View Full Version : Greek 'barbaric' healthcare cuts, Merkel ready to discuss Greece exit
singular_me
15th June 2015, 02:22 PM
think it is going to take a few more months for Greece to exit, well it all depends on the pre-agreed script... but when that happens, other EU nations will want to follow suit... then bu-bye euro... crash...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NieDK4c5wns
Babies held hostage for medical fees, porters as paramedics, £19 out of every £20 cut: A searing despatch from Athens's blood-soaked hospitals that shows why Greece is literally dying to leave the Euro
Greece is beleaguered by crippling EU debt repayments after its bailout
Healthcare system spends half the £13million it spent just five years ago
No beds in hospitals, patients told to bring own sheets, faulty ambulances
Issues so bad that Angela Merkel said to be ready to discuss Greek exit
By Ian Birrell In Athens For The Mail On Sunday
Published: 15:42 EST, 13 June 2015
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3123060/Babies-held-hostage-medical-fees-porters-paramedics-19-20-cut-searing-despatch-Athens-s-blood-soaked-hospitals-shows-Greece-literally-dying-leave-Euro.html#ixzz3dAErDYz3
GREECE/EU DEFAULT AS A MOVIE TRAILER... VERY GOOD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DYbAhpYbvc
Horn
15th June 2015, 02:47 PM
Either that or all nations of Europe will become sadistic fascist style states, not unlike Greece.
singular_me
16th June 2015, 12:24 PM
for those who havent followed the "greece threads" of mine, tsipras will welcome russian loans if necessary
------------------
Greece accuses Europe of plotting regime change as creditors draw up ultimatum
Tuesday 16th June 2015
‘Greek premier Alexis Tsipras has accused Europe’s creditor powers of trying to subvert Greece’s elected government after five years of “pillaging”, warning in solemn terms that his country will defend its sovereign dignity whatever the consequences.
The defiant stand came as the European Commission lashed out at the Greeks and warned that the country would collapse into a “state of emergency” unless there is a deal to avert a financial crash.
Germany’s EU Commissioner Guenther Oettinger said the creditor powers must draw up urgent plans to cope with social unrest in Greece and a break-down of energy supplies and medicine as soon as July.’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11676867/Greece-accuses-Europe-of-plotting-regime-change-as-creditors-draw-up-ultimatum.html
Horn
16th June 2015, 12:44 PM
Sounds like a bunch of dogs wrestling over tablescraps...
Glass
17th June 2015, 02:07 PM
Big headline, probably should have own thread.
Greek Debt Committee Just Declared All Debt To The Troika "Illegal, Illegitimate, And Odious"
I think this is very interesting, not just for the countries that were either sold pups/illegal/fraudulent/deceptive of loans and bonds, either to get into the EU in the first place or once in.
Greece did a lot of debt restructuring with "help" from the mega banks.
It is also very interesting for countries who do not have that problem but may have backstopped or bailed out big banks in their country. All the big banks in a country, any country are subsidiaries of the big boys. Those arrangements might be Illegal, Illegitimate, And Odious as well. And not just in the EU.
Greek Debt Committee Just Declared All Debt To The Troika "Illegal, Illegitimate, And Odious"
It was in April when we got a stark (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-08/odious-debt-has-finally-arrived-greece-write-illegal-debt)reminder of a post we first penned in April of 2011, describing Odious Debt (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/odious-debt-definition), and why we thought sooner or later this legal term would become applicable for Greece, because two months ago Greek Zoi Konstantopoulou (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoi_Konstantopoulou), speaker of the Greek parliament and a SYRIZA member, said she had established (http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/04/08/greece-parliament-video-greek-debt-check-it-erase-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)a new "Truth Committee on Public Debt" whose purposes was to "investigate how much of the debt is “illegal” with a view to writing it off."
Moments ago, this committee released its preliminary findings, and here is the conclusion from the full report presented below:
All the evidence we present in this report shows that Greece not only does not have the ability to pay this debt, but also should not pay this debt first and foremost because the debt emerging from the Troika (http://cadtm.org/Troika,766)’s arrangements is a direct infringement on the fundamental human rights of the residents of Greece. Hence, we came to the conclusion that Greece should not pay this debt because it is illegal, illegitimate, and odious.
As we predicted over four years ago, Greece has effectively just declared that it will no longer have to default on its IMF (or any other debt - note that the dreaded "Troika" word finally makes an appearance after it was officially banned) simply because that debt was not legal to begin with, i.e. it was "odious."
If so, this has just thrown a very unique wrench in the spokes of not only the Greek debt negotiations, but all other peripheral European nations' Greek negotiations, who will promptly demand that their debt be, likewise, declared odious, and made null and void, thus washing their hands of servicing it again.
