another colloidal silver thread.

[pioneer]

trying to reduce this argument to its basic chemistry discussion has skid and steyr swinging from the chandeliers.

look people.
we have the basic 3 states of matter...solid, liquid, gas. ( this is not a discussion about silver in gaseous state.)

dissolving silver in acid produces liquid silver in its ionic state. dissolved silver is not a silver solid any longer. silver ions have NO SURFACE AREA.

silver ions when they hit the hydrochloric acid of the human stomach instantly and i do mean INSTANTLY convert to an indigestible salt, called silver chloride. ionic silver overconsumption is the cause of argyria.

the body processes silver chloride as a toxin and excretes it primarily through the kidney/urine waste system.

When SOLID silver is micronized--silver is reduced by outside mechanical forces being brought to bear upon the solid state of silver in order to reduce particle size-- THAT metallic silver nano-particle, aka colloid, is not seen by the body as toxic compound. there is NO reaction between solid silver nanoparticles and stomach's hydrochloric acid.

quite the contrary.

the body circulates this micronized, solid product throughout the bloodstream where it will perform its
anti viral
anti fungal
anti bacterial functions with great benefit to the host organism, US!

metallic, nano-particle, colloidal silver has surface area. solid, metallic surface comes in contact with the viral, fungal, or bacterial invader.

silver metallic, colloid particles are slowly eliminated from the body, still in their recognizable, analytical, original metallic form. silver colloids can be discovered and traced in blood serum using ISE instrumentation as they move throughout the body from ingestion to final elimination as a solid. all day long, any day of the week, and twice on sundays.

it is considered generally accepted truth that not one ionic silver manufacturer has been able to step forward and provide proof of their ionic silver circulating in the blood serum. not historically. not ever.

silver ions in the bloodstream have a reported half-life of 7.8 seconds, due to the blood serum levels of chloride at 3900ppm which is always coursing through our veins thanks to our digestive juice factory in our stomach lining.

so, i repeat what i said yesterday which had gsus'er swinging from the chandeliers.

ions are not solids
colloids are solids
therefore, ions are not colloids.

here's a non-exhaustive list of silver ionic products to avoid:
http://silver-colloids.com/Reports/ionic-products.html

[skid]

After reading similar articles I have come to the same conclusion. I'm not exactly swinging from the chandeliers though.

I do wonder how actual colloidal silver is made. There doesn't seem to be any detailed information regarding that. It also seems that there may also be some (few?) colloidal particles in the ionic solutions that are made via the low voltage DC electrolysis process. This is also verified by the site you have linked above. Can you explain how that may occur?

Cheers

[pioneer]

yes. silver oxidizes. therefore, infintisimally small flakes of tarnish slough off, totally uncontrolled and unknowable. however when scientifically measured, they bear little if any resemblance to the PPM listed
in the printed instructions.

[Serpo]

http://www.thesilveredge.com/

[pioneer]

sorry, that's just another, mislabeled, ionic silver solution maker, only with a mysterious rectangular box on top of that quart jar, to which 2 silver wires are attached. makes folks feel better to believe in a electronic box instead of the traditional 3 - 9v hookups, two alligator clips and 2 silver wires, shown by well-meaning tutorials by others all over the internet.

this pictured unit is not a colloidal silver micronizer.

it is just a fancier looking ionic silver maker, yes the kind that over consumption of liquid results leads to argyria, and stresses the kidneys trying to get rid of the instantly created, silver chloride salt within 7.8sec of swallowing it, and entering the hydrochloric acid producing stomach--the first step to entering the bloodstream.

if you take that some of that resulting "magic box" solution and place drops of it into jigger full of swimming pool acid labeled 28% muriatic acid (a weaker form of standard 38% hydrochloric acid) you'll immediately get the insoluable silver chloride precipitated salt as warned about in my initial post up on top. the silver chloride ppt looks like tiny, fluffy cottage cheese curds as it drifts down to the bottom of that jigger sized test, and just sits there, as an indissolvable curd of silver chloride, which is NOT metallic silver.

there is no surface area in an ionic silver preparation. only micronized, nano-sized metallic silver solids can be called colloidal silver. this is NOT it. sorry.

i'm glad his wife still has her toes, but...ionic silver solution didn't do this for her, something else obviously brought about the recovery he's claiming. the mind is a powerful thing.

now i'm just repeating myself and that is annoying.

[jaybone]

I make and use "ionic" silver all the time and I do agree that Ag plus Cl makes an insoluble salt, but electrolytically prepared silver solution is not all ionic, if it were it would not scatter light because an ion has no surface area. My silver definitely scatters a laser, so there are some particles in there, so there may be some active silver that makes it to the bloodstream.
I have bought the pricey true nanosilver and think it is excellent,but unaffordable for me.

[palani]

I prefer to just expose water to .999 silver ingots. I know from chem labs that distilled water delivered through aluminum pipe will always show the presence of aluminum. I expect some silver molecules to be found in the silver exposed water but certainly not in the ppm range. Using homeopathic concepts ... perhaps it is the frequency of the silver that is being transferred to the water rather than the silver itself.

[Serpo]

I prefer to just expose water to .999 silver ingots. I know from chem labs that distilled water delivered through aluminum pipe will always show the presence of aluminum. I expect some silver molecules to be found in the silver exposed water but certainly not in the ppm range. Using homeopathic concepts ... perhaps it is the frequency of the silver that is being transferred to the water rather than the silver itself.

Read yesterday about that ,it takes months and its still very low.

Also an old indian guy would boil gold in water to offer to sick people.

Boiling speeds things up perhaps.

[palani]

Boiling speeds things up perhaps.

I expose mine to the constant magnetism of a 3850 gauss ceramic magnet. Others (who don't add the silver ... just make magnetic water) would surround the water with magnetite sands for a week.

[pioneer]

I have bought the pricey true nanosilver and think it is excellent,but unaffordable for me.

your response nutshells it. it all comes down to cost vs benefit.

what is my life worth?
how much nano-silver do i need?
how many times a day?
with food, or without food?
when do i need to start taking it?
how young is too young to start consuming it?
is this another item i need to stockpile?
how long do i need to take it to potentially head off ebola? mrsa? flesh eating faciitis? west nile?
how do i even know if i've been exposed to ebola?
how do i know if colloidal silver consumption is working or not?

then after nailing down those details, one is faced with perspective as in are all the answers to all the above different depending upon whether or not i am talking about:
just myself?
or one of our/all of my children?
a grandchild?
my neices and nephews?
my mother/wife/etc.,
in calculting the cost v. benefit analysis.

this lack of actual:
"you know you are sick when...
"take this much
"for this long and
"receive this benefit
"for this cost...."
is exactly what furthers non-efficacious paralysis from analysis and incomplete data.

and that very lack of specificity is what gives rise to purveyors of knock-off silver ionic solutions masquerading as colloidal silver solutions, etc., and claims of magnetism, or osmosis or whatever the cure of the day is supposed to be for the disease under discussion.

it is a depressing, downard spiraling cycle that sucks.

constant bombardment-- with chosing between lesser evils 24/7/365, ALL options less than informed choices-- are guaranteed to ramp stress, and suck more life more quickly out of the host "organism."

[Neuro]

I make and use "ionic" silver all the time and I do agree that Ag plus Cl makes an insoluble salt, but electrolytically prepared silver solution is not all ionic, if it were it would not scatter light because an ion has no surface area. My silver definitely scatters a laser, so there are some particles in there, so there may be some active silver that makes it to the bloodstream.
Good point ions wouldn't be seen on a laser and it can't be that silver salt flakes are created in electrolysed distilled water...

[Neuro]

if you take that some of that resulting "magic box" solution and place drops of it into jigger full of swimming pool acid labeled 28% muriatic acid (a weaker form of standard 38% hydrochloric acid) you'll immediately get the insoluable silver chloride precipitated salt as warned about in my initial post up on top. the silver chloride ppt looks like tiny, fluffy cottage cheese curds as it drifts down to the bottom of that jigger sized test, and just sits there, as an indissolvable curd of silver chloride, which is NOT metallic silver.
Maybe my chemistry is off here, but wouldn't solid metallicsilver desolve in HCl of sufficient strength anyway, and the smaller the particles the quicker it becomes ionic?

[pioneer]

Maybe my chemistry is off here, but wouldn't solid metallicsilver desolve in HCl of sufficient strength anyway, and the smaller the particles the quicker it becomes ionic?

your chemistry is "off." metallic silver does NOT dissolve in HCl of any baume' (strength).


Source: CRC Handbook of Physics and Chemistry, 95th Edition, William M Haynes, editor; pg 4-101; solubility, in grams per 100c: s- HNO3, h- H2SO4, KCN. (s=soluble; h=hot)
http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Handbook-Chemistry-Physics-95th/dp/1482208679/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407420587&sr=1-1&keywords=crc+handbook+of+chemistry+and+physics

CRC is the bible in chemistry, organic or inorganic, at least in the "English speaking world."

[hoarder]

I won't argue the chemistry. I've used a CS generator consisting of three 9 volt batteries for about 8 years and in that time have consumed about 10 gallons of approximately 20 PPM and my face is not blue yet. In this time I have had cold symptoms 3 times and never for more than 2 days.

[pioneer]

I won't argue the chemistry. I've used a CS generator consisting of three 9 volt batteries for about 8 years and in that time have consumed about 10 gallons of approximately 20 PPM and my face is not blue yet. In this time I have had cold symptoms 3 times and never for more than 2 days.

well, you have been duped. you are not making colloidal silver and you've been participating, ignorantly in a fraud, and guilty of perpatrating the fraud by teaching others that you are making "colloidal silver" with your 3 batteries and your silver wire set up.

as far as your avowal of not turning blue in your face? you need to say "YET"...because that's exactly where you are headed.

ionic silver converted to silver chloride --whether inside the lab or inside the body-- is extremely light sensitive, yes even in blood serum as the medium containing the silver chloride build up, and being constantly filtered by the kidneys who are trying to expell it.

in the lab, silver chloride almost immediately purples up until it reaches extremely dark purple coloration if left exposed long enough, almost to a black as midnight in the laboratory if ANY light reaches it. the familiar 'red' light wave length such as is used in a photographer's darkroom who does their own film developer processes, is the exception to the light makes it purple rule. surely you are familiar with the phenom of developing film, yes, in the days before digital cameras were the 'new normal?'

while i don't know if you remember the segment with the blue man (who is now dead) on Oprah here a few years back before she retired from cbs tv time slot, if you do remember that interview, he turned suddenly blue over a period of several days. furthermore, it was his whole body which blued up, not just "his face" as you apparently are checking the mirror for and haven't observed.........YET. he obviously reached HIS tipping point. do you know where YOUR irreversible tipping point is?

the blue man with diagnosed argyria guest told Oprah on live TV, a tale similar to yours. i happened to be watching that day. he told O. he "felt fine."

in the following YT clip, he tells Matt Lauer that he started out by drinking it. then he started several years later, started applying it on his face, topically. it is obvious his face is bluer than his arms and hands, also visible in this film clip.

HE IS DEAD NOW. 11mo or so, now.
here's what you have to look forward to looking like on the Matt Lauer segment.
http://youtu.be/qpP-0okXm4o

truth is, he overwhelmed his kidneys and couldn't expell all the silver chloride he was creating within 7.8 seconds (according to ISE studies) of consuming each swallow/gulp/glass/quart/gallon of IONIC SILVER he was making at home, just like you. i don't know if the build up killed him or not, as that was still under investigation the last i followed up on his story.

he has not had any heavy metal testing done since he turned blue. go figure.

so, just because you are doing some 9-v battery+silver wire process someone else showed how to do, and THEY called it a CS generator, does not mean that is a colloidal silver creator. nope, colloidal silver is NOT what you are consuming. the science is against you, and you've been properly informed now.

go ahead, consume more gallons of your ionic silver converted immediately to insoluable silver chloride internally, at your own risk going forward.

oh, and stay out of the sun--LOL

re: Dr. Snyderman echoing his calling it "colloidal silver" and then putting it into the same category as placing a silver item into contact with something that bacterial growth was of a concern (4000 years ago)...it is really damaging to her credibility to call ionic silver generating by this man "colloidal silver."

they are as different as night and day. he's DEAD proof of it.

[Neuro]

your chemistry is "off." metallic silver does NOT dissolve in HCl of any baume' (strength).


http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Handbook-Chemistry-Physics-95th/dp/1482208679/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1407420587&sr=1-1&keywords=crc+handbook+of+chemistry+and+physics

CRC is the bible in chemistry, organic or inorganic, at least in the "English speaking world."
Thanks for the correction. So there is silver ions in electrolysis, but there must be metallic silver also, otherwise you wouldn't see the laser beam in the water, no? Argyria seems very rare, I have only seen one guy with it, the blue guy you referenced above... It was said he made his silver water by adding salts to speed up the electrolytic process. It should be way more common as I think quite a lot of people do colloidal/ionic silver with electrolysis. Maybe only a very small insignificant portion ends up as ions and the rest as colloidal nano silver?

[pioneer]

Thanks for the correction. So there is silver ions in electrolysis, but there must be metallic silver also, otherwise you wouldn't see the laser beam in the water, no? Argyria seems very rare, I have only seen one guy with it, the blue guy you referenced above... It was said he made his silver water by adding salts to speed up the electrolytic process. It should be way more common as I think quite a lot of people do colloidal/ionic silver with electrolysis. Maybe only a very small insignificant portion ends up as ions and the rest as colloidal nano silver?

silver oxidation sloughing off due to exposure to ambient air will provide whatever colloids may happen to be present, but certainly not higher than 1ppm when rigorous testing has been applied. so the question becomes, is 1ppm in ionic silver solutions a) "enough" do do all the wondrous healing attributed to their presence, b) or is the kidney and liver damage worth it?

frankly, i've wondered if he started whizzing blue before turning blue?

as far as you never seeing another one does not mean they don't exist. it just means a) oprah didn't interview them, nor b) matt lauer and nancy snyderman didn't grab a photo op.

then there is your rhetorical inquiry re: backscattered laser reporting. who the hell knows? not enough detail to determine what kind of water, what vessel, what purity of silver, cleanliness of hands handling the various components. hell, the dog may have come in from the outside soppin' wet and shaken itself mightily for all we can determine based on the paucity of verifiable detail provided in that anecdotal report. that's the problem with anecdotal reporting...no science, just storyline. bleh.

[Santa]

Pioneer, do you have any actual personal experience making or using colloidal silver?

Are you asserting that the "Oprah Show" has more validity or credibility than anecdotal evidence of thousands of actual makers and users, some of who are members here?

[hoarder]

Jewish big pharma doesn't want us using CS so they trot out retouched images of "Blue Man" who used salt in his CS process as a scare tactic and to sow confusion.
CS has worked well for me and I have consumed huge quantities of it over the years and will continue to do so.

[Santa]

silver oxidation sloughing off due to exposure to ambient air will provide whatever colloids may happen to be present, but certainly not higher than 1ppm when rigorous testing has been applied. .

Silver doesn't oxidize. It tarnishes. It's my understanding that the blackening of the surface on silver is a reaction between sulfur in the atmosphere and trace iron and other metals in the silver wire or bullion coin.

[pioneer]

silver DOES oxidize. you are misinformed, Santa.

yes, i have actual experience in micronizing metallic silver. please expand my list of credits to micronizing metallic gold, and several more. do you wish i continue to list my proficiencies in this area, or can we contain our pearls before swine to the topic at hand, colloidal silver?

i speak both from scientific and commercial production experiences.

you?

by all means, please continue to consume ionic silver in whatever amounts you indicate an eager willingness to do so. it IS to the detriment of your own health, as well. pay now or pay later. consumption doesn't mean you aren't paying the piper internally especially.

it is amazing to me that on a forum which claims probably more silver bugs than any other forum on the net with the exception of david morgan's faithful followers, the readership and participants on this forum are so woefully ignorant of the physical properties and applications of their coveted metallic silver.

of course i'm not claiming oprah has more validity than any other anecdotal speaker. that is argumentative and a patently absurd position to take. i reject your infantile, biased posit.

i was merely pointing out a resource where posters here could go look, and see just "how blue" a person can get, and hear from the DEAD, blue man's own lips prior to his demise how he turned blue, and what he was doing both internally and externally by using what he was mislabeling as colloidal silver. i heard very clearly him describe about making "it" at home for years and years.

colloidal silver can't be made at home by the ordinary consumer, hence its higher retail cost basis to the consumer.

if you recall, he spoke to the fact he was started out using his mislabeled concoction by trying it internally, as in drinking it ( injestion ) because he heard someone claim it improved their dermatitis. he stated he was suffering from a dermatological condition on his own face, as the motivation to try it.

it didn't help with his dermatitis by his own admission. so for that reason, he started applying his homemade solution topically to his face, said solution which would be still in its ionic form and not devolved into its insoluable chloride form.

he never spoke to rubbing pure silver wire nor ingots nor american eagles nor canadian maple leaf coins or medallions onto his face, and other exterior body parts.

interesting details revealed in the posted matt lauer interview which those staunchly defending this mislabeled, fraudulently perpetuated ionic processes are selectively ignoring. they continue to reap personal consequences--both now and later--by doing so.

isn't personal choice grand?

