Dead Auto Battery?

[Glass]

My old car is still sitting in the garage. Since getting the new vehicle things have happened and I have not been able to run the car now and then to keep the charge up. It's been sitting 3 months.

I needed to get the car out of the garage so I can strip some gear out of it before I send it off to the wreckers. I can push it out and have done so before but I can't get the rear doors open because of the electrics. It would make life easier.

The battery is 18 months old. Its a regular car battery. Nothing special.

Battery is completely Dead. I have a fairly new battery charger. It will not charge the battery. It has charged this battery once before. It's clearly a smart charger.

I also have a basic hobbiest multi meter.

I hear that doing the Epsom salt thing does not work and may not be safe.

Other options I have looked at say get an old dumb charger which will allow over charging, then charge it for 1 month.

Looking for ideas on the best way to get a charge into it. Safely.

[Glass]

watched this one but I don't have any of the gear he talks about except a smart charger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x-JfckAt20

[Glass]

I can probably get a cheap battery for about $60. Shame not to recover this one seeing as it was 3 times that price. And I only need it to get the vehicle in and out of the garage a couple times + unlock the doors.

But lets do it for the knowledge yeah?

[palani]

Jumper cables? If need be just remove the old battery and run it entirely on the jumper to your other car.

[Glass]

yes good idea. by pass the smart charger which is probably blocking charge.

[Dogman]

Yea smart chargers sometimes suck, they need to see some set voltage on the battery before they start charging. Palani is right take the old battery out or use long enough jumper cables and jump the battery off from a good battery. At least a while, until the old battery shows enough voltage so the smart charger can take over.

This has happened to me before, I have two chargers, a smart one and a older crappy one that has a boost/jump setting. There are times that when the smart one does not charge, I boost the dead (o) volt with the old school charger enough to get the battery to have a voltage reading, then the smart charger can take over.

The smart charger I have has that safety feature that no current is sent if it does not detect voltage, so if the charger is plugged in and the wire clamps are touching (dead short) nothing will happen, and no fire risk. That feature sucks sometimes, the smart thing is the risk of overcharging the battery is low.

Good luck.

Edit: Having a good spare battery is sometimes good to have around, keep it charged (trickle) and it is there for you, If you have a small inverter with clamps its usefulness is better, if you ever have mains power outages, or need ac power in a remote area, runtime depends on the Amp/hours of the battery.

Just a thought.

[Glass]

yes a bit slow to seep in. I was watching these vids and people were jump starting and its like the thing just bangs into life again. So not a deeply flat battery then. And I'm thinking won't work here. But now I grasp what the guy was getting at with in the vid I posted. Use something that will charge regardless up to a level so you can get the smart charger to pick it up/detect it and top it off safely.

[Dogman]

Yes!

[Glass]

So the internet says that the dead battery must be in a vehicle and the negative cable earths to the dead car NOT the negative electrode on the battery. I can't position the dead vehicle to enable this configuration.

Can I pull the battery and just go +ve to +ve and -ve to -ve? Then crank the working vehicle?

[Dogman]

So the internet says that the dead battery must be in a vehicle and the negative cable earths to the dead car NOT the negative electrode on the battery. I can't position the dead vehicle to enable this configuration.

Can I pull the battery and just go +ve to +ve and -ve to -ve? Then crank the working vehicle? yes, has been done zillions of times.

[Glass]

ok Thanks guys. That seems to have done the trick. I gave it 20 minutes on the jumper leads, vehicle running. Now I have hooked up the charger - disconnected from vehicle first, and it seems happy to apply a charge now.

I actually bought it to work, because I don't have time to get this started at home and my jumper leads were here. I will see how much charge gets applied today. I'll take it back home and hook it up again if needed, and I expect it will take best part of a day to get the job done. I just need it to have some charge for saturday.

Seriously thinking about converting the garage into a brewery when I get the old car out of there. Gotten used to parking the pickup in the driveway now. Also the pickup eventually wont fit once I get a bullbar on there. Not sure how long that will be though. Few things in front of the queue at the moment.

[palani]

Seriously thinking about converting the garage into a brewery when I get the old car out of there.

You might just take the high road ... keep the car but change its PURPOSE.

http://www.greenecoservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/car-bar.jpg

When was the last time you noticed a VW bus low-rider?

[Glass]

You might just take the high road ... keep the car but change its PURPOSE.

http://www.greenecoservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/car-bar.jpg

When was the last time you noticed a VW bus low-rider?

If only it was as classy a car as that one. It's a mitsubishi sedan, its basically a beater. They are often called a "bits are missing". I can't think of a single part worth salvaging. Maybe the tow bar and hitch?

