Beware of the Mossy 590

[midnight rambler]

The Mossy 590 is subject to letting you down -


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdtV8NfhrK0

[EE_]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-TYFLu1XjU

[midnight rambler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-TYFLu1XjU

Definitely worth the extra expense.

[EE_]

Definitely worth the extra expense.

Love mine, wouldn't part with it. Don't need all that unnecessary racking of the slide.

Mine was produced in 1992 and it can be ghost loaded to carry an extra round.



For guns made since 1988 in the USA by Beretta USA, the date can be traced by the serial number. See: http://www.berettasupport.com/applicati ... ch_new.htm

The date codes chart apply only to guns made in Italy.

[midnight rambler]

For guns made since 1988 in the USA by Beretta USA, the date can be traced by the serial number. See: http://www.berettasupport.com/applicati ... ch_new.htm

The date codes chart apply only to guns made in Italy.

Actually on the Benellis that date code is totally separate from the serial number and found on the barrel, usually in a box.

[EE_]

Actually on the Benellis that date code is totally separate from the serial number and found on the barrel, usually in a box.

Yes, but I think only on Itallian made.

Like this box that shows AI
http://voodeauxphotography.smugmug.com/Hobbies/HK-Guns/IMG0695/1052242424_gWacX-L.jpg

[midnight rambler]

I'm pretty sure all Benellis (Benelli being owned by Beretta) have been made in Italy. Thru the '80s and into the '90s Heckler & Koch imported Benellis and had the H&K import stamps then Benelli took over the importation.

[midnight rambler]

Yes, but I think only on Itallian made.

Like this box that shows AI
http://voodeauxphotography.smugmug.com/Hobbies/HK-Guns/IMG0695/1052242424_gWacX-L.jpg

That doesn't look right since the S90M1 was not introduced until the late '80s and that date code seems to indicate '82 so I bet that is 'AT' which = '88

[EE_]

That doesn't look right since the S90M1 was not introduced until the late '80s and that date code seems to indicate '82 so I bet that is 'AT' which = '88

The M1 Super 90 is a shotgun of Italian origin. It was developed by Benelli in the mid 1980's for military and police use and is the first model in the Super 90 series. The design is a further evolution of the HK 512 tactical shotgun that was produced by Franchi in small quantities.

More info: http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=703
Benelli Armi S.p.A of Italy, founded by Giovanni Benelli, began design, development and production of firearms in 1967 out of it's headquarters in Urbino, Italy. Originally associated with production of motorcycles since 1911, the concert went on to become one of the most recognized foremost manufacturers of military and law enforcement shotguns anywhere in the world. Key to the success of Benelli shotguns was the in-house inertia-driven recoil system developed by engineer Bruno Civolani. In 2000 the firm was purchased by Italian competitor Beretta, itself founded in 1526, though the Benelli name was allowed to live on in new products such as the Benelli M1 Super 90" shotgun.

The Benelli Nova (pump action), M1 Super 90, and a customized M2 Field were used by Tom Knapp during his shooting exhibitions wherein he frequently shot down several hand-thrown clay targets while still in mid-air, setting a world record in October 2004 when he destroyed 10 such targets with 10 shots in 2.0 seconds, with all the targets still airborne.

[crimethink]

A bad firing pin is not an indictment of the entire 500/590 series.

Test it out good & thorough before you need to rely on it. That applies to every gun, no matter who makes it and/or its reputation.

I was expecting a lot more trouble based on Lt. Col. Hewitt's video title, something along the lines of unrepairable.

The 870 series has plenty of reported issues, too, including failure to extract/eject. Benelli is not immune, either.

[midnight rambler]

In between the HK512 and the S90M1 was the Benelli SL80, 121, and 121M1 (which was the 20" barrel with FL mag) and all were essentially the exact same gun in slightly different configurations. Benelli quit producing the SL80/121 and came out with the S90M1 in the late '80s. I used to have three 121M1s (one of which was a '79 import I acquired from Charlie Beckwith) however I sold them off when I realized that Benelli was no longer going to support them with replacement parts. The 121M1 was/is a superb piece.

[midnight rambler]

Benelli is not immune, either.

I know someone who has put over 12k rounds through his Benelli M4 with no issues. And he doesn't baby his M4.

