How To Communicate With Your Federal Government

[palani]

These are from the 1840 or so period and are actual microfilmed copies of the envelopes used to send correspondence to Washington free of charge (note the FREE stamp?). These were microfilmed because the actual correspondence is on the reverse side of the paper.

Precedence established that no postage is needed to correspond with your federal government.

Now corresponding with your NATIONAL government could be an entirely different matter.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2mrv5mt.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/ab3vk8.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/opokrr.jpg

On the flip side ... your federal government pays no postage to communicate with YOU. If an alphabet agency is sending you letters and are paying postage I doubt if they are part of the federal government.

[Cebu_4_2]

This is where Bikini's came from...

http://thisisthestoryof.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/colorized-photo-of-nuclear-bomb-test-at-bikini-atoll-picture.jpg

[Glass]

here we can petition the Govenor or Governor General free of postage but the letter must be done in a particular form. The Letter forms the envelope. Folded in to 3rds and fastened leaving the ends unsealed. I am looking forward to an opportunity to petition the Governor to see if the postal service will take it and deliver it free. Most are private agents now. There does not appear to be a Post Master General either or if there is one, not sure he's doing his job.

[crimethink]

It's not "my" Federal "government."

And it's best to avoid any communication with "the" Federal "government" as much as possible.

[Glass]

It's not "my" Federal "government."

And it's best to avoid any communication with "the" Federal "government" as much as possible.

This is the best advice.

Stirring the pot could be someones leisure past time. I think if they are bound by a rule or law, regardless of whether you care, you can advise them of it. You might find that they do care about that rule or law. In the end, it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

[palani]

here we can petition the Govenor or Governor General free of postage but the letter must be done in a particular form.

Do these instructions come in written form anywhere or are you reciting folk lore? Just curious because I have never come across any instructions on correspondence.

Here if we want to make sure a post is delivered we have two choices: registered or certified. Registered is the preferred method although it is 5x more expensive than certified and 5x slower as well. Certified mail is reputed to be strictly commercial while with registered mail a dollar value must be given for the contents. With either choice a return post card showing that it was delivered and displaying the signature can be included.

[palani]

It's not "my" Federal "government.
Correct. It is YOUR national government.

[7th trump]

It's not "my" Federal "government."

And it's best to avoid any communication with "the" Federal "government" as much as possible.

Bullshit its not YOUR federal government!

From your other post and threads you obviously do not know there's a jurisdictional legal difference separating "The People" from "US citizens".
You are a federal "US citizen", you pay taxes to the federal government is one obvious clue the federal government is your government.
You can tell everyone here its not your government (dunking your head in the sand and telling yourself otherwise) but some here know your heads is in the head....clueless!


Here's a clue for you crimethink.....what jurisdiction plane does the federal government recognize the "Bill of Rights"?
Since I know your not up to date on legalities...what I'm asking is where do the "Bill of Rights" rest in order for "the People" to access them?

1. Do they rest fully on the level of federal jurisdiction or-
2. Do they rest within the state level jurisdiction?

[crimethink]

Correct. It is YOUR national government.

My government is in Heaven. No King but Jesus Christ.

[crimethink]

Bullshit its not YOUR federal government!

"My" implies consent. I offer no consent to any earthly regime.

[palani]

My government is in Heaven.

Stateless? Hard row to hoe. What is your nationality?

[7th trump]

"My" implies consent. I offer no consent to any earthly regime.

You consented on applying for state driver license (permission).
You sign your name on W4's...consenting to participating in government benefits with the government to take care of you (earthly regime).
So much an earthly regime you'll get to retire with a pension. Some Godly person you claim you are while throwing God away and claiming state as your god to take care of you. That's a slap in God's face.

Ever notice in the Bible none of good men and women slapped God in the face like you have.....they lived to the fullest until they were very old or were murdered. They never retired on someone else's backs

Your a hypocrite crimethink. Hypocrite.....plain and simple!

Think maybe you opened your mouth ne to many times. Theres people here who have thought through way more than you have.
I wouldn't go around bragging about some IQ number........most of the time it just means your full of it!

[crimethink]

Stateless? Hard row to hoe. What is your nationality?

Adamite.

[crimethink]

You consented on applying for state driver license (permission).


I consented to nothing. And even if I had, driver's licenses are issued by the states, not the Federal regime.




You sign your name on W4's...consenting to participating in government benefits with the government to take care of you (earthly regime).


Nope.




Your a hypocrite crimethink. Hypocrite.....plain and simple!


