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So are all currencies, even gold. It's why it's measured, drilled and under goes acid test to verify that it is what it is. The mathematical equation removes the human element and your trusting machines to verify that the coin is real, and not counterfeited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
https://seattle98.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/126.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Ares
I happen to share Blink's apprehension. According to you, no one is personally responsible for the integrity of Bitcoins and anyone can "improve" the code. What or who prevents someone from "improving" the code to divert credits into their own Bitcoin Wallet?
If our Bitcoins get stolen who do we call?
:(??
Trust with gold is inherit that it isn't created by man or machine, and is intrinsic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
His removal of trust was solely based in the transaction (powered by fiat) is my understanding, there isn't a single code created by man that won't be broken by men.
The original intent was finite based on some specific market of fish bait, or how long it might take before noticed & broken.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bit...e.27s_behaviorQuote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
Quote:
Bitcoin is not decentralized because the developers can dictate the software's behavior
The Bitcoin protocol was originally defined by Bitcoin's inventor, Satoshi Nakamoto, and this protocol has now been widely accepted as the standard by the community of miners and users.
Though the developers of the original Bitcoin client still exert influence over the Bitcoin community, their power to arbitrarily modify the protocol is very limited. Since the release of Bitcoin v0.3, changes to the protocol have been minor and always in agreement with community consensus.
Protocol modifications, such as increasing the block award from 25 to 50 BTC, are not compatible with clients already running in the network. If the developers were to release a new client that the majority of miners perceives as corrupt, or in violation of the project’s aims, that client would simply not catch on, and the few users who do try to use it would find that their transactions get rejected by the network.
There are also other Bitcoin clients made by other developers that adhere to the Bitcoin protocol. As more developers create alternative clients, less power will lie with the developers of the original Bitcoin client.
Lets say I wanted to alter the code myself. I could, and know how to. I make my own client, and do like you said. My client would be rejected by the network and any transactions I tried to do would be ignored/declined.
The protocol itself is set in "stone" so there are limitations on what can be changed or updated. Enhancements to the wallet, like maybe you want to add an automatic backup feature, that's allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
The way the system works it would be entirely impossible for someone to modify the code to divert coins into ones wallet. When you make a change or "mine" coins each coin has to get the approval of all nodes on the network to make sure that it is what it is. The same way a transaction occurs, it has to be approved by all the nodes on the network in order for the transfer to take place. If you have a bitcoin / litecoin wallet, you'll get a payment. It shows up on an "Unconfirmed" field. Then once it has been verified it ends up in your wallet and is valid. It can take about 5-10 minutes (depending on network speed) to verify the transaction. All those miners mining bitcoins are also the ones verifying all the transactions. So you would have to deceive every single one in order to create fake coins, or to transfer authorized coins.
I thought yur girlfriend ximmy had hers plucked, didn't she?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
Ask her.
No one. You're fucked. Me and ximmy both had Bitcoins stolen for different reasons. I sold Bitcoins for a fiat currency and got them stolen in a chargeback scam where they claimed the money they gave me was stolen. Ximmy had her wallet/Bitcoins stored with someone else and they got stolen there (I think that's her story, she can clarify.) In my instance my Bitcoins weren't actually stolen, but the money I sold them for was basically, so in turn the Bitcoins where "stolen". If you steal Bitcoins from a website its like stealing physical cash or physical gold/silver from a cash register at a store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
The safest thing to do is keep your Bitcoins in your OWN wallet, and keep it encrypted with a password until you use it. Have it split into multiple wallets too and have copies of it in multiple locations. For instance, I keep copies of my wallets on free upload servers, in Gmail accounts, and so forth, and they are all password encrypted so only I know where they are. I can also rename them as .doc or .pdf files or whatever so no one will suspect what they are.
