Anti-Vaccine thread started by another member

[Ares]

Why Whooping Cough Is Rising Despite a New Vaccine
By Lorie Parch
WebMD Feature
Reviewed by Sandra Adamson Fryhofer, MD

When a new whooping cough vaccine was introduced in the late 1990s, there were hopes for a lower infection rate. But there's been a puzzling trend: a spike in new cases.

More than 48,000 Americans had whooping cough in 2012 -- a 50-year high. The disease, also known as pertussis, brings on fits of coughing that can last for weeks in adults and older kids. For babies, especially very young ones, the symptoms can be life-threatening.

What's behind the increase in whooping cough? Experts aren't sure, but they have some theories:

The newer pertussis vaccine does not protect against disease for as long as the previous version.
Parents who don't let their kids get vaccines may be creating more opportunities for whooping cough outbreaks.
Even vaccinated people may still be carriers and spread whooping cough without realizing it.

The Newer Vaccine Doesn't Last as Long

Before 1997, the whooping cough vaccine used in the U.S. was a type known as a "whole cell" vaccine. It used all parts of the bacteria that causes whooping cough, explains Litjen Tan, PhD, chief strategy officer of the Immunization Action Coalition.

The vaccine was effective, but it had side effects, including sore arms, crying, fussiness, anxiety, and occasional seizures.

The newer vaccine, known as an "acellular" vaccine, only contains parts of the whooping cough bacteria. It has fewer side effects than the old version, Tan says.

At first, "the data showed that acellular worked as well as whole cell," Tan says. "But as time went on, immunity just started waning in children who got the acellular vaccine."

In other words, the new vaccine doesn't seem to protect people as long as the old one. And as the protection of the vaccine wears off, the number of whooping cough cases may rise.

Are you a big enough person to admit that your claim was false?


LOL You're kidding me right????? There is NO comparison between whole cell, or acellular vaccine and the strain used to make the vaccine. They are not even in the same ballpark.

Are you a big enough person to admit that you are wrong with that claim?

I'll admit, I was wrong on the STRAIN comment to make the vaccine:

Strains used and year isolated:

Strain B1834 Year isolated: 1999
Strain B1836 Year isolated: 1999
Strain B1865 Year isolated: 2000
Strain B1868 Year isolated: 2000
Strain B1878 Year isolated: 2000
Strain B1917 Year isolated: 2000
Strain B1920 Year isolated: 2000
Strain B2030 Year isolated: 2001

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/15/8/pdfs/08-1511.pdf
Page 2

Whole-cell vaccine = Contains whole inactive forms of the bacteria / virus.
Acellular vaccine = Contains cellular material of the bacteria / virus but no complete cells.

[collector]

Thanks Ares, nothing like compiling and posting information, only to have the original poster lock out the thread like some petulant child.
He must enjoy wasting other people's time and effort. At least the result is that now you've started a thread that can be a one stop go to for information on why not to vaccinate so people can make informed decisions. Thanks again Ares ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYxvZO2chj4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enzU9JSXidI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjzHisZj6PU

[collector]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3tkqouLEA


http://vaclib.org/intro/present/njpage6.gif

[Ares]

Anytime, and no I won't close the thread. :)

[singular_me]

memorable quote by aeon before closing his thread on the topic:


Anyhow, since most of you are incapable of any cordial discourse on the subject, I'll close it and ADD to it whenever I get the time and I will DEBUNK the mess that you have carpet bombed out of pure ignorant and psychotic spite.

Its my thread, I'll do EXACTLY AS I LIKE...hahaha

[Ponce]

75 years old and never taking any shots and still alive, eat good and stay away from people...simple.....I do get cordosone for the pain in my arms and it works........

V

[Dogman]

75 years old and never taking any shots and still alive, eat good and stay away from people...simple.....I do get cordosone for the pain in my arms and it works........

V

The military did not pump you up with every vac,s known to man ? And at the time they told us of the possible danger's but gave them to us anyway!

Something does not compute my friend!

I still have my military vaccination card and the scars on my arm from all of the dam shots they gave us for protection from the micro creepy,s that one can can catch from every nook and cranny in the world and ether kill or ruin ones life!

And they were not shy doing it!

Sent from my Nexus 7

[Serpo]

Combination of GMOs and vaccinations I now believe to be cause of autism rise.


Kinda like a one two punch




http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/10/27/do-gmo-foods-cause-autism-read-about-the-gmo-crops-autism-connection/

Similar Digestive Disorders are found in both GMO Fed Livestock and Autistic Children

About 70% of children diagnosed with autism are found to have digestive disorders. Symptoms include inflammation, intestinal permeability, and imbalances in the intestinal flora (bacterial makeup). These same symptoms also appear in animals fed GMO feed. If GMO foods cause an imbalance in gut flora and this leads to neurological problems, then it is likely GMO foods cause autism, too.
One of the earliest indications that GMOs might cause problems in the small intestine was a 1999 study published in the Lancet entitled: “Effect of diets containing genetically modified potatoes expressing Galanthus nivalis lectin on rat small intestine (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533866).” After rats were fed GMO potatoes for 10 days, their stomach lining cells and intestines were significantly altered.



Why Might GMO Foods Cause Autism? What are They? http://healthy-family.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/gluten-and-corn-free.jpg (http://healthy-family.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/gluten-and-corn-free.jpg)The antisocial lab animals in GMO crop studies were fed the same GMO corn and GMO soy eaten by people in the U.S. Both crops contain bacterial genes which allow them to survive being sprayed with herbicide. A herbicide is a weed control product designed to kill plants. When used, higher residues of toxic weed killer end up inside our foods.
In addition, some GMO corn crops have a more disturbing characteristic. GMO corn contains genes artificially inserted by scientists to produce an insect-killing poison called Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) toxin. It is in every cell of the GMO corn crop—and in every bite your child consumes. Common sense tells us GM food has to be harmful. Additional study might prove GMO foods cause autism, but funding is tough. Monsanto, the largest biotech seed company in the United States and Canada claims their GMO crops are harmless. They are deeply rooted in the farming industry in the U.S., and they’ve lobbied Congress for laws to protect their agri seed monopoly. But we are learning that their safety claims are false. Citizens need to get behind the scientists that want to expose the truth. We also need to actively boycott GMO foods.
Where’s The Proof GMO Foods Cause Autism? http://healthy-family.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/GMO-Crops-Autism.jpg (http://healthy-family.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/GMO-Crops-Autism.jpg)
There is a marked correlation between increases in autism and increases in the amount of GMO foods entering our food supply, causing experts to question if digestive problems from eating GMO foods cause autism.

[Ponce]

Pluto?....... I was given only one shot each time that I went overseas.......I forgot what it was, and I refuse any other known shot. Remember that I was in from 59-66 and at that time there wasn't that many shots. While working as a civilian I never took any.

I do remember getting a shot in Cuba on my back with a 4" size needle, and another that left a scar on my arm.

V

[Dogman]

Pluto?....... I was given only one shot each time that I went overseas.......I forgot what it was, and I refuse any other known shot. Remember that I was in from 59-66 and at that time there wasn't that many shots. While working as a civilian I never took any.

I do remember getting a shot in Cuba on my back with a 4" size needle, and another that left a scar on my arm.

V 1966 ? Well things did change....a bunch by the time I went in 1970.

They probably gave you a distemper shot, to protect the natives !

;D

[aeondaze]

Combination of GMOs and vaccinations I now believe to be cause of autism rise.



http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/10/27/do-gmo-foods-cause-autism-read-about-the-gmo-crops-autism-connection/

There is a marked correlation between increases in autism and increases in the amount of GMO foods entering our food supply, causing experts to question if digestive problems from eating GMO foods cause autism.

You forgot organic foods too...

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ScreenHunter_04-Jan.-07-23.11.jpg

Why do you accept the "correlation" between GMO's and autism yet reject the "correlation" between organic foods and autism?

Here's a hint: Because you have no idea about statistical analysis and instead are driven by fear and paranoia.

[aeondaze]

Anytime, and no I won't close the thread. :)

No? Thats right because you got your stooges there to back you up with your spurious claims, how convenient....:D

[ximmy]

No? Thats right because you got your stooges there to back you up with your spurious claims, how convenient....:D

.
Hi aeondaze.. did you just get up from sleepy time?
http://media.philly.com/images/kid_sleepy.jpg

[aeondaze]

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/03/29/the-intellectual-dishonesty-of-the-vacci/

The intellectual dishonesty of the “vaccines didn’t save us” gambit

Posted by Orac on March 29, 2010

If there’s one thing about the anti-vaccine movement I’ve learned over the last five or so years, it’s that it’s virtually completely immune to evidence, science, and reason. No matter how much evidence is arrayed against it, it always finds a way to spin, distort, or misrepresent it to combat the evidence. Not that this is any news to readers of this blog or other skeptical blogs that make combatting anti-vaccine propaganda one of its major themes, but it bears repeating often. It also bears repeating and emphasizing examples of just the sort of disingenuous and even outright deceptive techniques used by promoters of anti-vaccine pseudoscience to sow fear and doubt about vaccines among parents. These arguments may seem persuasive to those who have little knowledge about science or epidemiology. Sometimes they even seemed somewhat persuasive to me; that is, at least until I actually took the time to look into them.

