Trump's Obamacare update

[StreetsOfGold]

After all the rhetoric about how Trump was going to repeal (and replace? why??) Obamacare, one of the first bills he signed concerning it and he made it better!?!

Right?

WRONG!! It's WORSE!!, FAR WORSE for everyone but you know, he's going to "make America Great"...... again (sigh)

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231780

This is truly ugly stuff folks.


This is the "Obamacare" repeal and replace option that is being peddled in the Senate.


I've read it.


Let me summarize:


For states that wish to keep Obamacare, they can.


For states that do not wish to keep Obamacare, they can "opt out."


The underlying "replacement" is a ROTH HSA, which is the same basic mechanism of a ROTH IRA except that spending is restricted to "authorized" health care services (including health insurance.) All other withdrawals are subject to tax (10%) penalties (much like unauthorized withdrawals from a traditional IRA.) The primary change from existing HSA law is that the existing structure is an adjunct to a health insurance policy. This legislation allows the HSA to fund a health insurance policy.


States that opt out can create their own standards for what constitutes a "legitimate" health insurance plan. This means that plans which are more or less-restrictive than Obamacare policies are authorized in such states and count. So if you don't want a policy that covers pregnancy, for example, you don't have to buy one. If you object to contraception, provided your state allows it, you can buy a policy that doesn't cover that. And so on. Note that none of this would ban a company from offering a coverage and states could require whatever they want.


For states that opt out if you fail to maintain continuous coverage you can be penalized, including being denied entirely due to medical underwriting and it imposes a mandatory penalty (tax) to be paid to Treasury for your refusal to buy a policy if you come back in the future, even if you are healthy. If you maintain continual coverage, however, you cannot be denied nor medically underwritten. This changes the Obamacare requirement by effectively closing the "wait until get very sick, then apply" game but includes a cute "**** you" for those people who opt out, then decide to come back but are not trying to game the system by buying only when sick. In many ways this is worse than the "individual mandate" in that the penalty is on the back end and is not imposed only on those who game the system.


For states that opt out they can default you into a ROTH HSA, which may or may not obtain a subsidy. You can opt out but you will have to do so explicitly.


Subsidies are deposited directly into consumer HSAs, not to the state general funds (or otherwise) and are adjusted for local conditions (as is the case for existing PPACA subsidies, and in a very similar manner.)


Subsidies phase out for MAGI over $90,000 for individuals, and $150,000 for joint returns. Married-filing-separate has a ZERO subsidy -- if you're married, you must file joint to get subsidies. This is a large increase in subsidy phase-out income levels and means that basically anyone in a state that opts out of Obamacare will have full subsidies available up to MAGI $90k. Note that MAGI includes tax-exempt interest and similar income; this is potentially very important for those with substantial non-wage income (as is the case for Obamacare now.)


Imposes a $25,000 penalty per-instance on medical providers who attempt to bill out-of-network charges in emergency circumstances only. However, it does not bar the practice or impose any criminal penalty for this act of financial rape, which means that the effect of this provision is that you'll still get raped and the hospital will add $25,000 to the******amount so as to pay the fine with it! If you think this means the "out of network" emergency problem will get worse YOU ARE RIGHT, IT WILL GET WORSE AND IN A VERY, VERY SEVERE WAY FOR MODEST ISSUES. $25,000 isn't much additional screwing on a $500,000 bill. It is a very large additional screwing on a $20,000 bill! Forcing a victim to pay for his or her own screwing is not only cruel it ought to be considered a capital offense.


Allegedly "requires" providers to post prices in a way the HHS Secretary directs. However, there is no penalty for failure to do so, nor is there any penalty for refusing to honor a quoted price.
There are other technical changes, such as specifying that paying a fee for concierge care (e.g. flat fee per month for access, etc) is a legitimate HSA expense, along with specifying limitations and parameters for the ROTH HSAs (which generally appear to be reasonable.)


There is exactly zero in this bill that addresses:


The cost of medical care. Nowhere is there a penalty for failure to disclose prices or to actually bill at the claimed price. There is no requirement that "what you post as a price is what everyone pays", there is no sanction on the provider for failure to quote a true price, to bill at the quoted price, or if they discriminate for or against any particular person. The "requirement" to post prices is a dead letter as it carries zero penalty.


For out-of-network emergencies the bill imposes a $25,000 fine on the provider if they bill materially above either Medicare or "Usual and Customary" prices. However, nothing prevents the facility from actually issuing or collecting that outrageously-escalated billing -- such is not deemed an unlawful practice and is not barred, in any way restricted nor is any criminal penalty imposed. This means that the existing problem of out-of-network emergency care, say if you have a heart attack while in another state, will actually be made worse as the facility will be able to simply add the $25,000 fine to the financial assrape that they are already imposing on you. The bill also does nothing about the (very common) practice of an out-of-network person appearing in your room when you are in-network and then billing you for an out-of-network event. The "fine", which you will be forced to pay, only applies to emergency circumstances. If you've been admitted and are stable and Mr. Out-of-Network Doc sticks his head in your room you're still ****ed.


