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EE_
7th December 2014, 08:10 AM
The Most Elementary Question Must Not Be Asked
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/07/2014 10:35 -0500

By Raúl Ilargi Meijer of The Automatic Earth

The Most Elementary Question Must Not Be Asked

We’re in dire need of fresh blood and smart new ideas to clean up the mess the present ideologies and their puppets and puppetmasters have created. The present crew has made a neverending series of ‘mistakes’, intentional or not, and they are dead set on making more, if only because they refuse to change the tack that led to all these ‘mistakes’.

I say mistakes because that’s what they are from the point of view of all those who live in the real economy, not because I think the puppetmasters are mistaken from their own point of view. After all, all they do, literally all they do, is take care of their own interests. Where they will find themselves mistaken is down the line, when there is no longer a functioning real economy, and they will of necessity end up going down with it.

However, even though you wouldn’t say it to look at America and Europe these days, we don’t need to be puppets to any masters. I know, I know, most of you don’t even recognize yourselves as puppets – yes, you -. You believe most of what you read, or at least enough to keep going on the beaten track. And they’re good at making you believe. They’ve gotten a lot better at it ever since you were born, whenever you were born.

You only need to listen to things like this week’s US jobs report, which has the media falling over each other and themselves to declare victory. But which, when you take a good look, declares no such thing. And we’ve been going on this road for many years now, a road defined by debt on one side and propaganda on the other, and we stick to it because we are promised on a 24/7 basis that it will lead to growth, which is always just around the corner. Growth is the magic word.

But why do we need growth, and do we even need it at all? That is a question which is considered blasphemous anathema by the current class of economists and leaders. Still, and maybe especially for that reason, it is a question that needs to be asked, perhaps THE question. Because the past 10, 20 or even 40 years have not actually delivered any growth, once you look beyond the propaganda, and the added debt.

And when you add that debt to the equation, they’ve brought the real economy the opposite of growth, while handing the puppet masters unequaled riches. In a nutshell, the past 40 years or so have given us added layers of gadgets at the price of unaffordable education and health care, the price of a deteriorating real economy. And that is just the start of the way down.

Growth is a topic I’ve written a lot about over the years, too much to even try and find it all back again. Here are a few samples. From November 14 2011:

The Growth Paradigm Has Become An Embarrassment

It’s high time to come clean, to stop the incessant lying. To stop pretending things are a bit hard right now, but otherwise just fine. They’re not. Extend and pretend works only so long. Then it snaps back in your face with a vengeance. That’s why the bond markets are so successful in bringing down Italy and Greece. Not because the ECB doesn’t step in, since that would only serve to cover up reality for a little bit longer, but because they’ve both lied for so long about their real predicaments.
No, just stop lying. The consequences and challenges will be formidable, but they’ll be that anyway. You can’t cover up the debt and the losses forever. And the chances of growing your economies out of the cesspit are zero, if not below.

One thing no more lying will achieve is this: it will re-establish confidence in the markets -or what’ll be left of them-. And isn’t that what you guys always say you want to accomplish? Well, I can assure you, it’s the only way to do it: cut the fairy tales. Take a breath of fresh air and get to work. Do something real and rewarding for a change, and for a living.

Oh, and one other thing that must stop something urgent: stop talking about economic growth. There ain’t none, and we need to wonder hard and loud why we still and always unquestioningly assume and accept that we need it. No, the Greek economy will not grow its way out of its misery. Neither will Italy’s, or France’s or America’s. There’s too much debt to grow out of.

But perhaps this is hard to fathom without resorting to more philosophical questions. For those of you who’ve never read or heard Professor Albert Bartlett’s work on exponential growth (since that is what we’re talking bout), get moving. Bartlett is a physicist. That means he’s an actual scientist, and capable of understanding the inevitable endgame of exponential growth. People like Papademos and Monti, as well as just about any political and economic leader on the planet, don’t understand the science involved. Either that or they’re willfully blind to it.

