Silver down some more?...................... V

[Ponce]

OK, Anyone knows why is silver down .44 cents all at once........it really doesn't matter to me that much but I still like to learn how things work and why.

V

[midnight rambler]

Just ask CrazyCat, he/she will explain it all to you in homoerotic terms (top sucks bottom, etc.).

[Cebu_4_2]

I sold a majority a couple years ago @ 35.00 and felt if I could have waited I would have gotten more.

[palani]

Specie is down because petroleum products are down. Or maybe it is the other way around. In any event PMs and oil are pegged to each other.

[Cebu_4_2]

They are dropping oil in an attempt to keep the petro dollar from the abyss.

[palani]

Isn't an election on the horizon?

[Cebu_4_2]

2016?

[midnight rambler]

That certainly has a lot to do with it. Gotta keep the rubes from seeing the endgame.

[madfranks]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

[palani]

Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

Or for that matter you might have sold your stash and bought back half of it for twice the money. Life is a crap shoot.

[palani]

2016?
Midterms. Democrats have to show they can cut the cheese.

[gunDriller]

http://traderdannorcini.blogspot.com/

Norcini does a good job of explaining what's tracking with what, and (some of) what's moving the market.

He goes out of his way, as if he were paid to do so, to deride the GIAMATT crowd - his term for people who see that the market is sometimes manipulated.


It's like talking about unicorns. I've never met a GIAMATT'er.

You guys don't say that gold is manipulated all the time - just that it's manipulated some of the time.


I think it's sort of funny how Silver is taking the brunt of the beating they're trying to give Gold. You can't beat Gold down so you beat down Silver. Driving the ratio up to 70+, haven't seen it there since about 2003/2004 though maybe it has been there other times.

It's like a WIERD comedy starring central bankers & the Strong Dollar Policy.


Norcini says the Euro is taking a major beating, sending the dollar up.

[Ponce]

The harder that they hold silver down the higher that it will go up later on.

V

[expat4ever]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

Yep, seems like the way to have played this was lets say a 10k uinvestment and you buy 1000 oz'es at 10.
Sell at 45 or so for 45,000 then short SLV and double up again. Hindsight is awesome :). Right now could be stting on 90k to buy in again. Today you buy buy about 5000 oz'es and do it again. Thats how the big money makes money but of course they already know whats going to happen so no risk for them.

[gunDriller]

Yep, seems like the way to have played this was lets say a 10k uinvestment and you buy 1000 oz'es at 10.
Sell at 45 or so for 45,000 then short SLV and double up again. Hindsight is awesome :).

i think it's possible to boil the hindsight down.

selling when the price is 20% or more above the 200 DMA.

buying when the price is 20% or more below the 200 DMA.

keeping track of costs of production so you know how much of what your spending is basically going to a 'speculation premium'.

[EE_]

In 20 years the next bull market in precious metals should begin.
After that we're all going to be living on easy street and eating steak every night!

Ponce won't have to eat fast food specials, Chinese all you can eat buffets and shop at the Goodwill stores anymore.
He'll be able to set his thermostat at 78 degrees in the winter and heat the whole damn house.

[Cebu_4_2]

Who the hell is Ponce?

[gunDriller]

Who the hell is Ponce?

the man on one of the coins in the new Gentile United States, perhaps, where there are no Jews in the banking system. sort of like North Dakota.

but for that to happen we need a pic.

[Hitch]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

I agree, what a bum deal. I think you mods need to remove the ticker from the website, I'd rather not even know at this point. Call me when a rocket launches.

I bet Chad bought a bunch of silver lately. Damn you!

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

Think of how many people bought in back in 2011 at $50. Hindsight sucks especially hard in the metals market.

[Cebu_4_2]

Think of how many people bought in back in 2011 at $50. Hindsight sucks especially hard in the metals market.

Chasing the old runaway train...

[steyr_m]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

That's why I tuned out the "to the moon" quotes a few years ago

[Ponce]

Ponce <----------- sitting in the train in first class and looking out the window at the little ants running around trying to find something.........it is a good life......."May I please have another glass of cold milk"...thank you.