The bill does not eliminate the penalty for not having insurance. In fact it makes it worse than Obamacare in many instances. It contains no income exemptions for not having insurance (Obamacare does) and a new set of "screw you" provisions. Specifically, if you're young, healthy and poor but making it on your own and choose to opt out of buying insurance you will pay no penalty at that time. But, if and when you decide to buy health insurance in the future you will get penalized on the back end statutorily, even if you are still healthy at the time (in other words you didn't game the system, you just refused to buy something you didn't need!) For people who are both healthy and in the lower income strata (think young people folks) this will be a rude surprise that will go right up their poop chute when they decide a few years down the road to get married and start a family -- right about the time that buying insurance as a preventative act makes sense.


The bill is completely silent on the rank violations of existing anti-trust law found in 15 USC; specifically, Sherman, Clayton and Robinson-Patman. An earlier revision (2015) of this text at least attempted to clarify some aspects of Mccarran-Ferguson which bears on insurance companies -- this one is silent on the same matter. Specifically there is nothing barring collusion between providers, price-fixing (whether overt or otherwise), differential billing based on your wealth, form of payment or for that matter whether you have red hair and other similar abuses, all of which are the very form and function of the existing medical financial rape-room circus served upon the American public.
As such this bill, proffered as a "replacement" for Obamacare, might well fit this description:


This is a Congressionally-imposed financial******room that in many ways is worse than the existing Obamacare system, and has no material positive changes evident with one exception: It increases the MAGI (substantially) that a person or couple may earn without losing their giveaway.


It does nothing to decrease costs, it contains no penalties that bar the imposition of excessive charges for out-of-network emergency services (or any other out-of-network charge which you might not be able to refuse or even know occurred until after the fact); a provider fined for trying to bill you said excessive charge can simply add that to your bill and thus force you to pay their fine, and it contains hidden back-door taxes imposed on anyone who tries to opt out of the insurance and medical scam entirely, even if they are healthy the entire time and thus did not either intend to or actually game the system.


**** you Mr. Cassidy, **** you Ms. Collins, Mrs. Capito and Mr. Isakson, **** you Mitch McConnell and the entire remaining leadership in the Senate and House and finally, **** you Donald Trump.


Oh by the way, **** you Larry Kudlow, who is once again talking "free markets" on CNBS as an "unofficial" Trump carnival barker while in fact the GOP and Donald Trump are protecting monopolists even further and screwing you even harder.

[Horn]

Anything mandating that everyone is required to be covered is less than constitutional and the reason for fail and why a replacement should be stricken from the table.

[Cebu_4_2]

Assholes and opinions...

[Ares]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how having Health Insurance is some how equal to having Health care?

[ximmy]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how having Health Insurance is some how equal to having Health care?

question is too succinct and banal... Please disregard.

[crimethink]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how having Health Insurance is some how equal to having Health care?

Because most Americans don't have thousands in disposable income each month.

[crimethink]

This is the "Obamacare" repeal and replace option that is being peddled in the Senate.

It's the usual "free market solution" (sic) that so many spew about: you're free to die or remain in misery unless you fund our (money) market (accounts).

[Ares]

Because most Americans don't have thousands in disposable income each month.

I get that, my parents do not have Health Insurance. So I get that first hand. However, insurance isn't a means to an end and is off setting personal responsibility for your own health, as well provides the medical industry to up the cost because they know insurance companies will pay the price, and insurance companies increase premiums. It's a vicious circle that is will continue until it collapses.

[hoarder]

K.i.s.s.

[Cebu_4_2]

ObamaCare Architect: 'Americans Don't Understand What It Has Done for Them'

As seen on Tucker Carlson Tonight (http://insider.foxnews.com/show/tucker-carlson-tonight)

On Wednesday, Tucker Carlson debated Massachusetts Institute of Technology Professor Jonathan Gruber, often considered one of the "architects" of ObamaCare, on the merits of the law and why Republicans want it repealed.

Carlson said that 20 percent of those on the insurance exchanges only have one coverage option, and listed a few criticisms that Americans have of the law.

"There's been a lot of misinformation," Gruber said, adding that some costs increases have been slower than before the law was passed.
Cruz: With Reid Gone from Senate, 'Kate's Law' Back on the Table (http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/25/ted-cruz-steve-king-kates-law-harry-reid-illegal-immigrant-felons-steinle-san-francisco)
Secret Service Agent Suggests She Wouldn't Take Bullet for Trump (http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/25/secret-service-agent-facebook-post-would-not-take-bullet-donald-trump)
Tucker Battles Professor Who Blames Trump Win on Racism, 'White Supremacy' (http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/24/tucker-carlson-college-professor-white-supremacist-racial-reasoning-trump-election)
"Americans just dont understand what this law has done for them," he said.