Pot kettle black?

You are a liar and a fool, Chump.

Still no proof you don't pay taxes. Just "your word." LOL

[palani]

Adamite.Indeed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamites


The "Children of God" cult or Family International, founded by David Berg in 1968, may be categorized as Adamites, and polygamists. It holds an Antinomian theology of "God's love" interpreted as sexual permissiveness, "free sex", "free love", or akin to religious pornography, child pornography, and ritual prostitution, like the Baalism religion in the Old Testament.

[7th trump]

I consented to nothing. And even if I had, driver's licenses are issued by the states, not the Federal regime.




Nope.




Pot kettle black?

You are a liar and a fool, Chump.

Still no proof you don't pay taxes. Just "your word." LOL

"US citizens" are federal personnel.
Participating in Social Security is what causes "The People" to become second class federal citizens.
See 5usc 552(a)(13)

When you sign the W4 you sign it under penalty of perjury to being a "US citizen". Ask yourself if Americans are eligible to participate then why a signature under penalty of perjury claiming to the federal government you are a "US citizen".


(13) the term “Federal personnel” means officers and employees of the Government of the United States, members of the uniformed services (including members of the Reserve Components), individuals entitled to receive immediate or deferred retirement benefits under any retirement program of the Government of the United States (including survivor benefits).

Under Social Security (government agency......Social Security Administration) participants are entitled to "immediate" benefits such unemployment, food stamps, underemployment,....ect

Heres what the courts have said about "US citizens". Pay close attention to these cites.


“We have in our political system a government of the United States and a government of each of the several States. Each one of these governments is distinct from the others, and each has citizens of it’s own...”
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)

“...he was not a citizen of the United States, he was a citizen and voter of the State,...” “One may be a citizen of a State an yet not a citizen of the United States”.
McDonel v. The State, 90 Ind. 320 (1883)

“That there is a citizenship of the United States and citizenship of a state,...”
Tashiro v. Jordan, 201 Cal. 236 (1927)

"A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government ..."
Kitchens v. Steele, 112 F.Supp 383

“The governments of the United States and of each state of the several states are distinct from one another. The rights of a citizen under one may be quite different from those which he has under the other”.
Colgate v. Harvey, 296 U.S. 404; 56 S.Ct. 252 (1935)

“There is a difference between privileges and immunities belonging to the citizens of the United States as such, and those belonging to the citizens of each state as such”.
Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41 (1900)

“The rights and privileges, and immunities which the fourteenth constitutional amendment and Rev. St. section 1979 [U.S. Comp. St. 1901, p. 1262], for its enforcement, were designated to protect, are such as belonging to citizens of the United States as such, and not as citizens of a state”.
Wadleigh v. Newhall 136 F. 941 (1905)

“...rights of national citizenship as distinct from the fundamental or natural rights inherent in state citizenship”.
Madden v. Kentucky, 309 U.S. 83: 84 L.Ed. 590 (1940)


When you apply for a drivers license you must disclose the SSN in order for the state to issue a drivers license to "federal personnel".
By disclosing the SSN on government forms you are declaring "under penalty of perjury" you are "federal personnel".
States don't issue drivers license to State citizens.


Would a pic of a check from my work place suffice to show you I don't pay taxes?
I'll warn you now.....it doesn't prove a damn thing ...other than it being a picture of a purported check. And if you believe this pic ...I have to consider what kind of fool you are to believe any pic on the net.
You wouldn't have any creditability with me.

[crimethink]

Indeed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamites

Nope.

As in, simply a son of Adam. Not some cult founded by a Talmud Jew.

[crimethink]

Would a pic of a check from my work place suffice to show you I don't pay taxes?
I'll warn you now.....it doesn't prove a damn thing ...other than it being a picture of a purported check. And if you believe this pic ...I have to consider what kind of fool you are to believe any pic on the net.

But yet you just expect us to "take you at your word." :rolleyes:

Your arguments are the same or similar to Irwin Schiff. He went to prison, largely because he was overt. You have not, because you're covert.

[Glass]

Would a pic of a check from my work place suffice to show you I don't pay taxes?
I'll warn you now.....it doesn't prove a damn thing ...other than it being a picture of a purported check. And if you believe this pic ...I have to consider what kind of fool you are to believe any pic on the net.
You wouldn't have any creditability with me.

7th. Do you still have to file tax returns?

[crimethink]

7th. Do you still have to file tax returns?

Does he "have to"? Yes.

