Living in a van or SUV? [Archive]

Glass

5th May 2016, 11:44 PM

the GSUS consensus seems to be that a prius is the perfect bug out vehicle. :confused:

VW Caddy - long version is/was being used by one GSUS'er as a camper van. It's certainly do-able. I'd be doing it if I wasn't tied to something.

A pilot would be a good base to get started. A lot of people down here deck out their 4WD all bodies - same style as yours with a set of drawers in the back. Takes maybe 6 - 8 inches of height out, but you get a couple slide out draws and a few cubby holes around the wheel arches. Carpet surface on top of the drawers. Mattress and you are good to go.

If you are one person you might do away with rear seats and even the front passenger seat.

Here is an aussie company that makes drawers as an example. I'm sure you guys can get these kind a things.
http://www.drifta.com.au/4wd-drawers/

http://www.drifta.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/120-Prado-Storage-Drawers-Package04-300x225.jpg

I like camper trailers which are 6x4 trailers with a lid on them and a tent on the lid. A ton of different styles etc. You can order just the tent and fit it to any suitable trailer. You can up rate the trailer for offroad. Carry all the same stuff as a caravan but less cost.

vacuum

6th May 2016, 12:29 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n00dM_TZHkg

Hitch

6th May 2016, 07:18 AM

Curious what the wisdom is of stuff like this guy:

http://www.cheaprvliving.com

I have a large-ish SUV (like Honda Pilot) and I think I could do it, provided I get rid of some of my many books. Gonna try to camp out a night or two over the next week. Give up my apartment and hit the road (I have to drive to a particular one of the USA coasts anyways to clean out my old storage unit).

What do the gurus of GSUS think of this? Anyone done it?

You could always get a kindle and start downloading books on to it, that would save a lot of room.

I've done something similar to this, but in a small RV. Now, what I do is a big difference than in a prius or small van. I couldn't do the small van thing, I would be miserable. A couple things I've learned and would not give up. You don't need a lot of space, but to be able to get out of bed and stand up and stretch in the morning while still inside the vehicle, to me I could not give up. Also, to make coffee and breakfast while still inside the vehicle is extremely important. Another, would be a functioning head, even a small portapotti would be fine.

Regarding boondocking, that's primarily what I do when I travel in the RV. RV parks are expensive and noisy, and I don't need the hookups anyway. Rest areas are pretty good for one night. Also, as much as I hate wallyworld, you can park in their parking lots for the night. Also, camping world allows that too. The hard part is finding a place to park for multiple nights, other than state campgrounds which charge a small fee, likely you'll be boondocking in different spots each night.

ShortJohnSilver

6th May 2016, 09:57 PM

I appreciate the comments.

I would like to have more space and a toilet and shower. I have seen some RVs that are basically a large conversion van, build on the full sized vans such as Ford Econoline E250 or the equivalent Dodge etc.

However:

1. I don't want to have such a large RV that I can't easily drive it somewhere as a regular vehicle; because I don't want to tow a smaller vehicle and then have to worry about 2 vehicles to license and carry insurance for.

2. My current SUV is literally 1 payment away from being paid in full for.

3. I could only buy used, even if I sold my current SUV ,and that means learning a whole bunch more about maintenance etc. that I don't feel I want to bother with.

I have a Planet Fitness membership and at least some of the places I go will have those gyms around. I can go in, work out a bit, then take a shower.

This will take more planning and stuff to buy, for sure. I will update you guys as it happens.

ShortJohnSilver

6th May 2016, 10:26 PM

There are others doing this (in addition to the tech guy above).

This guy I guess had some issues and ended up broke and homeless (which for me , won't happen because I have a bunch of savings).

http://homelessalone.blogspot.com/

The site got mentioned on this popular discussion site and others came out of the woodwork:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11645401

The comments about the guy doing his startup while living in a van are kind of interesting ... of course, I need to avoid ending up like any of those!

vacuum

6th May 2016, 10:31 PM

I have a Planet Fitness membership and at least some of the places I go will have those gyms around. I can go in, work out a bit, then take a shower.

Pretty much any gym will offer you a free trial membership. So all you have to do is find a local gym and get the free membership and you are good for a month.

I have seen some RVs that are basically a large conversion van, build on the full sized vans such as Ford Econoline E250 or the equivalent Dodge etc.

These are known as "Class B" or "Class C" vans.

Check out this guy's channel. He has a wealth of info.

https://www.youtube.com/user/AClarino/videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzalNp_jTqk

Jewboo

6th May 2016, 11:28 PM

This guy I guess had some issues and ended up broke and homeless (which for me , won't happen because I have a bunch of savings).

Back in the 80's I did it in a Ford Econoline for three summer months. British Columbia, Alberta, Utah, Nevada, California. Overnight at any Wallyworld parking lot. State and Federal campgrounds. Occasional motel for the pool and shower. Back then it was reasonably safe and sane. I wouldn't even consider it now in Nevada or California or near any city. Remote rest stops have always been dangerous. We are talking summer RVing on the cheap here not homelessness.

