Recommendation On Volunteering

[palani]

If you are in trouble with government chances are you only have yourself to blame. Somewhere along the line you volunteered into the trouble you got yourself into.



Cattle Rancher Bundy Volunteered

http://successforamerica.net/2014/04/12/cattle-rancher-bundy-volunteered/



When Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy thought the Bureau of Land Management was violating, or threatening to violate his Rights, he decided to start a court action to stop the BLM. Back in 1994 when this happened, Mr. Bundy voluntarily (but without realizing it) sprung the government’s trap and ensnared himself in a tangled web that led to confrontation in the Nevada desert about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

More than 200 federal agents were confronted by hundreds of angry citizens who feel the government is wrong and demanded the agents “Go Home.” The federal agents were eventually ordered to stand-down and back-off in order to avoid a situation that could easily turn violent. The protesting citizens know there is something wrong with what the BLM and other federal agents are doing, but they don’t understand how the U.S. District Court could allow the federal government to round-up his cattle and sell them at auction.

Clive Bundy, and his family, all owners of the ranch and cattle are repeatedly named as Defendants in the federal court actions. But it didn’t start that way. In 1994 Mr. Bundy believed his Rights were threatened by the BLM and he, with some others, filed a lawsuit in Federal Court. Bundy is listed as the Plaintiff and the federal government, Janet Reno, Bruce Babbitt and others are listed as the Defendants in the initial court action.

Apparently the BLM used the same trick that has been used on so many American citizens in other types of cases. They posted warnings that might be perceived as a “threat” but were not a real threat, similar to the community redevelopment (urban renewal) case of Kelo v New London. That scam was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States. Ms. Kelo thought her property was being threatened with condemnation and started the action in court – she volunteered!

As I explain in my book “Don’t Volunteer…”, the government’s trick is to stampede a citizen to file an action in the courts when their Rights have not really been threatened. When the citizen instigates the litigation they submit the question to the court and, if unable to show a valid threat, the court takes the question and can rule for what it perceives to be “the public good.” In this particular case, the questionable position of “public good” was the protection of the “endangered” desert tortoise.

In the initial Bundy case the court ruled that the Plaintiff (Bundy) must remove his cattle from public lands and pay the Defendant (federal government) $45.90 per day for each day the cattle remain trespassing on the land, plus other damages. In all subsequent federal court actions, Mr. Bundy was named as the Defendant as the BLM (Plaintiff) and others requested injunctions from the court to enforce the previous rulings of the court.

It is not a new or unique trick the government plays on citizens. It happens repeatedly in various forms around the nation!

My personal sympathies are with Clive Bundy, his family and supporters, and although they feel they have won a battle for citizen rights, and recovered the cattle, they have only won a battle, not the war! U.S. Senator Harry Reid publicly stated, after the withdrawal of federal agents, that the fight isn’t over.

Because the court action was started by Bundy and others, they are now on the losing end of the legal battle. Because of the court ruling, the federal government now wants almost $1-Million in “damages”. At almost $50 a day for 18 years, plus interest, the fines add up.

It might be best if Mr. Bundy and his supporters realize this, make a deal to settle – then be prepared to fight another battle without “volunteering” for the government’s tricks and version of public good!

[Hitch]

Good article, but I wasn't expecting it based upon the title of this thread.

My recommendation for volunteering, is volunteer with your local fire department. 75% of firemen are volunteers. I guarantee you'll meet some awesome folks who become family to you, you'll get in great shape, you'll help people and that's rewarding, and you get to fight fire.

[palani]

volunteer with your local fire department.

Volunteering for any type of community service is great. Volunteering to become a target because you think the government is wrong is not a world class idea unless you go into it fully prepared. By that I mean family taken care of and no assets on the line. Then you had best not be too concerned about investing years of time in the benefit they provide called a GRAY BAR HOTEL.

Court actions create JOINDER. Where you might not have been subject to statutes prior to engaging in a court action there is no doubt you are subject after you engage in the action.

[crimethink]

Good article, but I wasn't expecting it based upon the title of this thread.

90% of what palani posts is pure sophistry. Meaningless in the real world.

[Hitch]

90% of what palani posts is pure sophistry. Meaningless in the real world.

This thread is meaningful.

[crimethink]

This thread is meaningful.

Only your post. The OP is trying to blame the Bundy family for being victims of the Federal regime.

[Hitch]

Only your post. The OP is trying to blame the Bundy family for being victims of the Federal regime.

I interpreted this thread as the OP warning us, that we will all be blamed for "volunteering" like the Bundy family.

The Bundy family really are heros for our rights. However, they "volunteered" to sacrificed their livelyhood for our greater good.

Didn't you make a post recently about the Patriots who signed the Declaration of Independance...and what happened to them?!?

Same thing here, imo.