[Horn]

I have a buddy here who ionizes his water full time and he is too full of energy, becomes annoying. :)

Maybe for some a steady regiment of oxidizing tarnish is fine, for me it seems more beneficial to wax on and wax off to a polish.

Vitamins and most all other supplements just work better and I receive more out of them from intermittent use. A steady regiment just equals a death dulling for whatever it is taken.

6644


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk0V_GGa2XM

[pioneer]

I have a buddy here who ionizes his water full time and he is too full of energy, becomes annoying. :)

oh brother. you didn't just post that. classic horn muddying technique. LOL

ionized water is just about as far from ionized silver as human baby is from Dolly, the cloned sheep.

thanks for the laugh. that was a thigh slapper.

[pioneer]

hoarder, your anecdote brings up a good point.

if you (and others who claim no harm) have a baseline kidney and liver evaluation data set against which to measure function and enzymes, etc., prior to embarking upon your proud boastful consumption of harmful ionic silver converted instantly to insoluable silver chloride internally, then please, by all means, FOLLOW UP and get regular testings in order to self-monitor. it's only money.

or is it?

Diminish and harm as you choose. at least you won't be doing it as ignorantly as before.

without substantive testing, there is are no standardized comparative basis to up the obvious anecdotes of ionic silver consumption. health sciences are still sciences. without baseline studies, there is no science to back up yours and others anecdotes.

i will not walk your plank.

if you don't have a baseline study, then get a current one. if you have deteriorating from this point forward, at least you and others will have a basis for measuring future liver and kidney damage in particular, from your boastful consumption of ionic silver.

[Horn]

Live long and prosper, pioneer.

Sorry for annoying the clear water :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4-eKvv3EM

[Neuro]

silver oxidation sloughing off due to exposure to ambient air will provide whatever colloids may happen to be present, but certainly not higher than 1ppm when rigorous testing has been applied. so the question becomes, is 1ppm in ionic silver solutions a) "enough" do do all the wondrous healing attributed to their presence, b) or is the kidney and liver damage worth it?

frankly, i've wondered if he started whizzing blue before turning blue?

as far as you never seeing another one does not mean they don't exist. it just means a) oprah didn't interview them, nor b) matt lauer and nancy snyderman didn't grab a photo op.

then there is your rhetorical inquiry re: backscattered laser reporting. who the hell knows? not enough detail to determine what kind of water, what vessel, what purity of silver, cleanliness of hands handling the various components. hell, the dog may have come in from the outside soppin' wet and shaken itself mightily for all we can determine based on the paucity of verifiable detail provided in that anecdotal report. that's the problem with anecdotal reporting...no science, just storyline. bleh.
Ok I have electrolysed silver a few times. The water is distilled, it doesn't exhibit any laser opacity prior to electrolysis, not much after an hour either. My hands are clean, and I don't dip them in the water, the glass is clean, no dogs shaking off. After a couple of hours EVERY time I've done the electrolysis the water starts becoming more opaque to the laser beam, and it takes 3-4 hours to get it done. The silver wires is .999 at least according to the manufacturer.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that electrolysed silver with distilled water causes Argyria or liver/kidney damage? You only have the blue guy at Oprah don't you? You say he died, do you have any evidence to suggest that he died from liver/kidney failure? For all we know he could have crossed the street, someone driving started laughing uncontrollably, due to seeing grandfather Smurf swerved over to opposite lane, where a driver had to steer away to avoid a crash and hit the blue guy. Or maybe he isn't dead?

Please tell us, champion of non-anecdotal evidence, what science tells of kidney and liver-related mortality and morbidity rate due to consumption of electrolysed silver? How common is Argyria? Please quote controlled trials...

Almost all warnings from allopathic medicine re the dangers of alternative medicin/methods is from fabrications, anecdotal evidence and fraudulent controlled studies. Often times anecdotal evidence from someone you know and trust, like hoarder, should trump the recommendation of a medical/pharm panel who channels it's advice through media, policy makers and medical doctors. But really in the end you can't trust anyone, you just have to find what rings truest to yourself, place your bets and go along with it, and try to be as informed re reality as possible.

[hoarder]

Back a thousand years ago, people would place a silver coin in their milk jug because they knew from experience that it would keep longer. They even put chunks of silver in their water supply when they went on war campaigns.

They never heard of "nanoparticles" either.

[Horn]

For all we know he could have crossed the street, someone driving started laughing uncontrollably, due to seeing grandfather Smurf swerved over to opposite lane, where a driver had to steer away to avoid a crash and hit the blue guy. Or maybe he isn't dead?

Something tells me if you start turning blue its a sign. As far as the liver goes I'm not sure if anyone knows how it works.

Alls I know is not to use those Rislone products in your cars intake at full strength, especially in older models.

[pioneer]

after having reviewed much of your earlier posting history--which mostly was unremarkable--you appear to be a practitioner of the chiropractic arts and residing in turkey, is that correct?

you didn't speak to the testing determination as to the fineness of the silver you were handling. and clean is a "relative" term, as you well know. my grandson has one definition, my dentist has a different standard. a surgeon has a third definition.

normally i have respect for those who spend the extra years studying the nutrition which allopathic largely ignores, but in your case....i have private reservations.

i've already beat you down twice with science based responses in the last 24hrs, starting with your false belief and public posted statements that hydrochloric acid dissolves silver. LOL LOL LOL.

now you are wanting me to provide you with case studies of argyria? you jealous because horn's post made me laugh, and you want some jollies of your own?

oh, and while you're at it, how about conducting the liver enzymes and kidney function tests on your clients who are "consuming gallons of ionic silver turned insoluable silver chloride" at your behest in your practice. THAT should be interesting.

you've already amply demonstrated you don't believe what i'm posting, which means you have a dog in this hunt, a professional recommendation ionic silver mislabeled as colloidal silver, economic interest "dog" i suspect.

tell you what.

go find serpo's post yesterday where was copy pasted damn near the entire website of the researcher-scientist, self-proclaimed authority on silver (ionic, protein and colloidal) serpo linked. maybe you'll get better results from taunting him in your demand for his case notes on argyria.

maybe he hasn't seen oprah? that would be a plus, right?

need his email addy?

double - dog dare you to pull these threads' bs on him. go ahead and parade even more "inorganic chemistry" ignorance for him to respond to. he just might not be as nice as i am. LOL

[pioneer]

Back a thousand years ago, people would place a silver coin in their milk jug because they knew from experience that it would keep longer. They even put chunks of silver in their water supply when they went on war campaigns.

They never heard of "nanoparticles" either.

your point?

i already spoke to and validated the METALLIC SILVER CONTACT with fungi, viral, and bacterial pathogens.

ions are not "nanoparticles." you're mixed up in your definitions.

just go get the blood work done and report back, hoarder. you'll sleep better having that done and a basis in fact from which to work going forward, yes?

[Horn]

pioneer, do you use any ionizing water filtration products?

[pioneer]

As far as the liver goes I'm not sure if anyone knows how it works.

indeed. however, the recent strides in selective use of external dialysis units for cirrhotic liver patients, combined with the push into 3-D liver printing has opened reams of windows into this elegant vital organ and its functions.

what a workhorse!

[pioneer]

pioneer, do you use any ionizing water filtration products?

absolutely. can't conduct some protocols without deionized water.

[Horn]

absolutely.

I know this guy! lol

[Neuro]

after having reviewed much of your earlier posting history--which mostly was unremarkable--you appear to be a practitioner of the chiropractic arts and residing in turkey, is that correct?

you didn't speak to the testing determination as to the fineness of the silver you were handling. and clean is a "relative" term, as you well know. my grandson has one definition, my dentist has a different standard.

normally i have respect for those who spend the extra years studying the nutrition which allopathic ignores, but in your case, i considering making an exception.

i've already beat you down twice with science based responses in the last 24hrs, starting with your false belief and public posted statements that hydrochloric acid dissolves silver. LOL LOL LOL.

now you are wanting me to provide you with case studies of argyria? you jealous because horn's post made me laugh, and you want some jollies of your own?

oh, and while you're at it, how about conducting the liver enzymes and kidney function tests on your clients who are "consuming gallons of ionic silver turned insoluable silver chloride" at your behest in your practice. THAT should be interesting.

you've already amply demonstrated you don't believe what i'm posting, which means you have a dog in this hunt, a professional recommendation ionic silver mislabeled as colloidal silver, economic interest "dog" i suspect.

tell you what.

go find serpo's post yesterday where was copy pasted damn near the entire website of the researcher-scientist, self-proclaimed authority on silver, ionic, protein and colloidal serpo linked. maybe you'll get better results from him in your demand for his case notes on argyria.

maybe he hasn't seen oprah? that would be a plus, right?

need his email addy?

double - dog dare you to pull these threads' bs on him. go ahead and parade even more "inorganic chemistry" ignorance for him to respond to. he just might not be as nice as i am. LOL
Hey I thanked you twice for informing me about HCl not corroding metallic silver. I thought it was possible, so I expressed doubts even when I posted it. Sorry a Master of Science degree in Chiropractic doesn't include inorganic chemistry, I only have what I was taught in High School 30 years ago, and they didn't teach me if HCl desolves silver there. My speciality isn't nutrition either, I am dealing with the biomechanical functioning of the body. And until today including today I haven't recommended a single patient of mine to consume any silver product. I don't believe in recommending things outside of my expertise. And people seem to have enough biomechanical problems to keep me busy, certainly I am aware of some chiropractors recommending their patients nutritional products, acupuncture, homeopathy, but really that isn't chiropractic.

I don't have anything in this apart from my natural curiosity. I certainly haven't consumed much electrolysed silver (not even a liter) to create any damage, if it does so. I put some in the wine I made last year instead of Sulphur Oxide.

You seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder, why is that?

[Horn]

absolutely. can't conduct some protocols without deionized water.

Maybe is why you are so intent on silver colloidal use, if you've used it in combination with your ionized clear water regiment, you've probably had some sort of over-arching energy effect?

[Neuro]

Something tells me if you start turning blue its a sign. As far as the liver goes I'm not sure if anyone knows how it works.

Alls I know is not to use those Rislone products in your cars intake at full strength, especially in older models.
Sure turning blue is Argyria, from what I heard though at the time he didn't use distilled water electrolysing silver, certainly I think it is likely that he may have injured his kidneys or liver doing that. But we don't know that or to what extent. Or how common it is among consumers of electrolysed silver. Pioneer says it does, but he attacks anyone who questions him, without providing any evidence, not even anecdotal evidence.

[pioneer]

pioneer attacks? yeah, in your wet, ionic silver dreams. LOL

my biased recall has been a deliberate, committed effort to politely meet all comers, and initially anyway, respond to all pointed requests for information. my effort to provide substantiated, peer reviewed, documented science has been derided. so be it.

doesn't change my avowals. and being immoveable in my responses hardly qualifies me as commiting an attack. LOL

horn, trying to set me up, once again you've stepped in it... LOL

what I said to you was, various protocols i conduct require use of DEIONIZED water...as in water that is scientifically void of ions of any kind in the water, so that no testing results are skewed due to their ionic presence.

at no time have i admitted drinking ionized, deionized, chloridated, fluoridated, fumigated, irrigated or just plain municipal tap water. LOL

please refer to your basic dictionary chart for prefixes under the letter "D" where you will surely find de- prefix for removal of ions in water used in various protocols.

i provide scientific proof. you just don't like it because you can't successfully challenge it NOR duplicate it, just attack it because your personal knowledge isn't first-hand. LOL

but if I ever do have an issue with carpal tunnel, doc.....

tell you what, chiro. why not file a FOIA request of the FDA and request all THEIR documentation re: argyria. will THAT suit you?

what I object strenuously to is being taunted into doing someone else's DD for them because they are too whatever to do it for themselves. especially people who are already on attack and argumentative in the first place.

doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

drinking gallons of ionic silver which immediately converts to insoluable silver chloride in the human stomach and what might squeak through there, turns into toxic silver chloride in the blood serum, is my Exhibit A in insanity.

the problem i've observed over the short time i've been here is that this is a chatroom, and facts are not welcome.

tough.

[Neuro]

tell you what, chiro. why not file a FOIA request of the FDA and request all THEIR documentation re: argyria. will THAT suit you?
Did you do that since it is in your sphere of professional expertise? Would FDA even honor a request like that from a non-American person?

The fact is that we are all amateurs re colloidal/ionized silver, apart from you, and that is the reason why I ask you these questions. You have opened my eyes to the fact that electrolysed silver is to a large part ionized silver, not colloidal as I first thought. Further it is likely that a large part of this ionized silver becomes silver salts as it reacts with the hydrochloride acid in the stomach. Which may be dangerous... However wouldn't it go back to its ionic form as pH is raised post stomach? Most salts are in dissolved ionic form in solution? Are metallic nano silver even absorbed through the intestinal lining? How? Ionic silver would be transported through with an ionic pump out of protein in the membrane, but how would a silver particle get through?

If some of these questions appear incredibly ignorant from your standpoint, please accept my apology, as I don't have extensive training in inorganic chemistry, instead try to explain it to like an idiot.

[Horn]

drinking gallons of ionic silver which immediately converts to insoluable silver chloride in the human stomach and what might squeak through there, turns into toxic silver chloride in the blood serum, is my Exhibit A in insanity.

the problem i've observed over the short time i've been here is that this is a chatroom, and facts are not welcome.

tough.

As Swedes eat caustic fish, or Indians eat peyote.

Fact is a poison dose can be quite beneficial, and facts are always welcome.

You're becoming too defensive and that's not good for your health, imo.

[pioneer]

You're becoming too defensive and that's not good for your health, imo.

oh, that's rich, horn. can't refute the science, so level negative assignations at the scientist.

double bogey for you, again, horn, after i refuted your claim that i was drinking ionized water because i stated again --this is the 3rd time-- that i use DE-ionized water in prescribed protocols. LOL

[pioneer]

Did you do that since it is in your sphere of professional expertise? Would FDA even honor a request like that from a non-American person?

The fact is that we are all amateurs re colloidal/ionized silver, apart from you, and that is the reason why I ask you these questions. You have opened my eyes to the fact that electrolysed silver is to a large part ionized silver, not colloidal as I first thought. Further it is likely that a large part of this ionized silver becomes silver salts as it reacts with the hydrochloride acid in the stomach. Which may be dangerous... However wouldn't it go back to its ionic form as pH is raised post stomach?


no, it doesn't go back to its ionic form. have you considered consulting the CRC 95th edition I steered you to several posts back, for what it takes to dissolve silver chloride?

you might start there.

oh, and ps...we're not all amateurs here. i'm just the only inorganic personality who has stepped out of the shadows SO FAR, thus becoming the target of taunts and jabs.

[Neuro]

no, it doesn't go back to its ionic form. have you considered consulting the CRC 95th edition I steered you to several posts back, for what it takes to dissolve silver chloride?

you might start there.
Amazon doesn't deliver it to Sweden in 2 days, and probably after the end of this discussion I won't have much use for it over the rest of my life. But thanks for telling me even though in condescending ways...

[Neuro]

Btw how does metallic nano-silver get through stomach lining to the blood stream?

[Neuro]

oh, and ps...we're not all amateurs here. i'm just the only inorganic personality who has stepped out of the shadows SO FAR, thus becoming the target of taunts and jabs.
Really, who else is an inorganic chemist at these forums? Taunts and jabs? I am just asking you to give the evidence you have that electrolysed silver gives liver and kidney damage as you claim, so far you have refused... Btw undissolved salt crystals wouldn't get through intestinal lining either...

[Horn]

oh, that's rich, horn. can't refute the science, so level negative assignations at the scientist.

I'm not refuting your science.