Does he? No.

I have no scorn for those who simply exercise what they believe to be the right course of action towards Individuals Representing Satan. However, I have great scorn & ridicule towards those who spread disinformation that will get people in serious trouble, claiming that "there is 'no liability' if you use this [scam] method." Avoiding the IRS thugs is fine by me. What is not fine is misleading people into thinking there is a "legal" way to permanently avoid them without consequences.

[7th trump]

7th. Do you still have to file tax returns?

Absolutely not.
A W3 is not being generated from earning Social Security "wages" (which would be box 3 on the W2 if I had earned those "wages") and sent to the SSA.
There isn't any "wage" data to enter into the government system.

The government cannot assess what is not there to assess a tax on.

[7th trump]

Does he "have to"? Yes.

Does he? No.

I have no scorn for those who simply exercise what they believe to be the right course of action towards Individuals Representing Satan. However, I have great scorn & ridicule towards those who spread disinformation that will get people in serious trouble, claiming that "there is 'no liability' if you use this [scam] method." Avoiding the IRS thugs is fine by me. What is not fine is misleading people into thinking there is a "legal" way to permanently avoid them without consequences.

What scam is there crimethink?
I don't get a W2 to file a return...and no W3 is generated either.
You have no idea about taxes or "reporting".
You don't even know anything about Schiff either.

I spoke to Irwin on the phone just before he was raided in Nevada.......have you?
Irwins fault was he would attach the W2 to the 1040 while claiming all -0- on the 1040.
The government finally stopped him as he was causing people to get 500.00 penalty's plus interest.....all because he attached the W2 showing "wages" earned while trying to fool the government in saying they didn't earn "wages".
Irwin like all the rest never looked at why anybody has to file a W4. Nor have they ever researched the "reporting" side of taxes.
If they did they would have found it is Social Security.

You have absolutely no clue about "reporting" crimethink.....none!

[crimethink]

Absolutely not.
A W3 is not being generated from earning Social Security "wages" (which would be box 3 on the W2 if I had earned those "wages") and sent to the SSA.
There isn't any "wage" data to enter into the government system.

The government cannot assess what is not there to assess a tax on.

A W-2 and W-3 are related only to the first item on the list:

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc400.html

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Taxable-and-Nontaxable-Income

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/What-is-Taxable-and-Nontaxable-Income

[crimethink]

You have absolutely no clue about "reporting" crimethink.....none!

You are simply not man enough to just admit that you are avoiding the IRS. Like I said earlier, I don't care if you are - and good for you if you can do it. My problem with you is that you are LYING about an allegedly foolproof way to do it. You risk other peoples' property, freedom and possibly even lives by spreading disinformation.

[Glass]

I came across the W4 in the very beginning of my research into this. It was just about the first thing I looked into. I immediately started looking for an equivalent down here but could not find one. The time to act is before making application for a tax file number - TFN. I got mine when I was a student because the told me I would get some free funds for studying. Of course they changed the rules and I had to pay back those funds. I think it was plus interest.The amount you pay back got bigger the more you earnt. The last payment nearly sent me over the brink as I got a default assessment from the tax man at 180% of my actual income. Pushed me into a new tax tier with higher health care levies as well. Nearly doubled those plus double tax on 1/2 the income. Diabolical.

[crimethink]

I came across the W4 in the very beginning of my research into this. It was just about the first thing I looked into. I immediately started looking for an equivalent down here but could not find one. The time to act is before making application for a tax file number - TFN. I got mine when I was a student because the told me I would get some free funds for studying. Of course they changed the rules and I had to pay back those funds. I think it was plus interest.The amount you pay back got bigger the more you earnt. The last payment nearly sent me over the brink as I got a default assessment from the tax man at 180% of my actual income. Pushed me into a new tax tier with higher health care levies as well. Nearly doubled those plus double tax on 1/2 the income. Diabolical.

Obviously, if it were possible to never have a "file" with the tax collectors, then one would have a much higher probability of avoiding them indefinitely. However, at least here in America, no one can avoid being listed on some list at some point in their life...and such lists get incorporated into the IRS's primary database of "taxpayers." And, when you have "non-filing" status for years, your "file" is analyzed more closely, comparing the massive amount of data collected on all Americans. No filing + no non-exempt income (e.g., wages, salaries, dividends, interest) + no exempt income (Social Security) = investigation. All done by computers now, so there is no hiding in the mistakes. No one lives for free in this society, even the homeless. The assumption is then "tax evasion."

