Anti Vaccine propaganda; destroying the myths

[aeondaze]

First up there seems to be some grossly unfounded opinions that unvaccinated children are healthier than vaccinated children.

Sadly the truth is this is pure propaganda and has no basis whatsoever in reality. In fact one of these "surveys" because that what they are, they aren't properly conducted clinical trials by any stretch actually showed there was no link between autism and vaccination, but you won't hear that from them.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/08/31/an-anti-vaccine-administered-survey-back/


For example, four years ago, J.B. Handley’s (now Jenny McCarthy’s) anti-vaccine propaganda group Generation Rescue did what was billed as a “study” of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children. It was nothing of the sort. Rather, it was a poorly designed phone survey whose results in some groups suggested that vaccines protected against autism, although Generation Rescue spun it as supporting the vaccine-autism hypothesis. Of course, the whole survey was so ridiculously badly designed that you really couldn’t tell anything from it at all, given its selection bias and failure to control for confounders, but that doesn’t stop it from periodically rising from the grave and shambling off to feast on the brains of antivaxers, who then cite it as though it’s evidence of anything other than the incompetence of Generation Rescue at any sort of research.

Now they’re at it again, although it’s not Generation Rescue who did this new “study.” Even so, not surprisingly, the anti-vaccine propaganda blog Age of Autism is nonetheless promoting it under the title Vax UnVax Study Results, as is the one anti-vaccine website that can challenge NaturalNews.com for the sheer intensity of its burning stupid, Child Health Safety, which is promoting the study/survey breathlessly as New Survey Shows Unvaccinated Children Vastly Healthier – Far Lower Rates of Chronic Conditions and Autism.

It does nothing of the sort.

In fact, looking at the actual survey used, although it pains me to say so, Generation Rescue comes out looking more competent than VaccineInjury.info, the English-language version of Impfschaden.info, a German anti-vaccine website run by a homeopath named Andreas Bachmair, who conducted the survey. You’ll see what I mean in a minute. The survey begins with this introduction:

"For statistical evaluation of the state of health of entirely unvaccinated children we request you to fill out the following form. The data will be published anonymously and handled with utmost confidentiality. The results help us to acquire accurate information about the health of unvaccinated children."

Does anyone see a problem here? Well, actually, does anyone see several problems, but one glaring problem besides the problem of this being an anonymous Internet survey that anyone can fill out? Let’s just put it this way. Even Generation Rescue tried to have an actual control group, namely vaccinated children. Indeed, although Generation Rescue did a crappy and arbitrary job of it, its survey company at least tried to stratify respondents into different dose levels of vaccines, to produce three groups: unvaccinated, partially vaccinated, and fully vaccinated. What does Bachmair do? Nothing of the sort! He only collects data on “entirely unvaccinated children.” He even puts it in bold! Let’s just say that the construction of this survey demonstrates in this survey all the scientific understanding and rigor that I would expect from a homeopath, given that homeopaths believe that magic water cures people.

Before I come back to the horrendously bad methodology, why don’t we just summarize some of the results of this survey and then look at some of the reactions? There were a total of 7,762 children whose information was provided to the survey, and the general results are summarized as the state of health of unvaccinated children. Before we get to the “money results,” let’s take a peak at some anomalies that suggest that this particular group might not be–shall we say–strictly comparable to children in the population at large. For example:

The parents stated that their preferred treatment was naturopathic and homeopathic. Less than 10% said they preferred conventional medicine. Treatment in the “other” column was mainly chiropractic and supplemental.

So, right away, this survey demonstrates that the parents who filled it out were a self-selected, biased sample, the vast majority of whom favor alternative medicine and are hostile to scientific medicine. Indeed, 99.69% of the respondents report being happy that they did not vaccinate their children. One thing that this love of woo and hostility towards scientific medicine can mean is that a lot of these children could have subclinical or mildly clinical disease that goes undiagnosed because they never take their children to a real doctor, preferring instead homeopaths, naturopaths, and chiropractors.

To get a flavor of the health results, let’s look at the part of the report that asks about asthma and atopic diseases:

"Asthma, hayfever and neurodermatitis are seen very frequently today. A recent German study with 17461 children between 0-17 years of age (KIGGS) showed that 4.7% of these children suffer from asthma, 10.7% of these children from hayfever and 13.2% from neurodermatitis. These numbers differ in western countries, i.e. the prevalence of asthma among children in the US is 6% whereas it is 14-16% in Australia (Australia’s Health 2004, AIHW)
The prevalence of asthma among unvaccinated children in our study is around 2.5%, hayfever 2.5% and neurodermatitis 7%.
According to the KIGGS study more than 40% of children between the ages of 3 and 17 years were sensitized against at least one allergen tested (20 common allergens were tested) and 22.9% had an allergic disease. Although we did not perform a bloodtest, around 10% stated that their children had an allergy.

One wonders how, if these parents chose homeopaths, naturopaths, and chiropractors over real doctors, they had any idea whatsoever whether or not their children actually had asthma. One of the most common presentations of asthma is cough alone. In fact, milder cases of asthma can be difficult to diagnose in children; so once again, what the parents report probably doesn’t tell us much. Neither does the claim that far fewer of these children had allergies.

Which brings us to autism.

If you scroll down to the graph looking at autism and various other problems, such as ADHD, you’ll find that the overall prevalence reported in these children was 0.57%. In terms of raw numbers, that’s 44 children, which makes this statement rather puzzling:

There are also autism cases in unvaccinated children. However over 80% stated, that it is only a mild form or a high functioning form of autism. Among all participants there were 4 severe autism cases.

Apparently, basic math isn’t a homeopath’s strong suit, which probably explains why they can’t understand the concept of Avagadro’s number. Be that as it may, if 20% of autistic children equals four, then there could only be 20 autistic children, but the survey suggests that there were twice that many in unvaccinated children. (One wonders what Tony Bateson would say.) In any case, a prevalence of 0.57%, even if this survey were accurate, would be within the range of estimated prevalences found in various studies. Perhaps Bachmair knows that, which is why he tried to emphasize “severe” autism and then came up with those additional factoids about some of these four to suggest that they had been exposed to mercury or heavy metals. Even worse for Bachmair, if you look at the graph of autism by age range in these children, depending on the age range it ranges from 0.37% to a whopping 2.36%, the latter of which is almost as high as a recent study in Korea found. In fact, if you look at the age range of the responses, nearly half of the responses (3,075) were for children under two years old, which is young enough that autism might very well have not been diagnosed yet, and in this group the reported prevalence was 0.37%, while in the 11-12 year range the prevalence was highest, at 2.36%. In fact, autism prevalence is so obviously not appreciably different in the unvaccinated in this survey compared to reported prevalence numbers that even a commenter at Age of Autism wrote:

If you look at all the age groups >2 years old the autism incidence ranges from 0.63 to 2.36%, with most being in the range 1-2%, the population size was about 3500 replies. My main criticism is a self selected population with potentially varying diagnostic criteria, but on these data the incidence of autism in unvaccinated children seems to match vaccinated children.

There’s no “seems” about it. The prevalence of autism in unvaccinated children in this survey does closely match reported numbers for overall population prevalence in populations where the vast majority of children are vaccinated. This result is an unmitigated disaster for Bachmair and his groupies, which is why I couldn’t stop laughing when I read this from ChildHealthSafety:

It is interesting neither the US National Institutes of Health [US$30.5 billion annual budget on medical research] nor the US Centers for Disease Control [US$11 billion budget annually] could find the time or money to fund this kind of research but instead waste US tax dollars on a great deal of pointless medical research and promotion of iatrogenic [man made] disease causing agents [modern drug company “treatments”].

