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That really hit them hard this time of year. I have seen steam come from wet bales too. My family put up about 400 tons of alfalfa hay per year. We were very cautious about stacking any damp bales. But back then bales were only 100#, not these big one ton bales so it was fairly easy to tell if the bales were too wet to stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbleweed
Ammon Bundy postd a video on his fedbook page voicing his opposition to Trump not allowing the caravan of ilegals entry into th USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
I didn’t watch the video that Ammon Bundy made blasting Trump for not allowing the hoard of ileagals to enter the USA. I did read an article in the St. George Utah newspaper where Ammon and Cliven Bundy both voiced their opinions counter Trump’s stance. After he postrd that video his followers have beeen abandoning him like rats leaving a sinking ship.
He opened a Twatter account a couple of days ago, then yesterday announced he was closing it. The heat must be more than he wants to bear.
https://itmattershowyoustand.com/201...ration-policy/
Ammon Bundy Leaves Militia Movement After Criticizing Trump On Immigration Policy
Posted on December 6, 2018 by Doug Knowles |
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...3978455-28.jpgRob Kerr / AFP / Getty Images
For more than six years Ammon Bundy and his family amassed hundreds of followers and supporters willing to pick up their guns at a moment’s notice and rally to their side for a confrontation with the federal government.
Bundy led two armed standoffs against the feds in Nevada and Oregon, and his family quickly became the face of a growing militia movement, bringing a national spotlight to armed groups eager for an armed conflict with what they believed to be an overreaching government.
The militia groups, with members carrying a mix of right-wing, anti-government, and conspiratorial views, had been growing since 2008 thanks to their heavy use of social media and binding opposition to then-president Barack Obama. The standoffs in 2014 and 2016 made the Bundy family, including Ammon, leading figures in the movement.
Bundy knew most of his supporters stemmed from the political right, so when he logged on to Facebook last week to talk to his supporters in defense of the Central American caravan marching to the southern border, he knew he’d face some criticism.
“To group them all up like, frankly, our president has done — you know, trying to speak respectfully — but he has basically called them all criminals and said they’re not coming in here,” Bundy said in the video. “What about individuals, those who have come for reasons of need for their families, you know, the fathers and mothers and children that come here and were willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually.”
Bundy went on, dispelling conspiracy theories that billionaire George Soros was behind the migrant caravan or that terrorists were using the group to sneak into the US.
The reaction was immediate, with supporters instantly repudiating Bundy. People who traveled to his father’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, in 2014 during an armed standoff with federal agents over unpaid cattle grazing fees, said they regretting doing so. Others claimed Bundy was being paid by left-wing “globalists” to switch sides. Some told him they wished him dead, or that militias had never supported his family.
Bundy had no idea how swift the backlash would be.
“I expected to get a decent amount of pushback, but I also believed that I could explain to them why I’d taken those positions and why,” he told BuzzFeed News. “But you know, I’ve always had these kinds of thoughts that people were not really listening to the principles of things, that they had aligned with me for some other reasons, and that some of those [reasons] are good and some of those might not be, but this last video kind of confirmed that.”
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...44135663-1.png
Screenshot / Facebook
So on Tuesday, Bundy shut down his social media accounts and said he was stepping away from the public light and the “patriot groups” that had gained national attention for supporting the Nevada ranching family. The decision to quit wasn’t an easy one, Bundy said, but the movement’s unforgiving opposition to the migrant caravan and what he called a dangerous and blinding support of President Trump, left him with no choice.
“It’s like being in a room full of people in here, trying to teach, and no one is listening,” he told BuzzFeed News. “The vast majority seemed to hang on to what seemed like hate, and fear, and almost war mongering, and I don’t want to associate myself with war mongers.”
Bundy’s sudden exit marks a defining moment in the so-called “patriot movement,” one his family helped bolster over the past four years. Members of militia groups would talk about being part of the Bundy standoffs as a point of pride, a sort of street cred for militia.
While Bundy said he supports many of Trump’s policies and is grateful for his presidential pardon of the ranchers at the center of the 2016 standoff in Oregon, he disagrees with his depiction of immigrants at the border and his approach to governing.
“I believe President Trump, the best way I could explain it is that, he’s a nationalist, and a nationalist in my view makes the decision that best benefits the nation, not the individual,” Bundy said. “That is not freedom, and that is not what America was built upon.”
