How do I pick a replacement for my TBTF bank?

[KenJackson]

I have an account in one of the top TBTF (too big to fail) banks. At least two top economists and a number of general prognosticators have suggested the banks have more derivatives exposure today than they did in 2007 and the government is in in a weaker position to fix a failure. Which means in a crisis there will be a "bail in". That is, the money will come from a government-sanctioned theft of investors' savings.

So I'm going to open an account in a smaller bank and close my TBTF account.

But how do I know if the little bank around the corner is in good shape? I've seen several lists of banks which show various metrics including derivatives exposure, but the lists are always of the top 10 or 25 banks. The two or three local banks I might choose are never listed.

So does anyone know a site that gives financial details of little banks? Or is there a way to easily query relevant government information?


BTW, here's a fascinating graphic (http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/derivatives/bank_exposure.html) showing banks' derivative exposure in 2012 as stacks of pallets of $100 bills. The stacks are bigger than some of the sky scraper bank HQs.

7100

[Cebu_4_2]

Saw all that shit before.

1) Limit what money you have in banks

2) use credit unions

3) Don't use banks

Cash in hand is better than digits on screen, 100% of the time.

[Glass]

credit unions can be good. Often as a customer you are also a member. Being a member could be a good thing if they mutualize and then demutualize for privatisation or sale. You would automatically be given shares that you can sell on the market when it floats.

So keep an eye on the management goings on with credit unions as they can often be sold in this way. These activities also attract carpet baggers who can dilute the value pretty quickly.

[pioneer]

I have an account in one of the top TBTF (too big to fail) banks.....But how do I know if the little bank around the corner is in good shape? I've seen several lists of banks which show various metrics including derivatives exposure, but the lists are always of the top 10 or 25 banks. The two or three local banks I might choose are never listed.

if i were to scout around for other options, what i would do is the following. i would contact the little bank i'm interested in investigating, and ask the branch manager or asst branch manager who their "correspondent banking relationship" is with.

that should smoke out the name of the larger bank affiliation. the way i understand it whenever i've had the odd occasion in past years to receive wire transfers, i've always had to provide the correspondent's bank routing number to the party wiring funds to me.

might try this.

[Shami-Amourae]

I would try to do literally all of the above. I have money in a Big Bank, a Regional Bank, and a Credit Union, (three banks total.) I think it's smartest to diversity. There may be a financial failure and the Big Banks may gobble up the Regional Banks and Credit unions. What I'm saying is the Big Banks may be the safest place contrary to popular opinion. There's no safe bet, so I prefer diversifying.

[crimethink]

http://www.ncua.gov/ncuamapping/pages/ncuagovmapping.aspx

And, the Bank of Serta or the Bank of Sentry (Safe), insured by Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Mossberg, and/or Remington, are safer than any bank or even credit union, in the sense that you still control the money.

A credit union is a tool to use the System against itself. It is not to be trusted beyond what you must.

[crimethink]

What I'm saying is the Big Banks may be the safest place contrary to popular opinion.

If one has no morals & desires "safe(r)" banking, filling up one's accounts (checking, savings, CDs, etc.) at JP Morgan Chase or Shitibank is probably a safe bet, as those will simply never be allowed to collapse. However, keeping large amounts of cash in banks or credit unions is gambling, as hair cuts (across-the-board reduction) & bank holidays will likely be seen in the not-too-distant future.

Always keep in mind that demand accounts are not your property "legally." They are the property of the bank or credit union. You only have a creditor relationship with them. If the bank goes under, participates in a bank holiday, or simply chooses not to release "your" cash, your only recourse is through the FDIC or the court system, civil or bankruptcy. In the case of the latter, prepare to be declared an "unsecured creditor" last in line behind "more important" creditors.

[Twisted Titan]

Just keep enough to pay bills and do your business.

Anything of a saving nature is stuffed a coffe can ,shoebox or matteress.


Going foward the ability to be liquid will be paramount.

And for a breif window of time.

Cash will be king .

I would risk my cash to fire or theaf in the street as i have recourse on both.

If the gubbermint steals it ...there is little i can do.

[mick silver]

Buy silver and gold when you can

[gunDriller]

i have accounts with Umpqua and JP Morgan Chase.

JP M is as you would expect. They inspired me to register the domain name 'chaise predatory lending', which i don't expect to flesh out till 2015 or 2016.


JP Morgan is highly predatory, like B of A.

all the mistakes Umpqua Bank has made were related to sloppiness, lack of an instinct for excellence.


i'll take sloppy over predatory anyday.

[Silver Rocket Bitches!]

The FDIC has a fund of $33 billion to insure $7 trillion in deposits. You sure you need a bank?

[KenJackson]

I have money in a Big Bank, a Regional Bank, and a Credit Union, (three banks total.) I think it's smartest to diversity. ... There's no safe bet, so I prefer diversifying.

This is wise. I didn't mention that I also have a checking account in an out-of-state bank that doesn't have any branches--only a website. It's a small bank that survived 9/11/01 and the slaughter of '08, so I have confidence in them. Half my paycheck is direct-deposited to that account and half to the account in the big bank.

In fact I have spread my savings and investments thin. I have money market accounts in two other on-line banks, and stocks and ETFs in four on-line brokerages. I even have some hidden in my house. On the one hand, it seems very wise to just store it all in the house--I sure wouldn't be loosing much interest. But I would feel awfully vulnerable to fires, burglaries, riots and theft by any contractors I might hire to work in my house.

I want to maintain my diversity by simply replacing the big bank with a small local bank with local offices that I can go to if ever needed. (I can only think of two occasions in the past two decades when I visited the bank to talk to a person, but I think it's very wise to maintain the capability.)

But I was hoping that rather than give me advice on keeping money out of banks or buying PMs (yes, I do), someone would offer up a page on the website like the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (http://http://www.occ.gov/) they found helpful, or the Conference of State Bank Supervisors (http://www.csbs.org/), or a private rating agency like BankRate.com (http://www.bankrate.com/). I've looked at these, but they have a daunting amount of information and I haven't found what I'm looking for.

[crimethink]

But I would feel awfully vulnerable to fires, burglaries, riots and theft by any contractors I might hire to work in my house.


That is why you have an in-wall, in-the-floor, or even well-bolted-to-studs fire safe.

You can defend your assets from street thugs. You have absolutely no defense from the government or the corporations. If they decide to take it, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.




But I was hoping that rather than give me advice on keeping money out of banks or buying PMs (yes, I do), someone would offer up a page on the website like the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (http://http://www.occ.gov/) they found helpful, or the Conference of State Bank Supervisors (http://www.csbs.org/), or a private rating agency like BankRate.com (http://www.bankrate.com/). I've looked at these, but they have a daunting amount of information and I haven't found what I'm looking for.

You seriously think those are relevant? AIG wasn't "in trouble." WaMu was "helped" over the cliff by JP Morgan Chase. Any institution insured by the FDIC or NCUA is sufficient for "routine" collapse, regardless of their reported financial condition. In an economic catastrophe, you will not be accessing your cash from any institution, no matter how "well capitalized."

[Neuro]

If a too big to fail banks fail, it would probably drag the whole financial system with it. Thus your money isn't safe anywhere, apart from on your self if you can defend yourself. Preferably in a hard currency like gold or silver, or even copper, even paper money will hold its value for some time, until people realize that the U.S. government and Federal Reserve bank that backs it doesn't exist in any capacity to back shit even anymore...

[Buddha]

I have nothing to do with banks at all anymore. The local grocery store cashes checks for less than 1% does money orders for 1$ and also pays utility bills for 1$

[KenJackson]

I have nothing to do with banks at all anymore. The local grocery store cashes checks for less than 1% does money orders for 1$ and also pays utility bills for 1$
Wow! You're paying a lot of money for things I get for free with a bank.

I'm not willing to be a cave man. I'm just trying to take reasonable precautions.

[Hitch]

I believe anything in a bank is up for grabs by the elite.

Think Cyprus. Think Greece. When it happens here don't claim to be a victim caught off guard, you should know this by now.

[Publico]

Keep just enough in the bank to pay your monthly bills, put the rest under your mattress.

[crimethink]

Wow! You're paying a lot of money for things I get for free with a bank.

I'm not willing to be a cave man. I'm just trying to take reasonable precautions.

You get nothing "free" with a bank. "No extra cost," sure. But nothing "free." When JPMC looted WaMu, they promptly eliminated free checking. I see Chase charges $10 or $25 per month for their checking accounts, and they waive that fee if you allow them to control your money for their purposes. So, indeed, nothing "free." And whatever you do, don't make an honest mistake - you'll get nailed with multiple fees. Actually, sometimes they make the mistake, and charge you anyways.