And there’s another layer to the question, one that goes beyond the easy to understand impossibility of endless and eternal growth. That is, when we look around our respective places on the planet, why do we think we need to grow more? Why do we feel we haven’t grown enough? And perhaps more quintessential: what is it that we want to grow into? At what point, if we do want more growth, will it be enough for us? Have we even thought about that?

We are fed the constant growth story because it is indeed a necessity in our present system. When all money issued carries interest i.e. is issued as debt, you will need to grow your GDP at least as much as that interest rate to play even. Just as easy to understand as the exponential growth conundrum. Or so you would think.

But that doesn’t mean that you can always keep issuing enough money to meet your interest payment requirements. Not when a huge part of it is issued as for instance mortgage loans, but very few people buy homes. Not when money is created when banks issue fresh credit to industries, but industries find no market for their products and instead contract.

In other words: if we don’t grow, we will shrink. And that, we are told, is the very definition of armageddon. But why couldn’t we shrink a little and still be comfortable? In theory we could perhaps, but first of all the human mind isn’t made for shrinkage, and second the money we create as credit is virtual, and can disappear as fast as it was created, and into the same nothingness.

If we would for instance consciously choose to shrink by 5%, we’d run a very real risk that we would cause 50% of the money to vanish. The system based on credit will have the tendency to go down like so many dominoes. It has very little resilience and is thus enormously fragile, something we don’t pay attention to when we have growth, and are therefore not prepared for when we no longer do.
And from April 22, 2013:

What Do We Want To Grow Into?

The only good thing about all this is that if and when it becomes clear that there is no growth left in the system, all its one-dimensional advocates, from both the Spend! and the Cut! parties, will disappear into a great void. They have no idea what to do without growth. There is no economics class that teaches them, and they don’t have the brains to come up with an answer themselves.

Indeed, perhaps it’s even true that a “not necessarily growth” situation, simply of its own accord, selects for other “leaders”. That power hungry psychopaths, in all the various degrees to which they float to the top of the dungheap, are wiped out and alienated by such a situation.

That could be a very good thing. It’s on the way there, however, that we will see unimaginable damage, mayhem and bloodshed. The forever and always growth classes have an iron grip on everyone’s lives. If only because everyone believes them. Still, just because they can’t change their ways and views doesn’t mean you can’t. You can see quite easily that, in a material sense, you have more than enough already.

And many of you have clued in to the destruction ever more growth brings to your children’s living world (not to mention their brains). Unfortunately, quite a few then fall for the “more growth, but more greener” delusion. Or some steady state one (we don’t do steady, we don’t stand still).

When you get down to the heart of it, the only reason we need more growth is to pay off our debts. Which we owe largely to the same small group of rich, psychopathic and powerful that incessantly repeats the “need for growth” message, and makes sure it’s the only message available out there. But we will have to have the discussion some day, and it won’t be initiated by the people and powers that rule our societies today; that one’s up to us.

It’s a very simple discussion. You can start it today with Krugman or one of his alleged adversaries: Why do you advocate economic growth? Why do you see a period of non-growth or shrinkage as a necessary evil that needs to be brought down to its knees at – quite literally – all cost?

And what is it you want to grow into? Can you explain that? I’ve never seen that properly defined. Isn’t it perhaps true that if you don’t know the answer to that question, you are by definition blindly chasing a mirage? If you don’t know where you’re going, or why you’re going there, why go at all? Or is that still the sort of issue that can easily be swept under the carpet as “commie”?
So it’s refreshing to see this week a German economist and banker, Dr. Ulrich Salzer, thanks to Tyler Durden, going down that same line of questioning. These questions are long overdue. It’s not just one school of economics or the other failing us, it’s the entire field. Any field that refuses to ponder its most essential questions is per definition dead and useless.

Physicists can explain any time of day why we need Newton’s gravity and Einstein’s relativity in order to make sense of the world, and if anyone can prove them wrong, they’d be welcomed. Economists cannot explain we we need growth, it’s simply assumed to be a given.

Deficit Spending And Money Printing: A German Point Of View

And if the capital markets don’t swallow additional public debt, then the Central Banks will step in eagerly as Investors – regardless if this is in line with their statutes!

