Texas Governor Calling For Convention Of The States To Rein In Washington

[Ares]

Its Happening – Texas Governor Calling For Convention Of The States To Rein In Washington

Texas Governor Greg Abbot is calling for a Constitutional Convention of the States to bring Washington politicians back in line with the rule of law, and the spirit of the Constitution.

If you are unfamiliar with what a Constitutional Convention is, it’s pretty simple. Article V of the Constitution makes it clear that Congress has the power to amend the Constitution by adding Amendments. Most people understand that it is Congress, and not the president, no matter how mighty his pen or phone may be, that writes the laws.

In addition, however, Article V also gives the same power to amend the Constitution to the states. The states can convene, propose an amendment, and as long as there is a 3/4 agreement from the states, that amendment shall be ratified.

The reason why this power of the states, although it has yet to be used, was added into the Constitution, was to prevent an out of control national government. Many of the Founding Fathers recognized the power that a centralized government could grant itself if left unchecked, and so provided an outlet for the states to d that power. Governor Abbot said,

“The increasingly frequent departures from Constitutional principles are destroying the Rule of Law foundation on which this country was built.”

He explained that the only cure to bring Washington back in line with the Constitutional, was to utilize the powers granted in Article V.

“We are succumbing to the caprice of man that our Founders fought to escape. The cure to these problems will not come from Washington D.C. Instead, the states must lead the way.
To do that I am adding another item to the agenda next session. I want legislation authorizing Texas to join other states in calling for a Convention of States to fix the cracks in our Constitution.”

According to a press release, Governor Abbott is proposing 9 additional amendments to the Constitution:

Prohibit Congress from regulating activity that occurs wholly within one State.
Require Congress to balance its budget.
Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from creating federal law.
Prohibit administrative agencies—and the unelected bureaucrats that staff them—from preempting state law.
Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a U.S. Supreme Court decision.
Require a seven-justice super-majority vote for U.S. Supreme Court decisions that invalidate a democratically enacted law.
Restore the balance of power between the federal and state governments by limiting the former to the powers expressly delegated to it in the Constitution.
Give state officials the power to sue in federal court when federal officials overstep their bounds.
Allow a two-thirds majority of the States to override a federal law or regulation.

http://www.uschronicle.com/happening-texas-governor-calling-convention-states-rein-washington/

[Joshua01]

If this gains any traction I'm sure the good governor will meet with a tragic accident before any real damage is done

[Twisted Titan]

This will get shitcanned and the only recourse left will be the cartridge box.

[midnight rambler]

This will get shitcanned and the only recourse left will be the cartridge box.

Don't be such a fucking pessimist you sound like you want a dark future

[Cebu_4_2]

From January 8th unless it's an update...

http://gov.texas.gov/news/press-release/21829/

[mick silver]

when states make a call to arm then wake my ass , nothing going to come from this . am with T T ON THIS , HISTORY SHOW US THAT

[madfranks]

Don't be such a fucking pessimist you sound like you want a dark futureHe's right though, there's no chance that an actual honest to goodness constitutional convention will occur. Most states love being agents of the Feds, not to mention all the free goodies uncle hands out.

[monty]

He's right though, there's no chance that an actual honest to goodness constitutional convention will occur. Most states love being agents of the Feds, not to mention all the free goodies uncle hands out.


That is exactly the reason the states all incorporated during the 1950's and the 1960's, federal funds!!!

[Ares]

That is exactly the reason the states all incorporated during the 1950's and the 1960's, federal funds!!!

Not exactly, that was just a benefit. The real reason they incorporated was to allow them the ability to float bonds (spend beyond their means). Which is not possible for unincorporated entities. Its also the same reason you do not see police (outside of a sheriff) in unincorporated areas. Corporations need a way to reinforce their revenue stream. That's where police come into play, they really are revenue enforcement agents.

[monty]

Not exactly, that was just a benefit. The real reason they incorporated was to allow them ability to float bonds (spend beyond their means). Which is not possible for unincorporated entities. Its also the same reason you do not see police (outside of a sheriff) in unincorporated areas. Corporations need a way to reinforce their revenue stream. That's where police come into play, they really are revenue enforcement agents.

Perhaps you are right, there is much I don't understand about this whole mess, but I believe the incorporated STATE OF NEVADA is nothing more than an extension of the municipal District of Colombia. I believe most, if not all, sheriffs are also incorporated as they accept fed funds, but they are free to excercise their constitutional duty if they have the cajones.

[monty]

Also, as I understand it, when anyone, or any government incorporates they lose their sovereign status.

[7th trump]

Also, as I understand it, when anyone, or any government incorporates they lose their sovereign status.

Yep....a hint is the California franchise tax board (state tax administration). you the individual that became franchised with the state when you become a US citizen by applying for federal Social Security benefits. All the states that have state taxes imposed are saying you are franchised with the state regardless of what they call themselves...California just happens to be up front about it.
There is no other federal document that does this to people....none. So don't believe the fool palani with his halfwit half brain dead conspiracy its because you have frn's in your pocket....its not true!

Only US citizens, legal aliens and government fictions are taxed on their labor and are the only ones mentioned in Title 26 (income taxes).

[Twisted Titan]

Don't be such a fucking pessimist you sound like you want a dark future

No Sir....

It's just there is a book I'm reading that contains about 5000 years of history it says a few things of great import.

That the heart of a man is a desperately wicked thing ......so wicked that none can know it.

Any endeavor you undertake where you exclude The Creator of the Universe is doomed to fail.



Not pessimistic. ...just speaking facts.

[Horn]

If one govenah is feeling penny pinched on plans it could spread to many others feeling likewise.

Well in this world it should.

[palani]

Gee ... the last time a convention of states came together they decided to call it a Civil War.

[steyr_m]

Don't be such a fucking pessimist you sound like you want a dark future

I dunno. The US Gov has overstepped it's mandate for so long and so much -- I think it's too late. Just like voting, this will have no teeth...

[slvrbugjim]

Gee ... the last time a convention of states came together they decided to call it a Civil War.

Yerp that is exactly what we are going into. gun confiscation in Texas would do exactly that civil war, as well as other southern States.

[slvrbugjim]

In fact civil war IS the health of the state going forward, it is only through disruption that they can create control.

[GaryRTN]

As it stands now with our Constitution we can continue to allow an increasingly activist US Supreme Court to allow 5 unelected men in black robes to tell 350 million Americans how we are allowed to lead our lives or we can take back our god-given freedoms originally secured for us by the founding fahers. It is much more prudent to allow the representatives of the 38 states that are required to ratify any proposed amendments (with purpose to fortify our current rights) than to allow 5 men in black robes to continue to incrementaly usurp our liberty. Any proposed amendments by state convention is any more risk than the power currently held by Congress, as any product from state conventions will require the same minimum threshold of agreement of 38 states to be passed.. Congress and the Federal Government will never vote to effectively limit or reverse their encroachment into our daily lives so our last hope of doing so is aggressive action by our state governments. Visit here to learn more, sign the petition, and volunteer: http://www.cosaction.com/?recruiter_id=1636326

[monty]

How legitimate is a convention of the states when all 50 are incorporated extensions of the incorporated District of Columbia? We certainly don't want the politicians in the Congess rewriting/amending the constitution. Whenever you incorporate you lose sovereignty.

[palani]

Whenever you incorporate you lose sovereignty.

Sorry. That is not a principle of law.

You lose sovereignty when you lose a war or enter a treaty that impairs your ability to act as you would otherwise.

A prime example of this is the U.S. constitution ... which left the several states with a clipped sovereignty in exchange for the benefit of federal oversight.

[7th trump]

Sorry. That is not a principle of law.

You lose sovereignty when you lose a war or enter a treaty that impairs your ability to act as you would otherwise.

A prime example of this is the U.S. constitution ... which left the several states with a clipped sovereignty in exchange for the benefit of federal oversight.

Pot calling the kettle black arentcha Palani?
Everything you pretty much say has......how did you say it?....."no principle of law". All yapping bullshit based on idiots and their ignorant opinion of the internets!!
The US hasnt lost a war where the victor set up shop in DC. Only in your made up world of that numb skull of yours where you'd rather believe a lie than the truth.

The several states (all 50) have complete sovereignty. The problem is there are no more "PEOPLE" within the jurisdiction of the union states. All the "People" have decided to opt for the federal benefits of a second class US citizen over their God given Rights.
Governors actually do have more power than the president...hence why they are called governors...not presidents of a corporate fiction. Unfortunately the 50 governors dont govern any People...they have limited power in their boundaries over federal US citizens.
You certainly are one dumb downed arm chair hick!

[Carl]

Some of you guys...well...

The states incorporated with the passage of their constitutions. The Federal government incorporated with the U.S. Constitution. Each state incorporated into the union under the constitution. The district of columbia, formerly a territory governed by congress, was incorporated as a municipality in order to form a self ruling government, thus relieving congress of that responsibility. Communities, towns and cities incorporate for the same reason, it affords them the ability for self government, applying their own rules and regulations in addition to the state's.

[monty]

Pot calling the kettle black arentcha Palani?
Everything you pretty much say has......how did you say it?....."no principle of law". All yapping bullshit!
The US hasnt lost a war where the victor set up shop in DC. Only in your made up world of that numb skull of yours where you'd rather believe a lie than the truth.

The several states (all 50) have complete sovereignty. The problem is there are no more "PEOPLE" within the jurisdiction of the union states. All the "People" have decided to opt for the federal benefits of a second class US citizen over their God given Rights.

Therefore, in order to have a Constitutional Article V convention of states, the states must send currently non existent state citizens as delegates, and not the current crop of second class US citizens. Under the current state of affairs that is impossible.

[monty]

Some of you guys...well...

The states incorporated with the passage of their constitutions. The Federal government incorporated with the U.S. Constitution. Each state incorporated into the union under the constitution. The district of columbia, formerly a territory governed by congress, was incorporated as a municipality in order to form a self ruling government, thus relieving congress of that responsibility. Communities, towns and cities incorporate for the same reason, it affords them the ability for self government, applying their own rules and regulations in addition to the state's.


After the municipal incorporation of Washington D. C. what or whom became the governing body? Is it still not the Congress?

edit: What were the status of the original states under the Articles of Confederation if they incorporated under the Constitution?

[7th trump]

Therefore, in order to have a Constitutional Article V convention of states, the states must send currently non existent state citizens as delegates, and not the current crop of second class US citizens. Under the current state of affairs that is impossible.
Yep, you hit the nail square on the head Monty........... its called conflict of interest in laymans terms for those who dont understand it.

Legally it cannot be done. And to amend the Constitution to strike out the any amendment or Article I believe it must be done by ratification of the states on the "People" level. Well they cant do it because it requires the People and the feds have stooped the People to becoming US citizens.
They cant have it both ways!!

However, the courts have ruled on several occasions that there is a dual citizenship...............the People/ US citizen.

[Neuro]

As it stands now with our Constitution we can continue to allow an increasingly activist US Supreme Court to allow 5 unelected men in black robes to tell 350 million Americans how we are allowed to lead our lives or we can take back our god-given freedoms originally secured for us by the founding fahers. It is much more prudent to allow the representatives of the 38 states that are required to ratify any proposed amendments (with purpose to fortify our current rights) than to allow 5 men in black robes to continue to incrementaly usurp our liberty. Any proposed amendments by state convention is any more risk than the power currently held by Congress, as any product from state conventions will require the same minimum threshold of agreement of 38 states to be passed.. Congress and the Federal Government will never vote to effectively limit or reverse their encroachment into our daily lives so our last hope of doing so is aggressive action by our state governments. Visit here to learn more, sign the petition, and volunteer: http://www.cosaction.com/?recruiter_id=1636326

Welcome to the Forum Gary!

[monty]

Yep, you hit the nail square on the head Monty........... its called conflict of interest in laymans terms for those who dont understand it.

Legally it cannot be done. And to amend the Constitution to strike out the any amendment or Article I believe it must be done by ratification of the states on the "People" level. Well they cant do it because it requires the People and the feds have stooped the People to becoming US citizens.
They cant have it both ways!!

I agree 100%. There are no People.

[Carl]

After the municipal incorporation of Washington D. C. what or whom became the governing body? Is it still not the Congress?

The Government of the District of Columbia operates under Article One of the United States Constitution and the District of Columbia Home Rule Act, which devolves certain powers of the United States Congress to the Mayor and thirteen-member Council. However, Congress retains the right to review and overturn laws created by the council and intervene in local affairs.

No different from the authority states legislators retain over municipalities formed under the state's jurisdiction.

[Bigjon]

I agree 100%. There are no People.


By Anna Von Reitz


Greetings to Everyone, Coast to Coast, Pole to Pole---


I am very tired after a long day, so I will make this short;


1. As of four o'clock this afternoon, June 27, 2016, Alaska Standard Time, we have
confirmed the necessary (and in many cases more than sufficient) number of
claimants who are "grandfathered in" as American State Nationals and heirs of the
Republic to prove up on our claim to secure the land jurisdiction of every one of fifty
nation-states. Thank you to all those who have answered this call for help and
special thanks to the "Mormon Miracle Workers" who worked so hard to confirm and
secure the public records and documents needed.


There are enough to claim State National status for all fifty States.

[Bigjon]

http://www.lighthouseliberty.club/index.php

Common Law

http://www.lighthouseliberty.club/images/commom-law.jpg
The common law essentially refers to man’s inherent God given rights which have pre-existed all forms of government. The most famous declaration of rights was finally acknowledged by King John of England when he signed the Magna Charta in 1215 (The Great Charter of Liberties).

Upon this foundation was built the American experiment in which a republican form of government prohibited the menace that a ‘democracy’ would pose to individual rights and that no person or his property could be estranged or subject to distraint without his consent, absent due process of law by a jury of his peers. If you are aware of current conditions in modern society, common law is nearly dead. It must be resuscitated for freedom to prevail. It is up to us!

http://www.lighthouseliberty.club/images/Membership_Info_button.png (http://www.lighthouseliberty.club/index.php/features/mastermind-group)

[monty]

This is information I wish I had access to 65 years ago.

[BigSky]

You can help. Join the Convention of States at www.conventionofstates.com and sign the petition. We are more than a million-strong, nation wide in all 50-states, and have passed the memorial in 8-states with filings in 31-more. Only 34-states needed to call a convention for proposing amendments. Impose fiscal restraints, limit the power and jurisdiction of the fed government, and term limits for congress and federal officers. The convention could propose amendments to repeal of the 16th (Income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators), and to provide a way for States to overturn the Supreme Court.

[Bigjon]

You can help. Join the Convention of States at www.conventionofstates.com (http://www.conventionofstates.com) and sign the petition. We are more than a million-strong, nation wide in all 50-states, and have passed the memorial in 8-states with filings in 31-more. Only 34-states needed to call a convention for proposing amendments. Impose fiscal restraints, limit the power and jurisdiction of the fed government, and term limits for congress and federal officers. The convention could propose amendments to repeal of the 16th (Income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators), and to provide a way for States to overturn the Supreme Court.

I'm afraid you don't understand how "our" government works.

The Federal Government and it's states are foreign to the Land jurisdiction.

[7th trump]

Maybe this helps?

The term “the United States,” as used therein, refers to the several States united:

“At the time of the formation of the constitution, the States were members of the confederacy united under the style of ‘the United States of America,’ and upon the express condition that ‘each State retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence.’ And the consideration that, under the confederation, ‘We, the people of the United States of America,’ indubitably signified the people of the several States of the Union, as free, independent and sovereign States, coupled with the fact that the constitution was a continuation of the same Union (“a more perfect Union”), and a mere revision or remodeling of the confederation, is absolutely conclusive that, by the term, ‘the United States’ is meant the several States united as independent and sovereign communities; and by the words, ‘We, the people of the United States,’ is meant the people of the several States as distinct and sovereign communities, and not the people of the whole United States collectively as a nation.” Stunt v. Steamboat Ohio: 4 Am. Law. Reg. 49, at 95 (1855), Dis. Ct., Hamilton County, Ohio; and (same wording) Piqua Bank v. Knoup, Treasurer: 6 Ohio 261, at 303 thru 304 (1856).

Read more: http://thestatecitizen.webnode.com/yes-there-are-two-citizens-in-the-nation-of-the-united-states-under-international-law/

http://thestatecitizen.webnode.com/yes-there-are-two-citizens-in-the-nation-of-the-united-states-under-international-law/

[JohnQPublic]

Perhaps you are right, there is much I don't understand about this whole mess, but I believe the incorporated STATE OF NEVADA is nothing more than an extension of the municipal District of Colombia....

It is because the feds own almost all the land- and Nevada agreed tom those terms when they became a state.

[monty]

It is because the feds own almost all the land- and Nevada agreed tom those terms when they became a state.
The enabling act for Nevada is unconstitutional. The 9th circuit admitted as much in a case Gardner v United States, but couldn't rule on that point because it was not presented in the District Court case before appeal.

[Plastic]

You can help. Join the Convention of States at www.conventionofstates.com (http://www.conventionofstates.com) and sign the petition. We are more than a million-strong, nation wide in all 50-states, and have passed the memorial in 8-states with filings in 31-more. Only 34-states needed to call a convention for proposing amendments. Impose fiscal restraints, limit the power and jurisdiction of the fed government, and term limits for congress and federal officers. The convention could propose amendments to repeal of the 16th (Income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators), and to provide a way for States to overturn the Supreme Court.

It would also allow them a chance to repeal the 1st and 2nd amendments, a Constitutional convention today would result in calamity what with nearly every goddamned politician whoring themselves to moneyed interests. The thing sounds really awesome in principle, reality however.........

[Neuro]

You can help. Join the Convention of States at www.conventionofstates.com and sign the petition. We are more than a million-strong, nation wide in all 50-states, and have passed the memorial in 8-states with filings in 31-more. Only 34-states needed to call a convention for proposing amendments. Impose fiscal restraints, limit the power and jurisdiction of the fed government, and term limits for congress and federal officers. The convention could propose amendments to repeal of the 16th (Income tax) and 17th (direct election of Senators), and to provide a way for States to overturn the Supreme Court.

Maybe a Trump presidency will be good for the independence of states movement? I could see most governors being opposed to a strong central United States government under Trump leadership... :)

[woodman]

It would also allow them a chance to repeal the 1st and 2nd amendments, a Constitutional convention today would result in calamity what with nearly every goddamned politician whoring themselves to moneyed interests. The thing sounds really awesome in principle, reality however.........

A double edged sword for sure.

[palani]

It is because the feds own almost all the land

Here is how King George III designated the United States in his treaty that ended the revolutionary war


Article 2:

And that all disputes which might arise in future on the subject of the boundaries of the said United States may be prevented, it is hereby agreed and declared, that the following are and shall be their boundaries, viz.; from the northwest angle of Nova Scotia, viz., that angle which is formed by a line drawn due north from the source of St. Croix River to the highlands; along the said highlands which divide those rivers that empty themselves into the river St. Lawrence, from those which fall into the Atlantic Ocean, to the northwesternmost head of Connecticut River; thence down along the middle of that river to the forty-fifth degree of north latitude; from thence by a line due west on said latitude until it strikes the river Iroquois or Cataraquy; thence along the middle of said river into Lake Ontario; through the middle of said lake until it strikes the communication by water between that lake and Lake Erie; thence along the middle of said communication into Lake Erie, through the middle of said lake until it arrives at the water communication between that lake and Lake Huron; thence along the middle of said water communication into Lake Huron, thence through the middle of said lake to the water communication between that lake and Lake Superior; thence through Lake Superior northward of the Isles Royal and Phelipeaux to the Long Lake; thence through the middle of said Long Lake and the water communication between it and the Lake of the Woods, to the said Lake of the Woods; thence through the said lake to the most northwesternmost point thereof, and from thence on a due west course to the river Mississippi; thence by a line to be drawn along the middle of the said river Mississippi until it shall intersect the northernmost part of the thirty-first degree of north latitude, South, by a line to be drawn due east from the determination of the line last mentioned in the latitude of thirty-one degrees of the equator, to the middle of the river Apalachicola or Catahouche; thence along the middle thereof to its junction with the Flint River, thence straight to the head of Saint Mary's River; and thence down along the middle of Saint Mary's River to the Atlantic Ocean; east, by a line to be drawn along the middle of the river Saint Croix, from its mouth in the Bay of Fundy to its source, and from its source directly north to the aforesaid highlands which divide the rivers that fall into the Atlantic Ocean from those which fall into the river Saint Lawrence; comprehending all islands within twenty leagues of any part of the shores of the United States, and lying between lines to be drawn due east from the points where the aforesaid boundaries between Nova Scotia on the one part and East Florida on the other shall, respectively, touch the Bay of Fundy and the Atlantic Ocean, excepting such islands as now are or heretofore have been within the limits of the said province of Nova Scotia.

The U.S. never has consisted of land. There are several references to 'highlands which divide the rivers' but by and large the U.S. consists of watersheds. There is no state ever that has a single watershed within the state. Nevada is no different.

A federation isn't composed of land. It is composed of independent states.

[Horn]

Maybe a Trump presidency will be good for the independence of states movement? I could see most governors being opposed to a strong central United States government under Trump leadership... :)

Lets face it, the U.S. like Ukraine is too large with no clear divisions. The wall must be built endwise to run down along the Mississippi

then once reaching New Orleans cut across Mexico and extend to Tokyo... ._.

[Bigjon]

It is because the feds own almost all the land- and Nevada agreed tom those terms when they became a state.

They don't have the authority to "agree" with anything that is repugnant to the Constitution.

What is claimed is a nullity. The Federal Government can only hold land in trust or for needful buildings.

[7th trump]

Here is how King George III designated the United States in his treaty that ended the revolutionary war



The U.S. never has consisted of land. There are several references to 'highlands which divide the rivers' but by and large the U.S. consists of watersheds. There is no state ever that has a single watershed within the state. Nevada is no different.

A federation isn't composed of land. It is composed of independent states.

Depends on which definition to "United States" you are using and for what legal purpose or reason. The courts recognize three definitions and they apply differently for reasons of "application of subject matter".
If you had any experience in legitimate research in the subject matter you would have come across this numerous times instead of using a DEFEATED foreign kings gibberish.
Water sheds originate from territories which then become "UNION" states and the idea of water sheds is moot and obsolete....worthless!
Why you keep bringing up water sheds as if they have any legal standing is beyond me.

[Bigjon]

Depends on which definition to "United States" you are using and for what legal purpose or reason. The courts recognize three definitions and they apply differently for reasons of "application of subject matter".
If you had any experience in legitimate research in the subject matter you would have come across this numerous times instead of using a DEFEATED foreign kings gibberish.
Water sheds originate from territories which then become "UNION" states and the idea of water sheds is moot and obsolete....worthless!
Why you keep bringing up water sheds as if they have any legal standing is beyond me.

Palani likes to be different and he succeeds.

[Bigjon]

Some of you guys...well...

The states incorporated with the passage of their constitutions. The Federal government incorporated with the U.S. Constitution. Each state incorporated into the union under the constitution. The district of columbia, formerly a territory governed by congress, was incorporated as a municipality in order to form a self ruling government, thus relieving congress of that responsibility. Communities, towns and cities incorporate for the same reason, it affords them the ability for self government, applying their own rules and regulations in addition to the state's.

If you want incorporation to be a verb, you might have something.

As a noun, that is the current form "our" gov takes.



The United States Isn't a Country
— It's a Corporation!


by Lisa Guliani




http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm


"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
— Preamble of the original "organic" Constitution

"We hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights,

governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

— Excerpted from the Declaration of Independence of the original thirteen united states of America, July 4, 1776


Fourth of July 2002 has come and gone, and Americans honored the holiday with a renewed patriotic fervor that reminded me of the Bicentennial celebrations of 1976. As is customary, traditional fireworks displays took center stage and scores of people turned out to witness the dazzling show in the summer sky. With mixed feelings, I sat with friends on a crowded Pennsylvania sidewalk beneath a glittering, mesmerizing explosion of color, pondering the keen sense of sadness and betrayal that overwhelmed my spirit.

Looking around at the huge crowds gathered for the annual events, I thought silently, "We are not free." In truth, we have not been a free people for a very long time.

We celebrate this day in honor of our "independence". We call ourselves a free people in a land of liberty. Our anthems proudly sing the praises of this nation, and we raise our voices, wave our flags and join in song — but how many Americans realize they are not free? This is a myth perpetuated by the powers-that-be in order to avoid any major civil unrest, and to keep us all living under the thumb of a militaristic corporate Big Brother within the illusions that have been created for us. The truth of the matter is this: what freedom has not been stolen from us, we have surrendered willingly through our silence and ignorance. As Americans, most of us have no idea how our freedoms are maintained — or lost. Apparently, our ancestors didn't have a good grasp of this either. It is sad, but it is also very true.

Don't point to that beloved parchment, the Constitution, as a symbol of your enduring freedom. It is representative of a form of government which seemingly no longer exists in this country today. The Constitution has been thrown out the window, the Republic shoved aside and replaced with a democracy. The thing is; most people in this country remain unaware that this is so because they simply do not know the truth — what lies beyond the myths. Your so-called government is not going to tell you, either.

To even begin to understand what has happened to the Republic, we must look backward in time to the period following the Civil War.

We must go back to the year 1871, which was the beginning of the decline of the Republic. When we examine what happened during that time in our history, we begin to piece together this troubling, perplexing puzzle that is "America" — only then should we answer as to whether we are indeed a "free" people or not.
So, let's roll backward into the past for a moment. It is time we learned what they didn't teach us in school. It is far more interesting than what they DID tell us. I think you'll stay awake for this lesson.

The date is February 21, 1871 and the Forty-First Congress is in session. I refer you to the "Acts of the Forty-First Congress," Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62.

On this date in the history of our nation, Congress passed an Act titled: "An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia." This is also known as the "Act of 1871." What does this mean? Well, it means that Congress, under no constitutional authority to do so, created a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, which is a ten mile square parcel of land.

What??? How could they do that? Moreover, WHY would they do that? To explain, let's look at the circumstances of those days. The Act of 1871 was passed at a vulnerable time in America. Our nation was essentially bankrupt — weakened and financially depleted in the aftermath of the Civil War. The Civil War itself was nothing more than a calculated "front" for some pretty fancy footwork by corporate backroom players.

It was a strategic maneuver by European interests (the international bankers) who were intent upon gaining a stranglehold on the neck (and the coffers) of America.
The Congress realized our country was in dire financial straits, so they cut a deal with the international bankers — (in those days, the Rothschilds of London were dipping their fingers into everyone's pie) thereby incurring a DEBT to said bankers. If we think about banks, we know they do not just lend us money out of the goodness of their hearts. A bank will not do anything for you unless it is entirely in their best interest to do so. There has to be some sort of collateral or some string attached which puts you and me (the borrower) into a subservient position.

This was true back in 1871 as well. The conniving international bankers were not about to lend our floundering nation any money without some serious stipulations. So, they devised a brilliant way of getting their foot in the door of the United States (a prize they had coveted for some time, but had been unable to grasp thanks to our Founding Fathers, who despised them and held them in check), and thus, the Act of 1871 was passed.

In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Note the capitalization, because it is important. This corporation, owned by foreign interests, moved right in and shoved the original "organic" version of the Constitution into a dusty corner. With the "Act of 1871," our Constitution was defaced in the sense that the title was block-capitalized and the word "for" was changed to the word "of" in the title. The original Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers, was written in this manner:

"The Constitution for the united states of America".

The altered version reads: "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA".

It is the corporate constitution. It is NOT the same document you might think it is. The corporate constitution operates in an economic capacity and has been used to fool the People into thinking it is the same parchment that governs the Republic. It absolutely is not.

Capitalization — an insignificant change?

Not when one is referring to the context of a legal document, it isn't.

Such minor alterations have had major impacts on each subsequent generation born in this country. What the Congress did with the passage of the Act of 1871 was create an entirely new document, a constitution for the government of the District of Columbia. The kind of government THEY created was a corporation.

The new, altered Constitution serves as the constitution of the corporation, and not that of America. Think about that for a moment.

Incidentally, this corporate constitution does not benefit the Republic. It serves only to benefit the corporation. It does nothing good for you or me — and it operates outside of the original Constitution. Instead of absolute rights guaranteed under the "organic" Constitution, we now have "relative" rights or privileges. One example of this is the Sovereign's right to travel, which has been transformed under corporate government policy into a "privilege" which we must be licensed to engage in.

This operates outside of the original Constitution.

So, Congress committed TREASON against the People, who were considered Sovereign under the Declaration of Independence and the organic Constitution.

When we consider the word "Sovereign," we must think about what the word means.

According to Webster's Dictionary,

"sovereign" is defined as:
1. chief or highest; supreme.
2. Supreme in power, superior in position to all others.
3. Independent of, and unlimited by, any other, possessing or entitled to, original and independent authority or jurisdiction.

In other words, our government was created by and for "sovereigns" — the free citizens who were deemed the highest authority. Only the People can be sovereign — remember that. Government cannot be sovereign. We can also look to the Declaration of Independence, where we read: "government is subject to the consent of the governed" — that's supposed to be us, the sovereigns.

Do you feel like a sovereign nowadays? I don't.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a constitutional historian to figure out that this is not what is happening in our country today. Government in these times is NOT subject to the consent of the governed. Rather, the governed are subject to the whim and greed of the corporation, which has stretched its tentacles beyond the ten-mile-square parcel of land known as the District of Columbia — encroaching into every state of the Republic.