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...44135424-1.jpg
Jim Urquhart / Reuters
Protesters gather for rancher Cliven Bundy near Bunkerville, Nevada, in April 2014.
For those who have followed the Bundy clan and their clashes with the federal government, the 43-year-old’s defense of immigrants was not a complete surprise, even if it was to his supporters.
His father, Cliven Bundy, has previously defended immigrants from Mexico and Central America, citing their right to provide for their families as a human right — an opinion echoed by Ammon Bundy in his videos. Both Bundys have said they believe migrants have a legal right to apply for asylum, and that it is America’s duty to give them the opportunity.
And although the family has generated a mishmash of support from militias, conspiracists, sovereign citizens, right-wing politicians and critics of federal public lands, the Bundy’s ideology has always stemmed from their specific brand of Mormonism, emphasizing personal freedom, empathy toward the prosecuted, and conflict with the government.
“Fear is the opposite of faith, faith is the opposite of fear, and we have been asked by God to help, to be welcoming, to assist strangers, to not vex them,” he said in his video. “As we do that, the Lord is going to bless us and bless them.”
Religion has always played a central role in the Bundy family’s ideology, Mark Pitcavage, senior research fellow and an expert on right-wing extremism for the Anti-Defamation League told BuzzFeed News.
“Although their views are not orthodox, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is pretty welcoming to refugees,” he said.
Yet many of Bundy’s supporters are not members of the Mormon church, and their views about immigrants are more closely aligned with President Trump’s.
“[Bundy’s] followers come from several places in the right, but they are almost all from the far-right,” Pitcavage said. “There are very few parts of the far-right that are welcoming toward immigrants. They tend to be nativist or xenophobic.”
Brian Levin, director for the Center of For The Study of Hate and Extremism, said far-right groups, including alt-right and militia groups, have begun to show divisions and fracturing since the 2016 election.
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...44135487-5.jpg
Jim Urquhart / Reuters
Ammon Bundy (L) meets with Harney County Sheriff David Ward along a road south of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Oregon, January 7, 2016.
Many united in opposition to the Obama administration, and then in opposition of Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and then in support of President Trump. But Trump’s victory has left the groups without a target, and individual issues and topics have once again begun to split some of those groups.
“Once it changed from an insurgency into something else, once the left was thrown out of the hold of government the expectations for the far-right changed,” he said.
Simply put, he said: “Once they win, the bickering starts.”
Pitcavage doesn’t believe Ammon Bundy’s decision will split the militia movement, but the so-called patriot movement, which has for years pegged itself as an anti-establishment group aiming to curb the abuses of the government on its people, finds itself in a difficult position at the moment.
“The militia movement has been in this weird space, unlike anything its experienced in its previous history because someone they supported is the head of government,” he said.
The unequivocal support for the president is a big concern at the moment, Bundy said, and a factor in his decision to step away from the movement.
“Those on the right have been so fanatically loyal to him that any word of opposition to bring out light in what he might be doing that is incorrect draws hate,” Bundy said.
He then compared the support of Trump’s base to that of Hitler’s.
“The time we find ourselves in now that is closest found in history is Germany in the 1930s, and they had a leader that was loved, and it was the same kind of following,” he said. “I don’t want to say there is that extreme similarity, but it very well could go that way, and people just give up their thinking, their rights, and they give up their government because they were so willing to follow him.”
Other militia leaders who previously rallied to his side have called Bundy in recent days to offer private support and protection, he said, after his family received threats over the Facebook video. Some, Bundy said, told him they agreed with his critical views of Trump, but did not want to air their concerns publicly for fear of facing the same backlash.
For now, Bundy doesn’t want to be a figurehead for the militia movement and said he was considering writing a book about his experience.
“I think they have their leader,” Bundy said. “I think, you know, President Trump is clearly their leader, and I think wherever he tells them to go, they’ll go.”
Here is a response from a woman, Paula Hart who was one of Ammon’s supporters during the time he was in jail.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...&__tn__=%2C%3B
Quote:
Originally Posted by monty
An open letter to Ammon Bundy in regards to the border situation;
First off, I withdrew my support and stopped following you and your family a while back for reasons you obviously don't care to know, so nothing you've said in the past couple of weeks has made any real difference to me. I've only become aware of this because of all our mutual friends. I have taken the time to watch your videos and read your related posts.