Living in a vehicle these days broke and homeless is dangerous in or near any city. Broke and homeless you are better off selling the vehicle and safer in a Christian Rescue Mission in a White town. Three hots and a cot until you get back on your employed feet.

YMCA has always been a very good deal for showers and swimming pool and gym and lockers. They charge based on income.

2016 ain't as safe as the 80's...better off now RVing with an armed sidekick.

http://images.zaazu.com/img/beggar-beggar-hobo-homeless-smiley-emoticon-000589-fbook.gif

Hitch

7th May 2016, 06:18 AM

Good tips. Regarding rest stops, yes they can be dangerous and generally not recommended. Use your own diligence. That being said, I've used them a lot. Mostly when logging a lot of miles on the road. I don't hang out at them, just stop for the night, eat, sleep and get back on the road first light in the morning. I've never once had an issue.

That being said, I use a lot of caution. The key is finding the place to park at rest stops. Don't park next to the facilities, where people come and go. Find a spot out of the way of truckers, but somewhat near them. You want truckers coming and going, if there a lot of truckers at the rest stop, you should be fine. Also, ideal find a spot under a light pole. Well lit, all around your RV is a very good safety precaution. Also, listen to your gut. If you pull into a rest stop, or anywhere for the night, if it's dark, or run down, or anything seems "off" just keep going until you find a spot that feels right.

The advantage of having a camper van or RV, is that when you shut the vehicle off, and take the keys out of the ignition, it becomes a "home" for the night. Granted you are parked in a good spot for the night (don't ever even think about parking anywhere near a school), you can take your gun out of it's locked case, load it, and keep it on you. Also, have a fresh can of bear pepper spray near where you sleep. After all, it is a camper, and self defense you can use any tool you have to protect your life.

palani

7th May 2016, 06:40 AM

if there a lot of truckers at the rest stop, you should be fine.

Salt of the earth types?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/05/local/me-serialkillers5

FBI makes a connection between long-haul truckers, serial killings
A bureau database includes more than 500 female victims, most of whom were killed and their bodies dumped at truck stops, motels and other spots along popular trucking routes crisscrossing the U.S.
April 05, 2009|Scott Glover

The FBI suspects that serial killers working as long-haul truckers are responsible for the slayings of hundreds of prostitutes, hitchhikers and stranded motorists whose bodies have been dumped near highways over the last three decades.

Federal authorities first made the connection about five years ago while helping police link a trucker to a string of unsolved killings along Interstate 40 in Oklahoma and several other states. After that, the FBI launched the Highway Serial Killings Initiative to track suspicious slayings and suspect truckers.

A computer database maintained by the FBI has grown to include information on more than 500 female crime victims, most of whom were killed and their bodies discarded at truck stops, motels and other locations along popular trucking routes crisscrossing the U.S.

The database also has information on scores of truckers who've been charged with killings or rapes committed near highways or who are suspects in such crimes, officials said. Authorities said they do not have statistics on whether driving trucks ranks high on the list of occupations of known serial killers.

singular_me

7th May 2016, 11:57 AM

good idea, planning on selling my 1500 dodge truck and buying a van after the summer. Will not have to worry about parking as we'll be able to use a relative's property/land.

Hitch

7th May 2016, 05:33 PM

This is a pretty good video to watch. If you are living out of a van/car, you will be stealth camping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpoF9QQuyb0

Cebu_4_2

7th May 2016, 06:12 PM

This is a pretty good video to watch. If you are living out of a van/car, you will be stealth camping.

Pretty good insight!

vacuum

7th May 2016, 06:28 PM

This is a pretty good video to watch. If you are living out of a van/car, you will be stealth camping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpoF9QQuyb0

This is what is good about the prius.

1) You won't be sweating at night. It has AC you can run all night.

2) It is the most inconspicuous vehicle.

3) Even if a neighbor saw a light on....they probably wouldn't call the cops. It's a prius. Nothing suspicious could be going on inside of it because it's so small.

4) If you ever talk to cops, you can always fall back on saying that you are just say you are trying to reduce your carbon footprint and be in tune more with nature. That's why you are sleeping in your prius. That's why you have a prius.

The camper van is a magnet for cops as this guy has illustrated. He said that before he got his class B van, he had zero run-ins with cops in his vanilla van.

Of course the downside is less space inside the vehicle. Also, easier for someone to attack you. Better fuel efficiency though.

Hitch

7th May 2016, 06:53 PM

EE_

7th May 2016, 06:58 PM

vacuum

7th May 2016, 07:15 PM

I'd offer a challenge. Spend one full day, inside your Prius, and see if you feel the same way. I just can't imagine it, and I'm used to living in small spaces. My RV is 19 feet, she will fit into a parking spot. Inside, I can stand up, stretch, cook a meal, take a dump or take a shower, I have room to do sit-ups and pushups if I want to exercise the muscles.

