Bartering And Horse Trading (Part Duh)

“Anything that you have today will become your treasure tomorrow......being from Cuba I know what I am talking about, in Cuba to find a straight nail on the floor is like finding a dollar bill here in the states.....collect all the nick knacks that you can afford and simply put it away and forget about it.....they will be your salvation tomorrow....right Agnut?”
Ponce

That’s right Ponce. With every action there should be a well informed and well considered reasoning behind it.

Not everything is going to become valuable; only things that people will need and cannot either afford new or find. This does cover many, many items but some of them will not be highly valued until they have been largely consumed. When I think about it, these things except home grown food are non renewable resources. They will get consumed and then what ? Increasing scarcity with a continued demand yields higher prices.

And some items should be sold and the money obtained should be reinvested. For example, art. I had 30 paintings on eBay recently and only two of them sold. I did get some ridiculously low offers but I would rather keep them, come Hell or high water. I have been watching the art market for many years and have come to the conclusion that the prices will continue to fall as our economy worsens. In the past, some investors bought art for its potential but I don’t think that it will be wise in our current environment as well as for the future. One way or the other we will continue the slide into third world status. We are becoming a banana republic without the bananas. No export, no recovery. This time it is truly different and therefore we will be in uncharted waters. Probably explains all the anguish in making even the best calculated prep decisions.

So why am I writing such grim news in a bartering and horse trading thread ? Well, we must realize that even some of the things we may buy now that are considered a bargain will be offered at even better prices in a collapse. That is, if our society holds together so that we would be comfortable in dealing out there in the public. If things do fall apart, bartering may become difficult for a while.

Right now our local thrift store is having a new type of sale in which a bag of hard bound books is $7 and a bag of softbound books is $5. I bought 3 bags yesterday and am heading back with one of my sons to buy more. How to books and the classics will be our focus. Yesterday I got a mint copy of the works of Ralph Waldo Emerson for about 50 cents. Many of the books are normally priced at $5 to $10 each. They are having this sale because they are receiving so many donations that they are overstocked. So I would have to pay as much as $100 individually but only $7 in a sale bag.

Is this still a bargain with the view of a future collapse ? Only time will tell; and perhaps a long time at that.

What is going to be valuable in the future ? Building materials, clothing, tools, toilet paper (you’re welcome Ponce), food, fuels, tires, and many other items we cannot or will not do without.

In the past several months, items for sale have not been moving. Nobody has much or even any discretionary money. If they see a great bargain they may have to pass on it in order to buy something more important, say something like food to feed their family or gas to get around.

Now with this Obamacare “Affordable Care”, I believe that there will be a shock wave the likes of which we have never experienced in our lives. Let me explain this and what I have been pondering for some time.

Say Obamacare has been implemented and we are all forced to pay an average of $250 per month for our health insurance. What about the $14,000 deductible before they pay for a medical cost ? How can anyone manage to save that contingency money with the way the economy is, even now ?

But that is only the tip of the turdberg floating around in the punchbowl. With most everyone paying out this approximately $250 per month, who will be buying things other that paying for food, gas, housing, utilities ? Can you imagine the multitude of stores that would suddenly find themselves with a disastrous drop in sales ? Would anyone go to the Hallmark store to buy a birthday card for $5 ? Or to the clothing store for designer clothing ? Or to the shoe store ? Movie theatres ? Sporting goods ? Fuggetaboutit !

Are you getting the picture of just how devastating the added costs of Obamacare will be to your local community as well as throughout the whole nation ?

McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, all other fast food outlets ? And what about all the middle class sit down restaurants and upper scale fine dining places ?

Who could afford a vacation to Hawaii or to visit a distant relative ? Are the airlines going to do better or much worse ? A no brainer, huh ?

We are talking about tearing some $3,000 off the yearly take home pay of the American worker or retired person. And from what I have been reading, it may be much higher in some financial situations.

