Student Loan Debt Bubble

[Serpo]

The Student Loan Debt Bubble In America Is Spiraling Out Of Control, And It Is Financially Crippling An Entire Generation Of Young Americans.
October 8th, 2014
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By Michael Snyder (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states)
http://endoftheamericandream.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Student-Loan-Debt-300x300.jpg
The student loan debt bubble in America is spiraling out of control, and it is financially crippling an entire generation of young Americans. At this point, the grand total of student loan debt in the United States has reached a staggering 1.2 trilliondollars, and an all-time record high 40 million Americans are currently paying off student loan debts. Just when our young people should be planning on buying homes and starting families, they find themselves financially paralyzed by oppressive levels of debt. What makes all of this even worse is that only some of our college graduates are able to get the “good jobs” that we promised them. So with limited job prospects and suffocating levels of debt, this generation of young Americans is increasingly putting off major life commitments such as buying a home and getting married. As a society, we really need to rethink how we are “educating” our young people, because what we are doing now is clearly not working. The following are 18 sobering facts about the unprecedented student loan debt crisis in the United States…
#1 According to the Wall Street Journal, the class of 2014 is “the most indebted ever (http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368/?mod=wsj_nview_latest&mg=blogs-wsj&url=http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.wsj.com%252Fnumbersgu y%252Fcongatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368%252F%253Fmod%253Dwsj_nview_latest)“…

As college graduates in the Class of 2014 prepare to shift their tassels and accept their diplomas, they leave school with one discouraging distinction: They’re the most indebted class ever.
The average Class of 2014 graduate with student-loan debt has to pay back some $33,000, according to an analysis of government datahttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://investmentwatchblog.com/18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states/#) by Mark Kantrowitz, publisher at Edvisors, a group of web sites about planning and paying for college. Even after adjusting for inflation that’s nearly double the amount borrowers had to pay back 20 years ago.
#2 In 1994, less than half of all college graduates left school with student loan debt. Today, it is over 70 percent (http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368/?mod=wsj_nview_latest&mg=blogs-wsj&url=http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.wsj.com%252Fnumbersgu y%252Fcongatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368%252F%253Fmod%253Dwsj_nview_latest).
#3 Approximately 15 percent of graduate and professionalhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://investmentwatchblog.com/18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states/#) school students leave school with student loan debt balances in the six figures (http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368/?mod=wsj_nview_latest&mg=blogs-wsj&url=http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.wsj.com%252Fnumbersgu y%252Fcongatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368%252F%253Fmod%253Dwsj_nview_latest).
#4 At this point, student loan debt has hit a grand total of 1.2 trillion dollars (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/personal-finance/burdened-record-amount-debt-graduates-delay-marriage-n219371) in the United States. That number has grown by about 84 percent (http://themostimportantnews.com/archives/40-million-americans-now-have-student-loan-debt) just since 2008.
#5 According to the Pew Research Center (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/05/14/young-adults-student-debt-and-economic-well-being/), nearly four out of every ten U.S. households that are led by someone under the age of 40 is paying off student loan debt right now.
#6 The median net worth of young households that have student loan debt is 20 percent lower (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/05/14/young-adults-student-debt-and-economic-well-being/) than the median net worth of young households that do not have any student loan debt and that are led by someone with only a high school education.
#7 Among college educated people, the median net worth of young households that do not have student loan debt is seven times higher (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/05/14/young-adults-student-debt-and-economic-well-being/) than the median net worth of young households that do have student loan debt.
#8 In 2008, approximately 29 million Americans were paying off student loan debts. Today, that number has ballooned to 40 million (http://themostimportantnews.com/archives/40-million-americans-now-have-student-loan-debt).
#9 Since 2005, student loan debt burdens have absolutely exploded while salaries for young college graduates have actually declined (http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368/?mod=wsj_nview_latest&mg=blogs-wsj&url=http%253A%252F%252Fblogs.wsj.com%252Fnumbersgu y%252Fcongatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368%252F%253Fmod%253Dwsj_nview_latest)…