I keep track of potential issues of several types of guns. The only issue I've heard of with the M4 is when someone is trying to do a mag dump as fast as they can pull the trigger and the hammer will follow the bcg home leaving one with a hammer down on a live round situation (the truth is this is a VERY rare occurrence as evidenced by all the people posting M4 mag dumps on jootube). It's the nature of the design of the M4 and not really an issue so long as one isn't trying as hard as possible to do the fastest possible rapid fire. Rapid fire like that is pretty fucking stupid anyway. Benelli shottys, both semi-auto and pump are as good as shottys get.

At least Benellis go BANG! every time you pull the trigger. lol

Since you're claiming that "Benellis are not immune" from failures, let's hear what ya got regarding the reliability of Benellis.

ETA: the S90M1, M3, and M2 shotguns CAN have an issue cycling IF one adds extra weight to it above what a fully loaded mag weighs since both are inertial operated guns. Also, if one isn't holding an inertia operated shotgun FIRMLY then it may not cycle. Additionally, Benellis shotguns sometimes won't cycle with those light field loads especially the WallyWorld special ammo until broken in very well (although my new M4 shucked out the WallyWorld cheap ass ammo just fine without any hiccups).

[BrewTech]

A bad firing pin is not an indictment of the entire 500/590 series.

Test it out good & thorough before you need to rely on it. That applies to every gun, no matter who makes it and/or its reputation.

I was expecting a lot more trouble based on Lt. Col. Hewitt's video title, something along the lines of unrepairable.

The 870 series has plenty of reported issues, too, including failure to extract/eject. Benelli is not immune, either.

I've experienced the mentioned FTE/E issues with the 870, but only when using lesser quality ammunition.

[crimethink]

I know someone who has put over 12k rounds through his Benelli M4 with no issues. And he doesn't baby his M4.

I keep track of potential issues of several types of guns. The only issue I've heard of with the M4 is when someone is trying to do a mag dump as fast as they can pull the trigger and the hammer will follow the bcg home leaving one with a hammer down on a live round situation (the truth is this is a VERY rare occurrence as evidenced by all the people posting M4 mag dumps on jootube). It's the nature of the design of the M4 and not really an issue so long as one isn't trying as hard as possible to do the fastest possible rapid fire. Rapid fire like that is pretty fucking stupid anyway. Benelli shottys, both semi-auto and pump are as good as shottys get.

Since you're claiming that "Benellis are not immune" from failures, let's hear what ya got regarding the reliability of Benellis.

It's easy enough to find on the Web. Just one of many: http://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/32793-New-Benellli-M4-Failure-to-Feed-and-Eject

(I'm sure you'll whine about the ammo being the problem, as any weapon you select is always "perfect")

Rather interesting that the "Israel" "Defense" Forces uses 500s and 970s, instead of making their own, like your favorite 5.56mm rifle. ;D

[crimethink]

I've experienced the mentioned FTE/E issues with the 870, but only when using lesser quality ammunition.

We've had ZERO problems with my 500 or my wife's 870. We use top-quality, factory-loaded US ammo. The only exception would be if a competent friend offered hand loads.

[midnight rambler]

It's easy enough to find on the Web. Just one of many: http://forums.benelliusa.com/showthread.php/32793-New-Benellli-M4-Failure-to-Feed-and-Eject

(I'm sure you'll whine about the ammo being the problem, as any weapon you select is always "perfect")


Well, it WAS an ammo problem and PROBABLY due to a lack of sufficient rounds to break it in BEFORE using the cheap ass ammo. AT LEAST IT WENT BANG! WHEN HE PULLED THE TRIGGER - unlike the Mossy. lol Everyone should be well versed in immediate action to clear a stovepipe or other common stoppage.

Posted by one of the long time Benelli forum members with mucho experience with the M4/M1014:


No stress. I've just very very very rarely seen or read or heard of a true issue with a properly run and fed benelli m4 after the 4 port barrels went away*. Some run lighter loads than others, but buckshot not running? So, I follow failures or reported failures I find very closely.

*Benelli has replaced (or will replace) all the 4 port barrels

Is THAT all ya got (regarding showing instances of failures with Benellis)?? Failure to cycle cheap ass ammo when new and not broken in??

[crimethink]

Is THAT all ya got (regarding showing instances of failures with Benellis)??

I visualize you fondling your "perfect" weapons, and chanting, "My Precious! My Precious!"