I believe there will be intermediaries that will exist, sort of like for insurance, as time goes on. Theft is a real issue with Bitcoin, but it really deals with that fact that people aren't used to the concept of trusting people we don't know with our Bitcoins, when we should store them in our own wallets, or learn to only buy/sell them from reputable sources like exchanges.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bit...s_isn.27t_good
Quote:
Bitcoin has no built-in chargeback mechanism, and this isn't good
Why some people think this is bad: Chargebacks are useful for limiting fraud. The person handling your money has a responsibility to prevent fraud. If you buy something on eBay and the seller never ships it, PayPal takes funds from the seller's account and gives you back the money. This strengthens the eBay economy, because people recognize that their risk is limited and are more willing to purchase items from risky sellers.
Why it's actually a good thing: Bitcoin is designed such that your money is yours and yours alone. Allowing chargebacks implies that it is possible for another entity to take your money from you. You can have either total ownership rights of your money, or fraud protection, but not both. That said, nothing inherent in the dollar or euro or any other currency is necessary for chargebacks to be possible, and likewise, nothing prevents the creation of PayPal-like services denominated in Bitcoin that provide chargebacks or fraud protection.
The statement "The person handling your money has a responsibility to prevent fraud" is still true; the power has been shifted into your own hands. Fraud will always exist. It's up to you to only send bitcoins to trusted entities. It is possible to trust an online identity without ever knowing their physical identity; see the OTC Web of Trust.
Yep that is a significant risk with crypto-currencies in general. If they are stolen there is no insurance, no FDIC, and no safety deposit box. The same could be said that if your house catches fire and you didn't back up your bitcoin wallet offsite. Your SoL. That was also the same risk that the gold standard had. If a bank got robbed and a good portion of the patrons gold was taken, the people who had gold that was stolen were screwed. That was also the time that Wells Fargo transported their gold under armed coaches. The ONLY time you have insurance is a fractional reserve system where the banks can just print up (debase) and give you what was taken at the cost of depreciating the asset that everyone else had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
Btw, I never said anything like that, or eluded to it. Whoever figures out how to compromise it would never be so stupid.Quote:
You act like governments or banks can just flip a switch and shut it down. THEY CAN'T!!
They could double their dough by doing it slowly as they've done in the past with commodities.
Anyway my trust in the GSUS still holds.
My apologies then. I thought somewhere in this long thread of back and forth that I saw that it could just be shut down. In any regard, the biggest threat is them buying large portions of bitcoins through the exchange then dumping them on the market all at once. But at the same time that could result in a blow back. I imagine there are quite a few people who are wanting to buy Bitcoins but at 200-250 a coin feel it's too expensive. If there were a significant drop I have a feeling a lot of people would buy in. Myself included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
https://www.farmersmerchants-bank.co...al_auditor.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Ares
"Approve" and "Verify".
Again...if our Bitcoins get stolen or mysteriously disappear from our Bitcoin Wallet WHO do we call? Is there an 800 number? Online audit trail?
These somebodies apparently have authority to "approve" and "verify" but can they also be held responsible for loss and contacted?
:(??
Learn networking Book, there is no one for you to call. If you lose a bitcoin, wallet stolen, destroyed in a fire, laptop / desktop stolen you're fucked. There is no one approving, verifying anything. It's computer hardware running cryptographic algorithms to approve, verify transactions and mined coins to insure the integrity of the currency and network. Securing your wallet is up to you. The state and its benefactors like banks cannot help you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
Personal responsibility, yeah I know. Pretty dangerous stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
There is the block chain, where you can see all the transactions. For example, a popular Bitcoin supporter is BrotherJohnF. His Bitcoin address is the following:
[code]1KDMja8Jwf2E42zp7KoK6ypmT5c36yNx7E[/code]
You can see transactions BrotherJohnF has engaged in with this block chain search:
https://blockchain.info/address/1KDM...6ypmT5c36yNx7E
You can search the block chain and see all his transactions. He purposely chooses to keep this address tied to his wallet. He can also set things up where he generates a new address for EVERY transaction he makes, thus making him completely anonymous. Basically if a thief is dumb enough to use the same address, as the Bitcoin wallet he/she steals from, then there is a trail and the thief can be caught, but I think thieves aren't THAT stupid.
