Probate in the USA

[Glass]

I'd like to discuss this. I think someone said recently they did this but not sure if it was in the USA.

What I really want to know about is for intestate people. Does anyone know what the US Govt take is?

Please PM if you don't want to post here. This is a public thread ATM.

Otherwise any one who's been through an intestate probate process in the US, any tips etc would be appreciated.

[PatColo]

"intestate" is a new word on me. You titled the thread with the more common "probate", same thing I guess, dying with net assets & no Will. Off hand I've just always heard it's a big mistake coz lawyers.gov have it rigged so that they're paid handsomely and anything left over gets distributed to a defined set of family heirs.




Intestacy - Ziopedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy)


Intestacy is the condition of the estate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_%28law%29) of a person who dies owning property greater than the sum of their enforceable debts and funeral expenses without having made a valid will (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%28law%29) or other binding declaration. Alternatively this may also apply where a will or declaration has been made, but only applies to part of the estate, the remaining estate forms the "Intestate Estate."

Intestacy law, also referred to as the law of descent and distribution, refers to the body of law (statutory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute) and case law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_law)) that determines who is entitled to the property from the estate under the rules of inheritance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance).

Contents





1 History and the common law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#History_and_the_common_law)


2 Current law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#Current_law)



2.1 United Kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#United_Kingdom)



2.1.1 England and Wales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#England_and_Wales)


2.1.2 Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#Scotland)




2.2 United States and Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#United_States_and_Canada)




3 Rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#Rules)


4 See also (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#See_also)


5 Notes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#Notes)


6 References (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestacy#References)








PPJ Gazzette (http://ppjg.me/) posts many articles & podcasts dealing with elder/estate abuse. Podcasts: http://ppjg.me/tag/ts-radio

subject tags: Corrupt courts (http://ppjg.me/category/corrupt-courts-2/), corruption (http://ppjg.me/category/government/corruption-government/), financial exploitation (http://ppjg.me/category/guardianship-abuse/financial-exploitation/), Guardianship Abuse (http://ppjg.me/category/guardianship-abuse/), corrupt probate courts (http://ppjg.me/tag/corrupt-probate-courts/), elder abuse (http://ppjg.me/tag/elder-abuse/), elder estate theft (http://ppjg.me/tag/elder-estate-theft/), looting estates (http://ppjg.me/tag/looting-estates/),

[palani]

The organic law of the United States with respect to estates is the Northwest Ordinance. Actually this was brought into Law by the Articles of Confederation and predates the U.S. constitution.


Sec 2. Be it ordained by the authority aforesaid, That the estates, both of resident and nonresident proprietors in the said territory, dying intestate, shall descent to, and be distributed among their children, and the descendants of a deceased child, in equal parts; the descendants of a deceased child or grandchild to take the share of their deceased parent in equal parts among them: And where there shall be no children or descendants, then in equal parts to the next of kin in equal degree; and among collaterals, the children of a deceased brother or sister of the intestate shall have, in equal parts among them, their deceased parents' share; and there shall in no case be a distinction between kindred of the whole and half blood; saving, in all cases, to the widow of the intestate her third part of the real estate for life, and one third part of the personal estate; and this law relative to descents and dower, shall remain in full force until altered by the legislature of the district. And until the governor and judges shall adopt laws as hereinafter mentioned, estates in the said territory may be devised or bequeathed by wills in writing, signed and sealed by him or her in whom the estate may be (being of full age), and attested by three witnesses; and real estates may be conveyed by lease and release, or bargain and sale, signed, sealed and delivered by the person being of full age, in whom the estate may be, and attested by two witnesses, provided such wills be duly proved, and such conveyances be acknowledged, or the execution thereof duly proved, and be recorded within one year after proper magistrates, courts, and registers shall be appointed for that purpose; and personal property may be transferred by delivery; saving, however to the French and Canadian inhabitants, and other settlers of the Kaskaskies, St. Vincents and the neighboring villages who have heretofore professed themselves citizens of Virginia, their laws and customs now in force among them, relative to the descent and conveyance, of property.

When reading Law what is more important than what is written is what is NOT written. In the case of Sec II what is not written is any portion of the estate being reserved for either probate court or attorneys. When you die with a will then probate kicks in and judges and attorneys get to suck at the tit [one exception .. when the estate is valued at 5 sticks of chewing gum then the judges and attorneys decide their share can go entirely to the heirs]

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/nworder.asp

I place my estate in the chewing gum category. I am betting that five bucks in gold and twenty one bucks in silver isn't going to incite any lawyer to greed.

[Glass]

thanks, I've been trying to read up on it. Complicated for US from what I have read. In Aus it's fairly straight forward. 3 class of claimant. Govt. Creditors. Family beneficiaries. 1/3 each distributed by %. I don't know if age of claim has any influence. This is for intestate. No will.

But an estate is only possible if the assets are within the jurisdiction where the probate is being sought. So if an asset is movable, it would make sense to move it to the best location. As they say, location, location etc.

[Glass]

palani
ah ok, so ignoring the fact that we have no opportunity to prepare prior to deceasing, your quote raises the issue of residency. If the choice of location/country for probate is available do the beneficiaries need to reside in the location? Location is really jurisdiction. ok well I said country. Lets say its the same thing. I had not thought of this question. Not sure it's relevant. Maybe the beneficiary is not a person? Maybe it can be some thing else. Not sure if that can be done. Probate requires court approval. They would ask who is beneficiary. Might then say no. Not sure.

[palani]

an estate is only possible if the assets are within the jurisdiction where the probate is being sought. So if an asset is movable, it would make sense to move it to the best location. As they say, location, location etc.

Consider the plane of commerce as being a place. Then the problem becomes how to move rem out of the commercial plane and into a plane where commerce doesn't touch. Say you have a milk cow and society values it at $2,000. Instead you put it on the books as being valued at five beaver pelts.


Another plane to consider is the ownership plane. Without a doubt you don't go to sleep at night worrying about somebody elses property. Move the item into the trust plane where your passage will not effect the status of the rem.

[Glass]

yes your analogy describes the conundrum perfectly. The problem is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I'm trying to decide which fence is best to be the other side of. Being I'm a sheep, how big a portion the wolves get of me is important. But I can jump some fences. Not all but some. I recognise that a it's possible to be above the fences and the wolves. We should always strive for that. Also my Q about who/what would be the better beneficiary. I think a what is preferred. But then the question where? And then can a what be a beneficiary? Probate needs a person to front but then again Trustee companies appear to be companies and they can appear. hmm. idea.

[palani]

Trustee companies appear to be companies and they can appear.

A general rule that is 100% true in ALL cases bar none .... legal fictions appear by representation. This is why courts call you 'pro se' when you show up by yourself with no front man. They want you to be the front man.