PDA

View Full Version : What Rule Of Law? WAKE UP!



Cebu_4_2
31st December 2014, 05:50 AM
The Market Ticker - What Rule Of Law? WAKE UP!

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229695

Ah, the sweet irony....

The attorneys general of Nebraska and Oklahoma have asked the Supreme Court to declare unconstitutional Colorado’s law legalizing marijuana. The lawsuit states that, “The Constitution and the federal anti-drug laws do not permit the development of a patchwork of state and local pro-drug policies and licensed-distribution schemes throughout the country which conflict with federal laws.”

Many conservatives have criticized Nebraska and Oklahoma for being “fair-weather federalists” because their claims hinge, in part, on Gonzales v. Raich, a 2005 Supreme Court decision, upholding the broad reach of Congress’s power to regulate commerce.

Conservatives’ ire instead should be directed at the Obama administration’s decision to suspend enforcement of the federal law prohibiting marijuana—a decision so warping the rule of law that the complaining states’ reliance on Raich is justified and necessary.

Utter crap.

Colorado, for its part, has said it will defend it's statute. Good.

This torture of the Constitution goes back to Wickard .v. Filburn, a depression-era decision that was a clear violation of the Constitution itself. Let me remind everyone of the following:

"Where the meaning of the Constitution is clear and unambiguous, there can be no resort to construction to attribute to the founders a purpose of intent not manifest in its letter." -- Norris .v. Baltimore

and

“An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.” -- Norton .v. Shelby County

So the writer here purports to argue that in 1970 the passage of the Controlled Substances Act, which itself propounded a lie (classifying Marijuana as a "Schedule I" drug; a drug of both high abuse potential [debateable] and of no medical purpose [utterly false -- and known false at the time]) as binding on the States. The foundation of the CSA was the Congressional power to regulate commerce between the states. It claims that even "locally grown and/or manufactured drugs have a substantial impact on Interstate Commerce" as justification.

This is the same argument raised in Wickard; that a man growing a crop on his own land for his own personal consumption has a "substantial impact" on Interstate Commerce because he will not then need to buy other products.

Note that this argument has as its foundation the destruction of all boundary on Congressional action since quite literally your choice to drink from a clean spring on your own property will dilute your need to buy canned or bottled beverages that might be shipped in interstate commerce!

In other words you can be barred from consuming said spring water under criminal penalty because by drinking that water you would not buy something else.

Neighboring states such as Nebraska and Oklahoma have seen a significant influx of high-potency marijuana purchased in and directed toward Colorado markets, increasing those states’ law-enforcement costs.

Those neighboring states are within their rights to enforce their laws. The people are within their rights to decide that the laws of those states suck, and to move. That's the point of 50 states with strong legal codes, some of which may conflict. Those states and the Federal Government are within their right to prohibit interstate movement of these drugs.

But the fact that some people choose to break the law in Nebraska and Oklahoma has nothing to do with the law in Colorado. It's legal for a state to decide to allow alcohol sales on Sunday, for example, while another state may bar the same. The state that barred the sale and consumption on Sunday cannot force the other, neighboring state to also do so.

If the CSA is a valid federal statute, the U.S. Constitution’s supremacy clause (Article VI, paragraph 2) instructs that conflicting state laws cannot be allowed to stand. This is where Raich comes in.

Nope. The CSA is a valid federal state as it applies to interstate commerce. Congress clearly has the power to regulate that; so says The Constitution.

But a drug (or other item) manufactured, sold and consumed inside the boundaries of a State does not give rise to the Congressional power to regulate interstate commerce. That any number of people, whether numbered one or more, choose to violate a federal law regulating interstate commerce does not force a State to implement a law to assist the Federal Government (or a neighboring State) in enforcement of the power that ends, under the Constitution, at the State's political boundary.

This tension is intentional in the Constitution and separation of powers not only between departments but also between the States and Federal Government.

It is specifically intended to foster a "50 laboratories of political thought" process and frustrate idiotic statutes that are Constitutionally infirm.

There is no federalism defense to Colorado’s law, unless one believes that Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce doesn’t include the power to regulate the buying and selling of marijuana, a commercial market that involves interstate transportation, lures sellers and consumers from other states, and now generates more than $7 million in tax revenue for Colorado every month.