The leading macroeconomic Nobel-Laureates, the Central Bankers as well as most Politicians have reduced their economic judgment on how to get the economies in Europe and Japan back to sustainable growth on just two recipes: public investments in infrastructure to be financed by additional public debt and, second, an expansive money market policy based on printing more money and reducing interest rates to zero or even beyond zero to negative rates!

The expected results, backed by the leading macroeconomic wisdom, should be to kick-start economic growth, to induce private industry to invest and banks to lend to private investors, and thereby to reduce unemployment, and get deflationary tendencies back to an inflation rate that is now officially regarded as ideal if it oscillates around 2 % p.a. When and why this “two-percent” benchmark was introduced for the first time I can’t remember, but everybody today takes it for granted and repeats it like as an undisputed target of Central Bank’s money market policy. Included in this assumption is ever more public debt as the guarantor for lasting GDP-growth!

I never understood why macroeconomics should be regarded as an academic discipline if it is in practice reduced to these rather simple theories of how to handle a recession or even deflation! Maybe Alfred Nobel was just as clear-sighted as I am, and consequently never introduced a Nobel-prize for economics. That was done after his death by the Central Bank of Norway, which also contributed the required funds. It still does so, and not the Nobel foundation!

My personal advice is to stop handing out any more Nobel-prizes for economics to any more American professors on any new theory how to steer economic development and sustainable economic growth, because none of them has ever worked.

There is a lot of blame offloaded onto Maynard Keynes by critics of the present ruling opinion of more deficit spending by governments. But I don’t believe that Keynes would approve any of today’s Nobel-Laureates who saw no other way out of recession than by money printing in unlimited amounts and years of deficit spending by already over-indebted economies. According to Keynes public investment on deficit could be regarded as an “ultima ratio” to re-kick-start a slow economy, but he would never have advised any government that is already highly indebted to increase this debt even more!

In his theory, deficit-spending should be a limited action in time and amounts, and directly afterwards this debt should be repaid by the additional tax income from the stronger revenues of industry and private individuals who have profited from the intervention of the State.

But what our economists and central bankers are recommending nowadays is completely different from “short-term-kick-starts” – our systems are so full of the sweet drug of government deficit spending that (like a drug-addict) it constantly needs heavier doses of the same drug!
It was not long ago that the American Treasury Secretary publicly blamed Germany for not using its remaining credit standing for another round of deficit-spending in order to help Italy, France and other Southern European countries. As if more public debt and burning straw in Germany would have any impact on the southern countries’ economies without any serious political and economic reforms in those countries themselves to fight the weakness at its real source!

As long as our “economy doctors” don’t know anything better than to prescribe more drugs instead of getting the patient off the needle and help him to abandon the ever increasing drug doses, we will never get our economies “back to normal”!

We should never forget that at least the European economies had no real problem as long as the public debt to Gross National Product ratio remained within the Maastricht limits of 60% and before liquidity in the banking sector was multiplied without limit, thereby creating big bubbles in the financial assets of the banks which finally led to the financial crisis of 2008.

Japan is the very best example to prove that the therapy of deficit spending and money printing is dangerously wrong: it is now 25 years since Japan has adopted this cure. If anybody needs proof that the prescription was unprofessional and ineffective, he should look at the results to the Japanese economy and its public debt. Although hundreds of billions of Dollars have been spent during this period on programs to stimulate the Japanese economy the effect was that Japan fell from one recession into the next depression and the public debt ratio to GNP has meanwhile reached the astronomic bench mark of 230% (!!), which is double that of Greece and four times higher than the Maastricht criterion!

I am certain that Maynard Keynes would turn in his grave if he knew to what extent his theory was misinterpreted and misused! Of course it’s a big temptation for every politician to utilize the sweet but toxic medicine of deficit spending and more public debt rather than to introduce hard reforms on public budgets, on social spending and other benefits to their voters.