And another question: when Greece says the debt was illegal and it no longer has to make the June 30 payment, what will be the Troika's response: confiscate Greek assets a la Argentina, declare involutnary default, sue it in the Hague?
Good luck.
From the full just released report by the Hellenic Parliament commission: (http://www.hellenicparliament.gr/Enimerosi/Grafeio-Typou/Deltia-Typou/?press=abd173dc-82dd-4207-a927-a4ba00e245e0)
Hellenic Parliament’s Debt Truth Committee Preliminary Findings - Executive Summary of the report
In June 2015 Greece stands at a crossroad of choosing between furthering the failed macroeconomic adjustment programmes imposed by the creditors or making a real change to break the chains of debt. Five years since the economic adjustment programmes began, the country remains deeply cemented in an economic, social, democratic and ecological crisis. The black box of debt has remained closed, and until now no authority, Greek or international, has sought to bring to light the truth about how and why Greece was subjected to the Troika (http://cadtm.org/Troika,766) regime. The debt, in whose name nothing has been spared, remains the rule through which neoliberal adjustment is imposed, and the deepest and longest recession experienced in Europe during peacetime.
There is an immediate need and social responsibility to address a range of legal, social and economic issues that demand proper consideration. In response, the Hellenic Parliament established the Truth Committee on Public Debt in April 2015, mandating the investigation into the creation and growth of public debt, the way and reasons for which debt was contracted, and the impact that the conditionalities attached to the loans have had on the economy and the population. The Truth Committee has a mandate to raise awareness of issues pertaining to the Greek debt, both domestically and internationally, and to formulate arguments and options concerning the cancellation of the debt.
The research of the Committee presented in this preliminary report sheds light on the fact that the entire adjustment programme, to which Greece has been subjugated, was and remains a politically orientated programme. The technical exercise surrounding macroeconomic variables and debt projections, figures directly relating to people’s lives and livelihoods, has enabled discussions around the debt to remain at a technical level mainly revolving around the argument that the policies imposed on Greece will improve its capacity to pay the debt back. The facts presented in this report challenge this argument.
All the evidence we present in this report shows that Greece not only does not have the ability to pay this debt, but also should not pay this debt first and foremost because the debt emerging from the Troika (http://cadtm.org/Troika,766)’s arrangements is a direct infringement on the fundamental human rights of the residents of Greece. Hence, we came to the conclusion that Greece should not pay this debt because it is illegal, illegitimate, and odious.
It has also come to the understanding of the Committee that the unsustainability of the Greek public debt was evident from the outset to the international creditors, the Greek authorities, and the corporate media. Yet, the Greek authorities, together with some other governments in the EU, conspired against the restructuring of public debt in 2010 in order to protect financial institutions. The corporate media hid the truth from the public by depicting a situation in which the bailout was argued to benefit Greece, whilst spinning a narrative intended to portray the population as deservers of their own wrongdoings.
Bailout funds provided in both programmes of 2010 and 2012 have been externally managed through complicated schemes, preventing any fiscal autonomy. The use of the bailout money is strictly dictated by the creditors, and so, it is revealing that less than 10% of these funds have been destined to the government’s current expenditure.
This preliminary report presents a primary mapping out of the key problems and issues associated with the public debt, and notes key legal violations associated with the contracting of the debt; it also traces out the legal foundations, on which unilateral suspension of the debt payments can be based. The findings are presented in nine chapters structured as follows:
Chapter 1, Debt before the Troika, analyses the growth of the Greek public debt since the 1980s. It concludes that the increase in debt was not due to excessive public spending, which in fact remained lower than the public spending of other Eurozone countries, but rather due to the payment of extremely high rates of interest (http://cadtm.org/Interest) to creditors, excessive and unjustified military spending, loss of tax revenues due to illicit capital outflows, state recapitalization (http://cadtm.org/Recapitalization) of private banks, and the international imbalances created via the flaws in the design of the Monetary Union itself.
Adopting the euro led to a drastic increase of private debt in Greece to which major European private banks as well as the Greek banks were exposed. A growing banking crisis contributed to the Greek sovereign debt (http://cadtm.org/Sovereign-debt) crisis. George Papandreou’s government helped to present the elements of a banking crisis as a sovereign debt crisis in 2009 by emphasizing and boosting the public deficit and debt.
Chapter 2, Evolution of Greek public debt during 2010-2015, concludes that the first loan agreement of 2010, aimed primarily to rescue the Greek and other European private banks, and to allow the banks to reduce their exposure to Greek government bonds.
Chapter 3, Greek public debt by creditor in 2015, presents the contentious nature of Greece’s current debt, delineating the loans’ key characteristics, which are further analysed in Chapter 8.