You have every right to your opinions and I don't hate you for them. Honestly, I don't even disagree with them. I, too, think that we need proper vetting and that the ones that come in LEGALLY should not be given government assistance. I have no problem with that, and I don't think your followers do either, although many of us DO feel that unless or until we get our own house in order we shouldn't take in more houseguests.
What I DO have a problem with is this:
- You KNEW 5 minutes after your first video aired (11/15) that people seemed to be misunderstanding what you were actually saying by the responses you got. You just kind of sat back and let things ride-not going out of your way to CLEARLY correct the misunderstanding.
You posted a video link (11/19), about a pastor who joined the caravan and his take on it. Ignoring all the other videos that people were sharing with you of others who were reporting from within the caravan.
On 11/27 you made a post about your next show and listed the talking points. You also made a video about all the "hate" you were seeing because of it and how YOU had found a "middle" ground to the whole thing. Ironically, YOUR middle ground just happened to be the middle ground already in place...proper vetting and only legals allowed in. **scratches head**
On the 29th, you put up a petition to sponsor a REFUGEE family, posted a news clip about Cliven's thoughts, your NPR interview, your second segment on the Liberty Effect, and a post about how "Hate is easy. Love takes courage" You ignored what everyone was screaming about. Take care of our own FIRST. It really is hard to hear someone set up a sponsorship for others when our own fellow Americans aren't or can't even be helped. I'm not sure why you can't understand this.
On the 30th, you posted an LDS video and Bible verse on how we are supposed to treat travelers and foreigners, according to God. Yet ignoring ALL of the other Bible verses that talk about the rules God himself placed upon HIS nation in regards to foreigners wanting to come into it- even those posted by your fellow Mormons. Then, you made 9 seperate posts in relation to the issue of foreigners/immigrants/refugees. Posts that were intended solely to further poke at people already upset over the supposed "misunderstanding".
Today, you posted an article about Cliven's statement and ***FINALLY*** a post/meme CLEARLY CORRECTING and CLARIFYING what you really said in your first video 2 weeks prior. Sadly, you did it in a way that was intended to "spank" your followers, as if the entire thing was THEIR fault, alone.
-In the past 2 weeks, you let the misunderstanding grow. You told people that if they didn't see or feel things the way YOU did that THEY were "un-Christian, selfish, fearful, and ignorant of the TRUTH". You were arrogant, condescending, and too full of pride to LISTEN and RESPOND to all the comments, as if you and you alone are the only one who understands the situation, the Bible, the Constitution, and what's right and wrong for OUR country and your fellow Americans.
- You were in jail for a long time, and before that you were living in a beautiful home and running a business, so you may have a different perspective than most. Let me fill you in on a few things....
While you and all of the P3's were in prison, the thousands of people who supported you all were scrambling to raise awareness, raise funds for your commissary needs, attorney fees, the needs of your wives and children, and every little thing you all needed, and to help pay peoples way so they could be at the courthouses, jails, rallys, or whatever event there was. We held auctions to raise funds, people were making and selling things to earn money to be able to give to it all. We were bled dry. Do you know why?!!! Because most of us were barely making ends meet ourselves! We have families, jobs, needs, and lives of our own and ON TOP OF ALL THAT, we went even further in order to support all of you guys. YOU DEPENDED ON US and it took everything we had-or didn't have in most cases-to meet YOUR NEEDS. Did you catch that? It took 1,000's of us just to cover the needs of 50 men and their families!! Your fellow P3's, many times, told us to give the money we raised for them and their families to YOURS. Did you know that? There were times we couldn't even meet their needs, no matter how hard we tried, because everyone had just given to yours!
So, to hear you say that you started a petition to help FOREIGNERS, rather than those who stood with you and your family, our own homeless, veterans, or moms with kids, right here in our own backyard, who are fleeing domestic violence situations, felt like a slap in the face and people reacted to that. And you refused to acknowledge all those comments, except to tell people to "go support them, then".
Are you kidding me? Get out of the bubble you live in and take a look around! Things aren't the way they used to be. They aren't even close to how God intended them to be. Churches are about making money, NOT helping the needy. If they were, then your church would have been helping all of the Bundy's lessening the burden on us. People are living and dying on the streets in every city and town accross this nation. People aren't helping their neighbors like they used to because THEY CAN'T!!! Do you understand that- at all? American's are slaves to this system and are trying to survive while fighting to make it better and you have the audacity to tell us we are being "selfish and un-Christian" for not wanting to have to add even more people to the problem?!! That we hate those wanting and waiting to come here?!!! This isn't about hate, it's about being responsible and practical!
