...

[mick silver]

http://blog.sciencelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/puppet_master.jpg

[PatColo]

They didn't mention but I will, malaysia also hosted an int'l 911 Tribunal several years ago which concluded inside job (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9c9_1353088784). More recently in another tribunal they found bush & blair guilty of iraq war crimes (http://rt.com/news/court-bush-blair-iraq-043/). And in 2013,Why the Kuala Lumpur Tribunal’s genocide verdict against Israel sets a key precedent (http://rt.com/op-edge/tribunal-israel-genocide-key-precedent-711/). Mal's former PM Mahathir said in a speech a decade back, Malaysian Leader: 'Jews Rule World by Proxy' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/10/16/malaysian-leader-jews-rule-world-by-proxy). Good hour.


Mathias Chang is a bit challenging to deciper here coz of his accent, and the line has a steady buzz of static, but his message is important. He obviously read my post above, :D


Spingola and Friends 8/5/2014 (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2014/08/spingola-and-friends-852014.html)
Deanna's guest is Matthias Chang (http://www.futurefastforward.com/). He talks about MH17 and US propaganda. Chang lives in Malaysia and is the author of three bestsellers, Future FastForward; Brainwashed for War, Programmed to kill; and The Shadow Money-Lenders and the Global Financial Tsunami. Chang also talked about the 5-year long criminal tribunal where it found Blair and Bush guilty of war crimes. He suggests that the tribunal has something to do with the elites targeting Malaysia.
Show-page (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/deanna2/2014/08/04/spingola-and-friends)
www.spingola.com (http://www.spingola.com/index.htm)

The Holocaust Mega-post (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2013/12/hard-facts-of-holocaust.html)
The New Babylon - PDF (http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-new-babylon-those-who-reign-supreme.html)
Who Controls America? (http://thezog.info/)

Download (http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/6/743/show_6743619.mp3)

[Horn]

Maybe we'd all be better off in Malaysia, how to get there?

[PatColo]

^ Malaysia Airlines :D

really, djooz intent in targetting MAL was to crash the biz of one of the countries leading, most prestigious products, in retaliation for Malaysia's 3 tribunals. So the way to work it would be, patronize MAL!

Separately, maybe it's noted somewhere here already, but in that Chang/Spingola interview above, Chang notes that in the MAL downed over Ukraine, 8 of the corpses were NEKKID :O

That means when the spooks were loading the corpses onto the plane, they were prolly delivered in body bags by another set of spooks, nekkid, and none of the spooks had any clothes to put on them. So they just put them on the plane in their birthday suits. Another ham handed oversight in the planning of this sloppy FF.

[Horn]

A large plot for western TV viewers to change the channel whenever a story on Ukraine pops up.

[General of Darkness]

MH17 all but completely proven to be Flight 370http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/07/mh17-all-but-completely-proven-to-be.html

[MNeagle]

Did anyone catch these yesterday?



Malaysia Airlines, which lost 2 passenger jets this year, suspends trade in its shares ahead of 'pending material announcement' - @USATODAY

Read more on usatoday.com


Malaysia plans to delist Malaysia Airlines from stock exchange, making it fully state owned - @AP

breakingnews.com

[PatColo]

Yes Martha, it was djooz. Again. :rolleyes:

Bollyn:


The Downing of MH17 - Is Israel Involved? (http://bollyn.com/14832/)


August 9, 2014


He [Pinhas Lavon] inspired and cultivated the negative adventuristic trend in the army and preached the doctrine that not the Arab countries but the Western Powers are the enemy, and the only way to deter them from their plots is through direct actions that will terrorize them.


[Shimon] Peres shares the same ideology [as Lavon]: he wants to frighten the West into supporting Israel's aims.
- Moshe Sharett, Israel's Prime Minister and Foreign Minister, 1955




http://bollyn.com/public/MH17_cockpit.jpg

The evidence suggests that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down by a fighter jet at 33,000 feet. Who could be behind such a dastardly plot? Is this a false-flag operation with a twist?


