Since the blockchain is public it would be pretty hard to naked short unlike metals where we are just supposed to trust that they it.
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Since the blockchain is public it would be pretty hard to naked short unlike metals where we are just supposed to trust that they it.
Use Bitcoin As A Currency, Get Wiped Out (The Government Likes It That Way)
Tuesday, November 19, 2013 at 8:24PM
Four years after its creation, folks are still arguing over what bitcoin is: “investment opportunity of the millennium,” “part of a societal revolution,” a security, a currency, a casino token? Whatever. But US regulators now have strategy for killing it as a currency.
The Senate is trying to wrap its brains around bitcoin. A sight to behold. Four years after its creation, folks are still arguing over what it is. For some, bitcoins aren’t even casino tokens (no fancy tokens). These non-physical entities traded on electronic exchanges “would likely be securities,” SEC Chairman Mary Jo White clarified in her letter to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs that is now investigating the matter. And as securities, they would be “subject to our regulation.” So a security, not a currency.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke attempted to dodge the issue, but didn’t quite make it when he wrote to the committee that the Fed “generally monitors developments in virtual currencies” – so it’s a currency, not a security? He conceded even that virtual currencies “may hold long-term promise, particularly if the innovations promote a faster, more secure, and more efficient payment system.”
Some sort of “private money” is what the German Ministry of Finance called it in August. Under German law, it could be used to settle multilateral transactions. Creating bitcoins (“mining”) was therefore “private money creation.” This emerged as an answer to MP Frank Schäffler’s query. Any gains from selling bitcoins after one year would be treated as capital gains for tax purposes. So it’s a security, in addition to private money? German banking supervisor Bafin also struggled with it, and finally considered it the equivalent to a foreign currency.
A miffed commenter on a Bloomberg article called it “the investment opportunity of the millennium” and “part of a societal revolution.” That would be the other end of the spectrum.
The Senate hearing on Monday was the culmination of a three-month investigation into virtual currencies, said committee chairman Sen. Tom Carper (D., Del.). “Virtual currencies, perhaps most notably bitcoin, have captured the imagination of some, struck fear among others, and confused the heck out of the rest of us, including me.” He was worried that they could facilitate the sale of “weapons, child pornography, and even murder-for-hire services.”
So you’d expect some saber-rattling by the government officials who’d been asked to testify. But instead, it practically turned into a love fest.
Officials from the Secret Service, the Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, and the Justice Department bragged to the committee about successful investigations of crimes where bitcoin or other virtual currencies were used, including the busts of Silk Road, eGold, and Liberty Reserve. They were confident that they knew how to tamp down on criminal use of virtual currencies. No one expressed outright alarm about the new world of bitcoin.
Since every transaction of every bitcoin is forever recorded and part of the system, Mythili Raman, acting assistant attorney general at the Justice Department’s criminal division, pointed out that “cash is still probably the best medium for laundering money.” And she admitted that “many virtual currency systems offer legitimate financial services and have the potential to promote more efficient global commerce.”
At the word legitimate, bitcoin soared. And I mean, SOARED.
Even if they don’t agree on what bitcoin is, regulators clearly don’t want to go through the hassles of banning it or policing it. So if it’s a “security” where in the end a lot of people will lose a lot of money, so be it. That happens every day with securities.
Yet they are fretting about transactions. It seems they would like to prevent bitcoin from competing as a currency with the dollar. But they don’t want to get their hands dirty. And they found out how to do that. It’s so simple, it’s beautiful: Encourage bitcoin to become so phenomenally volatile with such mindboggling jumps and brutal crashes that no one can afford to use it as a currency to buy or sell anything, licit or illicit.
Taking on the dizzying risks of getting crushed by price swings can be fun for speculators, but they would be debilitating for buyers or sellers. So you want to buy a house valued at $500,000 and pay in bitcoins. You sign the contract on September 19, when bitcoins change hands at $134 each. So the contract specifies that you have to pay 3,731 BTC at closing. Closing was last night, after bitcoin had soared to $900. The transaction price of the house, in dollar terms, would then be $3.36 million. You’d get crushed by a $2.86 million loss on a $500,000 house. You’d never, ever do that again.
Another day, the price could swing the other way, and then it would be the seller’s turn to get crushed. That’s the idea. If regulators can keep it that way, while allowing speculators to play with it and have fun with it and drive the price up and down maniacally, bitcoin will die as a currency that can be used to buy or sell anything.