Mind you, the corporation has NO jurisdiction outside of the District of Columbia. THEY just want you to think it does.

You see, you are presumed to know the law. This is ironic because as a people, we are taught basically nothing about the law in school. We are made to memorize obscure factoids and paragraphs here and there, such as the Preamble, and they gloss over the Bill of Rights. But we are not told about the law.

Nor do our corporate government schools delve into the Constitution in any great depth. After all, they were put into place to indoctrinate and dumb down the masses — not to teach us anything. We were not told that we were sold-out to foreign interests and made beneficiaries of the debt incurred by Congress to the international bankers. For generations, American citizens have had the bulk of their earnings confiscated to pay on a massive debt that they, as a People, did not incur. There are many, many things the People have not been told. How do you feel about being made a beneficiary of somebody else's massive debt without your knowledge or consent? Are we gonna keep going along with this??

When you hear some individuals say that the Constitution is null and void, think about how our government has transformed over time from a municipal or service-oriented entity to a corporate or profit-oriented entity. We are living under the myth that this is lawful, but it is not.

We are being ruled by a "de facto," or unlawful, form of government — the corporate body of the death-mongers — The Controllers.

With the passage of the Act of 1871, a series of subtle and overt deceptions were set in motion — all in conjunction and collusion with the Congress, who knowingly and deliberately sold the People down the river.

Did they tell you this in government school? I doubt it. They were too busy drumming the fictional version of history into your brain — and mine. By failing to disclose what THEY did to the American People, the people became ignorant of what was happening.

Over time, the Republic took it on the chin to the point of a knockdown. With the surrender of their gold in 1933, the People essentially surrendered their law. I don't suppose you were taught THAT in school either. That's because our REAL history is hidden from us. This is the way Roman Civil Law works — and our form of governance today is based upon Roman Civil Law and Admiralty/Maritime Law — better known as the "Divine Right of Kings" and "Law of the Seas", respectively. This explains a lot. Roman Civil Law was fully established in the original colonies even before our nation began and is also known as private international law.

The government which was created for the District of Columbia via the Act of 1871 operates under Private International Law, and not Common Law, which was the law of the Constitutional Republic.

This is very important to note since it impacts all Americans in concrete ways. You must recognize that private international law is only applicable within the District of Columbia and NOT in the other states of the Union. The various arms of the corporation are known as "departments" such as the Judiciary, Justice and Treasury. You recognize those names? Yes, you do! But they are not what you assume them to be.

These "departments" all belong to the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES.

They do NOT belong to you and me under the corporate constitution and its various amendments that operate outside of the Constitutional Republic.

I refer you to the UNITED STATES CODE (note the capitalization, indicating the corporation, not the Republic) Title 28 3002 (15) (A) (B) (C).
It is stated unequivocally that the UNITED STATES is a corporation [see note (http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm#definitions)]. Realize, too, that the corporation is not a separate and distinct entity from the government. It IS the government. YOUR government. This is extremely important. I refer to this as the "corporate empire of the UNITED STATES," which operates under Roman Civil Law outside of the Constitution. How do you like being ruled by a cheesy, sleazy corporation? You'll ask your Congressperson about this, you say? HA!!

Congress is fully aware of this deception. You must be made aware that the members of Congress do NOT work for you and me. Rather, they work for the Corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Is this really any surprise to you? This is why we can't get them to do anything on our behalf or to answer to us

— as in the case with the illegal income tax —

among many other things. Contrary to popular belief, they are NOT our civil servants. They do NOT work for us. They are the servants of the corporate government and carry out its bidding. Period.

The great number of committees and sub-committees that the Congress has created all work together like a multi-headed monster to oversee the various corporate "departments." And, you should know that every single one of these that operates outside the District of Columbia is in violation of the law.

The corporate government of the
UNITED STATES has no jurisdiction or authority in ANY state of the Republic beyond the District of Columbia. Let this sink into your brain for a minute. Ask yourself, "Could this deception REALLY have occurred without the full knowledge and complicity of the Congress?" Do you think it happened by accident? You are deceiving yourself if you do. There are no accidents or coincidences. It is time to confront the truth and awaken from ignorance.

Your legislators will not apprise you of this information. You are presumed to know the law. THEY know you don't know the law, or your history for that matter, because this information has not been taught to you. No concerted effort has been made to inform you.

As a Sovereign, you are entitled to full disclosure of the facts. As a slave, you are entitled to nothing other than what the corporation decides to "give" you — at a price. Be wary of accepting so-called "benefits" of the corporation of the UNITED STATES. Aren't you enslaved enough already?

I said (above) that you are presumed to know the law. Still, it matters not if you don't in the eyes of the corporation. Ignorance of the law is not considered an excuse. It is your responsibility and your obligation as an American to learn about the law and how it applies to you. THEY count on the fact that most people are too uninterested or distracted or lazy to do so.
The People have been mentally conditioned to allow the alleged government to do their thinking for them. We need to turn that around if we are to save our Republic before it is too late.

The UNITED STATES government is basically a corporate instrument of the international bankers. This means YOU are owned by the corporation from birth to death.

The corporate UNITED STATES also holds ownership of all your assets, your property, and even your children. Does this sound untrue? Think long and hard about all those bills you pay, all those various taxes and fines and licenses you must pay for. Yes, they've got you by the pockets. Actually, they've had you by the ass for as long as you've been alive. In your heart, you know it's true. Don't believe any of this? Read up on the 14th Amendment.

Check out how "free" you really are.

With the Act of 1871 and subsequent legislation such as the purportedly ratified 14th Amendment, our once-great nation of Sovereigns has been subverted from a Republic to a democracy. As is the case under Roman Civil Law, our ignorance of the facts has led to our silence. Our silence has been construed as our consent to become beneficiaries of a debt we did not incur.

The Sovereign People have been deceived for hundreds of years into thinking they remain free and independent, when in actuality we continue to be slaves and servants of the corporation.

Treason was committed against the People in 1871 by the Congress. This could have been corrected through the decades by some honest men (assuming there were some), but it was not, mainly due to lust for money and power. Nothing new there. Are we to forgive and justify this crime against the People? You have lost more freedom than you may realize due to corporate infiltration of the so-called government. We will lose more unless we turn away from a democracy that is the direct road to disaster — and restore our Constitutional Republic.

In an upcoming article, we'll take a closer look at the purportedly ratified 14th Amendment and how we became "property" of the corporation and enslaved by our silence.

I am saddened to think about the brave men and women who were killed in all the wars and conflicts instigated by the Controllers.

These courageous souls fought for the preservation of ideals they believed to be true — not for the likes of a corporation. Do you believe that any one of the individuals who have been killed as a result of war would have willingly fought if they knew the full truth?

Do you think one person would have laid down his life for a corporation? I think not. If the People had known long ago to what extent their trust had been betrayed, I wonder how long it would have taken for another Revolution. What we need is a Revolution in THOUGHT. We change our thinking and we change our world.






Will we ever restore the Republic? That is a question I cannot answer yet. I hope, and most of all — pray — that WE, the Sovereign People, will work together in a spirit of cooperation to make it happen in this lifetime. I know I will give it my best shot — come what may. Our children deserve their rightful legacy — the liberty our ancestors fought so hard to give to us.
Will we remain silent telling ourselves we are free, and perpetuate the MYTH?
Or, do we stand as One Sovereign People, and take back what has been stolen from the house of our Republic?Something to think about — it's called freedom.


If we are stupid enough to surrender our freedom to a bunch of lousy international bankers, then we deserve to live in bondage. — Lisa Guliani


My heartfelt thanks goes out to the following people for their gracious and generous assistance in researching this subject: Ken S. of American Revolution II Online News, Paul Walker of RMN News, Bob Taft, Stanooch, and Willy Whitten — true Patriots, one and all.

Editor's note: Actually in the U.S. Code the term "United States" is said to have any of three meanings:

US CODE: Title 28,3002. Definitions (http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html) (archived here (http://web.archive.org/web/20060708190425/http://assembler.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html))
(15) "United States" means —
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.
Note that (B) and (C) refer to (A), so basically, in the American legal code the "United States" is a federal corporation, not a country.

Further reading:


Trump This! — The Ineffable Elsewho (http://eventhorizonchronicle.blogspot.com/2015/10/trump-this-ineffable-elsewho.html)
The United States is "a Federal corporation". It's a business, a red-white-and-blue mafia operating under the color of legal weasel words, and it is shaking you down for money, by armed force. It regards you as its numbered and catalogued property. It really is that simple. ...There is not a "country" called the "United States of America." It is a CORPORATION and it considers you to be its property. Why would you want to save that hideous monstrosity and be a part of it? What is "great" or good about it? ...
I don't know, and neither do you, whether we are perhaps dealing with a malevolent, artificially intelligent machine monstrosity or an actual demonic entity known as the "United States", that is intricately protected by a fiendishly wicked government and body of so-called law that is not at all what it appears to be, because when you start to dig and examine what the "United States" really is, you run into blind alleys, nonsensical information, misdirection, reams and reams of legal weasel words and documents that mean something completely other than what they appear to mean, and one false façade after another that completely contradicts what we were all taught to believe is real and true.


Thomas J. DiLorenzo: Truth About the 14th Amendment (http://web.archive.org/web/20070422181056/http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=282)
Kirwan: FEMA — The Plan to Kill America (http://web.archive.org/web/20051119155416/http://www.americaheldhostile.com/ed050603-1.shtml)
Control of Government (http://www.teamlaw.org/control.htm)
Ed Lewis: Who's the boss in America? (http://web.archive.org/web/20051109081748/http://www.libertyforall.net/2003/archive/feb2/boss.html)
TREASON — A NOTICE TO PUBLIC SERVANTS (http://web.archive.org/web/20090922235928/http://www.joycerosenwald.com/Treason.htm)

[Ares]

Fixed formatting :)


The United States Isn't a Country
— It's a Corporation!
by Lisa Guliani



"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
— Preamble of the original "organic" Constitution

"We hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
— Excerpted from the Declaration of Independence of the original thirteen united states of America, July 4, 1776

Fourth of July 2002 has come and gone, and Americans honored the holiday with a renewed patriotic fervor that reminded me of the Bicentennial celebrations of 1976. As is customary, traditional fireworks displays took center stage and scores of people turned out to witness the dazzling show in the summer sky. With mixed feelings, I sat with friends on a crowded Pennsylvania sidewalk beneath a glittering, mesmerizing explosion of color, pondering the keen sense of sadness and betrayal that overwhelmed my spirit. Looking around at the huge crowds gathered for the annual events, I thought silently, "We are not free." In truth, we have not been a free people for a very long time.

We celebrate this day in honor of our "independence". We call ourselves a free people in a land of liberty. Our anthems proudly sing the praises of this nation, and we raise our voices, wave our flags and join in song — but how many Americans realize they are not free? This is a myth perpetuated by the powers-that-be in order to avoid any major civil unrest, and to keep us all living under the thumb of a militaristic corporate Big Brother within the illusions that have been created for us. The truth of the matter is this: what freedom has not been stolen from us, we have surrendered willingly through our silence and ignorance. As Americans, most of us have no idea how our freedoms are maintained — or lost. Apparently, our ancestors didn't have a good grasp of this either. It is sad, but it is also very true.

Don't point to that beloved parchment, the Constitution, as a symbol of your enduring freedom. It is representative of a form of government which seemingly no longer exists in this country today. The Constitution has been thrown out the window, the Republic shoved aside and replaced with a democracy. The thing is; most people in this country remain unaware that this is so because they simply do not know the truth — what lies beyond the myths. Your so-called government is not going to tell you, either.

To even begin to understand what has happened to the Republic, we must look backward in time to the period following the Civil War. We must go back to the year 1871, which was the beginning of the decline of the Republic. When we examine what happened during that time in our history, we begin to piece together this troubling, perplexing puzzle that is "America" — only then should we answer as to whether we are indeed a "free" people or not.

So, let's roll backward into the past for a moment. It is time we learned what they didn't teach us in school. It is far more interesting than what they DID tell us. I think you'll stay awake for this lesson.

The date is February 21, 1871 and the Forty-First Congress is in session. I refer you to the "Acts of the Forty-First Congress," Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62. On this date in the history of our nation, Congress passed an Act titled: "An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia." This is also known as the "Act of 1871." What does this mean? Well, it means that Congress, under no constitutional authority to do so, created a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, which is a ten mile square parcel of land.

What??? How could they do that? Moreover, WHY would they do that? To explain, let's look at the circumstances of those days. The Act of 1871 was passed at a vulnerable time in America. Our nation was essentially bankrupt — weakened and financially depleted in the aftermath of the Civil War. The Civil War itself was nothing more than a calculated "front" for some pretty fancy footwork by corporate backroom players. It was a strategic maneuver by European interests (the international bankers) who were intent upon gaining a stranglehold on the neck (and the coffers) of America.

The Congress realized our country was in dire financial straits, so they cut a deal with the international bankers — (in those days, the Rothschilds of London were dipping their fingers into everyone's pie) thereby incurring a DEBT to said bankers. If we think about banks, we know they do not just lend us money out of the goodness of their hearts. A bank will not do anything for you unless it is entirely in their best interest to do so. There has to be some sort of collateral or some string attached which puts you and me (the borrower) into a subservient position. This was true back in 1871 as well. The conniving international bankers were not about to lend our floundering nation any money without some serious stipulations. So, they devised a brilliant way of getting their foot in the door of the United States (a prize they had coveted for some time, but had been unable to grasp thanks to our Founding Fathers, who despised them and held them in check), and thus, the Act of 1871 was passed.

In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Note the capitalization, because it is important. This corporation, owned by foreign interests, moved right in and shoved the original "organic" version of the Constitution into a dusty corner. With the "Act of 1871," our Constitution was defaced in the sense that the title was block-capitalized and the word "for" was changed to the word "of" in the title. The original Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers, was written in this manner:

"The Constitution for the united states of America".

The altered version reads: "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It is the corporate constitution. It is NOT the same document you might think it is. The corporate constitution operates in an economic capacity and has been used to fool the People into thinking it is the same parchment that governs the Republic. It absolutely is not.

Capitalization — an insignificant change? Not when one is referring to the context of a legal document, it isn't. Such minor alterations have had major impacts on each subsequent generation born in this country. What the Congress did with the passage of the Act of 1871 was create an entirely new document, a constitution for the government of the District of Columbia. The kind of government THEY created was a corporation. The new, altered Constitution serves as the constitution of the corporation, and not that of America. Think about that for a moment.

Incidentally, this corporate constitution does not benefit the Republic. It serves only to benefit the corporation. It does nothing good for you or me — and it operates outside of the original Constitution. Instead of absolute rights guaranteed under the "organic" Constitution, we now have "relative" rights or privileges. One example of this is the Sovereign's right to travel, which has been transformed under corporate government policy into a "privilege" which we must be licensed to engage in. This operates outside of the original Constitution.

So, Congress committed TREASON against the People, who were considered Sovereign under the Declaration of Independence and the organic Constitution. When we consider the word "Sovereign," we must think about what the word means.

According to Webster's Dictionary, "sovereign" is defined as: 1. chief or highest; supreme. 2. Supreme in power, superior in position to all others. 3. Independent of, and unlimited by, any other, possessing or entitled to, original and independent authority or jurisdiction.

In other words, our government was created by and for "sovereigns" — the free citizens who were deemed the highest authority. Only the People can be sovereign — remember that. Government cannot be sovereign. We can also look to the Declaration of Independence, where we read: "government is subject to the consent of the governed" — that's supposed to be us, the sovereigns. Do you feel like a sovereign nowadays? I don't.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a constitutional historian to figure out that this is not what is happening in our country today. Government in these times is NOT subject to the consent of the governed. Rather, the governed are subject to the whim and greed of the corporation, which has stretched its tentacles beyond the ten-mile-square parcel of land known as the District of Columbia — encroaching into every state of the Republic. Mind you, the corporation has NO jurisdiction outside of the District of Columbia. THEY just want you to think it does.

You see, you are presumed to know the law. This is ironic because as a people, we are taught basically nothing about the law in school. We are made to memorize obscure factoids and paragraphs here and there, such as the Preamble, and they gloss over the Bill of Rights. But we are not told about the law. Nor do our corporate government schools delve into the Constitution in any great depth. After all, they were put into place to indoctrinate and dumb down the masses — not to teach us anything. We were not told that we were sold-out to foreign interests and made beneficiaries of the debt incurred by Congress to the international bankers. For generations, American citizens have had the bulk of their earnings confiscated to pay on a massive debt that they, as a People, did not incur. There are many, many things the People have not been told. How do you feel about being made a beneficiary of somebody else's massive debt without your knowledge or consent? Are we gonna keep going along with this??

When you hear some individuals say that the Constitution is null and void, think about how our government has transformed over time from a municipal or service-oriented entity to a corporate or profit-oriented entity. We are living under the myth that this is lawful, but it is not. We are being ruled by a "de facto," or unlawful, form of government — the corporate body of the death-mongers — The Controllers.

With the passage of the Act of 1871, a series of subtle and overt deceptions were set in motion — all in conjunction and collusion with the Congress, who knowingly and deliberately sold the People down the river. Did they tell you this in government school? I doubt it. They were too busy drumming the fictional version of history into your brain — and mine. By failing to disclose what THEY did to the American People, the people became ignorant of what was happening. Over time, the Republic took it on the chin to the point of a knockdown. With the surrender of their gold in 1933, the People essentially surrendered their law. I don't suppose you were taught THAT in school either. That's because our REAL history is hidden from us. This is the way Roman Civil Law works — and our form of governance today is based upon Roman Civil Law and Admiralty/Maritime Law — better known as the "Divine Right of Kings" and "Law of the Seas", respectively. This explains a lot. Roman Civil Law was fully established in the original colonies even before our nation began and is also known as private international law.

The government which was created for the District of Columbia via the Act of 1871 operates under Private International Law, and not Common Law, which was the law of the Constitutional Republic. This is very important to note since it impacts all Americans in concrete ways. You must recognize that private international law is only applicable within the District of Columbia and NOT in the other states of the Union. The various arms of the corporation are known as "departments" such as the Judiciary, Justice and Treasury. You recognize those names? Yes, you do! But they are not what you assume them to be. These "departments" all belong to the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. They do NOT belong to you and me under the corporate constitution and its various amendments that operate outside of the Constitutional Republic.

I refer you to the UNITED STATES CODE (note the capitalization, indicating the corporation, not the Republic) Title 28 3002 (15) (A) (B) (C). It is stated unequivocally that the UNITED STATES is a corporation [see note]. Realize, too, that the corporation is not a separate and distinct entity from the government. It IS the government. YOUR government. This is extremely important. I refer to this as the "corporate empire of the UNITED STATES," which operates under Roman Civil Law outside of the Constitution. How do you like being ruled by a cheesy, sleazy corporation? You'll ask your Congressperson about this, you say? HA!!

Congress is fully aware of this deception. You must be made aware that the members of Congress do NOT work for you and me. Rather, they work for the Corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Is this really any surprise to you? This is why we can't get them to do anything on our behalf or to answer to us — as in the case with the illegal income tax — among many other things. Contrary to popular belief, they are NOT our civil servants. They do NOT work for us. They are the servants of the corporate government and carry out its bidding. Period.

The great number of committees and sub-committees that the Congress has created all work together like a multi-headed monster to oversee the various corporate "departments." And, you should know that every single one of these that operates outside the District of Columbia is in violation of the law. The corporate government of the UNITED STATES has no jurisdiction or authority in ANY state of the Republic beyond the District of Columbia. Let this sink into your brain for a minute. Ask yourself, "Could this deception REALLY have occurred without the full knowledge and complicity of the Congress?" Do you think it happened by accident? You are deceiving yourself if you do. There are no accidents or coincidences. It is time to confront the truth and awaken from ignorance.

Your legislators will not apprise you of this information. You are presumed to know the law. THEY know you don't know the law, or your history for that matter, because this information has not been taught to you. No concerted effort has been made to inform you. As a Sovereign, you are entitled to full disclosure of the facts. As a slave, you are entitled to nothing other than what the corporation decides to "give" you — at a price. Be wary of accepting so-called "benefits" of the corporation of the UNITED STATES. Aren't you enslaved enough already?

I said (above) that you are presumed to know the law. Still, it matters not if you don't in the eyes of the corporation. Ignorance of the law is not considered an excuse. It is your responsibility and your obligation as an American to learn about the law and how it applies to you. THEY count on the fact that most people are too uninterested or distracted or lazy to do so. The People have been mentally conditioned to allow the alleged government to do their thinking for them. We need to turn that around if we are to save our Republic before it is too late.

The UNITED STATES government is basically a corporate instrument of the international bankers. This means YOU are owned by the corporation from birth to death. The corporate UNITED STATES also holds ownership of all your assets, your property, and even your children. Does this sound untrue? Think long and hard about all those bills you pay, all those various taxes and fines and licenses you must pay for. Yes, they've got you by the pockets. Actually, they've had you by the ass for as long as you've been alive. In your heart, you know it's true. Don't believe any of this? Read up on the 14th Amendment. Check out how "free" you really are.

With the Act of 1871 and subsequent legislation such as the purportedly ratified 14th Amendment, our once-great nation of Sovereigns has been subverted from a Republic to a democracy. As is the case under Roman Civil Law, our ignorance of the facts has led to our silence. Our silence has been construed as our consent to become beneficiaries of a debt we did not incur. The Sovereign People have been deceived for hundreds of years into thinking they remain free and independent, when in actuality we continue to be slaves and servants of the corporation.

Treason was committed against the People in 1871 by the Congress. This could have been corrected through the decades by some honest men (assuming there were some), but it was not, mainly due to lust for money and power. Nothing new there. Are we to forgive and justify this crime against the People? You have lost more freedom than you may realize due to corporate infiltration of the so-called government. We will lose more unless we turn away from a democracy that is the direct road to disaster — and restore our Constitutional Republic.

In an upcoming article, we'll take a closer look at the purportedly ratified 14th Amendment and how we became "property" of the corporation and enslaved by our silence.

I am saddened to think about the brave men and women who were killed in all the wars and conflicts instigated by the Controllers. These courageous souls fought for the preservation of ideals they believed to be true — not for the likes of a corporation. Do you believe that any one of the individuals who have been killed as a result of war would have willingly fought if they knew the full truth? Do you think one person would have laid down his life for a corporation? I think not. If the People had known long ago to what extent their trust had been betrayed, I wonder how long it would have taken for another Revolution. What we need is a Revolution in THOUGHT. We change our thinking and we change our world.

Will we ever restore the Republic? That is a question I cannot answer yet. I hope, and most of all — pray — that WE, the Sovereign People, will work together in a spirit of cooperation to make it happen in this lifetime. I know I will give it my best shot — come what may. Our children deserve their rightful legacy — the liberty our ancestors fought so hard to give to us. Will we remain silent telling ourselves we are free, and perpetuate the MYTH? Or, do we stand as One Sovereign People, and take back what has been stolen from the house of our Republic?

Something to think about — it's called freedom.

If we are stupid enough to surrender our freedom to a bunch of lousy international bankers, then we deserve to live in bondage. — Lisa Guliani

My heartfelt thanks goes out to the following people for their gracious and generous assistance in researching this subject: Ken S. of American Revolution II Online News, Paul Walker of RMN News, Bob Taft, Stanooch, and Willy Whitten — true Patriots, one and all.

Editor's note: Actually in the U.S. Code the term "United States" is said to have any of three meanings:

US CODE: Title 28,3002. Definitions (archived here)

(15) "United States" means —
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.

Note that (B) and (C) refer to (A), so basically, in the American legal code the "United States" is a federal corporation, not a country.

Further reading:

Trump This! — The Ineffable Elsewho

The United States is "a Federal corporation". It's a business, a red-white-and-blue mafia operating under the color of legal weasel words, and it is shaking you down for money, by armed force. It regards you as its numbered and catalogued property. It really is that simple. ...

There is not a "country" called the "United States of America." It is a CORPORATION and it considers you to be its property. Why would you want to save that hideous monstrosity and be a part of it? What is "great" or good about it? ...

I don't know, and neither do you, whether we are perhaps dealing with a malevolent, artificially intelligent machine monstrosity or an actual demonic entity known as the "United States", that is intricately protected by a fiendishly wicked government and body of so-called law that is not at all what it appears to be, because when you start to dig and examine what the "United States" really is, you run into blind alleys, nonsensical information, misdirection, reams and reams of legal weasel words and documents that mean something completely other than what they appear to mean, and one false façade after another that completely contradicts what we were all taught to believe is real and true.

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm

[Carl]

The levels of dumbassery in this thread just keeps growing......

It's as if you believe that if the U.S.G. didn't use 'all caps' in its wording, everything would somehow be different.

The real reason the U.S.G. is the way it is, it's not because it is a corporation, it's because people vote for and allow it.

[Bigjon]

The levels of dumbassery in this thread just keeps growing......

It's as if you believe that if the U.S.G. didn't use 'all caps' in its wording, everything would somehow be different.

The real reason the U.S.G. is the way it is, it's not because it is a corporation, it's because people vote for and allow it.

Well we have people like you to thank for that.

You are the one who says really dumb things like Capitalization in documents signify nothing.

[7th trump]

Palani likes to be different and he succeeds.

You mean "succeeds" that he has a LLC that he passes his taxes through and says he doesn't pay taxes but yet has to pay the taxes for the LLC hes liable for?
All he is doing with the LLC is changing the name of the taxes....hes still paying them kinda "success"...yeah ok...keep drinking his kool aid pal!

Says he doesn't own a vehicle and yet still drives the company truck that's used for the apartment complex hes a care taker of.....that kind of success?


Yeah "that" kinda intelligence....any question why he never cites any law or court ruling in his gibberish?

[Joshua01]

You mean "succeeds" that he has a LLC that he passes his taxes through and says he doesn't pay taxes but yet has to pay the taxes for the LLC hes liable for?
All he is doing with the LLC is changing the name of the taxes....hes still paying them kinda "success"...yeah ok...keep drinking his kool aid pal!

Says he doesn't own a vehicle and yet still drives the company truck that's used for the apartment complex hes a care taker of.....that kind of success?

Yeah "that" kinda intelligence....any question why he never cites any law or court ruling in his gibberish?


Well, what do you know....it's Mr. Sunshine here again spreading his love for mankind

[7th trump]

The levels of dumbassery in this thread just keeps growing......

It's as if you believe that if the U.S.G. didn't use 'all caps' in its wording, everything would somehow be different.

The real reason the U.S.G. is the way it is, it's not because it is a corporation, it's because people vote for and allow it.

And it keeps getting dumbassery with Palani and his internet conspiracy crap.

Yep the majority vote for the federal government to keep supporting them when the founding fathers never meant for that to be.

[7th trump]

Well, what do you know....it's Mr. Sunshine here again spreading his love for mankind

If there was a poisonous snake laying next to you and you didn't know it was poisonous I'd tell you.....same with lies and bullshit, but I guess knowing you and your bullshit you like to hear and spread the lies and bullshit!
You want everyone to run their lives according to your standard.

[Joshua01]

If there was a poisonous snake laying next to you and you didn't know it was poisonous I'd tell you.....same with lies and bullshit, but I guess knowing you and your bullshit you like to hear and spread the lies and bullshit!
You want everyone to run their lives according to your standard.

I don't want any of that. I have my own problems and also have no issue expressing my opinions. The only thing I will say is I'm the guy the MSM warned you about and I shoot back

[Bigjon]

You mean "succeeds" that he has a LLC that he passes his taxes through and says he doesn't pay taxes but yet has to pay the taxes for the LLC hes liable for?
All he is doing with the LLC is changing the name of the taxes....hes still paying them kinda "success"...yeah ok...keep drinking his kool aid pal!

Says he doesn't own a vehicle and yet still drives the company truck that's used for the apartment complex hes a care taker of.....that kind of success?


Yeah "that" kinda intelligence....any question why he never cites any law or court ruling in his gibberish?

Gee, geeze luise, you are a fucking moron in your own right. Palani is different and you are too, real different as in strange, weird.

[7th trump]

I don't want any of that. I have my own problems and also have no issue expressing my opinions. The only thing I will say is I'm the guy the MSM warned you about and I shoot back

Bullshit...you're the one who stepped into a thread having no beef in it.

Yeah you definitely have problems Hillbilly!

[7th trump]

Gee, geeze luise, you are a fucking moron in your own right. Palani is different and you are too, real different as in strange, weird.

Nothing palani says is backed by much if any law. And what is backed is taken out of context to fit his mental challenge. When confronted he changes the tune to another conspiracy.

[midnight rambler]

The levels of dumbassery in this thread just keeps growing......

It's as if you believe that if the U.S.G. didn't use 'all caps' in its wording, everything would somehow be different.

The real reason the U.S.G. is the way it is, it's not because it is a corporation, it's because people vote for and allow it.

Congress incorporated 'The District of Columbia' as a municipal corporation in 1871. This is irrefutable. There's NO provision for the creation of municipal corporations as governments in the Constitution.

Additionally, under the Uniform Commercial Code there's such a thing as 'a conspicuous term or clause'. In Black's Law Dictionary 5th Edition a conspicuous term or clause is defined thusly:

"A cause or term is conspicuous when a reasonable person against it is to operate ought to have noticed it. A clause or term is conspicuous when written in boldface, italics, underlined, in contrasting colors or typed in all capital letters." (emphasis mine)

Anyone who asserts "there's nothing to names in all caps" is totally clueless or suffering from willful ignorance*. The reason all the bills you get from CORPORATIONS have YOUR NAME IN ALL CAPS is because the bill has been addressed to the legal fiction, not the flesh and blood living soul. Legal fictions can only deal with other legal fictions, legal fictions CANNOT have intercourse with flesh and blood living souls.