It’s also a big mistake that European governments have disregarded the traditional role of the European Central Bank as the watch-dog against inflation. In creating the ECB, Germany never consented that it should have more responsibilities and more authority than the Deutsche Bundesbank ever had.

It’s just like with deficit spending Keynes had recommended under certain conditions: it may be acceptable if the Central Bank acts as “Lender of last resort” in case of actual liquidity crisis. But this should be strictly on short-term basis. What we experience today is completely contrary to the German (maybe not the U.S.) understanding of the role of the Central Bank. The ECB has now assumed a role not only to protect the value of our common currency against inflation but also to take action as if it is responsible to create economic growth and full employment with instruments like money printing, zero interest rates and unlimited investments in bonds which the free market is rejecting.

We pay a high price for the chimera that we need constant economic growth and that it is a stigma if our GDP-growth is only 1.5% p.a. Can’t we accept that after 50 years of undisturbed peace and continuous prosperity we have reached a certain degree of personal satisfaction where we don’t need a new car every year, another cell-phone, additional furniture, more TV-sets, more laptops etc, etc. Why do we insist upon economic growth, if we don’t actually need the products which are additionally produced every year?

Is it really worth it to increase the already heavy burden of public debt, which our children must service someday, by accepting even more debt in a vain effort to increase public demand? Let’s instead be happy with zero GDP growth, zero inflation and zero growth of public debt! That could be a more rational solution. Why don’t we consider it?
You almost have to step outside of economics, even out of the financial world as a whole, to pose what is the most elementary question about our economy today. That can’t be right.

The most elementary question is not how we can achieve growth, it’s whether we need growth, and what we would need it for that is important enough to destroy our entire societies and economies for. As Salzer says: “Why do we insist upon economic growth, if we don’t actually need the products which are additionally produced every year?” The most elementary question is as simple as that.

I can finish this the way I started it: we need new ideas, new paradigms, to replace the ones that have gotten us the cesspool we find ourselves in, despite the false signals debt and propaganda provide us with. We’re in dire need of fresh blood and smart new ideas to clean up the mess the present ideologies and their puppets and puppetmasters have created.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-07/most-elementary-question-must-not-be-asked

mick silver
7th December 2014, 12:12 PM
http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Advanced-Mongrel-Sanitation.jpgThe basic design of the toilet also seems to have escaped these glorious equals. Yes, many of them use their fingers instead of toilet paper, or even leaves. Coming to a town or city near you

Serpo
7th December 2014, 12:46 PM
F#@k growth..............

expat4ever
7th December 2014, 01:14 PM
WE dont need growth. The puppetmasters need growth. They need it to keep the ponzi scheme we know as the stock market, 401k's, ira's, pensions, social security ect solvent. Our money doesnt pay for our retirement. Our money pays for the last generations retirement and the next generation is supposed to fund us. Of course if you take care of yourself and fund your own retirement then no worries. If not then I would definitely worry if your counting on anything from the above list to help in the golden years.

Perhaps the scariest part of all is that wall street controls most of that except for maybe SS and self directed IRA's. But even the IRA's, if invested in stocks and bonds are subject to wall street manipulation.

Without growth we can go back 100 years, well 102 to before the fed. If things were stable then we wouldnt have inflation. A house would be affordable instead of a 30 year note with outrageous payments. Yea for 30 years you cant take a break from a job or your lose your home. 102 years ago most people bought their homes from saving or borrowing short term, like 5 years was the average mortgage. You also didnt need 100k in education to make 30k a year. Gov wasnt a player in every aspect of our lifes and people took care of themselves. Including retirement. If you saved and or borrowed for 5 years back then you could own your property by the time you were 25 or 30. Gives you 30 years or so to save and accumulate wealth for retirement.
Then along comes the fed. The rest is history. :)

Serpo
7th December 2014, 01:30 PM
What does all this so called growth get you......................a US dollar that is worth 1c of what it was worth 100 yrs ago......................now that is growth.............haha................