[steyr_m]

If a car battery goes below 9.6 V, and you don't get a charge on it quickly, it's toast. Don't even bother....

[palani]

It's a mitsubishi sedan, its basically a beater.
Those are the kind you want to modify. Anyone might take a high end car and emphasize the classy features. A better trick is to take a low end car and make it into something everyone wants.

Car companies do this all the time. Generally the trick involves a well endowed sales girl.

[Glass]

A better trick is to take a low end car and make it into something everyone wants.

Have you heard about putting lipstick on a pig?

[steyr_m]

It has to do with the doping of the lead. They add other elements [I forget already which ones -- don't use the info much at work] to make the battery plates easier to work with. My aircraft batteries use pure lead and will sit at 6V for a week and will charge up to a solid 25.7 V when full-cycled.

[mick silver]

jump it in the car so it can charge there

[Dogman]

It has to do with the doping of the lead. They add other elements [I forget already which ones -- don't use the info much at work] to make the battery plates easier to work with. My aircraft batteries use pure lead and will sit at 6V for a week and will charge up to a solid 25.7 V when full-cycled.

The old style battery's non maintenance free types were/are more forgiving to deep discharge, have to agree for most modern lead acid battery's if you run them flat you have seriously cut their life span/usefulness.

[Glass]

I could not jump it in the car because I dont' have leads to run that far into the garage.

I had it on charge all night. Was still showing as charging this morning. I disconnected it for today. I can't seem to find either of my multi meters to check the current charge.

All I need is enough charge so I can fire it up and back it out of the garage and also get the back doors open as they are both locked. I can push it out a small bit if need be. Done' that a couple times already, to get the bonnet up and the battery out. Then I can strip the last of my gear out of there. Then it's a call the car scrappers. Hopefully they can come and drag it out.

[Dogman]

I could not jump it in the car because I dont' have leads to run that far into the garage.

I had it on charge all night. Was still showing as charging this morning. I disconnected it for today. I can't seem to find either of my multi meters to check the current charge.

All I need is enough charge so I can fire it up and back it out of the garage and also get the back doors open as they are both locked. I can push it out a small bit if need be. Done' that a couple times already, to get the bonnet up and the battery out. Then I can strip the last of my gear out of there. Then it's a call the car scrappers. Hopefully they can come and drag it out.

Biggest enemy to battery's when charging is letting them get too hot and boiling dry, at least now you do have a chance of cranking it. Heat is a enemy of battery's.

Question, how long has it been sitting and last ran?

Not years I hope!

[Glass]

about 3 months.

yes I was worried about it building up gas or something while being charged. We will give it a crank tomorrow and see whats what.

[Hitch]

Glass, in this link is a chart that shows based upon the voltage your battery holds (without anything drawing on it), and it's percentage of charge. A good rule of thumb is a fully charged battery, when disconnected from a charger, should settling in at around 12.8 volts, fully charged. If your battery is fully charged and loses voltage without anything pulling on it, you've got a bad battery.

http://www.energymatters.com.au/components/battery-voltage-discharge/

[Glass]

Thanks Hitch. I need to find my multi meters. I expect they will be where I left them last time when I get home tonight. They were no where to be seen this morning so I thought they might have been at work but no. We will see what it's reading at.

I'm not expecting this battery to come back very far in voltage.

I'd pull the pickups battery and plug in but it's nearly twice the size and won't fit.

[Dogman]

Thanks Hitch. I need to find my multi meters. I expect they will be where I left them last time when I get home tonight. They were no where to be seen this morning so I thought they might have been at work but no. We will see what it's reading at.

I'm not expecting this battery to come back very far in voltage.

I'd pull the pickups battery and plug in but it's nearly twice the size and won't fit. That is why jumper cables are your friend and a brick or plank of wood for the battery to sit on. But the bricks and wood are only to keep a battery from discharging, since it is temporary they are not needed, unless you want to store a battery long term, placing directly on the ground or concrete can cause discharge over the long term. If needed pull the other battery and place close to the car and then jump the clunker (your words sorta).

LoL!

[palani]

Don't try this:


One day I went to the supermarket with my wife. It was 1956, and cars with automatic transmission were new on the market, and not very common. When we were ready to leave, we found that the battery in our car had gone dead.

Seeing an old man in the car parked next to us, I asked him if he had battery jumper cables, and if he could give me a jump start. The old man explained that the car he was in was not his, but was his son's new Buick. He did not have jumper cables either, so he suggested that he give my car a push to get it started. I told him that my car had an automatic transmission, so he would have to get the car moving at about 30 miles per hour before my engine would turn over.

The old man backed out of the parking lot, and lined up behind my car. Then he backed up. He backed up more. He KEPT backing up. I was wondering what the heck he was doing? Finally, he stopped, and started accelerating forward.