The problem developing is that earnings and debt aren’t moving in the same direction. From 2005 to 2012, average student loan debt has jumped 35%, adjusting for inflation, while the median salary has actually dropped by 2.2%.
#10 According to CNN (http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/31/news/economy/minimum-wage-college-graduates/index.html?iid=HP_LN), 260,000 Americans with a college or professional degree made at or below the federal minimum wage last year.
#11 Even after accounting for inflation, the cost of college tuition increased by 275 percent (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-29/costbenefit-analysis-college-degree-one-chart) between 1970 and 2013.
#12 Debt for law school students has risen dramatically over the past decade or so (http://fortune.com/2014/02/24/why-do-so-many-people-hate-law-school/)…

J.D.s certainly don’t come cheap. It’s almost unheard of to attend law school without taking out significant loans. What’s more, the average debt load is mounting (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/average_debt_load_of_private_law_grads_is_125k_the se_five_schools_lead_to_m/): in 2001-2002, JDs borrowed on average $46,500 at public law schools and $70,000 at private law schools; by 2011, those numbers rose to $75,700 and $125,000, respectively.
#13 Last year it was being reported that 34.9 percent (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-29/student-loan-bubble-cracks-pulled-sallie-mae-bond-deal) of all student loan borrowers under the age of 30 are at least 90 days behind on their student loan payments.
#14 One survey found that 27 percent (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-09-06/student-loans-debt-for-life#p1) of those with student loan debt moved back in with their parents after college.
#15 Another survey found that 70 percent of all college graduates (http://www.businessinsider.com/hey-college-seniors-this-is-whats-happening-to-your-peers-when-they-try-to-find-jobs-2011-4#7-out-of-10-of-you-will-wish-you-had-prepared-more-for-the-real-world-during-school-1) wish that they had spent more time preparing for the “real world” while they were still in school.
#16 Student loan debt is causing many young Americans to delay getting married. The following is from a recent NBC News article (http://www.nbcnews.com/business/personal-finance/burdened-record-amount-debt-graduates-delay-marriage-n219371)…

While there is no specific data on student debt-related delays to marriage, a recent study (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/#gender-education-and-marriage) by the Pew Research Center shows that a record number of Americans have never married. The study found the median age at first marriage is now 27 for women and 29 for men. In 1960, the median age was 20 for women and 23 for men.
#17 Many Americans are not even using most of their student loan money to pay for college. Instead, many are using much of that money to pay bills or stock the fridge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-04/what-student-loans-are-really-used-depressing-case-studies)…

Take Ray Selent, a 30-year-old former retail clerk in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. He was unemployed in 2012 when he enrolled as a part-time student at Broward County’s community college.That allowed him to borrow thousands of dollars to pay rent to his mother, cover his cellphone bill and catch the occasional movie.
…
Tommie Matherne, a 32-year-old married father of five in Billings, Mont., has been going to school since 2010, when he realized the $10 an hour he was making as a mall security guard wasn’t covering his family’s expenses. He uses roughly $2,000 in student loans each year to stock his fridge and catch up on bills. His wife is a stay-at-home mother who also gets loans to take online courses.
“We’ve been taking whatever we can for student loans every year, taking whatever we have left over and using it to stock up the freezer just so we have a couple extra months where we don’t have to worry about food,” says Mr. Matherne, who owes $51,600 in federal loans.
Some students end up going deeper into debt. Early last year, when Denna Merritt lost her long-term unemployment benefits, the 49-year-old Indianapolis woman enrolled part-time at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh’s online programhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://investmentwatchblog.com/18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states/#), aiming for a degree in graphic design. She took out $15,000 in federal loans, $2,800 of which went to catch up on unpaid bills, including utilities, health-insurance premiums and cable.
“Obviously, it’s better not to use it that way if you can help it, because you’re just going to owe that much more later,” says Ms. Merritt, a former bookkeeper.
#18 Only 28 percent (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-05/what-americans-dont-know-about-student-loans-a-lot#r=most) of Americans know that the U.S. government can garnish wages and withhold tax refunds if student loan debts are not repaid.
It should come as no surprise that the delinquency rate on student loan debt in this country is far higher than the delinquency rate on mortgages, auto loans and credit card debt.
This is a financial bubble that gets worse with each passing year, and if we continue on our current course it is going to end very, very badly.



http://investmentwatchblog.com/18-sobering-facts-about-the-unprecedented-student-loan-debt-crisis-in-the-united-states/

[crimethink]

Americans have a choice: demand a debt jubilee, by any means necessary, or, accept permanent debt servitude.