Gruber said that the richest Americans and the youngest and healthiest may have indeed been hurt by the law, but the fact they often must pay more for healthcare has helped others who are less fortunate.

"Everyone agrees that ObamaCare has increased insurance coverage in America," he said, "this law was never supposed to help everybody."

ObamaCare was designed to fix what was wrong with the healthcare system in the "near-term", he said, adding that Carlson wanted to concentrate on the "small amount" of people who are upset with the law.

Carlson said ObamaCare forced people to buy coverage they don't want, using the example of men receiving coverage for obstetric care.

"You vilified the major accomplishments of the law," he said.

[hoarder]

One major hurdle in dealing with insurance companies is the coverage of "Pre-existing conditions". If I owned all the health insurance companies, I would want states to change from opting in and opting out of Obamacare as often as the wind blows so that all conditions disclosed become pre-existing so no claims need be paid. Also it would be nice if most people move freely between opted in and opted out states for the same reason.

But since I don't own any insurance companies, I think it would be fine if they were all abolished.

[monty]

Rumor has it Congress is about to repeal and repalce Obamacare with Paul Ryan's
https://scontent.fbog2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17201031_1211180502271137_2051163361211420455_n.jp g?oh=6db862405eb20e1e19377b0e8e71c14e&oe=592AAA7F

[crimethink]

Rumor has it Congress is about to repeal and repalce Obamacare with Paul Ryan's
https://scontent.fbog2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17201031_1211180502271137_2051163361211420455_n.jp g?oh=6db862405eb20e1e19377b0e8e71c14e&oe=592AAA7F

Obamacare: Of, by, and for the insurance corporations.

RINOcare: Of, by, and for the insurance corporations.

Until the insurance corporations are cut loose, there can be no solution. And until the suppliers are forced to reduce their prices, there can be no solution.

Healthcare based on permanent dividends will bankrupt anyone and anything.

[Cebu_4_2]

I got a splinter in my finger.

[monty]

Obamacare: Of, by, and for the insurance corporations.

RINOcare: Of, by, and for the insurance corporations.

Until the insurance corporations are cut loose, there can be no solution. And until the suppliers are forced to reduce their prices, there can be no solution.

Healthcare based on permanent dividends will bankrupt anyone and anything.

It was the insurance lobby who wrote Obamacare, the same shysters who will/are writing Paul Ryan's RINOcare. He likes that insurance money, so now the time has come repay his buddies.

[crimethink]

It was the insurance lobby who wrote Obamacare, the same shysters who will/are writing Paul Ryan's RINOcare. He likes that insurance money, so now the time has come repay his buddies.

All the lies about single payer are funded by the insurance corporations, and, to a lesser extent, the "health care" corporations who stand to lose billions when prices are negotiated down (as Trump has suggested).

[hoarder]

It was the insurance lobby who wrote Obamacare, the same shysters who will/are writing Paul Ryan's RINOcare. He likes that insurance money, so now the time has come repay his buddies.

I don't think it's about money. I think it's about controlling the lifespan of the goyim and the money is just icing on the cake.

[PatColo]

this Random Ryan vlogger pub'd this yesterday, cussing:

11:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehAd6b_SKQ

GOP unveil Obamacare replacement bill. It's GARBAGE and will FAIL! Here is why. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehAd6b_SKQ)



1,156 views
13 hours ago

[monty]

I don't think it's about money. I think it's about controlling the lifespan of the goyim and the money is just icing on the cake.
True. But Paul Ryan is obligated for accepting campaign funds from those who want to be in control.

[Horn]

this Random Ryan vlogger pub'd this yesterday, cussing:

11:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehAd6b_SKQ

GOP unveil Obamacare replacement bill. It's GARBAGE and will FAIL! Here is why. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pehAd6b_SKQ)



1,156 views
13 hours ago



Agree, there is No "replacement" for Obamacare, the notion of a "replacement" is stupid along with anyone who spouts a "replacement" is feasible.

[boogietillyapuke]

The government has a plan.........be afraid......very afraid.

[monty]

Many years ago there was a buckaroo, Max Alred. I never knew Max to have many worldly possessions. My earliest memories of him he owned a saddle and his bedroll. Later in life he had a bought used flatbed truck. Dad sold him a thourogh bred colt that he broke to ride. Now Max was coming up in the world. He had a horse and saddle and a truck to transport said horse to his next place of employment.

Max had a healthcare plan. When Max got the flu or a bad cold he would give himself an injection of veterinary penicillin.

One day Max wasn't feeling well. He saddled up the horse and rode off into the foothills. He found a spot that suited him. Pulled the saddle and bridle off the horse and let him go. Max leaned back against a pine tree and died. When the horse returned to the ranch sin saddle and rider they went hunting for Mr. Alred and found him whe he had passed away, leaning against against a pine. I suppose the proceeds from his earthly possessions paid his final expenses. This is a true story.

Max's healthcare plan is not recommended for everyone, but for a single buckaroo it was adequate.

