mick silver
26th April 2016, 04:32 PM
Breaking: MH17 May Have Been Downed By Ukrainian Jet, According to BBC Documentary
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/gordonduff/) on April 25, 2016
VT was right again: Read today's announcement and learn the facts by reading the hidden history of this tragedy below
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MH-17-banner-crop-640x246.jpg
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 that crashed in eastern Ukraine in 2014 could have been downed by a Ukrainian fighter jet, a BBC documentary will claim. We begin:
‘You can’t fire Buk missile in broad daylight with no witnesses’
___________
RT Report (2015) Speculation about the combat capabilities of the SU-25 jet stem from the Russian definition of the aircraft’s service ceiling – which is not the same as its absolute ceiling, as defined by the US military, Veterans Today senior editor Gordon Duff told RT.
“The claimed service ceiling is based on the oxygen supply in the aircraft. Now, there is a claim that this plane [SU-25] will only work to 22,000 feet. At the end of World War II, a German ME-262 would fly at 40,000 feet, a P-51 Mustang propeller plane flew at 44,000 feet. The SU-25 was developed as an analogue of the A-10 Thunderbolt, an American attack plane. The planes have almost identical performance, except that the SU-25 is faster and more powerful. The A-10 Thunderbolt has a service ceiling of 45,000 feet. The US estimates the absolute ceiling, which is a different term,” Duff explained.
“Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.”
It is highly unlikely that the launch of such a missile would have gone unnoticed in the area, Duff stressed, adding that the trail left by the rocket in the air would have been witnessed and filmed by “thousands.”
“One of the things we settled on early on is that in the middle of the day, if this were a Buk missile, the contrail would have been seen for 50 miles [80km]. The contrail itself would have been photographed by thousands of people; it would have been on Instagram, on Twitter, it would have been all over YouTube – and no one saw it. You can’t fire a missile on a flat area in the middle of the day leaving a smoke trail into the air and having everyone not see it,” Duff said.
“There is no reliable information supporting that it was a Buk missile fired by anyone,” he added.
http://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/102932/64/1029326457.jpg
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The plane carrying 298 people crashed while en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, killing everyone on board. A Dutch-led inquiry concluded last year it had been blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile.
But the UK broadcaster’s program “Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17?” will explore the possibility that the Boeing-777 was shot down by a fighter jet.
“There are eyewitness accounts of other aircrafts seen flying next to MH17 close to impact,” BBC says on a webpage for the documentary.
The program, which will air May 3, took evidence from eye witnesses, experts and secret intelligence sources as well as studied satellite photographs, wire taps, and videos in an attempt to sort fact from fiction in many conspiracy theories involving Ukraine, Russia and CIA.
from the BBC official website:
The Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17?
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/corporate2/images/width/live/p0/3q/8x/p03q8x13.jpg/624
Confirmed for BBC Two on 3 May at 9pm to 10pm
Ep 1/1, Tuesday 3 May
9.00pm-10.00pm BBC TWO
On 17 July 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed, killing 298 passengers in the worst air disaster for two decades.
Alarmingly, the devastating crash occurred just four months after the mysterious disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370. Is this just a coincidence? The cause of the crash has been focus of a host of conspiracy theories, many of which involve Russia, Ukraine and the CIA.
The official investigation report into MH17 flight argues that only a powerful ground-to-air missile could be responsible. Yet, there are eyewitness accounts of other aircrafts seen flying next to MH17 close to impact. To further fuel the conspiracies, Russia and Ukraine blame each other but both countries are unable to provide all the critical radar data from that day.
Family members do not trust the official explanations and there is a long way to go to bring about justice for the victims. This programme tracks down eye witnesses, and speaks with secret intelligence sources to try to sort fact from fiction. Don’t miss this compelling Conspiracy Files unfold to see whether the mystery can be unravelled.
From Veterans Today, October 13, 2015
Today, Dutch investigators came up with their long predetermined solution, that a BUK missile shot down MH17 no matter how impossible that might be. Any other answer would have brought down NATO.
The Kiev backed SU25 pilots following MH17 “from below” have never admitted to seeing anything though the plane, according to them, nearly fell on them.
