Dr. Carson Warns America: Do NOT Register Your Guns

[Cebu_4_2]

Dr. Carson Warns America: Do NOT Register Your Guns [READ]

Wednesday, April 30th, 2014

Gun control and further infringements of the Second Amendment are a dangerous and controversial topic in America. There are those that wish to control people, but an armed populace is not easily controlled.

The pro-gun control liberals in Washington seek to disarm the citizenry. One of the first steps in disarming people is gun registration.

Second Amendment supporters know that registration leads to confiscation, and confiscation in America will lead to a Second American Revolution (http://conservativetribune.com/second-american-revolution-over-gun-control/).

So gun owners across the nation, but particularly in Connecticut (http://conservativetribune.com/gun-owners-defy-registration/) and New York (http://conservativetribune.com/ny-gun-owners-rebel/) right now, are defiantly opposed and resistant to gun registration.

Now a respected voice on the right, one that has previously been in favor of some gun control, has come out in staunch resistance to gun registration schemes. Dr. Ben Carson said he no longer believes in gun registration because America’s insane national debt could turn the nation into a third-world country under martial law, a situation in which law-abiding and good people will need to be armed for protection.

(H/T Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/10/Dr-Ben-Carson-Against-Gun-Registration-Because-We-Should-Be-Really-Concerned-About-Martial-Law))
Carson, the retired neurosurgeon who has been getting buzz in conservative circles, said that he changed his mind and was against gun registration because of the “sinister internal forces” that could surface in that scenario. He said he “used to think they needed to be registered, but if you register them they just come and find you and take your guns.”
“If we were only concerned about external forces, then we would be okay,” he said. “But there are some pretty sinister internal forces.”

Dr. Carson asked the audience to consider a scenario in which countries around the globe have dropped the dollar as the reserve currency, making note that Russia has threatened to do just that in retaliation for sanctions imposed upon them.
“We have a national debt that is so high, and it’s being raised even higher,” he said. “Now, the only reason we can do that is because we are the reserve currency for the world. What if that changes?”
“What if other people come along?” Carson asked, saying China and the U.N have mentioned doing the same. “We would become a third-world nation overnight. Occupy Wall Street would be a walk in the park. And all of a sudden, the things that would be going on in this country which would necessitate marital law… all this could happen very rapidly. We should be really concerned.”

James Taranto, of The Wall Street Journal, asked Carson about his previous stance on gun registration, in which he supported gun control in urban areas to keep “crazy people” from having semi-automatic rifles in high-density cities.
“Do you think the Supreme Court was wrong when it found that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep arms in Washington, D.C., and Chicago?” Taranto asked.

“I truly believe in Second Amendment rights,” Carson said. “I would never advocate anything to interfere with Second Amendment rights; however, I do think we have to be intelligent.”

He said his point in saying that was to address situations–like in Detroit–where people with AK-47s are mowing people down.
“We need to engage in a discussion about, ‘Is there something we can do?'” Carson said before saying that “we have to keep in mind that law-abiding American citizens absolutely should have gun rights.”


Dr. Ben Carson is of course correct, the American people must never register their guns. The people have an inherent and natural right to keep and bear arms, for the direct purpose of keeping their “leaders” in check. The Framers were well aware of the dangers of a tyrannical government versus an unarmed population, and did their best to ensure such a situation would never occur in America.

Unfortunately, over the years our government has indeed infringed upon our natural right to be armed, and intends to infringe even more. As stated before, registration leads to confiscation. A list of registered guns in this country, in the hands of our current “gestapo-like” administration (http://conservativetribune.com/obama-is-copying-nazi-germany/), would certainly result in confiscation and the disarming of law-abiding and good citizens.

Of course, criminals don’t follow laws, so they won’t register their guns, and will remain armed. And the government will most definitely remain armed, otherwise how will they enforce their gun control laws?

[mick silver]

Dr. Ben Carson: Obama is Copying Nazi Germany ... http://conservativetribune.com/obama-is-copying-nazi-germany/

[General of Darkness]

Dr. Ben Carson: Obama is Copying Nazi Germany ... http://conservativetribune.com/obama-is-copying-nazi-germany/

Actually that is not true. Hitler was giving the guns back. The previous administration in Germany did the gun confiscations.

[crimethink]

If you ask for permission to carry a weapon, you just registered your firearm.

"Concealed Carry Permit" = voluntary registration of firearm.

[Shami-Amourae]

I already have a CCW so I'm fucked.

Then again I ALWAYS carry.
:)

[crimethink]

Dr. Ben Carson: Obama is Copying Nazi Germany ... http://conservativetribune.com/obama-is-copying-nazi-germany/

Ah, so Ben Carson the Poster Boy Magic Negro is just another lying Nigger.

FACT: Hitler rescinded numerous gun control measures imposed by the "democratic" Weimar Republik.

www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/gcnsg.pdf

https://archive.org/details/GunControlInGermany1928-1945

Documentary evidence is presented at those links, including reproductions from the 1928 & 1938 Reich Law Gazette. Anyone who says "Hitler took away all the guns" is a f**king liar, or an idiot. Or both.