Chapter 4, Debt System Mechanism in Greece reveals the mechanisms devised by the agreements that were implemented since May 2010. They created a substantial amount of new debt to bilateral creditors and the European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF), whilst generating abusive costs thus deepening the crisis further. The mechanisms disclose how the majority of borrowed funds were transferred directly to financial institutions. Rather than benefitting Greece, they have accelerated the privatization process, through the use of financial instruments (http://cadtm.org/Financial-instruments).
Chapter 5, Conditionalities against sustainability, presents how the creditors imposed intrusive conditionalities attached to the loan agreements, which led directly to the economic unviability and unsustainability of debt. These conditionalities, on which the creditors still insist, have not only contributed to lower GDP (http://cadtm.org/Gross-Domestic-Product-GDP) as well as higher public borrowing, hence a higher public debt/GDP making Greece’s debt more unsustainable, but also engineered dramatic changes in the society, and caused a humanitarian crisis. The Greek public debt can be considered as totally unsustainable at present.
Chapter 6, Impact of the “bailout programmes” on human rights, concludes that the measures implemented under the “bailout programmes” have directly affected living conditions of the people and violated human rights, which Greece and its partners are obliged to respect, protect and promote under domestic, regional and international law. The drastic adjustments, imposed on the Greek economy and society as a whole, have brought about a rapid deterioration of living standards, and remain incompatible with social justice, social cohesion, democracy and human rights.
Chapter 7, Legal issues surrounding the MOU and Loan Agreements, argues there has been a breach of human rights obligations on the part of Greece itself and the lenders, that is the Euro Area (Lender) Member States, the European Commission, the European Central Bank (http://cadtm.org/Central-Bank), and theInternational Monetary Fund (http://cadtm.org/IMF-International-Monetary-Fund,1114), who imposed these measures on Greece. All these actors failed to assess the human rights violations as an outcome of the policies they obliged Greece to pursue, and also directly violated the Greek constitution by....
More of story @ Zerohedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-17/greek-debt-committee-just-declared-all-debt-illegal-illegitimate-and-odious)
Serpo
17th June 2015, 02:18 PM
Greece still has its gold.............when the tables turn Greece will be fine.........
Serpo
17th June 2015, 02:20 PM
Greece's debt.........
Odious
odious
ˈəʊdɪəs/
adjective
adjective: odious
extremely unpleasant; repulsive.
"a pretty odious character"
synonyms:
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(https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+abominable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDAQ_SowAA), monstrous (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+monstrous&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDEQ_SowAA), appalling (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+appalling&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDIQ_SowAA), reprehensible (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+reprehensible&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDMQ_SowAA), deplorable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+deplorable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDQQ_SowAA), insufferable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+insufferable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDUQ_SowAA), intolerable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+intolerable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDYQ_SowAA), unacceptable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+unacceptable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDcQ_SowAA), despicable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+despicable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDgQ_SowAA), contemptible (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+contemptible&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDkQ_SowAA), beyond the pale, unspeakable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+unspeakable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDoQ_SowAA), poisonous (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+poisonous&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDsQ_SowAA), noxious (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+noxious&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CDwQ_SowAA), obscene (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+obscene&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CD0Q_SowAA), base (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+base&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CD4Q_SowAA), hideous (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+hideous&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CD8Q_SowAA), grisly (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+grisly&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEAQ_SowAA), gruesome (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+gruesome&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEEQ_SowAA), horrendous (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+horrendous&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEIQ_SowAA), heinous (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+heinous&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEMQ_SowAA), atrocious (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+atrocious&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEQQ_SowAA), awful (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+awful&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEUQ_SowAA), terrible (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+terrible&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEYQ_SowAA), dreadful (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+dreadful&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEcQ_SowAA), frightful (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+frightful&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEgQ_SowAA), obnoxious (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+obnoxious&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEkQ_SowAA), unsavoury (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+unsavoury&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEoQ_SowAA), unpalatable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+unpalatable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEsQ_SowAA), unpleasant (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+unpleasant&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CEwQ_SowAA), disagreeable (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+disagreeable&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CE0Q_SowAA), nasty (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+nasty&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CE4Q_SowAA), distasteful (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+distasteful&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CE8Q_SowAA), dislikeable, off-putting (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+off-putting&sa=X&ei=U9aBVbqCDZDg8AWDubPgDw&ved=0CFAQ_SowAA), displeasing; More
a great descriptive word for bank debt...............;D
singular_me
17th June 2015, 02:28 PM
is greece chosen to be the first domino of the world economic collapse???
little hard to believe that it only could be only a few months away... unless greece borrows from russia
--------------------------------
‘Lehman Weekend’ Looms For Greece As Europe Readies ‘Emergency’ Sunday Meeting
Wednesday 17th June 2015
‘Last week, Greek PM Alexis Tsipras submitted two three-page proposals that were ostensibly designed to close the gap with creditors. EU officials were incredulous, calling the drafts “not serious.”