Then again, the American AEGIS radar imagery, units, one in Constanta and two more on ships in the Black Sea, though they recorded everything, was withheld along with American satellite imagery. Only one answer for this, because they recorded planes shooting down MH17 as is consistent with the German report.
Other than the simple issue of impossibility, there is rock solid evidence that MH17 was trailed by two SU25 aircraft that Kiev claimed could not be responsible because they were not capable of flight at altitude. In the below article, based on live interviews on Russia Today, pilots debunked this, pilots who have flown the SU25 to nearly 50,000 feet.
This is the crux of the story. The other “crux” of the story is not only the predetermined insanity the Dutch have come up with, long expected, but the behavior of the media, including the very weak Russian media, Russia Today, Sputnik News among others, who quickly lose focus.
This is a story all about control of the media. From Russia Today, March 12, 2015:
“Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.”
As the investigation into the MH17 tragedy continues in eastern Ukraine, the SU-25’s chief designer has told German media that the fighter jet could not possibly have taken down the passenger plane. RT spoke to former pilots about the jet’s capabilities.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed down over rebel-held eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Everyone on board – 283 passengers and 15 crew members – perished in the tragedy.
A report on the official investigation published in September 2014 said the crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside. However, it did not conclude what the objects were, where they came from, or who was responsible.
http://img.rt.com/files/news/36/23/f0/00/plane-crash.n.jpg (http://rt.com/news/221759-lavrov-ukraine-plane-crash/)
Kiev and some Western states have placed blame on eastern Ukraine militias and Russia. The Russian Defense Ministry shared radar data pointing to other possibilities in July – including an attack by a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet, which was said to have been tracking the passenger plane.
While an official international investigation into the crash has been dragging on for nine months, the debate into the cause of the tragedy has been once again reignited by recent comments from the chief designer of the SU-25.
Kiev-born Soviet and Russian aircraft designer Vladimir Babak said on Monday that the SU-25 jet – which was spotted tracking the MH17 Boeing at the moment it crashed down – did not have the capability to shoot down a passenger plane. He said the fighter jet could have successfully attacked the Boeing at an altitude of 3,000-4,000 meters, but not at the plane’s altitude of 10,500 meters. He added that air-to-air missiles would have only damaged the Boeing – not completely destroyed it while still in the air.
http://rt.com/files/news/3a/90/90/00/mh17.jpg
At the crash site of of the Malaysian Boeing 777 near the village of Grabovo not far from Shakhtersk in the Donetsk region. (RIA Novosti)
“I believe all allegations that a SU-25 could be involved into this tragedy are a cover-up attempt,” Babak said in an interview to German channels NDR and WDR. “I cannot explain it otherwise. We cannot understand how an SU-25 could take down the Boeing.”
‘SU-25 capable of high altitude flights, can carry powerful missiles’
However, several former top officials and SU-25 pilots disagree with Babak.
Based on the analysis of the plane debris and the nature of the damage, there is a high probability the plane was stuck by an air-to-air missile and an aircraft gun, Lieutenant General Aleksandr Maslov, former deputy chief of the Russian Air Defense and Land Forces, told RT.
“The published photos [from the MH17 crash site] enable to assume that the Boeing was downed by a military jet. Besides that, the existing damage indicates that the airplane was shot with air-to-air missiles together with an aircraft gun with a 30mm caliber,” Maslov said.
Claims that the passenger plane was downed by a surface-to-air Buk missile “cannot be supported,” as the nature of the damage from the missiles is different, he added.
Commenting on the jet’s ability to maneuver at higher altitudes, the former commander of an aviation division, Major General Sergey Borysyuk, noted that the jet would have had the capability to “maneuver comfortably,” even at such a high altitude.
“I personally flew, and not once, at an altitude of 12,000 meters…,” he said. “My colleagues have risen to an altitude of 14,000 meters. The altitude of 10,500 was officially authorized during operations in Afghanistan. Therefore the plane, even at an altitude of 12,000 meters, has the capability to maneuver comfortably, its aerodynamic characteristics enable it to do so.”
Borysyuk explained that the R-60 missiles on the SU-25 have an infrared homing and a rod warhead. Citing the nature of the plane’s debris and the “precisely sliced fuselage,” he said that R-60 missiles were possibly used.