So, Buddha may pay out of pocket for maximum privacy and control of his money. Sounds like a pretty good deal. Check Into Cash has been running free money orders for most of this year, and I imagine there are similar places, too...actually, yeah, come to think of it, a regional grocery store change gives you the $1 back when you buy something. I use a credit union to cash checks, and that's all - they're not happy when I refuse to deposit most of it, but oh well, I'm a "member-owner."

Cave man? That's what you think of us who refuse to do business with criminal enterprises like banks? You find no culpability for yourself in giving aid & comfort to such criminal enterprises which are wrecking the country and the world?

[Neuro]

Wow! You're paying a lot of money for things I get for free with a bank.

I'm not willing to be a cave man. I'm just trying to take reasonable precautions.
You give good reasons for staying hooked up with the machine... You pay smaller service fees!

[crimethink]

You give good reasons for staying hooked up with the machine... You pay smaller service fees!

I don't want to engage in a bash-Ken-over-the-head campaign, but such sentiments are really the problem with our civilization. A little extra work and some perceived extra cost are "too much" to not only increase one's privacy significantly as well as maintain control over one's money, but, also help to fight these bastards where it actually matters, even if miniscule.

[Cebu_4_2]

Fees.... the cr union here is much better than banks but I had Fedex snipe fees out of my account, that I had sent a check for and the bill was paid thus over drafting the account. Anyways 1 check I paid cleared last and their bank put the check through 3 times, at 32.00 a pop. No free ride no forgiveness just a straight fuck you from the Cr Union. So $96.00 charge on a 19 dollar check. Fuck Fedex and Fuck the Cr Union. If I didn't own a business I would not have anything to do with either of those fucks. The old Cr Union would have waived the fees but here it's a different world. I balance my accounts very good and this shouldn't have happened but time after time Fedex jacks me up.

[Hitch]

I don't want to engage in a bash-Ken-over-the-head campaign,

Ken. Fuck Banks. We should have a rite of passage, new guy, campaign, but just consider yourself getting off easy here. Honestly, asking which bank is good on a forum like this, is just asking for an ass kicking.

[Shami-Amourae]

You get nothing "free" with a bank. "No extra cost," sure. But nothing "free." When JPMC looted WaMu, they promptly eliminated free checking. I see Chase charges $10 or $25 per month for their checking accounts, and they waive that fee if you allow them to control your money for their purposes. So, indeed, nothing "free." And whatever you do, don't make an honest mistake - you'll get nailed with multiple fees. Actually, sometimes they make the mistake, and charge you anyways.

So, Buddha may pay out of pocket for maximum privacy and control of his money. Sounds like a pretty good deal. Check Into Cash has been running free money orders for most of this year, and I imagine there are similar places, too...actually, yeah, come to think of it, a regional grocery store change gives you the $1 back when you buy something. I use a credit union to cash checks, and that's all - they're not happy when I refuse to deposit most of it, but oh well, I'm a "member-owner."

Cave man? That's what you think of us who refuse to do business with criminal enterprises like banks? You find no culpability for yourself in giving aid & comfort to such criminal enterprises which are wrecking the country and the world?
Chase charges you fees if you don't keep certain minimum balances and stuff like that in your account. As long as you read up on these and don't fuck up, you'll be fine.

Personally I've loved my experience with Chase. And YES I do bank with them. I have one of those Amazon Chase Credit Cards. It lets you get 3% back on all of your Amazon purchases, plus you get 2% back for gas/pharmacies, and 1% for everything else. I'm saving hundreds of dollars using it every year and I pay all my payments on time so I've never had to pay any fees to Chase. I'm literally profiting off of them (so far.) I do all of my spending on the Chase account and do my savings on the other account pretty much (just keep enough in at a time to pay for stuff.) I've made probably a couple thousand dollars off of Chase doing this.

You guys are gonna hate me now huh?

[Hitch]

(so far.)

This. Banking is "I'm happy it's easy and everything works...so far".

Musical chairs. I've grabbed my chair, you best grab yours before the music stops.

[crimethink]

Chase charges you fees if you don't keep certain minimum balances and stuff like that in your account. As long as you read up on these and don't fuck up, you'll be fine.


Translation: "let us use your money for our purposes, and we will 'graciously' waive the monthly fee."

Shami, to me, and most of us here, "fucking up" begins at "Welcome to Chase, how may I help you? I'd like to open an account." :)




Personally I've loved my experience with Chase. And YES I do bank with them. I have one of those Amazon Chase Credit Cards. It lets you get 3% back on all of your Amazon purchases, plus you get 2% back for gas/pharmacies, and 1% for everything else. I'm saving hundreds of dollars using it every year and I pay all my payments on time so I've never had to pay any fees to Chase. I'm literally profiting off of them (so far.) I do all of my spending on the Chase account and do my savings on the other account pretty much (just keep enough in at a time to pay for stuff.) I've made probably a couple thousand dollars off of Chase doing this.

You guys are gonna hate me now huh?

Hate you? No. But I am shaking my head. I just don't understand you. You are totally clued in on so many things. But banking with the Beast? Why?!

You realize that that "cash back" is happening because Chase robs people with interest & fees, right? Including merchants. I imagine in your business you know about transaction fees. I haven't had an interest-bearing account since I was in college...because profiting off of someone else's misfortune is wrong.

[Neuro]

Chase charges you fees if you don't keep certain minimum balances and stuff like that in your account. As long as you read up on these and don't fuck up, you'll be fine.

Personally I've loved my experience with Chase. And YES I do bank with them. I have one of those Amazon Chase Credit Cards. It lets you get 3% back on all of your Amazon purchases, plus you get 2% back for gas/pharmacies, and 1% for everything else. I'm saving hundreds of dollars using it every year and I pay all my payments on time so I've never had to pay any fees to Chase. I'm literally profiting off of them (so far.) I do all of my spending on the Chase account and do my savings on the other account pretty much (just keep enough in at a time to pay for stuff.) I've made probably a couple thousand dollars off of Chase doing this.

You guys are gonna hate me now huh?
Didn't know JPM was such a great benefactor to humanity, giving away money like that. I thought of them as vampires sucking life out of the economy, now I understand it's the opposite. Thank you for showing me the way!

[Buddha]

Wow! You're paying a lot of money for things I get for free with a bank.

I'm not willing to be a cave man. I'm just trying to take reasonable precautions.

I'm not willing to feed the beast. Alot of money? all in all less then the "monthly maintenance costs" associated with my account at a large regional bank.

I want to literally put my money where my mouth is. I'm disappointed in some here, Shami of course. Will be one of the first ones to call jews on their shit, but get 3% back on an Amazon C.C. and no monthly fees at Chase and it's o.k. Here take my money and fractionally lend it, make money off of it and use it to ultimately further degrade the life on this planet, just don't charge me for it LOL.

[Shami-Amourae]

Didn't know JPM was such a great benefactor to humanity, giving away money like that. I thought of them as vampires sucking life out of the economy, now I understand it's the opposite. Thank you for showing me the way!

You're welcome newly enlightened one.

I get your concerns. I spend most of my money on real things I can hold onto (guns, ammo, food, food storage, supplements, and other preparedness stuff.)

If you buy anything online you pretty much have to use PayPal, Visa, Mastercard, and so on. All of these things are controlled by big evil super scary people. You pretty much have to live like a hobo to be "righteous". I don't get where you guys are wagging your fingers at me. You can't tell me you do SOME of this shit too. I'm always very upfront and honest about what I believe even when it hurts me on this forum.

If I could buy everything with Bitcoin I would. I was the first one to bring up and promote that on these forums but that hasn't caught on like I hoped it would so we're still stuck in this system. If you can try to take advantage of an unfair/unjust system in anyway you can, no matter how small I don't see a problem with it. Protesting isn't going to do a fucking thing with the current numbers we have other than hurt you.

I don't think the system will collapse (in the near term at least) like so many people here think. The Elites wealth and control is tied up in it so they don't benefit in anyway by their system going down. You can live as a free man but you'll be a hobo, destitute, and cold. I see the direction of things, the hopelessness of the state of humanity and realize we are enslaved no matter what. As a survival strategy I'm leaning more to playing along and feinting being a drooling moron to blend in as much as possible so the storm passes over me.

Oh yeah, and bankers aren't the main thing sucking the blood out of the economy. Actually its automation doing that. Automation is growing exponentially and its the driving force that's destroying the world economy, not the bankers. The bankers ironically may end up saving the day with some minimum income thing to keep their current scheme afloat.