No, it’s not really that interesting. Say what you will about the NIH, it does have a pretty rigorous peer review process, which means that it doesn’t (usually) fund crap. In fact, this survey was so poorly designed and analyzed that I doubt even the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) would fund it. Unfortunately, now this “study” will no doubt join the Generation Rescue “study” in the annals of crap vaccine/autism science, to circulate around Whale.to (where it belongs) and be dredged up as “evidence” periodically. Old, refuted anti-vaccine studies never die, alas.

In any case, I take some comfort in the hilarious result of this survey that demonstrates that autism prevalence in the unvaccinated is similar to autism prevalence among the vaccinated, no matter how much anti-vaccine activists try to spin it otherwise. I realize that this survey is in fact so poorly designed that it really doesn’t tell us much of anything, but it is fun watching anti-vaxer brains explode trying to spin this result as supporting the vaccine/autism hypothesis.

The enjoyment I get watching that assuages my guilt for picking on homeopaths so.

NOTE: I notice that the total number of children is increasing. It’s now up to 7,799 at this moment, suggesting that 30 people have filled it out since last night. Given that Child Health Safety lists it as 7,724 five days ago that suggests that the surveys still open and is automatically updating totals.

[aeondaze]

OK, now onto the horrid Mike Adams of Natural News, the one Serpo and SM like to masturbate over.

The headline goes something like this "Vaccinations Kill Mexican Childen"

Is it true?

Well lets look at the FATCS....

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/14/no-vaccine-reactions-didnt-kill-several-children-in-mexico/


Rather, as has been reported in the Mexican press, they were due to bacterial contamination. In other words, these babies died of sepsis or were hospitalized for sepsis, not adverse reactions from a vaccine, and their symptoms were entirely consistent with an overwhelming bacterial infection.

What I wonder now is this: How did this happen? Was there a problem with refrigeration after a multiuse vial had been used? It seems unlikely that this would account for so many babies being infected, because there aren’t enough doses in a multidose vial to infect so many children. It seems more likely that the fault occurred at the manufacturing plant, although it’s also possible it was a local storage issue that allowed bacterial colonization and overgrowth. Of course, this is all speculation on my part, given that we do not yet have any definitive evidence telling us what happened. Indeed, we don’t even know yet (as of my writing this last night) which species of bacteria contaminated the vials.

Don’t get me wrong here. I am not in any way minimizing the tragedy that has occurred. Children are dead. Many more were hospitalized, some requiring mechanical ventilation. A full and complete investigation is required urgently to determine what went wrong and how these vaccines became contaminated with bacteria. That was the problem, not some general problem with vaccines inherent in their design that led to severe adverse reactions. It is a distinction that will be lost on people who so fear and distrust vaccines that they view them as inherently dangerous and useless, who are so eager to blame vaccines for every ill suffered by children that they will gladly leap on any story that they think they can use to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt about vaccines.

Thats right these poor babies that Serpo is USING in a disgusting manner to somehow support her insane and vitriolic irrational obsession with vaccines died of sepsis from bacterial infection, it had NOTHING to with vaccines whatsoever.

Personally I find that despicable that someone who claims to be looking out for the greater good of "the children" callously use these poor children as proof to support their despicable and dangerous agenda. Thats just sickening and shameful, thats right serpo you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Uncle Salty]

Fill your body with vaccines or not.

Just give me the freedom and sovereignty over my body and that of my children.

[aeondaze]

Fill your body with vaccines or not.

Just give me the freedom and sovereignty over my body and that of my children.

Do what you like to your own body, but I'm beginning to come around to the idea that those that don't vaccinate their children are guilty of negligence.

You obviously haven't read or bothered to read these clear rejections of the anti vaccine claims, if you have then you're thinking is nothing short of bloody minded ignorance lacking any logical basis.

[Uncle Salty]

Do what you like to your own body, but I'm beginning to come around to the idea that those that don't vaccinate their children are guilty of negligence.

Okay. So that is what you think. I disagree.

Herd immunity is bullshit. There is no such thing. Vaccines don't work on about 30% of the population as their bodies just don't create antibodies.

Medical tyranny is a greater threat than getting sick with whooping cough, measles, or chicken pox.

Freedom...I dig it.

[collector]

Do what you like to your own body, but I'm beginning to come around to the idea that those that don't vaccinate their children are guilty of negligence.


Here's a book you might enjoy http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Village-Tenth-Anniversary/dp/1416540644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441242409&sr=8-1&keywords=hillary+it+takes+a+village

[aeondaze]

Okay. So that is what you think. I disagree.

Herd immunity is bullshit. There is no such thing. Vaccines don't work on about 30% of the population as their bodies just don't create antibodies.

Medical tyranny is a greater threat than getting sick with whooping cough, measles, or chicken pox.

Freedom...I dig it.

Sorry Mr. Salty, but again thats just more unfounded claims. To be sure I don't like a lot of the medical industries practices, particularly in relation to insurance, costs and somne of their dubious medications, but in relation to vaccines I think the proof is there, you just refuse to accept the cutting logic and ample proof of its greater good.

You've conveniently missed a whole lot of other dangerous infections like small pox and polio. What, you think these infections ore innocuous too?

BTW whooping cough and measles kills. PERIOD. If you want to play Russian roulette with your children's health then I think your views are a tragic disappointment.

[aeondaze]

Here's a book you might enjoy http://www.amazon.com/Takes-Village-Tenth-Anniversary/dp/1416540644/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441242409&sr=8-1&keywords=hillary+it+takes+a+village

No thanks!

So I take it your just another poster that is incapable of actually addressing the topic without resorting to snide remarks? Thought so.

[ximmy]

Here is a link to a thread on pro-vaccination that aeondaze started. He then closed the thread because of the great anti-vaccination information provided by other users. Because he is pro-vaccination, it is in his interest to prevent you from seeing this information, so he closed the thread he started. Now he has opened this thread, on the same topic, in an attempt to promote his pro-vaccination stance and hide the information against vaccinations.

Please visit this thread to see for yourself.

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?84943-Organic-foods-cause-autism!&p=790105&viewfull=1#post790105

[collector]

No thanks!

So I take it your just another poster that is incapable of actually addressing the topic without resorting to snide remarks? Thought so.

So you ask a question and then answer it yourself - no need for me to respond, right?

[aeondaze]

More disinformation from someone who is evading an explanation of why they support the hypothesis that vaccinations are a cause of autism yet organic foods are not.

PLEASE VISIT ALL THREADS

I have nothing to hide, unlike ximmy who refuses to answer the question and makes false claims about "fake data" (even though I doubt she actually understands what that means)

The thread was closed because ONE poster in particular was spamming the thread and refused to address the OP. much like ximmy cannot answer the question of causation, lol

Their absurd claims are addressed here appropriately. ;)

[aeondaze]

So you ask a question and then answer it yourself - no need for me to respond, right?


haha, you do realise that was a response, right?

LMFAO :cool:

[Ares]

There are no "official" links to vaccine cause Autism because the ones conducting the surveys buried the information:

http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/obama-grants-immunity-to-cdc-whistleblower-on-measles-vaccine-link-to-autism/

Patrick Howley of The Daily Caller has reported that the Obama administration has granted whistleblower immunity to Dr. William Thompson, a senior epidemiologist at the CDC who co-authored and published research on the MMR vaccine for the CDC back in 2004. His decision to become a whistleblower and reveal data that was concealed by the CDC linking the MMR vaccine to autism among African American boys was revealed during the summer of 2014.