One example of such a myth is the claim that “vaccines didn’t save us.” The anti-vaccine website Vaccine Liberation has archived a set of graphs purporting to show that the death rates of several vaccine-preventable diseases, including whooping cough, diptheria, measles, and polio were falling before the vaccines for each disease were introduced. The website quotes Andrew Weil:

Scientific medicine has taken credit it does not deserve for some advances in health. Most people believe that victory over the infectious diseases of the last century came with the invention of immunisations. In fact, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough, etc, were in decline before vaccines for them became available – the result of better methods of sanitation, sewage disposal, and distribution of food and water.

Bill Maher has said similar things about vaccines, and the “vaccines didn’t save us” gambit is a staple of anti-vaccine websites, being spread and parroted hither and yon throughout the blogosphere by credulous anti-vaccinationists. One particularly idiotic blogger wrote:

The mythology surrounding vaccines is still pervasive, the majority of the population still believes, in faith like fashion, that vaccines are the first line of defense against disease. The true story is that nutrition and psychological/emotional health are the first line of defense against disease.

Vaccines are a concoction of chemical adjuvants and preservatives coupled with virus fragments and have clearly been implicated in the astounding rise in neurological disorders around the world, yet the ‘popular’ media has embedded itself as a spokesperson for the pharmaceutical cartel and simply does not report in any responsible way the real situation.

Ah, yes, the truly brain dead “toxins” gambit. Of course, it is true that better sanitation is a good thing and has decreased the rate of transmission of some diseases for which sanitation can do so, many infectious diseases are transmitted person-to-person through the air from aerosolized drops of saliva from coughs and sneezes or from being deposited on objects that people touch frequently, like doorknobs and other fomites.

The “vaccines didn’t save us” strategy is a distortion, as I will show. The best way to demonstrate this is to go on to the very first website that currently shows up on a Google search for “vaccines didn’t save us.” Although the post is from November, it’s the main post that’s been spreading this lie since then. Entitled Proof That Vaccines Didn’t Save Us, it’s one of the most breathtakingly spectacularly intellectually dishonest posts that I’ve ever seen. I say that not because it uses a common anti-vaccine distortion, but rather because it ups the ante by adding a new one clearly designed to address the criticism of the old one. It hides it in plain sight, too, which is why I have to give the blogger props for sheer chutzpah. Actually, I have to give props to the person who devised the graphs used in this post, Raymond Obomsawin, PhD. They represent the classic anti-vaccine lie, combined with some very clever cherry picking. I won’t take them all on in this post. Maybe I’ll take some of them on in a future post. What I will do, however, is to take on the first several, because they represent a common anti-vaccine theme that is very similar to the one archived by the Vaccine Liberation website.

In fact, let’s look at the Vaccine Liberation page first. Notice that there are six graphs, four of which are for vaccine-preventable diseases for which widespread vaccination was undertaken, two for which it was not. All of them show decreasing death rates from the diseases. Wow! It seems like slam dunk evidence, doesn’t it? Vaccines didn’t save us! After all, death rates were declining years before the vaccine, and they were declining for the diseases that didn’t even need a vaccine!

Death rates.

Here’s the problem. It’s not surprising that death rates were declining before introduction of the vaccines. Medicine was improving. More importantly, supportive care was improving. For example, take the case of polio. Before the introduction of the iron lung and its widespread use, for example, if a polio patient developed paralysis of the respiratory muscles, he would almost certainly die. The iron lung allowed such patients to live, some for decades. No doubt improved nutrition also played a role as well. However, if you want to see the impact of vaccines, take a look at this graph from the CDC of measles incidence, not death rates:

i-f6905b6b8f63d7f3bb8681fd75515a67-Measles_incidence-cdc.gif

Similar results were seen most recently from several other vaccines, including the Haemophilus influenza type B vaccine, as the CDC points out:

Hib vaccine is another good example, because Hib disease was prevalent until just a few years ago, when conjugate vaccines that can be used for infants were finally developed. (The polysaccharide vaccine previously available could not be used for infants, in whom most cases of the disease were occurring.) Since sanitation is not better now than it was in 1990, it is hard to attribute the virtual disappearance of Haemophilus influenzae disease in children in recent years (from an estimated 20,000 cases a year to 1,419 cases in 1993, and dropping) to anything other than the vaccine.

In the post to which I referred, the most intellectually dishonest graph is this one:

i-665bde018572420f2a9a8fe6b71a0e7c-Measles-thumb-450x594-43696.jpg

Note how this graph, unlike all the other graphs used to make the claim that “vaccines didn’t save us” actually uses incidence data, in this case from Canada from 1935 to 1983. I was immediately suspicious of this graph, though. The reason should be obvious; the decline in measles incidence is far too smooth. Measles incidence typically varies greatly from year to year. Fortunately, in his chutzpah, Obomsawin included a link to the actual source of the graph. Naturally, I couldn’t resist checking it out, and I found that the link leads to the Canadian Immunization Guide section on the measles vaccine. And this is the actual graph from which Obomsawin allegedly extracted his data:
i-a4547faab26bf00c7bd8960a69e7c58e-MeaslesCanada-thumb-450x296-43699.gif

Note how Obomsawin left out a section of ten years (1959 to 1968) during which measles was not nationally reportable. Also note how he’s, to be charitable, cherry picked the years to produce the impression of a smoothly declining measles incidence from 1935 to 1958. As I said, it doesn’t get much more intellectually dishonest than that, nor does it get much more intellectually dishonest than this description of Obomsawin:

He has produced academically and/or professionally over eighty-five (85) articles, reports, policy documents, presentations, and publications.

A search of Pubmed reveals only one peer-reviewed publication from 1978, and it’s only a commentary. In any case, apparently served as Director National Office of Health Development of the National Indian Brotherhood (AFN); Founding Chairman of NIB’s National Commission Inquiry on Indian Health; Executive Director in the California Rural Indian Health Board; Supervisor of Native Curriculum, Government of the Yukon Territory; and Evaluation Manager – Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada. None of these are scientific positions. More tellingly, he is “currently engaged with government funding as Senior Researcher relative to establishing a Public Sector Policy on Traditional Medicine in Canada.” My translation? He’s somehow managed to get a government grant to try to promote “traditional medicine” in Canada. Apparently, the Canadian government has its own problems with government money going to promote unscientific and pseudoscientific nonsense of the type that NCCAM promotes. In any case, besides Obomsawin’s disingenuous and intellectually bankrupt distortions of incidence data used to serve his apparently anti-vaccine agenda, he has no qualifications to speak of with regard to science or epidemiology that I can find.

It also turns out that Dr. Obomsawin has some other–shall we say?–unconventional beliefs as well. For instance, he is approvingly featured on that aggregator of all things quackery and woo, Whale.to, where he expresses anti-vaccine views, HIV/AIDS denialism, and admiration for Royal Rife. So what we have here is a woo-meister using cherry picked points on a graph to give a false impression that the measles vaccine was not responsible for the dramatic decline in measles incidence in Canada in the 1960s. Quelle surprise!

Another rebuttal to the idea that vaccines didn’t reduce the incidence of the diseases against which they were designed comes from the simple observation that, as vaccine uptake falls, the disease vaccinated against returns. Always. This is described by the CDC quite well:

Finally, we can look at the experiences of several developed countries after they let their immunization levels drop. Three countries – Great Britain, Sweden, and Japan – cut back the use of pertussis vaccine because of fear about the vaccine. The effect was dramatic and immediate. In Great Britain, a drop in pertussis vaccination in 1974 was followed by an epidemic of more than 100,000 cases of pertussis and 36 deaths by 1978. In Japan, around the same time, a drop in vaccination rates from 70% to 20%-40% led to a jump in pertussis from 393 cases and no deaths in 1974 to 13,000 cases and 41 deaths in 1979. In Sweden, the annual incidence rate of pertussis per 100,000 children 0-6 years of age increased from 700 cases in 1981 to 3,200 in 1985. It seems clear from these experiences that not only would diseases not be disappearing without vaccines, but if we were to stop vaccinating, they would come back.

The United Kingdom is an excellent illustration of this trend. Back in the mid-1990s, it declared measles as under control, thanks to the vaccine. Then came Andrew Wakefield and a credulous, sensationalistic British press to spread his message that the MMR vaccine causes autism. The result was that measles came roaring back in the U.K. to the point that two years ago measles was declared endemic again there.

The Vaccine Liberation graphs and the even more deceptive graphs produced by “Dr.” Obomsawin are typical of anti-vaccine arguments. First, they contain enough of a grain of truth to them to sound plausible. After all, better nutrition and better sanitation have decreased the incidence of many infectious diseases. But they were not enough. Indeed, part of the reason we vaccinated against some diseases is because sanitation wasn’t enough. Was sanitation so much worse in the late 1980s before the Hib vaccine was introduced than it is now? No. Was it probably even that much worse in the 1960s, when the measles vaccine was introduced? Probably not. Yet, such is the myth that the anti-vaccine movement would have parents believe. Such is the intellectually dishonest nonsense they promote.

Truly, they are the pro-disease movement, more than anything else.