[KenJackson]

When JPMC looted WaMu, they promptly eliminated free checking. I see Chase charges $10 or $25 per month for their checking ...
You're talking about the TBTF banks. The very purpose of this thread, if you check back, is to help me get out from under the heal of a TBTF bank. (And BTW, I was delighted when WaMu went under. My mortgage was sold to them without my permission and I had to fight them constantly to get back what they were overcharging me.)


Cave man? That's what you think of us who refuse to do business with criminal enterprises like banks? You find no culpability for yourself in giving aid & comfort to such criminal enterprises which are wrecking the country and the world?
Banking is a convenience and a service. In exchange for that service, you have to either pay a fee or allow them to use some of your money. The banks don't owe you the valuable services they provide. But you are certainly right that the big banks, especially the FED, are run by criminals that are wrecking the world's economy.

I got my first ATM bank card when I was 18 (before most people had ever heard of a bank machine). And I've had my paycheck direct deposited to a bank account my whole adult life."Cave man" is an exaggeration, but life without the convenience of banking services would definitely be (will be?) a step backward into more backward times. But it's no exaggeration at all to say that modern technology conveniences, including banking, allow us to live better than all the kings of centuries past.

I'm just trying to find a small, honorable bank to patronize instead of the big criminal bank I use today. (Everybody keeps mentioning credit unions, but they're more scarce around me.)

[Twisted Titan]

I have a wells fartgo acct for north of 17 years.

I wont change the acct because i know the number by heart.

There are multiple ways to fight the beast.

I usually help people make purchases that dont have a digital footprint get stuff online.

So that is my way of helping patriots.

I use to boycot walfart but now i dont.

I dubble down on long term prep supplies cause they are dirt cheap so when the hammer falls i can be one of the few who can be charitable to others.( i will let the higher power be my guide as to who i will share with but i know i will do )

[KenJackson]

Ken. F*** Banks. We should have a rite of passage, new guy, campaign, but just consider yourself getting off easy here. Honestly, asking which bank is good on a forum like this, is just asking for an ass kicking.

Do you think you're hurting me?

There have actually been a couple helpful suggestions in this thred. And some posts have confessed the use of banks, even TBTF banks, while roundly criticizing the use of banks. Amusing.

If I may wax philosophical for a moment, the Lord has given us a probabilistic universe. There are risks and potential rewards in everything. Keeping money in a bank has risks. Not having a bank account has risks. Today's modern conveniences leave digital footprints that could be used against us, but life before those modern conveniences was more dangerous and much less convenient. Not having a gun could be dangerous, but holding a gun in your hand makes you a target and gives your assailant a defense that will dupe many juries.

People who wear Nazi uniforms may demand that I not use a bank. I don't care. I'm just trying to balance risks and rewards to me. It's up to each one of us to weigh the risks and rewards.

The people in this forum give me a valuable perspective that you rarely encounter in the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland.

[crimethink]

If you buy anything online you pretty much have to use PayPal, Visa, Mastercard, and so on. All of these things are controlled by big evil super scary people. You pretty much have to live like a hobo to be "righteous". I don't get where you guys are wagging your fingers at me. You can't tell me you do SOME of this shit too. I'm always very upfront and honest about what I believe even when it hurts me on this forum.


Using PayPal or credit cards =/= willingly banking with JP Morgan Chase.



You can live as a free man but you'll be a hobo, destitute, and cold. I see the direction of things, the hopelessness of the state of humanity and realize we are enslaved no matter what. As a survival strategy I'm leaning more to playing along and feinting being a drooling moron to blend in as much as possible so the storm passes over me.


The storm will not pass over you. You, like me, are nothing to them.

How far is too far? Will you accept a microchip? A tattoo? Telescreens in every room of your home?

Not banking with the greatest criminal organizations on Earth today costs almost nothing in effort & money.




Oh yeah, and bankers aren't the main thing sucking the blood out of the economy. Actually its automation doing that. Automation is growing exponentially and its the driving force that's destroying the world economy, not the bankers. The bankers ironically may end up saving the day with some minimum income thing to keep their current scheme afloat.

Automation, like guns, is morally valueless. Those who control them use them for good or bad. Automation could make it possible for everyone to relax on the beach all day long, but that's not going to happen, because some people want it all. These people are part of the same self-appointed elite as the banksters.

No, Shami, the banksters and other corporatists won't "save the day with a minimum income." Billions of us will be "deleted." With automation, an unnecessary "evil" (to them) can be eliminated. The promise of technology, to make things better for humanity, is abandoned, as it always has been. It will be used to amass power & profit in the hands of a tiny elite.

[crimethink]

You're talking about the TBTF banks. The very purpose of this thread, if you check back, is to help me get out from under the heal of a TBTF bank. (And BTW, I was delighted when WaMu went under. My mortgage was sold to them without my permission and I had to fight them constantly to get back what they were overcharging me.)


A "local" for-profit bank charges comparable fees with similar rules as JPMC. In general, banks see you as a sheep to be sheared, no matter how big or small.

As for your glee in seeing WaMu get destroyed by a world-enemy, I hope you don't have some delusion that any bank would have been "nice" to you when you "owed" them money. I review local court records routinely - lots of entries of local, smaller banks as plaintiffs, more often than the bigger ones. As for "asking your permission," your mortgage had terms within it allowing it to be transferred; when you do business with a bank, you do it by their terms, the terms of the System, not just WaMu. For all WaMu's faults, they were always friendly and helped a great many of my clients when bigger banks didn't give a shit.




Banking is a convenience and a service. In exchange for that service, you have to either pay a fee or allow them to use some of your money. The banks don't owe you the valuable services they provide.


This sounds like talking points written by the American Bankers Association. :rolleyes:

Finance should be a public utility, not a for-profit money-making and control mechanism. ACH costs almost nothing. Refusal to pay overdrafts costs almost nothing (not "zero," but infinitesimally less than a penny). The "valuable services" cost pennies per month. The interest gained by fake, fraudulent "loans" of money they don't have reimburses costs thousands or millions of times over. That's not even counting the rape-level fees they charge.

Banks, whether big or small, work for the parasites known as shareholders, not you.




But you are certainly right that the big banks, especially the FED, are run by criminals that are wrecking the world's economy.


"Guido" is no less culpable than the Boss.




I got my first ATM bank card when I was 18 (before most people had ever heard of a bank machine). And I've had my paycheck direct deposited to a bank account my whole adult life."Cave man" is an exaggeration, but life without the convenience of banking services would definitely be (will be?) a step backward into more backward times. But it's no exaggeration at all to say that modern technology conveniences, including banking, allow us to live better than all the kings of centuries past.


LOL - modern banking is an anchor on advanced technology. The self-appointed elite that runs banks, government and all corporations have rigged their system so that using a bank is a requirement, not a luxurious convenience. If these bastards wanted a "better life" for us, they wouldn't attack alternative currencies, from silver to BitCoin.




I'm just trying to find a small, honorable bank to patronize instead of the big criminal bank I use today.

Bank and honorable are inherently mutually-exclusive.



(Everybody keeps mentioning credit unions, but they're more scarce around me.)

What is your ZIP Code or at least county & state? I will find you one or more.

[crimethink]

DAnd some posts have confessed the use of banks, even TBTF banks, while roundly criticizing the use of banks. Amusing.

Not amusing. Pathetic. It's a quintessential example of why we are f**ked, and will remain f**ked.

If people can't take a simple action like turning off the Talmudvision, we're done.

If people can't take a simple action like closing their bank accounts, we're done. And to do business with world-enemies like JP Morgan Chase or Wells Fargo?! Talk about giving aid & comfort to the Enemy.

Switching to a credit union costs almost nothing other than an hour or two of your time. But some people can't even be bothered to do that.

[Shami-Amourae]

I'm honestly afraid the Big Banks are so powerful they will one day outlaw small Regional Banks and Credit Unions.

My point is, that the "alternatives" to Big Banks may not be safe.

[mick silver]

buy gold and silver when you have the funds . I will make a silver door stop before I leave all my funds in a bank . paint the bitch black and call it a day . banks are for paying bills with funds . buy land gold silver

[crimethink]

I'm honestly afraid the Big Banks are so powerful they will one day outlaw small Regional Banks and Credit Unions.

My point is, that the "alternatives" to Big Banks may not be safe.

They "might" outlaw gold & silver, too, like they had Rosenfeld do with gold way back when. Have you cashed in all your metals?

I'll keep my credit union until they outlaw it. And when they do, it's cash-only for me. It's largely cash-only for me, now.

[Neuro]

I'm honestly afraid the Big Banks are so powerful they will one day outlaw small Regional Banks and Credit Unions.

