Greece is Doomed

[madfranks]

Greece Debt Crisis: Finance Ministers Refuse Bailout Extension

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/greece-debt-crisis-lines-form-atms-pm-seeks-referendum-bailout-n383006

Greece cannot have an extension to its bailout program, euro zone finance ministers decided Saturday, as the country's financial future spiraled into uncertainty.

In a surprise television address in the early hours, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras proposed a national referendum on austerity demands from foreign creditors. But eurozone finance ministers later said the bailout program could not be extended until after the popular vote, and would expire on Tuesday as planned.

"It is the responsibility of the Greek government to meet its obligations, firstly with the (International Monetary Fund)," said Jeroen Dijsselbloem, chairman of the eurozone finance ministers. "It is a responsibility and it doesn't go away."

After failing to change the minds of international creditors at a meeting Saturday, Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis called the lack of a deal a "sad day for Europe."

With the debt crisis looming large, thousands of Greeks lined up to withdraw cash from ATMs Saturday after Tsipras' referendum proposal, fearing the country was closer than ever to defaulting on its massive loans.

"Our responsibility is for the future of our country. This responsibility obliges us to respond to the ultimatum through the sovereign will of the Greek people," Tsipras said.

The shock move drew anger in Brussels, where European leaders have been trying to reach a deal that will keep Greece in the euro currency zone.

"I am very negatively surprised by today's decisions by the Greek government," Dijsselbloem told reporters before the emergency meeting to discuss the crisis.

"This is a sad decision for Greece because it has closed the door on further talks," he said.

European leaders had offered to release billions of dollars in frozen aid if Greece accepted and implemented pension and tax reforms that are anathema to its leftist government, elected in January on a promise to end austerity.

If Athens defaults on repayments to the IMF, it will push Greece closer to being forced out of the euro, causing chaos for its economy and financial markets.

A default would not necessarily lead to Athens leaving the 19-nation euro currency area, but is expected to pave the way for it, worrying European leaders who fear it would undermine the principle that membership is irrevocable.

[madfranks]

European finance ministers say they will not extend the country's bail-out deal on June 30 - a decison which could trigger a banking collapse within days

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11702478/Greece-crisis-live-shock-referendum-throws-bail-out-future-into-chaos-ahead-of-crunch-Brussels-meeting.html

• Greece told they will have to default on June 30 as snap referendum called on July 5
• Finance ministers reconvent without Mr Varoufakis
• ECB to decide on Greek funding at meeting on Sunday
• Greek opposition attack vote as "unconstitutional"
• Greeks rush to withdraw money from ATMs

France's is Greece's only friend

Yanis Varoufakis saved some kind words for his "friend" and counterpart Michel Sapin of France today and according to reports, it was only France, of all the 18 member states, who called for the country to be given a better deal today.

Leaving today's eurogroup, Mr Sapin isn't giving up.

He says no-one wants Greece to leave - and will do everything it can to get a deal struck. It's "destiny" is in the euro, he says.

Grexit beckons

Mr Varoufakis said today there was no legal mechanism for a country to leave the euro and he's right. But there are plenty of disorderly mechanisms by which it can happen. A banking system without liquidity, being forced into issuing parallel currencies is one of them.

[madfranks]

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/27/8856297/greece-referendum-euro

Things seem to have reached Desperation O'Clock in Greece, where Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is now seeking a referendum as a way to avoid a choice between agreeing to the kind of austerity budget he promised to avoid and the Greek exit from the eurozone that he also promised to avoid. For the latest developments, you should probably check a dedicated financial news service like Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal, or the Financial Times. For a sophisticated and well-informed account of what Greece's European partners have done wrong, you should read Karl Whelan. For an analysis of the specifics of Tsipras' gambit, you should read Hugo Dixon.

But to understand the deeper causes of what's been going on since Tsipras' government swept to power in January, you really need to set the finance and economics aside and focus on the politics. Greece has been drawing dead this whole time, and the future outlook appears bleak for one simple reason — nobody else in Europe who holds power has any interest in making things anything other than painful for Greece.

1) Giving Greece a better deal would be a political disaster

Tsipras' fundamental miscalculation has been that he thought that by cloaking his specific requests for more lenient terms in the larger cause of anti-austerity politics, he could build a coalition of political support throughout Europe for his position. The reality was just the opposite. While politicians in Europe's creditor nations were naturally reluctant to grant Greece a better deal, politicians in Europe's debtor nations were even more opposed.

