Gold Coins?

[Jerrylynnb]

I wonder.

Is gold coins really the bottom line to all bottom lines? I know - we fall back on the intrinsic value of the gold in the gold coin to insulate us from the government's devaluing our paper "notes", issued by the government supposedly delineating the value. So, by holding gold coins, we don't really give a shit how many paper notes these shysters in the government overprint - right?

But, still, something inside of me rebels at the idea of a nation of skeptics all holding onto gold coins whenever they get paid for any work they do - like everybody is so damn suspicious of everybody else that we might not even complete a day's work without asking for our pay in gold/silver, by the hour as we go (the boss might decide to skip out and not pay us if we wait 'till the end of the day...).

Then I read about how Germany in the 30's went from completely broke, under the gold standard when they had NO GOLD, to the most prosperous nation on earth where every german had plenty, including housing, transportation, medical, nourishment, and, even adventurous vacations. All done with PAPER notes issued by the government. It depended on the bulk of the citizens of Germany having *trust* in their government not to cheat the hell out of them - and it worked, until the four biggies (USA, UK, France, and Russia) all ganged up to destroy their working national economy and literally exterminate the bulk of Germans (only saved by the immediate conflict between Russia and the west after the fall of Germany - see "Germany Must Perish", during the War).

I tried to acquire gold in the past, and, sometimes I think about buying a gold coin or two, but, then, it seems like dead weight just sitting in a safe place somewhere when it could be used for good purpose somehow. Like a good engineer who holds up in a distant cabin never putting his good skills to work to accomplish anything.

I just don't know.

How about some of you gold bugs elaborate, more than just superficially, why it is that holding gold, hidden somewhere, seems like the right thing to do, personally, and nationally as a whole - after all, we don't want to all be hermits, do we? I am reminded of the old classic movie, "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (Humphrey Bogart), where these three guys were secretly mining gold from a mine in Mexico, but, they had to each seek out a hiding place to keep their share of the gold each day, for fear of having it stolen by one of the others. How can a nation ever hope for greatness with such extreme lack of national identity and willingness to pull together, to the point that each of us not only HOARDS our gold, but, don't even let anybody else know where we have it or even that we are hoarding it? It can get to the point that nobody trusts anybody as far as you can throw a stick - how can that be a prescription for greatness? And I still believe that we americans (from European stock) have it within us to be great, as a nation, and as individuals, but, without such an extreme self-centered attitude that is usually thought of when we describe a "Simon Legree", or someone who hoards gold somewhere and just gets off by himself and counts his gold coins, snarling greedily, ingrown with his hermit-like ways.

Speak up - I know we got some very intelligent chaps here that got a well-thought out viewpoint on holding gold.

[Glass]

we might have very intelligent women here as well. Lass's.

My 2 Dubloons. Gold it a storage of wealth. I think speculation is misguided. Mainly because speculation requires conversion and I think if a true collapse happened there won't be any conversion going on.

In a situation where a collapse has not gone on or where cash is removed from the system, conversion becomes a confession in the eyes of the Kings men. They will want to know where is came from, why you have it, where it is going and they will clip themselve a generous portion.

The other thing to consider is that the gold you hold is not yours but your decendents. It forms the foundation that hopefully starts the Dynasty that grows from your family.

The people of today live in the here and now. They live by the mantra you can't take it with you. They announce loudly that they are spending their kids inheritance.

the Dynastic families do not think this way. They think for the long term. They think for the next generation and the one after that. They instill principles about this asset, how it needs protecting, how it needs nurturing. They teach their kids, they ensure the grand children are on the road to the same education. They work to ensure the safety of the wealth that forms the foundation of what hopefully will become a multi generational dynasty.

Only then can they build upon those foundations until at some point they get the real breaks, either in opportunities to multiply their wealth manifold, instead of scrimp and save small amounts to add to the foundation, or Political opportunities that again enable them to multiply their wealth quickly.

this is how I see gold.

the trust thing is obviously what the Government is supposed to regulate, so that you can trust the money or remuneration you receive. And of course this comes back to the crux of the situation. The Government cannot be trusted to operate autonomously and it continually debases the faith in money.

Gold backed notes. Faith that they can be redeemed. That kind of faith can never come from any bank. Never has, never will. It is the treasury that should back the notes and the treasury should be free of banking and bankers to maintain the faith.