What I am refuting is the misnomer of "poison" (or more benign and diluted substitutes) having possible beneficial effects at dosage, and also the assertion that people are drinking gallons of irreversible and damaging colloidal.

[pioneer]

Ok I have electrolysed silver a few times. The water is distilled, it doesn't exhibit any laser opacity prior to electrolysis, not much after an hour either. My hands are clean, and I don't dip them in the water, the glass is clean, no dogs shaking off. After a couple of hours EVERY time I've done the electrolysis the water starts becoming more opaque to the laser beam, and it takes 3-4 hours to get it done. The silver wires is .999 at least according to the manufacturer.

here's your 3rd beatdown neuro.

Here's the official speak re: yours and others' observations of "backscatter of their ionic silver solutions" and the subsequent error conclusions that this cloudiness is proof of the presence of colloidal silver.


Light scattering based methods (Dynamic Light Scattering, Nanoparticle Tracking Analysis) in which size is calculated based upon the scattering of light by particles. DLS is widely used to assess the actual hydrodynamic size and nanoparticles' behaviour (agglomeration, dissolution) in medium.

DLS provides also data on nanoparticles size distribtion and polydispersity index.

DLS suits spherical, not too small particles, best. (YOU STILL AWAKE NEURO?---LOL 'cause i'm getting to the important part)---However, it may be difficult or even impossible to analyse heterogeneous mixtures or polydisperse samples, or nanoparticles in the pesent of other nanosized entities such as protein clusters.

let's stop there before your heads of readers splits wide open, deal?

do you remember reading what serpo typed up about the 3 forms of silver that his independently quoted other expert wrote up. do you remember him discussing formulation of "silver proteins?"

now, do you understand why laser backscatter isn't the most reliable observational tool nor executed protocol to support the "anecdotal reports" of whip me up some home brew silver colloids using my 3 - 9v batteries, 2 silver wires, 4 alligator clips and a container of distilled, cloudy water" anecdotal sharings?

[pioneer]

....in condescending ways...

that's rich.

as far as other inorganic chemists on the forum...you know what they say, "birds of a feather..." and that other one: "a man is known..."

they're here, you can take that to the bank.

[pioneer]

I'm not refuting your science.

What I am refuting is the misnomer of "poison" (or more benign and diluted substitutes) having possible beneficial effects at dosage, and also the assertion that people are drinking gallons of irreversible and damaging colloidal.

only in horn's world would the words, "toxic" and "poison" be spun to only have positive definitions. LOL

[Horn]

what I said to you was, various protocols i conduct require use of DEIONIZED water...

It should be noted that was after an editing by youz...

Not to worry pioneer i like you, aftervichenall vee havven other more sensitive poizonus topics with vich to deciphevren jur eckspartizen the guud to manenkind.

[pioneer]

It should be noted that was after an editing by youz...

Not to worry pioneer i like you, aftervichenall vee havven other more sensitive poizonus topics with vich to deciphevren jur eckspartizen the guud to manenkind.

and you are full of bullcheit, horn. i did no such editing! what i've customarily found is those who accuse others of "editing" are guilty of much such behavior themselves.

you asked me if i used ionized products and i said yes. i didn't say what, when, where nor why. i also said i used deionized products in the laboratory setting because many protocols call for them to be performed in deionized water.

nice try. NO CIGAR for you, either.

[Neuro]

I wonder why you insist on calling my gaining of knowledge in inorganic chemistry beatdowns? Anyway you don't seem to gain too much of what I am saying. You don't get a gigantic (at the cellular level, even if it is nano to the rest of us) metallic particle nor a undissolved salt crystal through the intestinal membrane much at all. Proteins are only absorbed if they are divided into its amino acid constituents, fats are divided by bile, carbohydrates, and then you have ions that are selectively pumped across the membrane. Colloidal and ionic silver may help against throat infections (if bacterial) by gargling, it may help against topical infections if applied on the skin. It may help preventing fermentation, mould and bacterial infestations of foods. But you won't get it into the bloodstream unless you inject it. The main benefit vs ionic silver would be that colloidal silver may have a benefit in intestinal infections.

None of them would have any systemic effect as they don't go into the bloodstream...

Really, thanks for making me think this through!

[pioneer]

in keeping with me not doing your research for you, horn, i will give you this hint.

there is a well known cluster of argyria cases, 70 in fact which you can research to your hearts content. here's the title to that cluster to aid you in doing your own research.

in simplist terms it is referred to as the Gaud and Staud study.


Gaul LE, Staud AH. Clinical spectroscopy. Seventy cases of generalized argyrosis following organic and colloidal silver medication. JAMA. 1935;104:1387-1390.

since you didn't specify whether recent or antiquities, i'll let you sort out the scientific advances in differential diagnoses which have occurred since 1935 JAMA pub cited.

now i'm 5 out of 5 in your scientific thrown gauntlet challenges, neuro.

give it up. i'm done proving myself to you.

[pioneer]

...

Really, thanks for making me think this through!

well, you ALMOST got that right, neuro. you're not through thinking, yet, that be a fact. LOL

next you'll be telling me that absorbed and dissolved are the same scientific phenom. aw, hell, let's throw a chunk of ADsorbed into the mix, and make this REALLY interesting.

NOT

[Horn]

you asked me if i used ionized products and i said yes. i didn't say what, when, where nor why.

Unt nOw U avven Vun (1) blaaack marken against you for Deception.

The question was not for use of "ionized products", but for 'ionizing water filtration products". and within the given context of the thread assumptions clear.

Unt now that you are back peddling avey from possible beneficial aspects when consuming often hazardous or poisonous materials at dosage, without even taking into account the human's body vessel differences to a test tube in the lab.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2684334336/hF7F79E2F/

[Neuro]

Gaul LE, Staud AH. Clinical spectroscopy. Seventy cases of generalized argyrosis following organic and colloidal silver medication. JAMA. 1935;104:1387-1390.


Did they inject the silver colloidals back in 1935?

[Horn]

Man who turned blue after taking silver for skin condition diesPaul Karason, 62, died days after suffering a heart attack, contracting pneumonia and having a severe heatstroke. Karason became famous in 2008 after an appearance on the 'Today' show, where he revealed the color change came courtesy of using silver to self-medicate a health condition.

A heavy smoker, his heart often troubled him and he underwent triple bypass surgery five years ago.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-turned-blue-silver-dies-article-1.1466905

[Horn]

Papa Smurf Runs For Senate

<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms2xX5yEWaE

http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2002/10/03/image524282x.jpg


Steve

Here's my standard response.

I think it answers most of your questions.Don't stop what you're doing. Colloidal silver has been so completely researched that we know it is very safe.

Many people don't see any difference in my skin. This news blast started because a reporter who saw me in a debate in Great Falls, Montana interviewed me and published a story with a doctored photo (made my face decidedly blue).

The associated press picked the story up and put it all on the Internet.To answer your questions:

1) I use a generator with three nine-volt batteries connected in series (27 volts D.C.);

2) I started taking colloidal silver in Seattle where the tap water is generally free from minerals. I added a few drops of salt water to improve the conductivity. When I moved to Montana 1998, I continued to use tap water but here it is full of minerals. I never had it tested.

3) I made my solution in an eight ounce paper cup, conducting the current for one hour. I then added one half of this solution to two gallons of drinking water that I kept in my refrigerator. I have no idea what the PPM of this solution was.

4) I drank my water over the entire day , but mostly in the evening after work. I have no idea how much I drank during any day.

5) I never filtered the solution.

6) People began to tell me my complexion was getting "pale" or "green" or "blue." I never noticed the difference in my mirror every day. I did notice that under my finger nails was turning blue -- like a lack of oxygen. That's probably the first sign. No other part of my body shows any indications.I hope this is helpful. I know that I am an unusual case -- only the second or third case to be reported. If you are as careful as you indicate, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Stay healthy. You are with millions of other Americans that take silver. Here's a good web site to visit www.silver100.com.Best (http://www.silver100.com.Best) wishesYours for good health and freedomStan Jones, Libertarian Candidate for the U.S. Senate

http://www.csfacts.com/pages/jones.html

[Neuro]

well, you ALMOST got that right, neuro. you're not through thinking, yet, that be a fact. LOL

next you'll be telling me that absorbed and dissolved are the same scientific phenom. aw, hell, let's throw a chunk of ADsorbed into the mix, and make this REALLY interesting.

NOT
Do you have any evidence that ingesting silver colloidals show up in the bloodstream, by a blood test?

[pioneer]

I make and use "ionic" silver all the time and I do agree that Ag plus Cl makes an insoluble salt, but electrolytically prepared silver solution is not all ionic, if it were it would not scatter light because an ion has no surface area. My silver definitely scatters a laser, so there are some particles in there, so there may be some active silver that makes it to the bloodstream.
I have bought the pricey true nanosilver and think it is excellent, but unaffordable for me.
highlighting is mine above, jaybone. hopefully you read the scientific explanation as to what other phenom backscatter light in your ionic silver solution mislabeled as "colloidal." it would be in the quotation speaking to clustered proteins in silver ionic solution.

[pioneer]

Do you have any evidence that ingesting silver colloidals show up in the bloodstream, by a blood test?

blood serum has been successfully tested for and silver colloids located and traced throughout their "travels." go back and find the post yourself. it's there, altho' everything is now spread over at least 3 threads, or is it 12. it IS gs forum afterall. LOL LOL.

[Neuro]

blood serum has been successfully tested for and silver colloids located and traced throughout their "travels." go back and find the post yourself. it's there, altho' everything is now spread over at least 3 threads, or is it 12. it IS gs forum afterall. LOL LOL.
Couldn't find it, but I'll take your word for it. Have a good night!

[Santa]

A couple shots of highly dangerous, toxic alcohol... have somehow made this thread more enjoyable. Go figure. :)

[Tumbleweed]

I had ordered one the colloidal silver making machines Serpo posted a link to before pioneer started this thread. It's still at the post office and I havn't had time to go pick it up and sign for it. I've got 30 days to decide if I want to keep it.

Because of this thread I looked up what Dr. Joe Mercola's site had to say about CS and this is what I found.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx



New Guidelines for Safe Usage of Colloidal Silver

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http://media.mercola.com/ImageServer/public/2009/February/2.7silverpyramid.pngThe Silver Safety Committee (http://www.silversafety.org/) has announced its creation of the Silver Safety Pyramid, which is designed to enable anyone to easily determine safe usage levels of any dietary supplement containing silver, typically referred to as ionic silver or colloidal silver.
The Silver Safety Committee consists of doctors, chemistry professors and world leaders in health-freedom advocacy.
According to Herbert Slavin, M.D., director of the Institute of Advanced Medicine in Lauderhill, Florida, and a member of the Committee:
"This is an area where confusion and concern developed needlessly. Few things in life are as cut-and-dried as the fact that silver is completely safe when used within normal limits. The U.S. government provides a very clear guideline for the safe oral intake of silver. We've simply provided an easy method for applying that guideline to the safe use of any silver supplement product."

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has a guideline called the Reference Dose (RfD) for safe limits on daily intake of silver. The EPA's RfD guideline is specifically intended to keep a person's intake of silver below the level that could possibly discolor the skin.
Says Jeffrey Blumer, M.D., Ph.D., director of the Center for Drug Research, the world's largest clinical research center for pediatric drugs, and former director of the Greater Cleveland Poison Control Center:
"Common substances like table salt and aspirin are harmless with normal use, but excessive intake can become toxic and even life-threatening. With normal responsible usage, silver supplements are entirely harmless to humans."

The Silver Safety Pyramid is based on the Committee's Silver Safety Guideline, which recommends that a person's intake of silver from dietary supplements be limited to 25 percent of the EPA's recommended limit for total daily intake of silver.
It utilizes the Silver Safety Calculation, a simple mathematical formula that enables a person to easily determine how much to take of any silver-containing product to remain within the safety guidelines.
The EPA RfD guideline is expressed in terms of micrograms of silver. Virtually all silver supplements, on the other hand, are labeled in terms of parts per million (ppm), which is the concentration of silver in the water, not micrograms. With the Silver Safety Calculation, you just plug in your pounds of body weight and the ppm of silver in whatever silver supplement you're using, and it calculates the appropriate limits for you.
The Silver Safety Calculation is simple enough: 12 times pounds divided by ppm equals drops per day.
The Silver Safety Pyramid provides guidelines for determining safe usage limits from three perspectives:


Daily use
Short-term use
Entire lifetime


"This is useful information for everyone interested in using silver for health," Dr. Baird added. "If people follow these guidelines, they can use silver supplements while remaining fully confident they are not exposing themselves to any risks whatsoever."

The Committee's website includes the Silver Safety Auto-Calculator, which automatically performs the math in the Silver Safety Pyramid for you. The site also has an Education & FAQ section, which helps clarify the meanings of terms like ppm, ionic silver, colloidal silver, and more.
The website is http://www.silversafety.org (http://www.silversafety.org/).



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There are several types of silver products on the market. Some are healthy alternatives to antibiotics while others can be downright dangerous to your health.

Three Types of 'Colloidal' Silver – The Good, the Bad, the Ugly

According to a Commercial Product Report by Silver-Colloids.com,1 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn1) a site that provides detailed laboratory analyses of colloidal silver products, there are three distinctly different types of silver products on the market that are all labeled and sold as "colloidal" silver:


Ionic silver
Silver protein
True colloidal silver2 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn2)

This misrepresentation of colloidal silver by less scrupulous manufacturers has no doubt led to some of the more negative connotations to colloidal silver. When purchasing colloidal silver, it's very important to make sure you're getting true colloidal silver, because, as you will see, the other two varieties of silver may do far more harm than good.
Since there are health risks involved if you select the wrong formula, I recommend you use colloidal silver only under the guidance and supervision of a qualified alternative health practitioner, who can help you select a high-quality product.
Ionic silver solutions – Silver solutions are typically clear like water or have a slight yellow tint. The producers of ionic silver solutions will tell you that colloidal silver should look like clear water, but this is incorrect, so don't be fooled. The term colloidal means particles, not ions.
To determine whether a solution is ionic silver, add regular table salt (sodium chloride) to it. If silver ions are present, then the chloride ions will combine with the silver ions and create a white, cloudy appearance. For more detailed instructions on how to do this, please see the Silver Colloids website (http://www.silver-colloids.com/Reports/reports.html).
Ionic silver is not entirely without merit, but since ionic silver products contain such a low percentage of silver particles, these products will not be as effective as true colloidal silver, which has a much greater particle surface area3 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn3) relative to the total silver content.
Ionic silver is still a strong anti-microbial, and can be effectively used in situations where chloride is NOT present. When chloride is present – such as inside your body – then what little silver particle is present in the solution will survive to produce benefit, but again, not nearly as effectively as a true colloidal solution.
Please be aware that most all "colloidal silver" generators sold for home use produce ionic silver solutions, and not true colloidal silver.
Potential Danger – Low. If you take ionic silver products according to the manufacturer's recommended dosage, ionic silver will not cause argyria, a condition that causes your skin to turn blue-gray.
Silver protein – Silver protein products are the second most prevalent type of so-called colloidal silver products on the market. These products are a combination of metallic silver particles and a protein binder to keep the particles in suspension. One tip-off that it's a silver protein product is if it claims to have high concentrations of colloidal silver (typically in the range of 30 to 20,000 ppm).
Of the three types of colloidal silver, silver protein products have the lowest particle surface area for a given silver concentration, making the silver inaccessible for safe and effective absorption by your body. Because of this, you want to avoid all silver protein products.
To find out whether you have a silver protein product rather than a true silver colloid, look for these characteristics:


Foaming: When shaken, a silver protein product produces foam above the liquid that will persist for minutes after being shaken. This is probably the single most reliable indicator.
Concentration: Silver protein products tend to have very high concentration values, typically in the range of 30 to 20,000 ppm.
Color: The color ranges from light amber to almost black with an increasing concentration of silver.

Potential Danger – High. Due to the high concentration of large silver particles, silver protein products are known to causeargyria (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/12/meet-the-man-with-blue-skin.aspx), which turns your skin blue-gray color.
True colloidal silver – True colloidal silver products are the least prevalent type of colloidal silver on the market due to the high cost of production. In true colloidal silver, the majority of the silver content is in the form of silver particles. True colloids will typically contain between 50 and 80 percent particles, while the balance will be silver ions.
Because of the high concentration of silver particles, true silver colloids are never clear like water. True colloidal silver with a sufficient concentration of particles does not look like water because silver particles – even very small particles – block light from passing through, making the liquid appear darker.
Potential Danger – None. Due to the very low concentration of ionic silver and small particle size, true silver colloids do notcause argyria.