Of course Congress has no power to do what it claimed! That's the entire point of Federalism; Congressional power ends at the State Boundary, provided that commerce remains inside that political boundary.

That some people choose to violate the law does not give rise to the authority to reach inside that boundary. It does give power to regulate via reasonable means at the boundary. Further, that people choose to come to Colorado, either temporarily or permanently, to enjoy what the State allows is also part of the intended system of government the founders established!

How else do you explain blue laws varying not only from state to state but county-to-county! People choose to cross those political boundaries all the time for the explicit purpose of imbibing an intoxicant.

Witness Florida, which has an agricultural checkpoint in both directions. All commercial traffic must go through it and it is manned and operating even during hours where the usual weigh stations are not. This is expressly legal even if a pain in the ass. Likewise, if the states bordering Colorado wish to implement something similar on their roads they can.

Congress correctly perceived that when it sought to outlaw alcohol production and consumption it had to pass an Amendment to the Constitution and not a "law", because it sought not to regulate interstate commerce but all commerce throughout all 50 states, even that contained within a single instance of said state. It thus required the explicit consent of the State Legislatures.

The same applies here. The CSA by the Constitution is only applicable by a black-letter reading of said Constitution to that which moves in interstate commerce.

The States are free to prohibit or permit the production, sale and consumption of drugs as they wish within their States.

Congress may regulate the passage of said substances between the states, but not wholly-contained inside them.

If you honor actual judicial precedent then Wickard .v. Filburn is void, as it is preceded by Norton .v. Shelby County, and all of the above tie back to the fundamental Constitutional precept that a law (or ruling!) repugnant to the Constitution is void and of no effect.

That thousands of people have been incarcerated and their property confiscated under a void law doesn't justify the void law.

It simply makes everyone involved in doing so kidnappers and, in fact, felons -- a point that we, as citizens should take to heart and both put a stop to on a forward basis and seek restitution for those harmed by same.

mick silver
31st December 2014, 09:21 AM
two sets of laws always have been and always will be . but I see the point he made

Hatha Sunahara
31st December 2014, 09:38 AM
"The Rule of Law" is one of those phrases that has one meaning for the elite and a completely different meaning for the masses. To the elite it means 'We control the government, which protects us and allows us to enslave the masses" To the masses it means "The government exists to 'protect you', so you better obey the laws, which may at time seem to be unfair." For the elite it is an instrument of enslavement. For the msses, it is a justification to behave like slaves.


Hatha

crimethink
31st December 2014, 10:20 AM
If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law.

-- Edward Abbey

BrewTech
31st December 2014, 06:23 PM
If you refuse to pay unjust taxes, your property will be confiscated. If you attempt to defend your property, you will be arrested. If you resist arrest, you will be clubbed. If you defend yourself against clubbing, you will be shot dead. These procedures are known as the Rule of Law.

-- Edward Abbey

This quote bears repeating often. I use it a lot myself to counter the "law is the law" idiocy.

crimethink
31st December 2014, 09:30 PM
This quote bears repeating often. I use it a lot myself to counter the "law is the law" idiocy.

The Law is made for people, not people for the Law. Even God's Law. When "the law" is wrong, it may be - nay, should be - ignored.

palani
1st January 2015, 03:52 AM
The Boy Scouts enact law for their members and not the Girl Scouts or Brownies. Now are the Boy Scouts going to complain if a Girl Scout picks up a Boy Scout Handbook and starts following their bylaws? Why should they?

Most likely everyone's main problem is believing that the Federal government can establish laws that they have to follow. Federal laws are for federal employees and officers. They are the ones who need to follow their laws and really, folks, you don't even have grounds to complain if your choice is to open their handbook and follow their laws. Then when you get hauled into their courts you fail to notice the court that you are not a federal employee or officer. Unless you are one of these you have no oath or contract that establishes that these laws apply to you.

[DISCLAIMER - I wouldn't try to hang my coat on this hook if I had a U.S. passport or was signed up for any federal benefits]

Hatha Sunahara
1st January 2015, 08:54 AM
The Boy Scouts enact law for their members and not the Girl Scouts or Brownies. Now are the Boy Scouts going to complain if a Girl Scout picks up a Boy Scout Handbook and starts following their bylaws? Why should they?