[palani]

The OP is trying to blame the Bundy family for being victims of the Federal regime.

Only pointing out mistakes that were made or might have been made (as I know of no facts personally).

What the underlying principle involved is incorporates human relations. When you attack a government agency or an agent their reaction is to counterattack. It just turns out that they are much much better at it than you might ever be. In addition they hold the high ground; i.e., they execute public policy. Not only that but their continuing advancement in the government hierarchy doesn't permit them to be considerate of those attacking them.

Then compounding the problem are those who think a constitutional republic is buried there somewhere and all you have to do to re-activate it is to file a suit.

[7th trump]

90% of what palani posts is pure sophistry. Meaningless in the real world.

I'm going with close to 95% sophistry.
Glad I'm not the only one who sees through his bullshit word salad artistry.

I will give Palani some kudo's though....hes on occasion posted good articles....far and few in between. He just needs to lay off the hooch when talking law and politics and actually get into the statutes to fully understand them.

[7th trump]

Only pointing out mistakes that were made or might have been made (as I know of no facts personally).

What the underlying principle involved is incorporates human relations. When you attack a government agency or an agent their reaction is to counterattack. It just turns out that they are much much better at it than you might ever be. In addition they hold the high ground; i.e., they execute public policy. Not only that but their continuing advancement in the government hierarchy doesn't permit them to be considerate of those attacking them.

Then compounding the problem are those who think a constitutional republic is buried there somewhere and all you have to do to re-activate it is to file a suit.

Ohhh....I get it..."facts" aren't evil deeds when you see fit to use that word. Only when I call you out and show you your errors are "facts" evil deeds.

You're a hoot palani!

[palani]

He just needs ,,, to get into the statutes to fully understand them.

Statutes are for government agents and not man. Granted there are instances where statutes display reason and a wise man would be instructed by them but they fall short of law. In fact a bankrupt government is prohibited from executing any law at all so they opt to execute 'public policy'.

[7th trump]

Statutes are for government agents and not man. Granted there are instances where statutes display reason and a wise man would be instructed by them but they fall short of law. In fact a bankrupt government is prohibited from executing any law at all so they opt to execute 'public policy'.

Statutes aren't public policy.
The US Constitution is codified in statutory form.....is that public policy as well?

Also show me where a bankrupt government " is prohibited from executing any law at all"........I can show you the federal government is still executing the US constitution each and every day.

Its noted....your whole post is.............100% projection.....translated your post is 100% based on your personal opinion. An opinion not worth a damn thing.

[palani]

Statutes aren't public policy. What then? Offers to contract?

The US Constitution is codified in statutory form.....is that public policy as well? If your ancestor planted an apple tree are you obligated to gather the fruit?


Also show me where a bankrupt government " is prohibited from executing any law at all". You might take a look at Zimbabwe to start.


.I can show you the federal government is still executing the US constitution each and every day. Have you discussed this with Mr Bundy?


Its noted....your whole post is.............100% projection.....translated your post is 100% based on your personal opinion. An opinion not worth a damn thing. The OP is an article. That is what is discussed here. All posts from all members (including yours) are opinion. Did you have a point?

[7th trump]

What then? Offers to contract?
If your ancestor planted an apple tree are you obligated to gather the fruit?

You might take a look at Zimbabwe to start.

Have you discussed this with Mr Bundy?

The OP is an article. That is what is discussed here. All posts from all members (including yours) are opinion. Did you have a point?

What makes you believe everything has to be a contract?
Been reading conspiracy theories again palani?...seems just about everything you say is based on a conspiracy of one flavor or another.

Last I knew the Constitution was a guarantee of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....nothing there a bout contracting?
What part of the US constitution don't you get....or over get?

All the rest is just deflection and a sad attempt at humor.

[Publico]

When in court on criminal charges never volunteer to let the court appoint an attorney to represent you and never represent yourself. If you go unrepresented in court you walk out of court a free man or woman even if convicted.

[crimethink]

When in court on criminal charges never volunteer to let the court appoint an attorney to represent you and never represent yourself. If you go unrepresented in court you walk out of court a free man or woman even if convicted.

If you refuse (to agree or even to answer), they declare you "incompetent" and appoint a Guardian ad Litem.

That's not an encouragement to cooperate with them, but just a reality check.

[palani]

What makes you believe everything has to be a contract?
Because accepting or rejecting a contract is where free will is established.


Been reading conspiracy theories again
Ever read a statute you didn't adore, 7th?


Last I knew the Constitution was a guarantee of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.....nothing there a bout contracting? Duty is derived from either of two methods: oath or contract. How can anyone or any group GUARANTEE anything without establishing a duty to actually do so? Now in the case of the constitution is this an oath or is this a contract? In actuality this document is a contract among members to establish a charitable trust for themselves and their posterity. The entire topic of constitution is about contract.