What Is Colloidal Silver Useful For?

Colloidal silver has been known as a remarkably effective natural antibiotic for centuries. But in past several decades, research has shown colloidal silver can even eradicate antibiotic-resistant microbes like MRSA,4 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn4) the Avian Influenza (bird flu), and Human Corona virus (SARS).
In the mid-1970s, Dr. Robert O. Becker at Syracuse Medical University began his groundbreaking research into colloidal silver. He later concluded:
"What we have done was rediscover the fact that silver kills bacteria, a fact which had actually been known for centuries… All of the organisms we tested were sensitive to the electrically generated silver ion, including some that were resistant to all known antibiotics… In no case were any undesirable side effects of the silver treatment apparent."

However, silver's innate anti-microbial effect was actually common knowledge among doctors some 60 years before Becker's time. In fact, in the early 1900s, Alfred Searle, founder of the global Searle Pharmaceutical Company, had already discovered that silver in its liquid colloidal form could kill even the most deadly of pathogens. In his book Colloids in Biology and Medicine, 1919, Searle wrote:
"Applying colloidal silver to human subjects has been done in a large number of cases with astonishingly successful results… it has the advantage of being rapidly fatal to microbes without toxic action on its host. It is quite stable. It protects rabbits from ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin."

Unlike prescription antibiotic drugs, silver does not create resistance or immunity in pathogens killed by it.

Recent Research Espousing the Virtues of Colloidal Silver

Over the past few years, several new studies have demonstrated the fact that silver is one of the most effective agents in the battle against MRSA and other deadly antibiotic-resistant super pathogens, including the:


Brigham-Young Clinical Study – This study, published in the journal Current Science in 2006,5 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn5) found that a number of the antibiotic drugs which had previously been able to kill MDR (multiple drug-resistant) pathogens, such as MRSA, could be restored to full efficacy against the deadly pathogens, but only if a liquid silver solution similar to colloidal silver was used in conjunction with the drug.
Iranian Clinical Study – This study6 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn6) also found that silver increases the effectiveness of antibiotic drugs against staph infections. The researchers concluded:"The antibacterial activities of penicillin G, amoxicillin, erythromycin, clindamycin, and vancomycin were increased in the presence of silver nano-particles (Ag-NPs) against both test strains. The highest enhancing effects were observed for vancomycin, amoxicillin, and penicillin G against S. aureus."
Taiwanese Clinical Study – Published in the journal Colloids Surface B Biointerfaces7 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn7) in 2007, this study demonstrated that colloidal silver, by itself, eradicates both MRSA and Pseudomonas aeruginosa, another deadly and extremely opportunistic superbug.
Czech Clinical Study – Likewise, this Czech study published in the prestigious Journal of Physical Chemistry B8 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx#_edn8) in 2006, also demonstrated that colloidal silver was a highly effective agent against MRSA:"…silver particles with a narrow size distribution with an average size of 25 nm, which showed high antimicrobial and bactericidal activity against Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, including highly multi-resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). The study further demonstrated that very low concentrations of silver could be utilized to destroy MRSA, as long as the silver particles were very small, averaging 25 nm."

[Serpo]

http://www.invive.com/truth.html (http://www.invive.com/truth.html)


http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nikitanaturals.com%2Ffiles%2F All%2520you%2520need%2520to%2520know%2520about%252 0Colloidal%2520Silver.pdf&ei=sKXlU771M43d8AWvlYC4CQ&usg=AFQjCNE31E09tvWWEf8qfFLTAwWJHqn-3Q&bvm=bv.72676100,d.dGc


http://www.thesilveredge.com/sources.shtml#.U-WoQWNFuwE

Ive read a lot of conflicting reports the last few days about cs.

Some say the ionic has been proven to work.

I did read somewhere that because when making the cs ,as the silver starts forming in the water ,it starts conducting better and it needs to be turned down the voltage,they made one like this.

The electro cs sounds like it works on a large number of pathogens and that there are other better quality types made by experts with silver particles.

So its best to have the higher quality one just in case (ebola) and use the other type for general ailments.

[Tumbleweed]

The guy in this video says you can make real colloidal silver out of ionic silver. I'm wondering about this and if you can



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LufmchbPpNg

[Horn]

What i wonder about is if the silver wire that was used to make is now made in china and is only 50% silver and the other 50% disolves in water?

[Tumbleweed]

Here's another interview of this guy answering questions and explaining how things work. I'm no chemist so I just have to listen and wonder about all the pros and cons that are out there.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T75QBPjplBY

[vacuum]

Thanks Tumbleweed, for providing the only information in this thread on how to actually make colloidal silver.


The guy in this video says you can make real colloidal silver out of ionic silver. I'm wondering about this and if you can



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LufmchbPpNg



Here's another interview of this guy answering questions and explaining how things work. I'm no chemist so I just have to listen and wonder about all the pros and cons that are out there.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T75QBPjplBY

[Cebu_4_2]

I thought colloidal only comes from plants that can absorb the silver. That is what colloidal is right?

[Horn]

All water in silver colloidal should be fresh or exposed to Mozart firstly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaEH__2xv4M

[Tumbleweed]

Thanks Tumbleweed, for providing the only information in this thread on how to actually make colloidal silver.

There's also quite a bit of information in the comment sections with these videos.

[pioneer]

Thanks Tumbleweed, for providing the only information in this thread on how to actually make colloidal silver.

are you SURE about that, vacuum? LOL LOL


General Colloidal Production Techniques

1. Dissolution
2. Mechanical (my favorite and already stated as being so)
3. Electrical and Thermal
4. Oxidation-reduction
5. Double decomposition
6. Simple precipitation


with the videos generously posted by tumbleweed, can you, vacuum or anyone else a) specifically identify just which process beinki was using? and b ) just what the "reducing agent" powder was so that card carrying silver SHTF preppers don't have to buy it from beinki--that is if you chose to go his route with no more solid science backing your hunch or experiment based upon the demonstration in what was demo'd in that YT? and c ) provide any proof that metallic silver particles were the end result of said experiment, let alone quantity or size of "colloidal" results?

what I saw was the yellowing hue of an ionic exchange taking place, in beinki's demo's second stage. this yellowing is a very very common observation in the lab.

not holding my breath here, but I thought i'd just put this out there for all you breathing deeply because you think you've finally "nailed it" and achieved actual metallic silver solids to attach to pathogens via osmosis, of any type and "kill it or them" by drinking whatever it is you are ending up with; doing so without concerns for toxic heavy metal tissue contamination and the resulting liver and kidney burden those organs were not designed to perform?

by george, i think i just got it....ionic silver drinkers are trying desperately to use their own bodies to create SILVER CHLORIDE kidney stones for the express purpose of passing them and then converting them after they've passed through their human waste system.

better add those little nylon fabric sieves to the prepper item lists for seining out the AgCl stones from the urine. blue sieves for boys, pink sieves for the ladies.

now WHY didn't i think of that earlier???

[Tumbleweed]

Pioneer~ Why don't you just lay it out here exactly how to make colloidal silver? Do you know how? If you know how will you share that knowledge with people here?

[Dogman]

Good thought!

Its one thing is being a cat playing with the mouses!


Pray tell the mouse how to catch a cat!

Can mortal people make it,with out jumping through hoops?

The gods know this forum has a bunch/enough that like to play and tantalize but never explain the how to do what they claim, so others can follow their path!

[skid]

Pioneer~ Why don't you just lay it out here exactly how to make colloidal silver? Do you know how? If you know how will you share that knowledge with people here?

Yeah let's hear it. (crickets...)

[Neuro]

Just found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771750/
The authors of this very extensive research on Silver ion and nano particle pharmaco-kinetics, didn't see any major danger with consumption of Ionic silver within reason, consume up to 1-3 mg/day (depending on your body weight) for 70 years, and you won't reach the lowest recorded threshold for Argyria, no other health concerns have been found. So even if you get Argyria, you are not at risk for any other complications or organ damages, according to this well researched report...

[pioneer]

Just found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771750/
.... no other health concerns have been found. So even if you get Argyria, you are not at risk for any other complications or organ damages, according to this well researched report...

nice try, but no cigar, AGAIN.

sure isn't the same report I read. but then I understood most all of the nomenclature which probably made your eyes glaze over, neuro.

and then there is this pesky sentence in there which stated that silver deposits in female kidneys were excluded because nih report couldn't find a reason for it, so therefore they left it out.

say what?

all kinds of weasal words in that, mostly saying nothing about physiological anything, unless it was in a rat.

nice bibliography, but no substance basically in the text, just an explanation of where all they looked. just exclusion this, exclusion that, and guess what, we learned nut'ting, just like Hogan's Hero's Schultz "knows nut'thing." LOL

reminds me of hunting for easter eggs. since dozens many couldn't be found, evidently the mother didn't boil, color and hide them on easter sunday morning.

what amazed me as i read that is that heavy metal toxemia is a well-known, dibilitory disease. tons of research on this, yes? of course, one would have to find an "environmental doctor" to do a legit workup, and they don't grow on trees.

just had a friend die from heavy metal deposition in his tissues, in feb 2014. his was from manganese poisoning, absorbed through skin and lungs, from years of fabricating S/S restaurant kitchen equipment in the business he owned.

but we all know that silver ain't heavy.
we al lknow silver aint a metal.
we all know that doesn't get deposited in the internal organs, just the biggest external organ we have, our skin. opps...nih got that right, sorry, silver DOES get deposited in our dermis, and other organs.
lastly, we all know that only women have kidneys.

therefore, we must all conclude because the nih printed Swiss experts who said so, it must be okay to bear a toxic burden of ionic silver and the stress on the liver and kidneys to surround the insoluble (says right there in that nih report neuro, that silver salt is insoluable)...surround the metal with albumin to carry it around internally prior to waste disposal.

correct me if i'm wrong but i do believe divergent from norm albumin testing is always part of the annual physical. it's easy to test for. i've certainly seen albumin levels listed as something evaluated in my annual physicals.

again, anyone besides me have base level testing done, just as a matter of personal health monitoring? if you are convinced you don't have silver toxicity damage, then why shy away from the simple pee in a jar testing for one simple marker? oh, that's right, because there are more markers for heavy metal toxicity.
elevated liver enzymes is another troublesome indicator.

why not add ionic silver compounds to the barium and the alumina we're all breathing anyhow, right? what's another metal in our elegant systems?

spare me from the swiss and their much ado, concluded nothing, and "x'd out what they didn't understand" thereby considering it irrelevant.

keep digging, neuro. you've got another clue now.

[Horn]

Just found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771750/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3771750/bin/ijn-8-3365Fig4.jpg

Pretty telling chart there.

At low dosage silver receives the liver's stamp of approval in my estimation.

All is well, spray the world with a thin coat. If only tptb would comply, but they don't dig it.

[vacuum]

---------------------

[vacuum]

are you SURE about that, vacuum? LOL LOL


General Colloidal Production Techniques

1. Dissolution
2. Mechanical (my favorite and already stated as being so)
3. Electrical and Thermal
4. Oxidation-reduction
5. Double decomposition
6. Simple precipitation

with the videos generously posted by tumbleweed, can you, vacuum or anyone else a) specifically identify just which process beinki was using? and b ) just what the "reducing agent" powder was so that card carrying silver SHTF preppers don't have to buy it from beinki--that is if you chose to go his route with no more solid science backing your hunch or experiment based upon the demonstration in what was demo'd in that YT? and c ) provide any proof that metallic silver particles were the end result of said experiment, let alone quantity or size of "colloidal" results?

what I saw was the yellowing hue of an ionic exchange taking place, in beinki's demo's second stage. this yellowing is a very very common observation in the lab.

not holding my breath here, but I thought i'd just put this out there for all you breathing deeply because you think you've finally "nailed it" and achieved actual metallic silver solids to attach to pathogens via osmosis, of any type and "kill it or them" by drinking whatever it is you are ending up with; doing so without concerns for toxic heavy metal tissue contamination and the resulting liver and kidney burden those organs were not designed to perform?

a) It would be the oxidation/reduction method being used here. The silver ions have lost a single electron, and are Ag+ in the solution, which is an oxidation state of +1. This is because they have a single valence electron. In order to become neutral again to become a metallic colloid, there needs to be an electron donor added.

b) There are plenty of reducing agents that could be used. Likely, they're using ascorbic acid (vitamin C), because it's a good reducing agent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascorbic_acid#Antioxidant_mechanism I would try out ascorbic acid and see if it causes the same yellowing effect, which would be a good indication it's working. Neither dissolved ascorbic acid nor silver ions alone would cause a laser to show up, there would have to be a reaction between them to get that effect. I'd just need to do the molarity calculations to determine how much is needed to fully reduce the silver ions.

c) Here is a test report from the silver lungs website: http://www.silverlungs.com/sl_tem.png It shows the size of the particles, though not the quantity. They say on their web page here http://www.silverlungs.com/generator.html that it's 85 - 90% in colloid form. It does look a pretty deep yellow, and the citric acid should get rid of all the Ag+ ions in the solution, so those numbers seem reasonable.


Based on this, all you need to do is add some vitamin C and heat the solution to turn the ionic silver into colloidal silver. This assumes no silver oxide. It seems that to keep the silver oxide to a minimum, switching polarity back and forth and and not generating more than 20 ppm concentration is important.

Looks like he's got the recipe:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message894142/pg1#13836178

[vacuum]

Here's a very interesting comment from youtube:

You don't need the reducing agent if you use heat when you make it. I make my colloidal silver at just below boiling. I have a unit that shuts off automatically when the PPM has reached the chosen amount, which is set by a dial. At that point, I remove the electrodes and then spike the now very slightly yellow batch with about 1/2 ml of deep yellow colloidal silver from my previous batch, and stir. I leave it on the heat for 5 more minutes or so until it turns deep yellow. Works every time!

You only need to use reducing agent on your very first batch to give you the rich, deep yellow of a good, strong colloidal silver (I used just the tiniest dot of corn syrup on the end of a chop stick). After that, just use a touch of colloidal silver from the previous batch each time you make it, kind of like yogurt starter. Cheers!




It makes sense, the previous batch can act like a seed, and combined with the heat, cause the ions to become a colloid.

There is some great information on colloids here: http://www.wishgranted.com/Colloidal_Silver_Pages_What_CS_is.htm It's an online ebook.

Basically, the particles in a colloid each have a slight negative charge, which keeps them apart and suspended. The silver ions are all positively charged, so something interesting could be happening.

It would be an interesting experiment to try, after the colloid is created as I described in my previous post.

[Neuro]

nice try, but no cigar, AGAIN.

sure isn't the same report I read. but then I understood most all of the nomenclature which probably made your eyes glaze over, neuro.

and then there is this pesky sentence in there which stated that silver deposits in female kidneys were excluded because nih report couldn't find a reason for it, so therefore they left it out.

say what?

all kinds of weasal words in that, mostly saying nothing about physiological anything, unless it was in a rat.

nice bibliography, but no substance basically in the text, just an explanation of where all they looked. just exclusion this, exclusion that, and guess what, we learned nut'ting, just like Hogan's Hero's Schultz "knows nut'thing." LOL

reminds me of hunting for easter eggs. since dozens many couldn't be found, evidently the mother didn't boil, color and hide them on easter sunday morning.

what amazed me as i read that is that heavy metal toxemia is a well-known, dibilitory disease. tons of research on this, yes? of course, one would have to find an "environmental doctor" to do a legit workup, and they don't grow on trees.

just had a friend die from heavy metal deposition in his tissues, in feb 2014. his was from manganese poisoning, absorbed through skin and lungs, from years of fabricating S/S restaurant kitchen equipment in the business he owned.

but we all know that silver ain't heavy.
we al lknow silver aint a metal.
we all know that doesn't get deposited in the internal organs, just the biggest external organ we have, our skin. opps...nih got that right, sorry, silver DOES get deposited in our dermis, and other organs.
lastly, we all know that only women have kidneys.

therefore, we must all conclude because the nih printed Swiss experts who said so, it must be okay to bear a toxic burden of ionic silver and the stress on the liver and kidneys to surround the insoluble (says right there in that nih report neuro, that silver salt is insoluable)...surround the metal with albumin to carry it around internally prior to waste disposal.

correct me if i'm wrong but i do believe divergent from norm albumin testing is always part of the annual physical. it's easy to test for. i've certainly seen albumin levels listed as something evaluated in my annual physicals.

again, anyone besides me have base level testing done, just as a matter of personal health monitoring? if you are convinced you don't have silver toxicity damage, then why shy away from the simple pee in a jar testing for one simple marker? oh, that's right, because there are more markers for heavy metal toxicity.
elevated liver enzymes is another troublesome indicator.

why not add ionic silver compounds to the barium and the alumina we're all breathing anyhow, right? what's another metal in our elegant systems?

spare me from the swiss and their much ado, concluded nothing, and "x'd out what they didn't understand" thereby considering it irrelevant.

keep digging, neuro. you've got another clue now.
Keep digging for what? Evidence that support your claim silver is dangerous? Why don't you find that yourself? I don't have a dog in this. I don't even take silver regularly. I may apply it occasionally if I have an bacterial infection. I may use it as a food preservative. Sure anything may be toxic in large enough quantities, so far I haven't seen anything suggesting that ionic silver in small to moderate amounts has any risk, large quantities may give rise to Argyria, which appears to be harmless in itself. I suggest you present your evidence instead of continuing your baseless scaremongering.