Turns out, all this drama can actually happen in time-lapse. Not in weeks, but in hours. Yesterday around midnight, after an already crazy run-up, bitcoin traded for $575. Then, triggered by the word “legitimate” or some other word, or something in the water, it spiked to $900 for the briefest moment at around 5 p.m., only to crash to $502 by around 4:45 a.m. today. It since jumped to $745, and now, as I’m writing this, re-crashed to $640 $599 $489. You can’t do business with a “currency” like that. You can only have fun with it or lose your shirt. And the Fed, the SEC, and a myriad of other regulators can pat each other, or themselves, on the back.
http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/...ent-likes.html
No problems at all, they can easily create futures, and its derivatives, hundred times or more of real virtual crypto-money, just like they did with gold and silver, if you can convince investors and speculators, that they are better off holding the paper derivative of physical gold and silver than the real thing, they will not have any major problems convincing the public that the safest way of speculating the bitcoin wave is to buy their guaranteed product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
No-one is actually short-selling real silver or gold, they are short-selling the paper-promise to deliver silver or gold, and if they fail to deliver they settle the score in a different way. I wouldn't be surprised if 95% of the latest rise in the price of bitcoins have been driven by JPM and their partners in crime, buying up a significant chunk of real bit coins, so that they can start issuing, futures, derivatives, mainstream investment products on the bitcoin, with the ultimate aim of raking in profits by shorting the hell out of the market at regular intervals, just like they do with everything else, to increase their profits at the expense of their clients...
^This is the art of taking a one billion dollar market, make it a $500 Billion market, where the counterfeit is driving the price of the real thing, and have total control of the counterfeit, which is 100:1 to the real thing. If they feel like it they can continue to play this beast they have created for an annual income, or they can crash bitcoins to its intrinsic value (0), and rake in a few hundred Billions in one go...
:rolleyes:Quote:
Turns out, all this drama can actually happen in time-lapse. Not in weeks, but in hours. Yesterday around midnight, after an already crazy run-up, bitcoin traded for $575. Then, triggered by the word “legitimate” or some other word, or something in the water, it spiked to $900 for the briefest moment at around 5 p.m., only to crash to $502 by around 4:45 a.m. today. It since jumped to $745, and now, as I’m writing this, re-crashed to $640 $599 $489. You can’t do business with a “currency” like that. You can only have fun with it or lose your shirt. And the Fed, the SEC, and a myriad of other regulators can pat each other, or themselves, on the back.
How about stop manipulating the dollar and we'll see how violent it swings in value? Or even Gold or Silver for that matter. The free market isn't pretty, and for a currency that's only 4 years old searching for a price discovery you're going to have really high highs, and really low lows. Whoever wrote this has no clue how markets work apparently.
But that's the thing with Bitcoin. In order to get people to invest they'll want to know JPM's inventory so they'll have to publish their investment address. You can see what's in the wallet plain as day, there is no hiding it, manipulating the numbers it's right there in black and white. I don't think they'll be able to manipulate it how they are used to doing with Gold, Silver, and other commodities / currencies. Now they'll release numbers even though they've been caught lying COUNTLESS times already, they won't be able to really hide that. If they say, you're investing in 1000 BTC's and their wallet only has 5 someone will know they're lying immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
It would be equivalent of you wanting to invest in whatever product JPM has now, and you're ability to look at their accounting ledger. No way in HELL they will allow you to look at it now. But with BTC's you can look at anyone's wallet and see what they have in it. IF they publish the address.
It is in the Fed's interest to manipulate a stable dollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
It is in the Fed's interest to manipulate precious metals to be erratic so not to be a stable competing currency with their dollar...and it's working well I might add!
Bitcoin is also trying to compete...so it is the Fed's interest to do the same.
No such thing as a free market as long as the Fed exists. All markets are manipulated.
The Fed didn't take power only to give it back!
Don't underestimate the willful ignorance of the vast majority of the population. Butler has over decades exposed the bullion banks manipulation and short position of the PM market. But the reality is that the only thing needed for most people to reject all the readily available facts pointing out that the only safe way of investing in the PM market is to buy physical PM's, is if their personal trusted banker to tell them it is not safe. And people buy SLV and GLD instead... Sorry that is the reality!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
The prices in gold and silver haven't been as violent as with crypto's. Yeah it may be in their interests, but someone will know pretty quickly who is accumulating what. There are literally people that monitor blockchain.info (well scripts anyway) looking for large and small transactions going to and from large wallet addresses. The reason being is that they are most likely targeting them to see if they can break in and steal the coins.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
The FED's aren't used to doing business in this type of an open environment. They're used to doing everything in the dark. Yeah they may not give power back, but sometimes, just sometimes they can't stop when people decide to take it from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
How exactly does that work in their favor? Bankers I mean... If they buy a bunch up and hold they cause the price to rise. If they drop a ton on the market especially with China, India, and Russia getting on the scene they just performed a wealth transfer and the price will correct.