[Cebu_4_2]

These supposed loans are exempt from bankruptcy also, which means if your broke you still have to keep paying. I don't think there is any way to get out of it.

[crimethink]

These supposed loans are exempt from bankruptcy also, which means if your broke you still have to keep paying. I don't think there is any way to get out of it.

There are a few ways, but they're extremely difficult.

[madfranks]

When the government constantly pushes everyone to go to college, guaranteeing loans for any amount, telling schools they can charge whatever they want because uncle sugar will make the loans, why would anyone think anything else than a massive distortion in this market would occur?

[zap]

Some of these kids are now in there late 30's and I know 1 or 10 of them that are not paying the loan and making a good living under the radar, most aren't getting married, but are in a committed relationship, they have a significant other with kids, put the home in his or her name along with cars, and keep all the money outta the bank, funny how you can do things if you have HALF a brain.

[Serpo]

The story was a while back that the government wants them in debt to them so when they take over as the Global Screw Up (GSU) and use them as debt slaves ,they want everyone in as much debt as possible ,then they have the control.

[PatColo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP8V9nXjIso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP8V9nXjIso


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_RYgkkmcM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_RYgkkmcM

[osoab]

The story was a while back that the government wants them in debt to them so when they take over as the Global Screw Up (GSU) and use them as debt slaves ,they want everyone in as much debt as possible ,then they have the control.

Not unless you want to completely capitulate.

1 Big Perk of Government Jobs (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/04/1-big-perk-of-government-jobs.aspx)



What the program does
Basically, after making 120 payments on your Federal student loans while under a qualified repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying public service organization, borrowers are eligible to have any remaining balances completely forgiven.

And, for lower-paying jobs that require advanced degrees, this amount can be quite large. For example, consider the case of a social worker with a Master's degree who graduates with $60,000 in student loan debt and earns the national average salary of about $41,500.

Well, under the Pay-As-You-Earn repayment plan (more on that later), this borrower's monthly payment would be just $200 per month, according to the repayment estimator (https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action#view-repayment-plans) on studentloans.gov. This isn't even enough to cover the interest on the loans. In other words, a borrower in this situation could actually see their balance remain the same, or even increase over time.

However, even if the loan balance swells to say, $70,000, it will be wiped clean after 10 years of on-time payments, provided the borrower works in a qualifying public service job.



That is a long time to spend on the hook.

[General of Darkness]

When I went to college at Cal State Los Angeles it was less that 3K a year back in 1987, what the fuck happened?

[osoab]

When I went to college at Cal State Los Angeles it was less that 3K a year back in 1987, what the fuck happened?

another scam

[Serpo]

But but this is the system..........how can it fail ......well it has and is......

The whole thing is another government scam but its perfect to keep the brightest young people in eternal servitude , plus they dont ask so many questions then .

[General of Darkness]

So I just did some quick numbers after looking up some things and taking text books out with CSULA, which I believe to be at the opposite spectrum of current bullshit education, and I mean that it's just a university, no football, etc no annoying bullshit going. The teachers were good and there were no distractions, it was great for me, but how the fuck does THIS scenario happen, an average of 8% a year. Two years ago a guy I worked with was spending 60K a year here from CA to send his kid to school in Michigan, I know that includes meals and housing but WTF.



School
Year
Annual Tuition


CSULA
1987
$ 1,800.00



2012
$ 5,472.00







Increase

204%


Years

25


AVG Increase
8%

[PatColo]

When I went to college at Cal State Los Angeles it was less that 3K a year back in 1987, what the fuck happened?

I did the first 2 years at community college in the mid 80s; credits fully transferable to the CSU or UC systems. I don't recall the fee structure perfectly, but it was like $50 fee plus some nominal fee per unit, maybe $10? So a full 15 unit (5 class) load was about $200 in fees, and then add books, and the used book market was healthy so you'd pay 1/2 - 2/3 the face value of books. So all told you were looking at maybe $3-500 per semester, minus whatever pittance you got for reselling your books to the bookstore at the end.

Then transfered to CSU (Sacto & later S.Fran); flat fee plus per unit came to more like $1000-1200 per semester for full 15 units, plus the books routine. Degree says CSU San Fran, no indication that the first 2 years was done at community college.