Ares...while writing my last post you since posted some really eye-opening realities that now only confirm my skepticism about Bitcoins: Theft without any audit trail. Poof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
:)
Wish you success, Ares.
If I knew more about the ins & outs I might trust it enough one day to also. I think, I'm too earth an astrological sign, or something? All you friggin fire/air people will reap the benefits, and when I get in there it will be doused mud.
The codes themselves & mining in electrical fields, makes one get all philosophical about Gold and Silver, like was it the answer that they all reached when finished mining? :)
There's always the block chain, that is if the thief is stupid enough to use the same address to make purchases then yes it can be followed. What good it will do you is uncertain. The state knowing that BTC's are a threat to its existence probably won't really work all that hard on getting your wallet back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
http://images.nymag.com/news/crimela...0614_1_560.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Ares
Exactly. Bitcoins go missing within the "computer hardware running cryptographic algorithms" and nobody else cares.
Poof. Bitcoins gone.
:o
In general people who are younger, and more tech/computer savvy are the ones adopting this stuff with open arms. I don't think thats from naivety, but, rather familiarity and trust of the code/technology. I do recognize Bitcoin or any cryptocurrencies can go to 0, and so I will always want to have Gold/Silver. The problem with Gold/Silver is you can't transact them online with ease like you can with Bitcoins, and keep the same anonymity (if you choose.) I prefer having a code memorized in my head of how to decrypt my currency, and travel freely, than have physical anything, but that's based on preference. This entire issue splits the entire Gold/Silver community in half. If you notice it's more of the Silver people who like Bitcoin and more of the Gold people who think it's nutty/dangerous. I think there is something to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
My point is that I think there is a place for both, and to not rule out either. If Bitcoin crashes, it may just crash all the way down to $150, or something like that, which really isn't a crash but a correction. If it crashes to 0 it will because another cryptocurrency has taken it's place, which is why I hold Litecoin almost exclusively now, and recommend that to others as the way forward since I believe the protocol is superior to that of Bitcoin. I have no idea if I'm right about that though. It's an educated guess.
You can still store you wealth in Gold/Silver, and when you need to, sell them for a cryptocurrency and do online transactions ALL while staying out of the banking system. The ultimate point of this is to be free of the money changers.
I think Bittorrent has an alt. effect of spreading Hollywood & Microsoft into previously untapped markets.Quote:
Don't you think they would of shut down bit-torrent networks by now?
Most of it gets tapped at the civil level once a fledgling company, or movie rental takes hold. .gov/insurance co. steps in & caps it off again.
I'm a terrible seeder, I'm sorry. I just get my stuff then leave, really I'm terribly sorry :)
One would be nothing without the other.
When I first started reading about Bitcoins / Litecoins the process of mining Gold and Silver is what came to mind. The reason gold / silver is used as a medium of exchange is there is a finite amount, which gives it intrinsic value. But what gives BTC / LTC value is not only can it not be inflated into infinity is that you have removed the human element from the money / currency equation(corruption, fraud, oppression, lying, cheating, counterfeiting etc). Basically your trusting a code that a machine processes to confirm that the transaction / coin is genuine. I've been around machines all my life, and machines will only do what you tell it them to do. If you set a protocol that you cannot change the machine will following that protocol until its conclusion. It will do nothing else, it does not think, act or even care about it's self existence. It just is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
The benefit in all of this is that it threatens the very institutions that hold a monopoly on power for the past 500 years. If this currency or type of currency can really bring them to their knees what's not to like? I got into gold and silver to "stick it to them" as well as preserve my wealth. But I also see that it is controlled. We all know that JPM games the silver markets. There's no way 20 something should justify the price for an ounce of silver when the supply is limited and is a dual purpose metal. Same goes for gold. So that really opened my eyes seeing as how they keep the price suppressed to the point that it does not threaten them. They can drop it whenever they want, and will continue to do so until they are damn good and ready to let it rise.