[Glass]

yes possibly, but assumptions can be dangerous no matter who makes them. Remember that Personal Income Tax was voluntary at one time. Still may be, however compliance with the tax code is mandatory. Thats the way it works here. Income tax was originally only for corporations. Actually still is. Persons are corporations, tax franchise users are also corporations. Thats the big shift. The real corporations have shifted the tax burden from them onto the people by making the people also corporations.

[crimethink]

yes possibly, but assumptions can be dangerous no matter who makes them. Remember that Personal Income Tax was voluntary at one time.


The United States Senate Majority Leader claims it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg




Still may be, however compliance with the tax code is mandatory.


Dozens if not hundreds of people in jail demonstrates arguments about "exemption from personal income tax" are worthless.

We pay because we are forced to, not because it's "the law" or it is right.

If these tax arguments actually worked, it would be easy for their proponents to simply provide letters of "no tax liability" from the IRS. But they can't. In fact, the moment they write the IRS claiming such, they are on the shit list.

[7th trump]

You are simply not man enough to just admit that you are avoiding the IRS. Like I said earlier, I don't care if you are - and good for you if you can do it. My problem with you is that you are LYING about an allegedly foolproof way to do it. You risk other peoples' property, freedom and possibly even lives by spreading disinformation.

Your ego is not allowing you to see the forest through the trees.
Dump the worthless ego you have on your shoulders.....and then take up researching the W4 and then maybe, just maybe, you'll see how this all works.

Speaking of W4....I bet you never researched the W4 itself.
Like all government forms...they must list the statutes and their regulations as to why they are to be signed...or not signed.
Bet you didn't even know the Paperwork Reduction Act and Privacy Notice (these are listed on the back side of the W4) have something very interesting to say about the use of the W4.
Yeah...you never researched them have you crimethink? Nope......no you haven't.........and you want everyone to bow to you as an all great know-it-all.
Here's what these two acts have to say about the W4.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf


Privacy Act and Paperwork Reduction Act Notice. We ask for the information on this form to carry out the Internal Revenue laws of the United States. Internal Revenue Code sections 3402(f)(2) and 6109 and their regulations require you to provide this information; your employer uses it to determine your federal income tax withholding.

Lets see here........6109 is a dandy of a statute...its regulations says you don't have to participate in Social security if you don't "wish" to.
Lets see here...if my memory is correct its 301.6109-1(d)...its an administrative statutes. You know what an "administrative" regulation means crimethink?
It means it applies only to the administrative aspect of signing the W4. It means the employer must understand when and when not to have an employee sign the form. Here's the most important part of 6109.


(d) Obtaining a taxpayer identifying number—

(1) Social security number. Any individual required to furnish a social security number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section shall apply for one, if he has not done so previously, on Form SS-5, which may be obtained from any Social Security Administration or Internal Revenue Service office. He shall make such application far enough in advance of the first required use of such number to permit issuance of the number in time for compliance with such requirement. The form, together with any supplementary statement, shall be prepared and filed in accordance with the form, instructions, and regulations applicable thereto, and shall set forth fully and clearly the data therein called for. Individuals who are ineligible for or do not wish to participate in the benefits of the social security program shall nevertheless obtain a social security number if they are required to furnish such a number pursuant to paragraph (b) of this section.

I've supplied paragraph (b) for you crimethink....just so you can tell everyone theres nothing in paragraph (b) relating to signing a W4 just because the government says so.


(b) Requirement to furnish one's own number—

(1) U.S. persons. Every U.S. person who makes under this title a return, statement, or other document must furnish its own taxpayer identifying number as required by the forms and the accompanying instructions. A U.S. person whose number must be included on a document filed by another person must give the taxpayer identifying number so required to the other person on request. For penalties for failure to supply taxpayer identifying numbers, see sections 6721 through 6724. For provisions dealing specifically with the duty of employees with respect to their social security numbers, see § 31.6011(b)-2 (a) and (b) of this chapter (Employment Tax Regulations). For provisions dealing specifically with the duty of employers with respect to employer identification numbers, see § 31.6011(b)-1 of this chapter (Employment Tax Regulations).

And if you think 31.6011(b)-2 (a) and (b) say anything about being forced to participate....have at it dud!...you wont get around this verbiage found in those statutes.