What part of the US constitution don't you get....or over get? As long as it in unenforced and operates in the land of fiction I don't choose to get any of it. When it comes to fictions I prefer mine in comic book form.
http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/chesterbody/1-comic2_it.jpg

[palani]

they declare you "incompetent" and appoint a Guardian ad Litem.

Are you responsible for anything 'they' do? That is as opposed to being agreeable and making yourself liable for things you have no knowledge of?

[7th trump]

Because accepting or rejecting a contract is where free will is established.


Ever read a statute you didn't adore, 7th?

Duty is derived from either of two methods: oath or contract. How can anyone or any group GUARANTEE anything without establishing a duty to actually do so? Now in the case of the constitution is this an oath or is this a contract? In actuality this document is a contract among members to establish a charitable trust for themselves and their posterity. The entire topic of constitution is about contract.


As long as it in unenforced and operates in the land of fiction I don't choose to get any of it. When it comes to fictions I prefer mine in comic book form.
http://www.virginiamemory.com/blogs/out_of_the_box/wp-content/blogs.dir/5/files/chesterbody/1-comic2_it.jpg

Really?
So you really dont have a factual answer to my question about every being a contract......you're gonna just pull this crap right out of your ass and feed us with it huh?
Bahahahahaha....!

Ohh ya...I read statutes all the time....some boring, some not so boring....but I'm not like you to make up a theory about them.....or muchless nurse along a conspiracy theory because I dont understand them.


Heres the definiton of constitution see if you see anything in this definition that says a constitution is a contract.

Constitution

The fundamental law, written or unwritten, that establishes the character of a government by defining the basic principles to which a society must conform; by describing the organization of the government and regulation, distribution, and limitations on the functions of different government departments; and by prescribing the extent and manner of the exercise of its sovereign powers.

A legislative charter by which a government or group derives its authority to act.

The concept of a constitution dates to the city-states of ancient Greece. The philosopher Aristotle (384–322 b.c.), in his work Politics, analyzed over 150 Greek constitutions. He described a constitution as creating the frame upon which the government and laws of a society are built:

When are you going to say anything truthful?

[palani]

Heres the definiton of constitution see if you see anything in this definition that says a constitution is a contract.

Consider this. Should you have been a black man in 1780 would the society formed by said constitution include you? When men are excluded from society then do they have any duty to maintain that same society? Where then does this duty to support society as defined by said constitution come from? Or is there no duty at all?

It's a private club. What makes you think you are a member?

[7th trump]

Consider this. Should you have been a black man in 1780 would the society formed by said constitution include you? When men are excluded from society then do they have any duty to maintain that same society? Where then does this duty to support society as defined by said constitution come from? Or is there no duty at all?

It's a private club. What makes you think you are a member?

Just what the fuck are you yapping about "duty" for?
"Duty" has nothing at all to do with society?
I don't hold an office with the public to have a "duty" to society or the public

I have to ask.....what do you do each day that's a "duty" to society?

I gotta hear this one.
Whats the chances of you taking "duty" completely out of context to prove your opinion of what ever it is you are confused with?
I think you just like "drama" and your day cant be complete without you imposing your self inflicted drama with everyone.

[palani]

Just what the fuck are you yapping about "duty" for?
Didn't ace reading comprehension in grade school, sport?

[7th trump]

Didn't ace reading comprehension in grade school, sport?

Well "duty" has multiple meanings.....which one and in what context are you referring?
Please tell us what you do everyday that's a "duty" that coexists with the US Constitution.

You brought "duty" up ...now explain what it is you are trying to convey....or simply shut up.

At best you're vague in what you say....I tend to think you do this on purpose so you cant be made into a fool. Its almost like you know you say crap that on the line of questionable and word it to keep everyone guessing.
Its like what Crimethink said.....your 95% yapping to sell your nonsense.

[palani]

You brought "duty" up ...now explain what it is you are trying to convey
My words are still posted. Have you bothered to read them?

[7th trump]

My words are still posted. Have you bothered to read them?

You're just playing games as usual.
You've been called out and...........................the usual word salad deflective non-answers!
Are you and hypertiger related?

Any wonder you don't get anywhere in the legal field?
Keep believing them there conspiracy theories palani.....you're a hoot!

A homeless guy living in the watershed who says he doesn't pay taxes, but his LLC pay the taxes for him.
Gee palani.....you ever thought that nobody can figure out your LLC gets its money from you to pay those taxes.
Bahahahahaha...!

[palani]

Any wonder you don't get anywhere in the legal field?

Was I TRYING to get anywhere in the legal field?

[7th trump]

Was I TRYING to get anywhere in the legal field?

See post #25

[palani]

See post #25

See post #26