“The firing range of the missile is 7.5km. And in those conditions, the probability of hitting the target increases,” he added.
http://img.rt.com/files/news/2a/9a/00/00/malaysia-crash-russia-questions-.n.jpg (http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/)
The former chief commander of Russia’s Air Force, Vladimir Mikhailov, also said he flew the SU-25, reaching an altitude of 12,000 meters and even 14,000 meters. He also stated that the plane “comfortably maneuvers” at such heights.
“If the plane was downed by Buk [missile defense system], it would have almost immediately fallen to pieces in the air and we could not have witnessed such large debris on the ground,” he said.
Along with Russia’s Ministry of Defense, he also questioned why the MH17 flight stayed within the flying corridor until it reached Donetsk, but then deviated from the route to the north.
In July 2014, Russia’s Ministry of Defense presented military monitoring data which showed Kiev military jets tracking MH17 shortly before the crash and posed a set of questions to Ukraine over the circumstances of the tragedy, which have still not been answered.
‘You can’t fire Buk missile in broad daylight with no witnesses’
Speculation about the combat capabilities of the SU-25 jet stem from the Russian definition of the aircraft’s service ceiling – which is not the same as its absolute ceiling, as defined by the US military, Veterans Today senior editor Gordon Duff told RT.
“The claimed service ceiling is based on the oxygen supply in the aircraft. Now, there is a claim that this plane [SU-25] will only work to 22,000 feet. At the end of World War II, a German ME-262 would fly at 40,000 feet, a P-51 Mustang propeller plane flew at 44,000 feet. The SU-25 was developed as an analogue of the A-10 Thunderbolt, an American attack plane. The planes have almost identical performance, except that the SU-25 is faster and more powerful. The A-10 Thunderbolt has a service ceiling of 45,000 feet. The US estimates the absolute ceiling, which is a different term,” Duff explained.
The known estimate for the absolute ceiling of the SU-25 is 52,000 feet (15.8km), he added.
Moreover, Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.
Duff said he also discussed the possibility of the MH17 flight having been shot by a ground-to-air missile with experts from the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration), the FBI, the Air Line Pilots Association, as well as air traffic and air operational officers – and they all agreed that no proof of anti-aircraft missile use has been provided to the public.
It is highly unlikely that the launch of such a missile would have gone unnoticed in the area, Duff stressed, adding that the trail left by the rocket in the air would have been witnessed and filmed by “thousands.”
“One of the things we settled on early on is that in the middle of the day, if this were a Buk missile, the contrail would have been seen for 50 miles [80km]. The contrail itself would have been photographed by thousands of people; it would have been on Instagram, on Twitter, it would have been all over YouTube – and no one saw it. You can’t fire a missile on a flat area in the middle of the day leaving a smoke trail into the air and having everyone not see it,” Duff said.
“There is no reliable information supporting that it was a Buk missile fired by anyone,” he added.
Veterans Today’s July 17 Article:
“On 9/11, the infamous “Harley guy,” a Fox News employee wearing a Harley Davidson t shirt was interviewed moments after the triple towers vaporized. He described in detail exactly what the findings, absurd as they seem today, would be to the public 9/11 report released many years later. In fact, he was the real author of that farcical document.
On MH 17 we get a new “Harley guy” every couple of weeks, with a veritable army of them hitting the streets today, straining our patience, all peddling the same equally farcical “BUK missile” talking points.”
Editor’s note: You have just seen 4 minutes of a 17 minute video. News Corp (Murdoch) claims the complete video asserts that MH 17 was shot down by a plane. Why this video, shot by crash site investigators making some effort to secure the scene, has been held for a year is inexcusable. Stories about how the scene was protected and what went on there are now proven utterly false. VT has the story right in August 2014. Read the initial VT story here (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/) followed by reports from Sputnik News and Russia Today. VT staffers are standing by waiting for the website to crash.
VT Exclusive: As the day progresses, a “toad and troll” media war has erupted along with massive denial of service attacks on Veterans Today. The BUK missile story that from the first ignored the fact that Kiev routed MH17 purposefully over a “no fly combat zone” is being peddled by not only the paid stooges of Israeli agent Jane Harmon’s Daily Beast but armies of misfits, pedophiles, chat room trolls and paid off military retirees.