After all, if electing a bunch of far-left types to parliament so they can demand a better deal actually worked, then voters in Portugal and Spain and Italy and Ireland would take note of that fact. And the last thing the current crop of elected officials in Lisbon and Madrid and Rome and Dublin want is to all be turned out in favor of a bunch of far-left types.

2) Letting Greece default gracefully would be a disaster

Even if Greece's European partners weren't inclined to give Greece a better financial deal, they could have at least smoothed the path to default. A Greece that doesn't pay what it owes would be instantly cut off from credit markets and forced to run a very austere fiscal policy.

"It's in Europe's interest to make things as hard as possible for Greece"

Things could have been left at that. Instead, throughout the year, the European Central Bank has been saying that it will cut the Greek banking system off from emergency funding if Greece doesn't keep paying its debts. That means default will lead to the collapse of Greek banks, and the end of Greek membership in the euro.

That's a political decision the ECB isn't legally required to make. But politically it's the only possible decision. After all, if a default works out non-disastrously for Greece then other countries could be tempted to default. And international investors might worry that other countries could be tempted to default, raising interest rates and slowing the European economy. Only making default as painful as possible can safeguard the interests of other countries.

3) Letting Greece leave the Eurozone gracefully would be a disaster

Here's where the news gets really bad for Greece. Leaving the Eurozone could, in theory, go better or worse. But Europe needs it to go as badly as possible. After all, if Greece leaving goes pretty well, then other countries might be tempted to leave. And that raises the prospect of debt defaults, higher interest rates, and slowing European growth.

Once again, it's in Europe's interest to make things as hard as possible for Greece.

4) This is the time to fold 'em

The tragic irony, if you are Tsipras, is that his plan very well might have worked back in 2010 when his predecessors originally agreed to the terms of a bailout. Back then, the whole situation was considerably more fluid. Greece could have threatened to default and essentially commit a murder/suicide on the entire European economy unless it got better terms. That would have been a very risky strategy and you can see why the Greek government didn't pursue it. But it might have worked.

Yet as the song says, you need to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.

Five years ago was a good time for a risky bet. Today, Greece has no cards, and their best bet would have been to surrender months ago and hope to quietly score some small concessions down the road after building some good will.

Tsipras couldn't very well sweep to power promising to tear up the old deal and then agree to basically the same old deal. He had to make a great months-long show of trying for something better, even though it's always been impossible for him to get something better.

[madfranks]

Greeks Line Up at Banks and Drain ATMs as Tsipras Calls Vote

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-27/greeks-line-up-at-banks-and-drain-atms-after-tsipras-calls-vote

Some Greek banks were beginning to limit cash transactions as hundreds of people lined up outside branches and drained cash machines after Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras called a referendum that could decide his country’s fate in the euro.

Two senior Greek retail bank executives said as many as 500 of the country’s more than 7,000 ATMs had run out of cash as of Saturday morning, and that some lenders may not be able to open on Monday unless there was an emergency liquidity injection from the Bank of Greece. A central bank spokesman said it was making efforts to supply money to the system.

Some banks were placing limits in daily bank note and ATM transactions. Yiota Kardogianni, a manager at a branch of Piraeus Bank SA, said cash withdrawals were limited at 3,000 euros ($3,350) daily and ATM withdrawals at 600 euros. Alpha Bank AE had set a daily limit of 5,000 euros for most of its branches since last week.“I’m here to take my mother’s pension out before the machine runs out of cash,” said Erato Spyropoulou, who was standing in a line of about eight people at one of National Bank of Greece SA’s ATMs. “It’s very worrying what’s happening because people don’t know what they’re being asked to vote for. It’s the last nail in Greece’s coffin.”

Tsipras’s decision to hold a referendum asking people to rule on a proposal to unlock 15.5 billion euros in aid for Greece in return for sales-tax increases and pension reforms came hours before euro-area finance ministers were due to meet for the fifth time within 10 days to discuss the same question.

After withdrawing more than 30 billion euros as the anti-austerity Coalition of the Radical Left, or Syriza, took power, depositors are now reacting to the latest twist in the five-month standoff with European leaders and creditors. One banker said 110 million euros had been withdrawn from his institution as of 11:30 a.m. Athens time on Saturday.

Note Shortage

The European Central Bank has been reviewing liquidity conditions at Greek banks daily in the past week. Banking officials in Athens said they were expecting a shortage of euro notes by as early as Saturday evening. They asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Greek bank deposits by businesses and households fell to 129.9 billion euros in May from 133.7 billion euros the month before, according to data released by Bank of Greece on its website on Thursday.