My point is, that the "alternatives" to Big Banks may not be safe.
Who cares about what happens tomorrow if you can earn a couple of percents on everything you purchase on a Chase-Amazon card today? Feed the beast because you get a cash-back, and probably the alternatives are unsafe, because the beast is so powerful...

[Hitch]

I'm honestly afraid the Big Banks are so powerful they will one day outlaw small Regional Banks and Credit Unions.

My point is, that the "alternatives" to Big Banks may not be safe.

We saw that starting to happen already. Remember Osoab's old bank failure friday thread? When all the little banks collapsed, the TBTF banks, .gov funded of course, gobbled them up.

So during that engineered collapse, the big banks ended up even more powerful. They are all in bed with each other. It this point, it's all a big joke. Nothing in any bank is safe. For most of us, banking is a necessary evil. There's no way around it, you are feeding the beast.

[Shami-Amourae]

They "might" outlaw gold & silver, too, like they had Rosenfeld do with gold way back when. Have you cashed in all your metals?

I'll keep my credit union until they outlaw it. And when they do, it's cash-only for me. It's largely cash-only for me, now.

A huge percentage of my wealth is in Gold/Silver. I feel I'm diversified into it enough, even though the current prices are a steal.

I really want to get some land/real estate here in Idaho.

I also want to spend money on a CNC machine or a 3D Printer and work on starting a 2nd business in Real Life. If I'm going to spend more money, I want to invest it in business or my literal health (supplements, health foods, and so on.)

[gunDriller]

A huge percentage of my wealth is in Gold/Silver. I feel I'm diversified into it enough, even though the current prices are a steal.

I really want to get some land/real estate here in Idaho.

I also want to spend money on a CNC machine or a 3D Printer and work on starting a 2nd business in Real Life. If I'm going to spend more money, I want to invest it in business or my literal health (supplements, health foods, and so on.)


what kind of business ?

[Hitch]

I also want to spend money on a CNC machine or a 3D Printer and work on starting a 2nd business in Real Life. If I'm going to spend more money, I want to invest it in business or my literal health (supplements, health foods, and so on.)

That's a real good idea. If you can work CNC, or especially 3D printing, you can make tangible goods that you can barter and sell if needed.

You will always be producing something, regardless. Think about possibly replacement gun parts with the CNC maybe? Are you thinking of another income during a collapse environment?

My goal is to buy a boat to charter out. The problem is I need to take a loan out, get in bed with the banks, to do this. I'll keep saving for this goal, but might take a couple of years to get the funds. My business might not be great during a collapse, but giving folks lifts to where they need to go, ie getting them out of dodge might be enough reward.

[KenJackson]

Finance should be a public utility, not a for-profit money-making and control mechanism.

Ah! Now we've arrived at the core point.

If finance were a public utility, then the government would own the only bank. There would be no competition. The bank would be fascist.

If finance, then what about medical services? Should the government pay all healthcare costs? Should the government decides who gets surgery and who doesn't? Do you like Obama's fascist healthcare law?

While we're at it, why not have the government provide our food, housing and transportation? Gosh, maybe Stalin's Russia wasn't so bad after all.

No. Banks provide a service for a profit. You can live without it if you're stubborn and you want to. But most people today want to buy some convenience. Few grow their own vegetables today, less raise their own beef. It's much easier to just buy all your food.

The problem isn't the model of service for profit (also known as the free market or capitalism). The problem is the criminals who haven't been brought to justice yet.


Bank and honorable are inherently mutually-exclusive.
Shame on you for disparaging the integrity of honest people by painting them all with a broad brush.

[crimethink]

For most of us, banking is a necessary evil. There's no way around it, you are feeding the beast.

I aim to cost the Babylon System more than it makes off of me. I believe I am succeeding. Balances under $100 are infuriating to banksters. My "deposits" are basically placeholders.

[crimethink]

Ah! Now we've arrived at the core point.


When are you going to admit you are a pro-bankster shill?

You're doing market research here, aren't you? Judging our responses for a report to your superiors.




If finance were a public utility, then the government would own the only bank. There would be no competition. The bank would be fascist.


The banks are fascist (the for-profit banks and the government are de facto one entity). Under my system, much smaller banks would function similar to PG&E or ConEd, or, even better, always-cheaper public power institutions. More competition would exist, as well, since there would be no privately-owned "Federal" Reserve cartel.




If finance, then what about medical services? Should the government pay all healthcare costs? Should the government decides who gets surgery and who doesn't? Do you like Obama's fascist healthcare law?


You should love Obama's "healthcare," since it was written by and for insurance corporations. You know, "capitalist."

The American "healthcare consumer" already pays for universal healthcare; but we don't get it, since the premiums are siphoned off to pay for executives and shareholder dividends.




No. Banks provide a service for a profit.


The "service" banks provide is the same "service" bulls provide to cows.

You definitely have a love affair with banksters.




The problem isn't the model of service for profit (also known as the free market or capitalism).


Capitalism is the system where capital is amassed as efficiently as possible. It has nothing to do with free enterprise or even a free market.




The problem is the criminals who haven't been brought to justice yet.


The current Mystery Babylon banking system that you so love is the logical consequence, the unavoidable result of what you call "free market capitalism." Nothing "criminal" when you look at it from the capitalist's perspective. Although it is wholly immoral from any traditional faith perspective.




Shame on you for disparaging the integrity of honest people by painting them all with a broad brush.

OK, dude, put up or shut up. Name the "honorable bankers" that you claim exist.

I stand by what I said earlier. You are a pro-bankster shill pretending to be one of us. You're feigning an interest in "smaller banks" in order to discover opinions that are blocking larger banks from "growing their customer base." Probably also opinions at the root of why so many - increasingly - are so-called "unbanked" and "underbanked."

[Hitch]

OK, dude, put up or shut up. Name the "honorable bankers" that you claim exist.

Awesome post, Crimethink.

Name one honorable banker. Name one. Anyone? Silence?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[KenJackson]

When are you going to admit you are a pro-bankster shill?
Paranoia and arrogance.

Are the bankers out to get you? Are you that important that they would waste there time?



OK, dude, put up or shut up. Name the "honorable bankers" that you claim exist.
Clever. I can't name one living banker of any description. When you do your limited banking activity, do you pay attention to the name of the banker, or even the teller? In fact, I haven't stepped foot in a bank in several years (not counting the ATM alcove).

But I've read that J.P. Morgan was thoroughly honorable and respected. The bank that bears his name disgraces him, but that's not his fault.


You are a pro-bankster shill pretending to be one of us.
Them's fightin' words. A personal attack. Probably against forum policy.

Actually, it's a foolish thing to say, given what I've said in this thread.

Do you really wear that Nazi uniform?

[Shami-Amourae]

That's a real good idea. If you can work CNC, or especially 3D printing, you can make tangible goods that you can barter and sell if needed.

You will always be producing something, regardless. Think about possibly replacement gun parts with the CNC maybe? Are you thinking of another income during a collapse environment?

My goal is to buy a boat to charter out. The problem is I need to take a loan out, get in bed with the banks, to do this. I'll keep saving for this goal, but might take a couple of years to get the funds. My business might not be great during a collapse, but giving folks lifts to where they need to go, ie getting them out of dodge might be enough reward.

Yeah I wanted to mainly do replacement gun parts. I have all the meshing skills, I just need the time, money, and drive to venture into it. I'm one of the best mesh artists in my current field already.

I've spent more money on aftermarket gun parts than I have guns, so I'm sure there's a lot of money in it.

The problem with 3D printers is I don't think they can print very strong components. I've seen some online businesses that do CNC machining with gun parts on Ebay. The easiest thing to make would be stuff like shotgun followers, extended magazine releases, and so on.

I'm just so busy with my current business I haven't had the time or drive to do it.

[Shami-Amourae]

OK, dude, put up or shut up. Name the "honorable bankers" that you claim exist.

The people who run the Bank of North Dakota.

[crimethink]

Paranoia and arrogance.


It's not paranoia if it's true.




Are the bankers out to get you?


No, banksters love me, and all of us. :rolleyes:




Clever. I can't name one living banker of any description. When you do your limited banking activity, do you pay attention to the name of the banker, or even the teller? In fact, I haven't stepped foot in a bank in several years (not counting the ATM alcove).


So, you admit you were absolutely full of shit when you claimed I libeled the "honest people" [sic] in banking. If you don't know any banksters by name, you can't make such an assertion.

You don't even know the name of the CEO of even a single bank? How about any banker? How about Janet Yellen? Ben Bernanke?




But I've read that J.P. Morgan was thoroughly honorable and respected. The bank that bears his name disgraces him, but that's not his fault.


ROTFLMAO!