[crimethink]

Jewish liberal admits Hitler "gun control" claims are horseshit:

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

[Cebu_4_2]

Jewish liberal admits Hitler "gun control" claims are horseshit:

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

General population has no clue what or who Hitler was so claiming he took away guns is about as good as you can put it without an elaborate re-education.

[crimethink]

General population has no clue what or who Hitler was so claiming he took away guns is about as good as you can put it without an elaborate re-education.

Hitler™ and Nazi™ are not a personal name or an epithet for a political movement any more. They are brand names. Slap "Hitler" or "Nazi" and/or a Swastika on a book, movie, or other item, and you're guaranteed to sell it, since the masses love the "evil intrigue" that those brand names imply.

Hitler™ is the standard by which "evil" is judged in this Kosher system.

[Hatha Sunahara]

Russia just made it legal for their citizens to own guns. Of course it's all regulated and controlled, but they trust their citizens with guns.

Hatha

[EE_]

Are American police above the law?
Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:35PM GMT
Tim King

Police have abused American citizens increasingly since the activists of the Civil Rights period insisted on fairness for all regardless of the color of their skin.

Race, economic status, appearance, age, gender... these have all been used against American citizens by those publicly paid employees in law enforcement for generations. In recent years, police in the US have become immune to the laws that regulate others. The very legal requirements they are hired to enforce, are ignored and disregarded by a large percentage of police.

While many in law enforcement enter the ranks with a competent sense of moral judgment, their sense of right and wrong is ultimately worn down by the acts of the truly corrupt. The only thing a police officer has to do to be corrupt and morally flawed, is to ignore the illegal actions of other officers. To this day, I have not met a single police officer who agrees that the beating of Rodney King by LAPD officers was wrong. No matter how it is presented, the "wall of blue" determines how law enforcement officers view that historical nightmare that led to the South Central riots in Los Angeles. Their judgments are a stain on the moral fabric of the profession they chose to aspire to.

Police today know that they can blow a person's head off without repercussion.

They know they can shoot their tasers at children and little old ladies with confidence. They further understand that poor records rarely lead to dismissals, and that truly bad cops need only go to another agency for a new cop job, since no system exists to flag those who have been fired.

They know that they use separate standards for people they consider upstanding, and others who have been arrested in the past. This is especially true of gang members, who generally hail from extremely dangerous neighborhoods where gang membership and affiliation are one of the only ways to stay alive.

They know that the very worst police work involving cruelty and total disregard for public safety, will be excused or glossed over.

They also know that a large percentage of police look the other way if and when they discover that a driver they have pulled over is a fellow member of the law enforcement community. The list of inequities goes on and on.

This endemic problem causes millions of Americans to hate and fear police and the problems are spiraling out of control, as witnessed last week in New York. NYPD officers collectively turned their backs on their elected leader. This happened because the climate of today affirms to those officers that they are in fact above the law. In the military, such an act could have an incredible rebound effect. But police, protected by determined union representatives and White, conservative Americans, are quite accustomed to getting away with murder.

I have been observing this growing problem for many years. In Southern California, police routinely abuse citizens, it is not unusual. Of course the bad cops tend to go after people of color but that is one area where police do not always discriminate.

On YouTube there are so many clips of police being illegal and abusive that they could never be tallied. Every possible description of crime committed by police can be viewed and there is one common theme: nearly every officer, deputy or trooper shown was able to commit their crime without ramifications. Nearly every one of them was able to carry on as if nothing had happened.

The worst part of police corruption is that cops retaliate against others in law enforcement who try to bring attention to illegal police activity. The whistleblowers are shunned by their fellow officers and often framed, then prosecuted aggressively under false circumstances. Truth and facts have no place here. The only thing that really matters to police is not seeing an officer convicted or judged to have been wrong in their actions.

It is hard to determine exactly what the American people will do, as they have become so excessively accustomed to nearly worshiping police.

The truth is that all police officers are in careers that they personally sought for themselves. Agencies will even go so far as to spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars at the occasional police funeral. I have witnessed a procession of more than 500 police and other government cars at a police funeral. One can only imagine the exorbitant cost of such affairs. The officer funeral I witnessed with 500 cars, took place because one police officer chose to murder two other police officers.

All police affirm an allegiance to the United States and swear that they will uphold precious Civil Rights, yet the perverse levels of racism continue to paint an ugly picture that is not easily dismissed or ignored. Government officials refuse to hold police officers accountable for their actions. Only a handful are ever prosecuted or even held to account. They are paid well in almost every case and the taxpayers cover their costs for insurance, healthcare, everything.

The recent incident in New York proves that police are not following any orders they do not specifically agree to. Their actions are egregious and regrettable and really far out of hand. We learned a great deal about NYPD during Occupy, and the lessons keep coming.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/12/30/392461/are-american-police-above-the-law/

[zap]

I have watched/listened to Dr Ben Carson and think he speaks very well, He makes alot of sense, but is he just telling us what we want to hear? I actually like him ..... But It does scare me that he does speak so well. Could he get into the heads of alot of folks and then turn around and screw all of us like Obama has.

[midnight rambler]

How much willful ignorance is going on with Dr. Carson - feigned or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[crimethink]

How much willful ignorance is going on with Dr. Carson - feigned or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

He's the Republican Obama.

