I pushed US Bank, did they give up because they committeed fraud? Should I persue?

[General of Darkness]

Short story.

Mother has a CD with US Bank so let me try and do bullet points.

1 - CD is six years old
2 - Mother didn't have Alzheimers then
3 - She did all her CD's on a one year term
4 - Mother gets Alzheimers about 2 years ago
5 - Come February and they renew for 5 years arbitrarily
6 - June I go to the branch and they lie to me and also want a Subpoena to get the original document she signed.
7 - July call branch manager, not returning calls
8 - August I go full on GoD on him, without the curse words but with the facts via email because I can use that to document the "transaction"
FACTS - The CD pays out at .5 percent, and over the previous 5 years equals $2,500 and they renewed it for an additional 5 years in February of this year and want to charge her a penalty for $3,000+ to get her money back
9 - Friday after multiple emails to the branch manager and a call to the District manager I get a call from the branch manager saying that all fees are waived.

So here's the question, do we just take the money and run, or do I still get the subpoena to get the original documents?

Because my GUT tells me they committed fraud and were trying to take advantage of her and didn't know I existed and by me pushing and them waiving EVERYTHING they're trying to hide it.

Is there any financial gain to putting the screws to them once we have the money, assuming it was intentional?

[Dachsie]

So here's the question, do we just take the money and run, or do I still get the subpoena to get the original documents?

Take all the money and run

AND

get a subpoena if you can do that without incurring a lot of legal costs.

Then, as you have done here, publicize your experience and if the original documents show what they tried to do was fraud.

Banks are places to stay out of and away from - period!
They make up the rules as they go along and "waive" certain things for certain people. Often times the thing that "waive" is a totally made up "bank policy or rule" that was made up and enacted after any paper contract the customer signed with the bank.

Just about every petty little money-making rule and charge and penalty and time limit is selectively enforced against the "little people" that they think won't make waves for them, but the directors and the directors spouses and children get everything at the bank free of special charges and rules, all at the bank president's discretion.

Find a small local credit union to place the money and do not commit the money in CDs even for short terms. You want demand deposits and really you wan't to keep as much of it in cash as you feel comfortable with, with you or her trusted care giver for your mother's immediate use.

There needs to be one website where people can tell their little "blow the whistle" stories where they can name the institution and the employee at the bank or Credit Union. Naming names and places and companies is extremely important.

All of this goes for complaining against major credit card operations and dealing with big companies over bills - like AT&T etc.

[boogietillyapuke]

I've heard of auto-rollover.....but never for more than the length of the original term of the CD.....something smells!!

[General of Darkness]

Take all the money and run

AND

get a subpoena if you can do that without incurring a lot of legal costs.

Then, as you have done here, publicize your experience and if the original documents show what they tried to do was fraud.

Banks are places to stay out of and away from - period!
They make up the rules as they go along and "waive" certain things for certain people. Often times the thing that "waive" is a totally made up "bank policy or rule" that was made up and enacted after any paper contract the customer signed with the bank.

Just about every petty little money-making rule and charge and penalty and time limit is selectively enforced against the "little people" that they think won't make waves for them, but the directors and the directors spouses and children get everything at the bank free of special charges and rules, all at the bank president's discretion.

Find a small local credit union to place the money and do not commit the money in CDs even for short terms. You want demand deposits and really you wan't to keep as much of it in cash as you feel comfortable with, with you or her trusted care giver for your mother's immediate use.

There needs to be one website where people can tell their little "blow the whistle" stories where they can name the institution and the employee at the bank or Credit Union. Naming names and places and companies is extremely important.

All of this goes for complaining against major credit card operations and dealing with big companies over bills - like AT&T etc.

Thanks for the advice but you're not answer the ULTIMATE question. If they really did attempt to do fraud, what are the gains? If there's no gain other than annoying them, what's the point?

[Libertytree]

In todays world I'd take the $$ and wipe myself from their books. Yeah, what they seemed to be pulling was shady as hell but pushing too far can only cause you more grief. JMVHO, I am not a financial guru!

[Cebu_4_2]

Thanks for the advice but you're not answer the ULTIMATE question. If they really did attempt to do fraud, what are the gains? If there's no gain other than annoying them, what's the point?