They are calling inflation growth ........................

midnight rambler
7th December 2014, 01:32 PM
WE dont need growth. The puppetmasters need growth. They need it to keep the ponzi scheme we know as the stock market, 401k's, ira's, pensions, social security ect solvent. Our money doesnt pay for our retirement. Our money pays for the last generations retirement and the next generation is supposed to fund us. Of course if you take care of yourself and fund your own retirement then no worries. If not then I would definitely worry if your counting on anything from the above list to help in the golden years.

Perhaps the scariest part of all is that wall street controls most of that except for maybe SS and self directed IRA's. But even the IRA's, if invested in stocks and bonds are subject to wall street manipulation.

Without growth we can go back 100 years, well 102 to before the fed. If things were stable then we wouldnt have inflation. A house would be affordable instead of a 30 year note with outrageous payments. Yea for 30 years you cant take a break from a job or your lose your home. 102 years ago most people bought their homes from saving or borrowing short term, like 5 years was the average mortgage. You also didnt need 100k in education to make 30k a year. Gov wasnt a player in every aspect of our lifes and people took care of themselves. Including retirement. If you saved and or borrowed for 5 years back then you could own your property by the time you were 25 or 30. Gives you 30 years or so to save and accumulate wealth for retirement.
Then along comes the fed. The rest is history. :)

Ah come on, everyone knows that we should all be serving our betters - that is our lot in life. /sarc

EE_
7th December 2014, 01:45 PM
The puppetmasters need growth. They need it to keep the ponzi scheme we know as the stock market, 401k's, ira's, pensions, social security ect solvent.

Should we do what we can to keep the ponzi scheme going, so we can watch the slow rot of our society while most of us collect 401k's, ira's, pensions, social security to fund our retirement. Hoping to skate through the rest of our lives knowing we will dump the mess on our children after we've exited this world?

Or, would it be better for us all to lose our entitlements and unite against a common enemy to take the country back now, for the future's sake?

I choose the second scenario.

midnight rambler
7th December 2014, 02:09 PM
I choose the second scenario.

Yeah, *you* WOULD choose that as you're highly motivated like many here*. But in reality how many are so highly motivated as to give up their perks, bennies, comforts, position in the social strata, etc.?? 1%? More? Less?

*hell's belles someone bloviating on here like Sui Juris browbeating others about them being 'statists' (in his view) won't even ditch his state issued ID documents HIMSELF, apparently 'cause he'd be LOST without those state issued ID documents (the irony is that Sui Juris is in fact lost because he apparently does rely on state issued ID docs to establish who he is)

EE_
7th December 2014, 02:16 PM
Yeah, *you* WOULD choose that as you're highly motivated like many here*. But in reality how many are so highly motivated as to give up their perks, bennies, comforts, position in the social strata, etc.?? 1%? More? Less?

*hell's belles someone bloviating on here like Sui Juris browbeating others about them being 'statists' (in his view) won't even ditch his state issued ID documents

Less the 1%
I'm not sure why I even care, but I do.
When I leave this world, I leave no one behind me.
The people that are leaving a legacy behind should be the most angry and willing to give it all up for the future of their families.

expat4ever
7th December 2014, 02:49 PM
I retired a long time ago and dont pay into the system anymore. I also dont take out and even when I hit retirement age in another 15 years or so I still wont take out. I live like I preach. free and I take care of myself. I realized a long time ago I am never going to be rich as in lots of money. On the other hand I am happy and take care of myself br growing my own food, cutting my own wood for heat and I make a little money every year just to buy the things I really need and pay my property taxes. Any extra gets put into metals and tacked away in a safe spot.

If you dont want a lot of shit then you dont need a lot of money.
I'm happy though and have lived a much better life than most everyone I know. Have some great experiences and adventures. Still more to come :)..

Now how do we do away with the current system? Take freedom back and get people to take responsibility for themselves?
I show my friends and family a different way to live. Its caught on with a few of them. Then they show a few and on and on. The hundrend monkey theory and all.

If there's a better way I am all ears.