[midnight rambler]

He's the Republican Obama.

Yep, just another house Negro.

[gunDriller]

I already have a CCW so I'm fucked.

Then again I ALWAYS carry.
:)


had a friend over the other day, talking machine tools, went off on a tangent about guns.

i had a counterbore cutter with a perfect .375 ID. knew it would fit a .38 special.

he brought out a 38 mini which he was carrying in his pocket. nice little hand-gun. he showed me the red dot of the laser sight.

$300 he said, new.


shit, i said, i thought guns were more expensive these days.


ANYWAY, what i can't understand is, how do people carry gun holsters in their pockets without their pants falling down ?

i usually have keys + cell-phone + 1 or more cameras in my pockets, so i always wear suspenders when i work.


of course with CCW there's other places to carry.

but if i had 3 pounds of steel in my pocket, my pants would be around my knees.

[mick silver]

I carry this in my pockets when I go to places they don't want you to carry in it light an small , I prefer my 1911 but some time it hard to carry in some places one has to travel to http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/index.html?r=y . this is the pocket holster I use with the ruger 380 http://www.amazon.com/Galco-Protector-Holster-Natural-Ambidextrous/dp/B007PI9DDK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1420122505&sr=8-4&keywords=pocket+holster+bodyguard+380+ruger its light in the pocket

[EE_]

Another of the many reasons I dont like ccw permits

Gun owners fear Maryland cops target them for traffic stops

A year ago this New Year’s Eve, John Filippidis of Florida was driving south with his family on Interstate 95 when the Maryland Transportation Authority Police pulled over his black Ford Expedition and proceeded to raid it while his twins, wife and daughter looked on — separated in the back seats of different police cruisers.

The officers were searching for Mr. Filippidis‘ Florida-licensed, palm-size Kel-Tec .38 semi-automatic handgun, which he left at home locked in his safe. (Maryland does not recognize handgun permits issued by other states.)

Read the rest: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/30/gun-owners-fear-maryland-cops-target-them-for-traf/?page=1

[gunDriller]

not trying to change the subject, Shami said something about guns and that got me started.


getting back to Carson, he sounds good BUT he is the House Negro "Unless & Until" he speaks independence about Israel.


it is near certain that he has to 'play along' to get into the White House.

in only his wife and a few of his associates would he have confided, if he is truly independent about Israel.


but it looks like there's only one way to find out.

[midnight rambler]

The very moment he indicates he won't fall to his knees and suck some Zionist schlong on command is the moment he indicates he doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell. Adelson and his pals will make sure of that, it's a foregone conclusion.

[palani]

Attitude is all wrong. You never register anything that is yours. You register your equitable rights to something that legally/lawfully belongs to someone else. Why else do you believe that your goods can be separated from your possession so quickly and painlessly?

Abandon is a word of art of equity. In law rights are vested or divested. Perhaps you might consider abandoning any claim you might have to your things and make a statement that none of your rights to these things have been divested.

[madfranks]

If you ask for permission to carry a weapon, you just registered your firearm.

"Concealed Carry Permit" = voluntary registration of firearm.

Not really. I have a CCW but the state doesn't know what guns I own, or which I may be carrying at any moment. The fact that they know you own a gun doesn't mean said gun is registered.

[midnight rambler]

Not really. I have a CCW but the state doesn't know what guns I own, or which I may be carrying at any moment. The fact that they know you own a gun doesn't mean said gun is registered.

But YOU have *registered* as a 'gun owner'. Now try driving through Maryland.

[madfranks]

But YOU have *registered* as a 'gun owner'. Now try driving through Maryland.

I get that, I was just pointing out that "registering" myself as a gun owner because I have a CCW is not the same a registering the guns themselves.

[Hitch]

Not really. I have a CCW but the state doesn't know what guns I own, or which I may be carrying at any moment. The fact that they know you own a gun doesn't mean said gun is registered.

From what I've been told, in CA with a CCW you can only carry certain guns that are registered of course, and listed on the permit.

[EE_]

From what I've been told, in CA with a CCW you can only carry certain guns that are registered of course, and listed on the permit.

That's the way I understand it too, in most states you register a specific gun to your ccw permit.

[mick silver]

not in ky ee

[EE_]

Not really. I have a CCW but the state doesn't know what guns I own, or which I may be carrying at any moment. The fact that they know you own a gun doesn't mean said gun is registered.

It's besides the point what you registered. If a cop runs your plate, he immediately knows you have a ccw and are probably carrying a firearm. That makes you a target in some states when traveling.

You do know, you are required to tell a cop immediately upon being stopped that you have a firearm when you are a ccw carrier.

[Shami-Amourae]

had a friend over the other day, talking machine tools, went off on a tangent about guns.

i had a counterbore cutter with a perfect .375 ID. knew it would fit a .38 special.

he brought out a 38 mini which he was carrying in his pocket. nice little hand-gun. he showed me the red dot of the laser sight.

$300 he said, new.


shit, i said, i thought guns were more expensive these days.


ANYWAY, what i can't understand is, how do people carry gun holsters in their pockets without their pants falling down ?

i usually have keys + cell-phone + 1 or more cameras in my pockets, so i always wear suspenders when i work.


of course with CCW there's other places to carry.

but if i had 3 pounds of steel in my pocket, my pants would be around my knees.