There will be times where you will be, and want to be, just safe inside. Being sick, rainy rough weather. When it's your home, you have no place else to go. If I'm sick, I can make a cup of tea, turn on the furnace I've got heat, relax at a table with my laptop, or read a book on my kindle, toasty, comfy and warm. I don't need to go outside. I never feel trapped inside my little RV, just protected. I even have 240 watts solar mounted on the roof.

Just try to spend more than a few hours stuck inside a prius. Life is too short to live like that. In theory, yes the idea is a grand one. Practically speaking, people have limits and comfort levels.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I consider it more of a shtf option rather than something you want to live out of. And you don't live "in" a prius, you live "out of" it. You are in society all the time because of that fact.

That said, I am considering living in one for a few days a week. I spend a lot of time commuting to my house. Why not spend a few days a week not even worrying about commuting?

The other thing is, I feel that I waste a lot of time staying in my house doing nothing instead of going outside and doing stuff. If living out of a prius, you decide to go outside and do something after about 10 minutes. Not necessarily good every day, but a few days a week sounds interesting.

And one final thing. I think it would help me sleep better. I wouldn't be staying up late and sleeping in late. I would essentially go to bed after dark and wake up when it got sunny.

Hitch

7th May 2016, 07:32 PM

That said, I am considering living in one for a few days a week. I spend a lot of time commuting to my house. Why not spend a few days a week not even worrying about commuting?

Give it a try and let us know! That is the best way, just do it. I hear about needing to get outdoors, my RV is small enough to make me want to go outside, fishing, etc, but big enough to where I just don't have to if I don't feel like it. There's times for both.

woodman

8th May 2016, 08:14 AM

Glass

8th May 2016, 08:15 AM

vans are shelter. that means out of the weather and away from bugs/animals at night. rest of the time you should be either outside or driving somewhere to be outside.

was watching mcycle test rides. this guy was wanting an indian and I was figuring this was what he was going to reveal as new ride. nope. totally different track. I hope he does some build up videos. I think the bike will end up on a trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbhTedm2rg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQbhTedm2rg

Glass

8th May 2016, 08:21 AM

I also like this idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIG9P0lB1iA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIG9P0lB1iA

Hitch

8th May 2016, 08:40 AM

Hitch, can you post a picture of your camper? Or maybe just a description beyond 19'? I am very interested in this discussion and living on the move in general. As most of you know, I do a lot of travel in my work and I'm just not into staying at motels for a myriad of reasons. The one problem I have with rv's is the toxic materials that may be present. I wonder if there is a way to rate the safety of a given product.

Hi woodman, my RV is pretty much identical to this one. One exception, was in mine they got rid of the carpeting and installed hardwood flooring. That makes it very easy to clean up.

http://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/B-%26-L-RV-2898066/listing/1996-Fleetwood-Tioga-Walkabout-117513021

Hitch

8th May 2016, 08:46 AM

vans are shelter. that means out of the weather and away from bugs/animals at night. rest of the time you should be either outside or driving somewhere to be outside.

This is the big problem with stealth camping. Most of the time you can't be outside. It's not like you can roll up into some parking lot in the prius, fire up the bbq, pull out the fake green grass, the plastic pink flamingos and kick back outside with your board shorts on and flip flops.

Hitch

8th May 2016, 09:02 AM

Also, a great place to stealth camp, stay for free when traveling, is casino parking lots. Park in the far corner under a light pole. Casino's are open 24 hours a day, have security in the parking lots for safety, they assume you are either gambling inside, or staying in the hotel.

Some have specific RV parking, but it's better if they don't. Security may ask you to move to the RV parking, and charge you a nightly fee, usually $10. If there is no specific RV parking, and your rig doesn't take up more than a parking spot, no problems ever. In Reno, I stayed downtown for several nights in a row without any issues at all.

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 09:16 AM

Hitch

8th May 2016, 09:33 AM

True. Not so with hospital parking lots. Nurses would report the evil male monster hiding in a vehicle just waiting to kidnap and rape them.

LOL, yeah, definitely no hospitals. You explained it well earlier in this thread, anywhere in a big city is risking it. City parks, a definite no as well, because kids playing, etc. Not even remotely close to a school, ever. Be several blocks away at the very least.

The best places are well lit big parking lots, and park far away from all the foot traffic and other vehicles. Parking under a light pole is a great tip. Not only for safety, but all the light around the RV hides the lights I have on in the vehicle. From the outside, you can't see any light coming out of the RV because of the light pole.

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 10:05 AM

From the outside, you can't see any light coming out of the RV because of the light pole.

http://choosedirections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/car11.png

http://img.allw.mn/content/iu/zw/h8fl1b9x56561bafe9f51988340056.jpg

In small vans and suvs, the cops and security can easily notice when the windows get fogged up due to our warm moist breath in cold weather. True stealth isn't easy.

Hitch

8th May 2016, 10:23 AM

http://choosedirections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/car11.png

In small vans and suvs, the cops and security can easily notice when the windows get fogged up due to our warm moist breath in cold weather. True stealth isn't easy.