What to do, what to do.

Well, since we are being herded into what has been described as “austerity”, we should make the best of it. Why drive ourselves crazy to “get ahead” ? Why buy a new car rather than fix the old one ? Why remodel the kitchen instead of keep the one we have in tip top condition ? Why buy new clothes when we have a closet full of used clothing ?

In fact, why spend any money for anything new except socks and underwear (and some other personal necessities that even I am too squeamish about mentioning) ?

What do you think I have been doing for years ? I drive a 23 year old truck that I bought for $2600. Paid cash so no interest payments and have only liability insurance. I buy my clothes at garage sales and thrift stores. I drive diesel and other high MPG cars and then only use them when absolutely needed. I rarely eat out. I buy most all food on sale and stock up enough until the next sale. And several other cost cutting habits.

On the other hand I do buy used books, records, CDs, DVDs and videotapes. That is my big extravagance; I cut out cable TV a few months ago and except for an occasional nature show and this season’s Big Bang Theory series I do not miss TV. I save $120 a month and this allows me to accumulate a library of entertainment far better than what the TV has to offer. Also I own a copy of it that I can watch any time I want or loan it to a friend or even sell it and get my money back for the next purchase. It is empowering. Oh; and no more commercials either. Take that Madison Avenue !

Also I barter for hay for our cattle. We get all kinds of fruits and veggies for free just by picking them up. Once in a while I get a car for free; sure it needs work but I am a mechanic and can fix it for my labor and parts at wholesale.

With the way I do all these things I have more time to do what I want when I want. I’m not saying I have lots of free time because I am busy every day. The key is I am getting to do what I want to do, not forced to do. Although I may not have a lot of money, I have never felt so rich in my life. Depends on what one defines as being rich. I’ve been financially rich and I’ve been happy but I have never been financially rich and happy at the same time. I guess it’s just not for me.

My family has been living in the future we perceive; this way the transition’s shock will hopefully be lessened.

In closing, does anyone in their right mind think that this Obamacare will be good for America’s future ?

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hi Agnut. I always enjoy your posts. Your thinking rings true to my Yankee instincts. To answer your question about Obama Care or Zero Care as it should be called; I agree that it is the absolute worst thing that could possibly be implemented, or attempted, because I believe it will be an enormous fiasco. I will not comply. I will eschew it for religious reasons if that is what it takes. I will not be forced to buy a product I do not want and feel is dangerous to my very existence.

'Land of the Free' my ass!

Hi gun driller, thanks, your post #199 made me think. Aluminum prices will rise as the dollar falls but if such a situation unfolds, will there be demand for scrap aluminum ? Seems like we are on the cusp of tremendous financial changes and I can’t envision a great revival of industrial activity. Rather the contrary. I feel that we have long ago passed below our having discretionary money to a level of day to day survival. This is what I see all around me, at least in my local area. And from what I read, other areas are experiencing the same or worse. I am not a gloomster but feel that I must face the facts as I see them and ACT accordingly.

With that said, I haven’t been going garage sailing for several weeks. In the first place, the pickings have been mighty slim with low volume of sales as well as high prices asked for goods. It seems to me that sellers perspective has changed from getting rid of unwanted items to trying to get the highest price they can. Behind this change may be a sense of desperation in their outlook for their future. It must have become obvious to even the most brain dead that things are bad and getting worse. There comes a time when the herd senses danger and stampedes.

This post is to put us all on notification that things have changed regarding bartering and horse trading. And we must understand the changes and their implications and adapt accordingly.

It has only been a few months since I ceased going to garage, estate and moving sales. First, they have been gradually getting less rewarding. Second, they have been getting less in number which would require my traveling much further distances in order to find good deals. More time and fuel burned always have to be considered.

So what to do, what to do.