ADDENDUM: Steve Novella has pointed out that there is a better version of the graph in this reference, and he was kind enough to send it to me, given that, for whatever reason, my university doesn’t have a subscription to the relevant journal:
i-216374d910c4a36793787896003bce23-measlescanada-thumb-450x312-43766.jpg

(Click for full-sized version.)

Note how this graph looks at raw case numbers and shows 40,000 cases the year before the ten year interruption in the data. All in all, it’s a much clearer representation of the data than the first graph, showing a clear drop that occurred during the ten year period, in the middle of which the measles vaccine was introduced. It also shows another obvious drop in measles incidence later on in the 1990s, when the two-dose measles vaccine program was started. As for why it appears that there is a steep dip in the first graph before the ten year gap, that appears to be an artifact. There is no data for 1959, but the line appears to go to a datapoint at 1959 or 1960. My guess is that whoever made the graph simply set the value for 1959 to . In other words, the graph is a rather poor representation of the data, and the Canadian government would do well to replace that graph on its website with something more like the second graph, which makes the point much more clearly

[collector]

Aeondaze should stay in his own sandbox - the one he claims to own, the one he created and so aggressively wants to control.

[aeondaze]

Aeondaze should stay in his own sandbox - the one he claims to own, the one he created and so aggressively wants to control.

hahaha, oh boo hoo,

Maybe you should take one of these and harden the fuck up...

http://carbonaddiction.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/concrete-pills.png

[aeondaze]

.
Hi aeondaze.. did you just get up from sleepy time?

No, I just got the kids off to school unlike a lonely, barren and bitter wench. :rolleyes:

http://biteintheapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pentecost-25-Andrew-Wyeth-christinas_world-e1383581045921.jpg

But anyhow, good morning GSUS token spinster!

[Santa]

http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/specific-vaccines/an-admission-that-pro-vaccinators-dont-want-to-make/

An Admission that Pro-Vaccinators Don’t Want to Make

January 8, 2013 By Vaccine Choice Canada

Though billions of people on our planet are ignorant of the dangers, the evidence of the dangers of vaccines has been overflowing – thanks to independent researchers, concerned parents, and a growing number of converts within allopathic medicine. This post provides just a brief collage of a few snippets about some childhood vaccines and so-called vaccine-preventable diseases.
If one dose is good, why not mix six and inject them all at once?

In 2003 the German Paul Ehrlich Institute reported that from fall 2000 to spring 2003, five children had died within 24 hours of receiving the Hexavac or Infanrix Hexa vaccines. [1] By 2005, the European Medicine Agency (EMEA) de-listed Hexavac as an approved vaccine.[2]

Oddly and separately, in October 2012 the BC Centre for Disease Control and Health Canada endorsed Infanrix Hexa generally, even though maker GlaxoSmithKline issued a voluntary recall of a particular lot of Infanrix Hexa. [3][4]

In fact the BCCDC claimed that “There is no safety risk to anyone who received [the Infanrix Hexa] vaccine.” But what was the basis of the statement made by the BCCDC? On 8 December 2012, the Belgium-based Initiative Citoyenne revealed that GSK knew of data from October 2009 – October 2011 showing 36 infant deaths associated with Infanrix Hexa – including 13 within 24 hours of injection![5]
Do vaccines cause disease and illness?

The acute and long-term injuries and deaths caused by vaccines are published in the Weekly Mortality and Morbidity Report of the American CDC. They are detailed by medical literature like the New England Journal of Medicine, Pediatrics, the Lancet, etc. Medical reports from 1838 found that smallpox vaccination increased both rates of smallpox outbreaks and tuberculosis.[6] Today rates of childhood leukemia, brain cancers, and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma are highest in countries which administer the most vaccines – and do it early.[7] Since 1998 cancer has been the leading cause of disease-related death for American children ages 1-15.[8]

In 2010, California reported a 60-year record high number of pertussis cases – 7195 – which equaled a rate of 19.3 per 100,000 people. However a team of PhDs, MDs, and epidemiologists at the private medical provider Kaiser-Permanente, which has 100% of its 3.2 million enrollees vaccinated against pertussis, found their rate to be 25.7 per 100,000![9] Yes, you read it correctly, Americans with private health insurance, who are regularly and fully vaccinated get pertussis more often than a general population suffering an epidemic. In fact, a statistical comparison shows that the Kaiser-Permanente population has a significantly higher rate of the illness with 99.999999997% certainty.

What is even more remarkable is that the team of researchers at Kaiser-Permanente led by Nicola Klein, MD, PhD, finds that nine years after receiving a DTaP or Tdap shot, a person no longer gets any benefit [sic] from the vaccine. But, although they had an effective vaccination rate of less than 20% and suffered a massive outbreak of pertussis, the entire population of the State of California had a statistically significant lower rate of pertussis illness than a group of insured people who’d received all their shots. Comparing these two populations, we are left to conclude that the odds that pertussis vaccines do not increase pertussis illness are about 1 in 330 million!

If pertussis infection rates of 19.3 per every 100,000 are at epidemic levels, how should we describe the rate of illness of those who are vaccinated, and under a doctor’s care at Kaiser-Permanente? The numbers are clear, as vaccination increases so does disease and death. When will medical professionals and politicians protecting the pharmaceutical companies admit that?

Author, John Calvin Jones, has a JD and a PhD in political science, both earned at the University of Iowa. Among other courses, he teaches statistics, scientific research methods, and quantitative analysis. He has been reading and researching vaccines, the claims of their efficacy, and reports of vaccine injury and toxicity since 2004. His daughter is vaccine-free, has no allergies. She did have German measles and chicken pox (rubella) infections – now she has long-lasting natural immunity. Jones believes that a human immune system free of mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, SV-40, polysorbate 80, etc., is a beautiful thing.

[aeondaze]

[http://vaclib.org/intro/present/njpage6.gif

The graph for measles is intelectually bankrupt...here is one that sets the record straight.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Measles_incidence-cdc-1.png

If the measles graph is incorrect, how many more are a complete fabrication? Probably all of them :rolleyes:

[ximmy]

No, I just got the kids off to school unlike a lonely, barren and bitter wench. :rolleyes:

http://biteintheapple.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pentecost-25-Andrew-Wyeth-christinas_world-e1383581045921.jpg

But anyhow, good morning GSUS token spinster!

Are you certain they are your kids?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/78/07/2f/78072f3fc24aa033f58fb50e0c6d24bb.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

The graph for measles is intelectually bankrupt...here is one that sets the record straight.

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Measles_incidence-cdc-1.png

If the measles graph is incorrect, how many more are a complete fabrication? Probably all of them :rolleyes:

I caught every one of these childhood diseases after vaccinated AND I had side effects. My adopted parents continued with the injections until I was to big for them to bother me with. Every shot I would get sick, really sick. I just wish they got them instead of me so they could compare reality vs what the schools recommended.

[aeondaze]

Are you certain they are your kids?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/78/07/2f/78072f3fc24aa033f58fb50e0c6d24bb.jpg

You bet!

What about your kids?

Oh, thats right...sorry...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-O-S1zMEij0g/Ty7hOKuvBtI/AAAAAAAABmE/9UaDcVUKhM4/s1600/woman-crying.jpeg

[aeondaze]

I caught every one of these childhood diseases after vaccinated AND I had side effects. My adopted parents continued with the injections until I was to big for them to bother me with. Every shot I would get sick, really sick. I just wish they got them instead of me so they could compare reality vs what the schools recommended.

You had POLIO?

Did you have polio?

What about scarlet fever, or Typhoid?

I didn't think so...:|~

[collector]

hahaha, oh boo hoo,

Maybe you should take one of these and harden the fuck up...

http://carbonaddiction.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/concrete-pills.png


Leading by example? - locking a thread down because you're outnumbered or can't address all the information proving you incorrect? boo hoo hoo...
Would love to get into a pissing match with you but don't need to get banned so I'll just put you on the ignore list.
Enjoy the cherished delusions you choose to live with

[aeondaze]

Would love to get into a pissing match with you but don't need to get banned so I'll just put you on the ignore list.

haha, another gutless wonder...:)

[ximmy]

You bet!


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/a1/d8/6ba1d8e884904dbf8a0d6c5f8fbaaedf.jpg

[aeondaze]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/a1/d8/6ba1d8e884904dbf8a0d6c5f8fbaaedf.jpg

Maybe that explains your childless and lonely existence?

Its OK GSUS spinster, you can tell us what daddy did to you.

Certainly explains your twisted Oedipus complex with Book. :rolleyes:

[Ares]

No? Thats right because you got your stooges there to back you up with your spurious claims, how convenient....:D

I've been hammered in other threads that I've started when people disagreed with me. I've never closed them when I was getting my ass handed too me like you did.

[ximmy]

you can tell us what daddy did to you.


Can you tell us what you did to mommy?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/32/2c/03/322c03a683a2e849ceff7c4c488795a4.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

You had POLIO?

Did you have polio?

What about scarlet fever, or Typhoid?

I didn't think so...:|~

allright dicknose, I did get scarlet fever, typhoid, mumps, measles and a miriad of other crap that I wasn't supposed to.

[aeondaze]

I've been hammered in other threads that I've started when people disagreed with me. I've never closed them when I was getting my ass handed too me like you did.