You have to buy a very study belt. I carry IWB at 4:00 O'Clock. I have 5.11 pants which have a pocket for a Glock magazine too, so I do that with a spare magazine.
http://www.amazon.com/5-11-74251-Cotton-Tactical-34-30/dp/B0019MPRD8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiud3jnM8Qc

I keep a cell phone holster on the opposite side of my body from where the gun rides so nothing abnormal seems to pop out when I carry. It helps to have an overshirt, or a hoodie on. You also want to wear a shirt 1-2 sizes larger than you normally would. This setup is extremely low profile and professional looking.


I sometimes pocket carry but it's mainly only if I'm running out to take out the trash or something simple like that. The pocket holsters are designed so they don't fall out of your pocket easy. The thing that I fear with them is when I stuff it into my pocket and try to take a loaded gun OUT of my pocket with the holster too, which isn't very easy.

[madfranks]

That's the way I understand it too, in most states you register a specific gun to your ccw permit.

Not in Colorado.

[Shami-Amourae]

It's besides the point what you registered. If a cop runs your plate, he immediately knows you have a ccw and are probably carrying a firearm. That makes you a target in some states when traveling.

You do know, you are required to tell a cop immediately upon being stopped that you have a firearm when you are a ccw carrier.

I was told in my CCW class you should hand over both your Drivers License and CCW License at the same time, even if they only ask from the Drivers License. If you say, "I have a gun" the cop may freak out.

[mick silver]

I was pull over a few months back I never took my hands off the steering wheel till I told the cop I had a ccw and a gun on me , but he already knew this .

[crimethink]

Another of the many reasons I dont like ccw permits

Gun owners fear Maryland cops target them for traffic stops

A year ago this New Year’s Eve, John Filippidis of Florida was driving south with his family on Interstate 95 when the Maryland Transportation Authority Police pulled over his black Ford Expedition and proceeded to raid it while his twins, wife and daughter looked on — separated in the back seats of different police cruisers.

The officers were searching for Mr. Filippidis‘ Florida-licensed, palm-size Kel-Tec .38 semi-automatic handgun, which he left at home locked in his safe. (Maryland does not recognize handgun permits issued by other states.)

Read the rest: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/30/gun-owners-fear-maryland-cops-target-them-for-traf/?page=1

Thank you for posting this, I was going to!

[crimethink]

Not really. I have a CCW but the state doesn't know what guns I own, or which I may be carrying at any moment. The fact that they know you own a gun doesn't mean said gun is registered.

Gun registration is not about which individual guns are out there, but who controls them, and where they (likely) are.

[crimethink]

From what I've been told, in CA with a CCW you can only carry certain guns that are registered of course, and listed on the permit.

That is correct.

But like I said earlier, it's not about "which" guns, but who has control of them. If "they" ever decide to try confiscation, the CCW lists are first in line for "action."

[Hitch]

I was told in my CCW class you should hand over both your Drivers License and CCW License at the same time, even if they only ask from the Drivers License. If you say, "I have a gun" the cop may freak out.

Handing over the CCW with your DL is a good idea, I think. The biggest thing to consider is that when a cop pulls you over, he or she, is thinking about their safety when approaching the vehicle. What I did, when pulled over several months ago. Shut off the car, put the keys on the dash, rolled down the window and kept my hands on the steering wheel. I said, the keys are the dash there, my registration and insurance is in the visor above me, and my drivers license is in my right front pocket in my wallet. Kept my hands on the wheel until I got his OK to get them out. For CCW, just add that you have CCW, which he knows about, and tell him where the gun is.

In return, that cop treated me extremely well.

To add a funny story, pulled over a car with 3 guys in it once, and they all put their hands up and out of the windows of the car. Knew those dudes were from LA immediately.

[EE_]

Handing over the CCW with your DL is a good idea, I think.


I wonder if the cops have access to medical marijuana registrations?
If you have a CCW, they could say you are not legally allowed to own a firearm, no?

I know this is still not worked out in Colorado.

[palani]

Handing over the CCW with your DL is a good idea

Just tell 'em you have a 2nd amendment right to bear arms and that you have in your possession 1) a flag 2) a seal and 3) a coat of arms. Now don't bother to lie about it. If you don't have 'em go out and get 'em.

[Hitch]

I wonder if the cops have access to medical marijuana registrations?
If you have a CCW, they could say you are not legally allowed to own a firearm, no?

I know this is still not worked out in Colorado.

I never had to deal with any CCW in my short time, there just wasn't any. Half the drivers didn't have either a license or registration, it was a big problem.

The medical marijuana registrations we liked. When they handed over a card, we never questioned it, and let them go. One time we pulled over a car with 4 big rasta dudes in it. These guys reeked, badly, but they all had cards on them. The driver was sober. They had just left a big hemp festival. Cracking jokes with those guys, completely baked, makes me smile. That was a good time.

[crimethink]

I wonder if the cops have access to medical marijuana registrations?

We should presume they do, and this is why I have opposed California's 215 cards from the beginning. Not because I'm against God's good green herb, but because I oppose the ulterior purpose of such registration.

