Swiss may grant unconditional income for all

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Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae

What if he's right though? How will we deal with automation? More and more people will be out of work as time goes on. How can free-market Capitalism work when most people aren't needed for work anymore?

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That is a good point. It is probably a better idea to reasonably tax the automated mass production, give people a live-able salary, than hire a bunch of government bureaucrats, that supposedly are there to administrate the welfare aparatus, but actually are more of a hassle in people's lives. A lot of people will still work, but maybe they choose to do work that are improving theirs and others around them lives, building boats, houses, gardening, sewing clothes, cooking, brewing beer, theater, alternative medicine, etc. I think a lot of human potential is tied up in fear of losing ones livelihood, and leads us to destructive ways...

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Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae

What if he's right though? How will we deal with automation? More and more people will be out of work as time goes on. How can free-market Capitalism work when most people aren't needed for work anymore?

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I'm just not a believer that there will be nothing for us to do because of automation. Sounds an awful lot like the patent office's infamous "nothing left to invent". The invention of the wheel didn't just leave people free for just cave drawings. The machines of the industrial age didn't leave us without work, the invention of the car wasn't the end-all of travel, and although the computer age automated menial jobs of counting and such, it created the need for skilled and highly lucrative jobs. No, each time, we just accomplished more, travelled farther, and gained new skills.

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Originally Posted by mick silver

if this is the case why would farmers feed the world

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To have a higher standard of living. If you have a base income it shouldn't make you rich. One of these biggest issues I see with welfare now is you can make more money on welfare than you can on a minimum wage job. Why would anyone work for minimum wage if they can make more on welfare?

I'm not saying I like this too guys. I'm just saying we need to find a way for society to deal with automation. People can't continue to live with the current system.

we will , and there will be alot less people in the world . i see this coming

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Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQ8wbhUq44

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Ramzpaul makes some good points but I think the free market still can provide solutions to this problem.

His main point was that robotics and computing would make the worker obsolete and that would make people poorer and poorer. I do agree that this is a problem but it is compounded by some other major factors.

Mainly over-taxation and over-regulation. Not only do these hamstring the people from making a living but they also generally do not apply to the large corporation that the people have to compete against.

If we were to take back control of government and only tax and regulate corporations who are legal fictions and seem to be the main beneficiaries of the rapid technological progress being made because they have the money to implement it.

If the people running the corporations want the asset and liability protections that a corporation provides then they can foot the bill to run the government. Currently they are getting away with murder, some of them literally with GMO's and pharmaceuticals that kill thousands and at the same time are exempt from certain regulations and taxes.

In an environment with no income tax, sales tax or property tax and little regulation at least the people would be in a position to innovate and then keep the fruits of their labor. Corporations would be on the hook to provide the funding for essential government services.

This solution makes a lot more sense then taxing the crap out of the productive to hand out to the less productive while giving the corporations a free pass.

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Originally Posted by mick silver

we will and there will be alot less people in the world . i see this coming

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The Elites vision is to simple wipe most of us out fix this automation problem. That's their solution.

The other solution is the guaranteed income. I can't think of any other right now.



The Elite are also going to be merging with the machines. Their future is on a silicon chip. At least, that's how they see it.

do what works.


i don't think this is necessarily a bad idea.

there's also the part about Switzerland being a democracy.


couldn't work in the US because of the racial make-up and other sociological divisions.

To expand on this problem of unfair taxation and regulation. Many things that would be a tax write off for a corp are not tax write offs for people. For example food should be a tax write off for income tax purposes, without food you could not work, it is essential and yet you cannot deduct it from your income tax. Transportation costs are also not a write off for the employee yet should be. If you cannot get to work how can you produce and pay taxes? Corporations can write off vehicle and travel expenses. Shelter should also be a tax write off for the average taxpayer, without shelter you could not be productive, it is essential. Corporations can write off the expenses associated with real estate. Mortgage or rent, utilities and property tax.

If you made food, transportation and shelter a write off how many people would have an income big enough to tax?

The property tax forces you to work in the system. If you don't pay it they will take your land. Without property tax at least once you bought land you could grow food and survive and they could never take it from you but because of property tax you are forced to work and interact with the system.

As usual the problem is government making unfair rules and then trying to force us to play along.

Look at the hobbit house that couple in the UK built as a solution to high property values? An innovative solution to the problem of overpriced real estate. Of course the local government is forcing them to tear it down even though they are not causing a problem for anyone.

Any basic income is going to be relatively small compared to if you took up a profession. So people will obviously compete just as heavily for the jobs that are available then as they do now. But people will also have the option of focusing their energy on research, art, writing, horticulture, writing free software, etc.

I don't know if it would work as it is being proposed. But there needs to be something along these lines at some point. Perhaps it will simply be a different way money is created, for example. What if the basic income was the only money that existed? People with huge robot factories would get rich by collecting up all the basic incomes from people buying their stuff. Or what if it becomes a bunch of ad hoc virtual currencies not administered (or easily taxable) by any government? What if people's values shift away from materialism, such that they're willing to spend more of their time and energy creating non-tangible things and exchanging them with others who do the same? Once technology provides for people's basic physical needs at a very low price then this situation becomes possible.

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How can free-market Capitalism work

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I'm thinking your very confused on the concept of '(high finance) capitalism'. The notions of 'capitalism*' and 'free enterprise' are mutually exclusive.

*capitalism and Communism being the two sides of the same dirty coin