We take this, the after the fact disinformation campaign, so stupidly orchestrated, and the wealth of evidence, only some of which is outlined below, that Israel had a clear hand in the downing of MH17 and quite probably MH 370 as well. They got “two birds with one stone” with MH 17, a blow against two enemies, Russia and Malaysia.
Everything made public about MH 17 has been a lie. New evidence supports two planes being shot down, MH 17 and the fighter that shot it down…shot down by what now appears to be a Russian fighter in Ukrainian air space, scrambled to defend MH 17. Two pilots of the SU25 bailed out before crash according to witness statements withheld for a year.
There is precedent for Russians defending Eastern Ukraine from air attacks. Russian pilots defended North Vietnam as well during the Vietnam War and American pilots flew missions over Israel, Syria and Egypt in the 1973 War and may well be flying unofficial missions on behalf of al Nusra or ISIS groups fighting inside Syria and Iraq as well.
Russia and its separatist allies withheld vital facts on MH17 because a Russian plane downed the Kiev (Israeli armed according to RT) Sukhoi 25 that shot down the airliner. The US and others with access to the crash scenes and satellite photos covered up the second crash site. Was it because the arms were Israeli? Was this done to block the public from learning how broad involvement was and how many nations were to blame for the MH 17 shoot down?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fff_599.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fff_599.jpg)
Israeli Python missile cited in report
Why was this video withheld? Where was it all this time? Why is Murdoch, of all people, ordering it released now? How long has Murdoch known about it? What other evidence is being withheld? With the US having both AWAC and AEGIS cover for this region, why has the United States failed to release its evidence unless, as is so often the case, Americans working for Israel had reason to withhold this vital evidence.
Sputnik News Report including transcript of censored video
In Utter Disbelief
Meanwhile, the Australian news outlet News.com.au has published what it claims to be the transcript of the ”17-minute video shot by the rebels themselves on a camcorder as they captured what they initially believed to be a Ukrainian air force fighter jet they had just shot down”.
The website however has posted only a 4-minute video extract but published what it claims to be the transcript of the full version.
If true, the conversations made on camera prove that the alleged self-defense fighters arrived at the site of the Boeing crash searching for the Ukrainian Sukhoi fighter.
“They say the Sukhoi (Fighter) brought down the civilian plane and ours (Jim Dean: they could only be talking about a Russian plane) brought down the fighter,” the transcript quotes some commander as saying.”
“Background: The fighter jet brought down this one, and our people brought down the fighter.”
“Background: They decided to do it this way, to look like we have brought down the plane.”
The transcript also said that while the fighters were examining the site of the crash of the civilian plane, there was another crash site, presumably that of the fighter.
“The Sukhoi brought down the plane and we brought down the Sukhoi.
Is it far from here? Where did it fall?
Looks like … Where’s the smoke coming from?
Somewhere else is burning, the 49 village.
I mean … the two pilots landed with parachutes.”
The website however prefers not to notice the evidence of the existence of a second plane, which shot down the Boeing. It mostly concentrates on the people examining the remains of the Boeing and stubbornly insists that it was shot down with the surface-to-air missile.
Russia Today Report(RT) A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.
The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.
The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.
Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crewmembers aboard.
The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.
The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.
The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.
Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.
The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.
Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.
The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.
Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.
All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy..
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor (http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/gordonduff/) on April 25, 2016
VT was right again: Read today's announcement and learn the facts by reading the hidden history of this tragedy below
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MH-17-banner-crop-640x246.jpg
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 that crashed in eastern Ukraine in 2014 could have been downed by a Ukrainian fighter jet, a BBC documentary will claim. We begin:
‘You can’t fire Buk missile in broad daylight with no witnesses’
___________
RT Report (2015) Speculation about the combat capabilities of the SU-25 jet stem from the Russian definition of the aircraft’s service ceiling – which is not the same as its absolute ceiling, as defined by the US military, Veterans Today senior editor Gordon Duff told RT.
“The claimed service ceiling is based on the oxygen supply in the aircraft. Now, there is a claim that this plane [SU-25] will only work to 22,000 feet. At the end of World War II, a German ME-262 would fly at 40,000 feet, a P-51 Mustang propeller plane flew at 44,000 feet. The SU-25 was developed as an analogue of the A-10 Thunderbolt, an American attack plane. The planes have almost identical performance, except that the SU-25 is faster and more powerful. The A-10 Thunderbolt has a service ceiling of 45,000 feet. The US estimates the absolute ceiling, which is a different term,” Duff explained.
“Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.”
It is highly unlikely that the launch of such a missile would have gone unnoticed in the area, Duff stressed, adding that the trail left by the rocket in the air would have been witnessed and filmed by “thousands.”
“One of the things we settled on early on is that in the middle of the day, if this were a Buk missile, the contrail would have been seen for 50 miles [80km]. The contrail itself would have been photographed by thousands of people; it would have been on Instagram, on Twitter, it would have been all over YouTube – and no one saw it. You can’t fire a missile on a flat area in the middle of the day leaving a smoke trail into the air and having everyone not see it,” Duff said.
“There is no reliable information supporting that it was a Buk missile fired by anyone,” he added.
http://cdn1.img.sputniknews.com/images/102932/64/1029326457.jpg
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The plane carrying 298 people crashed while en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, killing everyone on board. A Dutch-led inquiry concluded last year it had been blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile.
But the UK broadcaster’s program “Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17?” will explore the possibility that the Boeing-777 was shot down by a fighter jet.
“There are eyewitness accounts of other aircrafts seen flying next to MH17 close to impact,” BBC says on a webpage for the documentary.
The program, which will air May 3, took evidence from eye witnesses, experts and secret intelligence sources as well as studied satellite photographs, wire taps, and videos in an attempt to sort fact from fiction in many conspiracy theories involving Ukraine, Russia and CIA.
from the BBC official website:
The Conspiracy Files: Who Shot Down MH17?
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/corporate2/images/width/live/p0/3q/8x/p03q8x13.jpg/624
Confirmed for BBC Two on 3 May at 9pm to 10pm
Ep 1/1, Tuesday 3 May
9.00pm-10.00pm BBC TWO
On 17 July 2014, Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed, killing 298 passengers in the worst air disaster for two decades.
Alarmingly, the devastating crash occurred just four months after the mysterious disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370. Is this just a coincidence? The cause of the crash has been focus of a host of conspiracy theories, many of which involve Russia, Ukraine and the CIA.
The official investigation report into MH17 flight argues that only a powerful ground-to-air missile could be responsible. Yet, there are eyewitness accounts of other aircrafts seen flying next to MH17 close to impact. To further fuel the conspiracies, Russia and Ukraine blame each other but both countries are unable to provide all the critical radar data from that day.
Family members do not trust the official explanations and there is a long way to go to bring about justice for the victims. This programme tracks down eye witnesses, and speaks with secret intelligence sources to try to sort fact from fiction. Don’t miss this compelling Conspiracy Files unfold to see whether the mystery can be unravelled.
From Veterans Today, October 13, 2015
Today, Dutch investigators came up with their long predetermined solution, that a BUK missile shot down MH17 no matter how impossible that might be. Any other answer would have brought down NATO.
The Kiev backed SU25 pilots following MH17 “from below” have never admitted to seeing anything though the plane, according to them, nearly fell on them.
Then again, the American AEGIS radar imagery, units, one in Constanta and two more on ships in the Black Sea, though they recorded everything, was withheld along with American satellite imagery. Only one answer for this, because they recorded planes shooting down MH17 as is consistent with the German report.
Other than the simple issue of impossibility, there is rock solid evidence that MH17 was trailed by two SU25 aircraft that Kiev claimed could not be responsible because they were not capable of flight at altitude. In the below article, based on live interviews on Russia Today, pilots debunked this, pilots who have flown the SU25 to nearly 50,000 feet.
This is the crux of the story. The other “crux” of the story is not only the predetermined insanity the Dutch have come up with, long expected, but the behavior of the media, including the very weak Russian media, Russia Today, Sputnik News among others, who quickly lose focus.
This is a story all about control of the media. From Russia Today, March 12, 2015:
“Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.”
As the investigation into the MH17 tragedy continues in eastern Ukraine, the SU-25’s chief designer has told German media that the fighter jet could not possibly have taken down the passenger plane. RT spoke to former pilots about the jet’s capabilities.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed down over rebel-held eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Everyone on board – 283 passengers and 15 crew members – perished in the tragedy.