[pioneer]

intriguing shift the responsibility type response, neuro. you're a doctor of chiropractic and you slept through heavy metal poisoning lectures in microbiology class?

i wish i could have "scared my friend" before he died, instead of learning from his widow who contacted me by phone 6 months after he passed as to his cause of death was heavy metal poisoning. it was an ugly death according to her. she's devastated, and widowed way too young.

you all want the easy answers and they are NOT out there. looks like common sense and logic aren't in plentiful supply on this topic of ionic metal or colloidal dosing of metals, either. yet, there are reams of posts on this forum about how bad mercury is in vaccines or dental amalgam, etc.

looks like common sense personal monitoring by liver enzymes nor urine tests
are logic responses results from those gold-silver forum users on here who are consuming insoluable silver salts "by the gallon" and blissfully thinking there is only good to come from continually 'channel stuffing dermis' by that practice with AgCl embedded in tissues.

sounds like most on here, you included are greatly relieved you won't turn blue. is that what the push back is? it's not an overt indicator of toxic excess to any thinking person on here?

just to point out the obvious, the charts horn posted from your link did not show that the liver wasn't effected, they simply defined LEVELS of liver's harm using three graduations of consumption. harm is still harm.

and none of you have bothered to determine how you know when you've reached
the magic 3mg level and then stopped consuming insoluable silver chloride.

in the lab rats, the scientist could tell. how do you ionic silver big gulpers know?

it's the old, if I cover my eyes and can't see you, then you don't exist bullshit games that children play. i thought we were grown men and ladies around here, seeking the truth and also capable of using logic to know when we've stumbled across gold and silver bs around here.

i guess we're all supposed to be grateful we aren't women with kidneys which were negatively impacted as specifically stated in your nih report neuro. oh , that's right, that wasn't considered significant, so female rats were eliminated from the trials, or did you miss that part?

good luck with that 'scientific validation' approach of 'something didn't fit so we eliminated it from our final report' approach. science my ass. nih screwed up and you found living color proof. so swig away neuro, swig away. and look away while your clients brag about gulping down ionic silver and call it something else which it isn't.

BTW, screw the conclusion that heat makes silver ionics convert to silver colloids and a machine knows when x number of parts per million have been created by. man, barnum was right!

by that last piece of logic, if one were to boil all the distilled water off, there should be solid silver pieces of nano-dust just laying in the bottom of the beaker, yes, because colloids are solid metallic silver spheres that are refractive and can be measured by red and green laser beams.

[pioneer]

a) It would be the oxidation/reduction method being used here. The silver ions have lost a single electron, and are Ag+ in the solution, which is an oxidation state of +1. This is because they have a single valence electron. In order to become neutral again to become a metallic colloid, there needs to be an electron donor added.

b) There are plenty of reducing agents that could be used. Likely, they're using ascorbic acid (vitamin C), because it's a good reducing agent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascorbic_acid#Antioxidant_mechanism I would try out ascorbic acid and see if it causes the same yellowing effect, which would be a good indication it's working. Neither dissolved ascorbic acid nor silver ions alone would cause a laser to show up, there would have to be a reaction between them to get that effect. I'd just need to do the molarity calculations to determine how much is needed to fully reduce the silver ions.

c) Here is a test report from the silver lungs website: http://www.silverlungs.com/sl_tem.png It shows the size of the particles, though not the quantity. They say on their web page here http://www.silverlungs.com/generator.html that it's 85 - 90% in colloid form. It does look a pretty deep yellow, and the citric acid should get rid of all the Ag+ ions in the solution, so those numbers seem reasonable.

Based on this, all you need to do is add some vitamin C and heat the solution to turn the ionic silver into colloidal silver. This assumes no silver oxide. It seems that to keep the silver oxide to a minimum, switching polarity back and forth and and not generating more than 20 ppm concentration is important.

Looks like he's got the recipe:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message894142/pg1#13836178

yeah, my first guess was that silver lung's using C6H8O6 in his second phase on tumbleweed's youtube. i ruled out paraformaldehyde crystals (for obvious reasons) when i enlarged the label on his little blue jar which clearly shows he's using a sugar in his demo, the word 'dextrin' is clearly visible on the label. ascorbic acid is aka a weak sugar acid. paraformaldehyde readily lends an electron in oxygen-reduction protocols.

again, remember that all yellowing means is that there is some ionic action going on. when the yellowing goes away, the ion exchange process is also completed. convenient little tell.

also, it should be mentioned that it is very poor lab practice to just dump in a solid precipitant into a solution. you all saw the same as i did that it agglomerated and wafted down through the solution still in clumpy form, hoping that the stirring action would eventually cause it to dissolve. that's bad form for any powdered addition.

it is also very poor lab practice to just scoop out an unweighed portion of "reducing agent" to begin with. believe it or not, kitchen marketed measuring devices such as the fractional teaspoon this beinki guy was visibly using are NOT standardized for volume. therefore, the addition is not a controlled, fixed amount addition, either.

it was fun to read the bs on the godlike productions forum link you shared. looks like the same discussion here, except i only read page 1 of that discussion. it's carried on for 4 more pages at least from what i could see as of this morning. LOL

only one person on that forum's page 1 referred to any testing, and he only wanted testing of the purity of the silver rods being used. didn't see anyone suggesting blood work baseline nor follow-ups. quite interesting.

and then there is that pesky silver oxide, which just a few posts back on THIS forum some dufus claimed silver didn't oxidize. LOL

carry on, vacuum, you're at least on the hunt. but vit c won't get you where you want to go if you want to swallow metallic silver in colloidal size.

[Santa]

Ok, Pioneer, you got me. I'm a dufus...I was wrong about oxidation.

My only personal experience with colloidal silver has been using the stuff from the health food store that comes in little bottles with an eye dropper. I've never cooked it at home, and don't drink it. Never have. One reason being, I don't see the point in killing the flora in my digestive tract. The other reason is that I've read a lot of contradictory information on the topic.

The fact is, it works great for nasal, eye and ear infections. That's my only claim. Though, I'm pretty sure it won't do your bloviated condescension a bit of good. Perhaps chemo or radical surgery. I don't know. That's something you're going to have to work out on your own.

[hoarder]

Ok, Pioneer, you got me. I'm a dufus...I was wrong about oxidation.

My only personal experience with colloidal silver has been using the stuff from the health food store that comes in little bottles with an eye dropper. I've never cooked it at home, and don't drink it. Never have. One reason being, I don't see the point in killing the flora in my digestive tract. The other reason is that I've read a lot of contradictory information on the topic.

The fact is, it works great for nasal, eye and ear infections. That's my only claim. Though, I'm pretty sure it won't do your bloviated condescension a bit of good. Perhaps chemo or radical surgery. I don't know. That's something you're going to have to work out on your own.Only megadoses of CS will kill off the flora in your digestive tract, such as when you get food poisoning and drink 8 to 12 ounces of CS all at once. In that case you would simply take probiotics afterwards. No big deal.
Most of the contradictory information comes from the big pharma zioneers who simply want to sow confusion and scare you back to big pharma "solutions".

In reality, silver does the same thing whether you put a coin in your milk, ionize or whatever, the only difference is concentration, dispersion and absorption. ANY form of CS, regardless of particle size, will kill single cell organisms. Don't worry so much about the details and don't add salt to the process like the "Blue Man".

In all these years and gallons I have never managed to take so much as to have noticable flora problems. I do keep probiotics in the fridge in case I ever do.

[Dogman]

Yogurt is another good one for keeping gut flora happy or to help restart the flora after a bad case of the runs. Whenever I have have a bad case, yogurt always seems to help cure/stop it.

[pioneer]

bloviated condescension? you don't say, santa. LOL looked in the mirror lately at your bloviated girth, "santa?" LOL LOL LOL

sure seems most users here don't enjoy being taught how to fish instead prefer being handed the sturgeon AND the extracted caviar. LOL

[mick silver]

why not just file off some silver off a bar and eat it

[pioneer]

why not just file off some silver off a bar and eat it

well, i can think of a few reasons. LOL

first one that came to mind was how many people on here admit to playing mad chemist. LOL

second one was how many people on here admit to playing with DC electricity gadgets. LOL

third one which tickled the gray matter is, metal filings scratches, all the way down and through and still doesn't get dissolved which is what is required to make it into the bloodstream, yes?

fourth reason also popped up, why not pound the shit out of a bar of silver like they do a bar of gold over there in India, and eat the 'leaf' product...which doesn't help your suggestion, but it would be easier to swallow.

at least you are thinking about correct weights to swallow. you get logic points for your reply, mick silver.

[Horn]

Ok, Pioneer, you got me. I'm a dufus..

You should feel better after eating the liver.

http://exduco.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/liver.jpg

[Santa]

you don't say, santa. LOL looked in the mirror lately at your bloviated girth, "santa?" LOL LOL LOL

sure seems most users here don't enjoy being taught how to fish instead prefer being handed the sturgeon AND the extracted caviar. LOL

Did you just recently lose your job or boyfriend or something? LOL LOL LOL

[Horn]

http://www.pathguy.com/lectures/ironover.gif

[Neuro]

intriguing shift the responsibility type response, neuro. you're a doctor of chiropractic and you slept through heavy metal poisoning lectures in microbiology class?

i wish i could have "scared my friend" before he died, instead of learning from his widow who contacted me by phone 6 months after he passed as to his cause of death was heavy metal poisoning. it was an ugly death according to her. she's devastated, and widowed way too young.

you all want the easy answers and they are NOT out there. looks like common sense and logic aren't in plentiful supply on this topic of ionic metal or colloidal dosing of metals, either. yet, there are reams of posts on this forum about how bad mercury is in vaccines or dental amalgam, etc.

looks like common sense personal monitoring by liver enzymes nor urine tests
are logic responses results from those gold-silver forum users on here who are consuming insoluable silver salts "by the gallon" and blissfully thinking there is only good to come from continually 'channel stuffing dermis' by that practice with AgCl embedded in tissues.

sounds like most on here, you included are greatly relieved you won't turn blue. is that what the push back is? it's not an overt indicator of toxic excess to any thinking person on here?

just to point out the obvious, the charts horn posted from your link did not show that the liver wasn't effected, they simply defined LEVELS of liver's harm using three graduations of consumption. harm is still harm.

and none of you have bothered to determine how you know when you've reached
the magic 3mg level and then stopped consuming insoluable silver chloride.

in the lab rats, the scientist could tell. how do you ionic silver big gulpers know?

it's the old, if I cover my eyes and can't see you, then you don't exist bullshit games that children play. i thought we were grown men and ladies around here, seeking the truth and also capable of using logic to know when we've stumbled across gold and silver bs around here.

i guess we're all supposed to be grateful we aren't women with kidneys which were negatively impacted as specifically stated in your nih report neuro. oh , that's right, that wasn't considered significant, so female rats were eliminated from the trials, or did you miss that part?

good luck with that 'scientific validation' approach of 'something didn't fit so we eliminated it from our final report' approach. science my ass. nih screwed up and you found living color proof. so swig away neuro, swig away. and look away while your clients brag about gulping down ionic silver and call it something else which it isn't.

BTW, screw the conclusion that heat makes silver ionics convert to silver colloids and a machine knows when x number of parts per million have been created by. man, barnum was right!

by that last piece of logic, if one were to boil all the distilled water off, there should be solid silver pieces of nano-dust just laying in the bottom of the beaker, yes, because colloids are solid metallic silver spheres that are refractive and can be measured by red and green laser beams.
Shifting of responsibility? You fucking made the claim that ionic silver is dangerous, then prove it. Your friend dying of heavy metal poisoning? Was it from consumption of Silver colloids? You are aware that the particular type of silver colloids you promote also contains silver ions? Just in smaller amounts than electrolysed silver. But I bet you have consumed way more silver ions than I have, you do take your own product regularly don't you? Female rats had what twice the accumulation of silver in their kidneys compared to male rats? So what? Even if the results are applicable to humans... There are still no reports of kidney damage in humans, female or male from oral consumption of colloidal/ionic silver. Heavy metal poisoning? Silver is not lead or depleted Uranium, those Silver ions becoming insoluble AgCl crystals in the stomach, they probably won't even be absorbed through the intestine they be expensive shit, but may have aided taking care of a throat infection on the way down to the stomach if bacterias were involved in the infection.

You don't have any evidence whatsoever that primarily ionic silver compounds, would be dangerous vs the product you are promoting, but I suspect that isn't going to stop you beating your drum.

[Horn]

Maybe the blue face paint was just symbolic, and William Wallace really suffered Argyria?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HhAaLBW9do

[pioneer]

the proof of heavy metal poisoning is well documented, reams and reams of documentation, case studies, anecdotes, a little something for everyone's cocktail conversation bullet points.

you want to argue that silver is not considered a heavy metal. and you just threw radiation into the argument? that's irrational as hell. you one of those Fukushima fear mongerers?

ionic silver chloride is toxic, insoluable, and harms liver and kidneys. you can rant all you want, but that is fact.

while you're doing your homework, "doc", brush up on your lectins and binding properties and activities of albumin which is what has to absorb the toxic silver chloride and then escort silver chloride through the human digestive system prior to disposal. yes, albumin. lectins. want me to spell those for you? LOL

never once have you addressed the logic in getting tested liver enzymes testing and urine testing, and you are in the healing business? biomechanical or whatever. hell, get a hair analysis done if it makes you feel better about swallowing toxic silver ions which convert to silver chloride in the stomach's acid. whether by the gulp or gallon.

it appears the only testing you are interested in is to "test" me.

typical, ignorant, shoot-the-messenger response, and YES, blame shifting, responsibility shifting, whatever you want to "label it." You have demonstrated quite loudly your personal need for me to be wrong. What if I'm not?

and some of you continue to wonder why I won't give type up and display to all comers 6 protocols for making colloidal silver, small batch or in commercial quantities.

i did like dogman's expression about teaching the mouse to catch the cat. that was a good one. LOL

squeek or is it meow? which sound am i supposed to make? LOL

tell me again, now...what product am I promoting?

metallic silver? oh, YEAH, I like me some metallic silver. yum yum. stack'em high and stack'em deep.

save me out one 1oz AE for the firkin of camel's milk i be a hauling around, pls.

[Neuro]

the proof of heavy metal poisoning is well documented, reams and reams of documentation, case studies, anecdotes, a little something for everyone's cocktail conversation bullet points.

Yes heavy metal poisoning is well documented, but all heavy metals are not equal
you want to argue that silver is not considered a heavy metal. and you just threw radiation into the argument? that's irrational as hell. you one of those Fukushima fear mongerers?
I mentioned depleted uranium, iow U238, which is toxic, but with a half life of 4 Billion years it has very low radioactivity, still very toxic chemically. Silver is a heavy metal, but apparently not very toxic, they are not the same, they are different elements in the periodic table and have different properties.

ionic silver chloride is toxic, insoluable, and harms liver and kidneys. you can rant all you want, but that is

Silver Chloride is not ionic it can't be unless it is in solution. I am sure Silver Chloride can harm liver and kidneys, but you haven't presented any evidence that it does so, by drinking Ionic Silver, it is still a good idea to be careful.

while you're doing your homework, "doc", brush up on your lectins and binding properties and activities of albumin which is what has to absorb the toxic silver chloride and then escort silver chloride through the human digestive system prior to disposal. yes, albumin. lectins. want me to spell those for you? LOL

You are clearly at a loss here, albumins and lectins are complex proteins that can't get through the gastro-intestinal tract lining, much less transport anything like Silver chloride crystals across the membrane. But you do find these in the blood. You only get simple amino-acids across the normally functioning intestine, short lipid chains, simple carbohydrates, and specifically pumped ions...

never once have you addressed the logic in getting tested liver enzymes testing and urine testing, and you are in the healing business? biomechanical or whatever. hell, get a hair analysis done if it makes you feel better about swallowing toxic silver ions which convert to silver chloride in the stomach's acid. whether by the gulp or gallon.