John Pierpont Morgan was a crook par excellence. J.P. Morgan the man was a lead figure in the drive for the creation of the "Federal" Reserve. The fact you cite him as a beacon of "virtue" proves you are a shill.




Them's fightin' words. A personal attack. Probably against forum policy.


LOL - why don't you do something about it? :)

Our words - yours and mine - reveal all anyone needs to know about either of us.




Actually, it's a foolish thing to say, given what I've said in this thread.


Banksters have "integrity" and are "honest." Check. Banksters provide "valuable services." Check. J.P. Morgan was "honorable." Check. What else do we need to have before considering you a bankster shill?




Do you really wear that Nazi uniform?

I invoke Godwin's Law. You lose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[crimethink]

The people who run the Bank of North Dakota.

Name them. Individuals.

[crimethink]

The people who run the Bank of North Dakota.

You were saying:

http://mystudentloanonline.nd.gov/loan_types/index.html

Preying on college kids is definitely not the paradigm of "honesty."


Doesn't look any different than the typical mortgage lender, either:

http://banknd.nd.gov/lending_services/rates/BND_loan_rates.html

The Bank of North Dakota differs only in ownership by a state government, not in usury, fractional reserve, or pretty much anything else from the typical commercial bank.


Interview with BND CEO Eric Hardmeyer by the "Federal" Reserve Bank of Minneapolis:

https://www.minneapolisfed.org/publications/fedgazette/interview-with-eric-hardmeyer

fedgazette: Other states that are considering such a bank must ask you about the reaction of private lenders to having a state-owned player in the field. How does the Bank of North Dakota ensure that it doesn’t squeeze out profit opportunities for private lenders?

Hardmeyer: We’re very sensitive to that issue. If you go back to the operating policies that were established when the bank was founded, it was always the imperative that the Bank of North Dakota do nothing harmful to the private sector banks and that it is here to partner rather than to compete with them. We get that; we understand that. And we are constantly looking to ensure that we have a balance between meeting our mission and not infringing upon the opportunities of the private sector. It’s one of those things that are just ingrained in how we do business.

We have a very solid relationship with both of the banking associations in North Dakota—the North Dakota Bankers Association and the Independent Community Banks of North Dakota. We serve on their boards in different capacities, and I think you would find from their executives that the relationship between the Bank of North Dakota and the community banks and system banks here is solid. We know our role and play it to the best of our abilities.

One thing that people need to understand about the bank is that in addition to the mission-critical things that we do, we’re also a banker’s bank. So, to access our programs, you would have to work through a local originating bank. There is very little opportunity [for a consumer] to come directly to the Bank of North Dakota for any loan activity. The area where we did compete is student loans. However, beginning July 1, 2010, the bank-delivered student loan program known as the FFELP [Federal Family Education Loan Program] will be eliminated and run by the federal government. And even in that area, we had formed alliances with banks across the state to work with them.

North Dakota banks understand that we really are not set up to compete with them and that our programs are delivered through them. We also provide great value to banks in terms of providing liquidity when they have needs; or, if they have excess liquidity, we are a market for fed funds. We do a lot of typical things that you would get from a correspondent bank.

[Sparky]

Do you think you're hurting me?

There have actually been a couple helpful suggestions in this thred. And some posts have confessed the use of banks, even TBTF banks, while roundly criticizing the use of banks. Amusing.

If I may wax philosophical for a moment, the Lord has given us a probabilistic universe. There are risks and potential rewards in everything. Keeping money in a bank has risks. Not having a bank account has risks. Today's modern conveniences leave digital footprints that could be used against us, but life before those modern conveniences was more dangerous and much less convenient. Not having a gun could be dangerous, but holding a gun in your hand makes you a target and gives your assailant a defense that will dupe many juries.

People who wear Nazi uniforms may demand that I not use a bank. I don't care. I'm just trying to balance risks and rewards to me. It's up to each one of us to weigh the risks and rewards.

The people in this forum give me a valuable perspective that you rarely encounter in the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland.

You asked a very reasonable question. I think Shami gave the best answer.

[KenJackson]

It's not paranoia if it's true.
Ouh oh. I thought you were just an angry man.


So, you admit you were absolutely full of s*** ...
Another personal attack.


I invoke Godwin's Law. You lose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

YOU self-identified with the Nazis by selecting an avatar with a Nazi uniform. If the question it prompted offends you, pick a better picture.

[crimethink]

Another personal attack.


No, a statement of fact. You were absolutely full of shit when you claimed that there exist somewhere banksters who are "honest people." If you cannot name even one of them, you cannot make such a declaration.




YOU self-identified with the Nazis by selecting an avatar with a Nazi uniform. If the question it prompted offends you, pick a better picture.

Look, bankster shill, "Nazis" were not part of this discussion until you injected it based on a loaded misperception on your part about my avatar. As you brought it up, without relevance, you lost the discussion per Godwin's Law. No, it doesn't offend me for you to be a hypocritical liar who screams "personal attack" while asking me if I wear Nazi uniforms. I consider it great flattery to be compared to that soldier...infinitely more honorable than all banksters everywhere put together. The uniform means nothing...the man inside it meant everything to his people and to any decent warrior across history.

[mick silver]

buy gold silver land when you have the funds , stop trusting others with your life
and your love one's lifes

[PatColo]

It’s Official: The Worldwide Bail-ins Are Coming (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/12/mark-nestmann/worldwide-bail-ins-are-coming/) By Mark Nestmann (http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/mark-nestmann/?ptype=article)

Nestman.com (http://www.nestmann.com/)
December 24, 2014




In case you missed the announcement, Cyprus-style bail-ins are coming to a bank near you.


On November 16, leaders of the G20 Group of Nations – the 20 largest economies – made an important decision. The world’s megabanks now have official permission to pledge depositor accounts as collateral to make leveraged derivative bets. And if they lose a bet, the counterparty to the contract has first dibs on your money.


The governments of these 20 countries are now supposed to put these arrangements into law. Most, including the US, have already done so.


You could be forgiven for not paying much attention to the G20 meeting, because it was mostly “more of the same” – the latest plan to have central banks inject trillions more dollars into the global economy.


But the G20 also endorsed a proposal with a mind-numbingly tedious title: Adequacy of Loss-Absorbing Capacity of Global Systemically Important Banks in Resolution. Not exactly a page-turner. Your average American is more likely to watch Chicago Fire than to delve into the minutiae of the global financial system.


But this proposal profoundly changes the rules for banking globally, and not in a good way. Deposits in banks that are “too big to fail” will be “promptly recapitalized” with their “unsecured debt.” This avoids those nasty taxpayer-funded bailouts that proved so politically unpopular during the 2008-2009 financial crisis.


And the largest chunk of unsecured debt is your bank deposits. Insolvent banks will recapitalize themselves by converting your deposits – checking accounts, but also money market accounts and CDs – into stock.


Thus, when you deposit money in a bank, you’re taking the same risk as someone buying a stock. Or, for that matter, betting on a horse named “Falling Star” at the local racetrack. Because, in effect, that’s what banks are doing with your money.


The G20 has also officially declared that derivatives – the toxic contracts Warren Buffett calls “financial weapons of mass destruction” – are secured debts. Since your bank deposits are now only unsecured debt that the bank has pledged to a secured creditor, guess who gets your money if the bet goes the wrong way for the bank? Answer: It’s not you.


Heads, the bank wins. Tails, you lose.


Fortunately, “insured deposits” won’t be subject to this treatment. In the US, 100% of deposits in insured banks are protected up to $250,000 per depositor, courtesy of federal deposit insurance. But it’s hardly reassuring that this fund has a reserve ratio under 1%. For every $100 on deposit, the FDIC has less than one dollar to back it with.


This is still a lot of money – $54 billion at the end of September. But it’s dwarfed by $6 trillion in insured deposits, not to mention derivatives contracts with a total value of nearly $300 trillion. Indeed, the failure of just a single major Wall Street bank could exhaust the fund.


Federal law authorizes borrowing from the US Treasury to make up the shortfall, but when a banking crisis hits, it’s not likely to occur in a vacuum, as I described in this essay (http://www.nestmann.com/are-you-making-this-financial-mistake). Lots of other people will be demanding a handout, many of them with stronger political connections than you or I could ever hope to muster.


How bad could it get? Well, under the scenario the G20 just blessed, uninsured bank depositors would be even worse off than account-holders in the government-owned banks in Cyprus that became insolvent in 2013. Their claims were considered superior to those of derivative counterparties. Some uninsured depositors got almost half of their money back (although at one government-owned bank, they got nothing).
A more apt example would be Lehman Brothers. When it declared bankruptcy in 2008, unsecured creditors got about 21 cents on the dollar.