I get the physical manipulation have been watching it since back in 07 and I'm sure some of you guys much much longer. But they are unable to manipulate crypto's with the same ease they have in the past. It's easy to lie with the SLV and GLD saying they have this or that in inventory. It's not as easy with an online ledger that will say definitively what they do or do not have.
There is now what? 11-12 Million Bitcoins? Lets say the bankers bought up half that 5-6 million bitcoins the last year, at an average price of $120, an investment of $6-700 Million. Now they have enough of bitcoins for window dressing... Public starts to get convinced about the brilliance of bitcoins as an investment, but they figure its complicated and unsafe. Perfect time to start issue some Bitcoin futures on the normal exchanges to get the hedge funds and other early mainstream investors to buy, these futures are issued out of thin air by the banks that hold a significant amount of real bitcoins, so they actually don't cost a thing, unless you have to deliver real bitcoins for them. Then you can issue derivatives around these futures... Then you can base mainstream investment products around the futures and derivatives, which will track the performance of the bitcoin, without having a single bitcoin, you can close the loop by offering this investment product as settlement for anyone foolish enough to want a physical settlement on their future/derivative, you change the rules so only those who have bought futures on more than 5000 bitcoins can get a non-monetary settlement. Then as you have sold paper loosely based on the bitcoin to the tunes of 100:1, you just crash the price of bitcoin, and keep the cash that you sold it for. It helps to have the press in your hand so you can paint the image that bitcoins are now technologically outdated, combined with continued increased issuance of more bitcoin futures...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
That's going on the assumption that they've purchased 5-6 million coins before it got up to be where it's at now. It's a pretty safe bet that they haven't purchased anywhere near that amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
Now will they do so in the future? Quite possibly, but banks (at least here in the U.S. and Canada) have been particularly cold when comes to their stance on Bitcoin. They even said as such during the Senate hearing, that they don't see a forseeable way to make money from Bitcoins. Most bank revenue is off of service fee's (according to them) with Bitcoin they are completely sidelined. Bank isn't required. Right now Bitcoin exchanges are currently taking the place of a bank, open market (to purchase / buy Bitcoins), and international wire facility. All with minimul (almost none when doing a transfer with BTC's).
With the growing number of alternative crypto coins, it's like a multiheaded hydra. They are usually used to being the multiheaded hydra. They're not so used to having to deal with one on their own.
The percent of volume that just dictated the price in recent weeks is the only percentage needed. Demand for Bitcoin being stripped by rapid fluctuation.Quote:
That's going on the assumption that they've purchased 5-6 million coins before it got up to be where it's at now. It's a pretty safe bet that they haven't purchased anywhere near that amount.
Demand for Silver is stripped by decades of suppression and long standing supply chains, now vunerable supply chains.
Well until Bitcoin showed up to relieve them some.
Is it? It went from low tens to high hundreds in that time frame, in more than 95% of this time it's been trading below $200, and it made this 5000% or so increase in an atmosphere where its had multiples of bad news, concerning its safety/thefts, Silk Road confiscation, Mt Gox, the major exchange, trading problems, etc. Seems like this has only been minor hickups on the road to the pearly gates. I would say that it is highly likely that major actors have been carefully vacuuming the market for bitcoins, and they didn't pay anyway near the current prices as an average...Quote:
That's going on the assumption that they've purchased 5-6 million coins before it got up to be where it's at now. It's a pretty safe bet that they haven't purchased anywhere near that amount.
The "chinese market rush" by supposed knowledgeable traders in the field is something that needs to be investigated further.
Chinese are typically conservative and chip away coordinated as a Borg. Unless now they've become so desperately free that chomp like Piranha? If that's the case, they ain't got much longer before their supply chain runs out.
Fact is Bitcoin needed a much wider and whiter real trade market first as a exclusive currency before being speculated upon. It is a test bed for some other type, or eventually to be gobbled up by a larger Ripple fish. Its utility being the sales point, over any kind of limited and gold investment aspect.
Join us now in a moment of tribute, to its decentralized nothingness.
The virtual can not exist without the real, while the real can exist without virtual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OGO--In9NI
Now let's get on with finding ways to circumvent silicon as its processing thruput is capped. :)
Bitcoin: For Smuggling, Ordering Hits, Paying For College And Now - Going To Space
Richard Branson @richardbranson
Want to spend your #bitcoins? How about a ticket to space! Will discuss today live on @SquawkCNBC @virgingalactic8:20 AM - 22 Nov 2013
Bitcoin is crashing again (thank God).