As a comparison?

NOT. EVEN.CLOSE.

Every piss ant two bit poster on this forum piled on the hate and vitriol and deliberately carpet bombed that thread with posts that had already been addressed.

Basically the same information was being recycled but from different sources in different formats. They didn't bother to even vet what they posted which shows a clear disinterest in actually following the topic or even reading what was contained in the thread.

You can cry all you want about me closing a thread, but tough, thats life! :o

[aeondaze]

allright dicknose, I did get scarlet fever, typhoid, mumps, measles and a miriad of other crap that I wasn't supposed to.

Well gues what?

Tough tities, I don't believe you.

So you contracted POLIO?

[Ares]

As a comparison?

NOT. EVEN.CLOSE.

LOL uh huh sure. Apparently you weren't around when I was hyping Bitcoin. That thread went south fast with a good portion of posters piling against me. Yet I never closed it.


Every piss ant two bit poster on this forum piled on the hate and vitriol and deliberately carpet bombed that thread with posts that had already been addressed.

Yet you can't address that your comment was wrong about my strain comment and the acellular production method of making vaccines. If you're going to call everyone a know nothing, at least know the terminology and the technology behind vaccines so you at least have somewhat of an idea of what you are talking about. Mixing up the strain and the acellular technology is kind of a big "opps".


Basically the same information was being recycled but from different sources in different formats. They didn't bother to even vet what they posted which shows a clear disinterest in actually following the topic or even reading what was contained in the thread.

Yet you can't provide a SINGLE scientific study from a source that does not benefit financially from the results. The easy answer is because there isn't one. So who is using the same old recycled material?


You can cry all you want about me closing a thread, but tough, thats life! :o

No tears on this end of the conversation.

[aeondaze]

I'll admit, I was wrong on the STRAIN comment to make the vaccine

And there you have it!

The TRUTH is you didn't even bother to vet the information to see if what you were saying was true, right?

Its clear then that you just say shit even when you don't know if its true, that basically calls into serious question your ability to dissect this subject and sought fact from fiction.

I seriously doubt that you've even have looked into the other side of the argument.

Just like your little Whooping cough vaccine strain statement, you just say and post whatever confirms your delusions, there is NO effort on your part to actually ascertain the truth and that was clear proof.

Sorry, but thats where the rubber meets the road with you anti-vaxers.

[Cebu_4_2]

Well gues what?

Tough tities, I don't believe you.

So you contracted POLIO?

I never said I did Dick Nose! Go read it again fucking jewwad.

[monty]

You had POLIO?

Did you have polio?

What about scarlet fever, or Typhoid?

I didn't think so...:|~

I know 2 people who had polio. One got it from the vaccine.

My siblings and I had chicken pox, mumps and two or three kinds of measles. They were more of an inconvenience than anything. My mother had one hell of a time keeping us indoors. I have been a hell of a lot more ill from the flu than any of those chilhood diseases.

[aeondaze]

LOL uh huh sure. Apparently you weren't around when I was hyping Bitcoin. That thread went south fast with a good portion of posters piling against me. Yet I never closed it.

Yet you can't address that your comment was wrong about my strain comment and the acellular production method of making vaccines. If you're going to call everyone a know nothing, at least know the terminology and the technology behind vaccines so you at least have somewhat of an idea of what you are talking about. Mixing up the strain and the acellular technology is kind of a big "opps".



Yet you can't provide a SINGLE scientific study from a source that does not benefit financially from the results. The easy answer is because there isn't one. So who is using the same old recycled material?

No tears on this end of the conversation.

Yea I wasn't a member at that time but I do vaguely remember it from lurking. I'd been lurking since 2010 when GIM1 was shut down (I'm sure you recall)

Don't question my understanding of the terminology, I know full well about acellular vaccines, I chose to omit the jargon for efficacy, there was NO mix up, any mix up is in your mind alone.

What you said was plain wrong, and you were big enough to admit it, I think thats admirable, honestly.

What you are incapable of doing is looking at the scientific validity of the experiment. It really doesn't matter who funds the research as long as the data is sound, it will stand on its own.

What your saying is "I don't care what the data is, if its funded by a pharmaceutical company I won't believe it" Go on admit thats what you think...:rolleyes:

At the end of the day that kind of thinking is intellectually bankrupt. You ignore the science deliberately based on your own bias and preconceptions and stubbornly refuse to actually look at the data.

[Ares]

And there you have it!

The TRUTH is you didn't even bother to vet the information to see if what you were saying was true, right?

It's whatever you want to see or hear. I've studied the subject at length and nothing ever mentioned the change in strain being used since the vaccine was developed. I'm also human and can admit my errors. The real question is why can't you?


Its clear then that you just say shit even when you don't know if its true, that basically calls into serious question your ability to dissect this subject and sought fact from fiction.

Says the guy who compared acellular technology was a change in bacterial strain.... You just say shit without even knowing what you are talking about. You can't even find a single double blind pacebo controlled study from groups who do not have a financial interest in the benefits of the results. NOT. A. SINGLE. ONE.




I seriously doubt that you've even have looked into the other side of the argument.

I seriously doubt you even have a clue what you are talking about. I didn't have to admit anything as you didn't even have a fucking clue that acellular technology is a process used to make vaccines and not the strain of bacteria itself. I could of played the childish games you do and just call you out for your total ineptitude ignorance, but I didn't and owned up to my mistake. For some reason you can't. Not man enough?


Just like your little Whooping cough vaccine strain statement, you just say and post whatever confirms your delusions, there is NO effort on your part to actually ascertain the truth and that was clear proof.

Take a look in the mirror buddy, take a long hard look in the mirror.


Sorry, but thats where the rubber meets the road with you anti-vaxers.

If you're going to claim we know nothing, at least know what the hell you are talking about. Which you haven't demonstrated on a consistence basis.

[aeondaze]

I never said I did Dick Nose! Go read it again fucking jewwad.

Um, yes you did! :rolleyes:

[Ares]

Yea I wasn't a member at that time but I do vaguely remember it from lurking. I'd been lurking since 2010 when GIM1 was shut down (I'm sure you recall)

Don't question my understanding of the terminology, I know full well about acellular vaccines, I chose to omit the jargon for efficacy, there was NO mix up, any mix up is in your mind alone.

No you don't as you clearly didn't even demonstrate it. Mixing up a manufacturing technology with a bacterial strain is a very good indicator you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

What you said was plain wrong, and you were big enough to admit it, I think thats admirable, honestly.


What you are incapable of doing is looking at the scientific validity of the experiment. It really doesn't matter who funds the research as long as the data is sound, it will stand on its own.

If it did, vaccine companies wouldn't need a shield from being litigated out of business due to damages caused from a vaccine injured child.


What your saying is "I don't care what the data is, if its funded by a pharmaceutical company I won't believe it" Go on admit thats what you think...:rolleyes:

Nope, as the study is bias. Have an independent 3rd party perform a double blind placebo controlled study on vaccine safety and efficiency.


At the end of the day that kind of thinking is intellectually bankrupt. You ignore the science deliberately based on your own bias and preconceptions and stubbornly refuse to actually look at the data.

I've looked at plenty of data and even suffered the results from my ignorance while in the military taking the Anthrax vaccine. When you wake up at night in a cold sweat with your injection site burning like someone put a lighter out on you, joints aching for years because of the auto-immune disease that was kicked into over drive because of the squalene adjuvant then you come back and tell me that they are safe.

Until then, I am entitled to my abject bias as I suffered under the results of being their fucking guinea pig.

[monty]

What you are incapable of doing is looking at the scientific validity of the experiment. It really doesn't matter who funds the research as long as the data is sound, it will stand on its own.

what guarantees the data to be sound? The pharmaceutical company funding the study? Do yo think that there may not be strings attached to the funding? Data can be skewed.

[singular_me]

wasnt most food organic until the late 80s?

organic foods causing autism is absolute BS

wonder where aeon got his degree?

-------------

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidicke.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2Fget-attachment-101.jpg&f=1



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxr-cv-JuI8

[aeondaze]

what guarantees the data to be sound? The pharmaceutical company funding the study? Do yo think that there may not be strings attached to the funding? Data can be skewed.[/COLOR]

RIGOROUS STATISTICAL ANAYLYSIS that controls for confounder variables, is of sufficient sample size to support the hypothesis in question to name a few.

Sure data can be skewed, thats exactly what the anti vaccination crowd do!

If you want good examples of that look at their data, ask some questions and do a bit of reading.

[singular_me]

wasnt most food organic until the late 80s?


RIGOROUS STATISTICAL ANAYLYSIS that controls for confounder variables, is of sufficient sample size to support the hypothesis in question to name a few.

Sure data can be skewed, thats exactly what the anti vaccination crowd do!

If you want good examples of that look at their data, ask some questions and do a bit of reading.

[Santa]

Every piss ant two bit poster on this forum piled on the hate and vitriol and deliberately carpet bombed that thread with posts that had already been addressed.



Aw... those bullies are so mean, Caitlin. But don't worry, I'm sure the scientific establishment fully endorses your right to gender choice.

I just wish they fully endorsed my right to refrain from vaccs. But they don't. There's a full scale media war going on right now, trying to strip our right to refrain from vaccinations. And you, pro-vaccinator, are helping them do it by accusing anti-vaccine parents of child neglect. Smooth move, Einstein.

