Bars can boot Trump supporters, but bakers cannot boot gays

[madfranks]

Blatant one-sided hypocrisy is the flavor of our times it seems.

http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/why-a-bar-can-boot-trump-supporters-but-a-bakery-cannot-deny-gay-customers/


A judge ruled that a bar was well within its right to kick out Trump supporters. And this is great news.

Not because I have any particular animosity towards Trump supporters (any more than other enablers of government oppression). I’m not saying Trump supporters should be kicked out of bars. If I owned a bar I certainly wouldn’t kick out Trump supporters. After all, it’s not like the Bernie supporters have enough money to keep a business afloat.

But this is a win for freedom of association. All interactions should be consensual. Obviously, we understand this concept when it comes to relationships and sex. But for some reason, fewer people hold consent as so important when it comes to business transactions.

You don’t have to go to a bar, and a bar doesn’t have to serve you.

But this does seem like quite the contradiction compared to courts forcing bakers to bake cakes for gay couples.

The distinction, in this case, is that the bar did not deny someone based on religious beliefs. Political discrimination is allowed. So you cannot deny a customer based on your own religious beliefs, but you can deny a customer based on their–and your–political beliefs. Unless of course, that customer holds a protected political belief, in which case you still cannot deny them.

Some people think that when a business opens their doors, they are waiving their right to deny service to any peaceful customer willing to pay the price for a product on offer.

But imagine extreme examples where the store owner should absolutely be able to deny a customer.

A Jewish-owned bagel shop advertises that they will make your bagels into any shape you want. Can they deny a Neo-Nazi who wants a dozen swastika bagels?

A black-owned costume maker advertises that they will sew anything for $20 an hour. Can they deny a KKK member who needs his robes altered?

Can a gay baker deny an Evangelist Christian who wants his cake to say, “Pray to uphold marriage between a man and a woman.”

Not surprisingly, pro-traditional marriage activists have asked gay-friendly bakeries to bake just such cakes.

This doesn’t please me. I feel bad for the owners of the bakeries who get dragged into the debate to be made an example of. They are just trying to run a business and be inclusive. Yet because the political winds leave religious folks feeling oppressed, they feel the need to fight back and demonstrate the very real double standard.

The point is, a gay-friendly bakery should absolutely be able to say, “No, we will not bake you a cake with an anti-gay old testament verse on it.”

But it is a two-way street. Forcing people to interact with you only creates conflict.

Just for the record, I find the whole gay marriage debate an absurdly stupid issue. Any conflict stems from the government giving special privileges and incentives to married couples. The government should have nothing to do with marriage.

Any privileges like hospital visitation rights, property ownership, etc. should be dealt with in private contracts between consenting adults. Who cares if the adults are two men, two women, or just friends; the contract will stipulate the legal relationship, and the rest is no one else’s business.

But then, of course, a particular church should not be forced to perform gay weddings. Surely many still would. A religious ceremony is not something that should hold any legal weight anyway. And the rest just gets back to not forcing businesses to serve customers they don’t want to, for whatever reason.

The ability to deny service does not create broader conflict. The conflict is created by people being forced to associate. Going our separate ways when we don’t agree is a peaceful resolution. Agree to disagree.

I find it a ridiculous double standard when cafes brag that they discriminate against men, or when an all black retreat bans white people. But they absolutely have the right to do so.

Give your money to someone who wants your business and doesn’t discriminate against you.

There will be peace on Earth not by forcing everyone under one big oppressive umbrella of collectivism, but by simply allowing people to associate with–and ignore–whoever they wish.

Forced unity does not create peace, it creates conflict.

More at link...

[madfranks]

Here's the other story referenced in the above report:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/this-evangelist-asked-a-gay-bakery-to-make-a-traditional-marriage-cake.-now


This evangelist asked a gay bakery to make a traditional marriage cake. Now he may face charges.

April 9, 2015 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Joshua Feuerstein was just trying to make a point. Now, he may face legal action, as a bakery that refused to provide him with a cake opposing same-sex “marriage” threatens to sue him for taking their conversation public. The bakery owner is also threatening to press charges related to the recording of the phone call.

In the wake of heated national debate over whether business owners should have the right to refuse to participate in same-sex “weddings” that violate their religious beliefs, Feuerstein, an internet evangelist, decided to see if pro-gay business owners would give him the same deference as a Christian that homosexual activists are demanding Christian business owners give to same-sex couples, even if they disagreed with his worldview.

