6.5 Creedmore

[Glass]

What do we know about this calibre?

Some background to the question. Goes back a couple years. Spent some time range shooting a friends .308 as a visitor to a club comp. Did quite well. I'm sure it was mostly down to the rifle as built by my friend. Anyway a good enough first timer result that got the club officials scratching their heads.

They had been dubious about this guys build. The club has a couple old bangers for 1st timers and new club members to use during probabtion - before the club will sponsor you and your own gun.

Club decided those old guns now needed replacing - basically because bullets were going every where. Sloppy worn barrel = lots of yaw.

The club pegged my fried to build the next pair of guns. He gets right into the whole ballistics thing.

The club comp is for .308 or .223 calibres. Basically anything over 5.6mm but less than 8mm(?). .223 is considered ok on shorter range shoots but out to 900yrds they are considered not so ideal.

I started talking about running .270. Being that it is flatter than .223, has the power for 900yrds + and obviously cheaper than .308 but not as cheap as .223. AND Still good for small varmint dogs, goats, the hogs we have around here etc if you want to go hunting.

I got negative feedback on that idea. Poo poo blah blah. Don't know nothing.

Seems they only shoot .308 and .223 out of habit maybe. The .270 is still within the calibre range but no one thought to shoot it. 12 months go by and I catch up with the friend and guess what? He's running .270 and is really pleased with the performance. He's getting right up the rankings, he was any way but it's that extra 5%.

Ok my point. Now I am hearing a fair bit about 6.5 Creedmore as a round. Don't know much about it but it's looking pretty interesting. I'm asking because I saw a sweet modula rifle, made here in OZ with a Tikka receiver - sometimes barrels are from other manufacturers than Tikka. Depends on budget. The preferred calibre seems to be 6.5 creedmore.

Looking around, NutnFancy is sayign the 6.5 is his go to calibre now. His preferred gun is a modular type, similar to the one I see here in Oz but built by a US Company who is big with this. Everyone would know them if I could remember the name.

Anyway I see a lot of .308 vs 6.5 debates. I don't see many/any .270 vs 6.5 comparo's. Been loioking at ammo availability but I think I will have to visit a couple stores to have a look.

Anyone got some input on the 6.5 Creedmore?

[osoab]

I like your question, but I have no answers for you. Looking forward to any answers or thoughts on the round.

[osoab]

I have been looking around for a new addition.

One of this model is a possiblility. Had the opportunity to get one for 1000 frns.

(http://www.ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html)Ruger Precision Rifle™ (http://www.ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html)
http://www.ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/img/models-top.jpg


"1,600 yards. Enough Said." - Mike Fifer, CEO



243 Winchester, 308. or 6.5 Creedmoor

I was leaning towards the 308 because it would not be another caliber to add to the collection.

[Shami-Amourae]

I'd avoid a non-common round unless you have a gun that can swap out barrels for your specialty round.

[Glass]

It' s a very good point Shami. Unfortunately down here we dont get the luxury of swapping out barrels etc. And you get the 3rd degree on every calibre, purpose for etc. If you have a single receiver and multiple barrels it is considered multiple firearms.

I heard brass is about the same $$ as .308, may have longer reload life, less powder but equal balistics at 1000 yrd. .270 is more common than 6.5 by a fair margin.

[Shami-Amourae]

Well I'd go 308 since that's such a hot caliber.

Too bad there's no really hot calibers between 223 and 308 that are accurate (yes I'm talking to you 7.62x39).

243 may be the best alternative though. I still haven't shot that one, but it looks good.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/.223%2C_.243%2C_.308.JPG/800px-.223%2C_.243%2C_.308.JPG
(Left to Right) .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, .308 Winchester


Notice how when the 243 is compared, they use a 223 and a 308 since they are so damn popular.

[Glass]

yea I forgot about .243

308 is the go to if I can't convince myself of .270 or the 6.5

There seemed to be a lot of chatter back in 2010 but since then not much. An uptick in 2012 chatter but then pretty quite on the debate.

What I like is flatness, power at 900yrds+ and pretty stable in flight, not too much wind affect. It's windy down here most of the time.

[Glass]

watching and reading.

Just started watching this guy. He's been shooting a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3OosLWCDU

talking the Sixers. He's doing the 6.5x47 Lapua.