In his report, Howley links to a letter published on the Natural News website from the summer of 2014 sent by Dr. Thompson to then-CDC director Dr. Julie Gerberding in February 2004, where he expressed his concerns to Dr. Gerberding about how the CDC was concealing data linking the measles MMR vaccine to autism. (Letter here (http://www.naturalnews.com/images/CDC-Gerberding-Warning-Vaccines-Autism.jpg).)

Howley points out that Gerberding is now an executive vice president at Merck, the pharmaceutical giant that is currently the sole manufacturer of the measles vaccine. Gerberding originally left the CDC to take the position of president of Merck’s vaccine division.

The revolving door between the FDA, CDC, and biotech firms are the reason REAL information doesn't make it into the mainstream and has to rely upon whistle blowers.

[aeondaze]

There are no "official" links to vaccine cause Autism because the ones conducting the surveys buried the information:

http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/obama-grants-immunity-to-cdc-whistleblower-on-measles-vaccine-link-to-autism/

Patrick Howley of The Daily Caller has reported that the Obama administration has granted whistleblower immunity to Dr. William Thompson, a senior epidemiologist at the CDC who co-authored and published research on the MMR vaccine for the CDC back in 2004. His decision to become a whistleblower and reveal data that was concealed by the CDC linking the MMR vaccine to autism among African American boys was revealed during the summer of 2014.

In his report, Howley links to a letter published on the Natural News website from the summer of 2014 sent by Dr. Thompson to then-CDC director Dr. Julie Gerberding in February 2004, where he expressed his concerns to Dr. Gerberding about how the CDC was concealing data linking the measles MMR vaccine to autism. (Letter here (http://www.naturalnews.com/images/CDC-Gerberding-Warning-Vaccines-Autism.jpg).)

Howley points out that Gerberding is now an executive vice president at Merck, the pharmaceutical giant that is currently the sole manufacturer of the measles vaccine. Gerberding originally left the CDC to take the position of president of Merck’s vaccine division.

The revolving door between the FDA, CDC, and biotech firms are the reason REAL information doesn't make it into the mainstream and has to rely upon whistle blowers.

Nope, NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/did-a-high-ranking-whistleblower-really-reveal-that-the-cdc-covered-up-proof-that-vaccines-cause-autism-in-african-american-boys/

Recall, back in August, that biochemical engineer turned antivaccine activist and epidemiologist wannabe, published a study, recently retracted, that basically provided strong evidence that Andrew Wakefield was wrong about the MMR vaccine being associated with autism. When I first saw Hooker’s study, even I recognized how utterly incompetently it was carried out, and I’m not even an epidemiologist or statistician. After all, it’s pretty obvious that data collected for a case control study should not be analyzed as a cohort study, but that’s just what Hooker did. When I first read the study, I was actually not as hard on it as I should have been. The more I’ve read, and the more I’ve found out, the more I’ve realized just how badly done it was. Contrary to what Hooker apparently believes, simplicity is not beauty in statistics, particularly when you fail to control for obvious confounders and analyze data incorrectly. The result was a “finding” that there was a 3.4-fold increased risk of autism associated with MMR in African-American boys. Never mind that the numbers of this subgroup were tiny and the data incorrectly analyzed. Never mind that the rest of the data were negative as negative could be for even a whiff of a hint of a correlation between vaccines and autism for any other subgroup and that the vast majority of the leaders of the antivaccine movement are your basic affluent white people who never showed much in the way of an interest in the problems of African-American children before. Suddenly, this finding was being likened to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment by Andrew Wakefield himself!

This incompetent study was the result, allegedly, of discussions between Hooker and a senior psychologist at the CDC named William Thompson. For reasons that are still not clear, Thompson, a co-author on an important study by DeStefano et al, confided in Hooker, who, betraying his confidences, recorded much of what he said, an action whose legality is unclear given that it’s unclear where all of these recordings were made (one party or two party consent states). Hooker then teamed up with Andrew Wakefield to cherry pick bits to make it sound as though Thompson were confessing to some horrible crime of data manipulation to hide this “bombshell” result reported by Wakefield. Thus was born the “CDC whistleblower,” who featured prominently in the video likening DeStefano et al and the “coverup” to the Tuskegee syphilis experiment. Later, Thompson released as statement through his lawyer characterizing the whole problem over DeStefano et al as being a scientific disagreement. Nonetheless, a new conspiracy theory was born: The “CDC whistleblower,” complete with its own hashtag on Twitter, #CDCwhistleblower. Thompson has said nothing publicly since then, and the mainstream media has basically ignored the story other than an interview with Ronan Farrow of MSNBC that basically trashed the claims of the antivaccine movement.

In his recorded call with Dr. Thompson of 5.8.14, Dr. Hooker pressed the Dr. Thompson on whether he raised his concerns about the omission of significant data with The Group in the days leading up to the IOM meeting.

Dr. Hooker: Did you raise that…did you raise that issue at the time?

Dr. Thompson: I will say I raised this issue…I will say I raised this issue, the uh…two days before I became delusional.

This reference is important: three days before the IOM presentation Thompson – faced with either presenting false data or taking responsibility for the vaccine-autism link in front of potentially hostile parents of autistic children25 – stopped sleeping, and became profoundly depressed and “delusional.” Crucially, he reports no prior history of mental disorder.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________

The supposed whisltblower you're talking of, has admitted and its on record, that two days before he raised these supposed issues he became delusional! Thats why the story goes nowhere, because they guy has serious medical concerns that raise questions about the validity of his claims.

This story is a horrible beatup with no basis in scientific fact, what you have is Hooker and Wakefiled manipulating data to suit their agenda.

[Ares]

*sigh*

Do you rely on computer programmers to provide your information?

Jay Novella is the registered owner of the site you just posted. He's a software developer, and if you've ever known any they typically come off with a god complex anyway. Regardless he's not a doctor.

The author you are quoting is a doctor but is a surgical oncologist. Not an epidemiologist or a immunologist. Not exactly an authority figure on immunity.

There are studies that show vaccines not to be effective:

A controlled study published in BMJ (http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7560/174.full) in school age children showed that of all the whooping cough that was diagnosed, over 86% of the children were fully vaccinated and up to date for the whooping cough vaccine.

Another study:
A very noteworthy study (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/11/20/1314688110.abstract) was published in 2013, looking at baboons, which are susceptible and manifest whooping cough like humans do. In the study by Warfel, baboons who were either vaccinated or not vaccinated were later exposed to pertussis bacteria, something that cannot be done experimentally in humans (due to ethical considerations), but which yields very important data. Expectedly, the baboons that had never been infected got the cough and remained colonized with bacteria for a maximum of 38 days. Baboons that were previously vaccinated and immune vaccine-style, became colonized upon later exposure for a longer time than the naïve baboons; 42 days. However unvaccinated baboons that recovered naturally and were later exposed to the bacteria did not become colonized at all – zero days.


We can go back and forth on this subject. I just took a vaccine ingredient list and opened up an MSDS data sheet and looked up each ingredient listed and there's no way I'm putting that in my body or that of my kids.

You are free to do as you see fit, as are we all.

[aeondaze]

Do you rely on computer programmers to provide your information?

It depends if they have a *decent* grasp of statistical anaylsis, in this case this gentleman DOES.


There are studies that show vaccines not to be effective:

A controlled study published in BMJ (http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7560/174.full) in school age children showed that of all the whooping cough that was diagnosed, over 86% of the children were fully vaccinated and up to date for the whooping cough vaccine.


This is the title of that study:

Whooping cough in school age children presenting with persistent cough in UK primary care after introduction of the preschool pertussis booster vaccination: prospective cohort study.