So let's call 2 full time years @ comm college @ $800 per year ($400 x 2 semesters); $1600.

Then 2 FT years at CSU @ $3000/year, = $6000.

So total expense for a 4-year CSU bachelors circa mid-late '80s = about $7600.

IIRC, the more prestigious UC system at that time was around $5000 per semester for full class load, before books. So imagining all 4 years in the UC system at ~$11,000/year, = $44,000. Do first 2 years @ CC for $1600 then transfer to UC, cost ~$23,600... for a "world class" UC bachelors degree.

^ none of the above accounts for room/board cost during those 4 years, which we could crudely estimate at $1000/month (x 4 years = $48K)... nor does it address the "opportunity cost" of instead spending the same 4 years working a $10/hour job (20K/year gross before taxes), which would gross $80K over 4 years.

As to Stanford's cost at that same time frame; about $20K rings a bell... don't quote me on that-- they use the quarter system, not semester. Current undergrad tuition = $13,750 per quarter (https://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/registrar/students/tuition-fees_12-13), which times 3 quarters/year, = $41,500/year. So a current 4 year Stanford undergrad degree = about $166K, before books. :o Plus room/board in Palo Alto = top dollar.... esp the "room" part! (http://www.zillow.com/palo-alto-ca/apartments/)

[PatColo]

School
Year
Annual Tuition


CSULA
1987
$ 1,800.00



2012
$ 5,472.00









































I was in CSU in '87, I guess that $1800/year ($900/semester) cost could be correct; my memory is rusty, but imagining $1800/year is correct, then adjust my CSU numbers above accordingly. Same ballpark anyways!

[General of Darkness]

I did the first 2 years at community college in the mid 80s; credits fully transferable to the CSU or UC systems. I don't recall the fee structure perfectly, but it was like $50 fee plus some nominal fee per unit, maybe $10? So a full 15 unit (5 class) load was about $200 in fees, and then add books, and the used book market was healthy so you'd pay 1/2 - 2/3 the face value of books. So all told you were looking at maybe $3-500 per semester, minus whatever pittance you got for reselling your books to the bookstore at the end.

Then transfered to CSU (Sacto & later S.Fran); flat fee plus per unit came to more like $1000-1200 per semester for full 15 units, plus the books routine. Degree says CSU San Fran, no indication that the first 2 years was done at community college.

So let's call 2 full time years @ comm college @ $800 per year ($400 x 2 semesters); $1600.

Then 2 FT years at CSU @ $3000/year, = $6000.

So total expense for a 4-year CSU bachelors circa mid-late '80s = about $7600.

IIRC, the more prestigious UC system at that time was around $5000 per semester for full class load, before books. So imagining all 4 years in the UC system at ~$11,000/year, = $44,000. Do first 2 years @ CC for $1600 then transfer to UC, cost ~$23,600... for a "world class" UC bachelors degree.

^ none of the above accounts for room/board cost during those 4 years, which we could crudely estimate at $1000/month (x 4 years = $48K)... nor does it address the "opportunity cost" of instead spending the same 4 years working a $10/hour job (20K/year gross before taxes), which would gross $80K over 4 years.

As to Stanford's cost at that same time frame; about $20K rings a bell... don't quote me on that-- they use the quarter system, not semester. Current undergrad tuition = $13,750 per quarter (https://studentaffairs.stanford.edu/registrar/students/tuition-fees_12-13), which times 3 quarters/year, = $41,500/year. So a current 4 year Stanford undergrad degree = about $166K. :o

You and I are pretty fucking close on our numbers from back in the day.

What I'm seeing more of now, at least from the smarter parents, they'll have their kids go to good community colleges that they can transfer credits from. Pasadena City College is very very good, BUT what's interesting is that to attend you have to be a Pasadena resident. So what the fuck do the chinks do, work around the system. So EVERY FUCKING DAY when I'm getting off the freeway there's a line about 1/4 mile long to get off the freeway. My PA on my truck snapped off for the second time so I can't use it, but I basically use to cut everyone off and say, "NONE of you fuckers are from Pasadena, get the fuck out of my way", and they did. Actually they had no choice