V

[old steel]

No one should have that kind of control.

What would it require to take down the Federal Reserve?

[Ponce]

"Be ready for all and you will be afraid of none".....but......"To be ready is not".....Ponce

There is always something to improve or something to buy.....I have been getting ready for the past 15 and I still working on it........I'll probably get killed the very first day, but it wont be because I didn't try to play a good game.

V

[optionT]

The metals market is dead, unfortunately. The blow off top was 2011 and should've gotten out then. Like someone said earlier, the next bull market will be in another 20 to 30 years.

[Spectrism]

Ponce-the -oh-so-smug, news flash just came in.... there is a recall on all toilet paper manufactured before May 2012. It is infected with an ass-rash virus that activates with age. Any toilet paper that is more than 16 months old is now hazardous to your ass. For the recall, they are requiring people to burn all old toilet paper and not bring it back to the stores. The toilet paper consulting expert said this should not affect many people, only a few crazy codgers.

[expat4ever]

At these levels I'm a buyer. I started buying at 11. I bought up to 20 during the last run up.. I didnt sell at 49. I bought at 34 on the way down. I bought more at 22. At these levels I am buying a lot more when I have extra money to store in savings. At the end of the day my DCA is still way below 20. I didnt buy much at higher levels but always said if it got back below 20 I was going to load up a lot more. Nows the time, for me anyway. Will it go to 4? I have no idea but if it does and I can buy at that level I will buy so much that my DCA will be very very low :).. My silver stack will make Ponces TP stack look small in comparison :).

[Ponce]

No wonder my ass was itchin (?) but remember, the average of my silver is of $5.16..........I can live with that hahahahahah.

V

[expat4ever]

The metals market is dead, unfortunately. The blow off top was 2011 and should've gotten out then. Like someone said earlier, the next bull market will be in another 20 to 30 years.

I disagree. I also dont think the dollar is going to remane strong for very long.

[Cebu_4_2]

I disagree. I also dont think the dollar is going to remane strong for very long.

I don't either but I know a barrel of oil wont reflect at the local pumps. We should be at 65¢ but are at 3.09 a gallon. Someone is making a killing.

[old steel]

http://www.castanet.net/content/2014/4/cstc-logo_p2727283.jpg

[Serpo]

The coming move to $100 is what silver investors need to focus on, instead of believing that the current price in any way reflects the underlying physical market:


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/10/1_Final_Push_Down_In_Silver_To_Set_Up_Massive_Surg e_Above_$100.html (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/10/1_Final_Push_Down_In_Silver_To_Set_Up_Massive_Surg e_Above_$100.html)

[Ponce]

OK, up .40 cents.....has not done that in a long time...........recovery time?

V

[Neuro]

The metals market is dead, unfortunately. The blow off top was 2011 and should've gotten out then. Like someone said earlier, the next bull market will be in another 20 to 30 years.
Not a blow off top in 2011. 2011 was the right side of the cup in the cup and handle formation that started in 1980, we are probably getting close to the low of the handle now, and in another 2-3 years it is a complete cup and handle formation at $50, after which it is rockets to da mooooon! There has never been a better time to buy silver than now (apart from maybe a few weeks later when it may trade at $15), if you can hold on for let's say 5-6 years.

Myself I sold almost all my silver between $38-46 for cash dollar and gold in 2011 before the peak. and bought back at $27-28, a few months later, which in retrospect was way to early. Believe it or not, but yours and others resignation at this point is one of the most important BUY signals. Same resignation in 2008 as silver hit and rebounded at $8.50. I think we are close to the bottom now, but it may have one or two sharp legs down more over the next few weeks.

[Neuro]

No wonder my ass was itchin

Ponce's ass is itching! Folks, the BUY signal is in! No time to wait! ;D

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

The metals market is dead, unfortunately. The blow off top was 2011 and should've gotten out then. Like someone said earlier, the next bull market will be in another 20 to 30 years.