They conclude that its probably prudent to have a booster for whooping cough for school aged children. Sounds reasonable, whooping cough strains will evolve therefore immunity cannot be guaranteed indefinitely, no one claims that vasccines work that way.

Its not proof that immunisation isn't effective, I know you want to think that.

There are plenty of problems trying to correlate human vaccines in other species so I won't touch on that, suffice to say it is NOT conclusive by any means. Its interesting though I will grant you that.

Yea, as said do as you will to yourself, but IMO not vaccinating your children is tantamount to neglect. :rolleyes:

[Ares]

This is the title of that study:

Whooping cough in school age children presenting with persistent cough in UK primary care after introduction of the preschool pertussis booster vaccination: prospective cohort study.

They conclude that its probably prudent to have a booster for whooping cough for school aged children. Sounds reasonable, whooping cough strains will evolve therefore immunity cannot be guaranteed indefinitely, no one claims that vasccines work that way.

But they do, MERCK hasn't changed the whooping cough strain used to make the vaccine since the 50's. So if bacteria evolves that would mean (SHOULD mean anyway) that the strain used to make the vaccine should also change with it. It hasn't......


Its not proof that immunisation isn't effective, I know you want to think that.

No but it proves heard immunity is bullshit. The FDA came to the same conclusion:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm376937.htm

This research suggests that although individuals immunized with an acellular pertussis vaccine may be protected from disease, they may still become infected with the bacteria without always getting sick and are able to spread infection to others, including young infants who are susceptible to pertussis disease.


There are plenty of problems trying to correlate human vaccines in other species so I won't touch on that, suffice to say it is NOT conclusive by any means. Its interesting though I will grant you that.

True, but we can't exactly test on humans without violating a number of ethics and morals. So the only thing we have to go on is wild data which isn't always good at giving us a straight answer.


Yea, as said do as you will to yourself, but IMO not vaccinating your children is tantamount to neglect. :rolleyes:

You're entitled to your opinion. It's never neglect when you have your child's best interest at heart and in mind. I can't get concrete data either way in the vaccine debate, so I'll risk my kids getting an uncomfortable disease (measles, whooping cough, mumps, chicken pox etc) are not deadly. Polio was shown in the late 40's to be cured mega dosing vitamin C by Dr. Klenner.

Personally I believe nutrition plays a bigger role in disease, prevention, and immunity more than vaccines. This vax / anti-vax has gone on for over 300 years. Neither you or I debating it on an internet forum is going to resolve that debate anytime soon. :)

[Uncle Salty]

Vaccines are a threat to the well being of humans. It allows the weak to survive.

Cull the fucking herd and let the weak fuckers die.

Wild animals don't need vaccines and just fine.

We are all going to die.

Fuck forced vaccines and the tyrants that support them.

[Norweger]

Atheists and their precious vaccines...

[aeondaze]

Neither you or I debating it on an internet forum is going to resolve that debate anytime soon. :)

And yet the subject invokes some of the most nasty and vitriolic responses this forum ever seen, riddle me that!

It seems the subject sends most of you guys into a blind rage. You want to be left alone to do as you please but refuse to grant that to others, this vitriolic display in these posts are a classic example of irrational hatred, why can't you see that?

You make the claim that others can do as they wish, but as soon as someone might profess faith in vaccinations you want to tear them down, if you think everyone should be able to make their own choices why do you feel the need to resort to that kind of base behavior?

And they think their vitriol and name calling is a sign of "winning an argument". Its so funny yet so appalling, and really exemplifies their irrational hatred of anyone who might have an opinion of their own.

Thats not winning, thats beeing a fuckwit...:rolleyes:



It makes no sense, unless people really don't believe the rubbish about each to their own like they post...o)(~

[Jewboo]

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002851265/4648617280_wwwdistockphotodcom_xlarge.jpeg

It seems the subject sends most of you guys into a blind rage.




You poor outcast.

:rolleyes:

[aeondaze]

You poor outcast.

:rolleyes:

Hahaha, you only wish old man :rolleyes:

[ximmy]

Perhaps some sort of a graph with statistical data on it might be helpful in presenting your case aeondaze?

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mountain-range-through-a-tennis-raquet.jpg

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?84947-Personal-attack-vs-not-a-personal-attack&p=790382&viewfull=1#post790382

[aeondaze]

Perhaps some sort of a graph with statistical data on it might be helpful in presenting your case aeondaze?[/IMG]

But ximmy my dear, you don't understand statimatistical stuff anyhow....:rolleyes:

Thanks for your flawed efforts though...:)

Here thats graph again....

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ScreenHunter_04-Jan.-07-23.11.jpg

Care to explain why you don't believe this but believe vaccines cause autism? You know since you're such a "statimatistical" genius and all...

(Oh boy this is fun)

[ximmy]

7837

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7837&d=1441259119

[aeondaze]

Still at it?

I must have really touched a raw nerve with you....:rolleyes:

Its OK, you can't be good at everything zimmy, its kind of sweet that you try though :-*

[Shami-Amourae]

I think we shouldn't get rid of vaccines entirely.

We could wipe out entire non-White populations with them. If I was dictator I'd deny them to all White people since they should be punish for their "White Privilege".

Bill Gates has the right idea. He's been doing more to kill off Africans and Asians than anyone else.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2908963/Judges-demand-answers-children-die-controversial-cancer-vaccine-trial-India.html

Judges demand answers after children die in controversial cancer vaccine trial in India


Tribal girls were given shots of cervical cancer vaccines during trial
Children given Merck's Gardasil and Cervarix vaccines
Petitioners also asked judges to investigate trials of new drug Gardasil 9
Drug has allegedly caused side-effects in children as young as nine
Investigation claims children were used as unwitting human guinea pigs
Supreme Court has given the government one month to provide answers

[Shami-Amourae]

http://i.share.pho.to/901b9af8_l.jpeg (http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

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[Shami-Amourae]

http://i.share.pho.to/bdb17f2c_l.png (http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)





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(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

[Shami-Amourae]

(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)


http://i.share.pho.to/37205dfb_l.png (http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

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(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

[Glass]

Stop spamming this thread with truth Shami. Shame on you. :cool:

[Shami-Amourae]

http://i.share.pho.to/b12bd6de_l.png (http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)




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(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

[Shami-Amourae]

(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal) http://i.share.pho.to/d648894f_l.jpeg (http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)



(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)
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(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

(http://share.pho.to/9gqJu#fullscreen-modal)

[Shami-Amourae]

Stop spamming this thread with truth Shami. Shame on you. :cool:


Not spam. I'm providing a ton of evidence.

[Glass]

Not spam. I'm providing a ton of evidence.

This could become the definitive GSUS vax resource.

[Shami-Amourae]

This could become the definitive GSUS vax resource.

We have the evidence on our side.

If you support vaccines you're either signalling that your aligned with the Establishment, or in on reducing the world's population.

Bill Gates made that clear in a TED talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WQtRI7A064

[Glass]

Vaccines are the "antidote" from all those movies. You know the ones where they inject the hero guy with something that is going to kill them and then they say, You have to do this in order to get the Anti Dote to the poison we injected in you. It's a slow release poison but you need the anti dote.

As a kid, I used to imagine all the ways they could kill us, put stuff in the water, things in needles they injected you with, poison in the food. How was I to know as a kid, that that is what they were really, actually doing.

[Shami-Amourae]

Mainstream media vaccine advocate admits he doesn't give his own children and wife vaccines:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1-LuDt6nYg

[aeondaze]

This could become the definitive GSUS vax resource.

Only a true intellectual deadbeat that has ONLY half of the facts because he has a poster on ignore would make that claim.

Hahaha, you really are a VERY ignorant fool. But hey, its obvious to anyone with half a brain cell anyhow...