You might be wondering why the G20 made this decision. The obvious incentive is to avoid politically unpopular bailouts of megabanks that are “too big to fail.”


But there’s a less obvious reason as well. The G20 hopes that you’ll invest in government bonds backed by the “full faith and credit” of its member governments. That will have the effect of keeping down interest rates on the alarmingly high debt carried by almost every G20 member.


How can you protect yourself?


The most important precaution is to minimize your exposure to the banking system. Keep bank deposits well below the deposit insurance maximums. Accumulate physical currency, precious metals, and other “real assets.”


Diversifying your investments internationally also makes sense, but because bail-ins have now gone global, it’s no longer as simple as just opening an account outside the US or whatever other country you live in. Use only strong, well-capitalized banks to hold the funds you keep in the banking system. Look for banks with as high a level of “Tier 1” liquidity as possible – 25% at the minimum. (By comparison, the minimum required in the US is only 6% to be classified as “Well-Capitalized.”) If you have at least $500,000 or so to spare, open an account with an offshore private bank that has no commercial lending or derivatives exposure.


I don’t know when the next global financial crisis will hit. But when it does, I do know who will pay for it. And it won’t be the bankers or the financial geniuses who designed the “financial weapons of mass destruction” that led to their downfall.


Get your assets out of the “too big to fail” banks – now. It’s only a matter of time before the SHTF.

[7th trump]

This country wouldnt have become a global power it has become if it wasnt for fractional reserve banking. This country defaulted three times before fractional reserve banking came into existence. And if America defaults now...it'll be the first time since fractional reserve banking was implimented.
Each and everyone of you are cuting off your noses to spite your faces.
Look deep inside and see your true flective colors........each and everyone of you've greatly benefited from fractional reserve banking.
Look at Ponce as a perfect example of fractional reserve banking and capitalism....he hates both, but cant survive to brag about his ass wipe stock pile without the fractional reserve banking system....otherwise he'd just be another unsuccessful colored asshole who hates white man for his white females. Ponce doesnt like America...but he sure likes the white females!

I dont like saying it but if it wasnt for jewish bankers and their idea of fractional reserve banking, America never would have gotton as far as she has. Lets face it......there isnt enough precious metal combined to make America the place she is today if it wasnt for paper money!
And guess what....theres nothing in the Bible thats says "money" has to be gold or silver.....sorry but theres nothing in there stating so!
Someone has been busy keeping this country number 1 for the benefit of many!
If America fails everyone fails and communism with it ugly tryanical head becomes the winner.....and we all will suffer!

[mick silver]

if you still don't have a bank I will be your bank for you , I can see it now MICK SILVER NO LOANS BANK . I will hold your money for a bunch of fees . trust you can count on MICK SILVER BANK . now just if the fools fall for it I can own all the silver an gold with their paper

[KenJackson]

Deposits in banks that are “too big to fail” will be “promptly recapitalized” with their “unsecured debt.”
You've posted some disturbing news PatColo.



Diversifying your investments internationally also makes sense, but because bail-ins have now gone global, it’s no longer as simple as just opening an account outside the US or whatever other country you live in. With the new FATCA law in effect, how could we open an account outside the US anyway? With that law, the US Government has made its citizens persona non grata the world over. (That's some of the change Obama promised.)


Use only strong, well-capitalized banks to hold the funds you keep in the banking system. Look for banks with as high a level of “Tier 1” liquidity as possible – 25% at the minimum. (By comparison, the minimum required in the US is only 6% to be classified as “Well-Capitalized.”)
Now you're talking! This is what this very thread had asked about. You're right on target!
But can you walk me through how to find that information for smaller banks???



Get your assets out of the “too big to fail” banks – now. It’s only a matter of time before the SHTF.
Exactly! Exactly! You're singing my song, but you're not giving the information I asked for to implement the solution.


Each and everyone of you are cuting off your noses to spite your faces.
...
Someone has been busy keeping this country number 1 for the benefit of many!
If America fails everyone fails and communism with it ugly tryanical head becomes the winner.....and we all will suffer!
Amen!
But I'm not throwing out the whole system like that fascist demanded earlier--I'm just looking for shelter so I don't get hit by falling debris from my TBTF bank fails.

You see I don't really believe ANY company should be considered too big to fail. Banks that act as irresponsible as America's top five or so have acted deserve to go bankrupt. But the way that SHOULD happen, is its customers should be able to learn of their shady dealings and run for cover long before there's an actual problem. So when it actually does crash, it's a much smaller bank. The government has created an evil illusion that there's no need to worry because big nanny government will always be there to cover any loss. That's not a free market.

[expat4ever]

I dont like saying it but if it wasnt for jewish bankers and their idea of fractional reserve banking, America never would have gotton as far as she has. Lets face it......there isnt enough precious metal combined to make America the place she is today if it wasnt for paper money!

You cant possibly believe that? What has it gotten us other than 18 trillion in debt, enslaved an entire nation, the irs, the war machine and I believe we have just about fulfilled all the the planks of the communist manifesto. Show me the good it has done.
100 years ago we could buy a home in 5 years. Today its 30. 30 years ago I could work my way through college and come out with little to no debt. Today college costs as much as a house.

Here's a site with prices from 1910. Lets compare and see if we are better off with gold and silver or with dollars. http://www.gti.net/mocolib1/prices/1910.html

In 1910 gold was 20.00 and silver was 1 dollar. I will use round numbers for todays prices and call it 1200 and 16.00 respectively.

Lets start with house prices. 2250 -6000 is the prices they have. Lets use 4000 as an average.

In gold thats 200 oz
Silver is 4000 oz.

Todays value Gold= 240,000 Silver=64,000 Average price of a home in same county 241,000. Depends on what site you use but this is one of them and seems reasonable.

An Auto saleman back then made 25.00 a week. It would have taken 160 weeks pay to pay for that home.

Today and Auto salesman makes 1000 a week and it takes him 240 weeks to pay for that home.

I think it should also be noted that in 1910 you kept every dollar you earned. There was no income tax on your pay. Today you would pay about 15-20% in income taxes on that 1000 a week so add that to the total weeks needed and your up to about 280 weeks to pay for that same home.
In 1910 the Average mortgage was for 3-5 years. today its 30 years.. I dont call that progress.

Back then the GSR was 20-1 today its 74.

My conclusion is that silver has lost some value for the time being but overall you are better off with gold and silver in the long run. Right now I think silver is way undervalued and should be up around 60. Gov manipulation is the cause and lets face it the only reason they are able to do this is from oney they have stolen from us via taxation.

Its also important to note that the price of gold also floated so its value could reflect the times. If the average pay in 1910 was 1 gold coin, today its still about 1 gold coin. The big difference is that if you get paid in federal reserve notes you make 62000 a year. If you get paid in gold coin you make 2500 a year and no tax return needs to be filed unless you sell that gold for a percieved profit and trade it for FRN's.
The biggest thing we got from the bankers is the IRS and the tax code. It made slaves of all of us.

[expat4ever]

Exactly! Exactly! You're singing my song, but you're not giving the information I asked for to implement the solution.

The solution is gold kept in your own bank buried in your own back yard.
Per my previous post, dollars will lose value every year. Gold has over a 100 year history of retaining that value.

[KenJackson]

You cant possibly believe that? What has it gotten us other than 18 trillion in debt, enslaved an entire nation, the irs, the war machine and I believe we have just about fulfilled all the the planks of the communist manifesto.

Are you familiar with the word conflate (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conflate)?

You have conflated fractional reserve banking with fiat currency. We had gold-backed currency in this country for many years, but we also had fractional reserve banking. They're independent concepts. The IRS and the war machine are related topics, but they are not direct results of FRB either.

[7th trump]

Are you familiar with the word conflate (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conflate)?

You have conflated fractional reserve banking with fiat currency. We had gold-backed currency in this country for many years, but we also had fractional reserve banking. They're independent concepts. The IRS and the war machine are related topics, but they are not direct results of FRB either.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught all his mistakes....so many wrongs to address at work.
It was congress who implimented the IRS...not the banks.
The IRS precurser was collecting taxes way before the reserve banks came into existence.....try like 1862.
The banks do not set house prices...or any prices...they are just lending institutions.

Its hard to even know where to start with addressing his post....about 99.5% of his post is wrong and directed wrong.
He has a lot of learning to do.
And he didnt get the fact that I was comparing the ease of fractional banking to digging out the gold and silver.
And he doesnt take into effect that not only is gold needed for private affairs but lets not forget about the industrial affairs of raw materials to make things from before a company could hire people to make a product and pay them in gold and silver.....with that alone I doubt there'd be any available gold for use as money.
See grasshopper (expat4ever), theres just not enough gold and silver above ground to make America what it is today....you assume way to much without every actually taking in any real critical thinking of the subject.