He made a tape of himself calling Florida-based bakery “Cut the Cake” and asking them to make a cake decorated with the words, “We do not support gay marriage.” As Feuerstein expected, the bakery – which calls itself LGBT-friendly and advertises same-sex “wedding” services in gay publications – refused and hung up the phone.

"We wanted to see if a pro-LGBT bakery would bake a cake for something that it was opposed to what they believed in,” Feuerstein told Florida’s WESH 2 News, “and you know what, I actually believe that Cut the Cake has every right as an American to refuse to print that on a cake.”

Feuerstein posted video of the phone call to YouTube with commentary explaining his position. “Cut the Cake[‘s owner]…refuses to make an anti-gay ‘marriage’ cake, so it obviously violates her principles, and so she doesn’t feel like she should be forced to make the cake,” Feuerstein said in the video. “And yet…there’s all of this hoopla going around because Christian bakeries think that they shouldn’t be forced.”

“Look, this is not about discrimination,” Feuerstein said. “This is about them having the freedom.”

But Cut the Cake’s owner, Sharon Haller, didn’t appreciate being made an example of by Feuerstein. She claims that as soon as Feuerstein’s video was posted, she began receiving dozens of phone calls from his fans and followers placing “fake orders” and telling her and the rest of her bakery staff to “kill ourselves.”

"I'm just afraid because of the type of calls that we were getting that someone is going to attack me in my home," Haller told News 13.

Feuerstein took down his video as soon as he became aware that Haller was receiving harassing phone calls. "I never asked people to call, be hateful or boycott them," Feuerstein told WKMG 6.

But Haller quickly reposted the video to YouTube, along with a description classifying Feuerstein’s phone call as an “attack.” She asked people to “put a stop to people like Joshua Feuerstein” by donating to her GoFundMe page, which has raised more than $14,000.

Haller is also threatening to press charges, saying Feuerstein’s recording of the phone call without her consent violates Florida law. She has reached out to the FBI and is considering pursuing a criminal case.

The fiasco echoes similar cases making news around the nation, as cake shops have become the front line battleground in the culture war over the definition of marriage.

In December, blogger Theodore Shoebat recorded himself calling 13 “pro-gay” bakeries to ask if they would make a cake with the words “Gay marriage is wrong.” Shoebat says all 13 bakeries refused to cooperate. Some simply hung up the phone as soon as he made his request. Others called him names and used obscenities when confronted by Shoebat over the perceived double-standard. Shoebat contrasted his own experience with that of a baker in Ireland who suffered “tremendous loss to his business” after resisting attempts by gay activists and the Irish state to force him to create a cake featuring the words “Support Gay Marriage.”

“Christian bakeries that refuse to make pro-homosexual marriage cakes are getting sued left, right, and center,” Shoebat wrote in a blog post explaining the motivation behind his videos, which he called a “social experiment.”

“They get fined, they get death threats, and they lose their businesses. This experiment proves beyond doubt that the gay agenda is not just about their freedom to practice a sexual orientation, but the suppression of free speech,” he said.

Last year, Bill Jack filed a discrimination complaint against Denver’s Azucar Bakery, claiming the owner violated his religious rights by refusing to decorate Bible-shaped cakes with the words “God hates sin. Psalm 45:7" and "Homosexuality is a detestable sin. Leviticus 18:22.” He also wanted one cake to feature an image of two men holding hands in front of a cross with a red “X” overlaid on the image.

The Colorado Civil Rights Commission rejected Jack’s claim early this week, ruling that the bakery owner rejected his message because it violated an established policy of refusing to decorate cakes with "derogatory language and imagery,” not because of his faith.

The heightened controversy over wedding cakes comes as several states are debating Religious Freedom Restoration Acts (RFRAs) to protect religious business owners’ right to refuse to provide goods and services that violate their deeply held beliefs. Homosexual activists have decried such laws, claiming they will be used as an excuse for people to discriminate against gays.

[Horn]

Trump support is a religion, so is being negro or even Colombian.

They're All supreme in their own way.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzb6RPeie2s

[osoab]

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others...

[cheka.]

i've been arguing same for websites/youtube bans. civil rights are being violated on a daily basis

i think the answer may lie in the hate crime rankings. higher ranked groups can ban lower ranked groups

jews, which sit at the top of the hc rankings, can ban everybody else

gays, which are in the 2 slot, can ban everybody but jews

etc..