Am looking at the brass situation. People resizing .308 to Creedmore. Sounds like you can get between 2 dozen and maybe as high as 4 dozen reloads for a resized .308

This guys shows how he resizes. Looks complicated but I think with lathe and some patience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31hpsB4xD8

I like the idea of resizing .308 although I'd be unsure if I could score those without .308 calibre listed on my card.

[gunDriller]

A lot of times it boils down to which bullet you're using.

When I buy a 6.5 (Grendel, for the AR, made from 6.5 x 47 Lapua), it will be to run this (bare) bullet -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/289250/hornady-interlock-bullets-264-caliber-65mm-264-diameter-123-grain-sst-boat-tail-box-of-100

Ballistic Coefficient of .510.

You can do amazing shooting using a 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor. 6.5 Creedmoor ammo will be expensive unless you re-load.


I had someone next to me run through a batch of 7 mm -08. I took the brass home & ran it through the 308 decap/re-size die, good to go (=brass tension on .308 bullet).


There is nothing wrong with the 7.62 x 39. It's sort of like judging 2 liter engines by looking at a Yugo.

It's the implementation of 7.62 x 39 that is not very good.

If you start with a good upper (e.g. Radical Firearms) and good bullets with brass cases, it shoots like a 123 grain 1600 foot pound 2500 fps bullet would normally shoot.

I suggest ignorring all the crap 7.62 x 39 stuff out there (the steel cases might be good for wind-chimes ?), and focussing on the quality 7.62 x 39 stuff.

[Glass]

Thanks GD. I'm finding it hard to justify a 6.5 creedmore as a main rifle. I like the idea for comp and maybe for some medium range wild dog stuff. But then the .308 is the ideal match for both of those.

So as been suggested I think I'll put it to the side and maybe I can add it down the track. And .308 is the way to build up enough brass to resize.

I had more to say but 'kin keyboard says no.

[gunDriller]

oh well found this anyway

http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/savage-arms/11-long-range-hunter-rifle-6.5creedmoor-26in-3rd-black/

too bad they don't charge by the inch for barrels. Those last 2 inches cost about $500.


Actually, today I get the scope mount for a scope I got on Friday. For 300 Blackout. Which makes 7.62 x 39 look powerful.

Was going to get a 6.5 myself but decided I needed to be happy with what I got, and learn to shoot the 300 Blackout @ 200 yards.

[monty]

You guys don't like the 7mm? My brother shoots a 7mm Weatherby Mag. I have shot it. The recoil is pleasant, a very powerful flat shooting rifle. I shoot a necked down version, the .257 Weaterby Mag. I also shoot a Model 70 Featherweight in .308 Win. The .308 is a great all around caliber. I have killed a lot of deer with it.


http://youtu.be/lSajrYsjuGg

Youtube link: http://youtu.be/lSajrYsjuGg

[gunDriller]

One of the guys at the gym gave up on 308 for distance shooting while hunting.

Transitioned to a 7 mm Rem. Mag.

There are some very high performing 7 mm bullets too -
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/333391/speer-bullets-284-caliber-7mm-284-diameter-145-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-100

One of the highest rated bullets at Midway.

Some of the reviews are very educational.

I actually bought those bullets when I thought I was going to be getting a 7 mm-08. Then got a 308 & ended up returning the bullets.


I don't entirely understand the selection of 30 caliber above 308.

From Hodgdon Reloading, 300 Win. Short Mag. has some of the best velocities.

30 cal + 4.4 cc of powder 300 WSM - how could that possibly out-perform 30 cal + 5+ cc of powder (e.g. Weatherby Mag.) ?!

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

That was the basic impression I got from spending a few hours comparing different bullets & calibers there - 30 WSM seemed to have slightly better velocities. Could be wrong, there's got to be one 30 cal that out-paces the 30 WSM. Just haven't found it.


To be honest, having 2.8 cc of gunpowder exploding 6 inches from one's head (308) is percussion enough.

[mick silver]

http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleMagnum/images/top.jpgI have this one in the 7mm at one time it all I used for hunting and yes it does have a kick and plus ammo real high

[Glass]

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle



The Speers definately get good raps from users. Boat tails are super stable. I love watching .308 punching holes in the air as they go down range. It's like looking down a tunnel. You can see the shock wave.

Cant get in to that ballistics site for some reason. Probably an issue on my side. Will keep trying. There isn't an inside web page you could throw up that would get around that front page? I'm supposed to be seeing buttons to agree to t&c's but nothing showing up.