Maybe the paper metals market. The physical market will eventually disconnect and the nominal price won't mean a thing.

[Ponce]

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it" and holding paper you then hold nothing, keeping your physical in a bank you then hold nothing, I am only a little guy but soon I'll be a BIG guy........hail Ponce......again, hail Ponce hahahaahahhaah.

V

[gunDriller]

Not a blow off top in 2011. 2011 was the right side of the cup in the cup and handle formation that started in 1980, we are probably getting close to the low of the handle now, and in another 2-3 years it is a complete cup and handle formation at $50, after which it is rockets to da mooooon! There has never been a better time to buy silver than now (apart from maybe a few weeks later when it may trade at $15), if you can hold on for let's say 5-6 years.

Myself I sold almost all my silver between $38-46 for cash dollar and gold in 2011 before the peak. and bought back at $27-28, a few months later, which in retrospect was way to early. Believe it or not, but yours and others resignation at this point is one of the most important BUY signals. Same resignation in 2008 as silver hit and rebounded at $8.50. I think we are close to the bottom now, but it may have one or two sharp legs down more over the next few weeks.


i look forward to the day when i could spend more time studying details like physical availability.

however, i don't think that recent anecdotes like Bill Haynes' (he used to do the Metal Wrap with Eric King and Dan Norcini) about an order for 1 ton of Gold, from a medium wealthy private client, about $40 Million, are fake.

multiply that by dozens of big dealers and thousands of small dealers and well ... that's a lot.


from watching Provident's order-numbering system, i could tell that about 2000 orders were placed between 8:30 AM Eastern and 5:30 PM Eastern. 250 orders per hour.

i don't know the size of the orders, but that's a lot of orders !


there's a lot of people that understand the fake-ness of American money, and are buying Gold & Silver.


What we are seeing now seems unusual, anomalous, odd. Yes the USD index is strong, the Euro is crap/ quicksand.

In 2008, October 31 the low occurred. $681 for Gold, $8.30 (?) for Silver. Last day of the month, the classic 'raid behavior', documented by Harvey Organ.

I think sentiment now was better than then. Back in April 2008, Silver was $20. I had just bought about 225 silver dollars. Then prices dropped about 55%. But that was OK, no major heartburn.


Anyway, my feeling is that the bounce back in prices will occur in the next month or 2, if it didn't start this morning.

The sight of money pouring into the market is like the sight of money pouring out of the market. The curves are sort of like mirror images.

We have 4% down day yesterday.

In our future now, we have a 4% up day for Silver.

I think it is a cosmic thing, maybe. :)


OK now I have to eat my vegetables.


One other thought - MF Global was a precious metals default, dressed up as a Jon Corzine fvck-up, followed by his wierd 'Get out of Jail Free' treatment.

Clients got fvcked to the extent of $1 Billion+. All for commodity accounts. If half of that was for PM accounts, e.g. Gerald whats his name that Eric King interviews, he lost about $100K that was there to support metal purchases.

So there's a PM default that just walked right on by a few years ago.

I think we'll see more of those. ABN Amro (first quarter 2013, right before the April smash down) etc.


I'm just amazed at how much bullshit the American investor puts up with.

The $4.4 million Morgan Stanley settlement was highly publicized. charging customers storage fees for non-existent PM's. the 2nd largest investment bank.

they settled in cash for the PM's MS was supposed to have bought.

how much Precious Metals will 4.4 million pay to store ? I would guess AT LEAST 220 million. that's thinking MS charged some rape-the-customer storage fee.

so that's 220 million of physical that customers bought, that MS did not deliver. caught with their pants down.


you would have to be really obsessed to add up all these incidents, the confiscation-equivalent of MF Global, the implications of the MS settlement.

i think what we're watching now is historical. there's way more debt now, way more money created, a way shakier economy. etc.

investor sentiment can be like a teenage girl's fancy. one day Dustin Bieber is 'in', the next day he is Walking Herpes Incarnate.


i believe the numbers are, .01% of investor dollars, invested in Silver, would be a massive $ inflow into silver that results in the Silver Rockets' being right for a while.