[crimethink]

Many years ago there was a buckaroo, Max Alred. I never knew Max to have many worldly possessions. My earliest memories of him he owned a saddle and his bedroll. Later in life he had a bought used flatbed truck. Dad sold him a thourogh bred colt that he broke to ride. Now Max was coming up in the world. He had a horse and saddle and a truck to transport said horse to his next place of employment.

Max had a healthcare plan. When Max got the flu or a bad cold he would give himself an injection of veterinary penicillin.

One day Max wasn't feeling well. He saddled up the horse and rode off into the foothills. He found a spot that suited him. Pulled the saddle and bridle off the horse and let him go. Max leaned back against a pine tree and died. When the horse returned to the ranch sin saddle and rider they went hunting for Mr. Alred and found him whe he had passed away, leaning against against a pine. I suppose the proceeds from his earthly possessions paid his final expenses. This is a true story.

Max's healthcare plan is not recommended for everyone, but for a single buckaroo it was adequate.

Sounds like Rand Paul's "plan" for the little bastards of America.

[PatColo]

"Snowball's chance in DC" and all, but at least Random Ryan's thinkin'

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hEsratgRtMk/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&pt=325&jpgq=90&dct_sp=100&sigh=fKZztQQo5K6YccLyexwcQXkxfis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEsratgRtMk) 9:14
NEW UBER/BITCOIN TECHNOLOGY WILL CUT HEALTHCARE COSTS BY 50% (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEsratgRtMk)

282 views
9 hours ago

[monty]

Newt says Obamacare is dead

https://scontent.fbog2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17309208_1476728029027295_8163893760348288961_n.jp g?oh=03dbcf60e915f132f736bf59d249f888&oe=5960F29E

[Dachsie]

"controlling the lifespan of the goyim" is DIRECTLY related to the money for the insurance companies which are one and the same as the banksters and BigPharma. Get rid of the goyim and it's ALL icing.

Here is a pretty balanced piece by a retired physician.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/08/02/reflections-medical-career-robert-s-dotson-m-d/

Reflections on a Medical Career by Robert S. Dotson, M.D.
August 2, 2012 | Categories: Guest Contributions | Tags: | Print This Article
The Impending Collapse of American Medicine

_________________

I worked for several years in a large state supported medical school and university and saw the excellent care the interns and residents and medical students, under the supervision of a faculty physician or surgeon, gave to indigent patients from all over the state. I also observed way back then that there were County Hospitals and free or sliding scale low cost medical facilities for indigent patients. It was a good system and good medical care. Those who could pay something did.

But now the banksters have left our borders wide open and are letting in illegal and legal immigrants wholesale. That throws the once very good system intractably out of balance. Compassion and help for all is no longer possible because of this. We citizen taxpayers do not mind supporting County Hospitals and state medical teaching institutions but we do mind paying for health care for people who are not here legally. It has drastically changed the entire way medicine is practiced. Nowadays, doctors are so afraid of malpractice suits that they send the patient for endless, useless, and unnecessary tests just to protect themselves. Relying completely on objective tests is not the art of medicine at all.

I would also comment that I observed two kinds of doctors, good ones who not only were great practitioners by also non-greedy caring human beings. The other kind were 'can't wait to get in to private practice so I can start raking in the dough.'

[crimethink]

Newt says Obamacare is dead

https://scontent.fbog2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17309208_1476728029027295_8163893760348288961_n.jp g?oh=03dbcf60e915f132f736bf59d249f888&oe=5960F29E

That's hilarious. Pure propaganda.

Anyone with sense knows that the first step to controlling a population is to control the finance system. With a second step, quickly after, being control of "education."

But we wouldn't want to address the actual causes of society's sorrows, and (((who))) creates them, would we? Just spew about "socialism." Our (((friends))) from the (((Austrian))) (sic) school will help us "defeat" them.

Those who are "against" Alinsky are of the same tribe, or allied to the same tribe, as Alinsky. The Jew - not the form of government or economic system - is the Problem.

[crimethink]

"controlling the lifespan of the goyim" is DIRECTLY related to the money for the insurance companies which are one and the same as the banksters and BigPharma.

Mass so-called "education" - especially Talmudvision - is at the root of all social change (degeneracy). People's natural instincts would resist the utter lies and reject the "expert" worship that "education" and the Talmudvision have trained into them.

The Goyim slaved to bring the abomination into their very homes, celebrating the "entertainment" they could watch.