[gunDriller]

The Speers definately get good raps from users. Boat tails are super stable. I love watching .308 punching holes in the air as they go down range. It's like looking down a tunnel. You can see the shock wave.

Cant get in to that ballistics site for some reason. Probably an issue on my side. Will keep trying. There isn't an inside web page you could throw up that would get around that front page? I'm supposed to be seeing buttons to agree to t&c's but nothing showing up.

I never noticed the shock wave. Will have to look.


re. the reload site ... could be the browser ?

[mick silver]

gundriller have you shot a 7mm if you have not you really need to its one bad ass gun .

[gunDriller]

gundriller have you shot a 7mm if you have not you really need to its one bad ass gun .

Which 7 mm ? Usually when people say "7 mm" around here, they mean 7 mm Remington Magnum.

I'm sure it is bad ass - one of the guys at the gym, who got me started looking beyond the 308, stopped looking when he got the 7 mm Rem. Mag.

But he moved so I can no longer ask him gun questions in the locker room.

Anyway, I added the 7 mm Rem. Mag to the list on my other post.

[mick silver]

7 mm Ruger still feel like ruger makes some of the best long guns ,my pack gun a sr1911 full

[mick silver]

I also have this one got it off a guy who didn't like the kick of the 7mm gun but to me it s good a gun as the ruger but cheaper in price http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11FCNS I also put this scope on the gun ... for the price it not bad done what I have needed ... http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-riflescope-prostaff-3-9x40.html . years ago the ammo was a lot cheaper then it is today but I got what needed a few years back... also watch out for cheap scope if you put one on a 7mm they will not last the jar from the gun will f them up... also if you like to shot a lot you will need one of they for the 7mm ... save you a lot of shoulder pain ...http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Super-Plus-Recoil-Shield/dp/B001C5XOJQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455129106&sr=8-1&keywords=shooting+shoulder+pad

[gunDriller]

I also have this one got it off a guy who didn't like the kick of the 7mm gun but to me it s good a gun as the ruger but cheaper in price http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11FCNS I also put this scope on the gun ... for the price it not bad done what I have needed ... http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-riflescope-prostaff-3-9x40.html . years ago the ammo was a lot cheaper then it is today but I got what needed a few years back... also watch out for cheap scope if you put one on a 7mm they will not last the jar from the gun will f them up... also if you like to shot a lot you will need one of they for the 7mm ... save you a lot of shoulder pain ...http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Super-Plus-Recoil-Shield/dp/B001C5XOJQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455129106&sr=8-1&keywords=shooting+shoulder+pad

I did find it necessary to have something for re-coil, with the 20 inch barrel shooting 308.

I used a bag of sunflower seeds - basically like sandbags, but much lighter. Made them for shooting on wild land (away from fancy stuff like front shooting rests). An athletic sock filled with sunflower seeds, tied off with wire.

But with the 24 inch barrel, the 308 is a completely different beast. (higher velocity, much less recoil)

I like the Savage rifles too.

[Glass]

the club shooting friend I have spoken about runs Savage receivers with a Krieger barrel. I like. Nice stainless barrel. Not something you could go hunting with though, About 1" diameter.

[gunDriller]

the club shooting friend I have spoken about runs Savage receivers with a Krieger barrel. I like. Nice stainless barrel. Not something you could go hunting with though, About 1" diameter.

Do you mean a Savage lower receiver - AR15 or AR10 format ? Didn't know they made them.

Or a normal Savage rifle, like the 'trophy hunter' line, with a custom spec barrel ?

[mick silver]

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/prodlist.asp?subcategory=FIRC&att1=&att2=&att3=&att4=&att5=&att6=&att7=&Stock%20Status=Out+of+Stock&PriceRange=&Name=Savage+Arms&MfgID=221

[mick silver]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.aspx?groupid=1252&name=Geissele

[Glass]

No not an AR. Regular rifle action.

[osoab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crHUhGuBc14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crHUhGuBc14

[Glass]

I picked up a gun mag the other day and it had a precision chassis review in it. Was not one I have heard of before. A US manufacturer I cannot remember the name of.

I checked out their web site and I thought I book marked it but can't find it.

Here's a .223 on an XLR chassis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgAxxhUIyok

[Glass]

I didn't post this for some reason.

Tikka T3 NLR Mistresss of Dangerous Things. NutNFancy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDbn4xKdnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDbn4xKdnQ

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDbn4xKdnQ)The Nailer. NLR.