A report on the official investigation published in September 2014 said the crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside. However, it did not conclude what the objects were, where they came from, or who was responsible.
http://img.rt.com/files/news/36/23/f0/00/plane-crash.n.jpg (http://rt.com/news/221759-lavrov-ukraine-plane-crash/)
Kiev and some Western states have placed blame on eastern Ukraine militias and Russia. The Russian Defense Ministry shared radar data pointing to other possibilities in July – including an attack by a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet, which was said to have been tracking the passenger plane.
While an official international investigation into the crash has been dragging on for nine months, the debate into the cause of the tragedy has been once again reignited by recent comments from the chief designer of the SU-25.
Kiev-born Soviet and Russian aircraft designer Vladimir Babak said on Monday that the SU-25 jet – which was spotted tracking the MH17 Boeing at the moment it crashed down – did not have the capability to shoot down a passenger plane. He said the fighter jet could have successfully attacked the Boeing at an altitude of 3,000-4,000 meters, but not at the plane’s altitude of 10,500 meters. He added that air-to-air missiles would have only damaged the Boeing – not completely destroyed it while still in the air.
http://rt.com/files/news/3a/90/90/00/mh17.jpg
At the crash site of of the Malaysian Boeing 777 near the village of Grabovo not far from Shakhtersk in the Donetsk region. (RIA Novosti)
“I believe all allegations that a SU-25 could be involved into this tragedy are a cover-up attempt,” Babak said in an interview to German channels NDR and WDR. “I cannot explain it otherwise. We cannot understand how an SU-25 could take down the Boeing.”
‘SU-25 capable of high altitude flights, can carry powerful missiles’
However, several former top officials and SU-25 pilots disagree with Babak.
Based on the analysis of the plane debris and the nature of the damage, there is a high probability the plane was stuck by an air-to-air missile and an aircraft gun, Lieutenant General Aleksandr Maslov, former deputy chief of the Russian Air Defense and Land Forces, told RT.
“The published photos [from the MH17 crash site] enable to assume that the Boeing was downed by a military jet. Besides that, the existing damage indicates that the airplane was shot with air-to-air missiles together with an aircraft gun with a 30mm caliber,” Maslov said.
Claims that the passenger plane was downed by a surface-to-air Buk missile “cannot be supported,” as the nature of the damage from the missiles is different, he added.
Commenting on the jet’s ability to maneuver at higher altitudes, the former commander of an aviation division, Major General Sergey Borysyuk, noted that the jet would have had the capability to “maneuver comfortably,” even at such a high altitude.
“I personally flew, and not once, at an altitude of 12,000 meters…,” he said. “My colleagues have risen to an altitude of 14,000 meters. The altitude of 10,500 was officially authorized during operations in Afghanistan. Therefore the plane, even at an altitude of 12,000 meters, has the capability to maneuver comfortably, its aerodynamic characteristics enable it to do so.”
Borysyuk explained that the R-60 missiles on the SU-25 have an infrared homing and a rod warhead. Citing the nature of the plane’s debris and the “precisely sliced fuselage,” he said that R-60 missiles were possibly used.
“The firing range of the missile is 7.5km. And in those conditions, the probability of hitting the target increases,” he added.
http://img.rt.com/files/news/2a/9a/00/00/malaysia-crash-russia-questions-.n.jpg (http://rt.com/news/174496-malaysia-crash-russia-questions/)
The former chief commander of Russia’s Air Force, Vladimir Mikhailov, also said he flew the SU-25, reaching an altitude of 12,000 meters and even 14,000 meters. He also stated that the plane “comfortably maneuvers” at such heights.
“If the plane was downed by Buk [missile defense system], it would have almost immediately fallen to pieces in the air and we could not have witnessed such large debris on the ground,” he said.
Along with Russia’s Ministry of Defense, he also questioned why the MH17 flight stayed within the flying corridor until it reached Donetsk, but then deviated from the route to the north.
In July 2014, Russia’s Ministry of Defense presented military monitoring data which showed Kiev military jets tracking MH17 shortly before the crash and posed a set of questions to Ukraine over the circumstances of the tragedy, which have still not been answered.
‘You can’t fire Buk missile in broad daylight with no witnesses’
Speculation about the combat capabilities of the SU-25 jet stem from the Russian definition of the aircraft’s service ceiling – which is not the same as its absolute ceiling, as defined by the US military, Veterans Today senior editor Gordon Duff told RT.