[monty]

Hannity and Dobbs on the ineffectiveness of Paul Ryan


http://youtu.be/YbD4Cto4iF4

https://youtu.be/YbD4Cto4iF4


https://yt3.ggpht.com/-kNoJzl3bvNU/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/blR042eopxA/s100-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xffffff/photo.jpg
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I am a Registered Professional Engineer in Maryland. I am a member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. I use to design hi-rise buildings. I assess the misinformation we get from Main Stream Media (MSM). When I see something that is in conflict with the news I compile from other sources, I produce a video so that people can see a different point of view. I have a strong background in engineering, software development, business, economics, and current events. I know that the official story of what happened on 9/11/2001 cannot be true. That was the catalyst for this Youtube channel. I research all the current news and compare the MSM news to the alternative media news and reach a logical assessment of the truth. I publish stories 2-3 times a week now and hope to provide information that wakes people up. My videos will often contain an introductory narrative about the contents of the video so you can decide if its something that would interest you. Please comment! Thx!!
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[StreetsOfGold]

Pass it so we can find out what's in it!!
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325588-gop-rep-once-health-care-bill-passes-lawmakers-can-really-explain-it

"lawmakers will be able to "really explain it" once it becomes law, .....In my district, right now there's a lot of misunderstanding as to what it is we're doing," the New York Republican said on MSNBC. "And once we get it done, and then we can have the chance to really explain it."

Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was famously excoriated by Republicans for her 2010 comments regarding ObamaCare that "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

Resident Chump, talking like the SPOILED brat he is says pass it or else

Resident CHUMP, the New boss, SAME AS the OLD BOSS, different coat of (republican) paint and they tell on themselves, calling this hideous thing Obamacare "LITE", that's what resident Chump is himself, an ObamaLITE (light) DUAL application.

8949

[Horn]

The problem is replacement of Obamacare, everyone wants to repeal it.

Only lemonheads including Trump want to replace it.

[Dachsie]

??????????


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Monty, are you saying that YOU are the engineer referred to in this anomalous appendage to your recent posting in this thread about Obamacare?

[monty]

The problem is replacement of Obamacare, everyone wants to repeal it.

Only lemonheads including Trump want to replace it.


He has to protect his buddies in the insurance industry. They obviously are pulling his stings. The same people who crafted 'Obamacare'.

[monty]

??????????


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I am a Registered Professional Engineer in Maryland. I am a member of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. I use to design hi-rise buildings. I assess the misinformation we get from Main Stream Media (MSM). When I see something that is in conflict with the news I compile from other sources, I produce a video so that people can see a different point of view. I have a strong background in engineering, software development, business, economics, and current events. I know that the official story of what happened on 9/11/2001 cannot be true. That was the catalyst for this Youtube channel. I research all the current news and compare the MSM news to the alternative media news and reach a logical assessment of the truth. I publish stories 2-3 times a week now and hope to provide information that wakes people up. My videos will often contain an introductory narrative about the contents of the video so you can decide if its something that would interest you. Please comment! Thx!!

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Monty, are you saying that YOU are the engineer referred to in this anomalous appendage to your recent posting in this thread about Obamacare?


No, lol ��. That is the owner of this youtube channel. I am a simple farm boy turned diesel truck/equipment mechanic then spent 10 years as an independent trucker after retiring.

[Horn]

He has to protect his buddies in the insurance industry. They obviously are pulling his stings. The same people who crafted 'Obamacare'.

What the world needs is a law that states life and health are uninsurable, cause they're priceless.

There oughtta be a law...

[PatColo]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CAM7DdmRS7M/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=l3KaHJ6Hm_N5ChPlHUK0HW8t7h0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAM7DdmRS7M) 7:55
�� Trump Threatens to Join Liberals Against Conservatives on Obamacare (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAM7DdmRS7M)

283 views
43 minutes ago

[Dachsie]

I usually like Jake Marfonios but not this time. He almost said nothing about title of this video other than one brief passing phrase - 'Trump is threatening to join the liberals' on this issue. Need to give some specific citations and direct quotes and a little context, otherwise looks too much like click bait to me.

I remember what things were like for the working poor right before Obama started making noises about this Obamacare plan. There are literally hundreds of thousands working poor who do not quite qualify for Medicaid even though they really are at poverty level. These people supported Obama and his idea for this plan because they THOUGHT it would mean that they would have a good insurance plan that was AFFORDABLE to them whereby they could continue in their low income work and status but at least have an insurance plan that was just as good as Medicaid which is mostly for people not working, no father / breadwinner in the home, and who are on welfare. I have to say that sounded kind of very good to me too for what I was led to believe would be a good thing for those -in-between households of intact two parent families and both parents working or working single mothers, single for many different reasons.

As I recall it was Nancy Pelosi who said something like "We can't see what is in the bill until we pass it" What incredible absurdity!

There were plenty of Rs in congress who voted for Obamacare, the kind of Rs Jake M. is saying Trump is.