There are probably thousands of commonly used substances and foods that are magnitudes more important in raising liver enzymes, rather than ionic silver, how would you determine that it was silver causing it compared to, let's say eating a McD? Do you understand what biomechanical means. People don't come to me to investigate their chemistry. If I suspect anyone to have a chemical or organ problem I would suggest they go to a medical dr, a naturopath or a homeopath. If I ever feel bad about the half liter of ionic silver I have consumed in my life I'll go and have my hair tested...

it appears the only testing you are interested in is to "test" me.

Not really

typical, ignorant, shoot-the-messenger response, and YES, blame shifting, responsibility shifting, whatever you want to "label it." You have demonstrated quite loudly your personal need for me to be wrong. What if I'm not.

I am not shooting the messenger. I am just asking for evidence of your claims. You may be right, but you haven't presented anything supporting that. You corrected me earlier on some misconceptions I had about inorganic chemistry, I thanked you for that. See how that works? I don't care about being right. I care about the truth, to get to it you need to leave your ego out and the blockages it creates on your path.

and some of you continue to wonder why I won't give type up and display to all comers 6 protocols for making colloidal silver, small batch or in commercial quantities.

Very strange indeed...

i did like dogman's expression about teaching the mouse to catch the cat. that was a good one. LOL

squeek or is it meow? which sound am i supposed to make? LOL

You can just admit that you don't have any evidence to back up your claim...

So did your friend die of silver poisoning. Or what heavy metal was it? Lead? Mercury? Cadmium?

[skid]

Pioneer, do you have to be such an asshole?

[Dogman]

Outside the body can do good, inside the body maybe not so!

Sorta like if one is good then 100 would be fantastic!

[Dogman]

Pioneer, do you have to be such an asshole?

He reminds me of another old member from here or the other forum gim by posting style/responses/attitude!

For sure not not his first trip around our block.

Just a feeling!

[pioneer]

Pioneer, do you have to be such an asshole?

No.

[pioneer]

as i stated TWICE on this forum, my buddy died of MANGANESE POISONING from all his years of fabricating S/S kitchen equipment for commercial kitchens in a major metropolitan area, a business he owned for years. no one warned him. and it took them 4 years of going to ordinary doctors before he was finally sent to a qualified environmental MD, who immediately started him on chelation therapy.
it wasn't enough to save his life.

trust me, it sucks when someone you care about dies from toxic ingestion and inhalation of metals.

it was an ugly death.

you just proved you don't read entire posts, you only read enough until you see red and hit the reply button. that's pretty damned incriminating right there, neuro.

i suppose i have to prove he's really dead by posting his obituary, right? good luck with that tactic.

i've obviously gotten under your skin for some reason, and that's your problem. doesn't change the truth of your own lengthy quoted nih study.

liver damage in all 3 classes. check out horn's charts.

you want to stay safe and only consume 3mg of ionic silver, over what length of time you don't have a clue, and you have no idea when you have reached nor exceeded that threshold. but you thank god you're not a female rat who doesn't count because of her gender and it didn't fit the little square boxes of nih study.

what happened to "physician, heal thyself?"

[Dogman]

S/s is good stuff!

But it is nasty stuff to work with with! Spent close to a year in the mid to late 70's working on a kellog ammonia nitrate plant for China. Fitting and welding stainless pressure vessels. Abt 3 inch or better wall thickness.

Knew several welders that got poisoned by the welding fumes. Burnt many a rod and the smell sorta reminded me of butter.

Nasty to work with! But does makes nice rainbow welds as the welds in the metal cools, lots of straw to blue.

Sorry for your friend, can understand, fully!

Hell of a way to check out.

[Neuro]

as i stated TWICE on this forum, my buddy died of MANGANESE POISONING from all his years of fabricating S/S kitchen equipment for commercial kitchens in a major metropolitan area, a business he owned for years. no one warned him. and it took them 4 years of going to ordinary doctors before he was finally sent to a qualified environmental MD, who immediately started him on chelation therapy.
it wasn't enough to save his life.

trust me, it sucks when someone you care about dies from toxic ingestion and inhalation of metals.

it was an ugly death.

you just proved you don't read entire posts, you only read enough until you see red and hit the reply button. that's pretty damned incriminating right there, neuro.

i suppose i have to prove he's really dead by posting his obituary, right? good luck with that tactic.

i've obviously gotten under your skin for some reason, and that's your problem. doesn't change the truth of your own lengthy quoted nih study.

liver damage in all 3 classes. check out horn's charts.

you want to stay safe and only consume 3mg of ionic silver, over what length of time you don't have a clue, and you have no idea when you have reached nor exceeded that threshold. but you thank god you're not a female rat who doesn't count because of her gender and it didn't fit the little square boxes of nih study.

what happened to "physician, heal thyself?"
Really, I think you have lost your mind. If you read my entire post you would realize I was talking about 1-3 mg of ionic silver per day, every day, for 70 years, to reach lowest threshold for Argyria, which is pretty much the only observed problem, according to science. It equates to somewhere around 1-2 ounces of silver. It is obvious you are not particularly interested in a discussion. Sorry about the loss of your friend! Take care.

[pioneer]

S/s is good stuff!

But it is nasty stuff to work with with! Spent close to a year in the mid to late 70's working on a kellog ammonia nitrate plant for China. Fitting and welding stainless pressure vessels. Abt 3 inch or better wall thickness.

Knew several welders that got poisoned by the welding fumes. Burnt many a rod and the smell sorta reminded me of butter.

Nasty to work with! But does makes nice rainbow welds as the welds in the metal cools, lots of straw to blue.

Sorry for your friend, can understand, fully!

Hell of a way to check out.

thanks, dogman. and thanks for the validation. 3" thick S/S vessels? that's some serious welding skill you have there!

[pioneer]

Outside the body can do good, inside the body maybe not so!

Sorta like if one is good then 100 would be fantastic!

this scientific and peer reviewed abstract from a 2010 study on the toxicity of silver in nano-sizes should help illuminate the "I gulp gallons of silver to boost my immunity" crowd as to what science has revealed is truly happening instead.


Silver and Gold Nanoparticles Alter Cathepsin Activity In vitro

Janice L Speshock1, Laura K Braydich-Stolle1, Eric R Szymanski12 and Saber M Hussain1*

* Corresponding author: Saber M Hussain saber.hussain@wpafb.af.mil

Author Affiliations

1 Applied Biotechnology Branch, Human Effectiveness Directorate, 711th Human Performance Wing, Air Force Research Laboratory (711 HPW/RHPB), Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (AFB), Area B, R ST, Bldg 837, Dayton, OH 45433-5707, USA

2 Electrical and Computer Engineering Department, College of Engineering, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH USA

Received: 21 May 2010
Accepted: 6 August 2010
Published: 29 August 2010

© 2010 Speshock et al.

This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Abstract

Nanomaterials are being incorporated into many biological applications for use as therapeutics, sensors, or labels. Silver nanomaterials are being utilized for biological implants and wound dressings as an antiviral material, whereas gold nanomaterials are being used as biological labels or sensors due to their surface properties and biocompatibility.

Cytotoxicity data of these materials are becoming more prevalent; however, little research has been performed to understand how the introduction of these materials into cells affects cellular processes.

Here, we demonstrate the impact that silver and gold nanoparticles have on cathepsin activity in vitro.

Cathepsins are important cellular proteases that are imperative for proper immune system function. We have selected to examine gold and silver nanoparticles due to the increased use of these materials in biological applications.

This manuscript depicts how both of these types of nanomaterials affect cathepsin activity, which could impact the host's immune system and its ability to respond to pathogens. Cathepsin B activity decreases in a dose-dependent manner with all nanoparticles tested.

Alternatively, the impact of nanoparticles on cathepsin L activity depends greatly on the type and size of the material.

Keywords:
Cathepsin; Protease; Nanoparticle; Gold; Silver


Introduction

Cathepsins are lysosomal proteases that are present in many different types of mammalian cells. Cathepsins B and L are cysteine proteases localized in the lysosomes and endosomes and are mainly involved in protein degradation and antigen presentation [1].

Cathepsin B is mainly expressed in antigen-presenting cells (APCs) and is involved in protein processing for presentation and is responsible for the degradation of the invariant chain (Ii), a chaperone molecule essential for major histocompatibility complex (MHC) class II molecules assembly and transport [2,3].

Cathepsin B also functions to process MHC-II binding peptides in the endosome [3]. In addition to antigen presentation, cathepsin B is also involved in many other physiological processes such as inflammation, wound repair, apoptosis, (EDITOR: cell death) and activation of thyroxine and renin [2].

Cathepsin L is present in all mammalian tissues and degrades both exogenous and endogenous proteins [3].

Cathepsin L also regulates MHC class II antigen presentation by cleaving Ii, especially in the thymic endothelium where it generates epitopes required for T-cell selection [3,4]. Due to the many immune system processes that these enzymes regulate, alteration in their function could be detrimental to the host.

Nanotechnology is a growing field of study focused on the development of materials sized <100 nm. These nano-sized particles exhibit unique physical and chemical properties that are often different than the bulk material from which they are derived [5].

Nanomaterials are being adapted for many uses, but until recently not much effort has been put toward examining the biological effects of these unique materials. Recent studies have demonstrated that silver nanoparticles (Ag-NPs), which are receiving considerable attention due to their antimicrobial properties, are actually quite toxic to mammalian cells at low doses [6-8].

Bulk and nanosilver have been shown to interact readily with mammalian proteins and inactivate cellular enzymes, which could contribute to Ag toxicity in vitro [9-11].

In this current study, we examined the interaction of Ag-NPs with cathepsins B and L and determined the extent of enzymatic inhibition caused by the nano-Ag using both purified cathepsins and a cell culture model.

The effects of gold nanoparticles (Au-NPs) on cathepsin activity were also assessed due to recent concerns involving the effects of cathepsin L on functionalized Au-NPs [12]. Au-NPs are generally found to be non-toxic to mammalian cells in culture [13], and there is little evidence indicating how they interact with enzymes and whether they alter enzymatic function.



this has not been refuted to the best of my knowledge; after its acceptance and publication in 2010.

it is now 2014.

just thought i'd post some of the science out there to slap awake the sleeping disbelievers/ionic nano - sized "colloidal silver" gallon gulpers on here claiming 10-15 PPM quantities production with balance being ionic silver which converts to toxic SILVER CHLORIDE both in the stomach, and in the bloodstream if delivered via injection.

The electronic version of this article is the complete one and can be found online at: http://www.nanoscalereslett.com/content/6/1/17

[Dogman]

thanks, dogman. and thanks for the validation. 3" thick S/S vessels? that's some serious welding skill you have there!. Girth and long seams were done by sub arc, all nozzles, projections and stuff were done by stick. The co learned abt fumes once people started to get sick, so major ventilation/exhaust for the fumes
Also fresh air supplied welding hoods when working in the tanks! In those days a 16 lb sludge hammer with dogs and wedge's were my friend!

;)

Edit

Thinking abt that job, there may have been some 4 inch wall thickness tanks also. Think Nixon had a hand in it, big ammonia nitrate plant sent to the red's in the mid/late 70'

Welding rods melted/burnt in like butter very smooth.

[hoarder]

"Scientifc and peer reviewed" studies by big pharma only have an effect on those stupid enough to trust them.

[pioneer]

"Scientifc and peer reviewed" studies by big pharma only have an effect on those stupid enough to trust them.

you another autistic, MMR vaccinated hoarder i presume?

[pioneer]

serpo should feel emboldened by the non-toxicity of nano-gold consumption in referenced article.

[hoarder]

you another autistic, MMR vaccinated hoarder i presume?Your brilliant "studies" are done by the same element that gave us those toxic vaccinations, Shlomo.

[pioneer]

Your brilliant "studies" are done by the same element that gave us those toxic vaccinations, Shlomo.

sure as hell ain't no big pharma signing my "peer reviewed" paychecks, chuckles.

[Serpo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30LAsQWP68s


http://biophysica.com/content/

[pioneer]

http://biophysica.com/content/[/url]

the section on silver in catalysis was particularly well written from my perspective. a lot of grist in that section for those stacking silver to facilitate their understanding of the industrial use of Ag. thanks

[rolledgold]

This is one of those odd fascination topics. People who have strange addictions and all. I guess if it helps you sleep at night there is no harm. Let people believe what they want I guess, who cares? It’s a victimless crime sort of thing.

[Serpo]

This is one of those odd fascination topics. People who have strange addictions and all. I guess if it helps you sleep at night there is no harm. Let people believe what they want I guess, who cares? It’s a victimless crime sort of thing.

What do you mean exactly

[vacuum]

vacuum summary:

There are essentially two steps to making colloidal silver.

First, make ionic silver of a known concentration. To do this, run a known current through the electrodes for a known amount of time with a known volume of water. The relationship between these three variables to give you a certain ppm is Faraday's law of electrolysis. I highly recommend a constant current power source rather than a voltage source or batteries. Then you aren't guessing on how much electrolyte to use, and you don't have to adjust the spacing of the electrodes, screw around with resistors, etc.

Once you have an ionic silver solution of a known concentration, simply add a reducing agent of a known concentration to neutralize the ions and stabilize the solution. Heating the ionic solution while you do this will make the reaction happen faster, which is probably a good thing. (who knows what ions will do if they sit long enough, they could combine with various impurities and form different silver compounds) The reducing agent they use here is corn syrup. Personally I'd rather look for a better alternative, but whatever. Adding a little bit too much reducing agent shouldn't cause any problems. Adding too little would simply mean not all ions are neutralized.

Also, the colloidal gold/silver forum that he references is a great resource.
http://forum.cgcsforum.com/
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur-oP3bmbc

#386 Ionic & Colloidal Silver, Definitive Guide To Making

Published on Nov 29, 2014

In just 35 minutes you will learn how to make true ionic silver and then convert it into true colloidal silver. Disregard video #379. It is still grossly inaccurate. Special thanks to the nice people at the Colloidal Gold and Silver forum for sharing the truth with us, no BS.
http://forum.cgcsforum.com/

Rather than repost some minor corrections and additions from their forum to my procedure, here is a direct link. I highly recommend reading the contents of this post...
http://forum.cgcsforum.com/index.php?...

I will be running a few more batches to see if I can demonstrate exactly what is described in that post. Also, please see my previous video how to make a nebulizer inhaler for only $13! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDOAs...

Documented history and benefits of colloidal silver for medical use
http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.p...

Evidence of colloidal silver shipment seizures by the WHO
http://www.naturalnews.com/047101_ebo...

The short version:
15mA releases 1mg ionic silver / minute or +1ppm/minute/L of water. 15mA is too much current density for one small rod. 5mA is best and releases 1mg ionic silver every 3 minutes. 60 minutes at 5mA yields 20ppm ionic silver.

Approx 20 drops electrolyte / L water.
Approx 4 drops reducing agent / L, then warmed.
Also, keep the RA refrigerated! I found out the hard way, it's the perfect medium to grow bacteria!

For my friends in West Africa suffering from Ebola and cruelly being denied access to experimental treatments with colloidal silver blocked by the World Health Organization (WHO), and for everyone else too, here is how to make it yourself, the correct way.

WHY WOULD THE W.H.O. BLOCK SHIPMENTS OF SUCH A BENIGN, NON-TOXIC SUBSTANCE FOR CLINICAL TRIALS ON PATIENTS DYING FROM EBOLA? WHAT DON'T THEY WANT US TO LEARN ABOUT THE MEDICAL BENEFITS OF SILVER? WHAT IS THEIR TRUE AGENDA? AND WHAT WILL YOU DO ABOUT IT?

[vacuum]

Visit their forum for more information.
http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1141.0


The Making of Colloidal Silver -- Part 1
Background Information
Jan 31, 2011 -- Updated Sep 23, 2012
Copyright 2011, cgcsforum.com

Introduction:
Colloidal Silver has been made at home with very little equipment for decades. Colloidal silver is well known to be an effective antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal substance. Silver is appearing in many commercial products, from personal hygiene to washing machines. The EPA has even tried to ban it for fear that it will destroy beneficial microorganisms in the environment.