“The claimed service ceiling is based on the oxygen supply in the aircraft. Now, there is a claim that this plane [SU-25] will only work to 22,000 feet. At the end of World War II, a German ME-262 would fly at 40,000 feet, a P-51 Mustang propeller plane flew at 44,000 feet. The SU-25 was developed as an analogue of the A-10 Thunderbolt, an American attack plane. The planes have almost identical performance, except that the SU-25 is faster and more powerful. The A-10 Thunderbolt has a service ceiling of 45,000 feet. The US estimates the absolute ceiling, which is a different term,” Duff explained.
The known estimate for the absolute ceiling of the SU-25 is 52,000 feet (15.8km), he added.
Moreover, Duff said one cannot be entirely sure the detected fighter jet was an SU-25 at all, as modern radar spoofing counter-measures – such as those designed by BAE Systems and employed by NATO – are able to mask any other aircraft, be it an SU-27 or F-15, as another plane.
Duff said he also discussed the possibility of the MH17 flight having been shot by a ground-to-air missile with experts from the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration), the FBI, the Air Line Pilots Association, as well as air traffic and air operational officers – and they all agreed that no proof of anti-aircraft missile use has been provided to the public.
It is highly unlikely that the launch of such a missile would have gone unnoticed in the area, Duff stressed, adding that the trail left by the rocket in the air would have been witnessed and filmed by “thousands.”
“One of the things we settled on early on is that in the middle of the day, if this were a Buk missile, the contrail would have been seen for 50 miles [80km]. The contrail itself would have been photographed by thousands of people; it would have been on Instagram, on Twitter, it would have been all over YouTube – and no one saw it. You can’t fire a missile on a flat area in the middle of the day leaving a smoke trail into the air and having everyone not see it,” Duff said.
“There is no reliable information supporting that it was a Buk missile fired by anyone,” he added.
Veterans Today’s July 17 Article:
“On 9/11, the infamous “Harley guy,” a Fox News employee wearing a Harley Davidson t shirt was interviewed moments after the triple towers vaporized. He described in detail exactly what the findings, absurd as they seem today, would be to the public 9/11 report released many years later. In fact, he was the real author of that farcical document.
On MH 17 we get a new “Harley guy” every couple of weeks, with a veritable army of them hitting the streets today, straining our patience, all peddling the same equally farcical “BUK missile” talking points.”
Editor’s note: You have just seen 4 minutes of a 17 minute video. News Corp (Murdoch) claims the complete video asserts that MH 17 was shot down by a plane. Why this video, shot by crash site investigators making some effort to secure the scene, has been held for a year is inexcusable. Stories about how the scene was protected and what went on there are now proven utterly false. VT has the story right in August 2014. Read the initial VT story here (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/06/315291/) followed by reports from Sputnik News and Russia Today. VT staffers are standing by waiting for the website to crash.
VT Exclusive: As the day progresses, a “toad and troll” media war has erupted along with massive denial of service attacks on Veterans Today. The BUK missile story that from the first ignored the fact that Kiev routed MH17 purposefully over a “no fly combat zone” is being peddled by not only the paid stooges of Israeli agent Jane Harmon’s Daily Beast but armies of misfits, pedophiles, chat room trolls and paid off military retirees.
We take this, the after the fact disinformation campaign, so stupidly orchestrated, and the wealth of evidence, only some of which is outlined below, that Israel had a clear hand in the downing of MH17 and quite probably MH 370 as well. They got “two birds with one stone” with MH 17, a blow against two enemies, Russia and Malaysia.
Everything made public about MH 17 has been a lie. New evidence supports two planes being shot down, MH 17 and the fighter that shot it down…shot down by what now appears to be a Russian fighter in Ukrainian air space, scrambled to defend MH 17. Two pilots of the SU25 bailed out before crash according to witness statements withheld for a year.
There is precedent for Russians defending Eastern Ukraine from air attacks. Russian pilots defended North Vietnam as well during the Vietnam War and American pilots flew missions over Israel, Syria and Egypt in the 1973 War and may well be flying unofficial missions on behalf of al Nusra or ISIS groups fighting inside Syria and Iraq as well.