[crimethink]

Just tell 'em you have a 2nd amendment right to bear arms and that you have in your possession 1) a flag 2) a seal and 3) a coat of arms. Now don't bother to lie about it. If you don't have 'em go out and get 'em.

Do that, and I guarantee you'll be asked to "step out of the vehicle" at gunpoint. "Dispatch, I have a 'sovereign citizen' here, send back up immediately!"

[madfranks]

That is correct.

But like I said earlier, it's not about "which" guns, but who has control of them. If "they" ever decide to try confiscation, the CCW lists are first in line for "action."

Right, and then they will try to take the one, single solitary gun I own. Perhaps I will comply, perhaps I wont.

[palani]

"Dispatch, I have a 'sovereign citizen' here, send back up immediately!"

This alone should tell you that you are involved with an irrational 'person'. Sovereign citizen is an oxymoron. Do you spend much time in the Land of the Living Dead?

[midnight rambler]

Do you spend much time in the Land of the Living Dead?

Nothing at all unusual about that, most people do.

[crimethink]

Right, and then they will try to take the one, single solitary gun I own. Perhaps I will comply, perhaps I wont.

Why expose oneself?

[crimethink]

This alone should tell you that you are involved with an irrational 'person'. Sovereign citizen is an oxymoron.

It doesn't matter what your perception of "sovereign citizen" is, it only matters what the ADL, SPLC, and DHS have taught all cops about "sovereign citizens." Start claiming the Bill of Rights trumps "law," and you're going to be viewed as a "sovereign citizen."

You cannot or will not accept that fact.

[palani]

You cannot or will not accept that fact.

fact (n.)
1530s, "action, anything done," especially "evil deed"

See .... it is no wonder you get confused. You don't even know what a fact is.

[chad]

if you filled out a 4473 to purchase it, you already registered it.

[crimethink]

if you filled out a 4473 to purchase it, you already registered it.

This is true, but, at least with 4473s, they are not routinely updated with current whereabouts as with CCWs.

I remember how the liberals shrieked when 4473s were used for confiscation in 1984's "Red Dawn."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmrYVJWwBfE

[madfranks]

Why expose oneself?

Because I calculated that the benefits of being able to legally carry concealed outweighs the negatives of "exposing" myself.

[madfranks]

if you filled out a 4473 to purchase it, you already registered it.

And if you didn't fill out a 4473, you didn't.

[mick silver]

ky you do not need a ccw but if you carry out in the open gets you some bad looks in the city and plus I do travel to the big shit city once are twice a week . and I prefer not being fick with

[madfranks]

ky you do not need a ccw but if you carry out in the open gets you some bad looks in the city and plus I do travel to the big shit city once are twice a week . and I prefer not being fick with

Same thing here. It's legal to open carry most places, but you'll make more of a ruckus if you do. Carrying concealed is way better anyway, you keep the element of surprise, should you need it.

[palani]

Choose your words carefully. Concealment is not a good thing.


Fraud occurs when one person substantially misrepresents or
conceals a material fact peculiarly within his own knowledge, in
consequence of which a delusion exists; or uses a device
naturally calculated to lull the suspicions of a careful man, and
induce him to forego inquiry into a matter upon which the other
party has information, although such information be not
exclusively within his reach.

[midnight rambler]

Choose your words carefully. Concealment is not a good thing.

So what you're suggesting is that one should open carry a pre-1898 sidearm, right?

[7th trump]

if you filled out a 4473 to purchase it, you already registered it.

You sure about that?
Last I knew the 4473 was for a nics check.
The nics tells the store if they can procede with a sale or not for that specific person.
You can fill a 4473 out but the government still doesnt know if the store went through with the sale or not.

[crimethink]

You can fill a 4473 out but the government still doesnt know if the store went through with the sale or not.

LOL - you're serious?

[midnight rambler]

Last I knew the 4473 was for a nics check.

Apparently you don't know much 'cause the form 4473 has been around since GCA '68.

[7th trump]

LOL - you're serious?

Yes I'm serious....I take it you never actually asked anyone.
I happen to ask the store manager what it was for and if the 4473 actually said I bought a weapon.
He said the government doesn't know if we (the store) sells a weapon or not...all it is is a background check for the store to be able to proceed with the sale.....or not. Its illegal to sell and weapon to a criminal...and hence the NIC system is put into place.
A coworker registered his pistol and that form for registering isn't the 4473.
I would assume the government doesn't mess around and see's the 4473 as an actual purchase....but I don't really know.
Besides I believe you register your weapons with the state...not the feds. A ccw is a state issue not a federal issue.
Yep just checked....the feds don't have any laws for gun registration except for machine guns and the like.

Maybe you should do some due diligence on something before assuming.
The lack of due diligence is a major problem with most here.

[midnight rambler]

The lack of due diligence is a major problem with most here.

Oh the irony!!!

[7th trump]

Apparently you don't know much 'cause the form 4473 has been around since GCA '68.

Yeah big deal...the gun control act of 1968.
Nowhere, from what I read about the GCA68 as a gun registry. Its gun control...but not gun registry.

[midnight rambler]

Yeah big deal...the gun control act of 1968.
Nowhere, from what I read about the GCA68 as a gun registry. Its gun control...but not gun registry.