Unfortunately, homemade colloidal silver is often made incorrectly resulting in the final product being something other than colloidal silver. Usually that is silver oxide or silver chloride, both of which are ionic salts of silver and which seems to be the product that turns people blue.

It is my intent to show a proven method of making true colloidal silver, and why you should not make ionic silver for internal use.

What exactly is a colloid?
A colloid consists of very small particles of something suspended in another medium. It is not a solution of dissolved material. Fog is a good example of a colloid; it is very fine drops of water suspended in air. Milk is a colloid of very fine particles of proteins and fats suspended in water. With a fine enough filter, the suspended material in a colloid can be filtered out. If the particles in a colloid lump together, the particles will get bigger to the point where they can no longer stay suspended, and they will fall out. If this happens to be fog or a cloud, it becomes rain. Colloidal silver is actually silver nano sized particles suspended in water, usually about 14 nanometers in diameter.

In the case of true colloidal silver, the particles are kept apart by electrostatic repulsion. This is true regardless of whether the silver nanoparticles were made by electrochemical or chemical means.

When a beam of light is projected through a colloid, the particles reflect light in all directions making the light beam visible. This is called the Tyndall effect, and I'm sure you have seen it while driving on a foggy night.

Color of the Colloid:
Another important attribute of a colloid is its color. Milk looks white because the particle sizes in the liquid are at least as large as the wavelengh of red light. The milk particles reflect all wavelengths of visible light, from 400 nano meters to 800 nano meter wavelengths. (A nanometer is a length of 1 billionth of a meter).

When metal particles are much smaller than the wavelength of light, they no longer can reflect all wavelengths, so they are no longer white. At small particle sizes, each particle exhibits the Plasmon Resonance1, and absorbs specific wavelengths from the light striking it. This gives the colloid the appearance of the complementary color of the wavelength it absorbed. IE: If the blue light is removed by absorption, the particle will look yellow (green and red are not absorbed, so the resultant color is yellow). The important thing to know about the Plasmon Resonance is that color tells you the particle size of a metal nanoparticle!

Tyndall Effect:
Newcomers to making CS soon learn about the Tyndall Effect. It is the scattering of light by the particles suspended in solution, and typically it shows you have a colloid. Its what allows you to see a flashlight beam projecting in a fog. Its also not very important, and it doesn't require you to buy a laser pointer; a small flashlight will do. The Tyndall effect really shows turbidity6, which is something which should be minimized in the colloidal silver product. A strong Tyndall effect means there are more particles of larger size. Smaller particle sizes produce less Tyndall effect.

Ionic Silver versus Metallic Silver:
All elements are composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. When an atom contains the same number of protons as electrons, it is in its elemental state. Silver normally has 47 electrons and 47 protons. Electrons are negative charge, and protons are positive charge, so in an atom of elemental silver, the net charge is zero because each electron is cancelled out by a proton. If an atom of silver were to lose one of its electrons, it would then have a positive charge, and that is called an ion. An ion is an atom which has either gained an electron (becoming negative) or lost an electron (becoming positive). Negative ions are called anions, and positive ions are call cations.

When elements combine chemically, some atoms give up electrons to other atoms. This is what makes a chemical compound. For instance,a sodium metal atom gives up an electron to a chlorine atom to form table salt. When that happens, the sodium becomes ionic instead of metallic.

Why is this important? Most people make silver oxide or silver chloride (ionic silver products) thinking they are making colloidal silver, and while ionic silver is an antibacterial, it is also 25 times more toxic to human cells than metallic silver2. It also seems to be the commonality among the people who have experienced disfiguring Argyria, the permanent blue discoloration of the skin.

The most common method of making silver at home produces silver oxide. But silver oxide reacts strongly with hydrochloric stomach acid producing silver chloride, the silver salt most likely to cause Argyria. For the rest of this article, references to ionic silver means silver chloride unless otherwise noted.

How Does Ionic Silver Cause Argyria?
Most people know that film photography is based on silver. In particular, it is based on silver salts5, because silver salts are naturally photosensitive. Film is coated with silver salts, exposure to light provides enough energy to break apart the silver compound in the film producing silver metal. The remaining silver salts which were not exposed to light are then washed away in the development process leaving the dark opaque silver behind as a negative image. A similar process can occur in a person's skin.

One important difference between metallic and ionic silver is that ionic silver chloride is partially soluble in water. This would seem to be the key as to why Argyria occurs, and why it is permanent. Silver chloride is soluble to .8 parts per million, but some other silver compounds like silver selenide and silver sulfide are not soluble at all.

As a dissolved substance, ionic silver chloride can travel places in the body's tissues that larger metallic silver nanoparticles cannot because ions are the smallest possible pieces of matter. These silver ions are positive charged and are attracted to human cells which are negatively charged on their outside cell walls. Since positive and negative charges are attracted to each other, the silver ions bind to and enter into the cell wall, carried by metallothioneins. The silver ions then react chemically with sulfur or selenium ions present in the cell creating insoluble silver compounds. At that point, the silver is no longer ionic, and is no longer in solution. It is trapped inside the cell. As these particles accumulate, the cell darkens and result in Argyria. Most of the silver is trapped by a person's internal organ cells, so even though the skin looks normal, it is quite possible that Argyria is already occurring internally where it cannot be seen. Argyria occurs from the inside out!

It is well documented that the worst discoloration of Argyria occurs in the parts of the skin that are most exposed to light: the face, arms and hands. This is because silver chloride trapped inside skin cells is photosensitive.... its what makes photographic film work. So sunlight can also transform a silver ion into a silver atom, which looks blue black in such tiny particles. Single atoms of metals tend to grow like a crystal as they colllect more silver atoms, and thus grow in size. This is another way ionic silver gets trapped in the skin by converting to metal through exposure to sunlight.

Scanning electron micrographs of biopsies of Argyria victims confirm the presence of silver metal, silver selenide, and silver sulfide in the skin tissues.

The progression from ingesting ionic silver to Argyria is then:

Ingest ionic silver oxide
Silver oxide converts to silver chloride in the presence of stomach acid
Ionic silver is absorbed by tissues and bloodstream
Ionic silver then binds to cell walls by electrostatic attraction
Silver ions enter the cell and are taken up by the metallothioneins.
Silver ions react with sulfur or selenium ions and are permanently trapped in the cell.
Silver ions react to sunlight and are reduced to silver atoms.
Silver crystals form as more silver ions repeat the process.


Scientific Studies:

There are many scientific studies of the properties of silver nanoparticles in the published literature. Almost all that the author has found are in-vitro3 studies exploring the effectiveness of silver preparations and how to produce them. The studies for the most part are done using silver products prepared chemically by the reduction of silver salts using a reducing agent. Few if any have been done using silver produced electrochemically. However it is safe to assume that colloidal silver made electrochemically is equivalent to that made chemically provided the particles' basic attributes of size and shape are the same. Because the vast majority of serious research is done in-vitro, there is little real data concerning real life dosing, and results. Most of the information about using colloidal silver internally is anecdotal. There is a published peer reviewed study showing that silver nanoparticles are more effective for bacteria and fungi than ionic silver.
"Interestingly, AgNP's have been shown in a variety of cases to be more toxic to bacteria and fungi than free ions"7

It will be left to the reader to seek out the published literature if so desired.

Commercial Sources:
There seems to be hundreds of manufacturers of colloidal silver, each touting their own special formula. Some of these sources make excellent product and some are very dubious. One thing is clear though: Colloidal silver is only cheap if you make it yourself.

Even at $50 an ounce for silver, a 16 ounce bottle of 20ppm colloidal silver has less than 2 cents worth of silver in it. Quality colloidal silver can be made at home with a very modest investment. $100 worth of supplies will probably last a lifetime.

Thoughts on dosing:
As said previously, there is little to no scientific studies regarding dosing, or what happens in-vivo4 when colloidal silver is consumed. However, some of the in-vitro data may be useful. One of the important pieces of information is the concentration of silver required to kill bacteria. Two to six ppm seems to be the minimum for most bacteria in lab experiments. It seems safe to suppose that less than that would not be effective in the body. (One ppm is one milligram of silver in a liter of water.)

It seems sensible to assume that disease agents travel around the body in the blood and lymph, the primary fluids which flow within all parts of the body. Considering then that the average person has 5 liters of blood, it would then seem that a dose large enough to kill bacteria in the blood stream would be at least 10 milligrams of silver. This would be the amount of silver in about one pint of 20 ppm colloidal silver.

Calculating dose based on blood volume would be an ideal way to get a handle on dosing except that we do not know how much of the silver ingested actually is absorbed and enters the bloodstream, and if that silver entering the blood stream is still of a size that has therapeutic value. As soon as the colloidal silver enters the body, some will be absorbed through the mucosal lining of the mouth and esophagus, but the remainder is soon mixed with hydrochloric acid plus a host of other chemicals in the stomach. Acids and other electrolytes destroy the electrostatic repulsion between the silver particles and allow them to aggregate into larger particles which would make them useless. The actual amount of silver which enters the bloodstream would then be affected by anything which affects the chemistry of the stomach. So dosing is still a guess, but we do have a good idea about the minimum dose. As a personal choice, the author arbitrarily doubles the minimum amount and takes 1 liter of 20 ppm silver over the course of a day when needed. No antibiotics including silver should ever be taken without good cause.

It is obvious then that taking a teaspoon a day as a food supplement is probably not going to do anything therapeutic, unless the placebo effect is considered therapeutic since the amount would be far below the concentration needed to kill bacteria or other microorganisms. Silver is not a food, and is not essential to life. Consuming small amounts of silver as a food supplement has no documented and proven health benefits.

In the next part, we will talk about various ways to produce true colloidal silver.

GOTO Part II (http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1139.0)
1) Plasmon Resonance: Resonant oscillation of the surface electrons of metals at visible light frequencies. Resonant frequency depends both on size and shape of the particle and contributes to the observed color.

2) Antibacterial activity and toxicity of silver nanosilver versus ionic silver, Libor Kvitek LINK to pdf file

3) In-vitro: research done in a test tube environment -- literally, 'in glass' as opposed to within a living organism.

4) In-vivo: Within a living organism

5) Usually silver chloride, silver bromide, or silver iodide.

6) Turbidity is the cloudiness or haziness of a fluid caused by individual particles (suspended solids) that are generally invisible to the naked eye,

7) Advances in Applied Microbiology Vol. 77 By Allen I. Laskin, Geoffrey M. Gadd, Sima Sariaslani

[vacuum]

Visit their forum for more information.
http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1139.0


The Making of Colloidal Silver -- Part 2
Production Techniques
Jan 30, 2011 Updated Oct 29, 2015

Our Goals:

The goals for a colloidal silver production method for personal use should include:


High quality
Consistent concentration (ppm)
Short processing time
No toxic chemicals
Smallest possible particle size
Inexpensive equipment


Common Method Used Today:

Most of the home made colloidal silver made today is made by the electrolysis process where two silver wire electrodes are inserted into cold water and an electrical current is passed through the electrodes from a battery or other power supply. This is the method which is commonly known, and done with a couple of nine volt batteries and pieces of silver wire.

If this simple process is done, it fails to meet any of our production goals. It does not even meet the goal of "no toxic chemicals" because the process itself creates the chemical silver oxide which as has been explained may cause Argyria. What it does create is an ionic solution of silver oxide and some colloidal silver oxide (very large particles of precipitated silver oxide).

Worse yet is that most people think you should shine a laser beam through the water looking for the Tyndall effect. Good 20 ppm ionic silver will show no Tyndall effect, and if you get one, it means your silver is already overcooked and bad.

Even worse is if salt is added to 'start the process faster'. Adding salt with this simple method cold only creates large amounts of silver chloride, which again is implicated in causing Argyria.

A much better way:

To make colloidal silver correctly, safely, and repeatably, here is the process.

You will need:


.999 pure silver wire or a pure silver bullion coin. These are readily available.
Pure steam distilled or de-ionized water. Steam distilled is preferable.
Light corn syrup (Karo), or invert sugar.(reducing agent) (http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0)
Sodium carbonate (washing soda)(electrolyte (http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0))
Constant current or computerized generator with at least 3 ma current.
A fixture to hold your electrodes to approximately 1.5 inches/37mm apart.
Glass container, like a canning jar (Mason/Ball)
Inexpensive milliammeter


The procedure:

Mix up the corn syrup with an equal amount of distilled water. This will be the reducing agent which converts ionic silver to true colloidal silver. Make 1 or 2 ounces, as you will only need a few drops of this mixture per gallon of water.

Mix up the sodium carbonate by dissolving 1 level tablespoon in 3 ounces of water.*

Starting with 1 liter of water, add 20 drops of sodium carbonate solution. Sodium carbonate is what you get when you bake baking soda, so you have consumed a lot of this in your life, and it is not toxic. Mix well.

Insert your electrodes into your fixture and then into the water. Turn on the power. Put as much of your positive electrode into the water as possible, and no more than 1/4 inch of the negative electrode to start.

Using a milliammeter, measure the current through your electrodes and if the current does not reach the set point of the generator, you can insert more of the negative electrode into the water to increase the current. If using silver wire for your electrodes, your generator should be set to no more than 6 ma unless you have a magnetic stirrer. If using a 1 ounce bullion coin, it should be no more than 15 mA. These currents can be increased if you have a sufficiently strong stirrer. The distance between electrodes should be about 1.5 inches (37mm).

Calculate the required time to make 20 ppm based on the formula that 1 milligram of silver will enter the water for each 15 milliAmp minutes of process time. 15 milliAmp-minutes could be 1 mA for 15 minutes, 2 mA for 7.5 minutes, 15 mA for 1 minute, etc.

20 ppm is 20 milligrams of silver per liter. So for example, if you only wanted to make 250ml, you would only need 5 milligrams of silver, and 5 * 15 milliAmp-minutes of current.

When the required time has elapsed, turn off the power, remove the electrodes, and add 2 drops of the corn syrup solution to the water and heat it to at least 140 degrees F. In a few minutes, it will change from crystal clear and colorless to crystal clear but yellow colored. This color change is the proof that the ionic silver has been converted to true colloidal silver.

Time required for 1 liter of 20 ppm Colloidal silver at various constant currents:


Current mA Time minutes
3 100
5 60
6 50
10 30
15 20


For quarts instead of liters, decrease time by 5%

You can calculate the required time for other amounts and currents from this formula:

minutes = milliliters * ppm * 0.015 / milliAmps.

This is the basic method. There are variations on this method, using hot water vs cold, different reducing agents etc, but this method always produces quality 20 ppm colloidal silver and is recommended as a starting point for beginners interesting in producing the best colloidal silver possible. Higher strengths are possible, but need some additional equipment and other food items.
* Amount shown is for Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda. If you have a milligram scale, the correct amount is 12.4 grams with enough water to make 100ml.

[vacuum]

Go to their forum for more information.
http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0


Electrolytes and Reducing Agents - Tradeoffs
Copyright © 2011 cgcsforum.com -- Nov 27, 2011 -- updated 12/11/2015


Electrolytes:

The electrolytic process for making colloidal silver requires an electrolyte to work. Even pure distilled water with nothing added to it acts as a weak electrolyte because a very small amount of pure water disassociates into H+ and OH- ions. You might say that a certain amount of water dissolves in itself as hydrogen hydroxide. A liter of pure water will contain 10-7 moles1 of hydrogen ions, and 10-7 moles of hydroxide ions. This amounts to 0.0017 milligrams of hydroxide ions, but this tiny amount is enough to make silver hydroxide when you put silver electrodes in the water and connect them to a battery. These hydrogen ions and hydroxide ions are the current carriers which allows current flow through the electrolysis cell, but so few carriers result in a very weak current. A weak current results in a long process time.

Aside from the long process time, using the hydroxide inherent in pure water as the electrolyte has another problem. The amount of hydroxide is not constant, but increases as the amount of silver hydroxide increases. This creates a run-away process that gets faster with time, and therefore is difficult to control as anyone who has used this simple process can attest.

We can solve these problems by adding an appropriate electrolyte to our water. A useable electrolyte must have certain characteristics. It must be non-toxic above all else. It must not form any toxic byproducts. It must form a soluble compound with the anode metal. It must dissociate in water (ionize). Its positive ion should not plate out onto the cathode. It should be inexpensive, and readily available. These requirements reduce the number of choices considerably.