We know that members of the Israeli military led the violent overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine in February 2014, and we know that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down while flying through the air traffic control region of Dnepropetrovsk, where the governor, Igor Kolomoisky, happens to be an Israeli billionaire involved in aviation companies. Furthermore, Yaron Mofaz, a relative of Shaul Mofaz, former chief of staff of the Israeli military, oddly took a photograph of the ill-fated Malaysian plane at the airport in Amsterdam shortly before it was shot down, which he then provided to Reuters.



http://bollyn.com/public/Kolomoisky_and_friends.jpg

IGOR KOLOMOISKY (2nd from left) the Israeli governor of Dnepropetrovsk is a prominent supporter of Ukraine's Jewish community and the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine. He owns several airlines as well. MH17 was in the air traffic control region of Dnepropetrovsk when it was shot down. For reasons that have not been explained MH17 was diverted from its normal route and instructed to fly across the war zone at a lower altitude of 33,000 feet by air traffic control of Dnepropetrovsk.



http://bollyn.com/public/Mofaz_MH17_photo_large.jpg

Yaron Mofaz, an relative of the former Chief-of-Staff of the Israeli military, took this photo of MH17 before it left Amsterdam on its ill-fated flight over Ukraine. Mofaz works with a company that owns a similar Malaysia Airlines plane that has been kept in a hanger in Tel Aviv since November 2013. So, why did he take this photo?


Yaron Mofaz also happens to be a director of a Mofaz family company that works closely with a company in Florida that owns a former Malaysia Airlines airliner, virtually identical to the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 and MH17. This Malaysian airliner, it just so happens, was sent to Israel in late 2013 where it was parked in a hangar in Tel Aviv. For these and other reasons it is logical that we consider the possibility that the shooting down of MH17 was an Israeli false-flag operation with a twist. Therefore, the real question is not whether Israel was involved, but to what degree was Israel involved in the atrocity?
A “false-flag operation with a twist” is meant to convey the idea that the downing of MH17 may be a kind of double false-flag operation, i.e. a false-flag within a false-flag. As we know, the United States and its western allies accuse the separatist pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine of downing the passenger airliner with a surface-to-air missile near Donetsk. To this date, however, no evidence has been provided to support this accusation although the United States had a spy satellite over the area where the plane was shot down when it happened. If they have evidence to support their allegation why have they not presented it?



The Russians, on the other hand, have presented evidence to support the scenario that the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet, allegedly a Sukhoi SU-25. The SU-25 is a Soviet-era ground-support aircraft which the Israelis have modified and upgraded. The Israeli-modified SU-25 is called the “Scorpion” (the SU-25KM), and features advanced avionics with a modern “glass cockpit”. The “Scorpion” was produced in an Israeli-Georgian joint venture with the Tbilisi Aircraft Manufacturing (TAM) factory that produced the original SU-25. This joint venture project would suggest that the Israelis have a number of the modified SU-25KM planes that could be deployed in a false-flag operation.





ESSENTIAL EVIDENCE - Ukrainian SU-25 Fighter Detected in Close Approach to MH17
Video Link - youtu.be/pEvX1CYdwXE

(http://youtu.be/pEvX1CYdwXE)


http://bollyn.com/public/MH17_and_SU-25.png
The Russians have radar evidence that a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter approached the Malaysia Airlines plane before it disappeared from the radar screen. The real question is who was flying the fighter(s) that appeared to be Ukrainian planes? Did they shoot down MH17?



http://bollyn.com/public/scorpion-2.jpg

The Israeli-modified SU-25KM is produced by Elbit of Israel and TAM, the original maker of the SU-25



http://bollyn.com/public/scorpion-6.jpg

The Elbit logo can be seen on the side of this plane. Was a plane like this involved in the downing of MH17?


If the plane was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet at 33,000 feet and the anti-Kiev rebels have been wrongly blamed then it would be a simple false-flag operation. If, however, this was a false-flag operation in which the plane was shot down by a third-party, by Israelis for example, then we would have what I call a false-flag with a twist.