[Jewboo]

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/07/18/evans_family,0.jpg

You bet! Me and the missus with our three daughters.



You didn't vaccinate your first two?

:)

[aeondaze]

No you don't as you clearly didn't even demonstrate it. Mixing up a manufacturing technology with a bacterial strain is a very good indicator you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Clam down dude. I was wrong.

Oddly enough we we're BOTH wrong. I automatically assumed that the change in vaccination, regardless of whether it was whole or accellular in composition, entailed a change in strain, so far I cannot find any evidence to show which strain is used, its age or if there has ever been a change.

For the time I'll admit that I'm wrong, though I'm still looking for definitive proof.

Claiming that a change in composition fromm whole cell to acellular was a change in strain was incorrect and flaky, I admit it, honestly though, that wasn't my intention. I'm actually incredulous that they haven't changed the strain to keep pace with more virulent and resistant strains that we see in the population today, I was giving them more credit than they deserve, I still find it hard to believe.

I honestly wasn't trying to split hairs on a technicality, nor do I have an inability to comprehend the subtleties, I genuinely believed they would've updated the strain at some point, so far it seems that faith is ill-founded. :(

[Dogman]

I know some here that all their veg's have come out of their gardens and can as they harvest, that do not care or like store boten canned stuff. Plus they raise their own meat, and have done so for generations!

Oldest family I know have been on the same land for over 160 years, and their land is from an original Spanish land grant! And have been on the same land before our Independence or being a state!

To this day they try to avoid going to local stores, except for feed for the critters.

They have their share of family nuts, I do not have any numbers but I suspect it is same as all other's.

Used to buy 1/2 to 1/4 beefs from them and have been gifted with their canned stuff only asking for returning the jars!

Tho I do suspect that something today that is modern compared to the past amongst all the chemicals that we literally Wade through that is in the air, our clothes, our furnisher etc,etc. That did not exist even 50 or so or later and newer ones DO have a major part in a lot of crap people are suffering and dieing because of them!

Sent from my Nexus 7

[aeondaze]

I just wish they fully endorsed my right to refrain from vaccs. But they don't. There's a full scale media war going on right now, trying to strip our right to refrain from vaccinations.

What are you talking about cream puff, where are the boogey men knocking down your door trying to jab you?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/e/e0/Pixel_scared.png/revision/latest?cb=20080207115311

So far you clearly have the right to refrain from vaccination or else they would've bashed down your door and jabbed you but it hasn't happened, right?

Why are you so afraid? man up dude, man up...

[Santa]

What are you talking about cream puff, where are the boogey men knocking down your door trying to jab you?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/e/e0/Pixel_scared.png/revision/latest?cb=20080207115311

So far you clearly have the right to refrain from vaccination or else they would've bashed down your door and jabbed you but it hasn't happened, right?

Why are you so afraid? man up dude, man up...

You need to pull that lab coat off your head, boy, it's suffocating your brain. While you search for RIGOROUS STATISTICAL ANAYLYSIS that controls for confounder variables, the mainstream media, GLOBALLY, is turning anyone who questions the establishment into social terrorists, and YOU'RE HELPING them.

[Dogman]

Fiction is fun, Non-fiction is real, and sadly some get the two confused !

Lmao !

[aeondaze]

the mainstream media, GLOBALLY, is turning anyone who questions the establishment into social terrorists, and YOU'RE HELPING them.

Maybe, I'll admit that. AND your right, they ARE doing that.

The difference between you and I however, is that I try to separate out the issues. Just because your statement is true for the most part is not an argument that vaccines cause autism or they they're trying to kill us with it.

So far there is no proof that vaccines are killing us, you just need to pull your head out of your myopic conspiratorial world to see that, life expectancy has increased and continues to as does childhood mortality rates globally...

https://www.learner.org/courses/envsci/visual/img_lrg/life_expectancy.jpg

http://www.humanosphere.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Under5MortalityWB.png

http://cdn1.globalissues.org/i/children/under5-mortality-rate-1960-2005.png

What about these graphs don't you get or believe?

[Santa]

Maybe, I'll admit that. AND your right, they ARE doing that.

The difference between you and I however, is that I try to separate out the issues. Just because your statement is true for the most part is not an argument that vaccines cause autism or they they're trying to kill us with it.

So far there is no proof that vaccines are killing us, you just need to pull your head out of your myopic conspiratorial world to see that, life expectancy has increased and continues to as does childhood mortality rates globally...

https://www.learner.org/courses/envsci/visual/img_lrg/life_expectancy.jpg

http://www.humanosphere.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Under5MortalityWB.png

http://cdn1.globalissues.org/i/children/under5-mortality-rate-1960-2005.png

What about these graphs don't you get or believe?

Actually, your stupid graphs are bullshit designed by social engineers to sway morons. Life expectancy is going down, not up.


Life expectancy of Americans fell for the first time in 15 years, as the nation’s oldest adults died from heart disease, cancer and respiratory ailments, according to a report by the National Center for Health Statistics.

Based on data from 2008, the latest available, life expectancy in the U.S. fell 36.5 days from 2007 to 77.8 years, according to the report released today. Life expectancy is calculated by taking the death rates from the U.S. population in a specific year and figuring out the average number of years remaining for a person born in 2008.

Children born in 2008 lost a little over a month of expected life. The drop in expectancy was largely the effect of increased mortality among the oldest adults -- those at least 85 -- and a rise in age-related ailments such as Alzheimer’s, high blood pressure, kidney disease, flu and pneumonia, according to the report. Infant mortality declined, as did deaths among all age groups under 85.

“It’s hard for us to tell exactly what’s driving this,” said Arialdi Minino, a statistician at the health center and one of the report’s authors. The number of older people who died “has been going up consistently, and in this particular year, there was a little more of that than we usually see.”

The drop in life expectancy was mostly in the white population, which fell 73 days, while the rate among black women was unchanged at 76.8 years, and rose among black men to an all-time high of 70.2 years. The infant mortality rate fell 2.4 percent to 6.59 deaths for every 1,000 births in 2008.

[aeondaze]

Actually, your stupid graphs are bullshit designed by social engineers to sway morons. Life expectancy is going down, not up.

Hahaha, thats not the sound of winning, thats the sound of a losing asshole.

This 'little' tidbit of information pertains ONLY to Americans, maybe you need to get your head out of your own ass, a tendency I fear Americans are prone to bouts of on occasion, only then you can remove that taste of shit from your mouth...;D

You got nothing, your shitty little response is proof, cheers dickhead. \uu\

[Ares]

Clam down dude. I was wrong.

Thanks for admitting it, see it's not difficult. :) We're all human and capable of mistakes.


Oddly enough we we're BOTH wrong. I automatically assumed that the change in vaccination, regardless of whether it was whole or accellular in composition, entailed a change in strain, so far I cannot find any evidence to show which strain is used, its age or if there has ever been a change.

Yeah why I initially said the strain hasn't been changed. I can't find anything about the strains used. The CDC paper I quoted in a previous post just said the strain was isolated and what year it was isolated, but there is nothing in the document (that I have been able to find anyway) that discusses if those strains were used in the manufacturing process of the vaccine.


For the time I'll admit that I'm wrong, though I'm still looking for definitive proof.

Good luck! Seriously, I mean it as I can't find anything definitive about the strains used in vaccine production. It's been well documented that the Bordetella pertussis bacteria has evolved since the 50's, because if it hadn't the whooping cough vaccine would still be just as effective as it was when it was first introduced. There are lot of articles and studies showing that the efficiency of the vaccine has waned. MERCK is even facing a lawsuit from former employees who stated that MERCK lied to the government and over stated the MMR vaccines effectiveness. (http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2015/06/08/merck-is-accused-of-stonewalling-over-effectiveness-of-mumps-vaccine/)


Claiming that a change in composition fromm whole cell to acellular was a change in strain was incorrect and flaky, I admit it, honestly though, that wasn't my intention. I'm actually incredulous that they haven't changed the strain to keep pace with more virulent and resistant strains that we see in the population today, I was giving them more credit than they deserve, I still find it hard to believe.

I don't, as I you can tell I do not have a lot of faith in vaccine manufacturers. There isn't a single study showing the safety of Formaldehyde (also a known carcinogen) being injected into the blood stream or muscle tissue yet it is a large component of vaccines during manufacturing and suspension of bacteria and viruses. The FDA just says "well it's a small amount and your body makes some Formaldehyde during normal metabolic function so it's safe." The body also makes H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) during normal metabolic function and I wouldn't advise injecting H2O2 either.

[Santa]

Thanks for admitting it, see it's not difficult. :)
Good luck! Seriously, I mean it as I can't find anything definitive about the strains used in vaccine production. It's been well documented that the Bordetella pertussis bacteria has evolved since the 50's, because if it hadn't the whooping cough vaccine would still be just as effective as it was when it was first introduced. There are lot of articles and studies showing that the efficiency of the vaccine has waned. MERCK is even facing a lawsuit from former employees who stated that MERCK lied to the government and over stated the MMR vaccines effectiveness. (http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2015/06/08/merck-is-accused-of-stonewalling-over-effectiveness-of-mumps-vaccine/)



Specific ingredients are proprietary and heavily protected under patent laws and national/international security laws, are they not???, and even if you were able to break them down under independent lab conditions, if you made the findings public you'd likely be litigated straight into Guantanamo.