Tsipras had effectively resubmitted Greece’s previous proposal (i.e. a proposal that did not include concessions on a VAT hike or pension cuts) only this time, he included a second document that outlined how Athens hoped to tap leftover bank recap funds from the EFSF and bailout money from the ESM. Greece took that same proposal to Brussels over the weekend and it didn’t fly there either, leaving Europe to wonder just how far Tsipras was willing to go with the brinksmanship.
The problem is simple and it’s been outlined in these pages extensively. The game of chicken can theoretically go on at the political level for some time. That’s because the bundled IMF payment isn’t due for another two weeks and even if it were missed, Christine Lagarde has quite a bit of discretion as it relates to sending an official failure to pay notice to the IMF board and triggering cross acceleration rights for Greece’s other creditors. In other words, a formal default is a matter of politics and it can be put off for at least 30 days past the end of this month.
What cannot be controlled at the political level is what happens on the ground in Greece.’
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-16/lehman-weekend-looms-greece-europe-readies-emergency-sunday-meeting
Serpo
17th June 2015, 02:41 PM
Yes it can be stalled until the end of next month.............
singular_me
17th June 2015, 03:48 PM
IMF bears criminal responsibility for Greece economic crisis: Tsipras
Wednesday 17th June 2015
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/16/416156/IMF-Greece-Alexis-Tsipras-Syriza
IMF Report Admits IMF’s Obsession with Capitalism Is Killing Prosperity
Wednesday 17th June 2015
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/06/16/imf-report-admits-imfs-obsession-capitalism-killing-prosperity
http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/11401208_1131485156866598_1573086640404118876_n.jp g
singular_me
18th June 2015, 03:21 PM
Greek central bank warns of ‘uncontrollable crisis’
Thursday 18th June 2015
‘Ahead of today’s meeting of the euro zone’s finance ministers, the Bank of Greece warned that the country faces imminent economic collapse.
Months of talks between the Syriza-led government and its international creditors, the European Union (EU), European Central Bank (ECB) and International Monetary Fund (IMF), over the terms of an austerity programme broke down acrimoniously at the weekend. The talks, ongoing since February, centred on whether Greece would receive €7.2 billion from the institutions, if Syriza agreed to impose further cuts. On June 30, the existing programme expires, with Athens due to make a payment of €1.6 billion to the IMF.’
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/06/18/gree-j18.html
Horn
18th June 2015, 06:07 PM
Wonder if "further cuts" means turn over all your natural resource and electrical generation?
Doesn't appear they can cut much further.
singular_me
19th June 2015, 08:01 AM
the global elite isnt yet ready for a total world wide blow up... russia using greece as a trojan horse?
--------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGq8C3SEay8
Read more: Russia ‘ready to consider bailing out Greece’
Russia says it is ready to consider offering loans to debt-stricken Greece, which is struggling to secure financial aid from its Western creditors.
“We will support any decision (on the Greek debt crisis) that is proposed by Greece and our European partners,” Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich said, local Russian media reported.
“The most important things for us are investment projects and trade with Greece. If financial support is needed, we will consider this question,” he said.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/19/416579/Russia-Greece-Arkady-Dvorkovich
Greek journalists were ‘coached’ by IMF to report with pro-austerity bias – ex-envoy
19th June 2015
http://rt.com/news/268303-greek-journalists-imf-bias/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
is greece chosen to be the first domino of the world economic collapse???
little hard to believe that it only could be only a few months away... unless greece borrows from russia
--------------------------------
‘Lehman Weekend’ Looms For Greece As Europe Readies ‘Emergency’ Sunday Meeting
Wednesday 17th June 2015
‘Last week, Greek PM Alexis Tsipras submitted two three-page proposals that were ostensibly designed to close the gap with creditors. EU officials were incredulous, calling the drafts “not serious.”
Tsipras had effectively resubmitted Greece’s previous proposal (i.e. a proposal that did not include concessions on a VAT hike or pension cuts) only this time, he included a second document that outlined how Athens hoped to tap leftover bank recap funds from the EFSF and bailout money from the ESM. Greece took that same proposal to Brussels over the weekend and it didn’t fly there either, leaving Europe to wonder just how far Tsipras was willing to go with the brinksmanship.
The problem is simple and it’s been outlined in these pages extensively. The game of chicken can theoretically go on at the political level for some time. That’s because the bundled IMF payment isn’t due for another two weeks and even if it were missed, Christine Lagarde has quite a bit of discretion as it relates to sending an official failure to pay notice to the IMF board and triggering cross acceleration rights for Greece’s other creditors. In other words, a formal default is a matter of politics and it can be put off for at least 30 days past the end of this month.
What cannot be controlled at the political level is what happens on the ground in Greece.’
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-16/lehman-weekend-looms-greece-europe-readies-emergency-sunday-meeting
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