[Sparky]

It's depressing. Who would have thought a couple years ago you could have sold your entire stash of silver, held fiat, and today buy-back in and double your holdings?

All the people who sold at $40-$50.

[mick silver]

last time oil was down like this it was in 2007 when no one was working and money was tighter . could this be the start of a down market . the price of every thing has went way up and their trying to kill everyone in texas

[woodman]

last time oil was down like this it was in 2007 when no one was working and money was tighter . could this be the start of a down market . the price of every thing has went way up and their trying to kill everyone in texas

I keep on wondering how this ebola thing is going to play out. If it becomes even marginally endemic in western countries then it will consume enormous resources and the economy will suffer accordingly. It could very well be the event that pushes us over the edge and ushers in not only full fledged depression but an even harsher form of political and social tyranny than what we have experienced from the 9/11 attacks. The social planners (aka elite scum) are drooling over this. From chaos, order. Their order, that is.

What will commodities do? Silver in particular? Damned if I know, but it probably will be good for the Ubers. Main thing is, your preps will come in handy.

[Spectrism]

The cost of ebola is already enormous. Fear of ebola will be huge. People get flu... and will not work. People will avoid public places. All you need is for a case to pop up here and there... and the terror will multiply.

Actually wipe out much of the population and prices of everything will drop. Then. availability will become the challenge.

One thing I am fairly certain of... hell is breaking loose. Not sure of all the forms, but it will show its ugly face to all.

[Ponce]

Who cares about cash, silver, gold, art, or anything when everyone will die from the Ebola?......is anyone selling their silver cheap? or their hide away rolls of toilet paper?.

V

[Ponce]

My silver, my silver, my beutifull shinny little coins....they are still going downnnnnnnn..........I sure would like to learn the why of it, I always like to learn how things work.

V

[Glass]

There is a large pool of gold coming onto the market at the moment. Some number of metric tons spread out over ~ 1 year. I think about 65 MT from memory. As silver is tied by ratio to gold perhaps this is having the depressing affect on PM prices. All the gold needs to be assayed. Don't know how long that takes to do but it should be coming through about now. Settlement in Euros as well.

[Serpo]

Bo Polny is saying its a triple bottom ,today basically,and that the bear market is over,it was extended for 30 days.

Expect an up day today ,basically a price reversal.

It would be nice.

Triple bottom in HUI,GLD,GOLD

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

We're currently in the midst of the third longest silver bear run. Nothing goes down forever. The dollar is at a 52 week high which makes the metals cheaper along with oil. None of this is sustainable. That's what I tell myself anyway.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6851&stc=1

[gunDriller]

None of this is sustainable. That's what I tell myself anyway.

The US is the world's most active Terrorist nation. Literally going around the Earth killing civilians, at the command of the world's most hated demographic group, the Jews.

Also, printing money. and the rest of the world accepts it.


normally, if you had a relationship with an abusive person, and they printed up some paper-that-looks-like-currency, you wouldn't treat them like The King.

but that's what the rest of the world does.


certainly it's not sustainable.


but maybe the World prefers the certainty of an abusive relationship to the possible chaos and economic uncertainty of a world where the US $ is treated as it is, fancy printed worthless paper.

until then, heck, look what can be bought with those FRN's !

[EE_]

The US is the world's most active Terrorist nation. Literally going around the Earth killing civilians, at the command of the world's most hated demographic group, the Jews.

Also, printing money. and the rest of the world accepts it.


normally, if you had a relationship with an abusive person, and they printed up some paper-that-looks-like-currency, you wouldn't treat them like The King.

but that's what the rest of the world does.


certainly it's not sustainable.


but maybe the World prefers the certainty of an abusive relationship to the possible chaos and economic uncertainty of a world where the US $ is treated as it is, fancy printed worthless paper.

until then, heck, look what can be bought with those FRN's !