What are thoughts on barrel fluting? Expecially that style. Don't usually see that style. I realise more surface area than straight flute. More metal removed as well. Lighter. Does that add weakness or reduce life? More cooling, increased life?

[steyr_m]

I have been looking around for a new addition.

243 Winchester, 308. or 6.5 Creedmoor

I was leaning towards the 308 because it would not be another caliber to add to the collection.

.308 is good because you usually want to stick to military rounds during SHTF for availability. I think .243 is a necked-down .308, so brass would be highly available. I don't know much about the Creedmore, but looking at building a 6.5x47 Lapua soon. 6.5 mm seems to be the sweet-spot for long range calibres,

[gunDriller]

.308 is good because you usually want to stick to military rounds during SHTF for availability. I think .243 is a necked-down .308, so brass would be highly available. I don't know much about the Creedmore, but looking at building a 6.5x47 Lapua soon. 6.5 mm seems to be the sweet-spot for long range calibres,

Shooting at longer distances basically means being a rocket scientist - we're talking Mach 3+.

So ballistic coefficient becomes important. The flat-butt bullets I like to shoot at 200 yards ... maybe I got lucky.


The best bullet I've found at 6.5 is the Hornady I think I put a link to - 123 grain. BC = .510

At 308, you have to go up to about 180 grain to get a comparable BC.


However, there's another factor besides BC. Sometimes the slightly wider opening of the bigger brass allows its geometry to perform better.

You get zero reward for using the smaller diameter caliber.

The 270 WSM maxes out at about 3000 ft pounds.

The 300 WSM maxes out at 3500 foot pounds.

Top speed for both ? 3250 fps.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00129F300WSMFS3/300-Winchester-Short-Mag-150-Grain-Fusion-20-Rounds

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00129270WSME/270-Winchester-Short-Mag-130-Grain-Power-Shok-Soft-Point-20-Rounds

There is something about the slightly larger opening that helps get a lot better performance, from the same internal volume of the brass.


I don't know if I have the budget to work through all this.

I also don't know if I'll ever shoot at a distance (greater than 200 yards) where BC really matters.

Fun to talk about though - helps me understand guns better !

[mick silver]

its nice to know you can if you ever need too , not everyone can take a long shot ... I also don't know if I'll ever shoot at a distance (greater than 200 yards) where BC really matters.

[monty]

its nice to know you can if you ever need too , not everyone can take a long shot ... I also don't know if I'll ever shoot at a distance (greater than 200 yards) where BC really matters.


In Nevada long shots are fairly common. My brother has killed deer and his desert bighorn sheep at 600 yards ome shot clean kills. I am not that good a shot. I like the 100 to 200 yard kills.

[midnight rambler]

6.5 mm seems to be the sweet-spot for long range calibres

The Swiss figured that out a long time ago.

[gunDriller]

so let's go shopping for 6.5 Creedmoor

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aimpactguns.com+creedmoor
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atombstonetactical.com+creedmoor

The longer barrel is a little more expensive
http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/ruger/ruger-47139-m77-hawkeye-predator-6.5-creedmoor-24in%204rd-matte-stainless-no-sights-green-mountain-stock/


http://www.tombstonetactical.com/catalog/savage-arms/19680-11-trophy-hunter-xp-rifle-6.5creedmoor-22in-4rd-black-3-9x40mm-scope/
$513 with a 22" barrel and a good scope

http://www.impactguns.com/ruger-mkii-target-rifle-65-creedmoor-28in-17980-736676179800.aspx
28 inch barrel, $800

"The 6.5 Creedmoor resulted from a conversation in 2007 at Camp Perry between Hornady Senior Ballistician Dave Emary and Dennis DeMille, general manager of Creedmoor Sports and 2005 NRA National High Power Champion, about the ideal match cartridge. DeMille suggested a list of characteristics, including match-grade accuracy, a high-ballistic coefficient (BC) bullet, low recoil, good barrel and brass life, moderate chamber pressure, wide availability, affordable and a 2.800-inch overall length for feeding from short-action magazines. Emary took DeMille's list back to Hornady and used it to begin development of a new cartridge.

Emary selected 6.5 mm for the new round because of the available selection of 0.264-inch-diameter match projectiles, all of which offer high ballistic coefficients and excellent accuracy." By Stanton Wormley, Jr., American Rifleman Magazine March 2009

[mick silver]

https://www.laxammo.com/?refid=ammoseekbanner

[mick silver]

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/category/parts-and-accessories.do