[woodman]

As for the wisdom of buying and holding gold right now, I think it is a no-brainer. It isn't in the banking system, so it can't be taken away at the whim of some criminals in suits. Hoarding is not an issue. You don't feel you are hoarding with your bank account do you? Then why would you have the mindset that sitting on some beautiful metal is somehow a lowly and greedy thing. It is not greedy but merely smart. Squirrels store nuts for the future and we do the same with gold. What the common man may save, compared to what the truly rich have packed away, forever out of the economy is so small as to not merit mention. If the rich would come off their stored wealth, the world would enjoy a renaissance the likes of which has never been seen. It would entail the end of the debt slavery system and usher in an age of enlightenment, free from the ravages of hunger and need which cause such anxiety for most of us in our everyday struggle.

We are living in the 'Land of Milk and Honey'. This is the land of plenty but there is artificial scarcity caused by the elite for the purpose of controlling humanity and keeping us as useful slaves. Can't have the help getting all uppity, now can we? Really! Look what they did to Gaddafi for merely planning a gold backed dinar.

Hold some gold coins and keep them safe. They will help you and yours in the future.

[Hitch]

All good points so far. The main reason I like gold, is keeping wealth out of the system. When I first started reading up on gold, they talk about PM's, precious metals. Well, I thought PM meant Private Money at first. In our digital information age, everyone wants to know what everyone is doing. Like why facebook is so popular. Our government tracks, monitors, and spies on us. Your money in the bank is in digits on a computer screen. Anything you have 'in the system' can be seized, stolen, or a fat finger can wipe it out in an instant. Not gold. It's physical, in your hands, and to take it they 1) need to know you have it, and 2) physically come to your home, face the chance you'll fight them, to get it. You could say the same thing about cash though, except cash looses value as time goes on. It's not a store of wealth. Furthermore, if things get really bad here, gold is the only true international currency, it's accepted in every country on the planet. You could take your gold to New Zealand if you needed to.

[Half Sense]

My Grandpa gave me some silver dollars back in the 1960's. He told me if I kept them until I was old they would be worth a lot.

I went through childhood, teens and young adulthood "hoarding" these coins. Actually, I never really thought about them. And there was certainly no need to go creeping through life or become a hermit because I had the coins.

Comes a day in 1980 when I was living with a girl and we both lost our jobs when the restaurant we worked at closed. Rent was due in a few days. I dug out my silver dollars and we took them to a coin shop. I think they were worth close to $30 each then. My girlfriend sold a clarinet she hadn't played since junior high. We made it through a rough few weeks and then I got a job at a hospital.

Bottom line, Grandpa's coins sat forgotten for 15 years but were there when I needed them in a crisis. Owning them didn't destroy my personality or make me not trust others. It was a small secret, easily kept, and did not haunt me.

[palani]

I am hopefully not a fanatic on the subject. It is merely a topic I have done some reasoning on and moved on after deciding on a course of action.

Gold is capable of being owned. Things that are capable of being owned belong on the province of private property. Private property is the holy grail of common law. Private property is also under attack by socialists who believe in sharing shortages. If you want to be a socialist then don't have any gold.

Gold is portable soil. Unlike land which stays put gold can be transported.

Gold is access to law. He who has the gold makes the law. For this though you don't need large volumes or wheelbarrows full of gold. You need one dollar. Law as practiced by socialists is going to be maritime (by contract) or equity (by females). To have access to common law you need to make your contracts with something of substance. Gold is the substance of choice of sovereigns, silver is the substance of choice of gentlemen and copper is the substance of choice of peasants. Socialists and slaves use fiat. Judges are paid in fiat. So are presidents, bankers, congress critters and coppicemen. Be different. Demand and provide substance in either gold, silver or copper.

Don't be confused by the market price of gold as measured in fiat. The official government price of gold is still $42.22 and the difference between the market price and the official price is a measure of how much fiction (fiat) is necessary to keep the world well lubricated and functioning.

[agnut]

An interesting question. I had been asking myself this over a decade ago and finally came to the conclusion that physical gold and silver are insurance policies. They don’t pay interest and may only yield a profit when partly sold which leaves the seller with a smaller insurance policy.

Gold and silver can provide the possessor with a sort of cushion or shock absorber against the harsh realities of life. The fiat dollars, or any fiat currencies for that matter, are subject to the whim of strangers who can print more when needed without any real effort. A paper one dollar bill costs about the same to print as a one hundred dollar bill. And electronic fiat currency ? The push of a button; how much sweat and risk in that ? We have devolved to the point that most fiat currency is only a figment of our imagination. The emperor has no clothes and nobody will face the naked truth because that would be opening the door to a whole new paradigm.