If we were on the gold standard where everything had to be bought with precious metal and no credit we'd have never had an industrial revolution that made every productive American have a better life.
We'd be a shit hole of a country looking like Germany after WWII with debt up to your asshole and probably defaulting every 10 or 15 years.
Theres nothing wrong with fractional banking, whether the US Treasury or the reserve banks impliments it......the problem is where banks and wall street have coffee together and influence those to take down legislation like Dodd/Franks that keeps them seperate.

[KenJackson]

The solution is gold kept in your own bank buried in your own back yard.
Per my previous post, dollars will lose value every year. Gold has over a 100 year history of retaining that value.

I wish I could explain how extremely and frustratingly inane this response is.

Yes, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know--gold has maintained value since before the pharaohs of Egypt, whereas malfeasance at the FED will crash the fiat dollar.

But since that's NOT THE QUESTION I asked and DOES NOT SOLVE the problem I presented, interjecting it here comes across as petulant, like you're an inexperienced salesman with something to sell and you blurt it out at every opportunity whether it makes sense at the moment or not.

[PatColo]

Now you're talking! This is what this very thread had asked about. You're right on target!
But can you walk me through how to find that information for smaller banks???

Exactly! Exactly! You're singing my song, but you're not giving the information I asked for to implement the solution.

Simple: you 'hurry up & wait' for the next installment of his article. Duh.

Seriously, as an interim-to-possible-permanent solution, get into a regional Credit Union. I've used them exclusively my entire adult life. Used to be you needed to be a member of some "labor union" which the CU's were set up exclusively to serve, but that's long since been relaxed. Now you just need... well I'm not up on the very latest, but I know a blood/marriage relation to any CU member, opens the door to you. Pick your nearest CU, and check if any relatives are already members. Short of that, if you have a not-nearby CU-member relative, but have one farther away; join their (out of state?) CU. How often do we need to go into the banks, anyways? You can do it all by ATM, phone and internet. I've been in Asia for a few years, and still using my Bay Area CU, no sweat. And all the CU's cooperate with the ATM fees, IE use another CU's ATM, NO FEES... (unlike if you use a for-profit TBTF bank's ATM).

But first check your nearest/strongest CU, and check what their current membership qualifications are at their website.

[PatColo]

a few Startpage results:





What Is a Credit Union vs. a Bank - Differences, Pros & Cons (http://www.moneycrashers.com/why-credit-unions-are-better-than-banks/)
www.moneycrashers.com/ (http://www.moneycrashers.com/)why-credit-unions-are-better-than-banks/ - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=4d564550577a7853486c306449523033424131555 6456b79626a6f42566e744f51554146516d68446145415a486 9494b48316f4f5a6745714255525a51776f324c533055527a5 15355457043585835575956645a446e596446773430416a6f4 2536c6c65445277594352557662684a6f6133427a596751536 14656445144676244304d4a64317472483139574731556b4b5 434464443565753513148584870485a566841486a684a466b6 34b5052636c47425a4144454e794a53305155697059536b565 7556a4a5250567863476a77474346746349414130484674625 645637962697864536a4a4e56416351636e4147526877414f7 963594442305849686f6846556846434649384c53735444435 6575351635264534a6365525252447a554c456b64584f426f7 4413056455245416d4c585143527a4a4e5156414f527a31566 26852514844344543425a49433149784345704443427874665 7785151584a6348425956427a5a524e31384847474a6447414 24a4c304233564567455555646e4b58385355696c4b47524d4 65279594a5457316a4252383749674d304e794632496b77535 76d5678657831475554594551684d55556a63484f566745544 75a574851464b666b423258783153444246676654315645696 34e526b4d3d&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n63774q6p38304r5335725n58 6o3q&edata=e4a84d460f80b5374bdf3ec969cd39c5&ek=55446o7966564276657n4r3654585245624373336153465 553466p67496o59354n43496n4q315530&ekdata=06260acd88a341bd2cd7865c6ef885ae) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=why+credit+union*+better+than+banks&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTQORPQQ&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/search&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&mtpl=ff&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.moneycrashers.com%2Fwhy-credit-unions-are-better-than-banks%2F)
Learn more about how a credit union compares with a commercial bank in ... Only online banks offer rates that are competitive or, in some cases, better than the rates ... Credit unions offer fewer financial products than larger national banks .
Here's why you're better off using a credit union rather than a big bank (http://www.businessinsider.com/should-you-use-credit-unions-or-big-banks-2014-1)
www.businessinsider.com/ (http://www.businessinsider.com/) should-you-use-credit-unions-or-big-banks-2014-1 - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=4d564550577a7853486c306449523033424131555 6456b79626a6f42566e744f51554146516d68446145415a486 9494b48316f4f5a6745714255525a51776f324c533055527a5 15355457043585835575956645a446e596446773430416a6f4 2536c6c65445277594352557662684a6f6133427a596751536 14656445144676244304d4a64317472483139574731556b4b5 434464443565753513148584870485a566841486a684a466b6 34b5052636c47425a4144454e794a53305155697059536b565 7556a4a5250567863476a77474346746349414130484674625 645637962697864536a4a4e56416351636e4147526877414f7 96359444230594f416374416b3545476b67364f7a4145527a5 1585230314f466d6479633146644344774c566b6f564f466b7 848303461436c4d784c444155447a4e585455314e514868626 368525146446443475649554a676470586873475851786c626 97745517a4a5947525641426d78524d566f4c4844594a54777 35a4c684a3944686b50575564736347465146484e6251426f5 24653644562306f50543359624341343347535538493339755 75738754857737552574d4b5941635164334e4863415255544 7634f475142444c454a3157684a525778466e6647745446434 e6346425957563241455951315148413d3d&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n63774q6p38304r5335725n58 6o3q&edata=4c495e7d643ab0eca75ee6c6458fc2b2&ek=55446o7966564276657n4r3654585245624373336153465 553466p67496o59354n43496n4q315530&ekdata=467234fd67620fb08308c405f8af4c9f) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=why+credit+union*+better+than+banks&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTQORPQQ&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/search&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&mtpl=ff&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fshould-you-use-credit-unions-or-big-banks-2014-1)
30 Jan 2014 ... Here are the pros and cons of both banks and credit unions.

9 Reasons Credit Unions Are Better Than Big Banks | Money Talks ... (http://www.moneytalksnews.com/9-reasons-why-a-credit-union-is-better-than-a-big-bank/)
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12 Feb 2014 ... While out and about, you may have passed by the local credit union without looking twice because you don't have a need for their services.

7 Ways Credit Unions Are Better Than Banks - US News (http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/2011/11/14/7-ways-credit-unions-are-better-than-banks)
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14 Nov 2011 ... Here are seven ways credit unions are better than banks: ... Remember that the credit union is a nonprofit organization and isn't going to raise ...

How is a Credit Union Different than a Bank? - MyCreditUnion.gov (http://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/Pages/How-is-a-Credit-Union-Different-than-a-Bank.aspx)
www.my (http://www.my)creditunion.gov/ about-credit-unions/ Pages/ How-is-a-Credit-Union-Different-than-a-Bank.aspx - View by Ixquick Proxy (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/proxy?ep=4d564550577a7853486c306449523033424131555 6456b79626a6f42566e744f51554146516d68446145415a486 9494b48316f4f5a6745714255525a51776f324c533055527a5 15355457043585835575956645a446e596446773430416a6f4 2536c6c65445277594352557662684a6f6133427a596751536 14656445144676244304d4a64317472483139574731556b4b5 434464443565753513148584870485a566841486a684a466b6 34b5052636c47425a4144454e794a53305155697059536b565 7556a4a5250567863476a77474346746349414130484674625 645637962697864536a4a4e56416351636e4147526877414f7 96359444230584e42633243553965485651364954594f44434 65755676352645452576230784755444d64486c63544f566b7 8416b4a5942314a78656838775179466356776352645231626 4785262446e304f566e41494b42417447415a69423067374a6 e516b53794266515642475853455a644646544533304f566e4 5624978397144566848455163684c446755513373415168424 8424746564d4145415254454b4867704366455a325845304f5 5425a674b6d3557526e356246515252517a704850513855435 34e534e6d63724e5473514e5274354533526d426a354645514 963463259465143554a5a67674648444a63516c4a4d66454a3 943686b485768566d653238465233594e45555957417a51415 96c673d&epile=4q6n41784r4445794q6n63774q6p38304r5335725n58 6o3q&edata=7d0b11c975fe1ce423ec87d93ba38aeb&ek=55446o7966564276657n4r3654585245624373336153465 553466p67496o59354n43496n4q315530&ekdata=827c36bfc4dcb88821e01c92838a1750) - Highlight (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/highlight.pl?l=english&c=hf&cat=web&q=why+credit+union*+better+than+banks&rl=NONE&rid=LALOLTQORPQQ&hlq=https://startpage.com/do/search&mtcat=web&mtlanguage=english&mtpl=ff&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.mycreditunion.gov%2Fabout-credit-unions%2FPages%2FHow-is-a-Credit-Union-Different-than-a-Bank.aspx)
Fees and loan rates at credit unions are generally lower, while interest rates returned are generally higher, than banks and other for-profit institutions. Credit ...

