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Serpo
18th November 2014, 01:29 AM
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17 November, 2014 - 01:43 aprilholloway (http://www.ancient-origins.net/users/aprilholloway)
1,300-year-old fortress-like structure on Siberian lake continues to mystify experts

http://www.ancient-origins.net/images/button1-share.gif (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php) It is one of the most mysterious archaeological sites in Russia – an ancient complex engulfing a small island in the center of a remote lake in the mountains of southern Siberia. At first glance, it appears to be an ancient fortress, its perimeter of high walls constructed to keep out enemies. However, others have proposed the 1,300-year-old structure may have been a summer palace, monastery, memorial complex, ritual center, or astronomical observatory. According to the Siberian Times (http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0009-who-built-this-siberian-summer-palace-and-why/), more than a century after its rediscovery, experts are no closer to understanding the secrets of these enigmatic ruins.
The archaeological site is known as Por Bajin (also spelt Por-Bazhyn), meaning ‘clay house’. It is located on an island in the middle of Tere-Khol Lake in Tuva, Siberia, just 20 miles (32 km) from the Mongolian border. First explored in 1891, the site was not excavated until 1957-1963. However, it was not until 2007-2008 that the first large-scale research was undertaken, carried out by the Por Bajin Cultural Foundation.
What they discovered presented a conundrum – the structure is located in a very remote place on the outskirts of what was the Uighur nomad empire, built with Chinese features, but with no sign of permanent habitation, and abandoned after only a short period of use.
Why was it built? How was it used? And why was it abandoned? These are the questions that have continued to both fascinate and frustrate experts ever since its discovery.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Inside-the-complex-of-Por-Bajin.jpg?itok=BovFb3jG

Inside the complex of Por Bajin. Credit: Por Bajin Cultural Foundation (http://www.por-bajin.com/)
The Construction of Por Bajin

Believed to have been constructed in 757 AD, the ancient complex has outer walls that still rise to 40 feet (12 meters) in height and inner walls of 3-5 feet (1 – 1.5 meters), some still covered with lime plaster painted with horizontal red stripes. A main gate was discovered, opening into two successive courtyards connected by another gate.
The walls enclose an area of about seven acres containing the remains of more than 30 buildings, but with a two-part central structure linked by a covered walkway, which once had a tiled roof and was supported by 36 wooden columns resting on stone bases.
Laser mapping of the site prior to the first major excavation in 2007 helped experts build a 3D model of what the complex might have looked like.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Por-Bajin-reconstruction-seen-from-the-east.jpg?itok=9FSjTZtZ

Por-Bajin reconstruction seen from the east. Credit: Por Bajin Cultural Foundation (http://www.por-bajin.com/)
Only a small number of artifacts were ever recovered from the site – if it had been permanently inhabited one would expect to find a much greater number of items. There was also no evidence of any kind of heating system, which would have made it impossible to stay there, at 2,300 meters above sea level, in winter conditions.
The main finds include clay tablets of human feet, faded coloured drawings, fragments of burnt wood, roof tiles, an iron dagger, a stone chalice, one silver earring, and iron construction nails. None of the artifacts provide a definitive answer as to why the structure was built, and how it was used.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/One-of-the-tiles-found-at-Por-Bajin.jpg?itok=IRf4RnES

One of the tiles found at Por Bajin. Credit: Por Bajin Cultural Foundation (http://www.por-bajin.com/)
The Origins and Purpose of Por Bajin

Since the end of the 19th century, Por-Bajin has been linked to the Uighur Khagante nomadic empire (744 – 840 AD), composed of nomadic Turkic-speaking people held together by forces of warriors on horseback. The empire spanned Mongolia and southern Siberia, however, the location of Por Bajin was still well away from settlements and trade routes. Why would they build in such a remote location? Could it have been the site of a palace or a memorial for a ruler? The unique layout, more ornate than that of other Uighur fortresses of the period, has led some scholars to suggest that it might have had a ritual role.
Still, there are some other puzzling features. The architecture reflects a distinctive Chinese style, as evidenced by the use of Chinese building materials, such as certain types of roof tiles, and the use of Chinese construction methods. The layout, with its axial planning, dominant central building, and residential quarters is consistent with styles seen in other Buddhist monasteries. But Por-Bajin shows no evidence of religious practice.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/Small-yards-running-along-Por-Bajin-walls.jpg?itok=eLnDOkxI

Small yards (left) running along Por-Bajin's walls each had a building in the center. A digital reconstruction (right) based on excavations shows that each building could have functioned as a dwelling, perhaps for monks if the site were a monastery. Credit: Por Bajin Cultural Foundation (http://www.por-bajin.com/)
Why was it abandoned?