Then, I figured it out. He thought that HE had to be going 30 miles per hour! Too late. BANG. He hit my rear bumper and smashed in the grill of his son's brand new car.

[Dogman]

Don't try this:
LoL

At least back when, cars used real metal not like todays models that seem to be built out of 'ONE' beer can and if you lean on it you will dent it.

Also back when , bumpers worked! and were not just decorations.

[Hitch]

Also back when , bumpers worked! and were not just decorations.

Or, you backed up into a parking spot on a slope. My old ford ranger in college I did that for months. Backed in. Looked around when leaving and let gravity get the ol girl up to speed, and pop that clutch!

[Dogman]

Or, you backed up into a parking spot on a slope. My old ford ranger in college I did that for months. Backed in. Looked around when leaving and let gravity get the ol girl up to speed, and pop that clutch! Also had a beater when younger, and seems I was broke all the time, standard trany so any slope to park on was prime Territory.

Gravity was a friend!

But I am completely baffled on your response to my quote you made?

Carry on, situation is normal its all insane.

(My take on things) Grin!

;)

[Hitch]

But I am completely baffled on your response to my quote you made?

My apologies my friend, I'm running a major lack of sleep at the moment. I'm sure I ain't thinking the clearest. Trying to unwind after the job, funny how this forum tends to do that for me. I will be 100% tomorrow, I promise.

[Glass]

Or, you backed up into a parking spot on a slope. My old ford ranger in college I did that for months. Backed in. Looked around when leaving and let gravity get the ol girl up to speed, and pop that clutch!

we always parked our farm trucks pointing down the hill.

[Glass]

6.38 volts on the meter. It was back where it wasn't this morning. needed a new battery though.

At least one of the cells needs more fluid. Should have been the first thing checked. I checked 3 of the 6 cells. got side tracked. will sort tomorrow. Won't be enough to fire it but should get the doors open.

[Glass]

gave up on the battery. I topped up 2 cell that were low. When I hooked up the charger it didn't even want to come on, let alone charge when hooked up to the battery. Disconnecting it and doing a bit of a reset and the charger came back on but no dice when hooked to the battery. So that indicated a short to me, maybe reversed the polarity of affected cells. Anyway I don't try and force the issue with electric. If electric decides it is not going to work for me then we move on.

I managed to get the car stripped out in a few hours of crawling around and it's ready to haul away. Hope to get it out of there this week.

[steyr_m]

When I hooked up the charger it didn't even want to come on, let alone charge when hooked up to the battery. Disconnecting it and doing a bit of a reset and the charger came back on but no dice when hooked to the battery.

Not trying to come across as "I told ya so" -- but I predicted that awhile ago.

[Glass]

Not trying to come across as "I told ya so" -- but I predicted that awhile ago.

when I was watching the YT's most of the comments were, the battery ain't coming back but it might come back some. And I didn't want to save it, just wanted to get the doors open. Anyway I was not expecting much.

I could dick around with trying to swing the polarity back but I don't have the time.

Still was hoping it could be a thread of tips for some SHTF knowledge. Didn't seem to work out that way though. No mind.

[steyr_m]

Still was hoping it could be a thread of tips for some SHTF knowledge. Didn't seem to work out that way though. No mind.

Well, there really isn't much to say about shtf knowledge other than don't let your lead/acid battery deplete below 11 V. Do a full-cycle if sitting too long [like a year] by loading the battery for an hour at about its amp-hour rating and immediately recharging.

A person-powered charging system [like using an alternator being rigged to a bicycle] may be for another post...

[Glass]

Well, there really isn't much to say about shtf knowledge other than don't let your lead/acid battery deplete below 11 V. Do a full-cycle if sitting too long [like a year] by loading the battery for an hour at about its amp-hour rating and immediately recharging.

A person-powered charging system [like using an alternator being rigged to a bicycle] may be for another post...

This was suggested on a few YT videos as a way to shift the cells that had changed polarity back to what it should be. Put a high load to it and then recharge straight away. Anyway, the old car is gone this morning.

[steyr_m]

Put a high load to it and then recharge straight away.

Load it according to it's amp-hour rating for an hour. If you're above ~10v -- you're good. Then re-charge via constant potential.

[Dogman]

Load it according to it's amp-hour rating for an hour. If you're above ~10v -- you're good. Then re-charge via constant potential.
Have used light bulbs strung together to act as a load bank in the day.

[steyr_m]

Have used light bulbs strung together to act as a load bank in the day.

I've seen that done before, and will work fine for the home guy who want to cycle their batteries.

The load-tester/charger I have at work is quite nice... Wish I had one for home.