Credit Unions vs Banks - The Simple Dollar (http://www.thesimpledollar.com/credit-union-vs-banks/)
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10 Sep 2014 ... From a street view, a credit union looks just like a bank: rows of ... the nation's four largest banks are larger than the entire credit union industry as a whole. .... with better interest on savings and fewer fees, but with fewer online ...

Bank vs. Credit Union - Which is Better? - Banking/Loans - About.com (http://banking.about.com/od/creditunions/a/bank-vs-creditunion.htm)
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Credit unions rates are often a bit better, but there are plenty of exceptions. On the other hand, banks often offer more products and services than a small credit ...

[mick silver]

http://media.cagle.com/73/2012/05/22/112220_600.jpg

[mick silver]

http://makeameme.org/media/created/We-all-have-zqhfqb.jpg

[mick silver]

http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/obama-vs-bush-deficit.jpg

[mick silver]

ken you posted this and yet your looking for banks to hold your funds ... Book: "Conquering The Coming Collapse" -- what do you think?

[KenJackson]

ken you posted this and yet your looking for banks to hold your funds ... Book: "Conquering The Coming Collapse" -- what do you think?

Do you mean Conquer the Crash: You Can Survive... (http://www.amazon.com/dp/047056797X/)? That was written 5 years ago and there are a plethora of others I want to read like it, so it's unlikely I'll ever get to that one.

I got The Great Deformation (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1586489127/) for Christmas and just started plowing through it. If I ever finish its 700 pages of small print, I'll read the other book I got for Christmas, Full Force and Effect (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0399173358/).

I tire of explaining that, yes banks are bad and doomed, but civilized, practical, modern people still need a bank account to receive paychecks and pay bills. Simple, every-day banking services are just too convenient to live without.

You seem eager and excited for the collapse. I pray it doesn't come in my lifetime even while I prepare to minimize its impact on me when it does. Thus this thread.

[expat4ever]

I tire of explaining that, yes banks are bad and doomed, but civilized, practical, modern people still need a bank account to receive paychecks and pay bills. Simple, every-day banking services are just too convenient to live without.

Ok so you get that banks are bad and doomed but you still want a bank account. Isnt that like saying Fukashima is fucked but I still gotta eat so I'll just grow a garden 5 miles away instead of 1 mile away?

I havent had a bank account in about 7 or 8 years now. I pay my bills, bought a house, cars xmas presents ect. All without a bank. Imagine that...

If your just talking about living paycheck to paycheck then does it really matter where you bank? You money goes in, then you pay it out and since theres nothing left anyway it really doesnt matter if they fail. Your out a weeks pay or 2 and really if the big banks go down this country is fucked anyway. Why do you think congress gave them 700 billion of our tax dollars to bail them out? They all know when this sytem collapses its game over for all of them as well since they caused this mess.

If you have extra frn's in savings then Whatever the inflation rate is is what your losing every year on your savings. But you already know all this so I refer to the last paragraph. Is anyplace going to be safe thats in the system? Where does your company get money from? Chances are someone pays your company from the banks that are TBTF. When that money gets locked up it doesnt matter where your paycheck goes because there wont be any paychecks. In fact when the system crashes it will happen fast. Fast as in a matter of 1-3 days.

[crimethink]

You seem eager and excited for the collapse. I pray it doesn't come in my lifetime even while I prepare to minimize its impact on me when it does. Thus this thread.

Which means you're one of the hundreds of millions who wants the gravy train to continue, so you don't have to face the loss of the ill-gotten gains from the System.

The current system is evil - more evil than anything else on Earth ever - which is why the Bible named it Mystery Babylon. Its destruction will be incredibly painful, but totally necessary.

Justice is coming. And you rue the day.

[mick silver]

I am not eager for a collapse but I know it will come so today I will add to what my family may need and ken I know if it does happen I will lose family members like most here so that day I do not care to see . I just know if I have fund I will buy the things I need like land tractors ex gas , farms are a good write off

[KenJackson]

If anyone is interested, I found a credit union squirreled away in a shopping center near my house and opened an account.

It's small, with few offices, but it allows customers to withdraw cash via the Allpoint Network (http://allpointnetwork.com/) of ATMs, which is vast. Eventually I'll switch direct-deposit to it and close my TBTF bank account, hopefully before any bail-in materializes.

Thanks to those offered constructive input. Never mind, to those who just wanted to argue.

[mick silver]

if there not two side just how would you of got to were you were going . never put all your eggs in one basket I am sure you have heard that before

[KenJackson]

if there not two side just how would you of got to were you were going . never put all your eggs in one basket I am sure you have heard that before

Mick, if you are not a native English speaker, I empathize with your discomfort with the English language. But if you are, shame on you.

As for your point, you seem to assume I have only one bank account, and maybe that that's where all my savings are. In fact, I try to share as few private details as possible. I've spent a lot of effort spreading things out to avoid the eggs in one basket scenario. But in addition to spreading out, it also seems wise to cut all ties to the TBTF banks, which was the point of this thread.

[mick silver]

read what you just posted ............. cut all ties to the TBTF banks .......... a bank a bank .. put it like this if the big one go down so will the small ones that not to hard to under stand . paper rich, if you need two are three bank look for ways to buy land , hide it . make it work for you

[mick silver]

I have three college guys working for me you need a job[QUOTE=KenJackson;752574]Mick, if you are not a native English speaker, I empathize with your discomfort with the English language. But if you are, shame on you

[Cebu_4_2]

Mick has voice to auto text and chews tobacco. We've been through this a hundred times.

[BrewTech]

Mick has voice to auto text and chews tobacco. We've been through this a hundred times.

Is that true? I mean the having gone through it a hundred times part?

I must have missed those threads.

[BrewTech]

Mick, if you are not a native English speaker, I empathize with your discomfort with the English language. But if you are, shame on you.

English is not your first language then?

[KenJackson]

English is not your first language then?

Empathy doesn't require an identical situation.

[BrewTech]

Empathy doesn't require an identical situation.True, but your use of the term "empathize" rather than "sympathize" prompted me to ask the question, which you didn't answer, at least not directly.

[Cebu_4_2]

Search "mick chewing tobacco"

[Neuro]

Search "mick chewing tobacco"
I did, it only referred to this thread...

I thought Mick had dyslexia, which really isn't something to be ashamed of. It is what it is, and Mick has a good head on his shoulders as far as I can tell anyway, though spelling is a bit off...

[Cebu_4_2]

I thought Mick had dyslexia

A touch of tourettes and tobacco does it every time.

[gunDriller]

I did, it only referred to this thread...

I thought Mick had dyslexia, which really isn't something to be ashamed of. It is what it is, and Mick has a good head on his shoulders as far as I can tell anyway, though spelling is a bit off...

One of the most competent industrial artists I know has Dyslexia.

I like getting an email from him. He tends to spell things phonetically.

I'd like to see a website designed by & for dyslexic people. Instead of them putting up with us, let us non-dyslexic people stop dictating spelling & go with the flow.

[mick silver]

nope I don't have that , I got what they call been dead 3 times in one day , took years for me to get back to were I am now so crack on me all you guys want but remember you may be were I done went and some day it maybe you , but fuck I don't know what I am talking about , make more paper then most of you guy will ever see . but that came at a cost . ride me all you want , again I have huge shoulder done pack my load

[Cebu_4_2]

I liked the tobacco story better.

[Neuro]

I liked the tobacco story better.
Yeah, but you kind of made it up... ;D

[Neuro]

nope I don't have that , I got what they call been dead 3 times in one day , took years for me to get back to were I am now so crack on me all you guys want but remember you may be were I done went and some day it maybe you , but fuck I don't know what I am talking about , make more paper then most of you guy will ever see . but that came at a cost . ride me all you want , again I have huge shoulder done pack my load
You were dead three times in a day? That must have been a shitty day... What happened?

[Cebu_4_2]

Chewing tobacco in a lightning storm is what I read a while back.