Not only has Por Bajin presented a mystery regarding its purpose, but archaeological evidence suggests it was abandoned after only a short period of use.
No evidence has been found to suggest the complex came under attack from an opposing force. Political changes in the region may offer one possible explanation, although nothing concrete has been presented to support this theory. According to Dmitriy Subetto, from the Department of Physical Geography RGPU, the structure may have been abandoned prior to completion due to the builders' lack of familiarity with the permafrost.
For now, Por Bajin remains one of Russia’s enduring mysteries.
Featured image: Aerial view of Lake Tere-Khol and Por-Bajin island. Credit: Por Bajin Cultural Foundation (http://www.por-bajin.com/)
Sources

Who built this Siberian summer palace… and why? By Derek Lambie. Siberian Times (http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/features/f0009-who-built-this-siberian-summer-palace-and-why/).
Por Bajin: An Enigmatic Site of the Uighurs in Southern Siberia (https://www.academia.edu/1905350/Por-Bajin_An_Enigmatic_Site_of_the_Uighurs_in_Southern _Siberia) (2011) – Arzhanstseva et al. The European Archaeologist, 35.
Letter from Siberia: Fortress of Solitude by Heinrich Harke. Archaeology magazine (http://archive.archaeology.org/1011/etc/letter.html), Vol 63 (













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Ponce
18th November 2014, 09:15 AM
All that I can say is WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, even now we would be unable, or it would take a long time, to build something like that.......1,300 years ago it would have been one of the wonders of the world.....magnificent.

To take the needed material alone (like Masupichu?) would have been almost an impossible job, and then you had the weather to put up with.......many must have die in building this wonder.

V

7th trump
18th November 2014, 09:47 AM
All that I can say is WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, even now we would be unable, or it would take a long time, to build something like that.......1,300 years ago it would have been one of the wonders of the world.....magnificent.

To take the needed material alone (like Masupichu?) would have been almost an impossible job, and then you had the weather to put up with.......many must have die in building this wonder.

V

Theres nothing woooow about it Ponce....other than being surrounded by water....shallow water at that and not far off from the shore.
Probably an ice skating palace for the rich and famous of that day.
Its not that big at all.....machu picchu on the other hand is something to wooow about.

crimethink
18th November 2014, 10:24 AM
Interesting, but nothing profound. Its age, location, and architecture are unremarkable. Add a thousand years or a 1000 miles north, and it would be a bigger deal.

Celtic Rogue
18th November 2014, 10:34 AM
It has a very similar look to the forbidden city in china. Very chinese looking in design. I agree with Ponce! WOW! Very cool archeology site for sure. I also guess that 7th thinks stone henge is nothing more than a bunch of stones placed in a circle? EVERY new discovery unlocks a part of the real puzzle of the history of mankind hidden from us by the jews and others!

7th trump
18th November 2014, 10:49 AM
It has a very similar look to the forbidden city in china. Very chinese looking in design. I agree with Ponce! WOW! Very cool archeology site for sure. I also guess that 7th thinks stone henge is nothing more than a bunch of stones placed in a circle? EVERY new discovery unlocks a part of the real puzzle of the history of mankind hidden from us by the jews and others!

I personally dont give a rats ass about stonehedge....nothing special about placing rocks in a circle. Pagan in nature anyway.

Hmmmm....your mentality of beleiving the jews know everything there is and they are keeping it all from us....sounds like a mental disorder.
I dont beleive the jews know everything about everything...and I certainly dont think they are keeping what ever they know from the goy either. If anything I know about the so called chosen ones is they need a host to survive. If they need a host to survive they arent supreme...why do you continue beleiving they are surpreme?

What ever this place, stone hedge or any other ancient sites are....those people are gone.......it failed!
I dont dwell on history...its bound to repeat itself when you leave God out of the equation.

Besides, when this particular earth age is done with the advent of the return of Christ...all this shit is destroyed and gone. The world as we know it is transformed, never to be again.

Ponce
18th November 2014, 10:59 AM
Hahaahahahaahah wowwwwwwwww trump...."Besides, when this particular earth age is done with the advent of the return of Christ"......... best line of the day, no wonder the Crhistians are willing to kill "in the name of Christ".....if he was real an had the power he would get rid of people like you. And you guys talk against the Muslims?......All religions are the same only their names are different...... MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOURS, BANGGGGGGGGG YOU ARE DEAD",as with poletics religion is about power and not about love and peace........May "The Force" be with you.

V

Celtic Rogue
18th November 2014, 11:29 AM
7th your mind is polluted with dogma, lies and misinformation! Lies that make you go against the true teaching of your christ! Typical of your bigoted closed mind claptrap! Your god only has a history of less than 3000 years... If your god is so powerful why didnt people before the jews believed in him? Face it your religion is just one of many religions that have come and gone. One day in the future you will see christianity as nothing more than a fairy tail like all the other gods and goddesses of the past!