As I stated above, gold and silver are insurance policies against the uncertainties which come as we pass into the future. We all will have challenges through life; it’s just part of the life contract of which nobody reads the fine print.

Years ago I had a lot of gold and silver. Now I have no gold and only a little silver. What happened; did I go nuts ? Perhaps not. I realized that inflation through the years is negative compound interest. And compounding the inflation compounded on top of borrowing only greatly compounds the gravity of the situation. Can’t you feel the pull of gravity of fiat currency as the burden becomes heavier and heavier through time ? Sure, we will have a fiat currency collapse sometime in the future and the next fiat currency will replace it and so on through time. Many attribute to Einstein who said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Haven’t we been doing this with fiat currency throughout the world for centuries ?

We look to physical gold and silver because they have intrinsic value, ie value within the weight and purity of the metals themselves. Apparently, this is the best that mankind can come up with.

There was a time in which there was no currency; let’s call it B.C. for before currency. These people traded goods for goods and goods for labor. Life was simple and by necessity of time required in negotiating trades, it moved slower. We can’t easily do this now because life is very complex and fast and most importantly we use fiat dollars as the intermediary for trade. We can’t go into a supermarket with a chicken under our arm and expect to trade for a roll of toilet paper. However, after a collapse of currency either by hyperinflation or hyperdeflation, a lot of trades will take place. In the great depression I read of this happening all the time.

Now this may sound a bit financially careless but I have been giving away items I have found at garage and estate sales. I have given them away as thanks for work someone did for me as well as goodwill for the future. Don’t laugh; it almost always pays back fairly or better. I invest in people because I have faith in them. I don’t have a lot of dollars but that is not my yardstick of success. In the series House Of Cards the main character, Kevin Spacey, said that generosity has a power of its own.
Imagine that we have had a collapse and are living through the aftermath. Much has been destroyed in the initial chaos. Things have settled down as collectively we have gone through the 5 stages of grief (great loss) as shown here :

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

So now, after settling down, we have to get on with our lives. Lives which are dramatically different than the ones we left behind. We can’t go back to that old life because all of the fragile connections have been destroyed and they would take decades to rebuild what we had. And if we had the wisdom, would we even want to try ? Remember Einstein’s quote ?

No, no, a brave new world is what we should be seeking in which we slow down and deal with each other with this foundational reality :

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. -C.S. Lewis

You don’t have to be religious to believe this but it certainly helps. Many people say that someone has a good heart. I believe that it would be more accurate to say that someone has a good spirit or soul. A heart is just an organ, which is part of what keeps the body alive which contains the soul or spirit. With that clarity I can see the soul or spirit within and better communicate with it. This is what is so important in dealing with our fellow human beings. And this is what we will need if we are ever to evolve beyond all the divisions, hate. lies, war and greed that we currently live with.

Ever heard anyone encouraging another who is doing a task well saying “That’s the spirit.” ? And the person receiving the encouragement beams with joy of being appreciated.

We earthlings are one on this planet. We are far more closely related than most people know. The following article spells it out quite clearly :

Population bottleneck

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck

I believe that the Georgia Guidestones did not state how mankind was to reduce population to five hundred million from the seven billion souls living here today. We don’t need another world war (see Einstein again) in order to reduce our population. A world birth control plan within two generations at most would work. Within this framework would be to announce to the world that humans are to do this in order to save humanity for future generations. As reward for doing this voluntarily, all humans are to be provided sufficient food, clean water and caring for their welfare as long as they live. The funding could come from stopping wars and donations. Whoever devised the plan to murder six and a half billion souls either through war, pandemic or starvation missed the spiritual solution, to put it mildly. I don’t believe that I could handle the sadness and guilt if I were one of the half billion survivors.

Just had to get that off my chest; it has been weighing heavily for too long.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Jewboo]

How about some of you gold bugs elaborate, more than just superficially, why it is that holding gold, hidden somewhere, seems like the right thing to do, personally, and nationally as a whole - after all, we don't want to all be hermits, do we? I am reminded of the old classic movie, "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (Humphrey Bogart), where these three guys were secretly mining gold from a mine in Mexico, but, they had to each seek out a hiding place to keep their share of the gold each day, for fear of having it stolen by one of the others. How can a nation ever hope for greatness with such extreme lack of national identity and willingness to pull together, to the point that each of us not only HOARDS our gold, but, don't even let anybody else know where we have it or even that we are hoarding it? It can get to the point that nobody trusts anybody as far as you can throw a stick - how can that be a prescription for greatness? And I still believe that we americans (from European stock) have it within us to be great, as a nation, and as individuals, but, without such an extreme self-centered attitude that is usually thought of when we describe a "Simon Legree", or someone who hoards gold somewhere and just gets off by himself and counts his gold coins, snarling greedily, ingrown with his hermit-like ways.