*regarding the reach of the Uniform Commercial Code since the UCC encompasses ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in your life with respect to debt and debt instruments, and yes that includes FRNs since FRNs are debt on their face as well as being defined as debt in Title 12

[Carl]

Congress incorporated 'The District of Columbia' as a municipal corporation in 1871. This is irrefutable. There's NO provision for the creation of municipal corporations as governments in the Constitution.

Municipal Corporation (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Municipal+Corporation)



Additionally, under the Uniform Commercial Code there's such a thing as 'a conspicuous term or clause'. In Black's Law Dictionary 5th Edition a conspicuous term or clause is defined thusly:

"A cause or term is conspicuous when a reasonable person against it is to operate ought to have noticed it. A clause or term is conspicuous when written in boldface, italics, underlined, in contrasting colors or typed in all capital letters." (emphasis mine)

Exactly, all other meanings attached to "all capital letters" other than just making the text conspicuous, is just bullshit conspiracy theory.

[7th trump]

Congress incorporated 'The District of Columbia' as a municipal corporation in 1871. This is irrefutable. There's NO provision for the creation of municipal corporations as governments in the Constitution.

Additionally, under the Uniform Commercial Code there's such a thing as 'a conspicuous term or clause'. In Black's Law Dictionary 5th Edition a conspicuous term or clause is defined thusly:

"A cause or term is conspicuous when a reasonable person against it is to operate ought to have noticed it. A clause or term is conspicuous when written in boldface, italics, underlined, in contrasting colors or typed in all capital letters." (emphasis mine)

Anyone who asserts "there's nothing to names in all caps" is totally clueless or suffering from willful ignorance*. The reason all the bills you get from CORPORATIONS have YOUR NAME IN ALL CAPS is because the bill has been addressed to the legal fiction, not the flesh and blood living soul. Legal fictions can only deal with other legal fictions, legal fictions CANNOT have intercourse with flesh and blood living souls.

*regarding the reach of the Uniform Commercial Code since the UCC encompasses ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in your life with respect to debt and debt instruments, and yes that includes FRNs since FRNs are debt on their face as well as being defined as debt in Title 12

And theres nothing in the Constitution forbidding Congress to incorporate either ya brain dead SOB!!

The flesh and blood has always dealt with fictions...Palani is a prime example of this with his LLC that he passes all his personal tax liability through and making it APPEAR he doesnt pay taxes...but he has to pay all the taxes the LLC is liable for which are the same ones he passes through.
Its the same street game of guess what cup the quarter is hiding under after they juggle the cups around....you freaken retard.


The only fool here is you and a couple of others for believing the bullshit from other internet fools who share the same low IQ!

[palani]

...beyond me.

When your eyes cannot see don't be surprised if your brain cannot interpret.

[palani]

.any question why he never cites any law or court ruling in his gibberish?

You assume written law on its' own is some form of authority? Or a court ruling is some form of authority or law?

Superman comic books are written. Surely you believe in Kryptonite then?

And LLCs are corporations. A FRN is a corporate coupon of sorts. Why wouldn't a corporation make use of the corporate coupons intended for them? Perhaps you don't understand that these same corporate coupons are fatal to the status of Man should they be discovered in his wallet?

You can continue pretending that you are a corporation and can handle those FRNs with impunity but perhaps at some time in the future you will reflect what you might have achieved had you not been saddled with defending a faulty position because you are BLIND.

[Bigjon]

And theres nothing in the Constitution forbidding Congress to incorporate either ya brain dead SOB!!

The flesh and blood has always dealt with fictions...Palani is a prime example of this with his LLC that he passes all his personal tax liability through and making it APPEAR he doesnt pay taxes...but he has to pay all the taxes the LLC is liable for which are the same ones he passes through.
Its the same street game of guess what cup the quarter is hiding under after they juggle the cups around....you freaken retard.


The only fool here is you and a couple of others for believing the bullshit from other internet fools who share the same low IQ!

If it does not say they CAN do something, they can't do it.

If it's not in the Constitution, the right to do "SOMETHING" devolves to the STATES OR TO THE PEOPLE.

If you MORONS CARL AND 7TH change on letter in the document called this Constitution it is a totally different document. And that includes changing letter case from lower to capital.

[Bigjon]

Municipal Corporation (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Municipal+Corporation)




Exactly, all other meanings attached to "all capital letters" other than just making the text conspicuous, is just bullshit conspiracy theory.

Using 21'st century definitions for 16th century documents, now there's a twist.

[Carl]

Using 21'st century definitions for 16th century documents, now there's a twist.

Bigjon, you need to do a little research before commenting, it could save you some embarrassment.

Municipal corporations have been around for centuries and their construct have remained consistent throughout that time. Municipal incorporation occurs when such municipalities become self-governing entities under the laws of the state or province in which they are located. In the United States, such municipal corporations are established by charters that are granted either directly by a state legislature by means of local legislation, or indirectly under a general municipal corporation law, usually after the proposed charter has passed a referendum vote of the affected population.

Now, if you were truly knowledgeable of the subject, you would've supported your assertions with evidence, such as forwarding proof that the definition for municipal corporations formed in the past were indeed different from the definition provided. Same holds true for the Constitution, you should be more that capable of providing proof that there are two different versions of the untitled document, other than some nutball theory pulled out your dumbass ranting about variations in the way the document is referenced. And you've already proved your 'ALL CAPS" argument is nothing more than idiotic bullshit so why do you keep bringing that up?

[Bigjon]

Bigjon, you need to do a little research before commenting, it could save you some embarrassment.

Municipal corporations have been around for centuries and their construct have remained consistent throughout that time. Municipal incorporation occurs when such municipalities become self-governing entities under the laws of the state or province in which they are located. In the United States, such municipal corporations are established by charters that are granted either directly by a state legislature by means of local legislation, or indirectly under a general municipal corporation law, usually after the proposed charter has passed a referendum vote of the affected population.

Now, if you were truly knowledgeable of the subject, you would've supported your assertions with evidence, such as forwarding proof that the definition for municipal corporations formed in the past were indeed different from the definition provided. Same holds true for the Constitution, you should be more that capable of providing proof that there are two different versions of the untitled document, other than some nutball theory pulled out your dumbass ranting about variations in the way the document is referenced. And you've already proved your 'ALL CAPS" argument is nothing more than idiotic bullshit so why do you keep bringing that up?

And your source is Carl's BULL SHIT DEPARTMENT.


http://famguardian.org/Subjects/LawAndGovt/Articles/MemLawOnTheName.htm

20. All Caps Legal Person vs. The Lawful Being

Just who or what is the all-caps person, i.e. "JOHN PAUL JONES," "JOHN P JONES," or some other all capital letter corruption thereof? It is the entity the government created to take the place of the real being, i.e. John Paul Jones.

The lawful Christian name of birthright has been replaced with a legal corporate name of deceit and fraud. If the lawful Christian name answers as the legal person, the two are recognized as being one and the same.

However, if the lawful being distinguishes himself/herself as a party other than the legal fiction, the two are separated.

A result of the federal bankruptcy was the creation of the "UNITED STATES," which was made a part of the legal reorganization. The name of each STATE was also converted to its respective, all-caps legal person, e.g. STATE OF DELAWARE. These new legal persons were then used to create more legal persons, such as corporations, with all-capital letters names, as well. Once this was accomplished, the con began to pick up speed.
All areas of government and all alleged "courts of law," are de facto, "color of law and right" institutions. The "CIRCUIT COURT OF WAYNE COUNTY" and the "U.S. DISTRICT COURT" can recognize and deal only with other legal persons. This is why a lawful name is never entered in their records. The all-caps legal person is used instead. Jurisdiction in such sham courts covers only other artificial persons.

The proper jurisdiction for a lawful being is a Constitutionally sanctioned, common-law-venue court. Unfortunately, such jurisdiction was "shelved" in 1938 and is no longer available. The only courts today are statutory commercial tribunals collecting tribute (plunder) from the alleged Creditors who think they have conquered the country on their way to ruling the world.

21. Your Strawman is a "GOVERNMENT AGENCY": See the Evidence From the Government's Own manual!!

See the “U.S. Government Styles Manual” for the evidence in section on

“ABBREVIATIONS AND LETTER SYMBOLS” at:http://www.access.gpo.gov/styleman/2000/pdf/chap09.pdf (https://docs.google.com/viewer?docex=1&url=http://www.access.gpo.gov/styleman/2000/pdf/chap09.pdf)

This section states (emphasis added):
9.8. Except as otherwise designated, points and spaces are omitted after initials used as shortened names of
governmental agencies and of other organized bodies.

``Other organized bodies'' shall be interpreted to mean organized bodies that have become popularly identified with a symbol, such as MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology), GM (General Motors), GMAC (General Motors Acceptance Corp.), etc. (See ``List of Abbreviations.'') Symbols, when they appear in copy, may be used for acts of Congress.

Example: ARA (Area Redevelopment Act).VFWNLRBTVAAFL-CIOARCASTM

Now do you see the trick?The “governmental agency” for “John-Jay:Jones” is: “JOHN JAY JONES”.

There is no conspiracy about this -- it is just “hidden” in plain sight!!!

Chapter 11 deals with "Italics" and in 11.7 mentions that "Vessels" are in "other than lowercase roman". An "Vessel" is defined in 18 USC 9 as "…
any citizen thereof or any corporation created by or under the laws of the United States or any State or Territory or district or possession."

See links below:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/styleman/2000/pdf/chap11.pdf (https://docs.google.com/viewer?docex=1&url=http://www.access.gpo.gov/styleman/2000/pdf/chap11.pdf)
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/9.html

[Bigjon]

Bigjon, you need to do a little research before commenting, it could save you some embarrassment.

Municipal corporations have been around for centuries and their construct have remained consistent throughout that time. Municipal incorporation occurs when such municipalities become self-governing entities under the laws of the state or province in which they are located. In the United States, such municipal corporations are established by charters that are granted either directly by a state legislature by means of local legislation, or indirectly under a general municipal corporation law, usually after the proposed charter has passed a referendum vote of the affected population.

Now, if you were truly knowledgeable of the subject,

Now, if you were truly knowledgeable of the subject, instead of such an unrepentant bullshitter.

You would know that to incorporate 'SOMETHING' it has to be under something greater.

What is your UNITED STATES INC under?

[Carl]

Now, if you were truly knowledgeable of the subject, instead of such an unrepentant bullshitter.

You would know that to incorporate 'SOMETHING' it has to be under something greater.

What is your UNITED STATES INC under?

The U.S. Constitution you dumb fuck!

Geez you're stupid.

[Bigjon]

The U.S. Constitution you dumb fuck!

Geez you're stupid.

What the hell are you talking about, you stupid idiot.

The Constitution FOR are rules to limit the Federal Gov.
The Constitution OF was adopted as a corp charter for the corp.
The Constitution OF is a look-alike fake, a false doc. The thieves called congress changed the meaning of words, left out whole parts, changed parts.

In 1877 during reconstruction for a second time the Congress incorporated the Federal Gov.

called UNITED STATES.

YOU ARE LOST CARL.

Reach behind you and feel around maybe you can still find your ass.

[Ares]

What the hell are you talking about, you stupid idiot.

The Constitution FOR are rules to limit the Federal Gov.
The Constitution OF was adopted as a corp charter for the corp.
The Constitution OF is a look-alike fake, a false doc. The thieves called congress changed the meaning of words, left out whole parts, changed parts.

In 1877 during reconstruction for a second time the Congress incorporated the Federal Gov.

called UNITED STATES.

YOU ARE LOST CARL.

Reach behind you and feel around maybe you can still find your ass.

He's right Carl. This gentleman stopped the Feds in their tracks as he discovered that in federal definitions the word "state" (no matter which one) refers to the District of Columbia.

https://supremecourtcase.wordpress.com/

There's a ton of information there which details his progress.

We do not have a government that recognizes the limitations placed upon it by the Constitution because it is a corporation which bears no resemblance to the government our country was founded upon.

[Bigjon]

Maybe someone can download this puppy, I can't seem to get any of the formatting to xfer.


https://archive.org/download/WhyThe14thAmendmentIsAPoliticalTrojanHorse/WhyThe14thAmendmentIsAPoliticalTrojanHorse.pdf (https://archive.org/download/WhyThe14thAmendmentIsAPoliticalTrojanHorse/WhyThe14thAmendmentIsAPoliticalTrojanHorse.pdf)

Congress incorporate and go into business.

Section 1 of the Act of February 21, 1871, provides, in pertinent part:
Be it enacted . . . That all that part of the territory of the United States included within the limits of the District of Columbia be, and the same is hereby, created into a government by the name of the

District of Columbia, by which name it is hereby constituted a body corporate [96] for municipal [97]

purposes, and may contract and be contracted with, sue and be sued, plea and be impleaded, have a seal, and exercise all other powers of a municipal corporation . . .98 [U/L emphasis added.]

Prior to the Act of February 21, 1871, “District of Columbia” means only one thing: seat of the Government of the United States. Since then it has three distinct senses or meanings; to wit:

 Geographical: territory comprising the seat of the Government of the United States;

 Governmental: government created out of the territory comprising the seat of the
Government of the United States; and

 Political: municipal corporation constituted for political purposes from the name of the
government created out of the territory comprising the seat of the Government of the United States.

If not identified with particularity in official pronouncements/legislation it is impossible to know exactly which sense or meaning of “District of Columbia” is intended or applies.

The primary barrier to understanding State and Federal law is that it is littered with specially defined terms—which no longer have their character as words.

Further complicating things is use of another specially defined term, “includes,” which appears frequently within the definitions of other terms, especially “State” and “United States”— and there are no less than 75 different definitions of “United States” scattered throughout the 50 titles of the United States Code.


Rothschild shifts political power from the private Bank of England to the private Federal Reserve.

The Bank of England was thus created for political reasons, It was preceded by the goldsmiths and their banking methods, which again were due to political events and had received from them their peculiar form; it has been supported and attacked for political purposes. 99

The Federal Reserve is not an agency of government. It is a private banking monopoly.100
Congressman John R. Rarick, 1971.96

BODY CORPORATE. A corporation. Black’s Law Dictionary, 2nd ed., s.v. “Body Corporate.” 97MUNICIPAL CORPORATION. A public corporation, created by government for political purposes, and having subordinate and local powers of legislation . . . [Emphasis added.] Ibid, s.v. “Municipal corporation.” 98“ An Act to provide a Government for the District of Columbia,” Ch. 62, Sec. 18, 16 Stat. 419, February 21, 1871; later legislated in “An Act Providing a Permanent Form of Government for the District of Columbia,” Ch.180, Sec. 1, 20 Stat. 102, June 11, 1878, to remain and continue as a municipal corporation (brought forward from
the Act of 1871, as provided in the Act of March 2, 1877, amended and approved March 9, 1878, i.e., Sec. 2 of the Revised Statutes of the United States Relating to the District of Columbia . . . 1873–’74); as amended by the Act of June 28, 1935, 49 Stat. 430, ch. 332, Sec. 1 (Title 1, Section 102, District of Columbia Code (1940)). 99Andréadès, 11.100

Rep. John R. Rarick, “Deficit Financing,” Congressional Record (House of Representatives), 92nd Congress, First Session, Vol. 117—Part 1, February 1, 1971, 1260.

[Carl]

Why do you believe reposting bullshit, which is based upon a lack of reading comprehension skills, validates the bullshit?

It just amazes me how fucking illiterate and gullible you dumb fucks are.

[Bigjon]

Well I post stuff, because things on the internet have a way of disappearing.

This is stolen from BB.

Seems like this is as appropriate as the rest of this thread.

Seriously folks?

You don't understand why The Ticker has faded to black?

REALLY?

Let me start with this: Why do drug dealers shoot each other on street corners?

Answer: Joe the drug dealer cannot call the cops and tell them that Jack the drug dealer ripped him off and sold him a bag of oreganoinstead of weed. Joe also can't sue Jack. Thus, when the threshold of his tolerance is crossed Joe has only the use of direct force available to himbecause he has no recourse to the law to settle his dispute with Jack.

The FIRST foundation of civil society is The Rule of Law. Without it there is literally nothing other than the Law of the Jungle,commonly known as "he who has the biggest teeth (or the most guns) and is willing to use them first wins."

Let me remind you that Han Solo, who is widely regarded through the Star Wars series as a hero, shot first at Mos Eisley. George Lucas edited that in the second release of the film (and later had to put it back after fan outrage) but it is a fact that Han shot first in the original theatrical release.Why did Han shoot first and kill Greedo? Because he knew there was no Rule of Law and he had no recourse to the law,which incidentally was later proved to be an exactly correct expectation when he was made an ornament in Jabba's castle.

Now I want you to stop reading, go get an adult beverage or a cup of coffee, and think long and hard before you continue reading about the above.

Why?

BECAUSE THE ABOVE IS THE ISSUE THAT, IF WE FAIL TO ADDRESS IT IN THE PRESENT TENSE, RUNS THE RISK OF RESULTING IN AN IRREVOCABLE SERIES OF EVENTS IN THIS COUNTRY UP TO AND INCLUDING POSSIBLE CIVIL WAR.


Did you go get your drink, consume it, and think?

Good -- you may now continue.

This site was founded back in the early part of the financial crisis, spring of 2007 to be exact, because the Rule of Law was being blatantly disregarded -- specifically, with regard to "Prompt Corrective Action" and banks that were paying out dividends with fictitious earnings.

Did anyone go to prison for doing that? No.

Did anyone go to prison for selling "good investments" to clients that they described in their own internal emails and on recorded internal conference calls as "vomit" and "dog squeeze"? NO.

Did anyone go to prison for claiming to Congress (and all testimony to Congress is under oath) that they were "adding liquidity" to the system during the meltdown when I found, in public records, that in fact over $60 billion was pulled from the system into the maw of Lehman's collapse?That facially appears to be perjury, incidentally. The answer is again NO.

How many hundreds of thousands of Americans lost jobs and homes as a direct result of this? How many lives were ruined? Now ask this: How many people were made whole on the damage they suffered as a result of these acts, all of which were facial violations of the law?

NONE.


It is broadly illegal to price-fix via any mechanism where market power exists. So says 15 United States Code, Chapter 1. (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-1) Go read it. Virtually theentire US Medical System operates on business models that are facially in violation of that section of law. The latest outrage is an off-patent device called an "Epipen" (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/10/21/soaring-epipen-prices-raise-questions-about-pharmaceutical-industry/) used for severe allergic reactions; if you need one and don't have it you have a very good chance of dying. They cost about $60 10 years ago, and are about $100 today anywhere else in the world.Except here in the United States -- where they're $400, and if you get on a plane, buy a bunch and bring them back to sell (to make a profit and undercut the price) you go to prison. The exact same sort of price-fixingwith the direct support of the US government and FDA is present in virtually every area of medical practice -- from drugs to devices to hospitals. All of this facially appears to be illegal; were I to even have had adiscussion with a competitor on fixing pricing when I ran my Internet company that would have been a federal offense.

How many people are dead -- broke -- or both as a direct result of these practices? There is an entire industry that accounts for nearly one dollar in five spent on all items in our economy and it has multiplied its share of spending by a factor of roughly six through the use of these tactics. You, I and everyone else in the country are being overcharged by a factor of five times as a result,it's destroying the Federal budget and has or will destroy state and local budgets also. You can't run a car repair shop without quoting prices before you start turning wrenches and yet it is essentiallyimpossible to get a price, nor to bind the hospital to any figure they give you, for a procedure before it is done.


What did you see this last week with James Comey? The head of the FBI stood at the podium and described, facially, a felony violation of the law, which I remind you does not require intent, and then said "no prosecutor would bring the case." Then, one business day later, he sat in Congressand described knowing that a second felony violation of the law, perjury, had taken place and yet he insisted that he needed a "referral" to "investigate" it.

Folks, if you were being interviewed because the cops thought you robbed a bank and on your kitchen table was a bale of marijuana do you think they'd need a "referral" to bust you for the weed? You know damn well the handcuffs would be on you in seconds, so why weren't they on Hillary?

Next, if there was no intent as Comey claimed he could not find why did she lie repeatedly, both to the public and Congress, about the presence of classified information on her server? You don't lieabout something you aren't trying to hide and you don't hide something that doesn't incriminate you! Prosecutors argue this every single day before juries and get thousands of convictions every year on exactly that basis -- the accused lied about something they did and that lie is evidence that they knew what they were doing was wrong as that's the only reason to lie about it!

Another section of the same law attaches liability to anyone who is involved in these acts and fails to report them. That facially involves Bill and Chelsea Clinton as well as Hillary's entire senior staff!This issue is, again, not just limited to Hillary's conduct. As persons with security clearances (with the possible exception of Chelsea) they all were aware of the law and their positive obligation to immediately report any breach of security of classified information, and failure to do so is a criminal offense.

Finally, contrary to Comey's assertions (which were also a lie, and since they were made to Congress were also Perjury, a felony violation of the law) there indeed are people who not only have been but are beingprosecuted for quite-similar violations of the law with regard to classified data. Specifically there are service members who have beenarrested (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3173842/U-S-sailor-charged-taking-photos-inside-nuclear-submarine.html), not just demoted or had their security clearances revoked, for putting classified information on unauthorized devices. One, Kristian Saucier, faces 20 years in prison; there is no apparent public evidence that this individual ever allowed anyone outside of trusted Navy circles to see the images. Comey made the blanket statement that the government does not prosecute people who do not give said information intentionally to our enemies; his statement before Congress was a lie.


If I, as an ordinary person, fire a gun I own every single round that comes out of the barrel until it comes to rest. Even if I am perfectly justified in drawing and firing that weapon if I shoot an innocent person I remain responsible for the round that did not go where I intended it to and the results of same. Now contrast this with the police of any stripe, who may fire indiscriminately, emptying weapons containing dozens of rounds even into targets that are facially wrong such as a pair of women in a truck when they are seeking a man in California, and yet they are never held accountable for the damage those rounds do to either person or property.

How many people are dead in Orlando not as a result of a terrorist but rather due to the rounds fired by police, along with their intentional 3+ hour delay in entering the building? Where are the manslaugher (or felonious assault) charges for the persons who were hit with wildly-sprayed rounds from police weapons during that breach? Why has there been no accounting for those rounds and the persons killed by them? Why is there never any accounting for said rounds fired by the police wildly and with outrageous disregard for innocent persons in the vicinity? You or I would be charged immediately for such a flagrant display of gross negligence, likely with multiple felonies.


If that's not enough the shooter in Dallas was cornered -- "treed" if you will, isolated in a parking garage from which he could not escape. Rather than wait him out and arrest him, then go through this entire pesky "due process" thing including a trial and sentence even though he was not presently shooting at anyone the police instead mounted a bomb on a robot and blew him up. You got that folks? Yeah, he was obviously guilty as hell but if you catch someone having just killed your daughter and he's cornered in your shed, either out of ammo or choosing not to shoot at that time, you cannot blow the shed up rather than arrest him! Due process of law? What's that?

You idiots cheered that on too and yet what you just invited the next guy to do is throw a grenade or make damn sure he has a really BIG bomb with him instead of surrendering when cornered! If one person has no right to due process of law THEN NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE -- including the cops.


Folks, all of what has gone on of late is traceable and chargeable to the destruction of The Rule of Law. The destruction of millions of American's financial status, their wealth, their freedom, their health and frequently their very lives are destroyed because CERTAIN PEOPLE,namely the rich, politically powerful, those wearing a "blue" costume of some sort or those who happen to run big corporations can and dowhatever they wish and are simply not prosecuted for violations of the law that you, I, or anyone else would be and are.

When you back a bear into a corner it will attack you because it perceives that as the only remaining course of action that it has available to it other than death.

We created the conditions under which drug dealers resort to shooting each other because we made the consensual act of trade in and consumption of certain substances a crime, and by doing so denied them any other recourse under the law for disputes among themselves.

They are at fault for shooting at one another but it is our responsibility because we intentionally removed their recourse to the law.

We created the conditions under which millions of Americans, most of whom are not drug dealers, believe they have no recourse to the law through our willful and intentional acts and then we sit still, swill beer and post on Facebook when the fact that ordinary Americans have no recourse to the law as soon as someone rich, powerful or wearing a costume who wants to screw them. That message - "you have no recourse"is driven in day after day as every "important person", cop or company you care to name pulls some stunt that would result in anyone elsefacing down an immediate felony indictment and walks awaylaughing or, equally as bad, collects hugs, donuts and, for corporate executives, million dollar bonuses.

Specifically, and in reference to recent events, it is our refusal to demand that police officers be held accountable for every round they fire just as is any other person.

It is our refusal to demand that those in political power who perjure themselves are prosecuted while if you lie you go to prison for obstruction of justice.

It is our refusal to demand that the cops who claimed (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/09/open-carry-activist-labeled-suspect-in-dallas-shooting-says-police-defamed-him.html)they had video footage of an innocent man shooting and plastered same all over the media (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/09/open-carry-activist-labeled-suspect-in-dallas-shooting-says-police-defamed-him.html) when they knew they did not be prosecuted for intentionallycausing him to be subjected to death threats and have his reputation destroyed while if he had told the slightest untruth to said cops he would have been charged with obstruction, lying to investigators or both. Worse, instead of tendering that demand and sticking to it we bring the cops donuts, pay for their lunches and post all sorts of laudatory crap on social media, cheering on the lies!

It is our refusal to demand that an officer who claims to pull over a car for a broken tail-light when both lights are clearly illuminated on the dashcam video and then shoots said motorist be immediately brought up on murder charges and as prime evidence of his guilt we use his intentionally false statement that he was stopping the car for a broken taillight.

It is our refusal to demand that police officers who steal property under so-called "civil forfeiture" when they have no actual offense they can charge the owner with be prosecuted and imprisoned for grand theft and the entire department so-involved dismantled for Racketeering, exactly as you or I would be if we all got together and held people up at gunpoint claiming that they had committed some crime, stealing everything they owned.

It is our refusal to demand that executives in the medical and pharmaceutical industries face the music for conduct that facially appears to violate hundred-year old anti-trust laws that not only mandate a decade long prison sentence for said executives they come with company-ruining fines big enough on a per-count basis to destroy any corporation that pulls this crap.

It is our refusal to demand that all of the "finance professionals" who sold mathematically impossible schemes in the pension and insurance space to teachers, police officers, firemen and others go to prison and have their firms confiscated for promising that which is impossible.

And it is our refusal to hold accountable all in a given role who are aware of this rank corruption, have taken an oath to uphold the law and have violated that oath by either not doing their job directly or sitting silently while others refuse to do so. It is illegal for a person to be associated with Daesh even if they do not personally commit a terrorist act. Given that fact why can any member of a police force or other government agency, whether federal, state or local, cover up or refuse to investigateblatantly unlawful behavior without everyone involved in same being charged as co-conspirators when the law clearly defines that someone who acts as an accessory before or after the fact isequally liable.

If this issue -- the utter destruction of The Rule of Law -- is not addressed now there is a very real risk that the spiral of events that has been growing, first slowly and now exponentially, could erupt into literal war within our own nation.

If it does you had better get up and look in the damned mirror because it is the collective inaction and refusal to demand the restoration of the Rule of Law by the American people that has and will lead to this outcome.

It is for this reason that I have decided that for the present I am going to go enjoy whatever time is left in a reasonably-peaceful society here in America instead of writing for your consumption, for I neither believe that this relatively-peaceful state of affairs will persist for long nor do I believe any material number of people will lift a single finger to do anything about it.

Eight years is enough time to see whether or not there is anyindication that any material percentage of the public gives a good damn and absent a marked change in the evidence my verdict is in.

Han was not wrong in his assessment of the state of Rule of Law in the Star Wars Universe. We must not, as a society, allow that assessment among people in this nation to continue on the path it is on here in the United States or the outcome will be the same.

https://market-ticker.org/

Come now Mr Denninger, there is no rule of law, its always been a facade & an illusion.... Point is, its always been law of rule...

[7th trump]

Why do you believe reposting bullshit, which is based upon a lack of reading comprehension skills, validates the bullshit?

It just amazes me how fucking illiterate and gullible you dumb fucks are.

Been saying that in not such a nice way as you put it for a long time now.
And the sad thing is Carl they all would rather believe a lie when the truth is right in front of them. Just too damn lazy all the way through.

They truly are dangerous and untrustworthy to be around when the shit hits the fan. They are not honest to the core!

[Horn]

Further reading:


*Trump This! — The Ineffable Elsewho (http://eventhorizonchronicle.blogspot.com/2015/10/trump-this-ineffable-elsewho.html)*
The United States is "a Federal corporation". It's a business, a red-white-and-blue mafia operating under the color of legal weasel words, and it is shaking you down for money, by armed force. It regards you as its numbered and catalogued property. It really is that simple. ...There is not a "country" called the "United States of America." It is a CORPORATION and it considers you to be its property. Why would you want to save that hideous monstrosity and be a part of it? What is "great" or good about it? ...
I don't know, and neither do you, whether we are perhaps dealing with a malevolent, artificially intelligent machine monstrosity or an actual demonic entity known as the "United States", that is intricately protected by a fiendishly wicked government and body of so-called law that is not at all what it appears to be, because when you start to dig and examine what the "United States" really is, you run into blind alleys, nonsensical information, misdirection, reams and reams of legal weasel words and documents that mean something completely other than what they appear to mean, and one false façade after another that completely contradicts what we were all taught to believe is real and true.