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/sites/default/files/images/u14439/dollar%20backed.jpg

[Ponce]

No matter how low silver goes it will always be worth more than the green back and you (me) will always have something to live with.

V

[TRUTHseekr]

http://www.pinnacledigest.com/sites/default/files/images/u14439/dollar%20backed.jpg

Terror, blood money?....oh wait that's just a harmless little helicopter for the airshow kids, now smile and say sand cakes! sarc/

[Sparky]

There is a large pool of gold coming onto the market at the moment. Some number of metric tons spread out over ~ 1 year. I think about 65 MT from memory. As silver is tied by ratio to gold perhaps this is having the depressing affect on PM prices. All the gold needs to be assayed. Don't know how long that takes to do but it should be coming through about now. Settlement in Euros as well.

So then why is the price up so much today? :D

Prices get pushed around by market "operators", as they are called. The long term price of anything is determined by supply and demand fundamentals. Along the way, the price is pushed around by operators trying to take advantage of investor emotion. In today's leveraged markets, if you have a million dollars, you can sell $20 million of something that you don't even own, in order to impact investor sentiment. This drives price down. Eventually, when sentiment gets bad enough, price can continue to go down based on fear. When selling is exhausted, the operators buy the shares they "owe" at a bargain price, realizing a profit. (Sell something you don't own at $25, then buy it for "delivery" at $15.)

When this process gets overplayed, it flips in the other direction. It's hard to know when that point has been reached. It's usually after a large "exhaustion" move when all the sellers have played their last chips, and need to reverse the game.

[gunDriller]

When this process gets overplayed, it flips in the other direction. It's hard to know when that point has been reached. It's usually after a large "exhaustion" move when all the sellers have played their last chips, and need to reverse the game.

MAYBE one indicator that today's move is more a profit-taking/short-covering move, is the very lukewarm response of the HUI gold index.

Some traders credit the HUI with 'tea-leaf' credentials.

A big HUI move today (up) would indicate that we had a long-term trend reversal, e.g. that the $16.70 silver/ $1185 Gold we saw (briefly) is 'the bottom'.

A lukewarm HUI move today says that the trend is still down. So sayeth/ observeth some traders.


Of course, this could be a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy. If the traders program their computers to continue short because they see the HUI not ratifying today's price pop ... like I said, self-fulfilling prophecy.

Of course the Cartel could attack the HUI specifically, because they know that traders use it as an indicator.


It's like a fvcking Hall of Mirrors.

http://www.martialartsactionmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/mirror-scene.jpg

[Sparky]

MAYBE one indicator that today's move is more a profit-taking/short-covering move, is the very lukewarm response of the HUI gold index.

Some traders credit the HUI with 'tea-leaf' credentials.

A big HUI move today (up) would indicate that we had a long-term trend reversal, e.g. that the $16.70 silver/ $1185 Gold we saw (briefly) is 'the bottom'.

A lukewarm HUI move today says that the trend is still down. So sayeth/ observeth some traders.

...


The HUI was up 2% today on gold's 1.4% rise. Do you consider that lukewarm? Also, GDX (biggest mining ETF) was up 2.5%.

I do agree that we have no indication that today was the beginning of a reversal. In particular, we need to see a follow-through rise, and increasing volume.

[Sparky]

The HUI was up 2% today on gold's 1.4% rise. Do you consider that lukewarm? Also, GDX (biggest mining ETF) was up 2.5%.

I do agree that we have no indication that today was the beginning of a reversal. In particular, we need to see a follow-through rise, and increasing volume.

Okay, now today looks more like a reversal. HUI up 7.5% on high volume trading, with a fundamental trigger (Fed minutes came out dovish against raising interest rates). So the price spread and volume were both much bigger today. Would still like to see some follow through for the rest of this week, i.e. weekly prices on Friday ending above today's high prices (gold $1225/ silver $17.58/ HUI 202 / GDX $22.16).

[Serpo]

The BULL is BACK.........