Glass ------------------------>

https://archive.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1394/61/1394619206074.jpg

:rolleyes:

[aeondaze]

Most of what you posted SA, is old news, most of its been debunked in previous threads.

Its nice to see you make an effort but you sort of missed the boat on this one. Most of what you posted has no merit, and unfortunately for you I don't double post info, so you'll just have to go back and read whats been previously written...

Or hey, here's an original idea, why don't you delve into the articles yourself a little bit more rather than carpet bomb the thread without getting any background to your info and taking these misleading articles as pure gospel.

;)

What you;ve done here really doesn't take much effort, investigating the claims on the other hand does. This sort of leaves your efforts looking more than just a little shallow.

[aeondaze]

Leaving the Anti-Vaccine Movement
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I can’t tell you how I became pro-vaccine without first telling you how I became anti-vaccine.

Picture 74When my oldest daughter was about four months old, I discovered “crunchy” parenting. I entered a world full of cloth diapers, “intactivism,” and home birth. I made a lot of new friends who shared my beliefs about peaceful attachment parenting, and I started to notice a trend – many of these same friends also didn’t vaccinate. I discussed it one day with a real-life friend, who told me I should look up vaccine ingredients, read the package inserts, and check out the adverse events reported on VAERS.

So I did a Google search for “vaccine ingredients” and was shocked by what I found. Could there really be all of these nasty-sounding ingredients in vaccines, I wondered? I went to the CDC’s website and found package inserts. I didn’t understand much of what I read, but it did sound pretty scary. I looked up the prevalence of diseases today and realized that nobody had even caught diphtheria for years! I was confused, and my daughter’s six-month check up was coming up. I opted out of vaccines then, telling the doctor I wanted to do some more research before we went any further.

However, my research was very skewed. I was going into it with preconceived ideas – my anti-vaccine friends had put ideas into my head, such as not trusting government websites. I was forced to rely on whatever I could find while Googling, which were often websites like Mercola or whale.to. I even started “liking” anti-vaccine pages on Facebook – pages that I now understand masquerade as “information” centers. I got added to Facebook groups like “Great Mothers Questioning Vaccines.”

Even though all of my supposed research was coming from non-scientific sources, I trusted it.

Then I got pregnant with our second child and planned a home birth. My midwives were very supportive of my anti-vaccination stance. My second daughter was born at home, and for months I prided myself on the fact that she had never been “injected with anything.” I even bragged about how we didn’t take her to the doctor until she was six months old.

My friends, too, were supportive. They reassured me that my breast milk was protecting her from disease, and how she was a shining example of a healthy unvaccinated child. I was proud to have a sense of community with other mothers who shared my views and who cheered me on.

However, I’ve always considered myself a skeptic, and I began to notice how some of my anti-vaccine friends believed in some other things that I found, well, questionable. For example, several of my anti-vaccine friends posted about chemtrails pretty frequently. I’d never heard of chemtrails, so I did some research and quickly discovered it was just a conspiracy theory easily explained away by people who actually understood how airplane contrails work. I also noticed that skeptic pages I followed occasionally made jabs about “anti-vaxxers” and homeopaths.

It was a slow process, but I gradually began to question my own anti-vaccine views. I stopped posting about vaccines for several months and began seeking out real science that would show me the truth, either way. What I found shocked me.

Anti-vaccine people had told me countless times that safety studies on vaccines were extremely lacking, but I was able to pull up hundreds of studies with just a few PubMed searches. They had told me that better hygiene and sanitation had been responsible for the massive decreases in disease, not vaccines—but I was able to find graphs and information from the CDC proving this wasn’t the case.

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg

I was told vaccines overload the immune system. “Too many too soon” was burned into my brain, but then I learned things like this:

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/229292c4ddfab96ba8feadda0af2d6f7.jpg

In the end, I couldn’t continue to deny the science. It’s hard to believe now how easily I bought into everything I was hearing from the anti-vaccine crowd. It seems extremely obvious now: doctors aren’t evil, scientists aren’t trying to kill your kids with toxins, and vaccine researchers aren’t just trying to scam you out of your money.

When my youngest daughter was ten months old, I had finally made up my mind. It was time to start vaccinating again. It had been a two-year journey that took me from one end of the spectrum to the other, but at least this time I’ve got science on my side. Both of my girls are in the process of catching up on their vaccines now. They’re getting immunizations in the same order they would have gotten them at a younger age.

Both handled their first round of shots just fine, without even a fever. If it weren’t for the tiny bruises on their legs, you wouldn’t even know they’d just gotten shots. I’m proud to be a vaccinating mom now, to be giving my children the best shot at a healthy life.

The fallout from changing my views was pretty extreme. Within two weeks of “coming out” on Facebook about my new stance, I lost over 50 friends. People who had cheered me on and supported me through my home birth, who had told me countless times that I was an awesome mother and an inspiration, just dropped me like we’d never been friends at all. I was removed from groups and blocked by people I didn’t even know. I was accused of being brainwashed and told that my girls were going to get autism and have terrible reactions. It hurt.

I now view the anti-vaccine movement as a sort of cult, where any sort of questioning gets you kicked out, your crunchy card revoked. I was even told I couldn’t call myself a natural mother anymore, because vaccines are too unnatural. That’s fine. I just want to be the best parent I know how to be, and that means always being open to new information and admitting when I’m wrong.

I was terribly wrong about vaccines, and I’m thankful my girls never caught anything. I feel like I’m being more true to myself, now, as well. I’m not blindly following what others say, just because we agree on a few other things. I’m putting my trust in science, and discovering who were really my friends all along.

[Serpo]

http://il3.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2256583/thumb/1.jpg


apart from this Im not going to bother, you are doing a good enough job yourself of making an ass of yourself......................


main reason docs vaccinate is that they cant cure anything........I repeat ,all those diseases are curable by the correct colloidal silver made from
http://http://biophysica.com/content/ (http://http://biophysica.com/content/)

any one can buy one of these.....

[Serpo]

https://ronabbass.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/vaccine-dees-illustration.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMI5Iq7jL7axwIVBCKmCh1cBA_l&url=https%3A%2F%2Fronabbass.wordpress.com%2F2015%2 F04%2F17%2Frefuse-vaccines-no-pay-for-australian-citizens-foreshadowing-us-policies%2F&psig=AFQjCNHiJNo8bN-aAJ7l1finKomtYMYFPQ&ust=1441356654804538)http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/snake2_dees.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMI0c-cib7axwIVgeKmCh3CyAzM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.activistpost.com%2F2012%2F03% 2F11-big-surprises-inside-vaccines.html&psig=AFQjCNFUTQxe-b4cD0ntWvTKF_Y8FPcvPw&ust=1441356648045906)http://i2.wp.com/osnetdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dees-billgates_who_vaccine_africa.jpg?resize=720%2C576 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMIpra8h77axwIV4zemCh2dEAFz&url=http%3A%2F%2Fosnetdaily.com%2F2014%2F11%2Fexpo sed-un-vaccines-in-kenya-used-to-sterilize-women%2F&psig=AFQjCNGsqw8d5n57cl1HvagBtkKNyVHqcg&ust=1441356644374935)http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS76MCB_LfR1gVjDBHG5XeOqDscz65TQ NzKj67c3k76Uast_623 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMI5uychr7axwIVR9qmCh1HlgHh&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjonesreport.com%2Farticle%2F09_09 %2F08dees.html&psig=AFQjCNE4P1uLCBArx9o6oIAdMm3B5jOgJg&ust=1441356641732525)http://chemtrailsplanet.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/vaccine-contains-mercury-dees.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMIw_DQhL7axwIVATimCh3exQbJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fchemtrailsplanet.net%2F2014%2F09% 2F08%2Fwarning-cdc-revealed-lying-about-autism-connected-to-vaccines%2F&psig=AFQjCNFSINMNP4fRnLAVy8M8JY09DyBMnQ&ust=1441356638408954)http://www.sott.net/image/s11/225458/full/dd395_Baby_Vaccine_TEXT_3.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&ved=0CAkQjRwwAGoVChMIxvnvgb7axwIVx-OmCh1L3A7j&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sott.net%2Farticle%2F298607-Authoritarians-at-work-Texas-clinic-refusing-to-accept-un-vaccinated-patients&psig=AFQjCNGWfmOT_LOOe2PGxT5ccS-A4SM52A&ust=1441356632614239)

[aeondaze]

Thats all your left with isn't it?