Trump and 7th are Bigtime USinc., Bigjon

so you can expect atleast 4 more years until any small lifetime books are balanced.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBAl9cchQac

[palani]

It just amazes me how fucking illiterate and gullible you dumb fucks are.
You're so fricken intelligent the only argument you can present is to revert to ad hominem. This automatically places you in the LOSER category. Is that where someone of your advanced intelligence believes he belongs?

[Bigjon]

You're so fricken intelligent the only argument you can present is to revert to ad hominem. This automatically places you in the LOSER category. Is that where someone of your advanced intelligence believes he belongs?

Well I was going to comment that I see he found his ass and it's doing all his thinking for him.

[palani]

https://adask.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/capitalized-proper-names-vs-all-upper-case-names/

As always Adask does a pretty good job discussing aspects of the ALL-CAPS controversy. Be sure to read the comments.

[Ares]

Carl and 7th Trump would be correct, IF we were actually a nation that was ruled by law. We are not, and have not been since at least 1864. No one ever bothered to ask if Congress had the authority to create a corporation and use that as a facade to rule the country. Who gave Congress the authority to delegate their authority of money to a private for profit corporation known as the federal reserve?

As much as 7th Trump, Carl and even Palani at times likes to say we are a nation of law we are not. We are a nation ruled by an Oligarchy who cares not if you're a U.S. Citizen, an American National, or a Resident Alien. You can claim your sovereign right until you're blue in the face to the cop who pulled you over for no license plate. He can then claim he saw you reaching for a gun and execute you on the side of the road. Toss a throw away gun in your lap and no one will dispute him.

We are not a nation of laws.

[palani]

We are not a nation of laws.

Don't mistake statute for law. Violating a law comes with a penalty. These things become law when someone figures out the reason for them. When the reason goes away then so does the law. This cannot be said of statute. Statutes seem like they can hang around for centuries without expiration or without the need for reason

Reason does not require law. Law requires reason.

Say you are buzzing around the skies of Chicago in a J3 Cub. You get an idea and decide to contact approach control at O'Hare to see if you can do a couple touch-n-go's in the pattern. There is no law against this but it does go against reason. I doubt if the air traffic controller will agree to allow this.

Now say you are buzzing the skies of Chicago in a J3 Cub and experience an engine failure. You contact O'Hare tower and declare an in-flight emergency and tell 'em you are on short approach for landing at 22R. This is not an unreasonable action.

Rather than discussing law we ought to be discussing reason.

[Ares]

Don't mistake statute for law. Violating a law comes with a penalty. These things become law when someone figures out the reason for them. When the reason goes away then so does the law. This cannot be said of statute. Statutes seem like they can hang around for centuries without expiration or without the need for reason

Reason does not require law. Law requires reason.

Say you are buzzing around the skies of Chicago in a J3 Cub. You get an idea and decide to contact approach control at O'Hare to see if you can do a couple touch-n-go's in the pattern. There is no law against this but it does go against reason. I doubt if the air traffic controller will agree to allow this.

Now say you are buzzing the skies of Chicago in a J3 Cub and experience an engine failure. You contact O'Hare tower and declare an in-flight emergency and tell 'em you are on short approach for landing at 22R. This is not an unreasonable action.

Rather than discussing law we ought to be discussing reason.


I realize statutes are not law. But tell that to the officer who pulled you over for no license plate and accusing you of breaking the "law".

Because this is what we have:

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/14/14e262c071c156b962c3c2c4818fa4c99ea6958fb78b8ae6e6 6855e625e681a0.jpg

[palani]

tell that to the officer who pulled you over for no license plate

Corporate policy men control corporate law.

It is the auto that is lacking the license plate.

Me personally? I came with no portion of my body designed or designated to install a license plate.

[Ares]

Corporate policy men control corporate law.

It is the auto that is lacking the license plate.

Me personally? I came with no portion of my body designed or designated to install a license plate.

Again, tell that to the dipshit cop that pulls you over. I get it, but the moron with a gun who represents the corporate state doesn't get it and doesn't care too.

[palani]

Again, tell that to the dipshit cop that pulls you over. I get it, but the moron with a gun who represents the corporate state doesn't get it and doesn't care too.
I expect he is smarter than you think but I wouldn't attempt to educate him along the side of the road. Just accept everything he offers in an agreeable fashion realizing that he has to deal with a spectrum of things that range from control by nature, necessity, experience and reason. Your experience will vary depending upon which of these systems you are controlled by.

Nature and necessity are the modes he is most on alert for. In nature tooth and claw are the general rule. In necessity the rule is you can kill anyone to insure your own survival. Those seeking an experience are the ones who survive encounters but might have dents in their skull. Those that are reasonable get to leave with a smile on their face.

[7th trump]

Carl and 7th Trump would be correct, IF we were actually a nation that was ruled by law. We are not, and have not been since at least 1864. No one ever bothered to ask if Congress had the authority to create a corporation and use that as a facade to rule the country. Who gave Congress the authority to delegate their authority of money to a private for profit corporation known as the federal reserve?

As much as 7th Trump, Carl and even Palani at times likes to say we are a nation of law we are not. We are a nation ruled by an Oligarchy who cares not if you're a U.S. Citizen, an American National, or a Resident Alien. You can claim your sovereign right until you're blue in the face to the cop who pulled you over for no license plate. He can then claim he saw you reaching for a gun and execute you on the side of the road. Toss a throw away gun in your lap and no one will dispute him.

We are not a nation of laws.

For one thing Ares a sovereign will have a license plate on the car if the state says you will. License plates are a state subject matter, not a federal subject matter. And most sovereigns believe they are above the state...they aren't with state issues. If you had a clue you would know this instead of posting ignorant conspiracy crap. The Bill of Rights rest at the state level, the feds will not enforce them...........they really cant. Most people get it wrong that the Bill of Rights rests at the federal level because the Bill of Rights is written in the Federal Constitution. The reason being is the feds are below the state level. They can only come to your defense when the state (for simplistic reasons) violates the Bill of Rights on an individual basis.
Ive posted many times court cites explaining the Bill of Rights...all of them reference the Bill of Rights at a state level (We the People). And federal "US citizens" hardly get any protections from the Bill of Rights because the feds have written a separate Act outlining their rights as "Civil Rights". The Bill of Rights and the Civil Rights Act of 1866 are two totally different jurisdictions...one state and one federal.
With all do respect Ares, to say what your saying is admission you don't really have a complete understanding of what it is you're talking about when it comes to this issue. And for those who have a better understanding you are just really spreading ignorance in the form of conspiracy.
Carl has really hit the nail on the head with you guys....just ignorant arm chair lawyers.

Throw everything Palani has to say in the garbage...because that's what it is.....garbage! And the fool is not helping anyone get a better understanding to help pull themselves straight up out of the mud by their boot straps. If anything hes throwing mud in your eyes and clouding your intelligence.

[Ares]

For one thing Ares a sovereign will have a license plate on the car if the state says you will. License plates are a state subject matter, not a federal subject matter. And most sovereigns believe they are above the state...they aren't with state issues. If you had a clue you would know this instead of posting ignorant conspiracy crap. The Bill of Rights rest at the state level, the feds will not enforce them...........they really cant. Most people get it wrong that the Bill of Rights rests at the federal level because the Bill of Rights is written in the Federal Constitution. The reason being is the feds are below the state level. They can only come to your defense when the state (for simplistic reasons) violates the Bill of Rights on an individual basis.

Clueless as always.. Okay 7th Trump can you show me the LAW that says that a privately owned not for profit vehicle needs to have a license plate in ANY STATE? I'll be waiting. Statutes are not law.



Ive posted many times court cites explaining the Bill of Rights...all of them reference the Bill of Rights at a state level (We the People). And federal "US citizens" hardly get any protections from the Bill of Rights because the feds have written a separate Act outlining their rights as "Civil Rights". The Bill of Rights and the Civil Rights Act of 1866 are two totally different jurisdictions...one state and one federal.
With all do respect Ares, to say what your saying is admission you don't really have a complete understanding of what it is you're talking about when it comes to this issue. And for those who have a better understanding you are just really spreading ignorance in the form of conspiracy.
Carl has really hit the nail on the head with you guys....just ignorant arm chair lawyers.

And like I told Palani the state doesn't give a shit what you classify yourself as. We are not a nation of laws. If we were Hillary Clinton would be facing an indictment right now, not running for the CEO position of a FAKE corporation with no legal authority within the organic United States.

[monty]

Your car is not privately owned. The state holds the ownership document, the MSO.

http://section520.org/mso.html

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?63282-How-do-I-quot-Unregister-a-vehicle&p=836711&viewfull=1#post836711

[Ares]

Your car is not privately owned. The state holds the ownership document, the MSO.

http://section520.org/mso.html

http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthread.php?63282-How-do-I-quot-Unregister-a-vehicle&p=836711&viewfull=1#post836711





Conspiracy garbage!!!!

/Sarcasm

[palani]

Throw everything Palani has to say in the garbage

This guy Palani must be having some effect on this user 'cause he surely mentions him a lot.

I suspect romantic intent.

[palani]

Conspiracy garbage!!!!

Actually it is a trust at the county level that is the owner but the county is just an administrative subdivision of the state.

Look .. if it were not the states' vehicle ... they couldn't tow it. In any rational system of law if you owned this thing and someone stole it from you then you would have some remedy or recourse.

Possession and title are separate issues. So too are use vs usufruct.

[7th trump]

Conspiracy garbage!!!!

/Sarcasm

Did I not say the license issue was a state issue?

Yep I sure did!!
Now before you go accusing me off bullshit. When you license your car...what citizenship do you believe are you registering it under?

So know that you have given yourself a mental roadblock and will refute anything further or research..................you're stuck on what I call the Palani plane.....you're worthless from this point on to yourself or anybody else....just yapping conspiracy.

As a note
two things you should be aware of:
1. license is a state subject matter
2. citizenship

[Ares]

Did I not say the license issue was a state issue?

Yep I sure did!!
Now before you go accusing me off bullshit. When you license your car...what citizenship do you believe are you registering it under?

As a note
two things you should be aware of:
1. license is a state subject matter
2. citizenship

Right, and I get that. BUT, and there's a big BUT here in this scenario. Say you go through the process of getting an MSO for your vehicle (i.e. you have total and complete 100% ownership of it.) and you never bothered to get a license or a license plate because you are not engaging in commerce. You will get pulled over 9 times out of 10 and cited for not having a license plate or a drivers license even though there is no state law anywhere in the nation that requires it.

Like I said, we are not a nation of laws. If we were Hillary would be indicted, and you wouldn't have officers harassing you at every step because they would actually know the law and not attempt to force arbitrary statutes on those for whom did not volunteer into it.


So know that you have given yourself a mental roadblock and will refute anything further or research..................you're stuck on what I call the Palani plane.....you're worthless from this point on to yourself or anybody else....just yapping conspiracy.

Says the gimp who can't admit to being wrong on anything... I'm going to take what you say just because you say it? HA! get real.

[midnight rambler]

Right, and I get that. BUT, and there's a big BUT here in this scenario. Say you go through the process of getting an MSO for your vehicle (i.e. you have total and complete 100% ownership of it.) and you never bothered to get a license or a license plate because you are not engaging in commerce. You will get pulled over 9 times out of 10 and cited for not having a license plate or a drivers license even though there is no state law anywhere in the nation that requires it.

Like I said, we are not a nation of laws. If we were Hillary would be indicted, and you wouldn't have officers harassing you at every step because they would actually know the law and not attempt to force arbitrary statutes on those for whom did not volunteer into it.



Says the gimp who can't admit to being wrong on anything... I'm going to take what you say just because you say it? HA! get real.

Actually I traveled around in a handful of states in my 2001 Chrysler-Damiler automobile while retaining the MSO for 10 years 115K miles and didn't get pulled over specifically for not having 'license and registration' until 10 years after purchase. Got looked at really hard by LEO so many times I lost count though (I had a really well made custom 'tag' which provided just enough info for the vast majority to conclude, "just not worth it.").

[Ares]

Actually I traveled around in a handful of states in my 2001 Chrysler-Damiler automobile while retaining the MSO for 10 years 115K miles and didn't get pulled over specifically for not having 'license and registration' until 10 years after purchase. Got looked at really hard by LEO so many times I lost count though (I had a really well made custom 'tag' which provided just enough info for the vast majority to conclude, "just not worth it.").

I live in a relatively large metropolitan area and I would most likely get pulled over going to and going home from work if I had the MSO for my vehicle and didn't get a license or license plate. I did get out of having my vehicle inspected 3 years in a row though. They issued me a waiver each year as I correctly pointed out to them that they are the true owners of the vehicle as I only have a certificate of a title. They have the MSO and is the vehicles true owner. I just benefit from the usufruct.

[7th trump]

Having an MSO doesn't stop any state from restricting the owner from licensing the vehicle. If my memory serves me correct they licensed carriages back in the day.

So maybe it's wise on your part to go back and find out where or who you heard having an MSO estops the state from requiring a license. Maybe research it yourself instead of assuming.

Basically what I'm saying here is cover your ass before assuming any assumption.

[Bigjon]

What is this crap about the Bill of Rights?

The founders did NOT want to put it in as it just confused the issue as to who was granting those rights.

The Bill of Rights are our God Granted Rights.

[7th trump]

Right, and I get that. BUT, and there's a big BUT here in this scenario. Say you go through the process of getting an MSO for your vehicle (i.e. you have total and complete 100% ownership of it.) and you never bothered to get a license or a license plate because you are not engaging in commerce. You will get pulled over 9 times out of 10 and cited for not having a license plate or a drivers license even though there is no state law anywhere in the nation that requires it.

Like I said, we are not a nation of laws. If we were Hillary would be indicted, and you wouldn't have officers harassing you at every step because they would actually know the law and not attempt to force arbitrary statutes on those for whom did not volunteer into it.



Says the gimp who can't admit to being wrong on anything... I'm going to take what you say just because you say it? HA! get real.

That's the difference between you babbling dumb shits and me.
I check and recheck the law with court cites to understand just how the law is interpreted to understand its meaning...I get my facts right before believing any fools rambling interpretation as gospel.
Try it sometime...that way you don't have to admit you were wrong!

Its not rocket science!

[7th trump]

What is this crap about the Bill of Rights?

The founders did NOT want to put it in as it just confused the issue as to who was granting those rights.

The Bill of Rights are our God Granted Rights.

Rolling my eyes as the douchebag here didn't pay any attention to what I said.

Let me put it to you this way.
One citizenship has to basically ask for permission...the other doesn't.
And the only way you can know the difference between the two are what "rights" does the government recognize you with?

You can go back to sleep now!!

[7th trump]

Actually I traveled around in a handful of states in my 2001 Chrysler-Damiler automobile while retaining the MSO for 10 years 115K miles and didn't get pulled over specifically for not having 'license and registration' until 10 years after purchase. Got looked at really hard by LEO so many times I lost count though (I had a really well made custom 'tag' which provided just enough info for the vast majority to conclude, "just not worth it.").

And the point of this story is midnight got away with driving without plates until a leo decided to pull him over.
Still was pulled over and I bet he has plates and registration now.

[Ares]

That's the difference between you babbling dumb shits and me.
I check and recheck the law with court cites to understand just how the law is interpreted to understand its meaning...I get my facts right before believing any fools rambling interpretation as gospel.
Try it sometime...that way you don't have to admit you were wrong!

Its not rocket science!

Look dipshit, you can lookup and cite all the laws you want. Neither of which matter when the government does not, and absolutely WILL not follow the law and does what it feels like doing anyway. Might equals right with such a government. You should come visit reality sometime instead of living in "7th Trumps I spew shit fantasy island".

[7th trump]

Look dipshit, you can lookup and cite all the laws you want. Neither of which matter when the government does not, and absolutely WILL not follow the law and does what it feels like doing anyway. Might equals right with such a government. You should come visit reality sometime instead of living in "7th Trumps I spew shit fantasy island".

Really?
I bet you just assume you're "We the People" when the state understands you're a US citizen.
Bet you didn't even contact the state who are the ones who will recognize your Bill of Rights....but instead deal with federal agency's who don't!

Bet your allowing your employer to deduct income taxes for the state. Bet you have a ssn in use all over the place. Bet you have a drivers license. Bet you have all this active and wonder why the state ignores your pleadings.
Your legal actions do one thing and your ignorant mouth does another..........try being honest with yourself sometime....then maybe you can get both your actions and your mouth to agree?

Betcha!

Actually I know what your problem is....you want to lie to yourself. The laziness of fairy tales Palani spreads are juicier than the hard work of the truth and therefore you're attracted to the lies. Lies are easier!

[Bigjon]

Rolling my eyes as the douchebag here didn't pay any attention to what I said.

Let me put it to you this way.
One citizenship has to basically ask for permission...the other doesn't.
And the only way you can know the difference between the two are what "rights" does the government recognize you with?

You can go back to sleep now!!

You apparently slept through the Constitution class.

http://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-articles-of-confederation/the-great-debate/


There were two sides to the Great Debate: the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists. The Federalists wanted to ratify the Constitution, the Anti-Federalists did not. One of the major issues these two parties debated concerned the inclusion of the Bill of Rights (http://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-constitution-amendments/bill-of-rights/). The Federalists felt that this addition wasn't necessary, because they believed that the Constitution as it stood only limited the government not the people. The Anti- Federalists claimed the Constitution gave the central government too much power, and without a Bill of Rights the people would be at risk of oppression.

[midnight rambler]

Having an MSO doesn't stop any state from restricting the owner from licensing the vehicle.

Again you demonstrate what an absolutely clueless Commie you truly are. There's NO WAY *any* 'private citizen' is able to 'license' any automobile WITHOUT FIRST obtaining a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE, and the ONLY way to obtain a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE is by 'delivering' (yes, that means surrendering) the ORIGINAL* Manufacturer's Certificate (aka MSO) along with an 'application for CERTIFICATE OF TITLE'. Period.


Basically what I'm saying here is cover your ass before assuming any assumption. (sic)

There you go with your fixation on bare asses and sodomy again. lol

*per TXDOT a certificated copy of the original is NOT acceptable!

[Carl]

A Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO), also known as a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO), is a specified document certifying the country of origin of the merchandise required by certain foreign countries for tariff purposes, it sometimes requires the signature of the consulate of the country to which it is destined.

A certificate of origin is employed to certify that a good being exported either from the United States into Canada or Mexico or from Canada or Mexico into the United States qualifies as an originating good for purposes of preferential tariff treatment under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

[Dogman]

Politicians of all stripes will change their viewpoints depending on which way the wind is blowing (constitutes majority) because they all do like being re elected and keep their cushy jobs and getting richer!

See many a kettle calling a pot black on this thread!

An MCO is more of a statement that the vehicle is new no prior owners nor liens , so a title of ownership can be issued for taxes and other ways they (state) can squeeze money from that title?

MCO,s are the start of a vehicle's chain of ownership of custody and liability!


Titles are everything !

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum runner

[midnight rambler]

A Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO), also known as a Manufacturer’s Statement of Origin (MSO), is a specified document certifying the country of origin of the merchandise required by certain foreign countries for tariff purposes, it sometimes requires the signature of the consulate of the country to which it is destined.

A certificate of origin is employed to certify that a good being exported either from the United States into Canada or Mexico or from Canada or Mexico into the United States qualifies as an originating good for purposes of preferential tariff treatment under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

And your point is...?? ???

[midnight rambler]

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.501.htm#501.004

Take that. lol

Which are you..."the state or a political subdivision of the state"? (yeah, it's a trick question and I doubt you can answer it lol here's a clue: 'a political subdivision of [a legal fiction*]' is a legal fiction)

*a legal fiction of course being something that in reality does not exist

[7th trump]

And your point is...?? ???

The point?................you were just called out as a conspiracy nut case by a member of this site besides me.
Or are you that low of an IQ?

[7th trump]

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.501.htm#501.004

Take that. lol

Which are you..."the state or a political subdivision of the state"? (yeah, it's a trick question and I doubt you can answer it lol here's a clue: 'a political subdivision of [a legal fiction*]' is a legal fiction)

*a legal fiction of course being something that in reality does not exist

That still doesnt support your conspiracy bullshit.

Why wouldn't a subpart of a fiction not be a fiction?
Are you confused?

[midnight rambler]

The point?................you were just called out as a conspiracy nut case by a member of this site besides me.
Or are you that low of an IQ?

Okay moron, show me with your beloved statutes where it is possible to retain the ORIGINAL Manufacturer's Certificate and still manage to get a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE issued.

[7th trump]

You apparently slept through the Constitution class.

http://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-articles-of-confederation/the-great-debate/


There were two sides to the Great Debate: the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists. The Federalists wanted to ratify the Constitution, the Anti-Federalists did not. One of the major issues these two parties debated concerned the inclusion of the Bill of Rights (http://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-constitution-amendments/bill-of-rights/). The Federalists felt that this addition wasn't necessary, because they believed that the Constitution as it stood only limited the government not the people. The Anti- Federalists claimed the Constitution gave the central government too much power, and without a Bill of Rights the people would be at risk of oppression.

I'm talking about the two(2) separate classes of citizenship's, not two different kinds of politicians.
Stay focused here moron!!
(Christ said you can walk on water if you stay focused.)
"We the People" and "US citizens". The courts have ruled many times these two are not the same and differ in which rights each has "Bill of Rights" or "Civil Rights Act of 1866"

[7th trump]

Okay moron, show me with your beloved statutes where it is possible to retain the ORIGINAL Manufacturer's Certificate and still manage to get a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE issued.

Nice loaded one sided question asshole!
Show me the statute that says you have a cock and not a puss!

What makes you think the original manufacturers Cert is for the owner?
Better yet asshole show me the statute that says you can obtain the OMC?
Surely you're so confident about getting the OMC you should have all the info in hand to refute me?...yes/ no...?

Also douche bag who told you that to own the vehicle you must have the OMC?
Remember asshole registration and licensing is a state level subject...you can own it and still made to register it and license it. What I'm saying is the states can do this to the sovereign (We the People) just like they can set up speed limits.
You dont get it do you?

[midnight rambler]

Show me the statute that says you have a cock and not a puss!

Quite the perv, aren't you? Geez, that's some fixation you have there. I suggest you seek professional help before it eats you up (the truth is you may be beyond help).


What makes you think the original manufacturers Cert is for the owner?
Better yet asshole show me the statute that says you can obtain the OMC (sic)?
Surely you're so confident about getting the OMC (sic) you should have all the info in hand to refute me?...yes/ no...?

First of all, WTF is an 'OMC'? Are you daft? (rhetorical question lol)

The Manufacturer's Certificate is up for grabs to whichever party is wise enough to claim it first.

It's this simple: go a dealership that sells new* automobiles; by whatever means establish with said dealership of new automobiles that you are *not* a resident of the state wherein said new automobile dealership is 'licensed' to sell new automobiles; pay 'cash' for the new automobile, i.e. do not finance it; viola! Manufacturer's Certificate in hand!

*the definition for 'new' automobile is one that has not been subject to a 'first sale' according to the statutes

[7th trump]

Quite the perv, aren't you? Geez, that's some fixation you have there. I suggest you seek professional help before it eats you up (the truth is you may be beyond help).



First of all, WTF is an 'OMC'? Are you daft? (rhetorical question lol)

The Manufacturer's Certificate is up for grabs to whichever party is wise enough to claim it first.

It's this simple: go a dealership that sells new* automobiles; by whatever means establish with said dealership of new automobiles that you are *not* a resident of the state wherein said new automobile dealership is 'licensed' to sell new automobiles; pay 'cash' for the new automobile, i.e. do not finance it; viola! Manufacturer's Certificate in hand!

*the definition for 'new' automobile is one that has not been subject to a 'first sale' according to the statutes

All just hearsay..
The state you reside in once pulled over will want you to register and license the vehicle. I'm sure the state you reside in will be notified also of your purchase via the dealership who will surely send appropriate paperwork your way.
Again the requirement of insurance is also a state level issue. You'll be cited for not having insurance I'm sure.


Hahaha.............you're just arguing to be arguing here and I'm sure you are using your best attempt...so far in your last post its all hearsay....made up scenario.

[midnight rambler]

All just hearsay..

Then show us the statutes, ANY statute of your beloved Communist statutes, which indicates it's possible to retain the ORIGINAL* Manufacturer's Certificate and STILL manage to have a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE issued for the very same automobile.

*when I purchased my NEW Damiler-Chrysler automobile and obtained the ORIGINAL Manufacturer's Certificate I went 'round and 'round with TXDOT about obtaining a 'license' plate; the agents at TXDOT refused to issue ANY 'license' plate without first issuing a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE (it's in the fucking statute, Texas Transportation Code Chapter 502 if you weren't so fucking lazy to actually do the research); I spoke with three different TXDOT actors, I got three responses, all three of which I have NO issue with, those three responses were (ACTUAL verbatim quotes):

1) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the negotiable instrument representing (the automobile)**"
2) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the evidence of ownership of (the automobile)"
3) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the birth certificate for(the automobile)

**they may have actually said 'motor vehicle' since that's their vernacular

I totally agree with those three definitions above, HOWEVER the TXDOT actors REFUSED to accept a certified copy of the Manufacturer's Certificate when making an application for a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE which told everything I needed to know.

[Ares]

Then show us the statutes, ANY statute of your beloved Communist statutes, which indicates it's possible to retain the ORIGINAL* Manufacturer's Certificate and STILL manage to have a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE issued for the very same automobile.

*when I purchased my NEW Damiler-Chrysler automobile and obtained the ORIGINAL Manufacturer's Certificate I went 'round and 'round with TXDOT about obtaining a 'license' plate; the agents at TXDOT refused to issue ANY 'license' plate without first issuing a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE (it's in the fucking statute, Texas Transportation Code Chapter 502 if you weren't so fucking lazy to actually do the research); I spoke with three different TXDOT actors, I got three responses, all three of which I have NO issue with, those three responses were (ACTUAL verbatim quotes):

1) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the negotiable instrument representing (the automobile)**"
2) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the evidence of ownership of (the automobile)"
3) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the birth certificate for(the automobile)

**they may have actually said 'motor vehicle' since that's their vernacular

I totally agree with those three definitions above, HOWEVER the TXDOT actors REFUSED to accept a certified copy of the Manufacturer's Certificate when making an application for a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE which told everything I needed to know.

Good luck convincing 7th Communist Trump of anything. His fantasy is his reality. We're supposed to just recognize it as such and fall in line.

He's just another R2Dindu.

[monty]

Politicians of all stripes will change their viewpoints depending on which way the wind is blowing (constitutes majority) because they all do like being re elected and keep their cushy jobs and getting richer!

See many a kettle calling a pot black on this thread!

An MCO is more of a statement that the vehicle is new no prior owners nor liens , so a title of ownership can be issued for taxes and other ways they (state) can squeeze money from that title?

MCO,s are the start of a vehicle's chain of ownership of custody and liability!


Titles are everything !

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forum runner

Yep!

And after surrendering the MSO to the DMV the State DMV Dept. of Revenue has ownership:

". . . . . . . . . . . . Prior to making application for your Certificate of Title, I must know (and have a right to know) what it is for which application is made - and what is surrendered in the process.
Thank you Mr. Munsen.

Sincerely,
Bruce G. McCarthy"

________________________________________________ January 17, 1986
Dear Mr. McCarthy:


I trust this letter will allow you to take the final step in your journey to know, "...what it isfor which application is made [a Missouri Certificate of Title] and what is surrendered [aManufacturer's Statement of Origin] in the process."


Listed below are the answers to your three questions.
1. "Who has ownership/property rights in the MSO (assuming no lienholders) prior to
obtaining a MO Certificate of Title?"


ANSWER: The motor vehicle dealership listed on the face of the MSO, if unassigned, or the last assigned owner on the reverse of the MSO.


2. "Who has ownership/property rights in the MSO AFTER obtaining a MO Certificate ofTitle?" ANSWER: The Motor Vehicle Bureau of the Missouri Department of Revenue.


3. "Does an applicant for MO Certificate of Title have the option to recover his MSO?"ANSWER: No


We look forward to receiving your application for a MO Certificate of Title. Incidentally,Mr. McCarthy, Missouri citizens are required by Section 301.190 of the Revised Statutesof Missouri to apply for a Missouri Certificate of Title within thirty days from the date of purchase of a motor vehicle or trailer.


Sincerely,
Morris D. Munsen, Jr., Manager
Motor Vehicle Bureau

MDM:lo

http://rvbeypublications.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/mccarthymanufacturer.pdf

[midnight rambler]

All just hearsay..
The state you reside in once pulled over will want you to register and license the vehicle. I'm sure the state you reside in will be notified also of your purchase via the dealership who will surely send appropriate paperwork your way.
Again the requirement of insurance is also a state level issue. You'll be cited for not having insurance I'm sure.


Hahaha.............you're just arguing to be arguing here and I'm sure you are using your best attempt...so far in your last post its all hearsay....made up scenario.

You need to get out of your mom's basement sometime and experience the real world. lol

[monty]

If you are curious what an MSO looks like:

https://s19.postimg.org/i3iw1jlk3/image.png https://s19.postimg.org/6fou6zwf7/image.png

[7th trump]

Then show us the statutes, ANY statute of your beloved Communist statutes, which indicates it's possible to retain the ORIGINAL* Manufacturer's Certificate and STILL manage to have a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE issued for the very same automobile.