The horrible truth turned out to be that the bankster/insurance crooks (one entity) cooked up a rotten kind of plan that forces poor people to buy health insurance, very low quality insurance plan with high premiums and very high deductibles and penalties if you do not buy it. Also the insurance companies just could not even break even on the plan and congress members and a bunch of other special people were exempted from having to sign up for Obamacare as were McDonalds and other connected companies not having to provide it for their employees. And the truth is that RyanCare, supposedly the Trump plan also, is almost no different at all and still contains the forcing people to buy a policy and other very unAmerican features and it is equally a cooked up brew of the same bankster/insurance crooks group. Obamacare is imploding now all on its own because of all these reasons. People absolutely cannot pay for it because their wages just won't meet the payment and even if they had the money, they know it is a bad way to waste their money. They figures they are just better off just going to emergency rooms and free or sliding scale government program clinicsa and getting whatever care they can there for free and they are right. Meanwhile more and more illegal aliens and people not working and on welfare are getting Cadillac Medicaid health care plan and we the taxpayers are having our back broken by all these entitlement programs for our open borders and offshored industries and no jobs, all also products of the banksters/insurance crooks, and big corporations.

The latest scuttlebutt I heard about Trump was that he really never said anything much at all during his campaign or after promoting or saying the RyanCare plan was his plan too. Trump supposed is said to be doing a little game theory so that will let Obamacare go on and fizzle out and implode and that in turn will put Ryan out of the House majority leader position and possibly out of congress altogether, and that in turn will allow Trump to get the Wall built between Mexico and USA and have Mexico pay for it, something that would not, could not happen if Ryan is still lurking around.

I do not really know and I know Trump is still in with that New York bankster brigade and is surrounded in his close team by them. I also do not what game theory strategies he is employing or what his real priorities are. The banksters want wide open borders and the corporations want low pay for workers and people on visiting visas and green cards.

Marfonios is kind of operating old-school "conservative" thinking. Marfonios will never say a word about who the banksters are and how THEY are the owners and operators of everything USA and that is what was wrong with the post WWII conservatives / right wing thing. But I still like Jake M.. It is just that I have heard his old tune so many times before and fell for it too myself until I started seeing things a lot differently.

Like I posted before in this same thread I think, the old system for the poor with county health hospitals and clinics and certain laws and funds that made private hospitals take as patients a certain number of no-can-pay patients was very good and we need to go back to something like that, but that is not possible with all the illegal aliens and bad legal immigrants being flooded in.

[crimethink]

There are literally hundreds of thousands working poor who do not quite qualify for Medicaid even though they really are at poverty level.


And that's because Republicans in certain states refused to approve Medicaid Expansion.



These people supported Obama and his idea for this plan because they THOUGHT it would mean that they would have a good insurance plan that was AFFORDABLE to them whereby they could continue in their low income work and status but at least have an insurance plan that was just as good as Medicaid which is mostly for people not working, no father / breadwinner in the home, and who are on welfare.


As much as I despise the Nigger, that isn't Obama's fault.




The horrible truth turned out to be that the bankster/insurance crooks (one entity) cooked up a rotten kind of plan that forces poor people to buy health insurance, very low quality insurance plan with high premiums and very high deductibles and penalties if you do not buy it. Also the insurance companies just could not even break even on the plan and congress members and a bunch of other special people were exempted from having to sign up for Obamacare as were McDonalds and other connected companies not having to provide it for their employees.


The only solution was and is Medicare for All. No more "insurance" corporations. And no more corporate exemptions.



They figures they are just better off just going to emergency rooms and free or sliding scale government program clinicsa and getting whatever care they can there for free and they are right.


That's a "great idea" until you get the $5000 bill for a three hour ER visit. And then the garnishment of your low wages starts within a year.




Meanwhile more and more illegal aliens and people not working and on welfare are getting Cadillac Medicaid health care plan and we the taxpayers are having our back broken by all these entitlement programs for our open borders and offshored industries and no jobs, all also products of the banksters/insurance crooks, and big corporations.


Medicaid is not a "Cadillac plan."

That said, there is no question anyone here not as an invited guest should get nothing beyond life-saving care, then billed to their government (with forcible reimbursement, if necessary).




Like I posted before in this same thread I think, the old system for the poor with county health hospitals and clinics and certain laws and funds that made private hospitals take as patients a certain number of no-can-pay patients was very good and we need to go back to something like that, but that is not possible with all the illegal aliens and bad legal immigrants being flooded in.

The counties and non-profits can't handle the load, even without the illegals. The drug and equipment prices must come down, and the premiums & deductibles squandered on shareholder dividends must come to an end.

Americans already pay for universal health care, but get nothing near it.

[Horn]

Problem is insurance at its root, not that U.S. insurance co
does not empower planet on the whole, as it do.

Simply cap the cost like the NFL

[monty]

Voters Outraged - Grassroots Fury Growing Over Republicans Refusal to Appeal Obamacare ~ End Times News Report, Jake Morphonios


http://youtu.be/jqhxOZ4rfEc

https://youtu.be/jqhxOZ4rfEc

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1433/36/1433362499566.jpg

Free medical care and food enables this.

:rolleyes:

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1493/93/1493931421840.jpg

[EE_]

Healthcare is a right, no matter how you treat your body?