I'm afraid the "public" (if there is such a thing anymore), is stuck guessing what's in vaccines.

[Ares]

Specific ingredients are proprietary and heavily protected under patent laws and national/international security laws, are they not???, and even if you were able to break them down under independent lab conditions, if you made the findings public you'd likely be litigated straight into Guantanamo.

I'm afraid the "public" (if there is such a thing anymore), is stuck guessing what's in vaccines.

The specific ingredients are protected by patent law, but they are listed on any vaccine insert. However what's not listed is the specific bacterial strain used to make the vaccine. I made the assumption since I couldn't find any data stating differently that they are using the same bacterial strain since the early 50's.

I later found a CDC paper detailing different bacterial strains of the same bacteria, which prove in and of itself that the bacterial strain is mutating (evolving) which would indicate that the vaccine effectiveness would wane.

That still goes back to the original question, are the vaccine manufacturers combining the bacterial strains to increase effectiveness? Considering that 99.5% of the children were vaccinated yet 4 who caught whooping cough in a recent outbreak tells me that the vaccine manufacturers are not including the newer strains. I might also add that the 4 who caught the disease were also all up to date on their vaccines.

Check this article out from a recent Whooping cough outbreak where I got the 99.5% vaccination rate from:

http://www.ksbw.com/news/pertussis-outbreak-at-monterey-park-school/31881324

So if you have 99.5% of the population vaccinated, how exactly could whooping cough be infecting them and spreading? That leaves 1 or 2 conclusions. 1.) The vaccine doesn't work, or is losing its effectiveness. 2.) Heard immunity DOES NOT WORK and is a complete myth. 99.5% is a very high number, and is well above the required threshold to have gained "herd immunity".

herd immunity threshold for Pertussis 92–95%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

[aeondaze]

So if you have 99.5% of the population vaccinated, how exactly could whooping cough be infecting them and spreading? That leaves 1 or 2 conclusions. 1.) The vaccine doesn't work, or is losing its effectiveness. 2.) Heard immunity DOES NOT WORK and is a complete myth. 99.5% is a very high number, and is well above the required threshold to have gained "herd immunity".

I'm coming round to the notion that the current vaccine for Pertussis is ineffective. It appears to me that the combination of acellular vaccines, outdated strains and insufficient vaccination numbers/rates are taking their toll. Yet whole cell vaccines for Pertussis are a bitch I hear, weeks of pain at the injection site etc.

One would think they would at least update the strain and include acellular segments of the current resistant mutations, that would be a start but again maybe they have concerns about introducing antibiotic resistant strains more widely in the population. I dunno.

???

[singular_me]

all he can do is resorting to insults.... there you have it, aeon is in absolute denial of every monopoly run scams... , especially agenda 21.

organic foods causing autism, while UNTIL the 80s much of the food was still organic. But he surely wont try to find a chart from the early 1900s to show that cancer rate was extremely low.

life expectancy chart is too bogus as it is offered with the courtesy of big pharma... cancer, diabetes, heart diseases, etc are skyrocketing like never before



Hahaha, thats not the sound of winning, thats the sound of a losing asshole.

This 'little' tidbit of information pertains ONLY to Americans, maybe you need to get your head out of your own ass, a tendency I fear Americans are prone to bouts of on occasion, only then you can remove that taste of shit from your mouth...;D

You got nothing, your shitty little response is proof, cheers dickhead. \uu\

[aeondaze]

there you have it, aeon is in absolute denial of every monopoly run scams...

Can you please quiet down in the peanut gallery, the adults here are trying to have a discussion...

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/200068409-001-young-woman-throwing-popcorn-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=YlGqnuL%2BYL8iBWzmXlvzWZQ837Q7a5Q%2BQt%2Fq4sfLPm dtPZV7LSrcyn6uNoPOBgHn%2Bj63Me95myUwdVSqpcDD8A%3D% 3D

[singular_me]

having a discussion while you resort to insults... you are the one initiating insults all the way.

this thread is just another example among many



Can you please quiet down in the peanut gallery, the adults here are trying to have a discussion...

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/200068409-001-young-woman-throwing-popcorn-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=YlGqnuL%2BYL8iBWzmXlvzWZQ837Q7a5Q%2BQt%2Fq4sfLPm dtPZV7LSrcyn6uNoPOBgHn%2Bj63Me95myUwdVSqpcDD8A%3D% 3D

[aeondaze]

having a discussion while you resort to insults... you are the one initiating insults all the way.

this thread is just another example among many

Hey, I'm not the one who was recently banned :rolleyes:

Your posts aren't contributing anything of worth to the discussion by the way...

[gunDriller]

the basic concept of vaccination is sound, in some cases.

e.g. a black widow spider bite. in some parts of the country, it's very likely that a child who plays
outdoors will be bitten. that bite will be life-threatening.

why not give them a tiny amount (1/6 of 1/1000 of the 6 micrograms of a typical bite = 1 billionth of a gram, 1/6000 the typical bite ), if it will give them immunity to a bite they have about 1/10 chance of getting ?


having received the larger amount, i am now immune to a black widow spider bite.

[aeondaze]

the basic concept of vaccination is sound, in some cases.

e.g. a black widow spider bite. in some parts of the country, it's very likely that a child who plays
outdoors will be bitten. that bite will be life-threatening.

why not give them a tiny amount (1/6 of 1/1000 of the 6 micrograms of a typical bite = 1 billionth of a gram, 1/6000 the typical bite ), if it will give them immunity to a bite they have about 1/10 chance of getting ?


having received the larger amount, i am now immune to a black widow spider bite.

Neurotoxins are a bit different from my undestanding. You can build up and immunity to them but apparently it takes a lot of repeated exposures. There are reports of people that have had several snake bites donating blood which was used as an anti-venom successfully, so the premise behind it is somewhat sound.

[Ares]

I'm coming round to the notion that the current vaccine for Pertussis is ineffective. It appears to me that the combination of acellular vaccines, outdated strains and insufficient vaccination numbers/rates are taking their toll. Yet whole cell vaccines for Pertussis are a bitch I hear, weeks of pain at the injection site etc.

Yep had whole cell when I was a kid, doctor even warned my mom that my arm would be sore for a good week or so, and it definitely was.


One would think they would at least update the strain and include acellular segments of the current resistant mutations, that would be a start but again maybe they have concerns about introducing antibiotic resistant strains more widely in the population. I dunno.

???

I think it has more to do on cost. Take the flu vaccine for example. The flu virus is a mutating machine and it leaves manufacturers a year to make a viable vaccine. But here's the rub, the virus mutates so quickly, that they have to GUESS which strain will be the one that breaks out into the human population and starts spreading.

The Pertussis bacteria does not mutate that quickly thankfully, and they SHOULD be able to make a vaccine and include the new strain. But you're also correct that some of the newer strains could include new abilities such as Antibiotics resistance which would not be something you would spread in the wild.

The idea behind vaccines I support, if they can make it safer by not having Polysorbate-80, Aluminum hydroxide, Formaldehyde, Thimerosal (still found in flu vaccines) MRC-5 (Human Diploid cells from aborted fetus in 1966) WI-38 (Human Diploid cells from aborted fetus in 1964.)

You could make a vaccine with just Saline, but it would have a shelf life measured in hours... Maybe that's the way to go in the future? But it's going to require significant advancements in vaccine technology to make them safer and more effective.

[Cebu_4_2]

Page 11:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm101580.pdf

[aeondaze]

The idea behind vaccines I support, if they can make it safer by not having Polysorbate-80, Aluminum hydroxide, Formaldehyde, Thimerosal (still found in flu vaccines) MRC-5 (Human Diploid cells from aborted fetus in 1966) WI-38 (Human Diploid cells from aborted fetus in 1964.)

You could make a vaccine with just Saline, but it would have a shelf life measured in hours... Maybe that's the way to go in the future? But it's going to require significant advancements in vaccine technology to make them safer and more effective.

I was under the impression Thimerosol had been removed from all childhood vaccines, its a rather archaic preservative. Aluminium Hydroxide and formaldehyde I don't really know about there concentration in said vaccines but polysorbate-80 is simply an emulsifier derived from oleic acid (like found in olive oil, I'm sure you know). Its a pretty safe compound actually which is found in a lot of foods for example.

I still don't get why they specifically contain aborted fetuses, I know it sounds medieval and all but maybe thats how they 'culture' the vaccine; they need to have some medium with which to do that I guess. If Its a choice between pigs and baboons or human origin, I know which I'd prefer.

Saline is probably in there as well however, you need to emulsify it hence the polysorbarte-80 and somehow preserve it. There are naturally derived preservatives out there though, obvious ones being ascorbic and citric acid but there are plenty of more exotic plant based ones, I looked into it a few years ago for a friend that wanted to start a business selling natural baby foods.

It would sound insane to a lot around here but I think you could easily formulate a more 'natural' albeit shorter shelf life vaccination, in fact I'm sure of it. I've done a lot of formulating for commercial products in the past though never for pharmacological purposes.