In choosing the specific compound to use, toxicity is paramount. Luckily substances normally found in human physiology are good candidates. Chlorides, citrates, gluconates and hydroxides and carbonates are all non-toxic anions3 especially in the low concentrations we need. Chlorides are everywhere in the body, and citrates are an integral part of the citric acid cycle which provides our energy. Gluconates are commonly found in foods. Hydroxide is a natural constituent of water. The body is very adept at handling these substances.

There are only two very common bio-compatible substances which will not plate out onto a cathode. They are sodium and potassium. Both of these ions react strongly with water as soon as they are reduced to metal at the cathode, and create hydroxides which are water soluble. So, the sodium or potassium stays in solution as ions. Because of this, a sodium or potassium salt would be ideal for making colloidal silver electrolytically. An added benefit of using sodium salts is that it is self replenishing. The sodium ions that contact the cathode are immediately reduced to sodium metal, and then react with the water to become sodium hydroxide. The net result is that the electrolyte is never used up.

For these reasons, my first choice of an electrolyte is sodium carbonate, commonly known as washing soda. It is cheap, readily available, and it works extremely well for making colloidal silver. It is also safe to handle. Everyone has consumed sodium carbonate, it is what results from heating baking soda, so is a common ingredient in baked goods. Sodium carbonate is the salt of a strong base and a weak acid. When dissolved in water, it creates sodium hydroxide and carbonic acid. Very little of the the carbonic acid actually ionizes, and exists as carbon dioxide dissolved in the water.... like soft drink. The net result is that the sodium carbonate liberates mostly sodium and hydroxide ions., not carbonate ions.

When using sodium carbonate as an electrolyte, the MINIMUM theoretical voltage needed is 3.5 volts. Below this there is not enough voltage to reduce the sodium at the cathode and oxidize the silver at the anode. This comes from the electrochemical series which describes the voltage a metal creates when used with a different metal in an electrolytic cell (battery). Experiments I have conducted seem to confirm this. The sodium ion requires -2.71 volts to force an electron to it, and the silver atom requires 0.8 volts to remove an electron from it. So the total is 3.51 volts. In practice, the voltage should be several times this minimum because there is voltage lost in the bulk water itself. 10 volts is a good minimum across the electrodes producing satisfactory results, but I have found that higher voltage is always better. However, the improvement is not linear. IE: 10 times the voltage does not provide a ten fold increase in quality or efficiency. Anything over 20 volts is probably not very beneficial with an electrode distance of 1.5 inches. Wider spacings or different electrode geometries will require higher voltage for the same result.

Using sufficient sodium based electrolyte keeps most of the silver from plating onto the cathode. The positive ion with the lowest redox potential from the electrochemical series will selectively plate out. Since sodium's redox potential is -2.71 and silvers is +0.8, the sodium ions keep the silver from plating onto the cathode.

Reducing Agents:

Reducing agents are necessary if one wishes to make non-ionic colloidal silver. While heat alone can accomplish this, the process is slow, and not always complete. Also, it is very difficult to make higher ppm concentrations of silver using heat alone.

As with electrolytes, the non-toxicity of a reducing agent is the first consideration. I pondered this for a long time until I realized that any food we eat will undergo chemical oxidation by the body. The body knows quite well how to handle the oxidized byproducts of metabolism. This means that if the food is non-toxic, so will be its reduction/oxidation products. Luckily, there are many sugar based and other food products which are reducing agents and work with silver. The quality of the product differs with choice of reducing agents in that some produce more consistent particle sizes, some work faster, and some produce more stable product. Agents which have shown to work are glucose, corn syrup, invert sugar, maltose, maltodextrin, and cinnamon extract. Tea is also a reducing agent, and has been shown to reduce gold. So far, the best one I have found is clear corn syrup. Corn syrup is a 50/50 mixture of glucose and maltose plus water. Both glucose and maltose are reducing agents for silver, but the combination works better than either one of them alone. Lactose may also work, but I have not tested it. Ordinary table sugar (sucrose) does not work, nor does ordinary starch. Coffee is also known to reduce silver as some amateur photographers make their own developer from coffee2, but it colors the solution, and that reduces the ability to judge quality by color, so it is not recommended.

When the process is complete, and all of the silver ions are reduced, the solution will contain nothing toxic.

For any of these agents to work, the pH of the solution must be basic (above pH 7). pH above 7 opens up the ring structure of a glucose molecule activating it as a reducing agent. Using sodium carbonate as an electrolyte automatically raises the pH sufficiently to activate the reducing agent. This requirement would seem to put a lower limit on the current used for the electrolysis, as the voltage minimum would not be reached if very low currents were used. This limit would also depend on the electrode geometry, as decreasing the electrode area will have the effect of raising the cell resistance, therefore requiring a higher voltage for a given current.

One ml (18 to 20 drops) of 1 Molar sodium carbonate per liter/quart is a very good amount to use, as it is sufficient to prevent plateout, sufficient to activate sugar based reducing agents, and provides plenty of conductivity.

1) A mole of any substance contains approximately 6 x 1023 molecules, and weighs the sum of its atomic weights in grams.
2) Coffenol developer contains Folgers instant coffee, vitamin C, and baking soda.
3) Anions are ions which are more negative than the anode. Cations are ions which are more positive than the cathode.
4) It gives the salt and vinegar flavor to certain brands of potato chips.

[vacuum]

Go to their forum for more information.
http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1142.0


Colloidal Silver Chemistry
Copyright © 2011, Updated 11/08/2014 cgcsforum.com

Colloidal Silver is a popular home remedy for a host of ailments. It can be purchased at health food stores, and of course on the internet. It is expensive though considering a pennies worth of silver may cost $10.

For that reason, many people attempt to make it themselves through a simple process of electrolysis. The most common method is simply to put two silver wires into a glass of water and connect the wires to a couple of 9 volt batteries. There are two important variations in the process though, one very good, and one very bad. There are much better ways to make colloidal silver, which are covered in another article.

So what do most people actually make and call Colloidal Silver?

Well, that depends on the method they use. Here are the three main methods I hear of people using and the method most researchers use:

I) Distilled water + silver anode at room temperature.

In this method, free hydroxyl ions (OH-) in the water initially react with the positive silver electrode to make silver hydroxide (AgOH). Starting with pure water, and pure silver, Silver hydroxide is the only product that can be initially made. Silver hydroxide is unstable though and rapidly decomposes to silver oxide Ag2O. If you remember your high school chemistry, the reaction forumula would be:

2AgOH –> Ag2O + H2O

Silver Oxide is slightly soluble in water, and after electrolyzing for a while you have an ionic silver solution, not colloidal silver. You can prove that silver ions exist at this point by adding a small amount of table salt as a test. The salt will form silver chloride which will precipitate out to form a cloudy liquid because the solubility of silver chloride is 25 times less than silver oxide.1

If the electrolysis is continued, the silver oxide will reach saturation, and then will start to precipitate as colloidal silver oxide. At this point, the solution will start to show the Tyndall effect. This is not strictly colloidal silver, although it does have anti-microbial properties according to the EPA2 Silver oxide is what gives the solution its metallic taste which is another indication you have made silver oxide instead of colloidal silver.

This is what most people make and erroneously call colloidal silver. Once swallowed and mixed with hydrochloric stomach acid, the silver oxide reacts with the acid producing silver chloride. Once absorbed into the bloodstream, it can travel into the skin and other tissues where it can further react with selenium and sulfer compounds forming silver selenide and silver sulfide. Scanning electron microscopy studies of Argyria victims show that the silver trapped in the skin is predominately silver sulfide and silver selenide, so it is highly likely that ingesting large amounts of ionic silver will eventually lead to Argyria.

II) High Temperature Colloidal Silver method

If the same method as above is performed while the water is close to boiling temperature, an additional reaction happens. Silver Oxide reduces to metallic silver when close to boiling in the absence of free oxygen3 and in the presence of hydrogen gas. Hydrogen gas is generated at the cathode by the reaction of reduced sodium and water or by the electrolysis of water if no sodium is present. This makes a straw colored colloidal silver product. The yellow color is caused by the plasmon resonance effect of the extremely small metallic silver particles.

The spontaneous reaction that reduces the silver oxide to silver is:
Ag2O + 2H --> 2Ag + H2O
This reaction is usually not complete because some of the hydrogen gas is lost by escaping from the water.

The result is then a solution containing very little silver oxide (ionic silver) and a majority of metallic silver particles. This can also be tested by the addition of some salt. Unlike the CS made at room temperature, this CS does not turn cloudy with the addition of chloride ions showing that it contains few silver ions. This is true colloidal silver.

III) Distilled water + salt + silver anode.

Some people add a little table salt to jump start the electrolysis process. This method produces silver chloride, which has very low solubility and thus produces a cloudy solution. Silver chloride is very photosensitive, and is used in the production of photographic paper. When ingested, silver chloride ions travel into the skin, and are photo reduced by sunlight to insoluble silver, or chemically reacted with sulfides and selenides to insoluble silver compounds which then becomes trapped in the skin and cannot be removed.

IV) Reduction of Silver Salts with a Reducing Agent
Not many home brewers use this method, but it is the method of choice with professional researchers, as it is quick, highly repeatable, and highly controllable. This method produces true silver nanoparticles with no ionic content. Typically, a soluble silver salt, such as silver nitrate is reduced to silver metal particles using an agent such as glucose. The technique can be combined with home methods easily though just by adding a small amount of a suitable reducing agent to their water. Suitable reducing agents for at home use include corn syrup (best), Golden or King syrup, maltodextrin, or glucose. These are all foods or food additives, and do not create any toxic byproducts.

V) Electrolysis Combined with a Reducing Agent

This is the method I favor, as it is simple, reliable, uses no toxic chemicals, and produces true silver nanoparticles. It does require some specialized equipment which can be made at home. Instructions and details can be found in the cgcsforum.com main site.

Which method is better?

Definitely not method III, with salt. Ingesting silver chloride is simply asking for trouble in my opinion.

Method I, the most common way of making CS would seem to be safe however the product does not remain silver oxide when ingested. The stomach is a chloride rich environment which will convert silver oxide to silver chloride as soon as it is swallowed. Do people take enough silver oxide to be a problem? I don’t know. Perhaps silver chloride is not readily absorbed by the body, but then why is that the people who developed argyria have used salt to make their CS? Maybe its simply the dosage.

The best method is one which produces no ionic content, as true CS will not react strongly with stomach acid to make silver chloride, and it has an excellent shelf life, even when exposed to light. I have a sample several years old in a clear glass bottle exposed to light every day, and it has not yet degraded.

A recent published report showed that ionic silver is 25 times more toxic to human fibroblast cells (connective tissue) than metallic, but that it requires 2 to 4 times as much to inhibit bacteria4. That would seem to suggest again that metallic CS would be the better choice to take internally.

—————————————–

1) Solubility of silver species
Silver Oxide Approximately 0.00250 g/100 ml (20C)
Silver Chloride Approximately 0.00052 g/100 ml (20C)

2) US EPA Registration Review Schedule: Antimicrobial Pesticides of October, 4, 2006

3) I first discovered this when attempting to make CS using one submerged silver electrode, and one silver electrode suspended 1/8th inch above the water. I then applied 4000 volts from a transformer to create a plasma arc from the suspended electrode to the water surface. This created a clear CS (as tested by the salt method). I noticed that after a time, a yellow to brown layer would form at the top of the solution as it heated up from the plasma arc. As the arc continued to heat the solution, the brown layer would grow further down from the top. I did not know why until recently when I found reference to the decomposition of silver oxide to pure silver at boiling temperature in the absence of oxygen.

4) http://www.nanosafe.org/home/liblocal/docs/Nanosafe%202010/2010_oral%20presentations/O4b-1_Kvitek.pdf

[vacuum]

In case you don't want to read through the previous four posts, here is the method:



A much better way:

To make colloidal silver correctly, safely, and repeatably, here is the process.

You will need:


.999 pure silver wire or a pure silver bullion coin. These are readily available.
Pure steam distilled or de-ionized water. Steam distilled is preferable.
Light corn syrup (Karo), or invert sugar.(reducing agent) (http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0)
Sodium carbonate (washing soda)(electrolyte (http://www.cgcsforum.com/index.php?topic=1143.0))
Constant current or computerized generator with at least 3 ma current.
A fixture to hold your electrodes to approximately 1.5 inches/37mm apart.
Glass container, like a canning jar (Mason/Ball)
Inexpensive milliammeter


The procedure:

Mix up the corn syrup with an equal amount of distilled water. This will be the reducing agent which converts ionic silver to true colloidal silver. Make 1 or 2 ounces, as you will only need a few drops of this mixture per gallon of water.

Mix up the sodium carbonate by dissolving 1 level tablespoon in 3 ounces of water.*

Starting with 1 liter of water, add 20 drops of sodium carbonate solution. Sodium carbonate is what you get when you bake baking soda, so you have consumed a lot of this in your life, and it is not toxic. Mix well.

Insert your electrodes into your fixture and then into the water. Turn on the power. Put as much of your positive electrode into the water as possible, and no more than 1/4 inch of the negative electrode to start.

Using a milliammeter, measure the current through your electrodes and if the current does not reach the set point of the generator, you can insert more of the negative electrode into the water to increase the current. If using silver wire for your electrodes, your generator should be set to no more than 6 ma unless you have a magnetic stirrer. If using a 1 ounce bullion coin, it should be no more than 15 mA. These currents can be increased if you have a sufficiently strong stirrer. The distance between electrodes should be about 1.5 inches (37mm).

Calculate the required time to make 20 ppm based on the formula that 1 milligram of silver will enter the water for each 15 milliAmp minutes of process time. 15 milliAmp-minutes could be 1 mA for 15 minutes, 2 mA for 7.5 minutes, 15 mA for 1 minute, etc.

20 ppm is 20 milligrams of silver per liter. So for example, if you only wanted to make 250ml, you would only need 5 milligrams of silver, and 5 * 15 milliAmp-minutes of current.

When the required time has elapsed, turn off the power, remove the electrodes, and add 2 drops of the corn syrup solution to the water and heat it to at least 140 degrees F. In a few minutes, it will change from crystal clear and colorless to crystal clear but yellow colored. This color change is the proof that the ionic silver has been converted to true colloidal silver.

Time required for 1 liter of 20 ppm Colloidal silver at various constant currents:


Current mA Time minutes
3 100
5 60
6 50
10 30
15 20


For quarts instead of liters, decrease time by 5%

You can calculate the required time for other amounts and currents from this formula:

minutes = milliliters * ppm * 0.015 / milliAmps.

This is the basic method. There are variations on this method, using hot water vs cold, different reducing agents etc, but this method always produces quality 20 ppm colloidal silver and is recommended as a starting point for beginners interesting in producing the best colloidal silver possible. Higher strengths are possible, but need some additional equipment and other food items.


1) The Making of Colloidal Silver -- Part 1 General Information (https://deref-gmx.com/mail/client/dereferrer/?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cgcsforum.com%2Finde x.php%3Ftopic%3D1141.0)
2) The Making of Colloidal Silver -- Part 2 - Production Techniques (https://deref-gmx.com/mail/client/dereferrer/?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cgcsforum.com%2Finde x.php%3Ftopic%3D1139.0)
3) Electrolytes and Reducing Agents (https://deref-gmx.com/mail/client/dereferrer/?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cgcsforum.com%2Finde x.php%3Ftopic%3D1143.0)
4) Colloidal Silver Chemistry (https://deref-gmx.com/mail/client/dereferrer/?redirectUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cgcsforum.com%2Finde x.php%3Ftopic%3D1142.0)

Part 2 contains the excerpt above.

[Cebu_4_2]

Most distilled waters you find have chlorine in them. Not listed on the label but if you have a clean palete you can taste it and or smell it when you uncap it. I found only 1 brand that is pure called CPAP for use in CPAP machines. There may be others but all bottled waters here, distilled, spring etc have chlorine.

[hoarder]

I didn't see any way around it and bought a one gallon distiller a few years ago. I still buy "distilled water" to put in it. You would be amazed to see all the crap that the distiller removes from one gallon of bottled distilled water.

[Serpo]

Distilled water dosnt work very well for making C.S.......


Where I brought my collidal silver and gold maker and I consider them the best.............

They talk
about the water somewhere in this web site also.


I dont use distilled water ,though I did start using it at the start......


http://biophysica.com/content/?s=type+of+water+to+use