The Bank of Greece is making every possible effort to supply the financial system with liquidity, a central bank official said on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak on the matter publicly. Officials from National Bank of Greece, Alpha, Piraeus and Eurobank Ergasias SA, the nation’s four biggest banks, all declined to comment.

Capital Controls

“Greek legislation allows either the Bank of Greece governor or the finance ministry to impose capital restrictions,” George Saravelos, foreign exchange strategist at Deutsche Bank AG, wrote in a note to clients. “The extent to which this materializes will depend on the ECB decision over the next 48 hours as well as depositor behavior.”

Some branches of Alpha Bank in central Athens that normally open for business on Saturdays remained shut and one carried a sign that it wouldn’t open.

About 100 people had lined up at a Piraeus Bank branch at a central Athens street before it opened. Some said they had waited for about three hours. Once word got out that the bank wouldn’t open, one elderly woman fainted.

As an ambulance pulled by to take her away, others spewed vitriol at everyone from the Greek prime minister to Germany.

“Tsipras said he would turn things around, but things are only going to get worse,” said Stavros, a 61-year-old retired sailor, who was lining up to withdraw his pension. He said he was initially planning to go to the bank on Monday but decided to line up on Saturday when he heard about the government’s referendum plans.

He said he won’t be able to pay his mortgage if the banking system doesn’t open on Monday.

[EE_]

Could we see some fireworks on Monday?

FX Brokerages Move To "Close Only" Ahead Of Monday Open
Tyler Durden's pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on 06/27/2015 13:19 -0400

First at Mayzus:

Upcoming risk - Instruments moving to 'Close Only' mode

Due to the uncertainty surrounding the ongoing Greek debt negotiations, and ahead of a potential announcement over the weekend that could lead to high volatility on the market, please be informed that we have decided to decrease your risks by temporarily moving all Instruments to 'Close Only' mode, from 22:30 GMT+3 on Friday the 26th of June 2015, until 00:30 GMT+3 on Monday the 29th of June 2015, trading terminal time.

Please take this information into consideration whilst making your trading decisions.

If you have any further questions regarding this issue, then please feel free to contact your Personal Account Manager or our support department on support@mayzus.com.
Shortly, everywhere else.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-27/fx-brokerages-move-close-only-ahead-monday-open

[palani]

Any country relying upon fiat money is doomed. Only a matter of time.

[Horn]

A banking system without liquidity, being forced into issuing parallel currencies is one of them.

A counterfeit counterfeit...

[ximmy]

Out of Order: Thousands of ATMs have been Cleaned out In Greece






http://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Greece-euro.jpg
As the talks between the Greek government and their creditors slowly falls apart, the citizens of Greece are busy preparing for the worst. They don’t want to be caught off guard like they were during the last economic crash, and they certainly don’t want to end up like the people of Cyprus, and have their hard-earned savings arbitrarily taken from them.
So they’re doing everything they can to insulate themselves from the potential collapse of their financial system, which largely includes taking their money out of the system. Earlier today, sources in the banking industry told Reuters that over one-third of the ATMs in the country, have been completely cleaned out (http://www.businessinsider.com/greeks-are-withdrawing-money-from-atms-faster-than-they-can-be-replenished-2015-6). Between 500 and 600 million Euros were withdrawn from the machines on Saturday, which managed to deplete over 2000 ATMs. Despite the alarming trend, the Greek government has claimed that everything is just hunky dory, and that there will be no capital controls imposed on bank accounts next week.
But the Greeks aren’t buying it, or at least they’re not taking any chances with what little money they’ve managed to accumulate since the last financial crisis. Shortly after Prime Minister Tsipras announced there would be a referendum on austerity, Greek citizens left their homes in droves and started lining up behind ATM’s at around 2am (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-26/its-2-morning-and-greeks-are-lining-atms-alpha-limits-online-banking). No matter what the government and the banks tell them, the Greeks clearly have no confidence in the system.

- See more at: http://www.thedailysheeple.com/out-of-order-thousands-of-atms-have-been-cleaned-out-in-greece_062015#sthash.37mA4uri.dpuf

[Serpo]

They are not selling their 110 tons of gold................

[EE_]

They are not selling their 110 tons of gold................

If they still have 110 tons, you can bet the ECB wants it.

[Horn]

their Euro printing plates too, if Greece has any army it must be stationed entirely around those.

Maybe the reason for stalling so long, they were busy printing billions of Euros.