7th trump
18th November 2014, 11:51 AM
7th your mind is polluted with dogma, lies and misinformation! Lies that make you go against the true teaching of your christ! Typical of your bigoted closed mind claptrap! Your god only has a history of less than 3000 years... If your god is so powerful why didnt people before the jews believed in him? Face it your religion is just one of many religions that have come and gone. One day in the future you will see christianity as nothing more than a fairy tail like all the other gods and goddesses of the past!

The true teachings are right there in the Bible...theres three earth ages.
1. One before lucifers revolt.
2. The present age (flesh age)
3. And the third age (the age where the earth is rejuvenated back into its original state.)

Christianity hasn't gone anywhere.........its the largest of all. And no, my God has been around since the begining. Christ didnt walk on the earth until much later....you're confusing the Bible with christianity...Christ came in the second testament.....Christ walking on earth was foretold in the old testament.....1000 years before he actually walked on earth.
Nothing in the ible about your precious murdering land pirate pedaphile muhammed mentioned at all.
Christ was there in the beginning........just who do you think the "tree of knowledge" is?

7th trump
18th November 2014, 11:55 AM
Hahaahahahaahah wowwwwwwwww trump...."Besides, when this particular earth age is done with the advent of the return of Christ"......... best line of the day, no wonder the Crhistians are willing to kill "in the name of Christ".....if he was real an had the power he would get rid of people like you. And you guys talk against the Muslims?......All religions are the same only their names are different...... MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOURS, BANGGGGGGGGG YOU ARE DEAD",as with poletics religion is about power and not about love and peace........May "The Force" be with you.

V

No ponce not all religions are the same.
Not going to say anything about the shallow water freezing thus being able to travel to and from that small little islend huh?
Guess thats all you can do is attack common sense when proven otherwise.

That place is tiny....nothing of any real acheivements there.

You can fit about 6 medium houses on that little island...its little over four acres judging from the photo....big fucking deal!

Celtic Rogue
18th November 2014, 12:18 PM
Your bible has no references.... therefor invalid to use as proof of anything! LOL you would buy a blind horse if someone told you it was gods will! Your kind are the scary ones in this world.

I prefer people who can use the brains they have to reason and not parrot scriptures! You say your god has been around since the beginning??? Infinite beings have no beginning! Or was your god created also?? You also speak like you 100% possitivly know things happened EXACTLY like you say they did! Ridiculous, baseless and grandiose statements at best.

You go on dead peoples words...yet you say that "you dont dwell on history"... yet that is exactly what you are doing with this new version of religion called christianity.

Just as the other religions and gods have... yours too will fail and history will have repeated itself because people refuse to know the true history of things and think for themselves!

Serpo
18th November 2014, 12:22 PM
Its always fun ,digging up the past and old writings written by other humans to see what we should be doing today............haha


MY quote...........

its only when you become innocent like little children and have thrown all the brainwashing out can you enter my kingdom.

My kingdom to me being a state of consciousness without preconceive ideas influencing what we see.

Its not some far away place that only good people can go too after they are dead as this is the height of selfishness and ignorance. Forget about this world ,even though we are living in it and concentrate on the next is christian hypocrisy .

7th trump
18th November 2014, 03:39 PM
Your bible has no references.... therefor invalid to use as proof of anything! LOL you would buy a blind horse if someone told you it was gods will! Your kind are the scary ones in this world.

I prefer people who can use the brains they have to reason and not parrot scriptures! You say your god has been around since the beginning??? Infinite beings have no beginning! Or was your god created also?? You also speak like you 100% possitivly know things happened EXACTLY like you say they did! Ridiculous, baseless and grandiose statements at best.

You go on dead peoples words...yet you say that "you dont dwell on history"... yet that is exactly what you are doing with this new version of religion called christianity.

Just as the other religions and gods have... yours too will fail and history will have repeated itself because people refuse to know the true history of things and think for themselves!

The Bible has no references in the old testament about Christ huh?
There's plenty of references.
1000 years before He was born of a virgin.

Isaiah 9:6-7

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever."


Isaiah 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

Psalm 22 foretelling of His crucifixion.
And He recited psalms 22 exactly as written when crucified.
Written 1000 years before he was born.

StreetsOfGold
18th November 2014, 04:14 PM
The Bible has no references in the old testament about Christ huh?
There's plenty of references.
1000 years before He was born of a virgin.
Isaiah 9:6-7
Isaiah 7:14
Psalm 22 foretelling of His crucifixion.
And He recited psalms 22 exactly as written when crucified.
Written 1000 years before he was born.