[Ares]

I was under the impression Thimerosol had been removed from all childhood vaccines, its a rather archaic preservative. Aluminium Hydroxide and formaldehyde I don't really know about there concentration in said vaccines but polysorbate-80 is simply an emulsifier derived from oleic acid (like found in olive oil, I'm sure you know). Its a pretty safe compound actually which is found in a lot of foods for example.

Nope Thimerosal is still in the flu vaccine, and get this. They still push for pregnant woman to get the flu vaccine, and if you look at the insert the vaccine pamphlet even says that the flu vaccine has been untested in pregnant woman. We do know that mercury can penetrate the blood brain barrier as well as the placenta. When my wife was pregnant with our first daughter the doctor pushed her to get a flu vaccine. I said no, that's not going to happen. I said you recommend she not consume tuna during her pregnancy because of the risk of mercury, but recommended her to take a flu vaccine which contains Thimerosal which is mercury? So you advocate not consuming it, yet see no problem injecting it.. I just got a blank stare like she never made the connection.


I still don't get why they specifically contain aborted fetuses, I know it sounds medieval and all but maybe thats how they 'culture' the vaccine; they need to have some medium with which to do that I guess. If Its a choice between pigs and baboons or human origin, I know which I'd prefer.

They culture the bacteria / viruses in chicken eggs. It's why if you are allergic to eggs they say do not take a vaccines. The only thing I've been able to find on Human Diploid cells in vaccine production is that Human Diploid Cells provide a substrate for virus propagation. Usually used in more complex viruses as Human Diploid Cells are not used in every vaccine.


It would sound insane to a lot around here but I think you could easily formulate a more 'natural' albeit shorter shelf life vaccination, in fact I'm sure of it. I've done a lot of formulating for commercial products in the past though never for pharmacological purposes.

I agree, and if the ingredients were safer, I most likely would vaccinate my children. The science behind it is sound, the ingredients used in their production and storage are not. Formaldehyde is used in embalming and cheap vodka.

[Jerrylynnb]

Ares says, "The science behind it is sound..."

Why? Is that a proclamation of faith? Blind faith? Can you appreciate the immense complexity of biological systems, in microscopic life forms, and, even more so, in humans? The idea that mere humans, even these learned and scholarly employees of the pharmaceutical industry, can wrap their minds around the full complexity of biological systems to the point that they can be trusted to bypass our natural defenses and inject their concoctions directly into our blood streams, is BLIND FAITH in its most gullible form.

Let them stand ready to be fully responsible for ANY harm you fall prey to AFTER their injections, without having to prove anything, except, a) you took their injections, and, then b) you fell ill. Lets see if they have that much confidence in the slime they dream up for you, and those you love and are responsible for, to take directly into your blood stream. Figure on waiting a long time for that one, eh?

[Ares]

Ares says, "The science behind it is sound..."

Why? Is that a proclamation of faith? Blind faith? Can you appreciate the immense complexity of biological systems, in microscopic life forms, and, even more so, in humans? The idea that mere humans, even these learned and scholarly employees of the pharmaceutical industry, can wrap their minds around the full complexity of biological systems to the point that they can be trusted to bypass our natural defenses and inject their concoctions directly into our blood streams, is BLIND FAITH in its most gullible form.

No it isn't. The idea to immunize one self with a weaker form of the virus or bacteria (cowpox vs smallpox as an example) trains the adaptive immune response to recognize the invading virus / bacteria and be able to mount a response before the virus / bacteria takes hold and possibly kills the host. Why I said the science behind it is sound, the ingredients and practice are not. Vaccine immunity wanes, and after my research into it I believe its because its not natural immunity. Vaccines only target the adaptive immune response, not the perimeter (skin stomach, nasal passages etc.)


Let them stand ready to be fully responsible for ANY harm you fall prey to AFTER their injections, without having to prove anything, except, a) you took their injections, and, then b) you fell ill. Lets see if they have that much confidence in the slime they dream up for you, and those you love and are responsible for, to take directly into your blood stream. Figure on waiting a long time for that one, eh?

Why don't you read the previous 6 pages before you make that comment as you'll see I am not advocating vaccination. I have not had a vaccine since I was in the military and my kids have not had a single vaccine in their life. But to deny the science behind vaccination is to deny the 300 years mankind has been experimenting with immunology.

[Cebu_4_2]

Page 11:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm101580.pdf

Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting. Because these events are reported voluntarily from a population of uncertain size, it is not always possible to reliably estimate their frequencies or to establish a causal relationship to components of Tripedia vaccine.2

In the German case-control study and US open-label safety study in which 14,971 infants received Tripedia vaccine, 13 deaths in Tripedia vaccine recipients were reported. Causes of deaths included seven SIDS, and one of each of the following: enteritis, Leigh Syndrome, adrenogenital syndrome, cardiac arrest, motor vehicle accident, and accidental drowning. All of these events occurred more than two weeks post immunization.2 The rate of SIDS observed in the German case-control study was 0.4/1,000 vaccinated infants. The rate of SIDS observed in the US open-label safety study was 0.8/1,000 vaccinated infants and the reported rate of SIDS in the US from 1985-1991 was 1.5/1,000 live births.34 By chance alone, some cases of SIDS can be expected to follow receipt of whole-cell pertussis DTP35 or DTaP vaccines.
Additional Adverse Reactions:
•
As with other aluminum-containing vaccines, a nodule may be palpable at the injection sites for several weeks. Sterile abscess formation at the site of injection has been reported.3,36
•
Rarely, an anaphylactic reaction (ie, hives, swelling of the mouth, difficulty breathing, hypotension, or shock) has been reported after receiving preparations containing diphtheria, tetanus, and/or pertussis antigens.3
•
Arthus-type hypersensitivity reactions, characterized by severe local reactions (generally starting 2-8 hours after an injection), may follow receipt of tetanus toxoid.
•
A few cases of peripheral mononeuropathy and of cranial mononeuropathy have been reported following tetanus toxoid administration, although available evidence is inadequate to accept or reject a causal relation.37
•
A review by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) found evidence for a causal relationship between tetanus toxoid and both brachial neuritis and Guillain-Barré syndrome.37
•
A few cases of demyelinating diseases of the CNS have been reported following some tetanus toxoid-containing vaccines or tetanus and diphtheria toxoid-containing vaccines, although the IOM concluded that the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship.37

[Jerrylynnb]

Ares and I agree wholeheartedly that vaccines are to be avoided (I didn't mean to imply otherwise).

Where we disagree is whether or not "...the 300 years mankind has been experimenting with immunology..." constitutes good science. I consider vaccination studies to be akin to voodoo, but a lot more expensive and potentially harmful.

I have come to this sentiment because I realize that nobody, not even the very best of our medical geniuses, have come any where near mastering the complexities of the human body. What they are doing when they come up with a new vaccine, is, "experimenting" with whoever trusts their doctor enough to let him poke it in their veins.

[Serpo]

The polio vaccine is causing the new polio September 5, 2015 11:30 am EDT 1 Comment (https://www.intellihub.com/the-polio-vaccine-is-causing-the-new-polio/#disqus_thread)
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https://www.intellihub.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/7170561482_42b80180a7_z.jpg
Army Medicine (https://www.flickr.com/photos/armymedicine/)/Flickr By Aaron Dykes | Truthstream Media (http://truthstreammedia.com/) Yes, the vaccines are causing the problem. The authorities know it. It is admitted. This is not conspiracy theory, but sad fact.
The system is willing to break a few eggs and ruin lives in order to achieve their global vaccination agenda – all while they insist that vaccines are both safe and effective. To say otherwise – even in the face of admitted facts – is pure heresy.
A few years ago, I stumbled upon a big dirty secret that is harming tens of thousands of children. It was being reported overseas, but ignored by the mainstream media.
Doctors in India tracking problems inside the nation’s health system found a huge spike in young children who were crippled after receiving the oral polio vaccine. I wrote (http://www.infowars.com/paralysis-cases-spike-in-wake-of-bill-gates-polio-vaccination-effort-in-india/) at the time:
While polio has statistically disappeared from India, there has been a huge spike in cases of non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP)– the very types of crippling problems it was hoped would disappear with polio but which have instead flourished from a new cause.
There were 47,500 cases of non-polio paralysis reported in 2011, the same year India was declared “polio-free,” according to Dr. Vashisht and Dr. Puliyel. Further, the available data shows that the incidents tracked back to areas were doses of the polio vaccine were frequently administered… Related studies in India have already demonstrated that polio vaccines are the leading cause of polio paralysis (http://www.infowars.com/polio-vaccines-now-the-1-cause-of-polio-paralysis/).
That’s more than 47,000 children crippled and permanently disabled by the vaccine – not the disease!
However, this problem was largely ignored while vaccine pushers – literally in overkill mode – were praised for nearly ‘eradicating’ polio.
Now, this problem is cropping up in many other countries, too.
At this point in time, with only a handful of cases of polio worldwide, the vaccine has become literally more dangerous than the disease.
The oral polio vaccine is ruining lives.
According to the Washington Post, polio has returned to Europe for the first time in five years – but now in a mutated form that even the mainstream media admits was caused by the vaccine itself. The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/09/02/outbreak-of-rare-mutated-poliovirus-in-ukraine-leaves-two-children-paralyzed/) reports:
Advertisement

Poliovirus has returned to Europe after a five year reprieve, paralyzing a 4-year-old and 11-year-old in the Ukraine, the World Health Organization said Wednesday.