The Israelis would have several motives to shoot down MH17. Firstly, they may want to punish Malaysia for having set up the Kuala Lampur War Crimes Commission, which found the state of Israel guilty of genocide of the Palestinian people in November 2013. Secondly, they may be seeking to punish Holland for the fact that the largest pension fund in The Netherlands decided earlier this year to withdraw all its investments from Israel’s five largest banks because they have branches in the West Bank and are involved in financing the construction of illegal Jewish settlements on occupied territory.



There are some who might find this line of reasoning to be unfair to Israel, “the Jewish state” and “America’s best friend in the region.” To them, I would simply say: You do not understand the true nature of the Zionist beast. Israel operates like a gangster state that uses murder and intimidation to force nations to submit to its will. The Israelis would think that the downing of MH17 should be considered a message to the governments of Malaysia and The Netherlands and that other nations would be wise to take note of what happens to countries that challenge Israel.



If Israel were a person it would be a psychopathic serial killer on the loose. The psychopath who is a serial killer might appear to be a nice, intelligent, and civilized person – but that is only how he appears. When no one is looking he murders people in cold blood and gets away with it, time after time. The fundamental problem with his worldview is that he believes that he is superior to other people and that their lives are worth nothing. This is exactly how the Jewish supremacists who rule Israel view non-Jews. This is what is taught in Jewish yeshivas where the anti-Christian Talmud is the doctrine and source of all knowledge.



The Zionist state of Israel engages in wars of aggression and commits genocidal war crimes and massacres in plain sight and gets away with it, time after time, decade after decade. Anyone who has studied the history of Zionism and followed the actions of the state of Israel over the decades knows this very well. The historical record is quite clear: the Zionist state was created by terrorism and deception and that is how it operates to this day. Israel's latest aggression against Gaza in which family homes, schools, hospitals, and mosques have been targeted shows that the Zionist state uses terrorism on a daily basis and has absolutely no respect for the lives of non-Jews.



Zionists have exploited “the Holocaust” myth to gain political power. Using "the Holocaust" as their shield, the Zionists have forced the international community to give Israel a free pass for its flagrant crimes. As a result, Israel has a permanent "Get Out of Jail" card. The failure to hold Israel accountable for its many egregious crimes, however, has facilitated the creation of a Frankenstein state that has now turned on those who fostered it. The so-called “Jewish state” has become a monster that commits atrocities in full view of the world – with impunity. Individual states and leaders are now afraid to criticize Israel because they don’t want to endanger their positions – or their nations.



In looking as the possibility of Israeli involvement in the downing of MH17 let’s start with the first question that should be asked about any such atrocity: Do any of the given explanations make sense?



It is quite obvious that it makes no sense whatsoever for the pro-Russian rebels to intentionally shoot down a Malaysian passenger plane. Furthermore, it doesn’t make any sense for the Ukrainians to shoot down the plane either. It is hard to believe that a Ukrainian military pilot would knowingly shoot down a passenger plane and commit an act of mass murder, especially with the awareness that their actions would be seen by radar on the ground in Russia and by satellites above them.



So, who might have shot MH17 down? To answer this question we need to ask another: Who benefits from the atrocity? While it is quite clear that the United States and the western allies are trying to put the blame on the pro-Russia rebels, and by extension on Russia and Vladimir Putin, simply blaming the rebels and Russia without providing any evidence to prove their case suggests that they have no proof.



The anti-Russia faction in the United States and Europe is clearly trying to smear Russia and Putin with the blame. This faction is led by the Zionist Neo-Cons in the Obama administration, people like Victoria Nuland (Kagan), the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State who managed the violent putsch in Kiev in February. It should be noted that Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the person Nuland chose to be prime minister of the unelected government in Ukraine, abruptly resigned on July 24, 2014, one week after the downing of MH17. Was the shooting down of the airliner a bridge too far for Yatsenyuk? It certainly would appear so.