Turn off the TV
Start growing your own food.
Stop consumerism and buy what you really need.
get rid of the useless cell phones
only buy used cars in good running condition or if your a mechanic buy shitty cars and fix them up so they are running good and sell them at a fair price for cash only.
Only buy houses and land on a land contract and dont create any new money out of thin air.
stop using credit cards

Basically everyone needs to try and structure their lives to live on as little money as possible. Then we will have massive deflation. Housing , taxes, salaries will all need to adjust. Once that happens then people will be able to live free and take care of themselves.

Its taken 102 years to get us into this mess so it'll take awhile for us to get out of it by doing the above. Its all just BS though since noone will even turn the TV off except for those of us that already have.

Serpo
7th December 2014, 03:25 PM
The gov can take their hand outs and shove them where the sun does shine(in their case)

Serpo
7th December 2014, 03:26 PM
I retired a long time ago and dont pay into the system anymore. I also dont take out and even when I hit retirement age in another 15 years or so I still wont take out. I live like I preach. free and I take care of myself. I realized a long time ago I am never going to be rich as in lots of money. On the other hand I am happy and take care of myself br growing my own food, cutting my own wood for heat and I make a little money every year just to buy the things I really need and pay my property taxes. Any extra gets put into metals and tacked away in a safe spot.

If you dont want a lot of shit then you dont need a lot of money.
I'm happy though and have lived a much better life than most everyone I know. Have some great experiences and adventures. Still more to come :)..

Now how do we do away with the current system? Take freedom back and get people to take responsibility for themselves?
I show my friends and family a different way to live. Its caught on with a few of them. Then they show a few and on and on. The hundrend monkey theory and all.

If there's a better way I am all ears.

Turn off the TV
Start growing your own food.
Stop consumerism and buy what you really need.
get rid of the useless cell phones
only buy used cars in good running condition or if your a mechanic buy shitty cars and fix them up so they are running good and sell them at a fair price for cash only.
Only buy houses and land on a land contract and dont create any new money out of thin air.
stop using credit cards

Basically everyone needs to try and structure their lives to live on as little money as possible. Then we will have massive deflation. Housing , taxes, salaries will all need to adjust. Once that happens then people will be able to live free and take care of themselves.

Irs taken 102 years to get us into this mess so it'll take awhile for us to get out of it by doing the above. Its all just BS though since noone will even turn the TV off except for those of us that already have.

Tis the meaning of happiness.........................giving up the more ,more , more mentality ............

expat4ever
7th December 2014, 05:49 PM
One other thing we can do to wake people up is have a dul currency system. One for dollar the other for federal reserve notes.
Right now 1 dollar = 16.30 FRN's

It would be nice to walk into a store and pay either way I choose. Currently it is legal to do so but few is anyone does accept real money.

I would also opt to be paid in real money. Maybe 100 a week or 1 AGE. Taxes are in dollars. 50 weeks at 100 a week and I make 5000 a year. No need to even file a tax return. 9000 or less in earnings and no tax return needs to be filed.
You want to starve the beast? there's your solution.

midnight rambler
7th December 2014, 09:49 PM
Even the ChiComs 'need' growth. From 3.5 years ago -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm7rOKT151Y

crimethink
8th December 2014, 12:28 AM
We don't "need" growth, but endless profit requires endless growth.

singular_me
8th December 2014, 06:24 AM
every boom story was fed by a lie... from the tulip mania up to day.

I already have explained in many threads why a REAL economic system would even out itself constantly, that is is a zero sum game.


expat4ever: WE dont need growth. The puppetmasters need growth

exactly. expecting more returns that what one puts in... is where they get us.

time to bring back an excellent article:
650 Years Ago:
How Venice Rigged the First, and Worst, Global Financial Crash
http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/pbgbardi.htm

and after this massive debt purge, the so-called Renaissance took off. LOL

crimethink
8th December 2014, 12:01 PM
WE dont need growth. The puppetmasters need growth.

If you have stocks and expect dividends, yes, you need growth.

If you expect interest on your savings, CODs, 401ks, and the like, yes, you need growth.

If you own real estate and expect it to increase in value, yes, you need growth.

