Lionel Giles translation of Sun Tzu's Art of War

[midnight rambler]

The only time time Napoleon defeated was at Waterloo when he went up against Lord Wellington. Napoleon and Lord Wellington were both students of Master Sun. Reportedly Lord Wellington commented to his aides prior to the battle at Waterloo, "Napoleon, now we shall see who is a better student of Sun Tzu."

My favorite translation, free online -

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html


I. Laying Plans

1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.

2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.

3. The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

4. These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

7. Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.

8. Earth comprises distances, great and small; danger and security; open ground and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

10. By method and discipline are to be understood the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions, the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the control of military expenditure.

11. These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail.

[singular_me]

read a while back that it is a recommended book among wall street stockbrokers

when you look at the world, that makes sense

[midnight rambler]

read a while back that it is a recommended book among wall street stockbrokers

when you look at the world, that makes sense

The reason why is because it's not so much about waging war as it is about human nature and interactions/relationships.

As only one example: The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

[ximmy]

I've read it, it is totally about waging war.

[midnight rambler]

I've read it, it is totally about waging war.

Then I suggest you re-read it until it sinks in.

[ximmy]

I suppose "The Prince" is about looking good. Ridiculous.

[crimethink]

I've read it, it is totally about waging war.

Not merely. It is also a philosophy of life, business, and general strategy. Even if one is a man or woman of peace, it is a good read to understand. Ancient Chinese wisdom, without being a cliche.

[ximmy]

Not merely. It is also a philosophy of life, business, and general strategy. Even if one is a man or woman of peace, it is a good read to understand. Ancient Chinese wisdom, without being a cliche.

Nope, It finds applications in life and dealings with persons. It is fundamentally a war book.

[crimethink]

Nope, It finds applications in life and dealings with persons. It is fundamentally a war book.

Life is struggle. War is unrestrained struggle.

While "selfless cooperation" is an ideal, it is not the norm.

If one wants to effect that ideal, one best fully understands the norm, and, to do that, study of struggle and war is vital.

Sun Tsu makes clear that victory without fighting is best. And a man or woman of peace should appreciate that.

The Prince of Peace conquered the world without fighting.

[ximmy]

Life is struggle. War is unrestrained struggle.

While "selfless cooperation" is an ideal, it is not the norm.

If one wants to effect that ideal, one best fully understands the norm, and, to do that, study of struggle and war is vital.

Sun Tsu makes clear that victory without fighting is best. And a man or woman of peace should appreciate that.

The Prince of Peace conquered the world without fighting.

That's a nice way of saying I was right. Thank you.

[hoarder]

Some people are too good, their morals are so high that they can't think strategically. Because of this condition, they're vulnerable to the treachery of their enemies.
I have tried to get several people to read The Art of War to overcome their weakness and see the world as it really is, rather than how they think it should be.

Human nature has remained unchanged in thousands of years and The Art of War is testament to that.

One liberal friend of mine, who is on the gentle side and is somewhat aware of the Jewish question, stated that he doesn't want to be able to think strategically because he's afraid he will become like those he despises. Maybe it takes a certain kind of strength to understand the ugly side of human nature while refraining from descending into it.

[crimethink]

That's a nice way of saying I was right. Thank you.

Victory without fighting is not limited to warfare, unless you agree that business and life in general is, ipso facto, "warfare."

[crimethink]

Some people are too good, their morals are so high that they can't think strategically. Because of this condition, they're vulnerable to the treachery of their enemies.
I have tried to get several people to read The Art of War to overcome their weakness and see the world as it really is, rather than how they think it should be.

Human nature has remained unchanged in thousands of years and The Art of War is testament to that.

One liberal friend of mine, who is on the gentle side and is somewhat aware of the Jewish question, stated that he doesn't want to be able to think strategically because he's afraid he will become like those he despises. Maybe it takes a certain kind of strength to understand the ugly side of human nature while refraining from descending into it.

Actually, he's afraid his commitment to his beliefs is not strong enough to hold up under pressure.

[midnight rambler]

Not merely. It is also a philosophy of life, business, and general strategy. Even if one is a man or woman of peace, it is a good read to understand. Ancient Chinese wisdom, without being a cliche.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

If you want peace, prepare for war.

[ximmy]

Didn't read Sun Tzu... like a many here claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hkrdYno2E

[crimethink]

Didn't read Sun Tzu... like a many here claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hkrdYno2E

The first instance was an example of defeating one's adversary without fighting.

[ximmy]

The first instance was an example of defeating one's adversary without fighting.


You already said I was right, but thanks a second time.

[singular_me]

the poster surely means human CONDITION(ING)

The Human Nature is very different, Mark Passio has an excellent vid explaining the difference between the two. One wants rulers because one fears freedom, that is the conditioning that one gets... and the more one confuses the 2, the worse it gets. Thousand years of much of the same fallacy. We are so doomed.

governments: you need an elite because humans are animals. Their coercion turns masses into pavlov dogs. Then people want more government solutions. Agenda 21 to the rescue now. LOL

milton friedman's quote is so true, that is why leftism is a deception... all forms of leftism/centralization. Yes equality does have a meaning, the only problem is how to achieve it. You hear it from a top 1% supremacist's mouth. Divide and rule at its finest: lets have the left fighting for equality and the right for unfettered self-interest. In the long run NEITHER is right because they endorse half-truths. The right rejects equality and the left reject capitalism.... total destruction of society is now around the corner... and on the top of that I am called: evil humanist... ;D ;D... give me a break now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuvwVXb0sTU




Human nature has remained unchanged in thousands of years and The Art of War is testament to that. .