Carpet bombing the thread with no analytic purport whatsoever. A shamfull display of internet gangbanging because your afraid your arguments won't stand on their own mertis.

Again Serpo you are guilty of projecting, text book stuff.

You guys don't really have any arguments left do you, hahaha :rolleyes:

The only thing that appears to drive you is paranoia and hate.

Sucks to be you....;D

[aeondaze]

The beautiful thing is serpo, you shoot yourself in the foot.

If you're behave like this with your daughter in regards to vaccination, its easy to see why she would chose to vaccinate her child because you come across as TOTALLY unhinged...

I'll leave you with that for now, I got far more important things to do for the time being...just remember, you might like to think that I've been marginalised here, but the truth is, you've been marginalised by your own daughter. Which is worse?

The truth hurts, doesn't it? :(??

[Shami-Amourae]

The beautiful thing is serpo, you shoot yourself in the foot.

If you're behave like this with your daughter in regards to vaccination, its easy to see why she would chose to vaccinate her child because you come across as TOTALLY unhinged...

I'll leave you with that for now, I got far more important things to do for the time being...just remember, you might like to think that I've been marginalised here, but the truth is, you've been marginalised by your own daughter. Which is worse?

The truth hurts, doesn't it? :(??


Jews want the goyim to take vaccines. You're wishing his daughter is a good goy like you?

http://www.backfromnature.org/2015/04/anti-semitism-in-anti-vaccine-movement.html
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/anti-semitic-hate-speech-antivaccine-cult/

http://i0.wp.com/www.skepticalraptor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/nazi-vaccine-meme-photo-e1434475531182.jpg?resize=500%2C372

https://8ch.net/pol/src/1441268692476.jpg

[Shami-Amourae]

Translation:

"The Vaccination"
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1ll8xrI68QQ/VUGD1B1JCoI/AAAAAAAAA3k/J1IKHGXaAvs/s1600/impfung.jpg

"It seems to me that poison and Jews seldom do good things."



Vaccines are a Jewish invention to kill off the goys and make money doing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGCnISdHuEE

[Serpo]

Half of All Children Will Be Autistic by 2025, Warns Senior Research Scientist at MIT

29 (http://www.anh-usa.org/half-of-all-children-will-be-autistic-by-2025-warns-senior-research-scientist-at-mit/#comments) By anh-usa (http://www.anh-usa.org/author/anh-usa/) on  December 23, 2014 GMO News (http://www.anh-usa.org/category/campaigns/real-food-safety/gmo-news/)
Why? Evidence points to glyphosate toxicity from the overuse of Monsanto’s Roundup herbicide on our food.
For over three decades, Stephanie Seneff, PhD, has researched biology and technology, over the years publishing over 170 scholarly peer-reviewed articles (http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/). In recent years she has concentrated on the relationship between nutrition and health, tackling such topics as Alzheimer’s, autism, and cardiovascular diseases, as well as the impact of nutritional deficiencies and environmental toxins on human health.

At a conference last Thursday, in a special panel discussion about GMOs, she took the audience by surprise when she declared, “At today’s rate, by 2025, one in two children will be autistic.” She noted that the side effects of autism closely mimic those of glyphosate toxicity, and presented data showing a remarkably consistent correlation (http://themindunleashed.org/2014/10/mit-researchers-new-warning-todays-rate-half-u-s-children-will-autistic-2025.html) between the use of Roundup on crops (and the creation of Roundup-ready GMO crop seeds) with rising rates of autism. Children with autism have biomarkers indicative of excessive glyphosate, including zinc and iron deficiency, low serum sulfate, seizures, and mitochondrial disorder.


A fellow panelist reported (http://thecompletepatient.com/article/2014/june/9/its-everywhere-mit-scientist-presents-dire-portrait-damage-monsantos-roundup) that after Dr. Seneff’s presentation, “All of the 70 or so people in attendance were squirming, likely because they now had serious misgivings about serving their kids, or themselves, anything with corn or soy, which are nearly all genetically modified and thus tainted with Roundup and its glyphosate.”


Dr. Seneff noted the ubiquity of glyphosate’s use. Because it is used on corn and soy, all soft drinks and candies sweetened with corn syrup and all chips and cereals that contain soy fillers have small amounts of glyphosate in them, as do our beef and poultry since cattle and chicken are fed GMO corn or soy. Wheat is often sprayed with Roundup just prior to being harvested, which means that all non-organic bread and wheat products would also be sources of glyphosate toxicity. The amount of glyphosate in each product may not be large, but the cumulative effect (especially with as much processed food as Americans eat) could be devastating. A recent study (http://news.discovery.com/human/health/autism-pesticide-link-found-in-calif-study-140623.htm) shows that pregnant women living near farms where pesticides are applied have a 60% increased risk of children having an autism spectrum disorder.


Other toxic substances may also be autism-inducing. You may recall our story on the CDC whistleblower (http://www.anh-usa.org/autism-vaccine-cover-up-latest-updates/) who revealed the government’s deliberate concealment of the link between the MMR vaccine (for measles, mumps, and rubella) and a sharply increased risk of autism, particularly in African American boys. Other studies now show (http://www.anh-usa.org/genetics-environmental-chemical-soup-autism/) a link between children’s exposure to pesticides and autism. Children who live in homes with vinyl floors, which can emit phthalate chemicals, are more likely to have autism. Children whose mothers smoked were also twice as likely to have autism. Research now acknowledges that environmental contaminants such as PCBs, PBDEs, and mercury can alter brain neuron functioning even before a child is born.


This month, the USDA released a study (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/19/us-usda-pesticides-report-idUSKBN0JX2FZ20141219) finding that although there were detectable levels of pesticide residue in more than half of food tested by the agency, 99% of samples taken were found to be within levels the government deems safe, and 40% were found to have no detectable trace of pesticides at all. The USDA added, however, that due to “cost concerns,” it did not test for residues of glyphosate. Let’s repeat that: they never tested for the active ingredient in the most widely used herbicide in the world.“Cost concerns”? How absurd—unless they mean it will cost them too much in terms of the special relationship between the USDA and Monsanto. You may recall the revolving door between Monsanto and the federal government, with agency officials becoming high-paying executives—and vice versa! Money, power, prestige: it’s all there. Monsanto and the USDA love to scratch each others’ backs. Clearly this omission was purposeful.


In addition, as we have previously reported (http://www.anh-usa.org/autism-diagnoses-have-risen/), the number of adverse reactions from vaccines can be correlated as well with autism, though Seneff says it doesn’t correlate quite as closely as with Roundup. The same correlations between applications of glyphosate and autism show up in deaths from senility.