I suspect most people here "need" growth.

singular_me
8th December 2014, 12:09 PM
yes dear EE, thats the dilemma we are faced with. I am with you here :)

losing everything = winning everything

I got rid of almost everything to get used to living with less and according to serendipity. No fear... I am prepared.


Should we do what we can to keep the ponzi scheme going, so we can watch the slow rot of our society while most of us collect 401k's, ira's, pensions, social security to fund our retirement. Hoping to skate through the rest of our lives knowing we will dump the mess on our children after we've exited this world?

Or, would it be better for us all to lose our entitlements and unite against a common enemy to take the country back now, for the future's sake?

I choose the second scenario.

EE_
8th December 2014, 01:23 PM
yes dear EE, thats the dilemma we are faced with. I am with you here :)

losing everything = winning everything

I got rid of almost everything to get used to living with less and according to serendipity. No fear... I am prepared.

I think it's pretty awesome/brave for you to do what most wouldn't dare. If I remember correctly, you gave up your New York City life, good job etc., to go on the road and experience where life takes you. You have the heart/spirit of a Gypsy.

I'm sure you must have had faith in your skills that would get you by.

Has it been rewarding, or harder then you thought it might be? What do you miss most?

I'm not so different in the way I move around to new places and new people.
Although, no way I could give up everything I have.

My skills have allowed me to always pick up extra cash when I need it. I can pretty much build and fix anything.

Once people see me working and my quality work, they seem to come out of the woodwork (pun intended) to ask me to do something for them.

Other's I know, keep trying to get me working full time again. Designers, builders asking me to go to work. That's not going to happen!

My friend wants me to build another home for him in Fl. Thinking about that one. It would be to GC it and some odds and ends.

Recently I built a deck for someone and wired an out building for power and lights from the house panel. Now they want a pair of fancy barn doors in the next couple weeks.
I'll build them at home in my garage.

Here's the deck, 10' up on the side of a hill.

Serpo
8th December 2014, 01:43 PM
Is it really growth or heavily disguised inflation..................

brosil
8th December 2014, 02:04 PM
I'd like to recommend a book called Neoliberal Economists Must Die. Officially, it's a Sci-Fi book but the subtext deals with uncontrolled growth and it's problems. I think I'll buy some more of the books in the series.

expat4ever
8th December 2014, 02:08 PM
If you have stocks and expect dividends, yes, you need growth.

If you expect interest on your savings, CODs, 401ks, and the like, yes, you need growth.

If you own real estate and expect it to increase in value, yes, you need growth.

I suspect most people here "need" growth.

As serpo just pointed out, is it growth or inflation?
As I have pointed out before 25 cent gas in 1964 when I was born is still 25 cent gas if paying in silver.
Debt fueled growth when someone goes and charges a new TV or car or home is just an inflated money supply.
That 100k house in 1999 is now 250-300k today. Is that real growth or just someone saying your house is worth more so you can borrow more money? If the banks shut down tomorrow then that same 300k house is now worth whatever someone can and will pay in cash. More than likely about 30k or so. Even the Gov understands this which is the reason they will keep the banks alfoat at any cost. When RE crashes and go to its real value then its game over for the whole thing. So many things are funded by RE prices via property tax at the local level that it would create anarchy overnight. Probably not a bad thing.

GDP is all fiction. 30-40% of it is Gov spending via taxation of the rest of us. Without Gov GDP probably would be similar, it just wouldnt be spent on the MIC. Part of the increase every year is also the 3% inflation rate mandated by congress for the fed to follow.

EE_
8th December 2014, 02:24 PM
That 100k house in 1999 is now 250-300k today.

Depends if you bought it in California...that 100k home might be worth $1,000,000. That's growth!
All the real estate money seems to be flowing to what they call the "golden horseshoe" CA, AZ, NV, TX, FL and the Carolina's.