Well, we are moving into the winter months when things traditionally slow down. So seasonality must be taken into account. However, last summer I noticed several garage sales in which there were ladies with small children selling a lot of items that had almost no value. It appeared as though they were trying to get even a few dollars out of desperation. I had not seen this in previous summer sales. What this means to me is that many folks are hanging on by their nails. The big monthly expenses such as rent, food, transportation may have been covered by a steady job but ongoing price increases have been eroding purchasing power to the point that many find themselves standing at their financial precipice.

We all are facing the Christmas that wasn’t or if you prefer the winter of our discontent. Regarding Christmas presents, I have been giving away items I had purchased over the years. Some of these items that were $50 new I had gotten for $5.

A while ago I wrote that I had ended cable TV, a monthly savings of $120. Now I buy DVD movies for $1 to $2 each. No commercials and a much more entertaining evening. I could buy over 60 movies a month and have no more expenses. But I don’t find that many DVDs (maybe 30 per month) ; after a while I have a huge library of great movies that can be shared, gifted and/or sold. Also high speed internet offers more entertainment than I have time for. This is a sign to me that I shouldn’t overindulge but rather take care of business. The business of preparing for the future. Entertainment to excess is a manifestation of denial. There I said it.

I know people that sit around all day and watch the TV. It appears as though they are standing still while life’s changes are overtaking them. And lately I have seen that they are in financial difficulties. It has finally caught up to them. They have lived the good life until now and put aside no savings for emergencies. The first major expense will be like running into a brick wall. I have a lot of compassion for them since I have in the past year experienced more difficulty in maintaining stability in my own life. Even with the mental tools I have developed for dealing I have felt the recent difference. I can only imagine the desperation of those who have no abilities to adapt to the changes.

Instead of going to garage sales I have been going to thrift stores buying many items. 12 pairs of blue jeans for about $1 each. DVD movies for $1 to $2. Appliances for 5 to 10 percent of their new price. Lots of little gadgets I need or will need. Things to barter later.

I wrote that connections we make can become invaluable. The other day I was offered a Kubota diesel tractor with a Woods brush hog and a German 4 foot tiller. I jumped on it and it sits outside my front door. I don’t know how soon I can get to it but it is an asset that I can use here on the ranch. By the way, I got it for $100 plus another $100 to have it all moved.

And speaking of “the ranch”, I am planning to not replace our steers but to slowly let them decrease while building a hog enclosure. Lots less land use which may instead be for several earth berm greenhouses in the future. You see, the beef from the steers is not really profitable but the only advantage is that we know what our steers have been eating; no chemicals either. Also, raising pigs is known as a “mortgage mender”. It should greatly help expenses around here. I have checked around and piglets are spoken for long before they are ready for market (the freezer). Food, shelter, transportation and clothing. The first is food because without it, nothing else matters. What will be in demand in the future ? Raising pigs sounds like a good idea. I will let you know as I find out more. Raising pigs is a renewable resource just as raising fruits and vegetables.

By the way, you may have read that Smithfield, the largest hog raising and processing outfit, has been sold to the Chinese. Do you think that we will get the pork or the Chinese will ? Right !

We are almost finished with building a 10 by 12 foot shed for fruit and veggie storage. Many of the materials I bought in the past have gone into the shed. I have an excellent carpenter who I have been trading some woodworking equipment and some cash for his building the shed. Even the foam insulation sheets that were almost $20 new that I bought for $1 are being used. And instead of using 2x4s we are using 2x6s that I got for about 60 cents in a past deal. So it isn’t costing near as much as if I had to buy all the materials at retail. And I’m getting a much more durable building. Next year if things go as planned, this carpenter will build the pig enclosure.

With all of the threats of Nuclear war or EMP disaster, do you think that America will be destroyed with all the foreign investments here ? That would be about as intelligent a rich man blowing up his own bank. And besides if I am wrong, it won’t matter. There is nothing I can do about it except move out of country and that is just not acceptable. No, no, I think things will be very hard for those in debt (aka financial slavery) and unprepared but for those of us who prepared we will be needed and rewarded.