Agreed and you just provided a few choice examples!

The entire Bible, including the (OT) is about Jesus Christ according to Jesus Christ

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Celtic Rogue
18th November 2014, 04:27 PM
The Bible has no references in the old testament about Christ huh?
There's plenty of references.
1000 years before He was born of a virgin.

Isaiah 9:6-7


Isaiah 7:14


Psalm 22 foretelling of His crucifixion.
And He recited psalms 22 exactly as written when crucified.
Written 1000 years before he was born.

Not references of christ in the bible... references to validate what is written. Like foot notes or sources. No references then no good to use as proof of anything!

crimethink
18th November 2014, 04:29 PM
The entire Bible, including the (OT) is about Jesus Christ according to Jesus Christ.

If the Bible is true, if Jesus Christ was really Who He said He was, then people would have to shape up quick. That frightens people beyond imagination. Most peoples' entire lives have been built on the false premise that the Bible is a "fairy tale" and that Jesus Christ "didn't exist."

Denial of both is far easier than recognizing one's life has been a great error.

crimethink
18th November 2014, 04:32 PM
Not references of christ in the bible... references to validate what is written. Like foot notes or sources. No references then no good to use as proof of anything!

Footnotes are not proof of anything. Most works merely cite others' opinions and perspectives. It's like intellectual incest. Even "peer-review" is just a circle-jerk. Several hundred "peer-reviewed" articles had to be dismissed in the recent past because they were gibberish created by computer. Tip of the iceberg.

If the Old Testament referenced something specific to come, and it happened, that is proof that some sort of foreknowledge occurred. Even the most skeptical scientist would have to attempt to explain it.

However, if one needs footnotes, this one has plenty of them:

http://www.christianbook.com/kjv-archaeological-illustrated-biblical-history-culture/9780310942610/pd/942610?event=ESRCG

http://g.christianbook.com/g/slideshow/9/942610/main/942610_1_ftc.jpg

The "myths" documented.

Serpo
18th November 2014, 04:40 PM
I think it is basically a fortress.



what about a fish farm then...........

7th trump
18th November 2014, 05:00 PM
Not references of christ in the bible... references to validate what is written. Like foot notes or sources. No references then no good to use as proof of anything!

You knew exactly what I was saying pal...and now you play games.

And notice anything?....nothing about you precious murderous child raping muslim muhammed either.

Carl
18th November 2014, 05:16 PM
Well, if you eyeball the gates to the individual compounds, they could figure into the reason why it was abandoned.....

Santa
18th November 2014, 05:25 PM
Well, if you eyeball the gates to the individual compounds, they could figure into the reason why it was abandoned.....

Lol... I had to go back for a look. Pretty funny. Maybe it was a compound for Royal family retards.

Celtic Rogue
18th November 2014, 05:26 PM
LOL Trump!!!! You mistook what I was saying! Not the other way around!!!

I said... "Your bible has no references".... as in footnotes or sources.
You said... "The Bible has no references in the old testament about Christ huh?"
I said... "Not references of christ in the bible... references to validate what is written."
You said... "You knew exactly what I was saying pal...and now you play games."

Yes I knew exactly what you were saying.... something that I was not!

Anyway I will not discuss myth, or any other off topic stuff on this thread... ONLY on topic discussion about the OP!

Serpo
18th November 2014, 05:34 PM
is CT here to bash us with his religious beliefs forever.......


what on earth has a thread like this got to do with evangelism I dont know.............

kiffertom
19th November 2014, 06:33 AM
All that I can say is WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, even now we would be unable, or it would take a long time, to build something like that.......1,300 years ago it would have been one of the wonders of the world.....magnificent.

To take the needed material alone (like Masupichu?) would have been almost an impossible job, and then you had the weather to put up with.......many must have die in building this wonder.

Vwonder how the climate was back then?

Horn
19th November 2014, 07:15 AM
Well, if you eyeball the gates to the individual compounds, they could figure into the reason why it was abandoned.....

A keep place to run, when you were outnumbered momentarily.

Imagine trying to hop the outer wall, not know which gate was locked...

Buddha
19th November 2014, 11:33 AM
The original Silver Island

Ponce
19th November 2014, 12:17 PM
It would be fun to have the money to rebuild it......with a lot of heathers of course, muts be colder that heaven in there.

V

mick silver
20th November 2014, 07:29 AM
it was a play ground for the rich back in the day

7th trump
20th November 2014, 08:08 AM
it was a play ground for the rich back in the day

Any way of confirming that?
I mentioned it being an ice skating place for the rich of that day as a guess. I think my guess was correct.

mick silver
20th November 2014, 09:37 AM
why I say that because only the rich could of payed for that to be build . poor people would need to work long hours to have food for their familys