[Twisted Titan]

God help the elderly,the young and the infirmed...

I feel the most for them.

[singular_me]

russia has offered to bail them out... and if this goes through, it would give russia a stake and possibly the upper hand on EU

[madfranks]

russia has offered to bail them out... and if this goes through, it would give russia a stake a possibly the upper hand on EU

Do you have a link?

[Dogman]

Do you have a link?

Read the same, think it was rejected!

Sorry no links!

Forum Runner

[singular_me]

I posted several links in my greece threads...

april 8...
http://news.forexlive.com/!/putin-lukewarm-on-lending-money-to-greece-20150408

june 15
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=275_1434710852&comments=1

june 18
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-wont-aid-greece-ahead-091846281.html


Greece couldn't get a debt deal with Europe. So it went to Russia and signed a controversial gas deal instead! june 19
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/19/news/greece-russia-gas-deal/index.html


MY 2 CENTS:
Greece has money now to pay EU's interests... but wont, and that why the EU sez no money for greece

[aeondaze]

I posted several links in my greece threads...

april 8...
http://news.forexlive.com/!/putin-lukewarm-on-lending-money-to-greece-20150408

june 15
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=275_1434710852&comments=1

june 18
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-wont-aid-greece-ahead-091846281.html

You either fail dismally at comprehension or you just choose to ignore facts and read into things whatever the fuck you like (I suggest its both) but what you said isn't true, and the links DON'T SAY THAT.

FIRST LINK


President Putin said Russia could lend money to Greece for joint large projects

Not to pay off debt!

SECOND LINK


Note, however, that during the last two days as Finance Minister of Russia Anton Silouanof and Deputy Sergei Stortsak have clarified that the Russian budget for this year does not provide assistance to Greece.

THIRD LINK


A top Russian official has declined to say whether his country is going to lend money to Greece

Russia NEVER offered to pay off Greece's debt and even if they did quietly behind closed doors you don't know about it because there is no substantive proof.

This display of diplomacy between Russia and Greece was solely reserved for rattling the western banks cages, there is no actual substance to the story whatsoever.

This is why madfranks is questioning you, he has actually read what has been said and knows this isn't true. Are you really that obtuse?

[singular_me]

aeon, greece has only the interests to pay to eu central banks to avoid bankruptcy, which is ONLY several hundreds of thousands... and russian pipeline deal means that greece can afford the interests.

more over, you based your comments on 3 links while I have followed this quite daily and have at least 5 or 6 threads describing the situation on here... do some homework before posting

White House: Concern Over Russia Bailing Out Greece 'Moderated'
http://www.newsmax.com/John-Gizzi/Greece-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-Alexis-Tsipras/2015/06/23/id/651795/



Russia ‘ready to consider bailing out Greece’
june 19
Russia says it is ready to consider offering loans to debt-stricken Greece, which is struggling to secure financial aid from its Western creditors. Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich “We will support any decision (on the Greek debt crisis) that is proposed by Greece and our European partners,” said, “The most important things for us are investment projects and trade with Greece. If financial support is needed, we will consider this question. .... http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/19/416579/Russia-Greece-Arkady-Dvorkovich

my 2 cents

I do NOT think russia will bailout greece but could make deals to help out greece and buy influence.

[aeondaze]

aeon, greece has only the interests to pay to eu central banks to avoid bankruptcy, which is ONLY several hundreds of thousands... and russian pipeline deal means that greece can afford the interests.

more over, you based your comments on 3 links while I have followed this quite daily... do some homework before posting

White House: Concern Over Russia Bailing Out Greece 'Moderated'
http://www.newsmax.com/John-Gizzi/Greece-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-Alexis-Tsipras/2015/06/23/id/651795/



Russia ‘ready to consider bailing out Greece’
june 19
Russia says it is ready to consider offering loans to debt-stricken Greece, which is struggling to secure financial aid from its Western creditors. Deputy Prime Minister Arkady Dvorkovich “We will support any decision (on the Greek debt crisis) that is proposed by Greece and our European partners,” said, “The most important things for us are investment projects and trade with Greece. If financial support is needed, we will consider this question. .... http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/06/19/416579/Russia-Greece-Arkady-Dvorkovich

No!

Again you chose to take the sensationalist headline as fact instead of reading what has actually been said by Russia...the pertinent bits are in red!

"IF", "not we will" and it was never couched in terms you used like "bailout" but rather "financial support".

You fail to see the subtle difference, a difference I might add that Russia specifically took great pains to formulate in such a way.