The filthiest four letter word in the English language is debt.

I make up these little quotes to remind myself to stay focused on the future and what kind of life I want to live. As best as I could I lived life in the way I envisioned how life would be in the future. This way the transition would be much easier for my family and me. And it hasn’t been bad along the way. An old Dodge diesel truck but no debt. Used items, more than I could afford if bought new. But no debt. Food stored away but no debt. And many prep and bartering items put away for the future. And again no debt.

I know this post has rambled on but there are some things I felt I had to say. The whole playing field is changing and we must change in order to win. The deals are out there but perhaps in different locations and different situations; you need to be resourceful in seeking them out. This is the fun of bartering and horse trading; the challenging ourselves in what we can do. I still surprise myself with all there is just laying out there waiting for someone with the imagination to turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse. Jingling with gold and silver coins, of course.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I have seen the same thing in northeast CT Agnut. Garbage being sold... little plastic toys, christmas lights, worthless things that at best could be burned for heat.

The hunt requires much travel and many visits. My hit/miss ratio has gone down so much that I stopped going out too. Also, I have little space for anything more. I hate buying things new at retail stores, but I may have to resort to a few.

Yes- the times are getting desperate. My wife wanted to chip in and help a young family. I told her to be very cautious about doing this anymore. It must be in secret and it must be assured that you are doing the right thing. Also, we are not flooded with funds... especially since we still have mortgage debt and college costs staring us in the face. I have to keep telling her... if you think there are desperate people now, you haven't seen anything yet.

No debt. That is also my mantra here. NO DEBT!

Thanks woodman. I noticed that you joined GS-US the same month I did but you have over 6 times the posts I do. I guess I’m more long winded. HaHa

Yeah, this Obamacare (Obama scare or Obama scar your choice) looks like a healthcare version of the Syrian attack fiasco. And now with the impending Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP for short. Sounds like we will need extra TP for the TPP), I expect another fiasco in the making.

In my last post I said that I haven’t been going to garage sales but finding other opportunities. The other day someone told me that he was wanting to get rid of all kinds of construction parts. I went over there and got thousands of nails, many new hinges, PVC pipe connectors, new stovepipes and fittings, buckets of washers, concrete nails and shot charges, and a whole lot of other odds and ends. I also got a 4 step staircase that can be modified for our new storage shed. I asked around and he also had a tractor plow blade that may be used on the Kubota tractor I just got. He said that I could have it and he would load it onto my trailer. He is really a great guy, the same one my son and I took our log splitter to his place a couple of days and helped him. What goes around comes around.

Gotta go; my carpenter friend should be coming over soon to put up the shed shelves and finish the insulation.

Don’t be concerned about the Oblamacare; it will probably be put off till after the 2016 elections when Hillary comes to bat. Just kidding (I hope).

Best wishes,
Agnut

Land of the flee and home of the slave ? Not on my watch !

when i was in college, i used to sell scrap.

i remember steel got about 1 cent a pound, and aluminum maybe 50 cents a pound - depending on the grade.

now steel gets about 5 cents a pound (dirty scrap, AKA 'baling') and aluminum - the same.


i'm not sure why steel has climbed the last 20-30 years, but not aluminum. must have something to do with mine supply & the cost of energy.


i have a neighbor who wants a "gaming computer" - but has no money. he works part time (would like more, but that's the employment situation in the US)

i'm thinking about building him one from old parts and then trading that for his TIME. heck, i'd be happy to get 3 hours out of an old Athlon system with a faster AGP graphics card.

so that may be part of the way it is in the Bush-Obama economy.

of course, i don't want him to hurt himself working for me. so i'll probably just having him carry buckets of sand uphill (up the driveway), and "bagged and tagged" (IAW Mil-STD-130, i spent 9 years of my life working somewhere where EVERY drawing had the "Bag and Tag IAW Mil-STD-130" Note on it) boxes to my storage side yard.