*when I purchased my NEW Damiler-Chrysler automobile and obtained the ORIGINAL Manufacturer's Certificate I went 'round and 'round with TXDOT about obtaining a 'license' plate; the agents at TXDOT refused to issue ANY 'license' plate without first issuing a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE (it's in the fucking statute, Texas Transportation Code Chapter 502 if you weren't so fucking lazy to actually do the research); I spoke with three different TXDOT actors, I got three responses, all three of which I have NO issue with, those three responses were (ACTUAL verbatim quotes):

1) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the negotiable instrument representing (the automobile)**"
2) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the evidence of ownership of (the automobile)"
3) "the Manufacturer's Certificate is the birth certificate for(the automobile)

**they may have actually said 'motor vehicle' since that's their vernacular

I totally agree with those three definitions above, HOWEVER the TXDOT actors REFUSED to accept a certified copy of the Manufacturer's Certificate when making an application for a CERTIFICATE OF TITLE which told everything I needed to know.

Lol....do you think getting pulled over for a traffic violation that the leo will accept a copy of your license or the real license?
Same thing....do you think the DoT is going to accept a copy of the OMC?
How do they know its real and you arent making one up for a car already owned by someone else?

You arent intelligent enough to be a half-wit really.
I recently bought a Ford Focus and it sat in my driveway for two months before i decided to register it in my name. The lady chewed my ass out because she said its going around that some people sell a car and try to get it back by fraudulent means. She explained to me after they sell it they apply for a copy of title before you get ownership and legally they still own the car and you lose your money.
So being the intelligent person that I am I would have to say the DoT wants the original OMC for fraudulent and legal reasons.
I'd tell you to get lost too if you tried to give me a copy.

Feel stupid?
You should because you are!

[7th trump]

You need to get out of your mom's basement sometime and experience the real world. lol

Hahaha...wake up fool. You're dreaming you're awake when you're not!

[7th trump]

Yep!

And after surrendering the MSO to the DMV the State DMV Dept. of Revenue has ownership:

". . . . . . . . . . . . Prior to making application for your Certificate of Title, I must know (and have a right to know) what it is for which application is made - and what is surrendered in the process.
Thank you Mr. Munsen.

Sincerely,
Bruce G. McCarthy"

________________________________________________ January 17, 1986
Dear Mr. McCarthy:


I trust this letter will allow you to take the final step in your journey to know, "...what it isfor which application is made [a Missouri Certificate of Title] and what is surrendered [aManufacturer's Statement of Origin] in the process."


Listed below are the answers to your three questions.
1. "Who has ownership/property rights in the MSO (assuming no lienholders) prior to
obtaining a MO Certificate of Title?"


ANSWER: The motor vehicle dealership listed on the face of the MSO, if unassigned, or the last assigned owner on the reverse of the MSO.


2. "Who has ownership/property rights in the MSO AFTER obtaining a MO Certificate ofTitle?" ANSWER: The Motor Vehicle Bureau of the Missouri Department of Revenue.


3. "Does an applicant for MO Certificate of Title have the option to recover his MSO?"ANSWER: No


We look forward to receiving your application for a MO Certificate of Title. Incidentally,Mr. McCarthy, Missouri citizens are required by Section 301.190 of the Revised Statutesof Missouri to apply for a Missouri Certificate of Title within thirty days from the date of purchase of a motor vehicle or trailer.


Sincerely,
Morris D. Munsen, Jr., Manager
Motor Vehicle Bureau

MDM:lo

http://rvbeypublications.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/mccarthymanufacturer.pdf

I've seen these before and they turn out fraudulent. Unless you have a statute or court cite....its just hearsay.

[midnight rambler]

If you are curious what an MSO looks like:

https://s19.postimg.org/i3iw1jlk3/image.png https://s19.postimg.org/6fou6zwf7/image.png

That's the genuine article, and it's not produced UNTIL an automobile rolls out of the assembly plant in a road-ready condition, in fact the very day that an automobile rolls out the assembly plant is the date on the Manufacturer's Certificate and not one day sooner or later (which indeed makes the MSO 'the birth certificate' for the automobile).

[midnight rambler]

All just hearsay..
The state you reside in once pulled over will want you to register and license the vehicle. I'm sure the state you reside in will be notified also of your purchase via the dealership who will surely send appropriate paperwork your way.
Again the requirement of insurance is also a state level issue. You'll be cited for not having insurance I'm sure.


Hahaha.............you're just arguing to be arguing here and I'm sure you are using your best attempt...so far in your last post its all hearsay....made up scenario.

Anyone needing evidence from the source itself that the dung beetle is a dyed-in-the-wool statist/Communist, look no further. lol

[palani]

Unless you have a statute or court cite....its just hearsay.
You rely upon defective sources and defective ideas and use defective logic to form defective conclusions that have nothing to do with reality. Your observations and thought processes are defective.

In short you are a malfunctioning entity without the resources to amend yourself.

Too bad. So sad.

[7th trump]

You rely upon defective sources and defective ideas and use defective logic to form defective conclusions that have nothing to do with reality. Your observations and thought processes are defective.

In short you are a malfunctioning entity without the resources to amend yourself.

Too bad. So sad.

All this from a guy who introduces conspiracy theories and when asked about them doesn't ever answer one (1) question.
The same guy who injects antiquated foreign law to interpret current US law.
The same guy who admits he never researches the law (code, statutes, ect) when discussing his theories and conspiracies.


The same guy who is accusing another of relying on defective sources (the current US law), accuses of having ideas when I recite actual court cites and statutes. Says I use no logic when I use court cites and law to come up with conclusions the law (reality). He apparently doesn't see I use the courts to help interpret the statutes and law.

Hmmmm....makes you wonder about this guy doesn't it?

[7th trump]

Anyone needing evidence from the source itself that the dung beetle is a dyed-in-the-wool statist/Communist, look no further. lol

Don't like the idea of me not being as cynical as you huh.
Say all you want douche but you haven't said anything to date that doesn't fall outside the boundaries of "HEARSAY" or within logical.

They want the original paper work, not copies, to thwart any possibility of fraud.
Too bad your gullible and stupid commy boy!

Tell you what asshole ...I know three car salesmen at a bar a frequent...I'll ask them what the deal is behind the MOC and wh7y they need the original and not a copy!
Any bets its for fraud?

[palani]

http://i65.tinypic.com/34gufcz.jpg

[steyr_m]

In fact civil war IS the health of the state going forward, it is only through disruption that they can create control.

Guess that depends on who wins...

[Ares]

You guys still arguing with R2Dindu?

[7th trump]

You guys still arguing with R2Dindu?

Yeah ...it takes all of them to get together and gang up.......they haven't won yet.

[midnight rambler]

I know three car salesmen at a bar a frequent (sic)


So you're gonna ask three guys in a bar who's greatest ambition in life is to be car salesmen what's the deal with MSOs?? I bet they ask you "what's a MSO?"* lol

It becomes more and more clear you're a functioning moron.

*I actually had a new car salesman ask me that one day - I told him to go ask his sales mgr, that he would tell him

[Neuro]

http://i65.tinypic.com/34gufcz.jpg

LMAO! Pure brilliance!

[monty]

Read this carefully. Perhaps will then understand why you don't own your car, or for that matter your land.

Currency
We have reprinted a short letter here from an attorney. Please read it carefully. You may have trouble believing the next several pages if you do not:


RICHARD L. STADLEY
Attorney at Law
Walnut Grove, Mississippi 39189
August 27, 1980


Mr. F. Tupper Saussy
C/O Spencer Judd, Publishers
Box 143
Sewanee, Tennessee 37375


Dear Mr. Saussy:

In response to your question "Is Article 1, §10 of the United States Constitution, particularly the words 'No State shall...make any thing but gold and silver coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...', still binding on a State?", the only lawful answer is Yes.

Meant to "crush paper money" by unanimous consent of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, this Section prohibits the States from imposing upon the people a paper currency, paper money or anything else other than gold and silver coin as a medium of exchange in the discharge of debts. Since the Constitution can be changed by amendment only, and since no amendment has changed this Section, no federal action can excuse a State of this prohibition.


The effect of this Section is thus:
If a paper dollar is delivered to, or received from a state authorized party without particular objection to its being an unlawful tender under Article 1, §10, no Constitutional question has arisen and the payor/payee, in remaining silent, has renounced his individual rights flowing from the Constitutional prohibition.

Those rights are the following:


Discharge of the debt in gold or silver coin, if provided for in the debt;
Dismissal or forgiveness of the debt altogether, if the debt is not denominated in gold or silver coin, since any rule or judgment repugnant to the Constitution is void, invalid, and without effect.


As with other rights, the right to gold and silver coin, and the right to be forgiven of any debt not denominated in same, are considered waived unless properly and timely asserted.


Sincerely yours,
Richard L. Stadley
Attorney at Law

Let's talk about currency, not money — currency. Despite what you may have heard to the contrary, currency is not money. The Constitution clearly states "shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts" (Article I, Section 10, never rescinded, nor superseded). So unless you are paying off your debts in gold or silver, you are violating the Constitution. Of course, you really don't have much choice in the matter because of the system our government has forced upon us. However, because you limit your liability by extinguishing your debts with fictional funds, you incur an assumed liability to follow all legislated regulations. Legislated regulations are another word for statutes, which are not law. Legislated (Article I) administrative law has completely replaced judicial (Article III) jurisdiction. And this is true not only in the federal enclaves but in the several states as well.


More and more people are being punished and imprisoned by statutes and regulations, not laws. This is done primarily to People who are disgusted with the monetary system, and the new prisons are for such People, not for murder and rape crimes.


Howard Freeman has discovered that ARTICLE 1 COURTS (Legislative Tribunals) have jurisdiction over us because we unknowingly enter into a contract any time we use Federal Reserve Notes to "discharge a debt." Paper currency has no real value since it is created by the FED from nothing. When we use Federal Reserve Notes to buy goods or services, we are afforded "limited liability" against suit for equal value in terms of gold or silver. For this consideration of "limited liability," the performance is our acceptance of all Article 1 administrative statues and laws, under the "exclusive jurisdiction" of Congress. There are a great number of other contracts involved as well.


I want to point out to everyone right now that the above information pertains to you only if you are in the system and are a Fourteenth Amendment citizen of the federal government. This information does not pertain to me because I am a Sovereign State Citizen with no contracts between me and any form of government. You will understand this a lot better after you finish with Strategic Withdrawal. And yes, I use Federal Reserve Notes, but only under duress and against my wishes.

The Constitution and Currency
How long has it been since you have read the Constitution? Do you pay taxes on your property? Do you understand why you do? Have you read the Constitution lately, particularly where it says that debts must be paid in gold and silver? When you bought your land, farm, ranch, place of business or house, did you quiet your title with gold or silver money? If you failed to do so, there is a cloud upon the title to your property, which prevents you from taking full and complete title, i. e., a Quiet Title, to your property! Congress passed acts, on April 24, 1820, and again on May 20, 1862, as well as at other times in our history, which guarantee Americans Allodial Title to their real property.


Allodial Title means that you are not subject to real estate taxes nor any other fees the government may dream up. No one can touch your property! No one! Not the IRS or the EPA or the FBI or anyone! But you can not have Allodial Title to any property, which was not paid for constitutionally by a Sovereign Citizen! In other words, you could not be a Fourteenth Amendment citizen of the federal government and you would have had to purchase the property with gold or silver money. This was one of the primary reasons why Roosevelt took the gold coins and gold-backed currency away from the People of this nation: In order to allow government ownership (the government holds title to all property on which it levies taxes. That is why you only have a certificate of title or a Fee Simple title, not the real title for your property or for your car) and taxation of all property. This works just like it says in the Communist Manifesto. In the place of Constitutional money, we are left with no choice but to use Federal Reserve currency (Author's note: This is called colorable money, as in color of law) which can not give us, according to the Constitution, clear title to anything purchased with it. (Note; There is a process through which you can update the land patent to your land so that you can have complete title, without government interference, and without using gold or silver.)

Do You Know Who Owns Your Car?
I know that many of you are not going to believe much of what I am saying without a lot of reflection and thought. I had the same problem when I finally realized what "disappearing money" really meant! While you are thinking about what has been written here, give the following story some serious consideration. This came from America Today, PO Box 188, Houston, Missouri 65483:


Tennessee Department of Revenue Operations Supervisor Denise Rottero told Judge Greer how Tennessee's auto registration process works.
The process begins with the "surrender" of the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) by the auto dealer to the Department of Revenue in exchange for a Certificate of Title.
Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes."

"Are you telling me that ownership of an automobile must be surrendered to the State before it can be registered?" she was asked.
"Surrender title, yes," Rottero said.

The certificate of title to your automobile is not title, it's merely evidence that title exists. Your car's legal TITLE is the MSO, which the dealer surrendered to the State. Ms. Rottero said the MSO is put on microfilm for permanent keeping, the original is destroyed.

After the trial, spectators expressed shock that their personal automobiles were actually owned by the state. "No wonder state law officers stop people for no reason!" said a housewife. "If your car's got a Tennessee plate, it's theirs, and they can do anything they like to you!" That's the law, but it's voluntary. No one but Judge Greer had dared say that if you don't surrender your car to the state in exchange for plates, you go to jail!

Yes, many of the spectators were shocked at the testimony offered, but how many of them understood that one of the reasons why the state takes the title to your car because you never "paid" for the car? How many of them understood that this occurs because the private owners of the Federal Reserve, through bribery and corruption of "our" government, removed our ability to "pay" for ANYTHING when they stole our system of money? How many of them understood that, because they don't have clear title to ANYTHING, the federal government was able to pledge ALL assets, including the RESIDENTS, of America to the money kings for collateral against our un-payable, non-existent national debt?

YOU CAN NEVER OWN ANYTHING UNLESS YOU PAY FOR IT, AND YOU CAN NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING UNLESS YOU USE MONEY!

(Note; Again, there is a method whereby you can side-step the fraud committed in Washington, D.C., and Quiet the title to your car, thus removing your travel out of the jurisdiction of the government. See the book Strategic Withdrawal.)

This includes everything purchased with Federal Reserve Notes, right down to the shirt on your back. You own nothing, because you never paid for anything! All you have ever done with Federal Reserve Notes is limit your liability, through a contract entered into with the person accepting the Federal Reserve Notes, which says that the person who accepts Federal Reserve Notes will not demand actual payment for those items you have purchased from them. You have acquired no actual title or true interest in the items purchased, and you use those items under a cloud of ownership. This is a simple concept to grasp. When you use debt (colorable money) in order to pay a debt, it is obvious that the original debt cannot disappear! Anything purchased in this manner can never be owned by you. This means that anything you purchase with debt can be taken away from you at the whim of any agent or agency of the government which desires to do so. Read the Constitution. It will answer most of the questions, once you understand which questions to ask, about where our Rights have gone.


http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/gould/part06.htm

[7th trump]

LMAO! Pure brilliance!

You're the only one who's replied to any of his posts in days...Palani is mainly ignored for his whackoo theories. He detrimental to himself because he never answers any question that arises from his whackoo theories.

And look whos the only dip to respond..."neuro"...bahahahahahahaha!

[7th trump]

Read this carefully. Perhaps will then understand why you don't own your car, or for that matter your land.

Currency
We have reprinted a short letter here from an attorney. Please read it carefully. You may have trouble believing the next several pages if you do not:


RICHARD L. STADLEY
Attorney at Law
Walnut Grove, Mississippi 39189
August 27, 1980


Mr. F. Tupper Saussy
C/O Spencer Judd, Publishers
Box 143
Sewanee, Tennessee 37375


Dear Mr. Saussy:

In response to your question "Is Article 1, §10 of the United States Constitution, particularly the words 'No State shall...make any thing but gold and silver coin a Tender in Payment of Debts...', still binding on a State?", the only lawful answer is Yes.

Meant to "crush paper money" by unanimous consent of the Constitutional Convention of 1787, this Section prohibits the States from imposing upon the people a paper currency, paper money or anything else other than gold and silver coin as a medium of exchange in the discharge of debts. Since the Constitution can be changed by amendment only, and since no amendment has changed this Section, no federal action can excuse a State of this prohibition.


The effect of this Section is thus:
If a paper dollar is delivered to, or received from a state authorized party without particular objection to its being an unlawful tender under Article 1, §10, no Constitutional question has arisen and the payor/payee, in remaining silent, has renounced his individual rights flowing from the Constitutional prohibition.

Those rights are the following:


Discharge of the debt in gold or silver coin, if provided for in the debt;
Dismissal or forgiveness of the debt altogether, if the debt is not denominated in gold or silver coin, since any rule or judgment repugnant to the Constitution is void, invalid, and without effect.


As with other rights, the right to gold and silver coin, and the right to be forgiven of any debt not denominated in same, are considered waived unless properly and timely asserted.


Sincerely yours,
Richard L. Stadley
Attorney at Law

Let's talk about currency, not money — currency. Despite what you may have heard to the contrary, currency is not money. The Constitution clearly states "shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts" (Article I, Section 10, never rescinded, nor superseded). So unless you are paying off your debts in gold or silver, you are violating the Constitution. Of course, you really don't have much choice in the matter because of the system our government has forced upon us. However, because you limit your liability by extinguishing your debts with fictional funds, you incur an assumed liability to follow all legislated regulations. Legislated regulations are another word for statutes, which are not law. Legislated (Article I) administrative law has completely replaced judicial (Article III) jurisdiction. And this is true not only in the federal enclaves but in the several states as well.


More and more people are being punished and imprisoned by statutes and regulations, not laws. This is done primarily to People who are disgusted with the monetary system, and the new prisons are for such People, not for murder and rape crimes.


Howard Freeman has discovered that ARTICLE 1 COURTS (Legislative Tribunals) have jurisdiction over us because we unknowingly enter into a contract any time we use Federal Reserve Notes to "discharge a debt." Paper currency has no real value since it is created by the FED from nothing. When we use Federal Reserve Notes to buy goods or services, we are afforded "limited liability" against suit for equal value in terms of gold or silver. For this consideration of "limited liability," the performance is our acceptance of all Article 1 administrative statues and laws, under the "exclusive jurisdiction" of Congress. There are a great number of other contracts involved as well.


I want to point out to everyone right now that the above information pertains to you only if you are in the system and are a Fourteenth Amendment citizen of the federal government. This information does not pertain to me because I am a Sovereign State Citizen with no contracts between me and any form of government. You will understand this a lot better after you finish with Strategic Withdrawal. And yes, I use Federal Reserve Notes, but only under duress and against my wishes.

The Constitution and Currency
How long has it been since you have read the Constitution? Do you pay taxes on your property? Do you understand why you do? Have you read the Constitution lately, particularly where it says that debts must be paid in gold and silver? When you bought your land, farm, ranch, place of business or house, did you quiet your title with gold or silver money? If you failed to do so, there is a cloud upon the title to your property, which prevents you from taking full and complete title, i. e., a Quiet Title, to your property! Congress passed acts, on April 24, 1820, and again on May 20, 1862, as well as at other times in our history, which guarantee Americans Allodial Title to their real property.


Allodial Title means that you are not subject to real estate taxes nor any other fees the government may dream up. No one can touch your property! No one! Not the IRS or the EPA or the FBI or anyone! But you can not have Allodial Title to any property, which was not paid for constitutionally by a Sovereign Citizen! In other words, you could not be a Fourteenth Amendment citizen of the federal government and you would have had to purchase the property with gold or silver money. This was one of the primary reasons why Roosevelt took the gold coins and gold-backed currency away from the People of this nation: In order to allow government ownership (the government holds title to all property on which it levies taxes. That is why you only have a certificate of title or a Fee Simple title, not the real title for your property or for your car) and taxation of all property. This works just like it says in the Communist Manifesto. In the place of Constitutional money, we are left with no choice but to use Federal Reserve currency (Author's note: This is called colorable money, as in color of law) which can not give us, according to the Constitution, clear title to anything purchased with it. (Note; There is a process through which you can update the land patent to your land so that you can have complete title, without government interference, and without using gold or silver.)

Do You Know Who Owns Your Car?
I know that many of you are not going to believe much of what I am saying without a lot of reflection and thought. I had the same problem when I finally realized what "disappearing money" really meant! While you are thinking about what has been written here, give the following story some serious consideration. This came from America Today, PO Box 188, Houston, Missouri 65483:


Tennessee Department of Revenue Operations Supervisor Denise Rottero told Judge Greer how Tennessee's auto registration process works.
The process begins with the "surrender" of the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) by the auto dealer to the Department of Revenue in exchange for a Certificate of Title.
Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes."

"Are you telling me that ownership of an automobile must be surrendered to the State before it can be registered?" she was asked.
"Surrender title, yes," Rottero said.

The certificate of title to your automobile is not title, it's merely evidence that title exists. Your car's legal TITLE is the MSO, which the dealer surrendered to the State. Ms. Rottero said the MSO is put on microfilm for permanent keeping, the original is destroyed.

After the trial, spectators expressed shock that their personal automobiles were actually owned by the state. "No wonder state law officers stop people for no reason!" said a housewife. "If your car's got a Tennessee plate, it's theirs, and they can do anything they like to you!" That's the law, but it's voluntary. No one but Judge Greer had dared say that if you don't surrender your car to the state in exchange for plates, you go to jail!

Yes, many of the spectators were shocked at the testimony offered, but how many of them understood that one of the reasons why the state takes the title to your car because you never "paid" for the car? How many of them understood that this occurs because the private owners of the Federal Reserve, through bribery and corruption of "our" government, removed our ability to "pay" for ANYTHING when they stole our system of money? How many of them understood that, because they don't have clear title to ANYTHING, the federal government was able to pledge ALL assets, including the RESIDENTS, of America to the money kings for collateral against our un-payable, non-existent national debt?

YOU CAN NEVER OWN ANYTHING UNLESS YOU PAY FOR IT, AND YOU CAN NOT PAY FOR ANYTHING UNLESS YOU USE MONEY!

(Note; Again, there is a method whereby you can side-step the fraud committed in Washington, D.C., and Quiet the title to your car, thus removing your travel out of the jurisdiction of the government. See the book Strategic Withdrawal.)

This includes everything purchased with Federal Reserve Notes, right down to the shirt on your back. You own nothing, because you never paid for anything! All you have ever done with Federal Reserve Notes is limit your liability, through a contract entered into with the person accepting the Federal Reserve Notes, which says that the person who accepts Federal Reserve Notes will not demand actual payment for those items you have purchased from them. You have acquired no actual title or true interest in the items purchased, and you use those items under a cloud of ownership. This is a simple concept to grasp. When you use debt (colorable money) in order to pay a debt, it is obvious that the original debt cannot disappear! Anything purchased in this manner can never be owned by you. This means that anything you purchase with debt can be taken away from you at the whim of any agent or agency of the government which desires to do so. Read the Constitution. It will answer most of the questions, once you understand which questions to ask, about where our Rights have gone.


http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/gould/part06.htm

I cant really believe you posted that piece of garbage Monty.
First thing that flew up huge red flags was in the third paragraph......

The effect of this Section is thus:
If a paper dollar is delivered to, or received from a state authorized party without particular objection to its being an unlawful tender under Article 1, §10, no Constitutional question has arisen and the payor/payee, in remaining silent, has renounced his individual rights flowing from the Constitutional prohibition.

Crock of bullshit right there.
1. Paying off a debt using silver and gold is not an individual right. Furthermore Article 1 section 10 pertains to "State" debts, not the individual Peoples debts.
2. The US government suspended the gold standard and ended silver I believe in 1971. The government cannot take away your rights (as this moron believes) if you CANT use silver and gold money the government suspended and/or ended.

I could go on down the letter and pick apart this bullshit piece of propaganda conspiracy further.
Shall I go further Monty?

I suppose we will see the half-wits chime in now defending this cherished lie they base their conspiracy on.
They have to defend it because if they dont they look like the fools they are....but then they will look like fools they are if they do.

[palani]

You're the only one who's replied to any of his posts in days

This, of course, is another example of your logic (which I have previously proven many times to be faulty).

When there is no response then there can be no disagreement. A response of any sort is a rebuttal.

I suggest you obtain a volume of THE TRIVIUM. But I am afraid the depth might scare you. Perhaps for you it would be better to draw the drapes and pretend the real world has no existence?

[midnight rambler]

You guys still arguing with R2Dindu?

I'm guessing you don't get it...we're his only friends. Sad, huh?

[palani]

Paying off a debt using silver and gold is not an individual right

Absolutely right. There are no individual rights involved in the constitution. Making tender (offer) of gold or silver is a constitutional OBLIGATION of those who call themselves the several States or those who choose to identify themselves as citizens of said several States.

While you are right I expect you arrived at this observation using faulty logic. But in earlier times it was stated that even a blind horse has to find water at times. I suppose that is why cat skeletons don't decorate trees either (Law of Necessity).

[monty]

Article 1 Section 8
. . . . . . . .coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Our money is the silver dollar set by Congress:

An act establishing a mint, and regulating the Coins of the United States [Coinage Act of 1792] was passed by the United States Congress on April 2, 1792 and established the United States Mint. The Coinage Act of 1792 established the silver dollar as the unit of money in the United States, declared it to be lawful tender, and created a decimal system for U.S. currency. The act situated he Mint was in the seat of government of the United States, Philadelphia. The five original officers of the U.S. Mint were a Director, an Assayer, a Chief Coiner, an Engraver, and a Treasurer. The Act reads as Follows:
. . . . .DOLLARS OR UNITS -- each to be of the value of a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver. . . . .

Federal Reserve Act of 1913 Section 16
Federal Reserve Notes SHALL be redeemed in GOLD or LAWFUL MONEY. . . .

SEC. 16. Fedral reserve notes,to be issued at the discretion of the Federal Reserve Board for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized . The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in gold on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or in gold or lawfulmoney at any Federal reserve bank.





Amended after the consfication of the Peoples gold to remove the word GOLD leaving only LAWFUL MONEY . . . . . .

The last of the Lawful Money, the silver dollar as you noted was prior to 1971.


You can never OWN anything if you cannot pay for it. You need money to pay for it. Our Constitution and the coinage act defined our money. Federal Reserve Notes are not MONEY, they are debt instrument, obligations of the United States.

[7th trump]

Article 1 Section 8
. . . . . . . .coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Our money is the silver dollar set by Congress:

An act establishing a mint, and regulating the Coins of the United States [Coinage Act of 1792] was passed by the United States Congress on April 2, 1792 and established the United States Mint. The Coinage Act of 1792 established the silver dollar as the unit of money in the United States, declared it to be lawful tender, and created a decimal system for U.S. currency. The act situated he Mint was in the seat of government of the United States, Philadelphia. The five original officers of the U.S. Mint were a Director, an Assayer, a Chief Coiner, an Engraver, and a Treasurer. The Act reads as Follows:
. . . . .DOLLARS OR UNITS -- each to be of the value of a Spanish milled dollar as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenth parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver. . . . .

Federal Reserve Act of 1913 Section 16
Federal Reserve Notes SHALL be redeemed in GOLD or LAWFUL MONEY. . . .

SEC. 16. Fedral reserve notes,to be issued at the discretion of the Federal Reserve Board for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are hereby authorized . The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in gold on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or in gold or lawfulmoney at any Federal reserve bank.





Amended after the consfication of the Peoples gold to remove the word GOLD leaving only LAWFUL MONEY . . . . . .

The last of the Lawful Money, the silver dollar as you noted was prior to 1971.


You can never OWN anything if you cannot pay for it. You need money to pay for it. Our Constitution and the coinage act defined our money. Federal Reserve Notes are not MONEY, they are debt instrument, obligations of the United States.



Not buying into this premise.
The Constitution (Article 1, section 10) only says the "State" can accept gold and silver coins for payment of debt. Anything else construed from Article 1, Section 10 is pure horse manure biscuits. Article 1, Section 10 does not apply to individual human beings.
Also you are forgetting that there were many different foreign gold and silver coins (Spanish, French, English) floating around the various US territories that weren't yet Union States at the time of the writing of the Constitution. All these foreign coins were accepted as money through out the 13 colonies. The US even adopted the Spanish definition of a dollar since many other countries did also as a standard.

And did you notice what else is in Article 1, Section 10?
("To regulate the value thereof".....said US coins)...hmmm...that blows the bottom right out of your boat now doesn't it. To regulate the value thereof...seems to me they have the power to take the value of the dollar up or take it down.

[monty]

Yes, the Constitution does give Congress the power to set the value thereof. Look and see what has happened since 1965 to silver coins in these charts.

I suspect coins minted by the United States are Lawful Money even though they have been debased.

However, the State DMV takes possession of YOUR MSO, which is title so they can tax you for using "their" motor vehicle YOU paid for.


This table does not reflect U.S. Mint production costs, but the pure base metal value that composes the coin. Calculations are based on coin weight, metal composition, and base metal prices. The "Metal % of Denomination" column represents the percentage of metal that comprises the denomination's purchasing power. A coin that is over 100% in this category has more base metal value than purchasing power.