Apparently in your very brief, cursory look into GCA '68 you failed to uncover the following:

BATFags have been known to bring their own photocopy machine into FFLs and photocopy every single 4473 the FFL had (de facto registration) and every page of their accompanying bound book(s).

When a FFL closes his doors he's required* to send ALL his 4473s (less than 20 years old) and the accompanying bound books (where virtually ALL transactions are recorded INCLUDING any gun left overnight with the gun shop, pawn shop, or gunsmith EVEN THOUGH this action does not entail a sale/transfer) to the BATFags where they are supposedly warehoused ONLY (by law) however many folks in the gun community have concluded the BATFags been covertly scanning all those records and putting those scans into data retrieval systems. After 20 years a FFL can destroy the 4473s however the bound books are FOREVER and eventually end up in the hands of the BATFags. This is all de facto registration through the back door.

*there have been cases of jooish lightning associated with some gun shop owners retiring

[crimethink]

Apparently in your very brief, cursory look into GCA '68 you failed to uncover the following:

BATFags have been known to bring their own photocopy machine into FFLs and photocopy every single 4473 the FFL had (de facto registration) and every page of their accompanying bound book(s).

When a FFL closes his doors he's required* to send ALL his 4473s (less than 20 years old) and the accompanying bound books (where virtually ALL transactions are recorded INCLUDING any gun left overnight with the gun shop, pawn shop, or gunsmith EVEN THOUGH this action does not entail a sale/transfer) to the BATFags where they are supposedly warehoused ONLY (by law) however many folks in the gun community have concluded the BATFags been covertly scanning all those records and putting those scans into data retrieval systems. After 20 years a FFL can destroy the 4473s however the bound books are FOREVER and eventually end up in the hands of the BATFags. This is all de facto registration through the back door.

*there have been cases of jooish lightning associated with some gun shop owners retiring

In addition to paper 4473s, the NICS check itself, while apparently not recording firearm serial numbers, does register the gunowner in a permanent database.

Anyone interested, review the help documents for information required for the transaction:

http://www.nicsezcheckfbi.gov/help/ENG/help.html

[palani]

So what you're suggesting is that one should open carry a pre-1898 sidearm, right?

I prefer to carry a flag, a seal and a coat of arms. However it is the commerce that these federalized states choose to regulate and those older rifles and handguns are deemed not to have been engaged in commerce.

On the other hand I notice for around $40 FRN you can get a 25.4 mm to 12 ga converter for a flare gun. Neither of these is regulated but chances are if you combine the two and throw a shell in the chamber .... who knows what the outcome would be? Probably the courts would say that the military has nothing similar so you would be SOL.

[crimethink]

I prefer to carry a flag, a seal and a coat of arms. However it is the commerce that these federalized states choose to regulate and those older rifles and handguns are deemed not to have been engaged in commerce.


The Federal regime and states have no authority to infringe on keeping & bearing arms (as in, weapons, not your idiot "definition" of heraldry).




On the other hand I notice for around $40 FRN you can get a 25.4 mm to 12 ga converter for a flare gun. Neither of these is regulated but chances are if you combine the two and throw a shell in the chamber .... who knows what the outcome would be? Probably the courts would say that the military has nothing similar so you would be SOL.

Try that shotgun shell in the flare gun thing and you'll need a physician if not an undertaker. No need to worry about the black-robed whores.

[mick silver]

just what the hell a gun , I have never seen one what's it for

[palani]

just what the hell a gun , I have never seen one what's it for

Never been in the military mick?

The drill sergeant describes it very well

This is my rifle
This is my gun
The first is for fighting
The second for fun

[palani]

The Federal regime and states have no authority to infringe on keeping & bearing arms (as in, weapons, not your idiot "definition" of heraldry).
If you have had success with your definition of 'arms' in the 2nd amendment then I give my best to you and yours. My definition of 'arm' makes clear to anyone that I don't include firearms. Those are covered by the law of nature that states that I may take anything into my hands to insure my survival. This is a natural right that may not be legislated, negotiated or contracted away.

I can find no source other than the 2nd amendment to assert my right to carry a seal, a flag or a coat of arms so reason dictates that this is where these rights are guaranteed.


Try that shotgun shell in the flare gun thing and you'll need a physician if not an undertaker. No need to worry about the black-robed whores.
Doesn't that depend upon the direction it is pointed when discharged?

[midnight rambler]

Try that shotgun shell in the flare gun thing and you'll need a physician if not an undertaker.

A 12 ga. shotshell definitely doesn't produce pressures as high as a rifle or even a pistol. The only point that the pressure would need to be contained with such an arrangement would be where the charge is. It's highly unlikely someone would produce a device which would very quickly result litigation as a result of a failure. If the flare gun can withstand a flare discharge then it can certain withstand a shotshell opening up inside where there is no real pressure to speak of (being that there's non-existent restriction in the flare gun barrel).

[7th trump]

Apparently in your very brief, cursory look into GCA '68 you failed to uncover the following:

BATFags have been known to bring their own photocopy machine into FFLs and photocopy every single 4473 the FFL had (de facto registration) and every page of their accompanying bound book(s).