i have a problem with condensing humidity, so i am learning to wrap things in dry burlap (like a painting drop cloth) and then bag them.


i lost a few $1000 of machine tools to rust in 2012, actually i can use them but i couldn't sell them.


i am taking a pile of things to another neighbor who has had a permanent garage sale the last 6 weeks. he is very knowledgeable about machine tools so i am basically trying to score brownie points. some people call this 'social capital'. e.g. a set of tire chains that isn't rusty is a good thing to donate to a neighbor's garage sale. they can sell them for $20 and still save money for the buyer, who would pay $50+ for good chains.


so i guess if you can use bartered items to trade for a neighbor's labor, or to help a neighbor whom you plan on hiring a few months in the future (sounds kind of Machiavellian, i guess), well, even in a Depression-ish economy, those bartered items are still worth something.

something else i found is that some things really make an impression. one of the guys at the scrap yard, his wife likes a certain size of Christmas tree lights. so i gave him every pack of bulbs that size i had.

he, in turn, gave me 60% as a grade for copper wire, for a box of wire that his co-worker said could only get 30% (which they used to pay 60% for). 60% gets about $1 a pound, so that little change in grade makes a difference.


perhaps another example of "Barter-ology" -

http://s403998394.onlinehome.us/DSCN8302_+__.jpg
http://s403998394.onlinehome.us/DSCN8310_+_+__.jpg

... the willingness to fix things ... but don't spend too much time because there's PLENTY of work to do.


i didn't want to spend $10 to $20 on a new good USB mouse, so i fixed a broken one. took about 20 minutes.

Hi Spectrism. Maybe visiting the thrift stores would yield some bargains. I haven’t been to an auction for years but hear of some great deals being made there. Also, some companies closing down and liquidating inventory and furniture and shelving could be good. There is an outfit that deals in shelving only and seems to be doing well. Maybe finding a good car deal and reselling could work.

On the other hand, with winter coming, it may be a good time to organize and get ready for the after Christmas sales. I don’t mean the ones in the stores but the private sales by those who have to sell to pay for their foolish holiday buying. I think that there will be some opportunities there.

I have a VW Jetta to fix, a VW pop top camper to restore, a VW Scirocco (now diesel) to finish, a Kubota tractor to fix, eleven VW engine cases to line bore, loads of car parts, loads of other items to sell, lots of paintings to sell and so much more that I can’t keep it all in my head. Oh, loads of aluminum transmission cases to strip for a scrap load. Not to mention all the steel scrap I need to load and sell. This is only a small part of what I am looking at in the coming months. Lord have mercy !

So you see, the deals I made in the past are now accumulated so that I don’t have to search them out in the winter months. They are right here staring me in the face. This is why I haven’t written much lately; buried up to the eyeballs. And with winter coming I have to anticipate working mostly indoors and first finish several outside projects.

And yeah, the times are getting desperate. Now may be the time to appraise our connections with family and friends and how we will gather together for support and protection. As they say, there is strength in numbers. Spectrism, you told your wife to be very cautious in helping others. Almost invariably, they are in need because of the decisions they made in the past. These are lessons that have to be learned, sometimes the hard way.

I believe that so many Americans are and will be in such dire situations because they took from the future and spent it in the past and present. This is how debt is accumulated and it is manageable until it becomes unmanageable ( and therefore a horror show). Even ants and squirrels put away provisions for the winter. Says a lot about the lack of common sense among us humans, supposedly the most highly intelligent. A big double DUH goes out here.

Everything you give away will later be something that you may desperately need in the future. You may ask your wife how she or you will replace what she is thinking of giving away. Maybe getting a second job so that you could have more to give away ? You see my point ?