You can't win fighting a bank, trust me. Take the money and call it a great day, your lucky to get that much.

[skidmark]

Old people have special protections against financial fraud and abuse.

A.B. 381 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/13-14/bill/asm/ab_0351-0400/ab_381_bill_20130813_chaptered.pdf) Signed by governor 8/13/13, Chapter 99
Existing law provides that a person found liable for taking, concealing, or disposing of property belonging to the estate of a decedent, conservatee, minor, or trust through the use of undue influence in bad faith, or through the commission of elder or dependent adult financial abuse, is liable for twice the value of the property. Existing law provides that this remedy is additional to any other remedy available at law. This bill provides that a person may, in the court’s discretion, be liable for reasonable attorney’s fees and costs in these actions, except as specified. The bill specifically applies these provisions to property belonging to an elder or a dependent adult. The bill makes technical changes with regard to the nonexclusive character of the remedy provided. Existing law provides that a person who, in bad faith, wrongfully takes, conceals, or disposes of property belonging to a principal under a power of attorney is liable for twice the value of the property recovered by an action to recover the property or for surcharge. This bill extends this liability to a person who has taken, concealed, or disposed of property by the use of undue influence in bad faith or through the commission of elder or dependent adult financial abuse, as defined. The bill provides that a person may, in the court’s discretion, be liable for reasonable attorney’s fees and costs under these provisions and those described above, except as specified.

http://www.shouselaw.com/senior_fraud.html

http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/financial-crimes-against-the-elderly-2013-legis.aspx#CA

[zap]

Don't you got a lawyer friend gOd ? ask em, the banks commit fraud all the time, they gave my illiterate grandpa a line of credit, or a loan and he was 89 gave him 100,000 of course he spent it all , and died.

SO at least he had it good at the end, But now the heirs will have to pay the bank off so they can get the property.

[Dachsie]

I am not positive there are any gains TO YOU nor am I sure if the violation is technically "fraud."
The only gain I can perceive that other people would become aware of signing things and doing business with banks. That is a good thing but it is not a gain to you.

Here is the federal fraud statute and the most one can get is a few thousand dollar fine and 8 years in prison.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
18 U.S. Code § 1001 -


What I would do is file a formal complaint with the Federal Banking Commission or whatever federal regulatory agency has authority over the particular kind of financial institution it is. You can make a simple inquiry online and find out which agency is involved. You might be able to recover any costs you incurred in getting a subpoena or records but that would be all.

[General of Darkness]

I am not positive there are any gains TO YOU nor am I sure if the violation is technically "fraud."
The only gain I can perceive that other people would become aware of signing things and doing business with banks. That is a good thing but it is not a gain to you.

Here is the federal fraud statute and the most one can get is a few thousand dollar fine and 8 years in prison.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001
18 U.S. Code § 1001 -


What I would do is file a formal complaint with the Federal Banking Commission or whatever federal regulatory agency has authority over the particular kind of financial institution it is. You can make a simple inquiry online and find out which agency is involved. You might be able to recover any costs you incurred in getting a subpoena or records but that would be all.


But to do that I still need to file a subpoena, I think I might do that for shits and giggles.

[midnight rambler]

You can't win fighting a bank, trust me. Take the money and call it a great day, your lucky to get that much.

That's right - they have a shitload of shysters on call to fuck people over at the drop of a hat. I would suggest you don't get in their gunsights.

[Cebu_4_2]

But to do that I still need to file a subpoena, I think I might do that for shits and giggles.

Don't fuck with a sleeping dog man...

[chad]

us bank did the exact same thing to me when i managed a couple of cds for an old neighbor. take the money and run. they can remain solvent longer than you can.

[Libertytree]

General, listen to the voices of reason here! You have bigger fishes to fry I'm sure.

[Glass]

Dachsie is good start. Get money. Then do documents. Then start private process against directors in their full personal commercial capacity. Put lien on their mercedes, bmwx, boats and mansions. Twist and make em sqeal for personal satisfaction and potential gain. Put boot on other foot and let them feel the swift kick of GoD.

Make it so they cant sell anything.

[palani]

my GUT tells me they committed fraud and were trying to take advantage of her

Standing requires an injury. Where is your injury? An intent while nasty is not something that is actionable upon. I might have gotten up this morning with an intent to commit a crime but thought better of it. Could I be prosecuted for a random thought?