Most likely everyone's main problem is believing that the Federal government can establish laws that they have to follow. Federal laws are for federal employees and officers. They are the ones who need to follow their laws and really, folks, you don't even have grounds to complain if your choice is to open their handbook and follow their laws. Then when you get hauled into their courts you fail to notice the court that you are not a federal employee or officer. Unless you are one of these you have no oath or contract that establishes that these laws apply to you.

[DISCLAIMER - I wouldn't try to hang my coat on this hook if I had a U.S. passport or was signed up for any federal benefits]

Try smoking a joint at DEA headquarters. If the 'laws' are just for government employees why are so many non-government employees in jail?

Hatha

palani
1st January 2015, 09:12 AM
If the 'laws' are just for government employees why are so many non-government employees in jail?

Hatha

Why are you AWOL from Ft Eustis?

midnight rambler
1st January 2015, 09:15 AM
I wouldn't try to hang my coat on this hook if I had a U.S. passport

Why?

midnight rambler
1st January 2015, 09:17 AM
Try smoking a joint at DEA headquarters. If the 'laws' are just for government employees why are so many non-government employees in jail?

Hatha

From what I gather the presumption is made that everyone is a 'US citizen' and therefore an 'employee' of D.C. (short version)

crimethink
1st January 2015, 01:00 PM
Try smoking a joint at DEA headquarters. If the 'laws' are just for government employees why are so many non-government employees in jail?

LOL - seriously, I want to see one of these "Federal laws don't apply to me" types do something like that.

crimethink
1st January 2015, 01:01 PM
From what I gather the presumption is made that everyone is a 'US citizen' and therefore an 'employee' of D.C. (short version)

The Federal regime declares that anyone in the territory under its control is subject to its "laws," whether we consent or not. One does not "get out of trouble" by claiming one is not a "US Citizen."

palani
1st January 2015, 01:17 PM
LOL - seriously, I want to see one of these "Federal laws don't apply to me" types do something like that.

Seriously?

If you APPEAR at DEA headquarters then their rules do apply to you. Try to imagine being somewhere else (think Kans ... the approved form of abbreviation for Kansas in 1935... if you are a U.S. citizen ... however you DO NOT abbreviate the name of FOREIGN COUNTRIES ... so perhaps you would rather be in Kansas?)

http://i59.tinypic.com/2rfakcg.jpg

palani
1st January 2015, 01:25 PM
One does not "get out of trouble" by claiming one is not a "US Citizen."
However ...
Should one be born in U.S. territory COVERED BY A TREATY WITH THE U.S. then the terms of said treaty apply.


Article III

The inhabitants of the ceded territory shall be incorporated in the Union of the United States and admitted as soon as possible according to the principles of the federal Constitution to the enjoyment of all these rights, advantages and immunities of citizens of the United States, and in the mean time they shall be maintained and protected in the free enjoyment of their liberty, property and the Religion which they profess.

crimethink
1st January 2015, 01:48 PM
If you APPEAR at DEA headquarters then their rules do apply to you.

Why don't you take a video camera, stand across the street from a DEA field office in a state city, and toke up. Post the video footage, after you get out of the cage.

palani
1st January 2015, 02:19 PM
Why don't you take a video camera, stand across the street from a DEA field office in a state city, and toke up.

I don't 'toke up' at home. Why should I do it elsewhere?

crimethink
1st January 2015, 03:38 PM
I don't 'toke up' at home. Why should I do it elsewhere?

OK, how about a sawed-off shotgun in front of a BATF field office? Commit any "Federal felony" in front of a Federal "law enforcement" agency, but not on their property, and try to prove your contention.

If what you say is true, they will look at you and laugh or ignore you. If what I say is true, you'll need bail money. Get it all on video.

palani
1st January 2015, 04:04 PM
If what I say is true, you'll need bail money. Get it all on video.

No bail money needed. I thought I was doing pretty good to even get the Federal government served with process. Turned out to be not so hard after all.

http://i58.tinypic.com/27zapuo.jpg

Of course my witness was about a block away and out of range when this photo was taken.

Carl
1st January 2015, 04:07 PM
From what I gather the presumption is made that everyone is a 'US citizen' and therefore an 'employee' of D.C. (short version)

Actually, everyone is a member of the government, there are no 'citizens' in a democracy.

The government ceased being 'Federal' in 1913 with the 17th Amendment, which created the democracy.

palani
1st January 2015, 04:10 PM
The government ceased being 'Federal' in 1913 with the 17th Amendment, which created the democracy.
You are off a bit. The 14th amendment threw the federal baby out with the bathwater.