The fogged up windows also screams creepy van rapist, or a sleazy guy with a prostitute, etc. You know, come to think about it, this is maybe why an actual RV is good and why I've only had any problems a couple of times. Sure, it's not stealthy. But with an RV, if it's clean and taken care of, I think people look and think about an old retired couple. Who wants to bother grandma and grandpa. But a van, especially with fogged windows, creeps people out. Then they call the cops, or security.

Dogman

8th May 2016, 10:27 AM

Unless the RV was built to Canadian standards for cold weather use with double pane windows which=no fogging and less heat loss which also means with good insulation = less heat penetration in summer!

Sent from my Nexus 7

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 10:29 AM

The fogged up windows also screams creepy van rapist, or a sleazy guy with a prostitute, etc. You know, come to think about it, this maybe why an actual RV is good and why I've only had any problems a couple of times. With an RV, if it's clean and taken care of, I think people look and think about an old retired couple. Who wants to bother grandma and grandpa. But a van, especially with fogged windows, creeps people out. Then they call the cops, or security.

No commercial business wants "Freeloaders" using their parking lot. Stealth camping is basically freeloading...sneaking the resources belonging to others who bear the cost.

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/sometimes-need-helping-hand/ (http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/sometimes-need-helping-hand/) = parasites

Hitch

8th May 2016, 10:41 AM

No business wants "Freeloaders" using their parking lot. Stealth camping is basically freeloading...sneaking the resources belonging to others who bear the cost.

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/ = parasites

I've found most businesses don't care actually. If you stay for only one night, leave first thing in the morning and leave no trace, most places are pretty cool about it. If it's a concern, you can always ask and get permission. Businesses like walmart and stores like RV folks, because they become customers.

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 11:06 AM

I've found most businesses don't care actually.

The OWNER and bill-payer of those businesses care. Maybe not their hourly employees so much.

Hitch

8th May 2016, 12:25 PM

The OWNER and bill-payer of those businesses care. Maybe not their hourly employees so much.

Well, I know hotels obviously care, they want you to get a room. I've asked for permission a couple of times, and paid $10 to park for the night.

I wonder if store owner's have liability concerns about what happens in the parking lots. I know if you slip on a wet floor inside the store, it is a concern for the owner, but what about parking lots? Does liability extend out past the doors of the store?

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 12:33 PM

Well, I know hotels obviously care, they want you to get a room. I've asked for permission a couple of times, and paid $10 to park for the night.

I wonder if store owner's have liability concerns about what happens in the parking lots. I know if you slip on a wet floor inside the store, it is a concern for the owner, but what about parking lots? Does liability extend out past the doors of the store?

Not a question of insurance liability. Nobody likes Freeloaders. That simple.

I'm sympathetic to a young man's desire to do the Walden Pond simple living thingie. Many resent having to pay somebody rent when the Earth is so big...lol. Problem is every square inch of Earth is now "owned" by somebody. Every. Square. Inch.

Hitch

8th May 2016, 12:50 PM

Not a question of insurance liability. Nobody likes Freeloaders. That simple.

I'm sympathetic to a young man's desire to do the Walden Pond simple living thingie. Many resent having to pay somebody rent when the Earth is so big...lol. Problem is every square inch of Earth is now "owned" by somebody. Every. Square. Inch.

It's good to think about these things before attempting any stealth camping. It's hard to park somewhere for the night without the nagging worry of offending someone. Maybe that's why I like rest areas. Nobody can say shit, it's a rest area, it was made for travelers to park and rest. you just have deal with the danger factor. Campgrounds are worth the money as well, beautiful areas, campfires, bbqs, etc.

To really travel, I mean constantly, without paying anything and in stealth is damn near impossible these days.

Jewboo

8th May 2016, 01:05 PM

It's good to think about these things before attempting any stealth camping. It's hard to park somewhere for the night without the nagging worry of offending someone. Maybe that's why I like rest areas. Nobody can say shit, it's a rest area, it was made for travelers to park and rest. you just have deal with the danger factor. Campgrounds are worth the money as well, beautiful areas, campfires, bbqs, etc.

To really travel, I mean constantly, without paying anything and in stealth is damn near impossible these days.

It is impossible. A young man's delusion.

:)

vacuum

8th May 2016, 01:43 PM

http://choosedirections.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/car11.png

In small vans and suvs, the cops and security can easily notice when the windows get fogged up due to our warm moist breath in cold weather. True stealth isn't easy.

What you have to do is get wind deflectors and crack all your windows an inch.

https://i.sli.mg/ftwSbX.jpg

https://i.sli.mg/8uBQXE.jpg

Glass

8th May 2016, 05:31 PM

This is the big problem with stealth camping. Most of the time you can't be outside. It's not like you can roll up into some parking lot in the prius, fire up the bbq, pull out the fake green grass, the plastic pink flamingos and kick back outside with your board shorts on and flip flops.