Table based on July 12, 2016 base metal prices:


Copper $2.2188/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.0661
Zinc $0.9936/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.0225
Nickel $4.7332/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.1814











Description
Denomination
Metal Value
Metal % of Denomination



1909-1982 Cent (95% copper) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html) *
$0.01

$0.0147926 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html#meltvalue)
147.92%




1946-2014 Nickel (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-2007-Jefferson-Nickel-Value.html)
$0.05

$0.0313868 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-2007-Jefferson-Nickel-Value.html#meltvalue)
62.77%




1982-2014 Cent (97.5% zinc) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html) *
$0.01

$0.0056448 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html#meltvalue)
56.44%



http://www.coinflation.com/dime.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
1965-2014 Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$0.0121404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%



http://www.coinflation.com/quarter2.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
1965-2014 Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$0.0303524 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1971-2014 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-2007-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$0.0607055 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-2007-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1971-1978 Eisenhower (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1978-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.1214123 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1978-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1979-1981, 1999 SBA Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1979-1981-1999-Susan-B-Anthony-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0433608 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1979-1981-1999-Susan-B-Anthony-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
4.33%




2000-2014 Sacagawea Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2000-2007-Sacagawea-Golden-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0383885 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2000-2007-Sacagawea-Golden-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
3.83%




2007-2014 Presidential Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2007-Presidential-Golden-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0383885 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2007-Presidential-Golden-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
3.83%




* The U.S. Mint issued both compositions in 1982; they can be differentiated by weight (3.11 g copper, 2.5 g zinc). The 1943 steel cent is not included in the table above. Also, a tin alloy is used in one cent pieces from 1864 until 1962, but that value isn't significant enough to calculate.

http://www.coinflation.com/us_coin_calculator.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/basemetal_coin_calculator.html)















United States Circulated Silver Coinage Intrinsic Value TableThese coins were in standard circulation until silver was removed from all coinage in 1965 and 1970 (40% silver half-dollars). I recognize that the silver Eisenhower dollar was issued as a collectible only, but I'm still categorizing it with this group. This table illustrates how far the metal value has progressed compared to the denomination's purchasing power after the debasement.

*** Check out our easy-to-print guide (http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html) on silver coin values including Canadian silver coins.

Table based on July 12, 2016 live precious metal prices:
Silver $20.13/oz http://www.coinflation.com/down.gif -0.02













Description
Denomination
Silver Value
Silver % of Denomination



1942-1945 Nickel (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1942-1945-Silver-War-Nickel-Value.html) **
$0.05

$1.1325 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1942-1945-Silver-War-Nickel-Value.html#meltvalue)
2265.18%




1916-1945 Mercury Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1945-Silver-Mercury-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$1.4561 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1945-Silver-Mercury-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1946-1964 Roosevelt Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$1.4561 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1916-1930 Standing Liberty Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1930-Silver-Standing-Liberty-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$3.6404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1930-Silver-Standing-Liberty-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1932-1964 Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$3.6404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%



http://www.coinflation.com/walkingliberty_small.jpg (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
1916-1947 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1948-1963 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1948-1963-Silver-Franklin-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1948-1963-Silver-Franklin-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1964 Kennedy Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1964-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1964-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1965-1970 Half Dollar (40% silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-1970-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$2.9770 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-1970-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
595.41%



http://www.coinflation.com/morgandollar_small.jpg (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html)
1878-1921 Morgan Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$15.5695 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1556.95%




1921-1935 Peace Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1921-1935-Silver-Peace-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$15.5695 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1921-1935-Silver-Peace-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1556.95%




1971-1976 Eisenhower Dollar (40% silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1974-1976-Silver-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html) **
$1.00

$6.3658 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1974-1976-Silver-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
636.58%




1986-2013 Silver Eagle (.999 Silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver-eagle-value.html)
$1.00

$20.1098 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver-eagle-value.html#meltvalue)
2010.94%




** The U.S. Mint issued two compositions of the nickel in 1942. The standard copper-nickel composition used today and the 35% silver composition listed here. Also, 40% silver Eisenhower dollars were issued as collectibles only, they are generally not found in circulation.

http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_calculator.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html)

[7th trump]

Yes, the Constitution does give Congress the power to set the value thereof. Look and see what has happened since 1965 to silver coins in these charts.

I suspect coins minted by the United States are Lawful Money even though they have been debased.

However, the State DMV takes possession of YOUR MSO, which is title so they can tax you for using "their" motor vehicle YOU paid for.


This table does not reflect U.S. Mint production costs, but the pure base metal value that composes the coin. Calculations are based on coin weight, metal composition, and base metal prices. The "Metal % of Denomination" column represents the percentage of metal that comprises the denomination's purchasing power. A coin that is over 100% in this category has more base metal value than purchasing power.

Table based on July 12, 2016 base metal prices:


Copper $2.2188/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.0661
Zinc $0.9936/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.0225
Nickel $4.7332/lb http://www.coinflation.com/up.gif 0.1814











Description
Denomination
Metal Value
Metal % of Denomination



1909-1982 Cent (95% copper) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html) *
$0.01

$0.0147926 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1909-1982-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html#meltvalue)
147.92%




1946-2014 Nickel (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-2007-Jefferson-Nickel-Value.html)
$0.05

$0.0313868 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-2007-Jefferson-Nickel-Value.html#meltvalue)
62.77%




1982-2014 Cent (97.5% zinc) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html) *
$0.01

$0.0056448 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1982-2007-Lincoln-Cent-Penny-Value.html#meltvalue)
56.44%



http://www.coinflation.com/dime.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
1965-2014 Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$0.0121404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%



http://www.coinflation.com/quarter2.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
1965-2014 Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$0.0303524 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-2007-Washington-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1971-2014 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-2007-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$0.0607055 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-2007-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1971-1978 Eisenhower (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1978-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.1214123 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1978-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
12.14%




1979-1981, 1999 SBA Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1979-1981-1999-Susan-B-Anthony-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0433608 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1979-1981-1999-Susan-B-Anthony-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
4.33%




2000-2014 Sacagawea Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2000-2007-Sacagawea-Golden-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0383885 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2000-2007-Sacagawea-Golden-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
3.83%




2007-2014 Presidential Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2007-Presidential-Golden-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$0.0383885 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/2007-Presidential-Golden-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
3.83%




* The U.S. Mint issued both compositions in 1982; they can be differentiated by weight (3.11 g copper, 2.5 g zinc). The 1943 steel cent is not included in the table above. Also, a tin alloy is used in one cent pieces from 1864 until 1962, but that value isn't significant enough to calculate.

http://www.coinflation.com/us_coin_calculator.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/basemetal_coin_calculator.html)















United States Circulated Silver Coinage Intrinsic Value TableThese coins were in standard circulation until silver was removed from all coinage in 1965 and 1970 (40% silver half-dollars). I recognize that the silver Eisenhower dollar was issued as a collectible only, but I'm still categorizing it with this group. This table illustrates how far the metal value has progressed compared to the denomination's purchasing power after the debasement.

*** Check out our easy-to-print guide (http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_values.html) on silver coin values including Canadian silver coins.

Table based on July 12, 2016 live precious metal prices:
Silver $20.13/oz http://www.coinflation.com/down.gif -0.02













Description
Denomination
Silver Value
Silver % of Denomination



1942-1945 Nickel (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1942-1945-Silver-War-Nickel-Value.html) **
$0.05

$1.1325 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1942-1945-Silver-War-Nickel-Value.html#meltvalue)
2265.18%




1916-1945 Mercury Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1945-Silver-Mercury-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$1.4561 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1945-Silver-Mercury-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1946-1964 Roosevelt Dime (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html)
$0.10

$1.4561 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1916-1930 Standing Liberty Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1930-Silver-Standing-Liberty-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$3.6404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1930-Silver-Standing-Liberty-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1932-1964 Quarter (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html)
$0.25

$3.6404 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%



http://www.coinflation.com/walkingliberty_small.jpg (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
1916-1947 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1916-1947-Silver-Walking-Liberty-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1948-1963 Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1948-1963-Silver-Franklin-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1948-1963-Silver-Franklin-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1964 Kennedy Half Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1964-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$7.2809 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1964-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1456.18%




1965-1970 Half Dollar (40% silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-1970-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html)
$0.50

$2.9770 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1965-1970-Silver-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
595.41%



http://www.coinflation.com/morgandollar_small.jpg (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html)
1878-1921 Morgan Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$15.5695 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1878-1921-Silver-Morgan-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1556.95%




1921-1935 Peace Dollar (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1921-1935-Silver-Peace-Dollar-Value.html)
$1.00

$15.5695 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1921-1935-Silver-Peace-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
1556.95%




1971-1976 Eisenhower Dollar (40% silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1974-1976-Silver-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html) **
$1.00

$6.3658 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1971-1974-1976-Silver-Eisenhower-Ike-Dollar-Value.html#meltvalue)
636.58%




1986-2013 Silver Eagle (.999 Silver) (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver-eagle-value.html)
$1.00

$20.1098 (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver-eagle-value.html#meltvalue)
2010.94%




** The U.S. Mint issued two compositions of the nickel in 1942. The standard copper-nickel composition used today and the 35% silver composition listed here. Also, 40% silver Eisenhower dollars were issued as collectibles only, they are generally not found in circulation.

http://www.coinflation.com/silver_coin_calculator.gif (http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html)












According to some on this site, yes, coins minted by the US Treasury are by their definition "lawful money". But try and explain that to them? They go nuts because coins today arent gold and silver but yet not minted by the federal reserve either so they have a tizzy and dont know what to think or what to do.
Their brain go into what is called a vapor lock causing a loop of never ending stupidity until you have to pop their bubble with facts and hard to ask questions to get them to hopefully reset. Hasnt happened yet on this site but I'm not giving up. Some just want to be left alone in their "little" world!

How does the DMV tax you?
Again the DMV is a state agency, not a federal agency, so a state may require a plate and registration even for the so called "sovereign".
I dont believe this cert of origin is a title of possession at all, but what Carl has pointed out. Just a certificate or origin just as it says it is.
Many get this all mixed up with the federal level and dont even realize it belongs and remains on the state level and cobble all sorts of federal and state stuff together....fubar'd!! Then the next thing you know everyone is believing bullshit because its on the internets...so it must be true.

[monty]

I have to correct myself. Article 1 Section 10 Clause 1
"No State shall. . . . . make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;"
this does not differentiate between Public and Private Debs, therefore it covers all debts both public and private.

Therefore, debased coins are not Lawful Money even though the Congrss has declared them to be legal tender.

the registration fees and property tax, privelege tax or whatever they choose to call it that you pay the DMV every year for the Privelege of Driving your car is how they tax you. Without them having the MSO they cannot issue a "Certificate" of Title or register your car. Consequently they cannot charge you or force you to buy insurance.

Edit: in Nevada the state requires Residents to register their car. The Nevada Constitution diferentiates between residents and native born citizens. The Nevada Revised Statutes don't address native born citizens.

The Constitution of Nevada was drawn up with Art. I, Sec. 16 as:
"Foreigners who are, or who may hereafter become Bona-fide residents of this State, shall enjoy the same rights, in respect to the possession, enjoyment and inheritance of property, as native born Citizens."


Edit: as of about 1965 or 1966 all 50 states adopted the UCC and accepted Federal Highway funds wich subjected them to TITLE 49 USC so ultimately your licensing and drivers licence laws are subject to federal law, or lose Federal Highway dollars.

[palani]

Constitutional money and lawful money are not the same. As the maxim goes ... things that are similar are not the same.... constitutional money is gold or silver. Lawful money (as best I can determine) comes to you with no obligations attached thereunto.

Other than that:

1. copper money is for use by peasants
2. silver money is for use by gentlemen
3. gold money is for use by sovereigns
4. paper money is for use by slves

It really is quite a simple system to get straight. I don't really understand how anyone can be confused.

Oh .. and the definition of a dollar .. .the value of a man's labor from sunrise to sunset. But that dollar should be honest lawful money.

[edited to add] ... I forgot the use of Iron in this scheme. When the sovereign runs out of gold he generally reverts to weapons of war .. and these come in the form of iron implements (not plow shares).

[7th trump]

Constitutional money and lawful money are not the same. As the maxim goes ... things that are similar are not the same.... constitutional money is gold or silver. Lawful money (as best I can determine) comes to you with no obligations attached thereunto.

Other than that:

1. copper money is for use by peasants
2. silver money is for use by gentlemen
3. gold money is for use by sovereigns
4. paper money is for use by slves

It really is quite a simple system to get straight. I don't really understand how anyone can be confused.

Oh .. and the definition of a dollar .. .the value of a man's labor from sunrise to sunset. But that dollar should be honest lawful money.

[edited to add] ... I forgot the use of Iron in this scheme. When the sovereign runs out of gold he generally reverts to weapons of war .. and these come in the form of iron implements (not plow shares).

No such thing as Constitutional money.....just coin and a coin can be anything. As far as Article 1 section 10 goes ...the state cannot coin money nor except anything but gold and silver in payment of debt.
There is no Constitutional metal restrictions on what the Treasury can coin...period. And you cant use Article 1 Section 10 as a guide as only gold and silver because that Article is about the restrictions upon the several states, not the central government...they have the power to regulate the value thereof.
And what are the obligations

[monty]

dont believe this cert of origin is a title of possession at all, but what Carl has pointed out. Just a certificate or origin just as it says it is.
Many get this all mixed up with the federal level and dont even realize it belongs and remains on the state level and cobble all sorts of federal and state stuff together....fubar'd!! Then the next thing you know everyone is believing bullshit because its on the internets...so it must be true.

The verbiage at the top of the document indicates transfer of ownership from dealer to purchaser.
"FOR VALUE RECEIVED I TRANSFER THE VEHICLE DESCRIBED ON THE FACE OF THS CERTIFICATE TO"

https://s19.postimg.org/pl1qrm6sj/image.jpg


The California DMV says even a Duplicate MSO/MCO is proof of ownership.

7.005 Manufacturer's Certificate/Statement of Origin (CVC §4150[d])

Unless a new vehicle is sold by a licensed California dealer and an Application for Registration of New Vehicle (REG 397) is submitted, all applications for original registration and/or title of new vehicles and motorcycles must include a Manufacturer's Certificate/Statement of Origin (MCO/MSO).


NOTE: This does not include a direct import vehicle or a specially constructed (SPCNS) vehicle manufactured to resemble a recognized make.
Refer to Chapter 12, Nonresident Vehicles, for direct imports and section 7.190 of this chapter for SPCNS.



The MCO/MSO may be prepared at a factory, an assembly plant, or a business authorized by the manufacturer. All MCO/MSOs, except those for off-road equipment, should be produced in an identical format, and must include:


The manufacturer's name and address.
The make, identification number, body type, year model, and vehicle series or model name.
The date and to whom the ownership was transferred from the manufacturer and the signature of the manufacturer's agent (a signature stamp is acceptable).



NOTE: Reassignments made in the space provided on the MCO/MSO do not need to be notarized for California, even if a notarization space is provided.



Although variations exist, an MCO/MSO normally is: 7" x 11" in size, on paper stock sixty (60) pound offset or equivalent durability, and printed with security features that include:


Sensitized security paper without added optical brighteners that will not fluoresce under ultraviolet light.
Engraved border and prismatic-rainbow printing with Copy Void Pantograph (the word "void" appears when the document is copied).
Two complex colors (colors developed by using a mixture of two or more primary colors and black) and two security threads, with or without watermark, and/or intaglio print, with or without latent image, and/or security laminate.

Duplicate MCO/MSO

A duplicate copy of an MSO issued by the manufacturer is acceptable as proof of ownership.


It must clearly state "Duplicate" on the face of the document, contain the same security features as the original MSO, and contain the identical descriptive information, except for the issuance date, as the original MSO.
Any discrepancy invalidates the duplicate. A photocopy of the original is not acceptable.



http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch7/ch7_2

[palani]

No such thing as Constitutional money Constitutional money is the stuff the several States can use to make tender of payment.

And what are the obligations Obligation and duty are synonymous. If you don't know what duty is all you have to do is pick up a phone and contact U.S. Customs. They will likely fill you in on the details.

[monty]

Many get this all mixed up with the federal level and dont even realize it belongs and remains on the state level and cobble all sorts of federal and state stuff together....fubar'd!! Then the next thing you know every one is believing bullshit because its on the internets . . . . . . so it must be true

I found this on the interwebs . . . . So it must be true . . . . . .

Edit: Judge Anna says the federal and state stuff are mixed and it was done intentionaly.

That is a good reason to have a Convention of The States with delegates fommthe LAND jurisdiction to fix this mess and get Ares thread back on the rails!!!

http://annavonreitz.com/onemoretime.pdf

One more time...Judge Anna attempts to Straighten out the old man.


Posted on November 9, 2014 by arnierosner It is a dirty job but someone must do it!


One more time...Judge Anna attempts to Straighten out the old man. The one who knows nothing.
On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Anna von Reitz <avannavon@gmail.com> wrote:


What you aren’t understanding Arnie is that they bypassed OUR government and set up their own “lawful”government under Article 1Section 8 Clause 17 and deceitfully called it the United States of America(Minor) and created all these “federal States” under its auspices.


They are administering their own completely foreign government in the international jurisdiction of the Sea without reference to our lawful government of The United States of America (Major) on the LAND jurisdiction.


We are American State Citizens on the land jurisdiction of The United States of America (Major) and wesimply haven’t operated our own jurisdiction since 1860.


Strictly speaking they committed no treason but they have committed plenty of semantic deceit and fraud. It Remains for us to exercise our jurisdiction on the land and to respect their jurisdiction on the “High Seas and Navigable Inland Waterways”—and keep them from “mistaking” us as one of their “US Citizens” or as any kind of Rebel they are authorized to chase down.
We do that by clearly stating that we are American State Citizens operating within the land jurisdiction of The United States of America (Major) and flying its civil flag. Civil trumps martial every time so long as you invoke your civil authority on the LAND.


As I have told you– every single American has more civil authority on the land than the entire federal government. Their look-alike and sound-alike “federal States” are limited to serving THEIR “United States Citizens” and have nothing to do with OUR American State Citizens or our States on the LAND.


There is the Ohio State — a Republic on the LAND and there is the “State of Ohio” a Legislative Democracy on the Sea. There are American State Citizens peacefully inhabiting the Ohio State and there are United States Citizens in a constant “state” of “war” residing in the federal “State of Ohio”.


If we are not smart enough to see through their legal chicanery and semantic deceits based on the use of similar words, they will self-interestedly “mistake” us as one of their own “United States Citizens” and prosecute us in one of their courts according to their laws (as they are doing with Rod Class) or they will try to pretend that we are “rebels” or “enemies” that they are allowed to track down and try in “Special Admiralty Tribunals” — it is up to us to know our history and our authority and rebut these claims.


Special Admiralty came about as a result of the Reconstruction Acts which established five military districtsin ten Southern States and let the military commanders appoint civil judges to prosecute any remaining“rebels” — but President Andrew Johnson made three formal and public declarations that the American States on the LAND were at peace. So none of the Specialty Admiralty tribunal crap applied to any peaceful American State Citizen on the LAND.


Same thing with the extension of “Special Admiralty” during the First World War — applies only to UnitedStates Citizens— that is FEDERAL citizens. American State Citizens are specifically excluded from Trading With The Enemy Act by Applications Appendix Section 21. If you think about it you will realize that NO maritime or admiralty jurisdictions can ever apply to American State Citizens in the LAND–and you will also realize that statutory laws apply only to statutory entities that are created by statutes.


The rats have been routinely applying maritime and admiralty and statutory law to living American StateCitizens because we have been too ignorant to know and to clearly declare who we are and invoke our own birthright standing. They have also promoted a lot of confusion via the use of similar names and the creation of “legal fiction” entities that are merely named after us and which are various kinds of incorporated legal fiction entities– trusts, estates, transmitting utilities, etc, that ARE subject to statutory law but which have nothing whatsoever to do with us.


The organizations that created all these legal fictions and abused our given names to name them are responsible for their operations and all their expenses– not us. So the foreign situs trusts doing business as“John Quincy Adam” were created by the United States of America, Inc. And were considered to be "persons” owned by the ” State” franchises of the United States of America, Inc. And we’re subject to all federal and state statutory laws.


These “things” are the responsibility of the corporation that created them, subject to the laws and jurisdiction of the creator of them– and they have been used as a device to “mistake” the living Americans as either the same as or as corporate officers serving these legal fictions.


The only reason this has gone on as long as it has is that we have not stood up and shown that
1.— we know who we are and
2. We know what we are NOT— that is, that we are NOT legal fiction entities that someone merely named after us and trumped up debt against, NOT statutory entities subject to any statutory law, and NOT United States Citizens of any kind.

We are American State Citizens with both feet firmly planted on the land and we fly the civil flag of TheUnited States of America (Major) — notice the “of America” and the ( Major)??? That is to make a cleardistinction between us and “United States” and “United States of America (Minor) — both— and to cut to the end of this long chase. I get tired of explaining this over and over and over so feel free to publish it and read it over as many times as needed until it sinks in.


On Sunday, November 9, 2014, Arnie Rosner <arnie@arnierosner.com> wrote:


Jim,
My denseness will not permit me to get past the root of the evil. The people with whom you all seem towork are not the legitimate government. They are a corporate franchise of the now defunct corporationwhich was operating as the United States of America INC.

They have committee treason. They must be considered as foreign invaders out of uniform.

They have replaced the lawful state governments with these corporate franchise operations throughunconstitutional means.. It is my view, that when people address these legitimate issues to them, this givesthem recognition amongst the people who are ignorant to these conditions, and strengthens the illusion oflegitimacy.

Since no lawful state government exists, there is no lawful state government to issue corporate charters.Therefore, no corporation in the state is lawful.

[palani]

I found this on the interwebs . . . . So it must be true

One might get all wrapped up in history and use events and documents to point out fallacies in the present. I do this all the time myself. But all you really need to know is that the present New World Order makes no provision for your (and my) continued survival. Once survival becomes part of the the issue you are no longer talking Law de jure. Instead you are discussing the Law of Necessity. This Law is where most people are functioning. The Law of Necessity is part of the uniform system of bankruptcy permitted in the U.S. constitution so there is nothing UNconstitutional about what is happening.

It was permitted early on and the bankruptcy provision is evidence of the foresight of the founders.

[7th trump]

The verbiage at the top of the document indicates transfer of ownership from dealer to purchaser.
"FOR VALUE RECEIVED I TRANSFER THE VEHICLE DESCRIBED ON THE FACE OF THS CERTIFICATE TO"

https://s19.postimg.org/pl1qrm6sj/image.jpg


The California DMV says even a Duplicate MSO/MCO is proof of ownership.

7.005 Manufacturer's Certificate/Statement of Origin (CVC §4150[d])

Unless a new vehicle is sold by a licensed California dealer and an Application for Registration of New Vehicle (REG 397) is submitted, all applications for original registration and/or title of new vehicles and motorcycles must include a Manufacturer's Certificate/Statement of Origin (MCO/MSO).


NOTE: This does not include a direct import vehicle or a specially constructed (SPCNS) vehicle manufactured to resemble a recognized make.
Refer to Chapter 12, Nonresident Vehicles, for direct imports and section 7.190 of this chapter for SPCNS.



The MCO/MSO may be prepared at a factory, an assembly plant, or a business authorized by the manufacturer. All MCO/MSOs, except those for off-road equipment, should be produced in an identical format, and must include:


The manufacturer's name and address.
The make, identification number, body type, year model, and vehicle series or model name.
The date and to whom the ownership was transferred from the manufacturer and the signature of the manufacturer's agent (a signature stamp is acceptable).



NOTE: Reassignments made in the space provided on the MCO/MSO do not need to be notarized for California, even if a notarization space is provided.



Although variations exist, an MCO/MSO normally is: 7" x 11" in size, on paper stock sixty (60) pound offset or equivalent durability, and printed with security features that include:


Sensitized security paper without added optical brighteners that will not fluoresce under ultraviolet light.
Engraved border and prismatic-rainbow printing with Copy Void Pantograph (the word "void" appears when the document is copied).
Two complex colors (colors developed by using a mixture of two or more primary colors and black) and two security threads, with or without watermark, and/or intaglio print, with or without latent image, and/or security laminate.

Duplicate MCO/MSO

A duplicate copy of an MSO issued by the manufacturer is acceptable as proof of ownership.


It must clearly state "Duplicate" on the face of the document, contain the same security features as the original MSO, and contain the identical descriptive information, except for the issuance date, as the original MSO.
Any discrepancy invalidates the duplicate. A photocopy of the original is not acceptable.



http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch7/ch7_2
And there's my point.

A duplicate copy of an MSO issued by the manufacturer is acceptable as proof of ownership.

It specifically states that the duplicate is issued by the manufacturer, not the lying dishonest douche bag midnight rambler. Midnight tried his best three attempts to get the state to issue him a title while keeping the original and passing a forgery. The state wasn't buying it because upon accepting his copy he could have been defrauding the state and robbing another individual out of a vehicle.


This is a perfect example of me pointing out you peoples dishonesty and lack of integrity. You're trying your best to keep your conspiracies afloat. You see the truth, but do not address what makes your truths into what they actually are...............dishonest lies.
Its no mistake that midnight and Ares would thank this post. Its telling what kind of persons they really are. Vipers at the core passing themselves off as pillars to the public.

[Ares]

Its no mistake that midnight and Ares would thank this post. Its telling what kind of persons they really are. Vipers at the core passing themselves off as pillars to the public.

LMAO Says the moron who masturbates to his own ego and can never, ever admit to being wrong on anything.

You're always right 7th (Communist Sympathizer) Trump. Whatever you say is gospel. :rolleyes:

R2Dindu strikes again!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahRHgdH1VY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahRHgdH1VY

[7th trump]

I found this on the interwebs . . . . So it must be true . . . . . .

Edit: Judge Anna says the federal and state stuff are mixed and it was done intentionaly.

That is a good reason to have a Convention of The States with delegates fommthe LAND jurisdiction to fix this mess and get Ares thread back on the rails!!!

http://annavonreitz.com/onemoretime.pdf

One more time...Judge Anna attempts to Straighten out the old man.


Posted on November 9, 2014 by arnierosner It is a dirty job but someone must do it!


One more time...Judge Anna attempts to Straighten out the old man. The one who knows nothing.
On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Anna von Reitz <avannavon@gmail.com> wrote:


What you aren’t understanding Arnie is that they bypassed OUR government and set up their own “lawful”government under Article 1Section 8 Clause 17 and deceitfully called it the United States of America(Minor) and created all these “federal States” under its auspices.


They are administering their own completely foreign government in the international jurisdiction of the Sea without reference to our lawful government of The United States of America (Major) on the LAND jurisdiction.


We are American State Citizens on the land jurisdiction of The United States of America (Major) and wesimply haven’t operated our own jurisdiction since 1860.


Strictly speaking they committed no treason but they have committed plenty of semantic deceit and fraud. It Remains for us to exercise our jurisdiction on the land and to respect their jurisdiction on the “High Seas and Navigable Inland Waterways”—and keep them from “mistaking” us as one of their “US Citizens” or as any kind of Rebel they are authorized to chase down.
We do that by clearly stating that we are American State Citizens operating within the land jurisdiction of The United States of America (Major) and flying its civil flag. Civil trumps martial every time so long as you invoke your civil authority on the LAND.


As I have told you– every single American has more civil authority on the land than the entire federal government. Their look-alike and sound-alike “federal States” are limited to serving THEIR “United States Citizens” and have nothing to do with OUR American State Citizens or our States on the LAND.


There is the Ohio State — a Republic on the LAND and there is the “State of Ohio” a Legislative Democracy on the Sea. There are American State Citizens peacefully inhabiting the Ohio State and there are United States Citizens in a constant “state” of “war” residing in the federal “State of Ohio”.


If we are not smart enough to see through their legal chicanery and semantic deceits based on the use of similar words, they will self-interestedly “mistake” us as one of their own “United States Citizens” and prosecute us in one of their courts according to their laws (as they are doing with Rod Class) or they will try to pretend that we are “rebels” or “enemies” that they are allowed to track down and try in “Special Admiralty Tribunals” — it is up to us to know our history and our authority and rebut these claims.


Special Admiralty came about as a result of the Reconstruction Acts which established five military districtsin ten Southern States and let the military commanders appoint civil judges to prosecute any remaining“rebels” — but President Andrew Johnson made three formal and public declarations that the American States on the LAND were at peace. So none of the Specialty Admiralty tribunal crap applied to any peaceful American State Citizen on the LAND.


Same thing with the extension of “Special Admiralty” during the First World War — applies only to UnitedStates Citizens— that is FEDERAL citizens. American State Citizens are specifically excluded from Trading With The Enemy Act by Applications Appendix Section 21. If you think about it you will realize that NO maritime or admiralty jurisdictions can ever apply to American State Citizens in the LAND–and you will also realize that statutory laws apply only to statutory entities that are created by statutes.


The rats have been routinely applying maritime and admiralty and statutory law to living American StateCitizens because we have been too ignorant to know and to clearly declare who we are and invoke our own birthright standing. They have also promoted a lot of confusion via the use of similar names and the creation of “legal fiction” entities that are merely named after us and which are various kinds of incorporated legal fiction entities– trusts, estates, transmitting utilities, etc, that ARE subject to statutory law but which have nothing whatsoever to do with us.


The organizations that created all these legal fictions and abused our given names to name them are responsible for their operations and all their expenses– not us. So the foreign situs trusts doing business as“John Quincy Adam” were created by the United States of America, Inc. And were considered to be "persons” owned by the ” State” franchises of the United States of America, Inc. And we’re subject to all federal and state statutory laws.