How else has their debt of $386,681,016 remained unchanged since 1878?

Cebu_4_2
1st January 2015, 05:35 PM
Today’s Federal Debt is about $18,078,837,197,000.
The amount is the gross outstanding federal debt (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np) issued by the United States Department of the Treasury since 1790. It doesn’t include state and local debt, and it doesn’t include the so-called unfunded liabilities of entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare.
Federal Debt per person is about $55,406.

palani
1st January 2015, 06:00 PM
Today’s Federal Debt is about $18,078,837,197,000.

If you don't have a FEDERAL government how can you have a FEDERAL debt?

You have to be capable of recognizing the 14th amendment as one of emancipation, as in where a parent emancipates a child, pats him on the rump and sets him out on his own.

Truly the FEDERAL debt is around $1 a person. But if you desire to remain with the DEMOCRATIC government then surely your fair share is $55,406. For myself, the smaller amount seems more affordable.

Hatha Sunahara
3rd January 2015, 08:58 AM
Why are you AWOL from Ft Eustis?

OK Palani, I got your point. We are all government employees. Would you care to explain how we arrived at that status? Is it the straw man we all have attached to our official existence? Is it something we agree to like when we tell the judge we understqnd? Or is it the Social Security card? Does citizenship make us employees of the government because we are subjects and owe allegiance for protedtion. Whatever it is, it's a fraud,

Hatha

palani
3rd January 2015, 09:04 AM
OK Palani, I got your point. We are all government employees. Would you care to explain how we arrived at that status? Is it the straw man we all have attached to our official existence? Is it something we agree to like when we tell the judge we understqnd? Or is it the Social Security card? Does citizenship make us employees of the government because we are subjects and owe allegiance for protedtion. Whatever it is, it's a fraud,

Hatha

No. Rather inattention to minor details. You might be charged with being AWOL and the specifications say to be AWOL you must not be present at your duty station without leave to be absent and the charge and the specification is all the court is interested in. But you forget the minor detail that you have no duty to be present at a duty station because you are not a member. Instead you plead innocent or not guilty and in doing so you plead into a fiction. The charge has been made, you cannot rebut the elements of the specification so you are found guilty.

Don't plead into a fiction. It doesn't matter what the court does. They are an illusion (being part of a bankrupt entity).

Unless you just want to be a nice guy and help them out a little?

Hatha Sunahara
3rd January 2015, 09:30 AM
No. Rather inattention to minor details. You might be charged with being AWOL and the specifications say to be AWOL you must not be present at your duty station without leave to be absent and the charge and the specification is all the court is interested in. But you forget the minor detail that you have no duty to be present at a duty station because you are not a member. Instead you plead innocent or not guilty and in doing so you plead into a fiction. The charge has been made, you cannot rebut the elements of the specification so you are found guilty.

Don't plead into a fiction. It doesn't matter what the court does. They are an illusion (being part of a bankrupt entity).

Unless you just want to be a nice guy and help them out a little?

Everything to do with how the government functions is a fiction or an illusion

Is that why you claim to live in a watershed? Because such an 'organization' won't trap you into a fiction if you lapse into inattentiveness? Or is it just your own counter-fiction?


Hatha

palani
3rd January 2015, 09:39 AM
Everything to do with how the government functions is a fiction or an illusion
Not everything. They probably do a pretty good job providing those 'benefits' ... like roads, airports, infrastructure, care of those who cannot care for themselves and quite a few other benefits.


Is that why you claim to live in a watershed? Because such an 'organization' won't trap you into a fiction if you lapse into inattentiveness? Or is it just your own counter-fiction?


Hatha

Watersheds are a natural division rather than an arbitrary political division. In the current political plane one might be Democrat, Republican, Independent, Libertarian or any number of other flavors. What do you reply when someone asks you which party you belong to? Perhaps you choose NONE OF THE ABOVE and label yourself the PARTY OF THE FIRST PART instead. You just defined your own political party but you did so in the political plane. You are permitted to do this.

Now apply the same concept to where you are geographically. If you choose a village, city or township then you are identifying yourself with some body politic. Where ELSE could you be and still be located physically at the same spot on the Earth? That is without providing incriminating evidence that you will later be charged for?