How did this thread become only about stealth? The OP just wanted to do away with his need for a lease AND hit the road and travel. If your'e gonna live innner city, then sure, be careful, move around. Don't give the po-po the chance to think, hang on, I saw that van last 3 days in that spot

If you're going to travel and camp go to camping spots. OR camp off the side of the road a ways. maybe you can't do that over there like you can here. granted it would be some where very remote. No people or farms etc for hundreds of miles.

If you're camping for the impending appocalypse, at some point urban stealth is not going to be important. Other things will be. If I was camping in the city, I'd have a delivery van decked out and move about a bit. Mingle with other cars parked on the street. No one is going to notice you for a couple days. I see plenty of people camping in vans around the city, they move here and there. some are box vans and others are mini bus type vans.

I'd even go so far as putting some "fake" business stickers on the side. Maybe even a phone number going to a voicemail or something. Hide in plain sight.

Hitch

8th May 2016, 05:57 PM

Glass, if anyone decides to camp out in a Prius, they want stealth. By their actions, that is what they want. If they didn't, they would choose a vehicle with a bit more creature comforts.

Not knocking the Prius campers...but, a box van with 'Hitch's fresh fish' on the side, no windows, would be ideal.

Bottom line, you can't cook, in a Prius. You can't stand up in one, either. You could, in a TSHTF situation, survive in one, sure, but you'd be pretty miserable the whole time. In times like NOW, don't choose misery. Prepare for it, sure, but don't seek it out.

Glass

8th May 2016, 08:21 PM

I think we can all take away some ideas from these guys. This is just some highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7g08nwEmyY
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7g08nwEmyY

For the full video on these incredible, functional and stealthy campers: Part 1 of 3 (http://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy-clarkson/motorhomes-challenge-part-13-series-15-episode-4)

palani

9th May 2016, 04:06 AM

every square inch of Earth is now "owned" by somebody. Every. Square. Inch.
Odd. I look out around my environment and I see no land owned by anyone. You see if you are bankrupt you own nothing. Evidence of your bankruptcy is your refusal to extinguish your debts. That means you have abandoned the concept of 'ownership' in favor of the benefit of discharging your debts instead of extinguishing them.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" ends up having pretty far-reaching consequences.

In the jungle monkeys establish territorial ownership by throwing sticks and rocks at intruders. On the plains wolves, coyotes and dogs mark their territory by leaving the smell of urine. Bankrupts mark their territory by paper that the political system records for a fee (fee simple absolute ownership ... of the paper ... for a fee you see).

Jewboo

9th May 2016, 06:21 AM

Odd. I look out around my environment and I see no land owned by anyone.

https://d1ai9qtk9p41kl.cloudfront.net/assets/mc/kmw/2010_10/homeless.jpg

Of course you don't.

(:;) you are a Sovereign Citizen

palani

9th May 2016, 07:15 AM

Of course you don't.
Legal fictions have no reality. Neither do they reflect light so your eyes can see them. Therefore your MIND must be making these things up.

you are a Sovereign Citizen
Surely you are discussing your own status. My own status is NEITHER EAR HAS BEEN PIERCED.

Glass

9th May 2016, 07:21 AM

theres no such thing as a sovereign citizen. Nonsensical thing to say. like saying you're a black whiteman or a skinny fat bastard or a flat chested woman with a 48DD bust. or an honest politician, or lawyer or news presenter.

Hitch

9th May 2016, 08:02 AM

Odd. I look out around my environment and I see no land owned by anyone. You see if you are bankrupt you own nothing. Evidence of your bankruptcy is your refusal to extinguish your debts. That means you have abandoned the concept of 'ownership' in favor of the benefit of discharging your debts instead of extinguishing them.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" ends up having pretty far-reaching consequences.

In the jungle monkeys establish territorial ownership by throwing sticks and rocks at intruders. On the plains wolves, coyotes and dogs mark their territory by leaving the smell of urine. Bankrupts mark their territory by paper that the political system records for a fee (fee simple absolute ownership ... of the paper ... for a fee you see).

Palani, do you believe in squatter's rights? I ask that question from an ethical standpoint.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/squatters-rights-law-california-45887.html

Hitch

9th May 2016, 08:47 AM

Surely you are discussing your own status. My own status is NEITHER EAR HAS BEEN PIERCED.

Would you be able to explain your status to these guys, and why your status "allows" you to pitch a tent on their front lawn?

8219

:rolleyes:

Jewboo

9th May 2016, 05:13 PM

I've found most businesses don't care actually. If you stay for only one night, leave first thing in the morning and leave no trace, most places are pretty cool about it.

https://i.imgur.com/BvFbSln.jpg

palani

9th May 2016, 05:27 PM

Palani, do you believe in squatter's rights? I ask that question from an ethical standpoint.

You either believe that you are in a constant state of TRESPASS or you believe that POSSESSION IS THE POSITION OF THE FOOT (as it were).

Possession is 9 points of the law. Ownership is only 1 point.