These “things” are the responsibility of the corporation that created them, subject to the laws and jurisdiction of the creator of them– and they have been used as a device to “mistake” the living Americans as either the same as or as corporate officers serving these legal fictions.


The only reason this has gone on as long as it has is that we have not stood up and shown that
1.— we know who we are and
2. We know what we are NOT— that is, that we are NOT legal fiction entities that someone merely named after us and trumped up debt against, NOT statutory entities subject to any statutory law, and NOT United States Citizens of any kind.

We are American State Citizens with both feet firmly planted on the land and we fly the civil flag of TheUnited States of America (Major) — notice the “of America” and the ( Major)??? That is to make a cleardistinction between us and “United States” and “United States of America (Minor) — both— and to cut to the end of this long chase. I get tired of explaining this over and over and over so feel free to publish it and read it over as many times as needed until it sinks in.


On Sunday, November 9, 2014, Arnie Rosner <arnie@arnierosner.com> wrote:


Jim,
My denseness will not permit me to get past the root of the evil. The people with whom you all seem towork are not the legitimate government. They are a corporate franchise of the now defunct corporationwhich was operating as the United States of America INC.

They have committee treason. They must be considered as foreign invaders out of uniform.

They have replaced the lawful state governments with these corporate franchise operations throughunconstitutional means.. It is my view, that when people address these legitimate issues to them, this givesthem recognition amongst the people who are ignorant to these conditions, and strengthens the illusion oflegitimacy.

Since no lawful state government exists, there is no lawful state government to issue corporate charters.Therefore, no corporation in the state is lawful.










Thanks Monty. This is exactly what I've been saying the whole time, but I'm not under the influence that they forced this upon us. We did this ourselves by volunteering into the system. Palani will disagree with me but the Income Tax research I've done over the last 14 years all points to the SSN. The application of a ssn is voluntary, you can have a ssn and still remain a State citizen American (We the People).
The courts have ruled there are two citizenships, one national and one international and you can walk into one and out the other and visa versa anytime you like. The Constitution protects your ability to walk out of the international citizenship. State citizenship is recognized by the federal and state governments of which rights you hold. You tell them, they do not tell you (as most here presume).
There is no law that can be forced upon you that strips any American of their Bill of Rights unless you volunteer by plastering you signature on government forms thats signed under penalty of perjury of being a "US citizen".

[7th trump]

LMAO Says the moron who masturbates to his own ego and can never, ever admit to being wrong on anything.

You're always right 7th (Communist Sympathizer) Trump. Whatever you say is gospel. :rolleyes:

R2Dindu strikes again!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahRHgdH1VY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahRHgdH1VY

Yeah?
Your ignorant silly ass thanked the post because you thought midnight was in the correct and I wasn't until I pointed out your short comings.
Again I prove you're incapable of critical thinking and you opt for the easy way out that 99.9% of people do....believe someone's lie over being honest with yourself.

Go screw yourself!
Any wonder I don't pay taxes and don't have a problem with the IRS?
Its because I did the critical thinking research, crossed my "T's" and dotted every "I" and refuse to take the advice of fools.

Monty is starting to understand, it appears he's beginning to have an unbiased thinking pattern.
Carl I suspect is past Monty's point of understanding...he voices the truth. His mind is made up for a reason that most of you guys are fools and just spread bullshit because you're lazy as hell.

[Ares]

Yeah?
Your ignorant silly ass thanked the post because you thought midnight was in the correct and I wasn't until I pointed out your short comings.

There you go assuming again. Just like the brain dead ignorant jackass we all know you to be.


Again I prove you're incapable of critical thinking and you opt for the easy way out that 99.9% of people do....believe someone's lie over being honest with yourself.

You proved absolutely NOTHING! I thanked Monty's post because I found it informative. I usually just ignore your robotic useless banter because you're a fucking idiot. I asked for the LAW that mandates you to acquire a license or register your vehicle. In typical 7th (Communist Sympathizer) trump fashion you never even acknowledged it. After I've given up on expecting any sort of answer out of you and have been relatively quiet in this thread you go and proclaim that you proved me incapable of critical thinking skills? You're a delusional fucking moron. How anyone can take you even remotely seriously is beyond me. I find it a miracle that you even take yourself seriously.


Go screw yourself!

I have a feeling you screw yourself just about every day and that you enjoy doing it.


Any wonder I don't pay taxes and don't have a problem with the IRS?

Nope, we've touched on that subject quite a bit and understand the process well. It's just not an option for my place of employment, if I press the issue I'll most likely get let go.


Its because I did the critical thinking research, crossed my "T's" and dotted every "I" and refuse to take the advice of fools.

You keep telling yourself that, but your ego will be the end of you.

[7th trump]

There you go assuming again. Just like the brain dead ignorant jackass we all know you to be.



You proved absolutely NOTHING! I thanked Monty's post because I found it informative. I usually just ignore your robotic useless banter because you're a fucking idiot. I asked for the LAW that mandates you to acquire a license or register your vehicle. In typical 7th (Communist Sympathizer) trump fashion you never even acknowledged it. After I've given up on expecting any sort of answer out of you and have been relatively quiet in this thread you go and proclaim that you proved me incapable of critical thinking skills? You're a delusional fucking moron. How anyone can take you even remotely seriously is beyond me. I find it a miracle that you even take yourself seriously.



I have a feeling you screw yourself just about every day and that you enjoy doing it.



Nope, we've touched on that subject quite a bit and understand the process well. It's just not an option for my place of employment, if I press the issue I'll most likely get let go.



You keep telling yourself that, but your ego will be the end of you.

You really don't know shit then.

[Bigjon]

Yeah?
Your ignorant silly ass thanked the post because you thought midnight was in the correct and I wasn't until I pointed out your short comings.
Again I prove you're incapable of critical thinking and you opt for the easy way out that 99.9% of people do....believe someone's lie over being honest with yourself.

Go screw yourself!
Any wonder I don't pay taxes and don't have a problem with the IRS?
Its because I did the critical thinking research, crossed my "T's" and dotted every "I" and refuse to take the advice of fools.

Monty is starting to understand, it appears he's beginning to have an unbiased thinking pattern.
Carl I suspect is past Monty's point of understanding...he voices the truth. His mind is made up for a reason that most of you guys are fools and just spread bullshit because you're lazy as hell.

So which constitution is in force as far as the UNITED STATES INC goes?

[7th trump]

So which constitution is in force as far as the UNITED STATES INC goes?

Care to elaborate further?
Just what is it your asking with this loaded question?

[mick silver]

there laws , two sets of laws one for us and one for them once you understand that you will know how the laws work

[Bigjon]

Care to elaborate further?
Just what is it your asking with this loaded question?

It seems to me it's pretty straight forward, how many constitutions are there?

[midnight rambler]

Care to elaborate further?
Just what is it your asking with this loaded question?

Pretty simple straightforward question regarding the 'Federal corporation' as defined at 28 USC 3002(15)(a), essentially the only definition for 'United States' in Title 28.

You're being disingenuous.

[Ares]

You really don't know shit then.

Says the poster who didn't even bother to refute a single point made.

You know why you have such a hard time here 7th (Communist Sympathizer) trump? Because you don't back anything up. Outside of tax (Which you DO cite sources) law (really only statutes) you back up absolutely nothing. Then when asked for evidence or proof you deride the poster asking you for that evidence as an idiot, a know nothing, or being ignorant or pass it off as simply conspiracy garbage.

You're totally fucking predictable when it comes to a debate. You claim to know what you are talking about, when pushed for proof you revert to some defensive little know nothing shit and continue ad nauseam for countless pages on the same thread totally derailing the threads original intent into a virtual pissing match.

So who really doesn't know shit here?

[palani]

the Income Tax research I've done over the last 14 years all points to the SSN. The application of a ssn is voluntary, you can have a ssn and still remain a State citizen American (We the People).
So can you still be living while a death certificate has been issued in your name?

Can you be a monk (civil death) and still expect to work and pay taxes?

[7th trump]

Pretty simple straightforward question regarding the 'Federal corporation' as defined at 28 USC 3002(15)(a), essentially the only definition for 'United States' in Title 28.

You're being disingenuous.

You think you have out smarted me?
You shouldnt play around with a guy who has far more knowledge of the statutes and law than you.
You have proven no point except your ignorance is widely known.
That definition you think is the silver bullet stays in title 28 for the purpose of title 28 (judiciary). It cannot be used in any other 49 titles of US law.
Secondly, I never said the Federal government wasnt a corporation. It has been since the day DC came into existence. Why do you think it is in Title 28 in the first place.
I've said it numerous times you twit......corporations have presidents, vice presidents, treasurers and secretary's.....just how retarded are you?

[7th trump]

So can you still be living while a death certificate has been issued in your name?

Can you be a monk (civil death) and still expect to work and pay taxes?

Again...stop with your stupid verbage....get to the point!
You are trying to make a point right?

[7th trump]

Says the poster who didn't even bother to refute a single point made.

You know why you have such a hard time here 7th (Communist Sympathizer) trump? Because you don't back anything up. Outside of tax (Which you DO cite sources) law (really only statutes) you back up absolutely nothing. Then when asked for evidence or proof you deride the poster asking you for that evidence as an idiot, a know nothing, or being ignorant or pass it off as simply conspiracy garbage.

You're totally fucking predictable when it comes to a debate. You claim to know what you are talking about, when pushed for proof you revert to some defensive little know nothing shit and continue ad nauseam for countless pages on the same thread totally derailing the threads original intent into a virtual pissing match.

So who really doesn't know shit here?

You've only asked me to prove a point for you by providing a loaded question.

Hint: I will not ever do your research for you. If you have a point to make its appropriate to have at least some evidence. Its inappropriate and rude to play games asking someone to look for a statute for you to prove your point.

[palani]

get to the point

Is it possible to be alive and dead at the same time? Is it possible to be a federal citizen and a state citizen at the same time?

[midnight rambler]

You shouldnt play around with a guy who has far more knowledge of the statutes...than you.

Indeed, I realize that you regard the works of Satan as your bible.

[7th trump]

Indeed, I realize that you regard the works of Satan as your bible.

Trust me when you read this.....I'm for more knowledgeable in both the Bible and the law and have probably forgotten more of both than you'll ever know grass hopper!

[midnight rambler]

Pride goeth before destruction and haughtiness goeth before a fall.

[7th trump]

Pride goeth before destruction and haughtiness goeth before a fall.

Hahahahahaha..............yeah what ever douche bag.
I've asked for intelligence and Hes given it to me.

Read...its for your own good!
8332

[midnight rambler]

Cheezus is SO proud of you!

[7th trump]

Cheezus is SO proud of you!

I wouldnt be so haughty of making fun of Christ in such a fashion if I were you.
And to think you accuse me of being prideful.

[7th trump]

Is it possible to be alive and dead at the same time? Is it possible to be a federal citizen and a state citizen at the same time?
Well your first question is retarded and doesnt deserve a response.

Yes, but according to the supreme court the federal side trumps the state side on Rights.

[palani]

Well your first question is retarded and doesnt deserve a response.

Non-responsive answer(s) not permitted.

[midnight rambler]

In contrast, you're a Satan worshiping statist and Bolshevik enabler. I'm very confident the Satanic Jezus is very proud of you. You don't discriminate you hate everyone equally. lol

[7th trump]

Non-responsive answer(s) not permitted.

You the king of the non responsive answer....bahahahaha....!

[7th trump]

In contrast, you're a Satan worshiping statist and Bolshevik enabler. I'm very confident the Satanic Jezus is very proud of you. You don't discriminate you hate everyone equally. lol

There you have it GSUS ...the defeated mightnight rambler who everyone knows as the resident soviet commy.
He cant win and doesnt win any of his arguments so he is reduced to character assassination....its a jewish trait!

Shall I revisit your old threads midnight...the ones where you step on America and bolster the communists?
Do you think GSUS has forgotton your love of the soviets?

[midnight rambler]

We all know that you're so insufferable you have no real friends* in the real world and that you come here for your own amusement as something to do (in an vain effort to try to establish yourself as everyone else's intellectual superior in your own extremely deluded construct). lol

*well perhaps the three limpdicks (your kind of folks) who are 'car salesmen' you hang out with at a bar, indeed lol

[Ares]

http://theurbanchica.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/82623100.jpg

[7th trump]

We all know that you're so insufferable you have no real friends* in the real world and that you come here for your own amusement as something to do (in an vain effort to try to establish yourself as everyone else's intellectual superior in your own extremely deluded construct). lol

*well perhaps the three limpdicks (your kind of folks) who are 'car salesmen' you hang out with at a bar, indeed lol

Seriously....you're here more than I am sucking up to everyone with all those thanks. Kissing ass is what it really is.
I bet you have given out more thanks than I have posts

[palani]

You the king of the non responsive answer

Your questions are not structured for (yes) or (no). You want explanations.

Pitiable that you cannot tell the difference.

[midnight rambler]

Seriously....you're here more than I am sucking up to everyone with all those thanks. Kissing ass is what it really is.
I bet you have given out more thanks than I have posts

Apparently that's one of your personal defects, an absolute lack of any ability whatsoever to show appreciation or gratitude which is absolutely essential for a happy, healthy, well-adjusted and successful life. I suffered a similar malady about 10 years ago however I changed my tune now people call me virtually every day to throw wealth at me. lol All of my clients love me, every single one of them because I truly and genuinely appreciate them. Life is sweet and it just continues to get better and better...many thanks to The Way.

ETA: I do admit there are some posts I 'thank' just to irritate you. Amazing how well that works, you keep bring it up which causes me to do more of that. lol

[Neuro]

Apparently that's one of your personal defects, an absolute lack of any ability whatsoever to show appreciation or gratitude which is absolutely essential for a happy, healthy, well-adjusted and successful life. I suffered a similar malady about 10 years ago however I changed my tune now people call me virtually every day to throw wealth at me. lol All of my clients love me, every single one of them because I truly and genuinely appreciate them. Life is sweet and it just continues to get better and better...many thanks to The Way.

ETA: I do admit there are some posts I 'thank' just to irritate you. Amazing how well that works, you keep bring it up which causes me to do more of that. lol

Absolutely! gratitude for what you have and what you get is essential for a rich life! I think 7th Trump is only grateful for what he gets for his communist Union fees. So that is the only thing he clings his life too! His commie Union!

[midnight rambler]

Absolutely! gratitude for what you have and what you get is essential for a rich life! I think 7th Trump is only grateful for what he gets for his communist Union fees. So that is the only thing he clings his life too!

Much gathers more.

Even a dung beetle is grateful for his rolling shitball, however this one appears to be an exception.

[7th trump]

Absolutely! gratitude for what you have and what you get is essential for a rich life! I think 7th Trump is only grateful for what he gets for his communist Union fees. So that is the only thing he clings his life too! His commie Union!

A lot of projection going on about me dont ya think neuro?

Even you know unions arent communist, but run along and play with your little friends.

[7th trump]

Much gathers more.

Even a dung beetle is grateful for his rolling shitball, however this one appears to be an exception.

Greed..its one the seven sins!

Heres the sin "pride"....even takes it back to the Greek for a better interpretation


Hubris (/ˈhjuːbrɪs/, also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις) describes a personality quality of extreme or foolish pride or dangerous over-confidence.[

You have an extreme amount of this Midnight.

[midnight rambler]

Huge difference between being wealthy and being greedy. I spread it around, very generously. Like Trump.

At this point I have no 'need' of money. I just experience abundance, because I'm in harmony with The Source of All.

Full Definition of greed



: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed

[7th trump]

Huge difference between being wealthy and being greedy. I spread it around, very generously. Like Trump.

At this point I have no 'need' of money. I just experience abundance.

Full Definition of greed



: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed


Ummm...you should use the biblical sense version for a better understanding it being a sin.

[7th trump]

Huge difference between being wealthy and being greedy. I spread it around, very generously. Like Trump.

At this point I have no 'need' of money. I just experience abundance, because I'm in harmony with The Source of All.

Full Definition of greed



: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed


So you being a commy sympathizer uses capitalism......sounds like Soros to me.

[midnight rambler]

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to review Matthew Chapter 7...

The perfect statist calls me a commie, gotta love it. lol

[7th trump]

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to review Matthew Chapter 7...

The perfect statist calls me a commie, gotta love it. lol

Hahaha...everyone here knows you are!
Its not news ya know!

Mathew 7 huh......have you looked at what you have written about me in big red letters?
We all know you're twisting everything around (lying)....thats a serious Commandment violation right there.

Have I ever mentioned anything along the lines of being HONEST before?

[Neuro]

A lot of projection going on about me dont ya think neuro?

Even you know unions arent communist, but run along and play with your little friends.

You are collectively supporting Hillary! ;D

[7th trump]

You are collectively supporting Hillary! ;D

Still in that habit of projecting. I guess nothing changes with you.
Besides why would you care what any American supports or doesn't unless you're that much of egotistical dick? You're aren't even an American to begin with. You're a foreigner on the other side of the earth. You have a lot of jack assery to throw your two cents in.....but GSUS knows this about you. Most don't like you.
But run along and play with your little soviet friend Midnight...he needs all the friends he can get.

[midnight rambler]

Still in that habit of projecting. I guess nothing changes with you...you're that much of egotistical dick?

Oh gawd, the irony! I LOVE irony!

BTW Sodomite, those are YOUR VERY OWN VERBATIM words in quotes in my sig, you self-admitted card-carrying Communist. lol

[Ares]

You've only asked me to prove a point for you by providing a loaded question.

Hint: I will not ever do your research for you. If you have a point to make its appropriate to have at least some evidence. Its inappropriate and rude to play games asking someone to look for a statute for you to prove your point.

It's only a loaded question to prove to you that there is no law that compels performance to get a license or register your vehicle. Instead of admitting that little nugget of truth you go around in a circle jerk matter discussing everything but that actual question.

Which goes right back into this comment here:


You're totally fucking predictable when it comes to a debate. You claim to know what you are talking about, when pushed for proof you revert to some defensive little know nothing shit and continue ad nauseam for countless pages on the same thread totally derailing the threads original intent into a virtual pissing match.

Totally 100% fucking predictable, as always.

[7th trump]

It's only a loaded question to prove to you that there is no law that compels performance to get a license or register your vehicle. Instead of admitting that little nugget of truth you go around in a circle jerk matter discussing everything but that actual question.

Which goes right back into this comment here:



Totally 100% fucking predictable, as always.

Wrong!
All "US citizens" must obey the laws of Congress. You as a US citizen are their subjects. You live and operate in their jurisdiction.
The US Constitution specifically outlines you as a "US citizen" are in their jurisdiction. You are also in international jurisdiction. The federal government was created to deal with international issues and since Congress has jurisdiction you automatically fall within international laws...treaties and such.
You are compelled to get a license by the state if the state says you will as a second class US citizen.

The pecking order goes like this moron
1 Top dog and KING....."We the People".
2. The State...the feds
3. US citizens

Now somewhere in #1 involves the union state and they trump the "We the People" by state Constitution......meaning if the People in a Particular state give the union state by virtue of state Constitutions power over certain issues the union state trumps We the People for that particular issue!

Get a life asshole....I've forgotten more than you'll probably ever know. I've been researching the issue for over 14 years...that trumps your bullshit you've learned by doing a simple search on the web or any of the bullshit you heard from the f%ck sticks who think they know something on this site.

Heck you're listening to a fool calling himself palani that cant answer one question.
and another douche bag who steps on the US while waiving the jew Soviet flag.
Then you have another cripple from over seas who thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread because hes a....."A chiropractor"...bahahahaha......!
Not to mention a spoiled brat of an immature little girl with colored blue hair....if that doesn't tell you shes a little twisted in the head.

[midnight rambler]

Bolshevik Sodomite dung beetle, my assistants each take home more than you do, and they're getting paid to shovel shit*.

*of course they're professional shit shovelers, not some lowly card-carrying Communist Sodomite human resource getting off twisting wire nuts

[7th trump]

Bolshevik Sodomite dung beetle, my assistants each take home more than you do, and they're getting paid to shovel shit*.

*of course they're professional shit shovelers, not some lowly card-carrying Communist Sodomite human resource getting off twisting wire nuts
Hahahahahaha....still upset aren't you!
You could be saving yourself a ton of dollars but you're stupid enough to give it away to uncle sam for absolutely nothing. You pay half of each employees SS wages.....why?
I'm sure if you and your employees knew that SS was voluntary you'd both stop contributing into the system. You stop contributing and no federal income taxes will be deducted nor any SS taxes for employment. same goes for self employment. Your business taxes are a different story.

Yeah what ever child......so you're paying your guys 26.50 on the check and an additional 8.00 dollars an hour for health and welfare benefits to match me?
34.50 bucks to shovel shit per hour per employee?
And you are in texas? Scale down there isn't as high as up here....so I doubt youre telling the truth. I bet the truth is your hiring illegal Mexicans under the table and then calculating what the equivalent in peso's for living in Mexico. 8 an hour in US in Mexico is good living. Yeah I bets that's what you're doing. Undermining the US by hiring illegals and pushing for a North American Union...sounds like communist....why does Soro's keep coming to mind with you?
If you are paying your guys more to shovel shit....hahahaha well stupid is what stupid does.

I don't just twist wire nuts...that an electrician. I'm a different classification....teledata! I install fiber optics and comm cables and wireless networks.

[midnight rambler]

I never said anything about 'paying' anyone with FRNs, nor did I mention the word 'employee'. lol Seriously. You continue to demonstrate what a clueless Sodomite Communist you are. Plus you're a card-carrying Communist and EMPLOYEE/human resource for a trans-national globalist 'employer'. lol

And FWIW, NO ONE can compete with our shit shoveling skills. NO ONE! We set the benchmark for shit shoveling. There is definitely an art to it and one has to love what one is doing.

[7th trump]

I never said anything about 'paying' anyone with FRNs, nor did I mention the word 'employee'. lol Seriously. You continue to demonstrate what a clueless Sodomite Communist you are. Plus you're a card-carrying Communist and EMPLOYEE/human resource for a trans-national globalist 'employer'. lol

And FWIW, NO ONE can compete with our shit shoveling skills. NO ONE! We set the benchmark for shit shoveling. There is definitely an art to it and one has to love what one is doing.

You have assistants, but not employees? Nice word salad.
Do you always intentionally misguide people? Seems you have a knack for it.

So your assissants are illegal Mexicans you claim make more than I do, but you are against unions to better their scale and living conditions.
How American...ohh wait.....never mind!
Nice of you to kill the economy comrade by hiring illegals.
You're more NWO than anyone here. Your core is so un-American and greedy....no wonder you've never mentioned what you do until now.
And not a surprise you're a pro soviet flag waiving soro's loving communist.
I bet you have a Soro's shrine and you're a closet democrat.

I take it your assistants are self employed because you're too greedy to have employees.

[midnight rambler]

I see that like a good little goy drone you're unable to think outside the Communist/statist construct your gods on earth the Chosenites have herded you into. lol

[Neuro]

Still in that habit of projecting. I guess nothing changes with you.
Besides why would you care what any American supports or doesn't unless you're that much of egotistical dick? You're aren't even an American to begin with. You're a foreigner on the other side of the earth. You have a lot of jack assery to throw your two cents in.....but GSUS knows this about you. Most don't like you.
But run along and play with your little soviet friend Midnight...he needs all the friends he can get.

No one here likes you! ;D

Obviously you don't understand what projecting is.

I don't actually care what you support or not but you belong to a communist Union that support Hillary for president financially. Meanwhile you accuse Midnight rambler of being a communist. That is projection, not to mention hypocritical. Accusing me of projection while you do it yourself is also projection.

You got yourself a double whammy there idiot!

I am sorry you are so arrogantly ignorant. That's why you don't have any friends.

You stupid fuck!

Sincerely!

[7th trump]

No one here likes you! ;D

Obviously you don't understand what projecting is.

I don't actually care what you support or not but you belong to a communist Union that support Hillary for president financially. Meanwhile you accuse Midnight rambler of being a communist. That is projection, not to mention hypocritical. Accusing me of projection while you do it yourself is also projection.

You got yourself a double whammy there idiot!

I am sorry you are so arrogantly ignorant. That's why you don't have any friends.

You stupid fuck!

Sincerely!
Why thank you for that bit of information.
However, I think people realize what projection is and really don't appreciate you insulting their intelligence with your version.

You can say what ever it is you want to say about unions. You're a foreigner after all....you're opinion doesn't really...how do I say it?
I recall people walking out the door when you come around.
Calling out Midnight for stepping on America and shoving his soviet propaganda isn't projection when I'm just reciting what he already has announced to GSUS..
Neither you, midnight or your other half wit friend palani combined haven't been able to get views like I do. This thread is just over 20 pages long with over 1000 views. You twits haven't been able to do that!
I think that speaks for itself how popular I am. If I was a betting man I'd put money on it that what I say on here is what they are wanting to say themselves but don't for reasons of their own.

So you really aren't anybody to begin with except a foreigner who sides with the clueless and deceptive.

[Joshua01]

No one here likes you! ;D

Obviously you don't understand what projecting is.

I don't actually care what you support or not but you belong to a communist Union that support Hillary for president financially. Meanwhile you accuse Midnight rambler of being a communist. That is projection, not to mention hypocritical. Accusing me of projection while you do it yourself is also projection.

You got yourself a double whammy there idiot!

I am sorry you are so arrogantly ignorant. That's why you don't have any friends.

You stupid fuck!

Sincerely!

7th speaks with the anger of the "Lord' in his heart. My dear late friend George Carlin said it best:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsPAtLQV2ik

[Cebu_4_2]

This thread is just over 20 pages long with over 1000 views. You twits haven't been able to do that!


20 pages? This is page 6 here.

[7th trump]

20 pages? This is page 6 here.

My bad..you're correct.
6 pages and over a 1000 hits

[7th trump]

7th speaks with the anger of the "Lord' in his heart. My dear late friend George Carlin said it best:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsPAtLQV2ik??.

[7th trump]

21 pages for this thread.

[monty]

209 posts in this thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[midnight rambler]

7th speaks with the anger of the "Lord' in his heart. My dear late friend George Carlin said it best:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsPAtLQV2ik

That sad, pathetic, little dung beetle's god Satan is a very hateful god. Satan aka 'the accuser'.

[palani]

209 posts in this thread.
The universe being a symmetrical place ... I am convinced there are 209 post holes somewhere to accommodate a like number of posts.

[7th trump]

That sad, pathetic, little dung beetle's god Satan is a very hateful god. Satan aka 'the accuser'.

You hate America like you keep saying.
Call illegal mexicans your assistants....face it you're one of those cheap greedy bastards.
And you continue to inject all this soviet stuff...well you were until I kept hounding you for it!

[Neuro]

I think that speaks for itself how popular I am. If I was a betting man I'd put money on it that what I say on here is what they are wanting to say themselves but don't for reasons of their own.
Pure comedy gold! Wonderfully ludicrous ridiculous delusional excuse of a man you are. LMAO ;D

[midnight rambler]

The funny part is I seriously doubt any of my assistants have ever visited Mexico. I'll have to ask 'em. I know for certain they don't speak Spanish. lol

[7th trump]

The funny part is I seriously doubt any of my assistants have ever visited Mexico. I'll have to ask 'em. I know for certain they don't speak Spanish. lol

Are they employees or self employed?
You have a habit of not exactly telling the truth.

[Joshua01]

http://i.imgur.com/DKJhx9l.gif

[Joshua01]

??.

Which part don't you understand, the words or the pictures?

[midnight rambler]

Are they employees or self employed?
You have a habit of not exactly telling the truth.

A question only a dyed-in-the-wool Satan worshiping statist would ask. lol

[7th trump]

A question only a dyed-in-the-wool Satan worshiping statist would ask. lol

No not really moron...just a simple question.
I suspect you'll be like palani and not answer.

its ok...gsus'ers will eventually think you have something to hide and the distrust will catch up with you.

[monty]

Publius Huldah on the Convention of States:

When the feds violate the Constitution, should we blame the Constitution? (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2021/03/21/when-the-feds-violate-the-constitution-should-we-blame-the-constitution/)

By Publius Huldah

In Rob Natelson’s paper [link (https://www.theepochtimes.com/author-robert-g-natelson)], “The Solution is a Convention of the States”, he makes claims about what our Framers said is the purpose of amendments to our Constitution which are not true. He also gives false assurances about the safety of a convention called by Congress under Article V of the Constitution.

At the outset, we should note that the title of Natelson’s paper incorporates a stratagem which creates the false belief that the States control the convention. The belief is false because the convention provided for by Art. V of the Constitution is a federal convention called by the federal government to perform the federal function of addressing our federal Constitution. It is not a state function; accordingly, the term, “convention of States”, does not appear in Article V. So the “Convention of States movement” (COS), of which Natelson is “senior advisor”, renamed the convention provided for in Article V as a “convention of the States”; 1 and re-defined it as “a convention controlled by State Legislatures”.

Now let’s examine various other claims on which COS builds its case.


1. The fabricated George Mason quote


COS claims that our Framers gave us the convention method of getting amendments so that when the federal government “violate[s] its constitutional limitations”, we can get a convention to “make adjustments to the constitutional text in order to rein in the abuse of power by the federal government.” Or, in plain English, when the feds violate the Constitution, the solution is a convention to amend the Constitution.

But our Framers didn’t say that. The falsity and absurdity of COS’s claim is exposed here (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/how-to-get-a-new-constitution-under-the-pretext-of-proposing-amendments.pdf). What our Framers actually said is that the purpose of amendments is to correct defects in the Constitution. And theyrecognized that the purpose of a convention is to get another Constitution. James Madison warned that those who secretly want to get rid of our Constitution would push for a convention under the pretext of getting amendments.