The anti-Russia faction in Washington is the Zionist war agenda gang that dominates the Obama administration, the governments of Britain, Canada, and the European member states of NATO. The supposed leaders of these nations are really just Zionist “administrators” serving the masters who put them in power. This is why these weak national “leaders” speak in unison to defend Israel’s genocidal aggression against Gaza – as Israel’s right to self-defense – while condemning Russia and applying sanctions for offenses it has not even committed. This is the group, completely controlled by Zionists, which clearly seeks to advance its agenda of war and conquest from the MH17 atrocity.



While we cannot say with certainty that Israel was involved in the downing of MH17, we can say that it had both the motive and the capability to do so, which is more than we can say for the pro-Russian rebels who have neither the motive nor the capability but who have been wrongly blamed by the Zionist faction for the crime.



Sources and Recommended Reading:



“America the Target: 9-11 and Israel's History of False Flag Terrorism” by Christopher Bollyn, Solving 9-11, January 14, 2008
http://www.bollyn.com/america-the-target-9-11-and-the-history-of-false-flag-terrorism (http://bollyn.com/america-the-target-9-11-and-the-history-of-false-flag-terrorism)
“Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air Missile” by Eric Zuesse, GlobalResearch.ca, August 4, 2014
http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814)
Ihor Kolomoyskyi, Wikipedia, August 9, 2014
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi)
“Largest Dutch pension fund boycotts Israeli banks over settlement ties” by Barak Ravid, Ha’aretz, January 8, 2014
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567548 (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.567548)
“MH17 Brought Down by Air-to-Air Missile, Finished Off by 30-mm Cannon, Experts Allege,” RIANovosti, August 6, 2014
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140806/191783761/MH17-Brought-Down-by-Air-to-Air-Missile-Finished-Off-by-30-mm.html (http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140806/191783761/MH17-Brought-Down-by-Air-to-Air-Missile-Finished-Off-by-30-mm.html)
"Su-25KM Scorpion," YouTube.com, November 17, 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAszf4XPTFo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAszf4XPTFo)
“The Hallmarks of Zionist Atrocities: 9/11, Gaza, and Other Crimes” by Christopher Bollyn, August 6, 2014
http://www.bollyn.com/the-hallmarks-of-zionist-atrocities-911-gaza-and-other-crimes/ (http://bollyn.com/the-hallmarks-of-zionist-atrocities-911-gaza-and-other-crimes/)
“Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash – Moscow,” (Important video of Russian radar findings) RT.com, July 21, 2014
http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/ (http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/)
“Upgraded Su-25KM Proposed by Elbit, TAM,” Defense-Update.com, August 9, 2014
http://defense-update.com/news/su25KM.htm (http://defense-update.com/news/su25KM.htm)


http://bollyn.com/14832/

[Glass]

not much new stuff posted on this topic these days. This was linked on WhatReallyHappened today but the link was to LiveLeak and they pulled it for breach of terms.

From News-Front. Not much new Except much more footage of the victims bodies..... If they were in fact killed on that flight or from some other event. There was significant smell of something like formaldehyde reported by some witnesses to the scene. It might be chemicals from the aircraft, such as the rest room, that they are smelling. Who can tell and we probably won't ever know for sure on that.

Video Doco. - This has subtitles. Not in english. Except for a very small portion near the beginning.

http://news-front.info/2015/09/23/21-american-style-provocation-boeing-777-flight-mh-17/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4JCm7gq6eA

[JohnQPublic]

Flight # 17





I was thinking flight 370

[Horn]

I get a strange feeling that I've been reincarnated and on a new flight whenever reading my old posts, scares me somehow.

[JohnQPublic]

Yikes. The Pope is flying in an American Airlines 777.

[Dogman]

Yikes. The Pope is flying in an American Airlines 777.

Wonder how much lift power a single angel can generate?

And how much angel power is needed for a 777?

Tho most airlines fly between 25 to 40 thousand angels in altitude!

;D

Sent from my Nexus 7