Paper means little when your opponent possesses scissors.

Stone is what is placed above your permanent place of abode.

You figure it out from there. I have given you enough hints.

palani

9th May 2016, 05:31 PM

Would you be able to explain your status to these guys
Sure. Here goes.

Any owner of land owes three duties.

1) to trespassers ... ya can't kill 'em
2) to service people ... ya gotta inform them of defects in the property that can injure 'em
3) to invited guests ... ya gotta fix those defects

Now what duty is the EASIEST to meet? Who would ya rather deal with: trespassers, service people or invited guests?

palani

9th May 2016, 05:33 PM

https://i.imgur.com/BvFbSln.jpg

1) why is diesel $4.13? Is this Canada?

2) why do they only have ONE bathroom? Can't they afford TWO BATHROOMS?
[If this is Canada don't bother to answer .. it is self-OBVIOUS.. a TRUE Canadian only needs a hole in the ground... but you don't plant a hooker there unless you expect germination]

midnight rambler

9th May 2016, 05:37 PM

Would you be able to explain your status to these guys, and why your status "allows" you to pitch a tent on their front lawn?

8219

:rolleyes:

Funny that you would post a photo of a bunch of lamebrains (knuckleheads who make extremely poor choices in guns).

Glass

9th May 2016, 07:37 PM

Sure. Here goes.

Any owner of land owes three duties.

1) to trespassers ... ya can't kill 'em
2) to service people ... ya gotta inform them of defects in the property that can injure 'em
3) to invited guests ... ya gotta fix those defects

Now what duty is the EASIEST to meet? Who would ya rather deal with: trespassers, service people or invited guests?

Genuine question: Does tenancy involve any elements of agency on behalf of the land holder?

Slightly related (in my mnd): you've posted before about the time frame where one stops being a guest and starts being something else - perhaps it was domiciled. Not sure of the term. Do you recall that?

palani

9th May 2016, 07:58 PM

one stops being a guest and starts being something else - perhaps it was domiciled. Not sure of the term. Do you recall that?
First nite ... stranger
2nd nite ... guest
3rd nite (and onward) ... aghenhine

interpretation: member of the trust known as a HOUSEHOLD. Beneficiary and trustee.

palani

9th May 2016, 08:02 PM

Does tenancy involve any elements of agency on behalf of the land holder?
If you hold land by virtue of any knights service (attend your lord in time of warfare) I would suspect that some form of agency was involved in the holding of the land he pays your service with.

There is a board game called RISK that involves the same concepts .. except they portrait the landscape in terms of continents rather than the more local regions.

Hitch

9th May 2016, 10:53 PM

Any owner of land owes three duties.

1) to trespassers ... ya can't kill 'em
2) to service people ... ya gotta inform them of defects in the property that can injure 'em
3) to invited guests ... ya gotta fix those defects

Now what duty is the EASIEST to meet? Who would ya rather deal with: trespassers, service people or invited guests?

So, if your pitch a tent on someone's front lawn, they should actually thank you, for trespassing. Because it absolves them, from being evil land owners, of any liability.

See, this is the problem with our country. People feel free to go out and encroach on others, and claim entitlement to what they have. Do you not see this? Nobody, is going to feel comfortable with trespassers near their home. The trespassers don't care about others, period.

Hitch

9th May 2016, 10:55 PM

Funny that you would post a photo of a bunch of lamebrains (knuckleheads who make extremely poor choices in guns).

I chose that photo because I thought it was hilarious. I hope the humor was not lost on everyone...

But, really, there are people like that out there, and if you want to deal with them, you probably will have to if you follow Palani's advise on this forum.

palani

10th May 2016, 05:47 AM

So, if your pitch a tent on someone's front lawn, they should actually thank you, for trespassing. Because it absolves them, from being evil land owners, of any liability.
You figure it out. If you are there because you deliver milk, eggs or newspapers then they have a duty to tell you where you might be injured. If they have 40 acres and you ask if you can metal detect on it and they say 'yes you can' then you are an invited guest and if you fall into a covered up well and break an arm or a leg they are responsible for fixing you.

Now say you just wander into that 40 acre field and start metal detecting and fall into the same well. They pull you out with the same broken arm or leg but now you are responsible for your own bills.

Which mode puts the land owner on the spot more? I'll take a trespasser any day of the week and twice on Sunday over someone who asks for permission to be there and who isn't asking 'can I metal detect' but who is asking 'are you going to be responsible for me if I get injured'. Depends on how generous you are doesn't it?