[crimethink]

http://californiacommunitycolleges.cccco.edu/PolicyInAction/KeyFacts.aspx

California Community Colleges Fee History:
Fiscal Year

Fee (per unit)
1984-85 $5*
1991-92 $6
1993-94 $10
1994-95 $13
1998-99 $12
1999-00 $11
2003-04 $18
2004-05 $26
2006-07 $20
2009-10 $26
2011-12 $36
Summer 2012 $46
*Prior to 1984, community colleges
charged no fee

Part of the "need" for increased fees involves extravagant spending by the CCCs. Our local CC purchased leather (not pleather) chairs for a conference room a few years back, amidst California's continuing budgetary problems. When students attempted to sit in them, a security goon told them to get out of the room, "official use only" (they were borrowing the room for an impromptu meeting outside of their classroom next door, with instructor approval).

The other "need" involves paying for the horde of illegals flooding this state. Illegals are eligible for the CCC Board of Governors (BOG) Waiver, which waives payment of tuition and most fees. Someone has to pay for that. You, citizen, do.


http://icanaffordcollege.com/en-us/financialaidinfo/dreamact.aspx

[crimethink]

CSU & UC Systems Tuition:

http://www.calstate.edu/budget/fybudget/2012-2013/documentation/13-historical-suf-rates.shtml

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2012/07/18/csu-and-uc-tuition-hikes-over-time/


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Ai_7jS90j6v-dGhpNHpNZm5yOTZtQnZ1dUJKMDBYdmc&oid=4&zx=94yrfvd7w049 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0Ai_7jS90j6v-dDVwSXc5RXVrVE5DLTRLWkdzX1YzcFE&oid=2&zx=i8pn5as5rty0

[crimethink]

Pasadena City College is very very good, BUT what's interesting is that to attend you have to be a Pasadena resident.

Anyone can apply to any California Community College. If you are over 18 and/or a high school graduate, you are essentially guaranteed admission. Non-California residents get whacked with much higher tuition, but that can be avoided if you're an illegal who went to a California high school.

http://www.pasadena.edu/admissions/apply/who.cfm

Non-resident fees: http://www.pasadena.edu/admissions/fees/

Illegal Invader Tuition Avoidance Process: https://dream.csac.ca.gov/

[PatColo]

You and I are pretty fucking close on our numbers from back in the day.

It occurs to me now where I'm mixing up my memory of the CSU cost numbers. Long story short I "dropped out" of CSU Sacto after a semester, and spent the first 1/2+ of my 20s doing service jobs, but for pretty righteous pay might I add. Mostly bellhopping/doorman at a posh SF hotel... knowhatamean? Over 1/2 the guys I worked with were 30-60yo parents supporting families. I saved my coin and bought a little SF condo in '94 for $95K, sold in '99 for $166K. :)

Picked up again at SF State in '95 through '97, when fees were in the $1100/semester area.

What does my degree say on it? Social Science: Criminal Justice... LOLz. From SFSU, surely one of the leading cultural marxist indoctination centers in the country... and I kept up a high GPA there too.... I surely learned how to regurgitate that spew on the exams! I'm still deprogramming! (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?78250-anti-cultural-marxist-multiculti-White-preservationist-podcasts) :D Did I ever "use my degree?" Take a guess!! Though granted, as I told many at the time, I didn't expect to "use" it; merely wanted to finish off and get an official piece of paper to show for all the college work I'd begun in the mid/late 80s.

[General of Darkness]

Anyone can apply to any California Community College. If you are over 18 and/or a high school graduate, you are essentially guaranteed admission. Non-California residents get whacked with much higher tuition, but that can be avoided if you're an illegal who went to a California high school.

http://www.pasadena.edu/admissions/apply/who.cfm

Non-resident fees: http://www.pasadena.edu/admissions/fees/

Illegal Invader Tuition Avoidance Process: https://dream.csac.ca.gov/

Didn't use to be that way and I don't know when it changed. However I still will fuck with the slant eyed jews every time I get off the freeway.

[crimethink]

It occurs to me now where I'm mixing up my memory of the CSU cost numbers. Long story short I "dropped out" of CSU Sacto after a semester, and spent the first 1/2+ of my 20s doing service jobs, but for pretty righteous pay might I add. Mostly bellhopping/doorman at a posh SF hotel... knowhatamean? Over 1/2 the guys I worked with were 30-60yo parents supporting families. I saved my coin and bought a little SF condo in '94 for $95K, sold in '99 for $166K. :)

Picked up again at SF State in '95 through '97, when fees were in the $1100/semester area.