[midnight rambler]

I visualize you fondling your "perfect" weapons, and chanting, "My Precious! My Precious!"

I get the impression you've never actually been in a storm/on the two way range. I also get the impression you're incapable of thinking objectively, rather it would appear you think using your emotions.

There are two and only two guns that imo* are 99.5+% reliable under ALL conditions - a quality AK (e.g. Arsenal, Norinco, Polytech, Vepr, SA-85, Saiga, Krebs, any AK built by Mike at The Firing Line, etc.) or a G series FAL or SAR-48/4800 (FAL under license of FN, as those two FALs are really the only arsenal built metric FN FAL rifles available to us lowly civilians, although there ARE exceptions where there have been quality builds from DSA and others using StG58 parts kits and Imbel receivers - good luck finding a genuine imported Lithgow L1A1). The other 0.5% or more of the time should always be backed up by an extremely reliable sidearm. FWIW I sold off my G series FALs when I determined they were more liability than asset since they (the type 1 G series) ARE in reality machinegun receivers in a VERY grey area (can be rendered capable of fast forward in about a minute if one has the parts, and if one has any spare parts to speak of that *could* be considered constructive intent - IF the paint is scratched on the lower receiver from the 'S' position to the 'R' position THAT alone could cause one a big time BATF problem if they were to inspect it to see if it *ever* been "converted to fire full auto" [since the only way to make such a scratch in the finish is to drop in a FA selector and turn it to the 'R' position and it only takes ONE time doing that to scratch the finish and make it look suspect]).

With respect to shotguns it's very easy to short stroke a pump shotgun under stressfire ESPECIALLY if wounded and close to passing out (or having an arm injury which impedes one's use of the pump action). Yes, I have a pump or two, but having BTDT I *know* the shortcomings of a pump in a storm - short stroking can happen a whole lot easier than one can imagine. And short stroking *can* possibly cause a jam worse (esp. on the 870) than a FTE or FTF on a semi-auto. I have far more faith in a Rock Island M5 than any Mossy (or even the vaunted 870). Mossberg comes out with some of the absolute GOOFIEST shit, like their 'Chainsaw', 'Road Blocker', or 'Rolling Thunder' pump shotguns. Really?? It should be noted that no other gun manufacturer makes guns suitable for cartoons straight out of the box. lol With their product line heavily focused on PG only/stockless pump shotguns Mossberg promotes the concept that "with a shotgun just point in the general direction and you'll hit what you're shooting at" which is just plain stupid. Very few people can reliably and consistently hit a target shooting 'from the hip', not to mention shooting a PG without a stock is downright unpleasant and not something anyone would want to continue doing (I once put a PG only grip on a Winchester 1200 - a buddy and I took it out to shoot it, he shot it once and said, "Ouch! That's enough for me!" I also found it extremely unpleasant to shoot, not to mention the difficulty in actually hitting a target like that. I took it off the moment I got back home)

Sorry that you're butt-hurt over the Mossy failure. It is what it is - Mossy's premier pump action shotty is not to be counted on.

*I've had the good fortune to have known some very notable *seasoned* fellows (one of whom who literally wrote the definitive books on early 20th century belt fed machineguns) who have tons of experience under their belt, another of whom was 'the company's guy with the Contras and he had actual hands-on experience in an extended real life torture test of the major assault rifles of the mid-20th century in the jungles of C. America (the Contras were notoriously lazy and undisciplined and therefore their assault rifles were neglected and abused in the extreme) - these fellows instilled in me the good sense to watch out for failures in any particular gun design, and to avoid those which are problematic and to root out the causes on the others and deal with those problems as necessary.

[crimethink]

I get the impression you've never actually been in a storm/on the two way range. I also get the impression you're incapable of thinking objectively, rather it would appear you think using your emotions.


LOL.

Classic projection.




Sorry that you're butt-hurt over the Mossy failure.


LOL - no points due to being unable to come up with your own quip:

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?81320-BREAKING-NEWS-Paris-shooting-Twelve-people-killed-at-Charlie-Hebdo-office&p=752519&viewfull=1#post752519




It is what it is - Mossy's premier pump action shotty is not to be counted on.


This is complete bullshit, and you know it.




*I've had the good fortune to have known some very notable *seasoned* fellows...

I bet you were a Navy SEAL, too. :D