When a FFL closes his doors he's required* to send ALL his 4473s (less than 20 years old) and the accompanying bound books (where virtually ALL transactions are recorded INCLUDING any gun left overnight with the gun shop, pawn shop, or gunsmith EVEN THOUGH this action does not entail a sale/transfer) to the BATFags where they are supposedly warehoused ONLY (by law) however many folks in the gun community have concluded the BATFags been covertly scanning all those records and putting those scans into data retrieval systems. After 20 years a FFL can destroy the 4473s however the bound books are FOREVER and eventually end up in the hands of the BATFags. This is all de facto registration through the back door.

*there have been cases of jooish lightning associated with some gun shop owners retiring

So why wouldn't the BATF not want copies of 4473's....its their form.
And from reading the BATF only make copies of 4483's when I store goes out of business.
Furthermore, these 4473 forms aren't sent to the BATF....they are kept at the store.............hmm.......doesn't sound like a government registry to me.
Whats your agenda fool?

See......thats the problem I have with fools who project what they want everyone to believe. Which is what rambler?
Its not the truth your projecting.......so what is it?..............its a lie that's what it is!
You project lies midnight.
Deception, lies and half truths.....that seems to be your motto.
Untrustworthiness...all while propping up the soviet communism war machine........the same people who brought this so called .......jooish lightning you act like you hate.

Do you hate the soviet jews or not?
You love communism...but masquerade as a jew hater.
You cant hate jews while parading their form of satanic NWO government.
You're fucked in the head!

You belong to the tribe don't you rambler.

[7th trump]

If you have had success with your definition of 'arms' in the 2nd amendment then I give my best to you and yours. My definition of 'arm' makes clear to anyone that I don't include firearms. Those are covered by the law of nature that states that I may take anything into my hands to insure my survival. This is a natural right that may not be legislated, negotiated or contracted away.

I can find no source other than the 2nd amendment to assert my right to carry a seal, a flag or a coat of arms so reason dictates that this is where these rights are guaranteed.


Doesn't that depend upon the direction it is pointed when discharged?

Wrong!!!
The federal government acknowledges the 2nd amendment means "weapons"...as in rifles and handguns.

This link here shows the proof.
http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/pvcright.htm


Palani you need to shut up and listen and stop injecting your ridicules interpretations.

[palani]

Wrong!!!
The federal government acknowledges the 2nd amendment means "weapons"...as in rifles and handguns.
And who ever said that interpretation of the U.S. constitution was an exclusive GOVERNMENT job?


This link here shows the proof.
http://1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/pvcright.htm You see PROOF there? Do you see snakes on the wall too?



you need to shut up and listen and stop injecting your ridicules interpretations. And when were YOU authorized to censure my freedom of speech?

[7th trump]

And who ever said that interpretation of the U.S. constitution was an exclusive GOVERNMENT job?

You see PROOF there? Do you see snakes on the wall too?


And when were YOU authorized to censure my freedom of speech?
Ahhhh there it is.......
And when were YOU authorized to censure my freedom of speech
You'll recognize the government to sensor me of your freedom of speech....but I cannot question your interpretation by proving in that link a government admittance that the 2nd amendment is about "weapons" over your senseless coat of arms theory.

Nice ploy of hypocrisy....watch what you say.....you cant have it both ways.

[crimethink]

A 12 ga. shotshell definitely doesn't produce pressures as high as a rifle or even a pistol. The only point that the pressure would need to be contained with such an arrangement would be where the charge is. It's highly unlikely someone would produce a device which would very quickly result litigation as a result of a failure. If the flare gun can withstand a flare discharge then it can certain withstand a shotshell opening up inside where there is no real pressure to speak of (being that there's non-existent restriction in the flare gun barrel).

You got me thinking, so I looked around. Common modern flare gun without the adapter:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX5HT97m0Pc

Significantly stronger than I thought!


A discussion of flare guns as weapons:

http://www.guns.com/2013/01/02/flare-guns-as-weapons/

[crimethink]

Furthermore, these 4473 forms aren't sent to the BATF....they are kept at the store.............hmm.......doesn't sound like a government registry to me.

As was pointed out, BATF thugs sometimes bring portable copy machines with them during an inspection, and copy the 4473s. That's not something he pulled out of his ass; it's something I've been made aware of, as well.

[Shami-Amourae]

A discussion of flare guns as weapons:

http://www.guns.com/2013/01/02/flare-guns-as-weapons/

I made a thread on it a while back:
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?73435-22-Pistol-made-from-Flare-Gun



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vfQwdszJYM

They add inserts and shoot bullets in the videos, just keep watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWROn6d40I

[midnight rambler]

You got me thinking, so I looked around. Common modern flare gun without the adapter:



I was thinking of the 37mm grenade launcher rather than the cheapo plastic 26.5mm flare gun. There are no 12 ga. shotshell adapters for the 26.5mm gun, but there are for the 37mm however doing this renders the 37mm launcher a NFA regulated destructive device - http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/37mm_adapters.html

[7th trump]

As was pointed out, BATF thugs sometimes bring portable copy machines with them during an inspection, and copy the 4473s. That's not something he pulled out of his ass; it's something I've been made aware of, as well.