The strain responsible, vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 or cVDPV… is a rare, mutated form of the virus that comes from the vaccine itself. Oral polio vaccines contain a weakened form of the virus that activates an immune response in the body so that it builds up antibodies to protect itself. But it takes some time for this to happen, and meanwhile the virus replicates in the intestines and can be excreted by the person immunized and can spread to others in the community.
[…] the vaccine-virus can circulate for long time, 12 months or longer, and genetically change into a more virulent form that can paralyze.
Authorities with the World Health Organization (WHO) are concerned that there is a high risk this mutated strain will continue to spread in and around Ukraine and to its neighbors in Poland, Romania, Slovakia and Hungary near where the incidents occurred.
Other confirmed cases of vaccine-derived polio have been recently reported in India (http://truthstreammedia.com/2013/06/13/indian-baby-contracts-vaccine-derived-polio-virus/) as well as Madagascar and South Sudan (http://www.who.int/csr/don/14-november-2014-polio/en/). This is a significant problem.

What should be particularly alarming – and upsetting – and telling – is that oral polio vaccines were discontinued in the West more than 15 years ago for the very reason that the WHO and other authorities KNEW it was causing vaccine-derived polio paralysis cases!
They know that this vaccine will – statistically anyway – harm some children and could potentially spawn outbreaks, but they use it anyway, supposedly because less developed regions are not equipped to handle refrigerated vaccines that don’t contain the live virus.
Truthstream Media (http://truthstreammedia.com/2013/07/19/bill-gates-knew-vaccination-push-would-paralyze-children/) reported back in 2013:
Perhaps the worst part of this tragic backlash in what is meant to be a campaign to improve public health is that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the UN’s World Health Organization knew that oral polio vaccines caused paralysis – but they thought the trade off was worth it.
After years of controversy in the United States, the use of oral polio vaccine (OPV) was discontinued in 2000 (http://web.archive.org/web/20041103121651/http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=161297) due to its proven link with vaccine-derived poliovirus (VDPV) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Iatrogenic_.28vaccine-induced.29_polio), and in the UK circa 2004.
The use of an injected and inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) replaced its usage in the Western world, while oral polio vaccine continues to be used in the developing world.
Wikipedia notes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio_vaccine#Iatrogenic_.28vaccine-induced.29_polio) that the WHO “considers the benefits of vaccination to far outweigh the risk of vaccine derived polio.”


https://www.intellihub.com/the-polio-vaccine-is-causing-the-new-polio/

[Serpo]

Hey, I'm not the one who was recently banned :rolleyes:

.

But probably deserve to of been instead of singular by a factor of 1000............................

[aeondaze]

But probably deserve to of been instead of singular by a factor of 1000............................

You aren't a moderator so suck it up princess. :D

The vitriol basically all started because you're own daughter rejects your crazy, unsound and insane view of vaccinations and it drives you psychotic as seen by your deliberate carpet bombing and hateful responses to my arguments that reject your illogical and dangerous conclusions.

You can't even convince your OWN DAUGHTER because your psychotic behavior scares her away. :)

[Serpo]

by a factor of 1000............................

[slvrbugjim]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7844&stc=1http://www.iansvoice.org/

Day by day account over 47 days of a death of an infant after a vaccine injury in a blog

http://www.iansvoice.org/

[Cebu_4_2]

http://gold-silver.us/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7844&stc=1http://www.iansvoice.org/

Day by day account over 47 days of a death of an infant after a vaccine injury in a blog



No one could determine what was wrong with our son. No one would consider the hepatitis B vaccine explanation, though. Worse yet, Scott and I later learned there is no cure for an allergic reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine anyway.

Typical med industry.

[slvrbugjim]

Typical med industry.

http://avn.org.au/2012/10/baby-ians-death-inspires-others-to-learn-about-hepatitis-b-vaccine-risks-miami-healthy-living-examiner-com/

The Gromowski's encourage all to see what Ian endured to grasp the depth of pain that characterized most of his life. Scott and Deanna documented Ian’s life through photos for medical purposes. A photo was taken almost daily to show the doctors Ian's ever changing rashes and body once he received the hepatitis B vaccine. On their website they ask readers to consider the following: "Hepatitis B is not airborne. It is contracted through sex, use of drug needles and blood transfusions. Unless you or your baby is involved in any of these, vaccination is not necessary for your child.

http://www.iansvoice.org/

[slvrbugjim]

The Religion of Anti-Science Fanaticismhttp://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/09/the-religion-of-anti-science-fanaticism/
by Guggie L. Daly | Guest Writer
Published September 2, 2015 | Ethics (http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/ethics/), Philosophy (http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/ethics/philosophy/)


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http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/lecturing-doctor.jpgEmployees in the health field (licensed doctors, nurses, researchers, etc.) are not “science.” They are people, yes, mere humans!

I’ve said it before and will say it again. We all need to work together to call people out when they toss around the term “anti-science” or when they claim they “believe in the science.” For too long, we have accepted the misapplication of this anti-science term instead of rightly questioning those throwing it around.

sci·ence (sīəns/noun): the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
Employees in the health field (licensed doctors, nurses, researchers, etc.) are not “science.” They are people, yes, mere humans! And they have gone through standardized education and training to perform basic duties. Duties you can perform, too. They are not the only people who can learn about the world around us. And they are not the ultimate authority on a world we are still learning more about daily.
Science is a particular method of study. Not a group of people. Not a majority rule. Not a community that all agrees on one idea. Not an ultimate truth.
This science is also continually challenged, improved, and altered as people gain more knowledge and continue to explore our world. Remember the infamous Dr. Semmelweis who attempted to convince doctors to wash their hands and instruments to save women from childbed fever?

What Semmelweis had discovered is something that still holds true today: Hand-washing is one of the most important tools in public health. It can keep kids from getting the flu, prevent the spread of disease and keep infections at bay. You’d think everyone would be thrilled. Semmelweis had solved the problem! But they weren’t thrilled. For one thing, doctors were upset because Semmelweis’ hypothesis made it look like they were the ones giving childbed fever to the women.1 (http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/09/the-religion-of-anti-science-fanaticism/#_edn1)
If you believe “science” is already determined, and is merely about majority consensus, you are actually referring to religion.


If you believe a potential finding in scientific studies, or hypotheses presented by scientists are unquestionably true, you are actually talking beliefs.
If you believe in this concept of science above all else, and cannot consider criticism or permit this science to be challenged or questioned, then you are following dogma.
If you believe all people must follow this science without doubting or searching for more answers, you are demanding an act of faith.
If you believe that the amount of science you have at your hands right now is the ultimate knowledge, and that all people must be compelled through peer pressure or laws to follow this science, you are attempting to make our country a theocracy.

Theocracy is a form of government in which clergy (doctors) have sovereignty over a territory (medicine) and official policy is either governed by officials regarded as divinely guided, (from dogmatic science) or is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religion or religious group (pharmaceutical company and lobbying groups).
What is real science? What does it mean to be pro-science? Who is supporting scientific exploration?
People who QUESTION current beliefs are pro-science.
People who want to EXPAND knowledge about our world are scientists.
People who FIGHT for ethical, empirical experiments are fighting for science.
People who DOUBT hypotheses and OFFER alternative ideas are encouraging scientific progress.
Those who question, those who want more investigation, those who want all aspects acknowledged, those who show caution about human rights violations or show concern for how our world might be hurt… Those people are the farthest from anti-science. So, who is actually anti-science?

Nevertheless, in many U.S. hospitals today, the management of labor and delivery doesn’t look very evidence-based. Many well-intentioned obstetricians still employ technological interventions that are scientifically unsupported or that run counter to the evidence of what is safest for mother and child… These problematic motivators are not unique to obstetrics, but obstetrics seems to be particularly resistant to the evidence…2 (http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/09/the-religion-of-anti-science-fanaticism/#_edn2)
People who want to SILENCE opposing voices are anti-science.
People who HARASS, BULLY, or THREATEN those who question are anti-science.
People who CONFUSE fanaticism with science, who confuse profit with ethics, who confuse advances with empirical development, are anti-science.
People who SUPPORT a government operating as a theocracy based on dogma are anti-science.
People try to FORCE others to follow an outdated, unproven, unethical medical program are religious fanatics.

They are anti-science.
When you use the anti-science label, apply it where it belongs. And if you see someone using it inaccurately, correct them. People can and do change when presented with information.

More recent health care provider graduates had 15% decreased odds of believing vaccines are efficacious compared to graduates from a previous 5 year period; had lower odds of believing that many commonly used childhood vaccines were safe; and 3.7% of recent graduates believed that immunizations do more harm than good. Recent health care provider graduates have a perception of the risk-benefit balance of immunization, which differs from that of their older counterparts.3 (http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2015/09/the-religion-of-anti-science-fanaticism/#_edn3)
Note: This article was reprinted with the author’s permission. It was originally published at Guggie Daly (http://guggiedaly.blogspot.com).
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