Of course, autism is a complex problem with many potential causes. Dr. Seneff’s data, however, is particularly important considering how close the correlation is—and because it is coming from a scientist with impeccable credentials. Earlier this year, she spoke at the Autism One conference and presented many of the same facts; that presentation is available on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a52vAx9HaCI).
Monsanto claims that Roundup is harmless to humans. Bacteria, fungi, algae, parasites, and plants use a seven-step metabolic route known as the shikimate pathway (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/06/09/monsanto-roundup-herbicide.aspx) for the biosynthesis of aromatic amino acids; glyphosate inhibits this pathway, causing the plant to die, which is why it’s so effective as an herbicide. Monsanto says humans don’t have this shikimate pathway, so it’s perfectly safe.


Dr. Seneff points out, however, that our gut bacteria do have this pathway, and that’s crucial because these bacteria supply our body with crucial amino acids. Roundup thus kills beneficial gut bacteria, allowing pathogens to grow; interferes with the synthesis of amino acids including methionine, which leads to shortages in critical neurotransmitters and folate; chelates (removes) important minerals like iron, cobalt and manganese; and much more.


Even worse, she notes (http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/glyphosate/Groton_Seneff.pdf), additional chemicals in Roundup are untested because they’re classified as“inert,”yet according to a 2014 study in BioMed Research International, these chemicals are capable of amplifying the toxic effects of Roundup hundreds of times over.


Glyphosate is present in unusually high quantities in the breast milk of American mothers, at anywhere from 760 to 1,600 times the allowable limits in European drinking water. Urine testing shows Americans have ten times the glyphosate accumulation as Europeans.


“In my view, the situation is almost beyond repair,” Dr. Seneff said after her presentation. “We need to do something drastic.”


http://www.anh-usa.org/half-of-all-children-will-be-autistic-by-2025-warns-senior-research-scientist-at-mit/




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyzlt6nVd1E

[Shami-Amourae]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyzlt6nVd1E

I had to stop listening to that half-way through. The guy keeps saying "It's the Nazis" and weeps about the holocaust.

[Ares]

And yet the subject invokes some of the most nasty and vitriolic responses this forum ever seen, riddle me that!

Where was MY vitriolic response to YOU with this debate?


It seems the subject sends most of you guys into a blind rage. You want to be left alone to do as you please but refuse to grant that to others, this vitriolic display in these posts are a classic example of irrational hatred, why can't you see that?

Of course I see it, but I was nothing but cordial during this discussion.


You make the claim that others can do as they wish, but as soon as someone might profess faith in vaccinations you want to tear them down, if you think everyone should be able to make their own choices why do you feel the need to resort to that kind of base behavior?

I want to tear them down? Where? I just posted studies and evidence that don't exactly line up with pro-vaccine arguments. How is that tearing down? Your question could be asked of you, or don't you think people should be able to do as they please?


And they think their vitriol and name calling is a sign of "winning an argument". Its so funny yet so appalling, and really exemplifies their irrational hatred of anyone who might have an opinion of their own.

Which I have not done in this thread, why the diversion?


Thats not winning, thats beeing a fuckwit...:rolleyes:

Which I have not done in this thread, so again why the diversion and complaining about something I had no part in?

[Serpo]

I had to stop listening to that half-way through. The guy keeps saying "It's the Nazis" and weeps about the holocaust.


well listen again ,its quite astounding............


not everyone has it 100% including me,you , but everyone has some part to play

[Serpo]

Where was MY vitriolic response to YOU with this debate?



Of course I see it, but I was nothing but cordial during this discussion.



I want to tear them down? Where? I just posted studies and evidence that don't exactly line up with pro-vaccine arguments. How is that tearing down? Your question could be asked of you, or don't you think people should be able to do as they please?



Which I have not done in this thread, why the diversion?



Which I have not done in this thread, so again why the diversion and complaining about something I had no part in?




In OZ its called being a
http://www.casinogamesonnet.com/images/slots/loose-cannon-slot-logo.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0CAcQjRxqFQoTCNm4udzk2scCFcaepgodE8wP2A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcasinogamesonnet.com%2F%3Fgame%3D loose-cannon%26id%3D765&psig=AFQjCNFbNh0EqhevywBnQXqxB-tI56No9w&ust=1441366976162920)








watch it Aeondaze or you get it............


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K1SppuYYpZw/Tyd8Kd_KzxI/AAAAAAAAAx4/kv5bEeBJ4rk/s1600/LooseCannon.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwobluefish.blogspot.com%2F2012%2 F01%2Fbirth-of-loose-cannon.html&psig=AFQjCNFbNh0EqhevywBnQXqxB-tI56No9w&ust=1441366976162920)

[collector]

Former Merck Employee Targeted For Harassment, Intimidation After Speaking Out Against Forced Vaccinations


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxvZO2chj4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enzU9JSXidI

[collector]

Leaving the Anti-Vaccine Movement
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I can’t tell you how I became pro-vaccine without first telling you how I became anti-vaccine.

Picture 74When my oldest daughter was about four months old, I discovered “crunchy” parenting. I entered a world full of cloth diapers, “intactivism,” and home birth. I made a lot of new friends who shared my beliefs about peaceful attachment parenting, and I started to notice a trend – many of these same friends also didn’t vaccinate. I discussed it one day with a real-life friend, who told me I should look up vaccine ingredients, read the package inserts, and check out the adverse events reported on VAERS.

So I did a Google search for “vaccine ingredients” and was shocked by what I found. Could there really be all of these nasty-sounding ingredients in vaccines, I wondered? I went to the CDC’s website and found package inserts. I didn’t understand much of what I read, but it did sound pretty scary. I looked up the prevalence of diseases today and realized that nobody had even caught diphtheria for years! I was confused, and my daughter’s six-month check up was coming up. I opted out of vaccines then, telling the doctor I wanted to do some more research before we went any further.

However, my research was very skewed. I was going into it with preconceived ideas – my anti-vaccine friends had put ideas into my head, such as not trusting government websites. I was forced to rely on whatever I could find while Googling, which were often websites like Mercola or whale.to. I even started “liking” anti-vaccine pages on Facebook – pages that I now understand masquerade as “information” centers. I got added to Facebook groups like “Great Mothers Questioning Vaccines.”

Even though all of my supposed research was coming from non-scientific sources, I trusted it.

Then I got pregnant with our second child and planned a home birth. My midwives were very supportive of my anti-vaccination stance. My second daughter was born at home, and for months I prided myself on the fact that she had never been “injected with anything.” I even bragged about how we didn’t take her to the doctor until she was six months old.

My friends, too, were supportive. They reassured me that my breast milk was protecting her from disease, and how she was a shining example of a healthy unvaccinated child. I was proud to have a sense of community with other mothers who shared my views and who cheered me on.

However, I’ve always considered myself a skeptic, and I began to notice how some of my anti-vaccine friends believed in some other things that I found, well, questionable. For example, several of my anti-vaccine friends posted about chemtrails pretty frequently. I’d never heard of chemtrails, so I did some research and quickly discovered it was just a conspiracy theory easily explained away by people who actually understood how airplane contrails work. I also noticed that skeptic pages I followed occasionally made jabs about “anti-vaxxers” and homeopaths.

It was a slow process, but I gradually began to question my own anti-vaccine views. I stopped posting about vaccines for several months and began seeking out real science that would show me the truth, either way. What I found shocked me.

Anti-vaccine people had told me countless times that safety studies on vaccines were extremely lacking, but I was able to pull up hundreds of studies with just a few PubMed searches. They had told me that better hygiene and sanitation had been responsible for the massive decreases in disease, not vaccines—but I was able to find graphs and information from the CDC proving this wasn’t the case.