So what!
As I pointed out making copies when an FFL goes out of business isn't a registry.
Ever thought that maybe they don't want to lose the 4473's before the 20 years is up?

Show me on the 4473 it says a gun was purchased....until you can its not a registry.
The 4473 is a background check to be able to purchase a weapon....that's it and nothing more.
And what about all the other 100's of thousands of FFL's out there that the BATF doesn't make copies of?
You only want to see one side ...and refuse to see the other side to get a full picture to get to the truth........so what about the other 100's of thousands of FFL's out there that the BATF doesn't make copies of?
You people are such paranoid conspiracy nut jobs its a wonder you can get your underwear on correctly...if at all.
Hahahahaha......you goofs got yourself brainwashed into a corner.

[palani]

You'll recognize the government to sensor me of your freedom of speech
??? ... Mares eat oats and does eat oats but little lambs eat ivy



I cannot question your interpretation by proving in that link a government admittance that the 2nd amendment is about "weapons" over your senseless coat of arms theory.
And you don't recognize seals, flags or coats of arms as WEAPONS? Who said these things aren't weapons? On a paper battlefield I wouldn't be very effective without any of them.

[crimethink]

I was thinking of the 37mm grenade launcher rather than the cheapo plastic 26.5mm flare gun. There are no 12 ga. shotshell adapters for the 26.5mm gun, but there are for the 37mm however doing this renders the 37mm launcher a NFA regulated destructive device - http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/37mm_adapters.html

Yes, I often forget there are "real" flare guns other than the Orions you find at Wal-Mart. LOL.

[crimethink]

So what!
As I pointed out making copies when an FFL goes out of business isn't a registry.
Ever thought that maybe they don't want to lose the 4473's before the 20 years is up?

Show me on the 4473 it says a gun was purchased....until you can its not a registry.
The 4473 is a background check to be able to purchase a weapon....that's it and nothing more.

Man, you really enjoy embarrassing yourself.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Pay attention to Items 1 - 9 and 26 - 30a.

Copy the 4473, and then use an ADF at your office to scan them into the database. Really, it's not a lot of work. Mostly automated.

[7th trump]

Man, you really enjoy embarrassing yourself.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Pay attention to Items 1 - 9 and 26 - 30a.

Copy the 4473, and then use an ADF at your office to scan them into the database. Really, it's not a lot of work. Mostly automated.

Still nothing on the form remotely suggesting a sale took place.
And the 4473 form isn't sent to the government............its kept on file at the FFL location for up to 20 years. Which then it can be destroyed and the government is none the wiser.

Try again please. This time try and be honest and not inject foolish conspiracy theories you relish and cherish.

Heres what an actual gun registry form looks like crimethink.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

Notice anything?
Its a state form...not a federal government form.
You'll find out that all gun registry forms are state issue because the US constitution doesn't allow the feds that kind of control.

Ohhh heck...I'll spell it out for you since you cannot think for yourself, that is outside conspiracy theories you follow. The Bill of Rights, you know the 1st ten amendments, (not the civil rights act of 1866) rest completely and solely at the state level.
This is why I linked www.1215.org so you would actually read it in hopes you may learn something worth learning. But I highly doubt you're trainable with your ego.

[collector]

If you ask for permission to carry a weapon, you just registered your firearm.

"Concealed Carry Permit" = voluntary registration of firearm.


It's really just registering yourself as a gun owner, something all those NICs background checks attached to your name, do as well

[7th trump]

It's really just registering yourself as a gun owner, something all those NICs background checks attached to your name, do as well

How is a ccw registering as a gun owner?
I know of a few people here in Iowa who have their ccw and don't own a handgun or rifle.
In fact, when I went through the CCW class only 6 out of 37 owned a gun. The rest wanted to get their CCW with possibly purchasing a gun in the future. A lot of older people was there...mostly in their 50's in that CCW class...maybe 4 or 5 or so 20 and 30 somethings, but mostly people in their 50's.

And no a 4473 isn't a registry of gun ownership...the 4473 isn't even sent to the government unless the FFL retires then the government wants all the 4473's for the last 20 years.
The 4473 is only for FFL holders for background checks for purchasers. The state of Iowa says I can buy and sell privately without filling out a 4473......so much for a 4473 being a gun registry.
My last hand gun purchase I showed my CCW, photo ID and filled out the 4473 and they didn't even call the NICs to verify. As soon as I filled out the 4473 he handed me the 9mm and I paid for it right there and walked out.......8 minutes tops and I was out the door.
When I went to the sheriff's office to get the CCW I wasn't finger printed either...and no gun range training like some states require. All I did was show them a photo ID and the certificate of CCW class competition and they took my picture and printed out the CCW card....just like a drivers license.
The CCW basically trumped the NICs check even though I had to fill a 4473 out....but big deal...I walked out with a 9mm ruger in under 8 minutes. Basically having a CCW is saying I'm not a criminal and you are NICs checked when you apply at the sheriffs for the CCW.

[crimethink]

It's really just registering yourself as a gun owner, something all those NICs background checks attached to your name, do as well

There are still ways of avoiding a NICS check.

[mick silver]

take a look at page 3 of what 7th posted , if someone can copy that page post it ... post 82