What does my degree say on it? Social Science: Criminal Justice... LOLz. From SFSU, surely one of the leading cultural marxist indoctination centers in the country... and I kept up a high GPA there too.... I surely learned how to regurgitate that spew on the exams! I'm still deprogramming! (http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?78250-anti-cultural-marxist-multiculti-White-preservationist-podcasts) :D Did I ever "use my degree?" Take a guess!! Though granted, as I told many at the time, I didn't expect to "use" it; merely wanted to finish off and get an official piece of paper to show for all the college work I'd begun in the mid/late 80s.

I lived in Rocklin/Sacramento/Citrus Heights 1996-2003. :)

My undergrad is just as useless as yours, LOL. Anthropology & Political Science. Only two classes actually meant something: Western Political Thought, and Speech Communication (the professors made the difference). However, I did use the opportunity to leave California for a few years. Sac State was the other option; too many non-Whites, though.

[crimethink]

Didn't use to be that way and I don't know when it changed.

I believe the mid- to late-80s. I think the individual CCs had more control over their local policies until "coordination" from Sacramento. I attended San Joaquin Delta College 1988-1991, and it was "open to anyone" over 18 then, per CCC policy.

[PatColo]

I lived in Rocklin/Sacramento/Citrus Heights 1996-2003. :)

My undergrad is just as useless as yours, LOL. Anthropology & Political Science. Only two classes actually meant something: Western Political Thought, and Speech Communication (the professors made the difference). However, I did use the opportunity to leave California for a few years. Sac State was the other option; too many non-Whites, though.

I don't completely curse my college edumukation either. Despite some multi-cult/marxist classes/prof's, the criminal justice concentration aspect did in fact wrench my worldview a bit, in a direction I still can't argue with today. Like you said, it was the profs... irish-american gentiles in the case of my CJ program. One was in his 2nd carreer after being an NYPD cop. The curriculum was centered around political-economy. I was left with a profound appreciation for the importance of socio-economic class in the USA, something the Brits and even New Englanders have long taken more for granted than I did, or was the norm, in the West where the "social mobility" dream was more alive. The police, (criminal) court and prison systems as "managing and warehousing the poor, or surplus labor force." How the greatest threat to my (economic) wellbeing came from ABOVE on the economic ladder, not BELOW. Think, Fed vs the petty street thief. But NO, we didn't study the Fed/etc, lol. I did a very enlightening few month internship in the SF county jail(s). Mine was the last SFSU CJ class to tour San Quentin prison... new warden didn't like the idea, and ceased allowing it.

So I think the inate cynicism about "the system" I graduated with, served me well since. My mind was fertile, and "more ready" to wake up to 911 for example, earlier than most who are now awake (Dec '03 for me). That CJ/political-economy program had already done some "cherished delusion shattering", so I had less far to travel in exploring the rabbit hole and accepting many unpleasant realities,, than most who I've banged my head on the wall trying to wake up since. But at least I can halfway appreciate where they're coming from, the delusions they don't want to part ways with. :)

The Social Sciences chair at SFSU when I was there was a jooo-hooo, sort of a shorter/plumper Woody Allen looking guy, same thick glasses and all. I had several (non-CJ) courses from him, and yes he's who I'm thinking of when I ref the cultural marxist aspects of that program. Go figure. And I wasn't "joo-wise" in the slightest back then; prolly more of a clueless philo-ShlomoIte if anything. It's 20:20 hindsight now through the lens my new joo-wise worldview, that I now understand that aspect of my college daze, and how society generally, works.

I've often imagined, if those Irish CJ profs I mentioned above were to teach the classes under sodium-pentathol and with no dept chairs/admins to gag them; would they teach the class, "It's dajooz, stupidz!! Damn jooz!!"


http://i.imgur.com/viTCzIq.gif

[Twisted Titan]

There are a few ways, but they're extremely difficult.

There are a few ways,but they're extremely bloody.

Fixed it for ya.

[crimethink]

There are a few ways,but they're extremely bloody.

Fixed it for ya.

Nah, the ones I were referring to are "legal." But I do appreciate your thinking, LOL.