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/11/590x/secondary/Man-with-cigarette-528399.jpg
http://www.mediterraneandiet.com/Images/obese-woman.jpg

[ximmy]

Trump Super PAC (https://twitter.com/TrumpSuperPAC)����‏ @TrumpSuperPAC (https://twitter.com/TrumpSuperPAC) 56m56 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/TrumpSuperPAC/status/860255900199788544)




#AHCA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AHCA?src=hash) PASSED! While others talk, #TRUMP (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TRUMP?src=hash) is showing the FAKE NEWS media and the world, he is a Man Of Action! #MAGA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/MAGA?src=hash)resource://22181a4d-af90-4ca3-a569-faed9118d6bc/data/resources/images/webicon_green.png




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26-RvMOUYEA

[crimethink]

he is a Man Of Action!

Except when it comes to DACA, or labeling China the currency manipulator it is.

This bill won't pass the Senate, so the vote today is moot.

[ximmy]

Except when it comes to DACA, or labeling China the currency manipulator it is.

This bill won't pass the Senate, so the vote today is moot.

Here you go crimethink, Hope this helps...

40 Reasons for Chronic Negativity and Pessimism
By Steve Backlund www.ignitinghope.com (http://www.ignitinghope.com)
(Some supporting verses refer to the reason for the problem, while others give solution.)

Regularly feeding on bad news and negative reports creating a negative faith for the future (Romans 10:17).
The fear of being disappointed again (Proverbs 13:12; Hebrews 10:23).
Unresolved and unhealed past disappointments (Psalm 23:3; Isaiah 61:1).
Begging prayer mentality instead of confident praying (I John 5:14-15).
Performance based living instead of beliefs/relationship based (Colossians 2:20-3:2; Galatians 3:1-5).
Elevating end time doom and gloom prophecies above God’s promises of victory and influence (Matthew 28:18-20, Acts 1:8).
Waiting for trial to be over to be joyful instead of using joy as strength in the battle (James 1:2-4; Romans 5:3-4; Nehemiah 8:10).
Creating beliefs from past experience instead of God’s word (Judges 6:12-16; Matthew 4:4; John 8:31-32).
Consistent lack of victory in one or more areas of life (Romans 7:13-24; John 8:31-32).
Feeling guilty for being blessed while others are suffering or struggling (Genesis 12:1-3).
Celebrating only perfection, not spiritual progress (Psalm 37:4).
Not understanding that faith believes something is true before experiencing it (Hebrews 11:1).
Devaluing eternal life and the storing up of riches in heaven (Matthew 5:11-12).
Being convinced the best way to motivate others is through being negative and critical (Colossians 3:21).
Not making something right with someone you have wronged (Matthew 5:23-24).
Victim mindsets (John 5:6-7).
Not mixing thanksgiving into prayer life (Philippians 4:6-7).
Learned habit of focusing on the negative, rather than the positive (Jeremiah 17:6).
Believing there are limited options in life (Ephesians 3:20).
Believing God has predestined us to have the life circumstances we have (Matthew 9:29).
Believing there are no solutions for what we are facing (1 Corinthians 10:13).
Being a short-term thinker instead of long-term (Genesis 6:22; Genesis 49).
Devil focused instead of beliefs focused (1 Peter 5:8-9).
Ignorant of or forgetting salvation’s benefits (Hosea 4:10, Psalm 103:1-4).
Little or no vision for future (Philippians 3:13; Proverbs 29:18).
Sinner instead of saint identity (Romans 6:11).
Procrastination on things we know we should do (Proverbs 12:24).
Devaluing joy and laughter (Proverbs 17:22).
Working for God instead of with God (Psalm 37:4).
Living impulsively (the whole book of Proverbs).
Running from God (Jonah 1:12-15).
Misunderstanding of godly sorrow and repentance (2 Corinthians 2:5-11).
Not having a clear promise to fight with (I Timothy 1:18; Ephesians 6:17).
Holding on to bitterness (Mark 11:22-25).
Minimizing the truth that we as believers will be with the Lord forever (I Thessalonians 4:13-18).
Not believing past prayers are working (I John 5:14-15; Mark 11:24).
Using worldly standards to measure success in life (Proverbs 13:7; Proverbs 28:11).
Pursuing “success” above the pursuit of character and integrity (Proverbs 13:11).
Thinking God is still angry with us (Isaiah 53:4-5).
Regret or shame for past decisions made (Philippians 3:13).


http://ignitinghope.com/blog/40-reasons-for-chronic-negativity-and-pessimism

[Horn]

Except when it comes to DACA, or labeling China the currency manipulator it is.

This bill won't pass the Senate, so the vote today is moot.

Not so sure, The American Health Care Act has some good communist plank rings to it.

Senators love soylent green legislation.

The smallest of government seeds often grow to become the most life sapping of the general populace.

[EE_]

Did the democrats in congress ever get out of their liberal fascist college?
Sit in's and now this? They are like children.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1mTB1O6yJ8

31 seconds of the healthcare vote that shows why people hate politics

(CNN)When House Republicans secured their 216th "yes" on the American Health Care Act Thursday, Democrats immediately began taunting their across-the-aisle rivals.

