Why you should never get involved with an active shooter situation

[midnight rambler]

or third party encounter UNLESS your own life or loved ones lives are in danger.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQOHBSuY7TM

[Cebu_4_2]

She holds the gun dead right, not like some homie. Pre planned at least.

[hoarder]

Why you should never get involved with an active shooter situation or third party encounter UNLESS your own life or loved ones lives are in danger.I don't agree. By your logic, I should sit with my arms crossed while I watch someone shoot you in the back even though the shooter has not seen me yet.

Like everything in life, the devil is in the details.
One should consider the variables and act accordingly, which the CCW in this video did not do. Instead he made a fatal assumption.

[Ares]

I don't agree. By your logic, I should sit with my arms crossed while I watch someone shoot you in the back even though the shooter has not seen me yet.

Like everything in life, the devil is in the details.
One should consider the variables and act accordingly, which the CCW in this video did not do. Instead he made a fatal assumption.

Agreed, the CCW holder had tunnel vision (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) but in this case it did not serve him well as he did not notice the woman holding a handgun because he was so focused on the guy going on a shooting spree.

[midnight rambler]

By your logic, I should sit with my arms crossed while I watch someone shoot you in the back even though the shooter has not seen me yet.


Apparently you've never been on the two-way range and as a result of your lack of experience, or even input from those who have been there, you speculate about the dynamics of such a situation. The one thing anyone can count on for sure is that no two situations are alike. To suggest 'sit with arms crossed' is just asinine. OTOH getting involved with the situation could invite friendly fire from any LEO arriving on scene who have no idea who the bad guys are. The prudent survive to fight another day. If that were me and I had a CCW I would have exfiltrated at the earliest possible opportunity once the shooter progressed out of my immediate vicinity. Our dead hero missed his opportunity by not immediately engaging shooter and accomplice at first shot - imo. There's the quick and there's the dead. Also imo our dead hero lacked the training and seasoned practical experience* to attempt what he did. YMMV

*as only one glaring example of the successful application of training and seasoned practical experience is the shooter who killed the Dallas cops, now HE comprehended the importance of fire and maneuver while under stressfire

[midnight rambler]

Agreed, the CCW holder had tunnel vision (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) but in this case it did not serve him wel as he did not notice the woman holding a handgun because he was so focused on the guy going on a shooting spree.

Again, imo he was ill-prepared for what went down.

[Jewboo]

OTOH getting involved with the situation could invite friendly fire from any LEO arriving on scene who have no idea who the bad guys are. The prudent survive to fight another day. If that were me and I had a CCW I would have exfiltrated at the earliest possible opportunity once the shooter progressed out of my immediate vicinity.



I agree with MR. Here in Idaho both open and concealed carry is now legal without a license. A bunch of untrained tards can start shooting each other at Wal-Mart. Nobody will know you are the "good guy" waving your gun in the store...

[Ares]

Again, imo he was ill-prepared for what went down.

Right, but to say you should NEVER get involve in an active shooter situation is also ill advised from an all or nothing standpoint. What he really should of said is that in this situation the CCW should not of gotten involved, and he would of been right. But hindsight being 20 / 20, he should of assessed the situation better and paid attention to the woman who was not running away.

[midnight rambler]

Right, but to say you should NEVER get involve in an active shooter situation is also ill advised from an all or nothing standpoint. What he really should of said is that in this situation the CCW should not of gotten involved, and he would of been right. But hindsight being 20 / 20, he should of assessed the situation better and paid attention to the woman who was not running away.

Right, but one's CHECKLIST should begin with Rule 1: "Is it appropriate for me to get involved in this situation in light of my training and experience or lack thereof?"

Just because one has strapped on a pistol does not make one a pistolero.

[Ares]

Right, but one's CHECKLIST should begin with Rule 1: "Is it appropriate for me to get involved in this situation in light of my training and experience or lack thereof?"

Just because one has strapped on a pistol does not make one a pistolero.

Very true, being a CCW myself I most likely would not of gotten involved unless my family or I were being threatened. Then it would of been purely self defense.

[midnight rambler]

Very true, being a CCW myself I most likely would not of gotten involved unless my family or I were being threatened. Then it would of been purely self defense.

IMO there's something about having experienced the two-way range that instills rapid, prudent decision making skills under stress. I'm thinking that hardcore practical training can make up for that lack of experience. The typical CCW licensing training will never get anyone to that point. Realistically, much cop training fails at that.

[madfranks]

Lots of good points being made in this thread. Probably like most here, I've tried imagining myself how I would respond if I found myself in an active shooter scenario, but because like MR stated above, every scenario is different, there's no way to formulate a plan for something like this. The best I would be able to do is actively assess the situation and pray that I would act in the most proper way.

I don't condemn the man who got killed trying to stop the shooting though; he wanted to save the day but didn't properly assess the situation.

[midnight rambler]

Worth noting is that our dead hero failed to immediately engage* and instead went into stalking mode (with tunnel vision).

*I get the impression that he lacked the hardcore training for an immediate, direct engagement of someone with those sort of intentions

[Jewboo]

I don't condemn the man who got killed trying to stop the shooting though; he wanted to save the day but didn't properly assess the situation.



http://www.thlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/South-Park-Respect-my-Authority-mug.jpg

I've had my concealed weapon license for a decade. We need to remind ourselves that a concealed weapon license is NOT a police badge.

[Ares]

http://www.thlog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/South-Park-Respect-my-Authority-mug.jpg

I've had my concealed weapon license for a decade. We need to remind ourselves that a concealed weapon license is NOT a police badge.




True, depending on the state you are in, you could be charged for actually shooting the suspect.

[Jewboo]

True, depending on the state you are in, you could be charged for actually shooting the suspect.



These days actual uniformed Police Officers are being charged with shooting the suspect.

[Half Sense]

CCW went chasing after the threat and assumed it was the only threat. Bad tactics.

If somebody's banging on my front door at 3 AM, I go check the back door first.

[madfranks]

Worth noting is that our dead hero failed to immediately engage* and instead went into stalking mode (with tunnel vision).

*I get the impression that he lacked the hardcore training for an immediate, direct engagement of someone with those sort of intentions

Absolutely, I thought the same thing. You absolutely cannot give up your element of surprise if you're a CCW holder. My level of training is probably average for CCW holders but that's one thing I would never ever do. You make yourself a target (to both friendlies and hostiles) by pulling your weapon out.

[madfranks]

I've had my concealed weapon license for a decade. We need to remind ourselves that a concealed weapon license is NOT a police badge.

Agreed - it's not. I will never forget the first month or so when I started to carry, the immense sense of responsibility I had knowing I was carrying a loaded and lethal weapon on my person everywhere I went. It's not a game, it's life and death.

[cheka.]

OK - cop gets too close to mexican


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QNfcfpu2v8

[vacuum]

After watching this, I'd say these things:

(1) Hang back at a distance and observe whats going on, get in good cover with an escape route, and wait. Only engage when you have all the information and they have none.

(2) Don't reveal that you have a weapon in a public situation until you're ready to pull the trigger. When there are other people around, pulling your weapon out makes you a target for both criminals and police.

(3) A bullet is most effective when traveling from a distance of 18 inches into someone's back.