I still hold all of my metals, but I'm also venturing into LTC mining, while I wait for my BTC ASIC to show up at my door step to start mining them. It's an investment, and I don't invest more than what I am comfortable in losing.
I know you meant young & dumb so I will forgive you. I'm only 44!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
I've heard pier to pier being compromised before.
Shami, the transaction shouldn't go quick & painless. It should be like making love. :)
I don't think either is dumber or smarter. There is wisdom in cautioning against it, but I feel we have no choice anymore, since we've tried the other route, and it hasn't gotten us any closer to freedom from the Money Changers. I want freedom for all humanity, and I'm willing to try something new and untested to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
Technology will either enslave you or free you. It only enslaves you if you don't let it free you first.
Same here, it's something different and has a really powerful potential. Whether it lives up to that potential is yet to be seen. Strap in and enjoy the ride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Was used as, and still not processed or yet undiscovered. You can guestimate but not be sure what lies untapped.Quote:
The reason gold / silver is used as a medium of exchange is there is a finite amount,
Now you're storing value that is easily convertible, yet no intrinsic (but for the notional unbreakable code). & has predetermined death phase.
Key is its all mostly still powered by fiat, and is already through half of its creation phase while still fledgling and powered by fiat.
The mining seems to be moving at break neck speeds for the overall creation phase till 2140 given, No?
Silver kills all Masons. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Your computer would never live without it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdrSP0V-KLg
Ps. this song also doesn't rock like alot of silver songs I know of.
When mine got stolen I called the interwebs police... They
should get back to me soon with some promising leads...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9CynvMlFyo
Is this a bubble, or the implementation of new technologies? Will it return back to the long term mean?
http://gailtheactuary.files.wordpres...d-fuel-use.png
As the bacteria in the petridish finishes up its sugar supply they start cannibalizing each other, and the population explosion turned into a nightmare...
Just giving an example. Just since something goes up parabolic doesn't mean it's crashing back to zero.
Here's maybe a better example, it's Microsoft stock (I'm borrowing BrotherJohnF's example from his video I just watched):
http://www.telco2research.com/custom...feb%202011.png
Parabolic rise from virtually nothing, and then a 50% correction. That's a healthy rally, NOT an overall bubble. The bubble is the top 50%, which gets corrected. This was a turning point in computer history since the vision Microsoft had was that the market would be driven by software, not by hardware. The people at Microsoft were correct about this and were greatly rewarded for their innovation.
If Bitcoin is successful it will possibly hit a peak (lets say $300) then crash down (lets say $150) and then stabilize, and then slowly go up over time...
That's a possible scenario.
Again, if it hits 0 I think it will because another cryptocurrency has taken its place, not because people have lost faith in it completely. In other words a smart trade in a collapsing cryptocurrency wouldn't be to cash out into dollars, but leap over into the next best cryptocurrency...
That's the thing, ximmyQuote:
Originally Posted by ximmy
You're young enough that you should be able to get out in the webs and Be your own Aeon Flux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
ooh.. then I could perform a little femdom on the bad man...
http://www.geek.com/apps/skype-malwa...ombie-1551332/
Quote:
A new piece of malware is floating around, but that seems like par for the course these days. What makes this malicious bit of code notable is the goal its creators have in mind. The malware is being spread via Skype messages and is designed to turn your PC into a remote Bitcoin mining rig without your knowledge or consent.
Bitcoin is a decentralized all-digital currency that has become quite trendy as of late. The value of one Bitcoin has recently skyrocketed to nearly $100, and then well over that point and back again. In the past, users could “mine” bitcoins by contributing CPU cycles to process Bitcoin transactions. As the number of Bitcoin users increased, it has — by design — started to take more effort to earn a single coin. This is because Bitcoin production is governed by an algorithm which ensures the supply is limited.