Why don't you seriously stop and think about THIS...where would YOU be today had no one been able to put a dime on YOUR commissary? Had we not raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for YOUR FREE attorneys? Had none of us been able to keep food in the bellies of YOUR wife and kids? Or clothes on their backs? Had we not been standing on the streets and sitting in the courthouses bringing attention to YOUR case?...because we were already tapped out from supporting FOREIGNERS INSTEAD? Seriously, think about this, Ammon. How would you feel if you were in our place? If you had to support yourself and your family, along with all the p3s and their families, and then we told you that we thought it would be "Christian and loving" to add 100,000+ more for you to care for and help. Overwhelmed? Welcome to America!
For me, it's more than all these things. It's more than your entitled, know-it-all, ungrateful, judgemental attitude toward the rest of us that is hard to swallow. It's the fact that you stirred up a hornets nest over a "misunderstanding" and then waited ***2 weeks*** to make a simple post clearly and concisely correcting it like you ***FINALLY*** did today. I'm sitting here trying to figure out how you thought any of that was "Christian" or "loving" on your part. Regardless, I wish you and your entire Bundy family the best from here on out.
I'm officially done.
~Paula Hart
December 2 at 6:49 AM
Here is the reason for Ammon Bundy’s statements:
And I believe this to be Trumps purpose too, apart from being the greatest friend of Israel foreverQuote:
Brian Levin, director for the Center of For The Study of Hate and Extremism, said far-right groups, including alt-right and militia groups, have begun to show divisions and fracturing since the 2016 election.
The Bundys have got quite the ranch. How about they set up a tent city for about 25,000 of the "migrants"? They shouldn't have any problem with the invaders butchering those cattle of theirs, either...wouldn't want to deny them for "reasons of need"...denying them would be "based on selfishness."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
In a video posted on Facebook, which has since been deleted, Bundy said Trump imparted a group stereotype on the caravan by calling them all criminals.
"But what about those who have come here for reasons of need?... What about the fathers, the mothers, the children, who have come here and are willing to go through the process to apply for asylum so they can come into this country and benefit from not having to be oppressed continually by criminals?” Bundy asked.
He characterized comments criticizing the caravan as being “based upon selfishness” because of the thought that if they enter the country, someone will lose something. Bundy added that “it’s all fear-based” and called basing arguments, motives and actions on fear a “very dangerous thing to do.”
Although a surprising stance for some, Bundy wasn’t the only member of his family to criticize how Trump handled the migrant caravan. On November 29, a day after his son posted on Facebook, Cliven told The Guardian that he still supports Trump, but disagreed with his stance on his signature campaign promise to build a wall.
“I really question his doctrine ever since he started it about building a wall,” Cliven said. “I don’t like walls. I think we oughta be able to get along with neighbors … Trump’s wall never did sit very good with me.”
With regard to the migrant caravan, Cliven said it’s hard to tell what the truth is. If the people coming are looking for refuge, as Americans, Cliven said people should have a heart and try to help.
And there's the problem!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
Member of not just a Judeo-"Christian" "church," but one whose multi-billion-dollar empire is dependent upon an influx of Latino converts.
The media bite "hate is easy, love takes courage" is something directly out of the extreme left's propaganda book.
I felt bad in not doing more for the Bundys in their time of crises. Not any more. I guess my intuition was inhibiting me from going further. Were they even for real?
Homeless American veterans > foreign "migrants"
Trump was intended to discredit "conservative" ideas for generations...for a period exceeding that of the remaining White generations. He is an actor, a Goyish "Emmanuel Goldstein"...a caricature to be hated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
Were the Bundys controlled "opposition" all along, as well? I mean, who doesn't get convicted by a Federal "court" of such blasphemy against the State?
Pete Santilli has filed a District of Columbia Bar Association complaint against Larry Klayman for not following through on a lawsuit filed against Gloria Navarro, Harry Reid, Rory Reid and Barrack Obama for the Bundy defendents unlawful detention.
https://itmattershowyoustand.com/por...larry-klayman/
https://www.scribd.com/document/3984...man#from_embed