Looks like $900 has strong resistance.
I could see it taking a few days to go through 900. In the meantime, buying opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Less than a month ago it was $200. Unless it touches that level again I don't think "crashing" is the proper term. My gut is telling me it needs to correct back to $400 or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
Usually what was strong resistance becomes strong support, so a healthy correction would be down to $200, but I really don't know what these are supposed to be worth... Right now around $800!Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks
I hear they are going to start using them to coat the lead connectors on PCboards, and phone jacksQuote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
so we should have some indication soon of their discovered price/value.
$880 on BitStamp.
$940 on MTGOX.
930 here: http://bitcoinity.org/markets
they are learning from this , dont think for a second that there notQuote:
Originally Posted by EE_
This recent Clif High appearance on Red Ice Radio gives a really good explanation of bitcoin, both technical and political implications. Advance to the middle, around 00:30:00 to hear it. 1 hour:
Quote:
Clif High - Hour 1 - Bandwidth Caps, Bitcoin, ISON & Nummo Origins
November 25, 2013
Clif High, along with his associate George Ure, developed the Web Bot, or the Web Bot Project in the late 1990s. It's an Internet bot software program or a web spider that originally was designed to predict stock market trends. Eventually it developed into something different. Now it's claimed to be able to predict future events by tracking keywords on the web. In the first hour of the program Clif and Henrik discuss the looming internet bandwidth caps that are slated to limit, restrict and control internet data consumption. The control of the internet comes in many different forms and the cap is the latest trick by the ISP monopolies, enabled by government, to make more money and to shut down streaming services. Clif talks about hackers and other alternatives to circumvent these restrictions. Later, we discuss the "wings" that have sprouted on comet ISON in the last few days, as it's getting closer to the sun. We move on to discuss the positive aspects of Bitcoin, why you should get involved and how they continue to increase in value, as more and more people get aboard. In the second hour, we continue to discuss the technicalities of Bitcoin and Litecoin. High describes how to purchase Bitcoin, the incentives of Bitcoin mining and how to maintain your digital wallet. Finally, we discuss human origins. Clif speaks more about the origin myth of the Nummo as retold by the Dogon tribe.
Great program Pat. Thanks.
Day-am bitcoin got slaughtered today. Down over 20% in one day - currently $693.94.
$1001 at gox right now.
One of the mining pools neared 51%, and apparently they've done a double-spending attack in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks
It's a big issue for bitcoin and needs to be address if bitcoin is going to stick around.
Yeah saw that. There was a red alert on reddit yesterday asking Miners to stop mining at ghash.io and join another pool. I've been at BTCGuild.com since I received my Gigahash miner late last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by vacuum
Here's the thread at reddit.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...ou_mine_there/
Epic collapse.
Attachment 6040
Yep, Gox most likely is finished after this. They've fucked up too many times with customers money. They aren't the only exchange in town anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
Why would I buy a Bitcoin anywhere eles but Mt. Gox?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
Because you can't withdraw your Bitcoins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
This is one of the disturbing things about bitcoins. Isn't this like the value of my FRNs being different depending upon which bank I deposit them into, by a factor of two?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ares
Doesn't Mt.Gox have secure wallets you can store it in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
I've been told Bitcoins aren't simply going to go away.
And the competition amongst competing digital currencies has gotten absurd. I'm not even sure what the analogy is here with fiat paper. It's worse than each country having its own currency. It's like each citizen being able to establish its own currency.
As a result, I no longer view it as currency. It's more like baseball cards, where the value is attached to "collectibility". With baseball cards, new manufacturers popped up every year and flooded the market with different varieties to choose from, and collectors would keep switching to the latest thing. This ultimately led to frustration and lack of cohesion in the desire for the underlying product. The result was a dramatic drop in demand and price.
When this is over, Bitcoin will have it's place in the annals of history along side the dot-com mania, beanie babies, housing mania, tulip mania and the dollar and stock market bubbles.
http://www.evancarmichael.com/Yutong.../PT-Barnum.jpg
Yeah, because we shouldn't be trying anything different. We should just continue to use whatever currency the government issues and controls right? Even if it's a gold backed currency, because hey they're the only game in town, even though they cannot even be trusted with a gold backed currency. Let's keep advocating for a gold backed currency give them complete authority to issue it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
I mean there isn't 2000+ years of currency debasement even with countries that used a gold backed currency. I'm sure it'll work out this time though. :rolleyes: