Bitcoin $4000+

[JohnQPublic]

Bitcoin (BTC)
$4144.27 (10.12%)

[Ares]

Really heavy trading in Asia is driving up the prices. At least from what I can tell.

[madfranks]

Crazy. I never reached my goal of getting 21 bitcoins (1/1,000,000 of the total supply), and now I probably never will.

[JohnQPublic]

Crazy. I never reached my goal of getting 21 bitcoins (1/1,000,000 of the total supply), and now I probably never will.

Buy a bit more on the next collapse, wait. Rinse , repeat.

[Ares]

Crazy. I never reached my goal of getting 21 bitcoins (1/1,000,000 of the total supply), and now I probably never will.

Yeah me neither, I do have more than 10, so I'm among the 0.79% of the worlds richest wallets. It's all about perspective. :)

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

[Horn]

How long before they find out it isn't worth anything to them?

[JohnQPublic]

Heading to $5000

[JohnQPublic]

Bitcoin 4x$4000=$16000! Unbelievable. When this goes it will be an explosion. Then it will climb again.

[Shami-Amourae]

Sell when it hits $900,000. Most early investors plan on dumping at $1,000,000.

If you're paranoid the price will crash, take profits in Litecoin and/or Monero.

[madfranks]

Sell when it hits $900,000. Most early investors plan on dumping at $1,000,000.

If you're paranoid the price will crash, take profits in Litecoin and/or Monero.Do you know how hard it will be to hold on anywhere above $100k? At that point we're talking life changing money for anyone with a single BTC. It will take balls of steel to HODL ON after that.

[Ares]

Do you know how hard it will be to hold on anywhere above $100k? At that point we're talking life changing money for anyone with a single BTC. It will take balls of steel to HODL ON after that.

Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm

[JohnQPublic]

Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm

Sounds like the gold chatter around 2008.

[Ares]

Sounds like the gold chatter around 2008.

I think 2008/2009 is what spurred Bitcoin into existence. The flat out manipulation where they would dump trillions on the open market and Gold would only go up a few FRN's because of Naked Shorts on the CME. It was ridiculous.

Here is the RAW Hex version of the Bitcoin Genesis block:

00000000 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00000020 00 00 00 00 3B A3 ED FD 7A 7B 12 B2 7A C7 2C 3E ....;£íýz{.²zÇ,>
00000030 67 76 8F 61 7F C8 1B C3 88 8A 51 32 3A 9F B8 AA gv.a.È.ÈŠQ2:Ÿ¸ª
00000040 4B 1E 5E 4A 29 AB 5F 49 FF FF 00 1D 1D AC 2B 7C K.^J)«_Iÿÿ...¬+|
00000050 01 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00000060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00000070 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 4D 04 FF FF 00 1D ......ÿÿÿÿM.ÿÿ..
00000080 01 04 45 54 68 65 20 54 69 6D 65 73 20 30 33 2F ..EThe Times 03/
00000090 4A 61 6E 2F 32 30 30 39 20 43 68 61 6E 63 65 6C Jan/2009 Chancel
000000A0 6C 6F 72 20 6F 6E 20 62 72 69 6E 6B 20 6F 66 20 lor on brink of
000000B0 73 65 63 6F 6E 64 20 62 61 69 6C 6F 75 74 20 66 second bailout f
000000C0 6F 72 20 62 61 6E 6B 73 FF FF FF FF 01 00 F2 05 or banksÿÿÿÿ..ò.
000000D0 2A 01 00 00 00 43 41 04 67 8A FD B0 FE 55 48 27 *....CA.gŠý°þUH'
000000E0 19 67 F1 A6 71 30 B7 10 5C D6 A8 28 E0 39 09 A6 .gñ¦q0·.\Ö¨(à9.¦
000000F0 79 62 E0 EA 1F 61 DE B6 49 F6 BC 3F 4C EF 38 C4 ybàê.aÞ¶Iö¼?Lï8Ä
00000100 F3 55 04 E5 1E C1 12 DE 5C 38 4D F7 BA 0B 8D 57 óU.å.Á.Þ\8M÷º..W
00000110 8A 4C 70 2B 6B F1 1D 5F AC 00 00 00 00 ŠLp+kñ._¬....

Which references this news article:

https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/1/1d/Jonny1000thetimes.png

I think its interesting that by their actions of suppressing gold/silver that they created a monster that they are going to have a difficult time dealing with.

[madfranks]

Agreed, wife and I have discussed it.... I think right now we'll hold until 1 mill per coin. But we may sell 1 or 2 to pay off some debts (car, house typical etc.) and hold the rest and ride the wave. When I look at the worlds richest wallets and the ones containing 10 to 100 has gone down since my post in this thread earlier, it's down into the 0.55% now.

Look at me, becoming one of the "elite" /sarcasm

I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?

[Ares]

I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?

Ahh, but someone has already determined that roughly 2 -3 million coins are gone forever. 1 million alone are Satoshi's and haven't moved since the day they were mined. I think it was Charles Hughes "of two minds" who said either he's dead or he has the austerity of a saint.

So subtract 2 million and there are only 14.75 million available. Then bring it down further that roughly only 1-2 million are actively being traded. The rest are being "hodled" So that's a lot of money chasing so few assets.

[madfranks]

Ahh, but someone has already determined that roughly 2 -3 million coins are gone forever. 1 million alone are Satoshi's and haven't moved since the day they were mined. I think it was Charles Hughes "of two minds" who said either he's dead or he has the austerity of a saint.

So subtract 2 million and there are only 14.75 million available. Then bring it down further that roughly only 1-2 million are actively being traded. The rest are being "hodled" So that's a lot of money chasing so few assets.

Good points, but think about this. 1-2 million BTC may be all that is actively traded right now, but as the BTC price hits $20k, $50k, $100k, etc. there will be plenty of folks who sell to take profit, increasing the supply being traded in the market. If 5 million BTC are available to trade in the market, that's still a market cap of 5 trillion. That's a market value higher than many governments of the world.

[Ares]

Good points, but think about this. 1-2 million BTC may be all that is actively traded right now, but as the BTC price hits $20k, $50k, $100k, etc. there will be plenty of folks who sell to take profit, increasing the supply being traded in the market. If 5 million BTC are available to trade in the market, that's still a market cap of 5 trillion. That's a market value higher than many governments of the world.

Agreed, it's definitely interesting to watch. I think it was Isaac Newton who said "I can calculate the movement of stars, but not the madness of men."

Lets see how far this madness gets us. I only spent what I could afford so if it goes to zero tomorrow I'm now out anything as I made my ROI when I cashed in my Litecoin.

[jcismylord]

I want to examine this $1million/BTC concept for a minute. Right now there are ~16.75 million BTC in existence. In order for the price of a single BTC to hit a million dollars, the total market cap of BTC will have to be $16,750,000,000,000. That's almost a $17 Trillion market cap. Is this even a feasible consideration?

yes, theoretically it is possible:

suppose all BTC owners just sit on their hands for a little while, while one guy sells his 0.000001 BTC for $1 - yes, then you will see the BTC cost at $1 million, and a mirage capitalization of 17 Trillions.

Amazing how much just one dollar could do, isnt it?

Food for thought.

PS. I wonder whether the left hand selling BTCs to the right hand allows setting the price ( price manipulation), since the fees are none

[Ares]

yes, theoretically it is possible:

suppose all BTC owners just sit on their hands for a little while, while one guy sells his 0.000001 BTC for $1 - yes, then you will see the BTC cost at $1 million, and a mirage capitalization of 17 Trillions.

Amazing how much just one dollar could do, isnt it?

Food for thought.

PS. I wonder whether the left hand selling BTCs to the right hand allows setting the price ( price manipulation), since the fees are none

Every exchange has a fee, but its usually a percentage of the buy/sell order. That was a thought an article had I read was brought up earlier. Basically saying if the CME / CBOE think that they can manipulate the price of Bitcoin when they only operate between 9am and 4pm then they are going to get slaughtered with their short positions with an asset that trades every second of 24 by 7.

[jcismylord]

Every exchange has a fee, but its usually a percentage of the buy/sell order. That was a thought an article had I read was brought up earlier. Basically saying if the CME / CBOE think that they can manipulate the price of Bitcoin when they only operate between 9am and 4pm then they are going to get slaughtered with their short positions with an asset that trades every second of 24 by 7.

the fees are small

so, if not fees and taxes, what otherwise prevents "selling" large sums of BTCs to a bunch of your own "sockpuppet" wallets with the goal of manipulating the price?

I am not pretending to be an expert. Just asking.

[Ares]

the fees are small

so, if not fees and taxes, what otherwise prevents "selling" large sums of BTCs to a bunch of your own "sockpuppet" wallets with the goal of manipulating the price?

I am not pretending to be an expert. Just asking.

Nothing honestly, and has been done before I've seen it at btc-e used by the whales to manipulate the price in the short term. Someone did that at OKCoin (former Chinese exchange which had 90% of trading volume of all Bitcoin trades at one point). Someone coded a bot to trade against that whale and ended up taking almost all of that persons Bitcoin before they pulled the order. They'll learn an expensive lesson when trading against hackers.

[Hitch]

Good points, but think about this. 1-2 million BTC may be all that is actively traded right now, but as the BTC price hits $20k, $50k, $100k, etc. there will be plenty of folks who sell to take profit, increasing the supply being traded in the market. If 5 million BTC are available to trade in the market, that's still a market cap of 5 trillion. That's a market value higher than many governments of the world.

It makes me think the governments might be the one's pushing up bitcoins price. The question really hasn't been answered...where is all the money going into bitcoin coming from? The average american person is living paycheck to paycheck, especially the young folks who are the most likely to buy bitcoin. The older folks, who have more wealth, are less prone to the risk of such a thing.

Also, when everyone starts dumping bitcoin and taking profits, it's value is going to crash, hard. The number of crypto currencies that can be created is really unlimited, it's just which ever one is the most popular will be the most valuable.

[Horn]

"Also, when everyone starts dumping bitcoin and taking profits, it's value is going to crash, hard."

Which negates its root definition as a "currency"

No liquido, turns it into a lottery.

Governments love lottery winnings.

[Hitch]

Governments love lottery winnings.

They will likely win this one. Bitcoin, and all crypto currencies are a threat to governments, and big banks. What's the best way to destroy bitcoin? Kill the confidence. Crash it. Drive the price up to insane levels, dump all the coins, and crash the price.

I would not put it past .gov and it's minion banks to scheme such a thing. Destroy confidence in cryptos and they win. The average person is priced out of bitcoin, as it stands. All that's left to win this battle is the death blow. It's coming.

Remember, wealth is not lost, it just transfers hands.