"Na Na Na Na, Hey Hey Hey, Goodbye," Democrats sang at Republicans. A few Democrats even waved goodbye.
The implication was obvious: Democrats believed many Republicans had just cost themselves their political careers by voting for an overhaul of Obamacare.

And the DC political class wonders why people hate them.

I understand that Democrats not only didn't like the way this bill was passed -- without any estimates on what it might cost or how many people might lose coverage as a result -- but also believed the policies contained in it would leave the country and its people considerably worse off.

That is a worthy conversation to have. But, that's not what Democrats were doing. Instead, they were jeering and mocking their colleagues.

Look. We have two parties in this country for a reason. Democrats and Republicans don't always disagree on the problems the country faces but do almost always disagree on how to solve them.

Debating those differences is the stuff of democracy. Giving the public the chance, every two years, to render their judgment on who has more of the right in the argument is the backbone of our political system.

Poll after poll suggests that one thing both sides broadly agree on is that they prefer bipartisan compromise to go-it-alone-ism. When House Democrats act like they did today -- or President Trump acts like he does almost every day -- we get further and further from even the possibility of finding common ground or even just talking to each other like human beings.

It also convinces people not in Washington or not involved in politics that the people who are representing them in DC have no real idea what they care about or value.

That's a very bad thing for the long-term health of our democracy.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/healthcare-democrats-booing-na-na-na-good-bye-singing/index.html

[crimethink]

Here you go crimethink, Hope this helps...

I realize you are enamored by your lord and savior, the Trumpmessiah, but you were warned about falling for that trap:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Time for you to heed the warning, and repent.

[crimethink]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/04/politics/trump-us-australia-health-care/

"I shouldn't say this to our great gentleman and my friend from Australia because you have better health care than we do."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Australia)

[7th trump]

I realize you are enamored by your lord and savior, the Trumpmessiah, but you were warned about falling for that trap:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Time for you to heed the warning, and repent.
Trump is neither a false Christ or prophet to be considered.
He's a president of a corporation.
Pull your head out of your ass because with your retarded logic then all past and future presidents are false prophets and christs.
seriously.......pull your biased head out of your ass.

[palani]

your biased head out of your ass.


There is a fault of the mind which is INDOCIBILITY, or difficulty of being taught; the which must needs arise from a false opinion that they know already the truth of that which is in question. For certainly men are not otherwise so unequal in capacity as the evidence is unequal of what is taught by the mathematicians, and what is commonly discoursed of in other books: and therefore if the minds of men were all of white paper, they would almost equally be disposed to acknowledge whatsoever should be in right method, and right ratiocination delivered unto them. But when men have once acquiesced in untrue opinions, and registered them as authentical records in their minds; it is no less impossible to speak intelligibly to such men, than to write legibly upon a paper already scribbled over. The immediate cause therefore of indocibility, is prejudice; and of prejudice, false opinion of our own knowledge.

If the shoe fits I expect you could make it stink.... or if your mind was a paper I would not desire to attempt to decipher the scribblings written upon it.

[7th trump]

If the shoe fits I expect you could make it stink.... or if your mind was a paper I would not desire to attempt to decipher the scribblings written upon it.
Lol
This place all too aware of your scramblings and nutcase foreign law conspiracies.
and now you want to put them up on a billboard.
no surprise there.

[Horn]

Alls i saw was a bunch of Republicans standing in pose, applauding that they were all now Democrats!

[ximmy]

I realize you are enamored by your lord and savior, the Trumpmessiah, but you were warned about falling for that trap:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Time for you to heed the warning, and repent.


Oh, now you are the Voice of the One calling others to repentance...

Crimethink the Baptist
http://www.makingchristknown.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/john-baptist-prepares-way-meme.png


Here you go, I made you some grub...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d1/19/19d119db666d331b82a6fd2c52431b4d.jpg

[crimethink]

Oh, now you are the Voice of the One calling others to repentance...


I am one of the few here telling you that the Trumpmessiah is a false christ. Yet you persist in adhering to the liar.





Crimethink the Baptist
http://www.makingchristknown.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/john-baptist-prepares-way-meme.png


I am flattered, but do not deserve the comparison to John.





Here you go, I made you some grub...
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/d1/19/19d119db666d331b82a6fd2c52431b4d.jpg

Probably the best cooking you will ever do.

But I hear they're good with Sriracha! Similar snacks:

https://www.edibleinsects.com/entomophagy/sriracha-crickets/

[crimethink]

http://watchmanscry.com/watch/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/trump-messiah.jpg

https://media.salon.com/2016/04/trump_supporter_sign.jpg

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/Trump/i_believe_in_trump.png

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1418/1300/products/trump-jesus-shirt_grande.png?v=1472756395




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyqEPcxz_Tc


For there shall arise false Christs [messiahs], and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[Jewboo]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1483/66/1483660729329.jpg

[Cebu_4_2]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1483/66/1483660729329.jpg

What relevence does this have?