[EE_]

Standing requires an injury. Where is your injury? An intent while nasty is not something that is actionable upon. I might have gotten up this morning with an intent to commit a crime but thought better of it. Could I be prosecuted for a random thought?

Depends...

Is your thought against the black race, a faggot, or a Jew...then yes it is a hate crime and actionable upon.

If your thought is against the white race, or Christianity, then no matter how nasty your intent is, unless there are actual damages, it is only a random thought and no action can be taken.

[palani]

Depends...

Is your thought against the black race, a faggot, or a Jew...then yes it is a hate crime and actionable upon.

That would require 1) a word or 2) an action. Things that are private remain private until they are made public.

1) and 2) are two of the three possible acts that can create a 'person'. It is the legal person that is prosecuted;i.e., actually doing something. Not doing something creates nothing (unless the not doing of something that is required in which case the not doing creates the person ... such as failing to register for the draft when you have accepted the free benefit of home delivery of mail).

http://i59.tinypic.com/fyo375.jpg

[Neuro]

I think you should also get interest for the two years your mother had the money in the CD without her approval, 15-20% per annum is reasonable IMO, or whatever it is the bank charges if you owe them money without a prior agreement and arrangement... They are clearly aware that they wronged your mother and are defensive about it. Offense is probably the best strategy now. Write them an e-mail and state that they probably have broken the law, but that you would be willing to settle this matter in good faith without contacting a lawyer, if your mother receives the penalty interest the bank normally applies to accounts in arrear, without any laws being broken. Probably your mother has a very good case here!

[Dachsie]

An intent while nasty is not something that is actionable upon

This thread seems to be going into "thread drift" and now we are talking about "hate crimes."

I guess I should not further the thread drift but I just wanted to say that while :intent" may not be the basic actionable "offense" U S hate laws give triple penalties to an action or offense that is judged to be motivated by "bias".

"Bias-Motivated Crime (Hate Crime) – Any violation of US law motivated by a politically incorrect bias such as “homophobia;” such a crime deserves triple penalties compared to the same crime committed for a random or more personal reason. (In many countries mere public criticism of federally protected groups is also a hate crime.) "

http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/adlstwistedhatedefinitionsdictionary.htm

[gunDriller]

Websuits work, if done correctly.

More so, if the company has a publicly traded stock.

I looked up US bank, it looks like they're private.

Anybody know a ticker symbol for US bank ?


I used the HP message board at Yahoo finance when HP bureaucracy was going berserk over a scanner + document feeder I returned for service.

I was exchanging emails with the President's office within 24 hours. Carly Fiorina.


If your credit rating or $$ or property is at stake and they're dicking you around - no mercy.

[Glass]

Yes thread drift is occuring. Intent is still key though. So long as the counter party develops the desired interpretation of your intent you are making progress. Their intent is to steal and ignore their clients distress, their own beliefs will influence their behaviour hapiness etc. Inthis situation you need to help them with their beliefs so they become more influenced by your beliefs and intentions. this is known as fear.

[gunDriller]

You can't win fighting a bank, trust me. Take the money and call it a great day, your lucky to get that much.

Depends on the definition of win.

You can expose their greed and avarice, and send customers running for the nearest truly good alternative. A rare commodity, but there may still be some better, or less bad, banks left.

But getting money from them via litigation ? Very unlikely if pursued as an individual.


I think JP Morgan Chase has created a legit cause of action via robbery of customers associated with their "Chase Freedom" customers.

If you steal $10 each month from each of 5 million customers, for a year, that's $600 Million. The numbers are approximate.

Those are also the kind of numbers that interest class action attorneys.

Part of the trick is bringing together a small group of customers enough to make it interesting to a class action attorney. They like low-hanging fruit.


I would bet money (or my time) that a web forum can be used to bring that fruit closer to the attorney, to increase the chances of a class action occurring.

I know a complex litigation lady attorney that I have been meaning to re-contact, to tell her about JP Morgan's specific practices.

But I don't have the time to do all this just now. It is an interesting subject though.



If your credit rating or $$ or property is at stake and they're dicking you around - no mercy.

Just noticed my choice of words.

How come you guys never talk about dick-stabbing anymore, especially in this context ?