This thread has nothing to do with the "gold coins" title. This thread is basically attempting to shame those who are wisely discrete about where they store their easily-stolen wealth.

:rolleyes:

[StreetsOfGold]

It is not greedy but merely smart. Squirrels store nuts for the future and we do the same with gold

That's right and we are told by God to look to the beasts to TEACH US

Job 12:7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:

and what about the ANT? Do they not ALSO store up?

Proverbs 6:6 ¶ Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise:
Proverbs 6:7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler,
Proverbs 6:8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.

Preparation is a Bible principle, having something you need stored up for a coming time when you may not have it.
Money (Gold and silver) can help serve this purpose. Just don't put your "trust" in it, trust in God instead!

[madfranks]

Then I read about how Germany in the 30's went from completely broke, under the gold standard when they had NO GOLD, to the most prosperous nation on earth where every german had plenty, including housing, transportation, medical, nourishment, and, even adventurous vacations. All done with PAPER notes issued by the government. It depended on the bulk of the citizens of Germany having *trust* in their government not to cheat the hell out of them - and it worked, until the four biggies (USA, UK, France, and Russia) all ganged up to destroy their working national economy and literally exterminate the bulk of Germans (only saved by the immediate conflict between Russia and the west after the fall of Germany - see "Germany Must Perish", during the War).

Sticking strictly to economics, the reason German paper lifted the German economy out of depression was because it was all done on credit. Yes, it was credit that the people trusted, very similar to how many people trust "the full faith and credit of the US Government" today. However it was by no means a permanent economic system, nor could it ever have been. Inflating an economy through fiat money has built-in sanctions that will eventually lead to economic collapse. This was the "boom" of the classic boom & bust cycle that was never realized because WWII destroyed the German economy prematurely.

Consider this, when the German central bank printed and issued a million paper marks, did the central bank create wealth? Did they create fleets of automobiles, truckloads of food, pallets of supplies? No, all they did was print paper notes that through the declaration of the government, the people had to use as money. As more and more money was printed and issued it facilitated trade and mimicked prosperity as more people continually had more and more money. More and more money meant more and more spending, just like a few years ago when Dubya sent out checks to every American household to "stimulate the economy," that money was spent and it made people feel richer. But the net economy was not richer, because again, the central bank didn't print anything of substance, they didn't and couldn't print wealth, just paper. The things unseen: future consumption, development of infrastructure, development of technology, development of factories, were sacrificed for the things seen: immediate consumption of goods and a general feeling of contemporary prosperity.

Think about your household, if you lost your job and had no income, and struggled for a year. Year two you took out a dozen credit cards and maxed them all out living a luxurious life. The year after that you're ruined because you now have no job, no plan, no money, and you never really had prosperity, you borrowed it at the expense of the future.

[ximmy]

I swap FRNs for gold and silver because it is a way for me to store wealth for future use like a piggy bank.... easy to convert back to dollars but hard enough so that impulse buys will not occur.

Even though gold does not accrue interest it (for the most part) is a hedge against inflation.

However, in these times, interest is an issue.

At this point in history some banks are offering negative interest.

Even the bible witnesses that these times we are in are upside down.

Remember the parable of the gold:

Gold given to three persons, and the first two made a profit with theirs.


The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. So also, the one with two bags of gold gained two more. But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

The third person buried his gold and was chastised by the lord for burying it.


“His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

We are currently living in a world where our money does not make interest.
This upside down wickedness negates biblical truths... Strange world indeed.
If anything, the informed person is crazy not to accrue gold and silver in these times.
------

As interest rates turn negative around the world, the Federal Reserve is asking banks to consider the possibility of the same happening in the U.S....
But in the stress test (http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/ccar.htm), banks would have to handle three-month bill rates entering negative territory in the second quarter of 2016, and then falling to negative 0.5 percent and holding there through the first quarter of 2019.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-02/rates-less-than-zero-is-bank-stress-fed-wants-to-test-in-2016

[madfranks]

Good points Ximmy, and like you, I find that physical gold/silver is a great vehicle for saving money. Easy enough to convert to fiat if needed, but difficult enough to stop impulsive buying. Unfortunately I still have some silver I bought at $30+ prices years ago, so in retrospect I'd have been better off saving fiat, but I consider the loss the cost of monetary insurance.