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg

I was told vaccines overload the immune system. “Too many too soon” was burned into my brain, but then I learned things like this:

http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/229292c4ddfab96ba8feadda0af2d6f7.jpg

In the end, I couldn’t continue to deny the science. It’s hard to believe now how easily I bought into everything I was hearing from the anti-vaccine crowd. It seems extremely obvious now: doctors aren’t evil, scientists aren’t trying to kill your kids with toxins, and vaccine researchers aren’t just trying to scam you out of your money.

When my youngest daughter was ten months old, I had finally made up my mind. It was time to start vaccinating again. It had been a two-year journey that took me from one end of the spectrum to the other, but at least this time I’ve got science on my side. Both of my girls are in the process of catching up on their vaccines now. They’re getting immunizations in the same order they would have gotten them at a younger age.

Both handled their first round of shots just fine, without even a fever. If it weren’t for the tiny bruises on their legs, you wouldn’t even know they’d just gotten shots. I’m proud to be a vaccinating mom now, to be giving my children the best shot at a healthy life.

The fallout from changing my views was pretty extreme. Within two weeks of “coming out” on Facebook about my new stance, I lost over 50 friends. People who had cheered me on and supported me through my home birth, who had told me countless times that I was an awesome mother and an inspiration, just dropped me like we’d never been friends at all. I was removed from groups and blocked by people I didn’t even know. I was accused of being brainwashed and told that my girls were going to get autism and have terrible reactions. It hurt.

I now view the anti-vaccine movement as a sort of cult, where any sort of questioning gets you kicked out, your crunchy card revoked. I was even told I couldn’t call myself a natural mother anymore, because vaccines are too unnatural. That’s fine. I just want to be the best parent I know how to be, and that means always being open to new information and admitting when I’m wrong.

I was terribly wrong about vaccines, and I’m thankful my girls never caught anything. I feel like I’m being more true to myself, now, as well. I’m not blindly following what others say, just because we agree on a few other things. I’m putting my trust in science, and discovering who were really my friends all along.


Totally ridiculous article, trying to show that people who refuse to vaccinate act like a cult or thugs. If this woman is even a real person, her knowledge on the subject of vaccines and chemtrails is pretty limited to say the least. Any friends she may have lost were probably people who only share her view (at the time) of being anti-vaccine, so of course they would abandon her. It's like me being friends with a guy who fights for the second Amendment, and then tomorrow starts calling for gun control. Of course I'd delete him from my social media circle (if I even had one).

The entire story seems fake and looks like something put out by the drug companies with hopes of resonating with those people who are on the fence about vaccines.

[singular_me]

simple associations that aeon wont address, I caught him remaining silent about those issues...

geoengineering, bioengineering, military cartel, banking cartel, global oligarchy, FDA fallacies, Big Pharma, abortion Inc, agenda 21, etc... a real death cult.

so why on earth would one think that vaccines are safe when they obviously already manipulate human DNA on a such broad scale???

anyone seeing the trend here and being rational, will NOT accept being vaccinated

organic food consumption increase is linked to a growing awareness of GMOs... it is not related to vaccines.

[collector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjzHisZj6PU#!

[collector]

http://vaclib.org/intro/present/njpage6.gif

[collector]

HIV/AIDS and SV40 virus introduced into USA by Merck Pharmaceutical Company
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3tkqouLEA

From the top vaccine scientist at Merck, Dr. Hilleman,

[singular_me]

it wouldnt surprise me if aeon was working on the development of vaccines and that his feelings are torn apart . hence tries to convince himself that he doing the right thing.

another 94 pages to go aeon...

[aeondaze]

watch it Aeondaze or you get it......

Don't take your daughters marginalisation of your outrageous and psychotic beliefs out on me. I'm just the messenger here.:)*#*

[singular_me]

that is why YOU call the anti vaccine stance propaganda... and insane anybody disagreeing with you

another 92 page to go


Don't take your daughters marginalisation of your outrageous and psychotic beliefs out on me. I'm just the messenger here.:)*#*

[Shami-Amourae]

that is why YOU call the anti vaccine stance propaganda... and insane anybody disagreeing with you

another 92 page to go

Because our side has all the wealthy Elite corporate backing.
:rolleyes:

[aeondaze]

Where was MY vitriolic response to YOU with this debate?

Where did I accuse you of a vitriolic response? READ it again....


Of course I see it, but I was nothing but cordial during this discussion.

Right, so you place your comments in vacuum far away from the clear vitriol the anti vaccine crowd is incapable of controlling...I see


I want to tear them down? Where? I just posted studies and evidence that don't exactly line up with pro-vaccine arguments. How is that tearing down? Your question could be asked of you, or don't you think people should be able to do as they please?

READ it again, where do I mention you specifically, i used the word "they". Your comprehension is really lacking here, which brings into question your interpretation of all this material that supposedly claims vaccines are detrimental.

You seem to have a natural tendency to take things out of context and I would argue the same is true for your opinions on vaccinations.

BTW, you made a claim that whooping cough vaccines have not changes since the 50's and thats BULLSHIT....


MERCK hasn't changed the whooping cough strain used to make the vaccine since the 50's.

http://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/features/whooping-cough-rising-despite-new-vaccine



Why Whooping Cough Is Rising Despite a New Vaccine
By Lorie Parch
WebMD Feature
Reviewed by Sandra Adamson Fryhofer, MD

When a new whooping cough vaccine was introduced in the late 1990s, there were hopes for a lower infection rate. But there's been a puzzling trend: a spike in new cases.

More than 48,000 Americans had whooping cough in 2012 -- a 50-year high. The disease, also known as pertussis, brings on fits of coughing that can last for weeks in adults and older kids. For babies, especially very young ones, the symptoms can be life-threatening.

What's behind the increase in whooping cough? Experts aren't sure, but they have some theories:

The newer pertussis vaccine does not protect against disease for as long as the previous version.
Parents who don't let their kids get vaccines may be creating more opportunities for whooping cough outbreaks.
Even vaccinated people may still be carriers and spread whooping cough without realizing it.

The Newer Vaccine Doesn't Last as Long

Before 1997, the whooping cough vaccine used in the U.S. was a type known as a "whole cell" vaccine. It used all parts of the bacteria that causes whooping cough, explains Litjen Tan, PhD, chief strategy officer of the Immunization Action Coalition.

The vaccine was effective, but it had side effects, including sore arms, crying, fussiness, anxiety, and occasional seizures.

The newer vaccine, known as an "acellular" vaccine, only contains parts of the whooping cough bacteria. It has fewer side effects than the old version, Tan says.

At first, "the data showed that acellular worked as well as whole cell," Tan says. "But as time went on, immunity just started waning in children who got the acellular vaccine."

In other words, the new vaccine doesn't seem to protect people as long as the old one. And as the protection of the vaccine wears off, the number of whooping cough cases may rise.

Are you a big enough person to admit that your claim was false?

[aeondaze]

Anyhow, since most of you are incapable of any cordial discourse on the subject, I'll close it and ADD to it whenever I get the time and I will DEBUNK the mess that you have carpet bombed out of pure ignorant and psychotic spite.

Its my thread, I'll do EXACTLY AS I LIKE...hahaha

[aeondaze]

Carpet bombing a thread is NOT a victory.

This thread isn't closed, consider it restricted....:rolleyes:

I know it pisses a lot of you off because you resort to such puerile tactics to try and "shout" your opponent down

Not one of you are capable of conducting the discourse on a fair and level playing field, that the reason the thread is "RESTRICTED"

Anyhow, most of this is because serpo is incapable of dealing with the fact the her daughter has shunned her and her crazy theories and projects her bitterness onto me.

You know the funny part is, Serpo's arguments are so bad that even her daughter rejects them! lol sucks to be you!