E
very employee who on any day after October 31, 1962, is in employment for wages which are subject to the taxes imposed by the Federal Insurance Contributions Act or which are subject to the withholding of income tax from wages under section 3402
As far as 3402 goes....it consists of government employees and FICA "wages".
Guess what...I'm not a government employee and nor do I participate in FICA (Social Security)....my earnings don't fall under under 3402 nor do they fall under 3121.

You should have never opened your silly mouth crimethink.....I've dotted eyes every time you open your mouth with these statutes and regulation.
I know what I'm talking about....you don't!
I've been at this since 1995.

[crimethink]

Your ego is not allowing you to see the forest through the trees.
Dump the worthless ego you have on your shoulders.....and then take up researching the W4 and then maybe, just maybe, you'll see how this all works.

You insist on conflating Social Security and "tax liability according to the IRS." They are not the same. So, let's say you were "exempt" from FICA. That does not mean you're "exempt" from FIT.

"Tax liability" ensues from a lot more "income" than just "wages & salaries."

[palani]

From A NEW MISCELLANY FOR THE YEAR 1738 ... communications are generally defined to be a two way affair not just from Parliament (or Congress if you will) down to you

http://books.google.com/books?id=zopbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA29&dq=franking&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2uJvVJ2DAq_gsASKhIGQBg&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBTgy#v=onepage&q=franking&f=false

http://i61.tinypic.com/b5mc6f.jpg

[palani]

From A Dictionary and Digest of the Law of Scotland ... suggests that franking is a GENERAL POST OFFICE function only and gives the rules ... from the People to their representatives the correspondence is in the form of petitions.


http://books.google.com/books?id=a6xBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA441&dq=franking&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2uJvVJ2DAq_gsASKhIGQBg&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBzgy#v=onepage&q=franking&f=false

http://i61.tinypic.com/2ps24iv.jpg

[palani]

It seems vaccinations have even entered the realm of franking as early as 1813. From the Laws of the United States
http://books.google.com/books?id=zGdZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA508&dq=franking&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bAJwVPDmA-mBsQSQhILQDw&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBzg8#v=onepage&q=franking&f=false

http://i58.tinypic.com/2aaenih.jpg

Notice the oath that must be sworn in front of a magistrate includes "that I will abstain from every thing prohibited in relation to the establishment of the post office of the United States." Now that seems odd to me as if before taking the oath A.B. actually had the power to establish the post office of the United States.

[palani]

From JOURNALS OF THE AMERICAN CONGRESS FROM 1774-1788 (pg 391)

I have seen no indication that this bit of code has been overturned.... or .. it might not even have been passed.

http://books.google.com/books?id=sEQUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR48&dq=franking&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9AxwVND_OszIsQThhIKIDw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBTha#v=onepage&q=franking&f=false

http://i62.tinypic.com/2dqjz2u.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

FFS... SMH. Wish I didn't wander here.

[palani]

Wish I didn't wander here.
I guess that would make you incompetent (or is it incontinent?)

[palani]

From A DIGEST OF THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES ... Notice a list of officers that franking is available for ... both TO AND FROM. Also be aware of the penalty for abusing the privilege.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AuOuAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA56&dq=general+post+office&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oI1wVPPQNbLjsAT6kIKIBw&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=general%20post%20office&f=false

http://i59.tinypic.com/33pcwua.jpg

[palani]

From CHEAP POSTAGE REMARKS AND STATISTICS ON THE SUBJECT OF CHEAP POSTAGE found here


http://books.google.com/books?id=mK9VAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA31&dq=franks+postage&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XbRwVJ_-EauxsASfiYGoBg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=franks%20postage&f=false

So cheap postage was to have ended the franking privilege. Now that postage is not cheap does that mean franking is again an option? How do paupers and vagabonds communicate with their government otherwise ? The modern post office is a for profit establishment even though they really don't do a good job of balancing their income and expenses.
http://i59.tinypic.com/2dlpxtt.jpg

[mick silver]

why would I want too

[palani]

why would I want too
Just thought you might be dissatisfied with the way your servants are handling your affairs. Don't you think you ought to communicate with them? After all, it is FREE.

'Course, I cannot lie to you. The act might label you a TERRORIST.

[mick silver]

bingo

[palani]

bingo
Frankly (pun intended) you are most likely on a list.

Why not send a free letter to the pres and ask him so that you know for sure?

You might even make it in the form of a petition.

[palani]

bingo

If you REALLY want to be on a short list ... make your correspondence in the form of a writ of MANDAMUS.

[gunDriller]

>> How To Communicate With Your Federal Government


something Joe Stack learned how to do.

but it cost him.