Russia and its separatist allies withheld vital facts on MH17 because a Russian plane downed the Kiev (Israeli armed according to RT) Sukhoi 25 that shot down the airliner. The US and others with access to the crash scenes and satellite photos covered up the second crash site. Was it because the arms were Israeli? Was this done to block the public from learning how broad involvement was and how many nations were to blame for the MH 17 shoot down?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fff_599.jpg (http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/fff_599.jpg)
Israeli Python missile cited in report
Why was this video withheld? Where was it all this time? Why is Murdoch, of all people, ordering it released now? How long has Murdoch known about it? What other evidence is being withheld? With the US having both AWAC and AEGIS cover for this region, why has the United States failed to release its evidence unless, as is so often the case, Americans working for Israel had reason to withhold this vital evidence.
Sputnik News Report including transcript of censored video
In Utter Disbelief
Meanwhile, the Australian news outlet News.com.au has published what it claims to be the transcript of the ”17-minute video shot by the rebels themselves on a camcorder as they captured what they initially believed to be a Ukrainian air force fighter jet they had just shot down”.
The website however has posted only a 4-minute video extract but published what it claims to be the transcript of the full version.
If true, the conversations made on camera prove that the alleged self-defense fighters arrived at the site of the Boeing crash searching for the Ukrainian Sukhoi fighter.
“They say the Sukhoi (Fighter) brought down the civilian plane and ours (Jim Dean: they could only be talking about a Russian plane) brought down the fighter,” the transcript quotes some commander as saying.”
“Background: The fighter jet brought down this one, and our people brought down the fighter.”
“Background: They decided to do it this way, to look like we have brought down the plane.”
The transcript also said that while the fighters were examining the site of the crash of the civilian plane, there was another crash site, presumably that of the fighter.
“The Sukhoi brought down the plane and we brought down the Sukhoi.
Is it far from here? Where did it fall?
Looks like … Where’s the smoke coming from?
Somewhere else is burning, the 49 village.
I mean … the two pilots landed with parachutes.”
The website however prefers not to notice the evidence of the existence of a second plane, which shot down the Boeing. It mostly concentrates on the people examining the remains of the Boeing and stubbornly insists that it was shot down with the surface-to-air missile.
Russia Today Report(RT) A report on Malaysian Airlines MH17 air disaster in Ukraine last year by a group of old-hand aviation security experts maintains that the Boeing might have been downed by an Israeli Python air-to-air missile.
The report was leaked via the private LiveJournal account of Albert Naryshkin (aka albert_lex) late on Tuesday and has already been widely discussed by social media communities in Russia.
The authors of the investigative report have calculated the possible detonation initiation point of the missile that hit the passenger aircraft and approximate number and weight of strike elements, which in turn designated the type and presumed manufacturer of the weapon.
Malaysian Airline Boeing 777-200 performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014, crashed on the territory of Ukraine near the village of Grabovo, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crewmembers aboard.
The aircraft disintegrated in the air and the debris of MH17 were scattered across an area of about 50 sq. km.
The external view of MH17 hull pieces indicates that “fragments of the pilots’ cockpit have suffered specific damages in the form of localized puncture holes and surface dents typical for hypervelocity impacts with compact and hard objects,” the report says, stressing that similar damage could be found on the inner side of the cockpit.
The report specifically points out that chips of the body coat around the holes in the fragment are typical of wave effects created by hypervelocity impacts.
Some damage, though larger and less clustered, could be found near the air-scoop of the left-wing engine of the aircraft.
The nature of the damage allows for the identification of the source as a high-explosive fragmentation warhead from a modern anti-aircraft weapon, claims the report.
Apart from the large puncture holes, the debris of the nose and the cockpit of the aircraft bear a large number of scattered micro-craters resulting from the impact of high-velocity dust and tiny debris, such as an unburnt blasting agent and elements of the ordnance that accompany a shock wave from a blast that occurred very close to the target. In the case of MH17, the pilots’ cockpit.
The report says that as a rule, the initial speed of the striking elements of modern anti-aircraft weapons vary between 1,500 and 2,500 meters per second.
Altogether, the experts considered photos of five fragments of the cockpit and left port of the flight MH17, on which they counted some 230 “battle-damage” holes and punctures.
All this considered, the experts claim that the exact zone of the blast impact could be established with a fair degree of accuracy..