There is no bail-out!

madfranks read these same statements and knows this, that is why he questions your indelicate and somewhat bombastic terminology.

[singular_me]

If financial support is needed, we will consider this question. ....

to each his town aeon... now you are splitting hair again because you failed to do your own research. Look for my threads on here.

3 post ago: what I said
russia has offered to bail them out... and if this goes through, it would give russia a stake and possibly the upper hand on EU

again you are NOT reading what I said and should email to theguardian and presstv for using the word "bailout" inappropriately.


june 17
Tsipras to meet Putin over bailout loan as fears of Greek exit from EU mount
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/17/tsipras-to-meet-putin-over-bailout-loan-as-fears-of-greek-exit-from-eu-mount

But I also regard this as a big chess game whose outcome has already been decided, and if greece has to be the culprit, so be it, even russia agrees with it.

[singular_me]

russia,china,usa to rescue greece???
http://redpilltimes.com/usa-russia-bailing-greece-together-greeces-plan-b-may-see-russia-us-china-come-rescue/


Must read: The Greek butterfly effect. Why math crushed Greece, and why math will crush the US and EU
http://redpilltimes.com/must-read-the-greek-butterfly-effect-why-math-crushed-greece-and-why-math-will-crush-the-us-and-eu/

they need a full alignment to cause a global economic collapse.... no if but when

[Down1]

Golden Dawn members in lockdown on phony charges.

Banks will not open Monday.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB11064341213388534269604581075703841095260

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/06/28/greek-banks-will-not-open-monday/


http://www.france24.com/en/20150628-greece-banks-stock-exchange-closed

[Jewboo]

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/VW-Workers-on-Passat-line.jpg
German Workers and Taxpayers




http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/62426/dyn009_original_900_505_pjpeg__f05772d227789cafcf8 2ea3e14e8f84c.jpg
Greek Parasites






:rolleyes: the European Union...lol.




http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00867/money-graphics-2008_867203a.jpg
German Hand



http://www.nazeleno.cz/Files/FckGallery/Nov%C3%BD%20objekt%20-%20Komprimovan%C3%A1%20slo%C5%BEka%20%28metoda%20Z IP%29.zip/01.jpg
Greek Hand

[Horn]

Where's Magnes posting these days?

[osoab]

Greece went from "all is well" to banks closed for a week in a day.

What else will be added to the Referendum?

[Serpo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CInfIQmWUAEKXm1.jpg

[Horn]

Greece went from "all is well" to banks closed for a week in a day.

What else will be added to the Referendum?

That doesn't seem to make sense, does it? public opinion should slide to favor more EU austerity.

Is the plan to convert back to the Drachma within a week?

[ximmy]

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/VW-Workers-on-Passat-line.jpg
German Workers and Taxpayers




http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/62426/dyn009_original_900_505_pjpeg__f05772d227789cafcf8 2ea3e14e8f84c.jpg
Greek Parasites






:rolleyes: the European Union...lol.




http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00867/money-graphics-2008_867203a.jpg
German Hand



http://www.nazeleno.cz/Files/FckGallery/Nov%C3%BD%20objekt%20-%20Komprimovan%C3%A1%20slo%C5%BEka%20%28metoda%20Z IP%29.zip/01.jpg
Greek Hand




Careful with the pics of leisure There is a lot of tourism in Greece.

Greek tourism stays strong despite euro zone worries
Despite fears that Greece (http://www.cnbc.com/id/10000275) could leave the euro zone, its tourism industry—which accounts for nearly 20 percent of the country's GDP—is still healthy, according to government data.


http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2015/06/24/102786082-greece-tourism.530x298.jpg?v=1435255954 Getty Images
Tourists visit Acropolis Hill in Athens, June 23, 2015.

The arrival of international tourists to Greek airports was up 9.5 percent this year through May, compared with the same period last year, according to the Association of Greek Tourism Enterprises. (http://sete.gr/el/statistika-vivliothiki/statistika/)

Greece will continue to be a popular tourist destination as long as social unrest does not grip the country like it did in 2010, people in the industry told CNBC.

[mick silver]

i wonder what we could see In a few more days if we see more big drops in the Markets
Updated: 3:53:05pm ET



Dow -1.75%
17,632.85 / -313.83 (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow)
Nasdaq -2.30%
4,963.77 / -116.74 (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/nasdaq)
S&P -1.92%
2,061.13 / -40.36 (http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/sandp)

[Serpo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=173&v=sJMUCjGY0Vo