See, this is the problem with our country. People feel free to go out and encroach on others, and claim entitlement to what they have. Do you not see this? Nobody, is going to feel comfortable with trespassers near their home. The trespassers don't care about others, period. Your view is clouded. All land ownership is through the political plane whereas I am extremely non-political. You see my physical location on what you view as land that you own as a trespass but where have I pulled out a political banner and attempted to change your political views? Unless I do there is no trespass. Say you own a field and intend to make a living growing corn or soybeans there. Should I take over a 50x50 foot patch and start raising corn, soybeans or vegetables on that land I am trespassing on your right to grow a commercial crop on the same land and this would be a trespass. My walking across this same land to get to a road on the other side is not a trespass if I damage no corn or soybeans in the process.

palani

10th May 2016, 06:00 AM

Ted Turner actually believes he owns half of Wyoming. The U.N. thru Agenda 21 believe they can enforce a policy that eliminates all people from large areas of the west. Joe Blow owns a 1/4 acre patch of land that he believes entitles him to eject anyone he chooses. The Vatican claims to own the entire Earth. Four examples. Same principle.

So you write to Ted and ask if you can canoe down one of his rivers. Get injured? Send the bill to Ted.

So you write to the U.N. and get permission from them to hike across the Salton Sea. Step into a prairie dog hole and break your leg. Send the bill to the U.N.

You ask Joe Blow if he would mind if you pitched your tent overnite. A candle starts a fire, you get burned and require hospitalization. Send the bill to Joe.

You ask the Vatican for permission to visit Jerusalem and some neo-Nazi skinhead Israeli soldier kicks you in the head 'cause he thinks you look Arab. Send the bill to the Vatican.

Carl

10th May 2016, 01:30 PM

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/parkingcar-thumb.jpg
http://youredm.youredm1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/massive-tent-3.jpg?9ca817

ShortJohnSilver

11th May 2016, 01:06 AM

I'd like to thank everyone who responded. GSUS is a funny bunch LOL.

So I went up to where I planned to go, despite it being 22F to 24F and snowing lightly, at this mountain pass.

I went up, got there about 930PM and realized that my 4G cell phone still had signal, surprisingly! This gave me a lot of confidence in that I do need some level of Internet access to stay in touch with my customers... maybe it won't be horrible or require an expensive satphone.

I chatted with a few friends until a bit after 10PM, while a light snow fell and the temperature remained 22-24F. I finally got up the gumption to get out of the driver's seat and move back to the area with leisure pad (3 inches thick) and camping pad (about 2 inches thick and supposed to be R8 insulation), plus the fluffy warm throw and the larger comforter I brought with me. Worried about having to get out of the vehicle at a moment's notice (I was pretty antsy) I just took off my belt and unbuttoned my pants but left them on.

I stayed pretty warm, aside from my nose. Since there was snow and ice formation, any window fogginess wouldn't have been noticed.

The parking lot was empty. Occasionally (I think a ranger) would come in about once an hour until 2AM, and sometimes someone else would turn in. Since there was no one else around, I kept my Leatherman which was my only knife, right beside me. Every now and then someone would drive in, stick around for a while, then leave. Being new to all this, I was very vigilant about listening for approaching footsteps etc. I would have felt a lot better if 1 or 2 other people had been parked in the same parking lot.

As it turned out, no one bothered me. The stars were beautiful! The light from the sunrise woke me shortly before 6AM and I got up, put on my shoes and drove into town.

Observations: I wouldn't like sleeping in an SUV over the long term, at least the one I have. I would have to make too many compromises and make special window curtains or blackout panels. Plus it greatly reduces the amount of stuff I can have in the car in terms of storage.

If you are going to do this, you have to optimize your layout and figure out how to reach what is important easily. I failed to do this (too much other stuff in SUV) and things were inconvenient.

I decided to build a "tear drop trailer" which uses an inexpensive 4x8 foot utility trailer as a base, and can be made simply and cheaply. Ideally I would find a beautiful diesel bread truck for cheap - but that seems like a pipe dream.

Tonight I signed up at a "maker space", announced myself as the new guy and what I wanted to build - happily they have everything I need in terms of tools and there were in fact several people interested in building these kinds of trailers. So I will have lots of high-tech assistance in designing and building it; once the plans are done once and a completed trailer is shown as working I might be able to make some cash from the plans or whatnot.

So the tear drop will be used for cooking (if camping) and sleeping. Bathroom and shower have to be provided in some other fashion (I have a gym membership that works nationwide, might be good).

A few points about this thread:

1. I am not a young guy, but middle aged and in good health. Divorced no kids and an all around great guy :)

2. I am not doing this for money, although I look forward to saving some cash.

I am doing this because I need to simplify further and travel more. And I spend too much time holed up at my desk surfing the Net - this way I will be forced to meet more people.

I have family all across the USA but they usually feel weird about putting me up for more than 1 night. This way I can visit, but sleep in my own place and they won't see it as an imposition.

Once I am successful at doing this in USA , I want to try it in Western Europe (where I also have family); and the trailer needs to be light enough to be towed by say, a VW Polo or Toyota Corolla.

If that works, then, Eastern Europe and chasing some babes to make babies with (evil grin).

Glass

11th May 2016, 01:23 AM

I still think it's worth considering putting a false floor in the back and some drawers underneath for storage. I camped in the back of a station wagon when I was younger and sweet on a girl a long way from home. Was fairly doable. I had a couple very thick sheep skin covers for the seats. Handy in cold weather for extra warm.

Jewboo

11th May 2016, 07:41 AM

LOL, yeah, definitely no hospitals. You explained it well earlier in this thread, anywhere in a big city is risking it. City parks, a definite no as well, because kids playing, etc. Not even remotely close to a school, ever. Be several blocks away at the very least.

Police: Van spotted in Mountain Home not connected to AMBER Alert (http://www.ktvb.com/news/crime/amber-alert-suspect-victim-reportedly-spotted-in-mountain-home/184557007)
:D

Tumbleweed

11th May 2016, 08:46 AM

The parking lot was empty. Occasionally (I think a ranger) would come in about once an hour until 2AM, and sometimes someone else would turn in. Since there was no one else around, I kept my Leatherman which was my only knife, right beside me. Every now and then someone would drive in, stick around for a while, then leave. Being new to all this, I was very vigilant about listening for approaching footsteps etc. I would have felt a lot better if 1 or 2 other people had been parked in the same parking lot.

In the part of the world I live in if a car is sitting somewhere off by itself or parked along a hi way that indians travel the windows may be broken out. My brother had an SUV that quit him along a hi-way and he didn't get back to tow it until the next day. The windows were broken out and it had been searched for valuables. His mistake was locking it on a well traveled road from a reservation to the city.

There was a report of a person in that city a few years ago of a guy sleeping in his car in a parking lot. Two indians smashed his windshield to get in. The occupant got out and stabbed one to death right there. He stabbed the other one too but he got away. The police followed his blood trail and found him before he bled to death. They got him to the hospital and he survived. I don't believe the guy who stabbed them was charged with anything.

You might want something bigger than a leatherman tool. I believe the guy in this story had a larger type hunting knife.

ShortJohnSilver

12th May 2016, 10:04 AM

In the part of the world I live in if a car is sitting somewhere off by itself or parked along a hi way that indians travel the windows may be broken out. My brother had an SUV that quit him along a hi-way and he didn't get back to tow it until the next day. The windows were broken out and it had been searched for valuables. His mistake was locking it on a well traveled road from a reservation to the city.

There was a report of a person in that city a few years ago of a guy sleeping in his car in a parking lot. Two indians smashed his windshield to get in. The occupant got out and stabbed one to death right there. He stabbed the other one too but he got away. The police followed his blood trail and found him before he bled to death. They got him to the hospital and he survived. I don't believe the guy who stabbed them was charged with anything.

You might want something bigger than a leatherman tool. I believe the guy in this story had a larger type hunting knife.

The laws regarding guns are more lenient than I thought they were, for National Forest areas. Basically the laws of the state you are in, apply, with only a few restrictions.

However, everyone always needs a way to chop brushwood and make kindling, right? So a machete or smatchet is perfectly understandable and legal at all times to be on your person. Also relatively silent.

As I drove around the next morning I must have seen 20 or more cars and vans parked at different places near this forested area. Thankfully none of them appeared to have been messed with. Perhaps it is more dangerous to park in a deserted area in a city, rather than in the country; since people in the country are more likely to have guns and knives with them and you can be more anonymous in a city.

ShortJohnSilver

14th May 2016, 09:20 PM

Dogman

14th May 2016, 09:57 PM

I have joined a local tool-sharing club, like a "maker space" and some other guys are interested in building them. I maybe have figured out how to a)possibly make a business out of it b) design it so that it can be as a regular tear drop, or also have the roof extended when parked, to give a lot more headroom. Good luck !

They are getting popular, but to keep small single axel low tongue weight! Is hard to escape the current design's. Water ,fresh and grey are limited in size, etc,etc. Unless the towing vehicle carry's the rest of the amenities and when parked the total package is revealed.

Manufactured ones I have looked at are a tad pricy, that have what I would call basic amenities for me! I could build one that I would be proud of in looks and function. But that would take discounting my time in it.

Look at what is available, then figure and do it, but beat the price of current models available! =sales!

Tho look at building high end ones with the bling, but at those prices get into larger trailer, to keep to traditional size you can only do so much, unless you do total custom, and then size comes into play and stay within the small teardrop design.

Sorta a catch 22 thingy!

Sent from my Nexus 7

Hitch

14th May 2016, 11:42 PM

I have family all across the USA but they usually feel weird about putting me up for more than 1 night. This way I can visit, but sleep in my own place and they won't see it as an imposition.

On this note, having visitors requires energy and attention from folks. That's what is great about RV traveling, small campers, that is. Everyone, wants to be a good host, but if you show up not needing a thing from them. You have your bed, you have food, you take care of yourself, it's just a relief on everyone. All you need is a spot to park, the rest is relaxation and fun visiting time with them.

Personally, I've found, it's a different experience. It's a good feeling.

Also, if you know the family you are staying with goes to bed at 10 pm. Go out to your camper at 8 pm, regardless of what they say. Relax, read a book. That way they have some alone time for themselves in the evening.