[mick silver]

just if I had not took my gold and silver out for a boat ride dam waves .........

[Neuro]

Personally I think coffee would be one of the most appreciated assets in a global crisis situation. However it is an asset that is perishable. A vaccum packed coffee brick, may last 2-3 maybe 4 years if stored in a cool dark place, in reasonable quality, and with time people's perception of what is reasonable may deteriorate, so let's say 6-7 years. In communist Soviet Union in the 80's a pound of premium coffee could fetch nearly a months average salary on the black market, but people still wanted it for Weddings, funerals, birthday parties, etc. It gave people a sense of normalcy, and a taste of luxury (coffee tastes much better if you haven't had it for a long time). However it doesn't last for ever. Gold does, coffee is way more bulky too...

[Neuro]

Sticking strictly to economics, the reason German paper lifted the German economy out of depression was because it was all done on credit. Yes, it was credit that the people trusted, very similar to how many people trust "the full faith and credit of the US Government" today. However it was by no means a permanent economic system, nor could it ever have been. Inflating an economy through fiat money has built-in sanctions that will eventually lead to economic collapse. This was the "boom" of the classic boom & bust cycle that was never realized because WWII destroyed the German economy prematurely.

Consider this, when the German central bank printed and issued a million paper marks, did the central bank create wealth? Did they create fleets of automobiles, truckloads of food, pallets of supplies? No, all they did was print paper notes that through the declaration of the government, the people had to use as money. As more and more money was printed and issued it facilitated trade and mimicked prosperity as more people continually had more and more money. More and more money meant more and more spending, just like a few years ago when Dubya sent out checks to every American household to "stimulate the economy," that money was spent and it made people feel richer. But the net economy was not richer, because again, the central bank didn't print anything of substance, they didn't and couldn't print wealth, just paper. The things unseen: future consumption, development of infrastructure, development of technology, development of factories, were sacrificed for the things seen: immediate consumption of goods and a general feeling of contemporary prosperity.

Think about your household, if you lost your job and had no income, and struggled for a year. Year two you took out a dozen credit cards and maxed them all out living a luxurious life. The year after that you're ruined because you now have no job, no plan, no money, and you never really had prosperity, you borrowed it at the expense of the future.
But essentially the Reichsmark wasn't a true unbacked FIAT currency. It was backed by silver and copper as 1 and 2 Mark coins was made of silver, and smaller pfennig coins were in copper...

[madfranks]

But essentially the Reichsmark wasn't a true unbacked FIAT currency. It was backed by silver and copper as 1 and 2 Mark coins was made of silver, and smaller pfennig coins were in copper...

Think about here in the USA, we lost gold first, in 1933, then they were able to inflate the paper game until '65 when silver had to be removed, and as copper was the most minor and inexpensive metal, it was able to be kept till '82. I suspect it would have been similar in Germany had the economy been able to continue.

[Spectrism]

PMs are a hedge.

I actually expect that by the end of 2018, this world will be shaken so bad that 90+% of the people reading this will be dead. I suspect I won't be here and the timing could be a whole lot shorter. And before the end, we will see our money system go entirely to digital money transactions. You will not be allowed to spend even fiat cash. At that point you had best know how to live off the grid- without their money system. If you need to make any acquisitions, you may find a mutual giving system as the only outlet short of theft or divine providence.

Hell is coming to this world because hell is what the people have chosen. Don't be a fool tied to their system. Gold or silver coins or bullion may be a form of insurance or hedge. Since I see the money system crashing to the point where I will not engage in it, I will have no other choice but to use what I have isolated from the world and just rely on what God provides.

[Neuro]

Think about here in the USA, we lost gold first, in 1933, then they were able to inflate the paper game until '65 when silver had to be removed, and as copper was the most minor and inexpensive metal, it was able to be kept till '82. I suspect it would have been similar in Germany had the economy been able to continue.
As far as I have been able to read German economy (albeit a war economy) and value of the reichsmark was sustained until beginning of 1945. We really don't have a clue how Europe would have fared under their system of economics, diametrically opposed to the system we have today under International Jew Banksters, but I do think the general populace would have been better off. Certainly it is a possibility their system would have been massively corrupted too, just like ours is today, had they won the war!