2. Natelson’s claims re using amendments to “overrule bad Supreme Court decisions” & “restrain federal power”


Natelson admits that the Framers said we can use amendments to correct defects in the Constitution; but then muddles up what the Framers actually said with what they never said, thereby seemingly legitimizing his misleading claim that the Framers envisioned that we could use amendments to “overrule bad Supreme Court decisions” and “restrain federal power”.
As an example of a “bad” Supreme Court decision, Natelson claims that “n early 1795, the States ratified the 11th Amendment to reverse an overreaching Supreme Court decision”.

The decision he is referring to is Chisholm v. Georgia (1793) [link (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/2/419)]; and what he says about it isn’t true. What Chisholm actually stands for is this: Our Constitution originally delegated to federal courts the power to hear cases “between a State and Citizens of another State” (Art. III, §2, cl.1). But when a Citizen of South Carolina sued the State of Georgia, States were outraged! Georgia sued. In Chisholm, the Supreme Court decided the case in accordance with the Constitution and held that Chisholm could maintain his suit.

But the States didn’t want Citizens of other States suing them. So the States ratified the 11th Amendment which took away from the federal courts the constitutional authority to hear cases filed by a Citizen against another State. So the 11th Amendment illustrates what our Framers actually said is the purpose of amendments: to fix defects in the Constitution.
Natelson also claims that our Framers said we could use amendments to “restrain federal power” when the federal government “exceeded and abused its powers”.

Again, Natelson muddles up the true and the false when he fails to distinguish between usurpations of undelegated powers and abuses of delegated powers.

No Framer said that amendments could be used to restrain usurpations of powers not delegated. And in Federalist No. 49 (http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed49.htm) (last para) James Madison says the opposite. He warns against another convention and says, “occasional appeals to the people [a convention] would be neither a proper nor an effectual provision” for restraining the federal government within its legal powers.

But when the federal government abuses a delegated power, an amendment could be appropriate. Here’s an example: the Tariff Act of 1828 was constitutional since tariffs are authorized by Art. I, §8, cl. 1. But it was abusive because it benefited infant industries in the Northeast at the expense of the Southern States. So what’s the remedy for such abuse of delegated power? Article I, §8, cl. 1 could be amended to say that Congress may impose tariffs only to raise revenue to carry out the enumerated powers; and may not impose tariffs in order to benefit one section of the Country at the expense of other sections.


3. Natelson’s proposed “corrective reforms” to the Constitution


Natelson says he wants a convention to get a balanced budget amendment (BBA); to curb “undemocratic and unfair” regulations; to reverse “liberal-activist Supreme Court decisions”; to impose term limits; and get other amendments “to restrain federal power”.

But as anyone who has read it knows, our Constitution already limits the federal government to a handful of enumerated powers. The powers are listed here. (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/chart-showing-federal-structure-with-meme-april-2019.pdf)The categories of cases federal courts are authorized to hear are listed at Art. III, §2, clause 1. All the problems of which COS and Natelson complain are the result of violations by the federal government of the existing constitutional limitations on their powers – and the States’ acquiesce in such violations!

Balanced Budget Amendment: Our Constitution already limits federal spending to the enumerated powers. But for 100 years, everyone has ignored the existing limits on federal spending. A BBA would replace the existing enumerated powers limitation on federal spending and create a new constitutional authority to spend on whatever the President or Congress put into the budget! A BBA thus legalizes spending which is now unconstitutional as outside the scope of the enumerated powers, and transforms the federal government into one which has constitutional authority over whatever Congress decides to spend money on.

Federal Regulations: Article I, §1 vests all lawmaking powers in Congress. So all regulations issued by federal executive agencies which purport to apply to the Country at Large are unconstitutional as in violation of Art. I, §1; and as outside the scope of the enumerated powers. An amendment such as Natelson proposes is a grant of constitutional power to federal executive agencies to make Laws.

Supreme Court Opinions: This (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2019/06/30/how-states-can-man-up-and-stop-abortion/) shows why Roe v. Wade is unconstitutional. This (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/religious-freedom/)shows why the opinions banning Christian speech in the public square are unconstitutional. The remedy our Framers advised for such usurpations is impeachment and removal from the Bench (Federalist No. 81 (https://foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed81.htm), 8th para), and nullification by the States of unconstitutional opinions [link (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2015/05/03/nullification-the-original-right-of-self-defense/)].
Natelson cannot produce any writing from a Framer which says that when the Supreme Court violates the Constitution, the remedy is to amend the Constitution. Our Framers were not silly men. And what would such an amendment as Natelson proposes say? That federal judges must obey the Constitution? Article VI already requires that. Does Natelson propose amendments which list the subjects on which federal courts may [I]not act? But Art. III, §2, cl. 1 already lists the kinds of cases they may hear. But we ignore those existing limitations.

Term limits amendment: If we learned anything from the last election, it should be that we will not in the foreseeable future have an honest federal election. With H.R.1, Congress is likely to attempt to “legalize” the unconstitutional shenanigans which enabled the theft of the last election.So your vote won’t matter!

But even if we had honest federal elections, consider this: As you decrease the powers of elected members of Congress by making them transient beings – you increase the powers of the “deep state”. With term limits, elected members of Congress would become like train cars passing in the night – the power would be solidified in the nameless, faceless, un-elected bureaucrats who infest the Executive Branch.

Anyone who analyzes the amendments proposed by COS and their allies can see that their amendments increase the powers of the federal government by delegating powers already usurped, granting new powers, or stripping States of their existing powers. See: ‘Mark Levin’s “Liberty” Amendments: Legalizing Tyranny’ [link (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2014/04/25/mark-levins-liberty-amendments-legalizing-tyranny/)]; ‘COS Project’s “simulated convention” dog and pony show and what they did there’ [link (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2018/01/14/cos-projects-simulated-convention-dog-and-pony-show-and-what-they-did-there/)], & ‘The “Regulation Freedom” Amendment and Daniel Webster’ [link (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/category/regulation-freedom-amendment/)].


4. Amendments to “prevent federal abuse” can backfire!


When amendments correct defects in the Constitution, they are clearly a good thing. The 12th & 13th Amendments, like the 11th Amendment, corrected defects in the Constitution. Section 1 of the 14th Amendment extended Citizenship to the freed slaves and provided constitutional authority for the much needed federal Civil Rights Act of 1866.

But amendments added to prevent federal abuses backfired. In Federalist No. 84 (http://foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed84.htm)(10th para), Alexander Hamilton warned against adding a Bill of Rights to our Constitution. Under a Constitution of enumerated powers, the government may lawfully do only what the Constitution permits it to do. So
“…why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? … it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretense for claiming that power...” [emphasis mine]


But Hamilton’s warnings were brushed aside.

Beginning in the 1920s, Justices on the Supreme Court – who were “disposed to usurp” – fabricated a doctrine under which they claimed that §1 of the 14thAmendment “incorporated” various parts of the first 8 Amendments so that those Amendments restricted the States! This how the Supreme Court usurped power to dictate how the States must apply the Bill of Rights. As shown here (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/religious-freedom/) (at 12. & endnote 4), this is the theory the Supreme Court used to ban Christian speech from the public schools and County courthouse lawns.

Throughout the years, the Supreme Court has extended its “incorporation doctrine” to dictate to the States how they must apply the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8thAmendments [link (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/incorporation_doctrine)].

Furthermore: Amendments usher in implementing federal statutes and executive agency regulations – and judicial power over the subject of the Amendment becomes vested in the federal courts. Article III, §2, cl.1, says, “The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases … arising under this Constitution …”

Beware of what you ask for.


5. Natelson’s assurances that a convention would consist of “state delegations” sent “to propose pre-specified amendments” are false and reckless in the extreme 2


Natelson presents nothing to support his assurances. He can’t because his assurances are contradicted by the Constitution; and by the federal “amendments” convention of 1787, which is our sole historical precedent for a federal convention called by a Congress to address our federal Constitution.

Article V, US Constit., says:
“The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing amendments…”


Article I, §8, last clause, US Constit., says Congress shall have the Power…

“To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.” .


So [I]Congress calls the convention and makes the laws necessary and proper to organize the convention.

The April 11, 2014 Report of the Congressional Research Service (http://caavc.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/crs-report-4-11-2014-1.pdf) [link (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/crs-report.pdf)]shows that Congress recognizes that Article V grants to Congress exclusive authority to set up a convention:
“Second, While the Constitution is silent on the mechanics of an Article V convention, Congress has traditionally laid claim to broad responsibilities in connection with a convention, including (1) receiving, judging, and recording state applications;…(4) determining the number and selection process for its delegates…” (page 4).


So Congress has the power to receive and judge the applications; how to count the applications, which ones to count, whether to aggregate the different forms of applications, etc.

Nothing in the Constitution permits State Legislatures to dictate amendments to be considered. The convention is the deliberative body.

Nothing in the Constitution requires Congress to permit States to select Delegates. Congress – the same Congress which Natelson tells us is “abusive”, “mendacious” and “revels in its power”- has the power to select the Delegates. Congress may appoint themselves as Delegates. 3


6. The People have the power to take down and set up governments


The push for an Article V convention is a hoax. The Globalists who stole the Election want a new Constitution. They are using “getting amendments to rein in the federal government” as a pretext for getting a convention where a new Constitution is sure to be imposed. Madison expressly warned of this stratagem [link (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/how-to-get-a-new-constitution-under-the-pretext-of-proposing-amendments.pdf)].

Our Declaration of Independence is part of the “[I]Organic Law” of our Land. It recognizes that The People take down and create governments. When Delegates meet in convention to address a Constitution, they are the Sovereign Representatives of The People. They cannot be controlled by the “creatures” of Constitutions previously ratified by the People [link (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/what-the-convention-lobby-isnt-telling-you-about-our-declaration-of-independence-sep.-2020.pdf)].

In Federalist No. 40 (https://foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed40.htm) (15th para) James Madison invoked the “transcendent and precious right” of a people to throw off one government and set up a new one as justification for the Delegates to the federal “amendments” convention of 1787 ignoring their instructions to propose amendments to the Articles of Confederation, and instead writing a new Constitution with its own easier mode of ratification.

Accordingly, even if the “abusive” and “mendacious” Congress doesn’t “revel in its power” to appoint Delegates, but graciously permits States to select Delegates, State Legislatures have no competent authority to control Delegates at a convention called by Congress pursuant to Article V. The Delegates, as Sovereign Representatives of The People, have the power to eliminate the federal & state governments! 4

Heed the warning of the great statesman Daniel Webster:
“The politician that undertakes to improve a Constitution with as little thought as a farmer sets about mending his plow, is no master of his trade. If that Constitution be a systematic one, if it be a free one, its parts are so necessarily connected that an alteration in one will work an alteration in all; and this cobbler, however pure and honest his intentions, will, in the end, find that what came to his hands a fair and lovely fabric goes from them a miserable piece of patchwork.” Daniel Webster, 4th of July Oration, 1802 (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?q1=plow;id=njp.32101028187985;view=image;start= 1;sz=10;page=root;size=100;seq=1).


Endnotes:
1 In a speech Natelson gave on Sep. 16, 2010 [link (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/natelsons-speech-on-using-term-cos.pdf)at top of p. 2], he said he would no longer call what he wanted a “constitutional convention”; but would ‘put our concepts on “reset” ’ and henceforth call it a “convention of states”.

2 Noted conservative constitutional litigators and law professors William Olsen and Herb Titus have already recognized that COS’s “false assurances” are “reckless in the extreme” [link (https://publiushuldah.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/william-olson-herb-titus-on-dangerous-proposal-of-an-article-v-convention.pdf)].

3 Page 40 of the CRS Report says it’s been recognized that there doesn’t seem to be any “… constitutional prohibition against [U.S.] Senators and Representatives serving as delegates to an Article V Convention..”

4 The proposed Constitution for the Newstates of America [link (http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/concon/newstates.htm)] does just that. Article XII, §1 provides for ratification by a referendum called by the President. Do YOU trust the voting machines?

[ziero0]

"I don't understand"

equals

"I don't consent"

[monty]

https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/category/article-v-convention/ (https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/category/article-v-convention/)



http://youtu.be/C7eGKN2nfRs

https://youtu.be/C7eGKN2nfRs



Joanna Martin, J.D. (Publius Huldah) warns of what’s really behind the push for an Article V convention: to move us into the New World Order or impose a Communist dictatorship.
Presented to the Buncombe County Republican Party in Asheville, North Carolina on May 25, 2021.
Here are the Exhibits referred to in the presentation:
https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/category/article-v-convention/

she has copy protected her website.

[monty]

Joanna Martin J.D. posted on her blog Publius Huldah that a COS Mark Mekler board member drafted a new constitution imposing gun control


Mark Meckler’s “COS” Board Member has drafted new Constitution which imposes gun control


https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2021/12/18/mark-mecklers-cos-board-member-has-drafted-new-constitution-which-imposes-gun-control/

This is the content of her email

By Publius Huldah (Joanna Martin, J.D.)

Our Framers understood that a free State cannot exist without an armed and trained populace (i.e, the Militia). Accordingly, they wrote a Constitution which prohibits the federal and State governments from infringing the natural right of the People to keep and bear arms.

Under our Constitution, the federal government has no authority to make any laws whatsoever over the Country at Large restricting the rights of the People to keep and bear arms. Gun control is not an enumerated power. Furthermore, the Second Amendment expressly forbids the federal government from infringing the right of the People (the Militia) to keep and bear arms.

The States are also prohibited from infringing the right of the People to keep and bear arms by Article I, Sec. 8, clauses 15 & 16, US Constitution. Those two clauses provide for the Militia of the Several States; and implicitly prohibit the States from making any laws which would interfere with the arming and training of the Militiamen in their States. 1

Applications for Congress to call a convention under Article V, US Constitution

But various groups, such as Mark Meckler’s Convention of “States” (COS) organizations, have been lobbying State Legislators to pass applications asking Congress to call an Article V Convention.

Whether or not State Legislatures should ask Congress to call an Article V Convention is one of the most important - and contentious - issues of our time. The Delegates to such a convention, as Sovereign Representatives of the People, have the power to throw off the Constitution we have and propose a new Constitution, with a new and easier mode of ratification, which would create a new government. 2

The Pennsylvania Senators Roundtable Discussion

On November 8, 2021, several Pennsylvania Senators conducted a roundtable discussion (https://pasen.wistia.com/medias/rkbijcu4yq) about whether they should pass Mark Meckler’s “COS” application (SR 152 (https://legiscan.com/PA/bill/SR152/2021)) for Congress to call an Article V convention. Mark Meckler and his allies were present in support of SR 152 Firearms Owners Against Crime was present in opposition to SR 152. Gun Owners of America was there also. 3

Much of what Meckler said at the roundtable is not true. But this paper focuses on his comments ridiculing his opponents’ concerns that, if there is an Article V convention, we could lose our existing Right to keep and bear arms.

Meckler showed up at the roundtable decked out in gun garb; and, after dropping names to show his connections with gun rights organizations, proceeded throughout the discussion to preen his commitment to “the Second Amendment”. He ridiculed the warnings that if there is an Article V Convention, Delegates would have the power to impose a new Constitution which, among other horrors, strips us of our Right to keep and bear arms without infringement.

Meckler said that Chuck Cooper, a litigator for the NRA, is on COS’s Legal Advisory Board and has written an open letter saying, “…it’s a ridiculous argument that there could be a runaway convention and we could lose our Second Amendment.” [13:31 - 13:57 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://1)]

A bit later on, Meckler said:


“…Professor Robbie George at Princeton who is considered the foremost conservative constitutional scholar in America is on our Legal Advisory Board. …[43:02 – 43:25]


So who is Professor Robbie George? And who says he is the foremost conservative constitutional scholar in America?

Robbie George (Robert P. George) was on the National Constitution Center’sConstitution Drafting Project (https://constitutioncenter.org/debate/special-projects/constitution-drafting-project). The National Constitution Center (https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/national-constitution-center) is a quasi-official branch of the federal government.

Robbie George and three others have drafted a new Constitution which severely restricts the Right of the People to keep and bear arms! His new Constitution (https://constitutioncenter.org/debate/special-projects/constitution-drafting-project/the-conservative-constitution) says at Article I, Sec. 12, clause 7:


“Neither the States nor the United State [sic] shall make or enforce any law infringing the right to keep and bear arms of the sort ordinarily used for self-defense or recreational purposes, provided that States, and the United States in places subject to its general regulatory authority, may enact and enforce reasonable regulations on the bearing of arms, and the keeping of arms by persons determined, with due process, to be dangerous to themselves or others.”


So Robbie George’s new Constitution:



authorizes the state and federal governments to ban the possession of all armsunless they are “ordinarily used for self-defense or recreational purposes”. Who will decide what arms are “ordinarily” used for self-defense or recreation? The governments will decide.
authorizes the state governments and the federal government (in those places subject to its “general regulatory authority”), to enact and enforce “reasonable regulations” on the bearing of those arms they permit us to have. What’s a “reasonable” regulation? The governments will decide; and,
authorizes the state and federal governments to strip us of our right to keep even those arms “ordinarily used for self-defense”, if someone in the government (presumably a judge) decides you are a danger to yourself or others.

We live in a time when Christians who read the Bible; People who read the Constitution; and Moms who speak out at School Board meetings against pornography in the schools, mask mandates, or the teaching of critical race theory, are labeled “domestic terrorists”. Should “domestic terrorists” be allowed to keep and bear arms? Of course not- they are dangerous!

At the roundtable, John Velleco of Gun Owners of America said:


“The questions that we’re dealing with on this is how will this [Meckler’s “COS” application SR 152] impact the Second Amendment? Because that’s, as an organization, that’s all we care about. … So we need to determine if this is something that seriously could impact in a negative way the Second Amendment, then we are compelled to engage 100%. … our bigger issues in Pennsylvania are passing constitutional carry.” [1:07:05 – 1:07:51 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://3)]


Yet even though Meckler’s Board Member Robbie George had already participated in the drafting of a new Constitution which imposes gun control; and thereby would rescind the Second Amendment, Meckler responded:


“And I will tell you there are 5 Million people in this country … that are signed up for convention of states. Right here, there are 90,000 in this state. 90,000!

The question was asked, will this help pass constitutional carry? The answer is hell yes, it will! Because right now, our activists are very angry with gun rights organizations in this state. And they’ll not support anything that these gun organizations are doing, because they’re now sworn enemies on Article V. … But I will say, on Kim Stolfer’s organization, they should be working with these organizations. Every one of those 90,000 should be signed up with these organizations and members of these organizations fighting for everything they [the gun organizations] want.” [1:21:21 – 1:22:05 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://4)]


So Meckler, who postures as a “Second Amendment guy” [13:31-13:57 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://5)] , threatened that unless Kim Stolfer supports Meckler’s SR 152 application for a convention, Mecker’s alleged 90,000 supporters in Pennsylvania 4will not support anything Kim Stolfer’s gun rights organization does!

Look behind the Curtain

This push for an Article V Convention is the most vicious bait and switch ever perpetrated on the American People. It’s all about getting a new Constitution under the pretext of getting amendments. 5 If Congress calls an Article V convention, Robbie George’s proposed Constitution, or another just as tyrannical, can be proposed. 6 And since any new Constitution will have its own new mode of ratification (such as a national referendum), it’s sure to be approved.

The solution to our political and economic problems is to read and enforce the Constitution we already have. States and local governments and individual Citizens can take a giant step forward by not taking federal funds to participate in unconstitutional federal programs.

And rescind your States’ existing applications for an Article V convention! It doesn’t matter what the ostensible purpose of a convention is, as set forth in a State’s applications. Once the Convention assembles, the Delegates can do whatever they want including approving the Constitution Robbie George participated in drafting, or another Constitution which will also legalize the tyranny which is taking over our Country.

We are to fight tyranny by resisting it (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F04%2Fnullification-the-original-right-of-self-defense-1.pdf&sr=1&signature=e68aefc45df0b1fa24e912db331a03ec&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJieSByZXNpc3RpbmcgaXQiLCJfZHIiOm51bGwsI l9kbCI6Ilwvd3AtYWRtaW5cL3Bvc3QucGhwIiwiX2VuIjoid3B jb21fZW1haWxfY2xpY2siLCJfdHMiOjE2Mzk4NDE5NTYyOTIsI mJyb3dzZXJfdHlwZSI6InBocC1hZ2VudCIsIl9hdWEiOiJ3cGN vbS10cmFja3MtY2xpZW50LXYwLjMiLCJfdWwiOm51bGwsImJsb 2dfdHoiOiItNSIsInVzZXJfbGFuZyI6bnVsbH0&_z=z); not by legalizing it.

Endnotes:

1 With the Militia Act of 1792 (https://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=394), Congress required all able-bodied male Citizens in the Country (with a few exceptions) between the ages of 18 and under 45 to buy a rifle, bayonet, ammo & ammo pouch, and report to their local Militia Unit for training. States may not lawfully do anything to interfere with this constitutional grant of power to Congress.

2 This is shown in these flyers:



How to get a new Constitution under the pretext of proposing amendments (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F01%2Fhow-to-get-a-new-constitution-under-the-pretext-of-proposing-amendments.pdf&sr=1&signature=40d3b284c5ec906c570502f9601104e5&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJIb3cgdG8gZ2V0IGEgbmV3IENvbnN0aXR1dGlvb iB1bmRlciB0aGUgcHJldGV4dCBvZiBwcm9wb3NpbmcgYW1lbmR tZW50cyIsIl9kciI6bnVsbCwiX2RsIjoiXC93cC1hZG1pblwvc G9zdC5waHAiLCJfZW4iOiJ3cGNvbV9lbWFpbF9jbGljayIsIl9 0cyI6MTYzOTg0MTk1NjI5MywiYnJvd3Nlcl90eXBlIjoicGhwL WFnZW50IiwiX2F1YSI6IndwY29tLXRyYWNrcy1jbGllbnQtdjA uMyIsIl91bCI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ190eiI6Ii01IiwidXNlcl9sY W5nIjpudWxsfQ=&_z=z);
The US Constitution & Congressional Research Service (CRS) Report show that COS’s assurances that State Legislatures will control a convention are false and reckless (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F06%2Fcrs-report-and-constitution-contradict-coss-false-and-reckless-assurances.pdf&sr=1&signature=b2b49a8d8f83fc37783437f5aa60eb3b&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJDT1NcdTIwMTlzIGFzc3VyYW5jZXMgdGhhdCBTd GF0ZSBMZWdpc2xhdHVyZXMgd2lsbCBjb250cm9sIGEgY29udmV udGlvbiBhcmUgZmFsc2UgYW5kIHJlY2tsZXNzIiwiX2RyIjpud WxsLCJfZGwiOiJcL3dwLWFkbWluXC9wb3N0LnBocCIsIl9lbiI 6IndwY29tX2VtYWlsX2NsaWNrIiwiX3RzIjoxNjM5ODQxOTU2M jkzLCJicm93c2VyX3R5cGUiOiJwaHAtYWdlbnQiLCJfYXVhIjo id3Bjb20tdHJhY2tzLWNsaWVudC12MC4zIiwiX3VsIjpudWxsL CJibG9nX3R6IjoiLTUiLCJ1c2VyX2xhbmciOm51bGx9&_z=z). So what is Meckler’s response? To snicker and belittle the CRS! [1:14:35 – 1:14:42 (http://gold-silver.us/forum/x-apple-data-detectors://6)]; and
What the Convention Lobby isn’t telling you about our Declaration of Independence (https://public-apiwordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2020%2F09%2Fwhat-the-convention-lobby-isnt-telling-you-about-our-declaration-of-independence-sep.-2020.pdf&sr=1&signature=01a45d1c93d55f9c4858c0044a29ab8d&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJXaGF0IHRoZSBDb252ZW50aW9uIExvYmJ5IGlzb lx1MjAxOXQgdGVsbGluZyB5b3UgYWJvdXQgb3VyIERlY2xhcmF 0aW9uIG9mIEluZGVwZW5kZW5jZSIsIl9kciI6bnVsbCwiX2RsI joiXC93cC1hZG1pblwvcG9zdC5waHAiLCJfZW4iOiJ3cGNvbV9 lbWFpbF9jbGljayIsIl90cyI6MTYzOTg0MTk1NjI5MywiYnJvd 3Nlcl90eXBlIjoicGhwLWFnZW50IiwiX2F1YSI6IndwY29tLXR yYWNrcy1jbGllbnQtdjAuMyIsIl91bCI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ190e iI6Ii01IiwidXNlcl9sYW5nIjpudWxsfQ=&_z=z).

3 These are two large gun rights organizations. John Velleco and Val Finnell appeared for GOA (https://www.gunowners.org/); Kim Stolfer of Pennsylvania appeared for Firearms Owners Against Crime (https://foac-pac.org/).

4 It should be enlightening to ask Meckler to provide documentation of his claim to have 90,000 supporters in Pennsylvania. Legislators in other States have looked behind the curtain and found “COS” claims of support to be false: See Phony Petitions and Polls (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F12%2Fphony-petitions-polls.pdf&sr=1&signature=9c3826c522d709d5cf91f345d03ea024&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJQaG9ueSBQZXRpdGlvbnMgYW5kIFBvbGxzIiwiX 2RyIjpudWxsLCJfZGwiOiJcL3dwLWFkbWluXC9wb3N0LnBocCI sIl9lbiI6IndwY29tX2VtYWlsX2NsaWNrIiwiX3RzIjoxNjM5O DQxOTU2MjkzLCJicm93c2VyX3R5cGUiOiJwaHAtYWdlbnQiLCJ fYXVhIjoid3Bjb20tdHJhY2tzLWNsaWVudC12MC4zIiwiX3VsI jpudWxsLCJibG9nX3R6IjoiLTUiLCJ1c2VyX2xhbmciOm51bGx 9&_z=z).

5 James Madison expressly warned of this stratagem: See this (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F01%2Fhow-to-get-a-new-constitution-under-the-pretext-of-proposing-amendments.pdf&sr=1&signature=40d3b284c5ec906c570502f9601104e5&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJ0aGlzIiwiX2RyIjpudWxsLCJfZGwiOiJcL3dwL WFkbWluXC9wb3N0LnBocCIsIl9lbiI6IndwY29tX2VtYWlsX2N saWNrIiwiX3RzIjoxNjM5ODQxOTU2MjkzLCJicm93c2VyX3R5c GUiOiJwaHAtYWdlbnQiLCJfYXVhIjoid3Bjb20tdHJhY2tzLWN saWVudC12MC4zIiwiX3VsIjpudWxsLCJibG9nX3R6IjoiLTUiL CJ1c2VyX2xhbmciOm51bGx9&_z=z) flyer at footnote 2.

6 Altogether, the National Constitution Center has three proposed new Constitutions (https://constitutioncenter.org/debate/special-projects/constitution-drafting-project). All of them transfer massive new powers to the new federal government.

Additional proposed Constitutions are discussed here (https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpubliushuldah.files.word press.com%2F2021%2F01%2Fhow-to-get-a-new-constitution-under-the-pretext-of-proposing-amendments.pdf&sr=1&signature=40d3b284c5ec906c570502f9601104e5&user=906fc2db9596237fcfb671f3735db848&_e=eyJlcnJvciI6bnVsbCwiYmxvZ19pZCI6ODIzODM2MSwiYmx vZ19sYW5nIjoiZW4iLCJzaXRlX2lkX2xhYmVsIjoid3Bjb20iL CJlbWFpbF9uYW1lIjoiZW1haWxfc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uIiwiX3V 0IjoiYW5vbiIsIl91aSI6IjkwNmZjMmRiOTU5NjIzN2ZjZmI2N zFmMzczNWRiODQ4IiwiZW1haWxfaWQiOiJiMjFmM2M1MTE4ZDM wNzUzZjU3MDNmOTZmMzU0NjQ1YSIsImRhdGVfc2VudCI6IjIwM jEtMTItMTgiLCJkb21haW4iOiJwdWJsaXVzaHVsZGFoLndvcmR wcmVzcy5jb20iLCJmcmVxdWVuY3kiOiIwIiwiZGlnZXN0IjoiM CIsImhhc19odG1sIjoiMSIsImxvY2FsZSI6ImVuIiwiYW5jaG9 yX3RleHQiOiJoZXJlIiwiX2RyIjpudWxsLCJfZGwiOiJcL3dwL WFkbWluXC9wb3N0LnBocCIsIl9lbiI6IndwY29tX2VtYWlsX2N saWNrIiwiX3RzIjoxNjM5ODQxOTU2Mjk0LCJicm93c2VyX3R5c GUiOiJwaHAtYWdlbnQiLCJfYXVhIjoid3Bjb20tdHJhY2tzLWN saWVudC12MC4zIiwiX3VsIjpudWxsLCJibG9nX3R6IjoiLTUiL CJ1c2VyX2xhbmciOm51bGx9&_z=z). One of them, the Constitution for the Newstates of America (http://wwwsweetliberty.org/issues/concon/newstates.htm), was produced some 60 years ago [and factions have been pushing for an Article V convention ever since]. Under the Newstates Constitution, the States are dissolved and replaced by regional governments answerable to the new national government. Article I, Part B., Sec. 8 provides that the People are to be disarmed. Article XII, Sec. 1, provides for ratification by a national referendum - so whoever controls the voting machines will determine the outcome.






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