CA people would be amazed what a million would get you in NC...but alas, it's not the magical place CA is.
Hard to compare living in a million dollar crammed in the neighborhood house in "magical" CA, to a million dollar 100 acre ranch home with stream, ponds and several large outbuildings.

crimethink
8th December 2014, 02:57 PM
As serpo just pointed out, is it growth or inflation?

Doesn't matter. Nearly everyone who bitches about fiat currency & fractional reserve banking & usury expects for themselves money without work, often called dividends & interest.

Serpo
8th December 2014, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=EE_;744002]Depends if you bought it in California...that 100k home might be worth $1,000,000. That's growth!




Inflation.............................how is a house going up in price relate to growth but is more likely inflation as bananas have gone up as well , it looks ,feels like growth but they way I see it ,it is inflation.....................................basi cally

EE_
8th December 2014, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE]


Inflation.............................how is a house going up in price relate to growth but is more likely inflation as bananas have gone up as well , it looks ,feels like growth but they way I see it ,it is inflation.....................................basi cally

Economic growth to the elite, relates to more debt, spending, more profits.
Most of us would be content to just live with what we need and let the economy service those needs.
But big business always needs more, more profit, more share value.

Your home rising in value 10X in 15 years because of demand is far out-pacing the rest of the country.
I would say your own personal economy/fnances has grown greatly over most other places. That's growth you can count yourself.

Serpo
8th December 2014, 07:27 PM
My place goes up 300$ a week due to inflation according to the council who like to give me rates.


Real inflation isint listening to the governments lies , it carries on regardless.


Take a look at the dow ect ,inflation becomes the overall growth factor .




They are all want growth otherwise inflation will send them backwards , so it becomes an endless battle.


Dump the system now...........

singular_me
8th December 2014, 08:41 PM
the deck and the house are awesome, indeed you are very talented. It is always enriching and relaxing to work with natural materials such as wood or earth in my case. I didnt know you are a carpenter. Indeed with such skills you could travel all around the planet.

This past summer season, my landscaping activity was really booming due to the word of mouth, I had to turn down work. Goes from weed whacking to redesigning whole gardens. Not sure yet but next spring I could manage a permaculture farm/property. If that happen$, I will target ecuador as my next step. I dont pay rent/utilities as have become a house-sitter in high demand :) . Serendipity always provides me with a home, often off the grid. My biggest expenses are my 1500 dodge ram truck and organic food. The first 2 years were tough as I was an intern on farms, working 40H a week for room and board, no income and sold my stash of silver bought at $8/oz for $58/oz as a result. But I made it and now feel like I can grow food anywhere I go. Nomad and earth custodian is how I see myself now.


yes, like you said, I left everything NYC had to offer behind, but I will be seeing my ex and relatives at xmas. Will stay in big apple for a week.

On a less positive note, 3 months ago my 7 year partner and I took a vacation from each other.... dont know if it is permanent at this stage but we still hang out as friends and work together, so maybe, maybe not ...

edit: I also was able to afford this year a flight ticket for my 30yo son living in EU to visit me along with his trips to los angeles and las vegs nevada. When he left in sept, I was kinda broke, but thats okay :)



I think it's pretty awesome/brave for you to do what most wouldn't dare. If I remember correctly, you gave up your New York City life, good job etc., to go on the road and experience where life takes you. You have the heart/spirit of a Gypsy.

I'm sure you must have had faith in your skills that would get you by.

Has it been rewarding, or harder then you thought it might be? What do you miss most?

I'm not so different in the way I move around to new places and new people.
Although, no way I could give up everything I have.

My skills have allowed me to always pick up extra cash when I need it. I can pretty much build and fix anything.

Once people see me working and my quality work, they seem to come out of the woodwork (pun intended) to ask me to do something for them.

Other's I know, keep trying to get me working full time again. Designers, builders asking me to go to work. That's not going to happen!

My friend wants me to build another home for him in Fl. Thinking about that one. It would be to GC it and some odds and ends.

Recently I built a deck for someone and wired an out building for power and lights from the house panel. Now they want a pair of fancy barn doors in the next couple weeks.
I'll build them at home in my garage.

Here's the deck, 10' up on the side of a hill.