Effectively mining Bitcoins takes a lot of power at this point, which is why this piece of malware exists. By enslaving many computers, the authors can generate Bitcoins at essentially no cost. All it takes is a Skype message.
The target will receive a Skype message with an attention-grabbing phrase like, “this is my favorite picture of you.” Yes, this is an old trick, but it clearly still works. The user then clicks the link, which is obscured by a bit.ly address, and instead of downloading a photo, they will get a file called skype-img-04_04-2013.exe. This is, of course, the malware installer.
I still have this picture in my mind of a small predictable & dieing oil well trying to power the Las Vegas strip.
It just won't leave.
Watch the video I posted by BrotherJohnF above. He rebutts this article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlKwQEk31a4
http://youtu.be/VKEk7b2vfoQQuote:
Originally Posted by Horn
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/w...HappyDance.gif
Jesus. Won't be long before Justin Bieber releases his new Bitcoin album and the jew recording industry gets behind this.
Here's a new industry that's being created by bitcoins: girls taking their clothes off for bitcoins.
http://i.imgur.com/sRET8Gx.jpg
how's that for intrinsic value?
http://i.imgur.com/gzw0t4ml.jpg
Sold for 100 bitcoins.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170706.0
A $16.5 million dollar transaction went through today (69,471 BTC). Zero fees, paperwork, instant transfer.
http://blockchain.info/tx/5d9ef693d4...8761d9cddc103c
Here appears to be a fund set up so people like hedge funds can invest in bitcoins. Minimum account size is 100,000 euros.
https://exante.eu/press/news/266/
They manage your key for a 1% fee.
Once hedge funds go into bitcoin, it's price will go through the stratosphere.
Max Keiser might be working on this:
The actual tweet from his twitter account @maxkeiser: "I have a personal goal of getting hedgies involved to drive BTC to $1,000. | For non-US res. Exante.eu can hook you up with BTC ($100K min.)"
Take advantage of this opportunity. It's unique. We're actually ahead of the big money because they can't get their money into bitcoin at the moment. They aren't ballsy enough to risk doing it themselves because if you miss-type a single character of your bitcoin address you permanently lose everything. The exchanges aren't big enough or trustworthy enough for very big money. We're ahead of them this time.
And I'd personally go for bitcoins and not the others. At least hold some.
New high: $250
I recommend bitcoin above any other crypto currency. Why? Because bitcoin will become the back-end system for the financial industry. Few people will actually use bitcoins directly in the future.
There will be banks that you have an account with, just like today. Except everything will be denominated in bitcoins. Your bank account will be a bitcoin address. You can go to an atm, branch, or online, to withdraw or deposit.
Withdraws will be in any denomination you like. $1 to $1000000 and anything in between. That's because each note will be like a money order. You request the money order, put money on it, and can use it one time. If you lose it, it's gone. Unlike a money order, they will have no counter-party except for the bitcoin network itself. They can be put in a vault and stored for 10 years.
There will also be check-like notes you can request, which will have a special code on them from that specific bank. Banks will agree on these codes such that you can take it to another bank and the first bank will transfer bitcoins directly to the second bank. These check-like notes would be equivalent to banknotes like in the old days.
There will be no fractional reserve banking, because each bank account will be a bitcoin address. You can view the exact amount in your address (or any other address) by going to www.blockchain.info and typing it in. The bank will simply take care of holding the private key and provide insurance in case it gets lost or stolen.
Micro transaction networks can be formed on top of bitcoin. Basically, instantaneous, small purchases will be handled by the bank instantly, like email, and settled with the bitcoin network minutes later as the blocks are constructed.
Right now it's like the wild west, but it is the foundation upon which multiple financial systems will be constructed.
On the other hand, it's possible that the financial system will make a clone of bitcoin and announce they are standardizing on that specific coin version. In that case, nobody would hold previous coins and the value would be high from day 1 because it would be the agreed-upon standard.