I don’t mean to be a curmudgeon here but there is charity and then there is giving away your own future. When I have given to others, they almost always want to give something in return. And we should let them, for it is a give and take relationship in which the books need to get balanced. It has to do with self respect and friendship. So giving without getting in return leaves the recipient feeling a lesser individual. I didn’t start out this way in my giving but through the years learned that this is the way it works.

I sometimes wonder if this huge welfare program to the gibsmedats is having a similar outcome. They feel lessened in their and others’ eyes when they cannot return the “favor”. By giving them money for no work, maybe we are saying that their work is worthless and the money is only given to keep them from hurting us. Of course this builds up tremendous resentment. Where there is no pride in one’s contribution to society there is no self respect. And where there is no self respect there is no legitimate society. Just a thought.

When I am overwhelmed with things to do, which is daily, I make a list with the date at the top. I list the things to do down the page. Next I write the numbers to the left of the thing to do in the order/priority in which they need to be done. When each one is done I draw a line through the chore. This is the best way I have found to keep my life organized and feel a sense of accomplishment when I look at the page with all the lines drawn through the chores. Sort of patting myself on the back. Also this clears my head from having to remember a multitude of details to do and I don’t forget some of the little things I have to do. At the end of the day I begin tomorrow’s page beginning with the things I didn’t get to. Hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by agnut

When I am overwhelmed with things to do, which is daily, I make a list with the date at the top. I list the things to do down the page. Next I write the numbers to the left of the thing to do in the order/priority in which they need to be done. When each one is done I draw a line through the chore. This is the best way I have found to keep my life organized and feel a sense of accomplishment when I look at the page with all the lines drawn through the chores. Sort of patting myself on the back. Also this clears my head from having to remember a multitude of details to do and I don’t forget some of the little things I have to do. At the end of the day I begin tomorrow’s page beginning with the things I didn’t get to. Hope this helps.

---

that sounds like me, although my lists are not as organized as yours.

when the lists are done, i put them in a folder labelled "clipboard overflow" (literally.)

then i date the folders, and archive them.

about a month ago i was burning some wood and threw out a year's worth of "clipboard overflow" folders - it's a lot faster than a paper shredder AND the ash contains close to 100% organic potassium.


the ash from my wood fires goes into the compost piles.

Hey all, I just read this thread and thought it would be good for some reflecting about our own world :

When people from Glasnost Eastern Europe first came here, they could not believe it.

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/showt...not-believe-it.

One sentence especially struck me :

“We are the envy of the world and the only people who do not know it is us.”


Best wishes,

Agnut

PS I still owe a response to gundriller two posts and will respond as soon as time permits.

Hi gun driller, some very good ideas in your posts. The information we share can be so uplifting to others that it is impossible to estimate how much effect we are having upon others both in its enormity of impact as well as its possible wide dissemination. This is why my closing quote is what it is. Emerson lived in a time in which there was no television, radio, telephone and other distractions from truths. When everyone was not looking at their watch continually, timing all their actions like racehorses.

I cannot emphasize this enough that we MUST help others whenever and wherever we can do so. I feel that this caring for those around us and helping others is a mindset that has been largely lost in the confusion of our whirlwind lives. Relative to Emerson’s time we are like the old cowboy observation that “he is going so fast that he is passing up more than he is catching up to”. Well, we are missing so much in our haste to “get ahead” that we lose our head in the endeavors. What a funny way of imprisoning ourselves; not haha funny but odd funny.

It is 3:30 AM and I have slept only a few hours but my mind is clear ( take this with a grain of salt since my mind is telling me that my mind is clear) and I can’t refuse sharing some thoughts. First one is that earlier this evening a recent friend brought a friend of hers over to meet me. She was so excited over the phone that she wanted to come over right away and introduce this friend of hers. Well, when she arrived I was in my workshop building a transmission and when this yet to be introduced friend walked in, we both looked at each other and laughed because we already knew each other ! My new friend hesitated and then began laughing too when she got the good natured social joke as it were. Just then as we were all laughing I felt an uplifting that I can only described as pure joy.

We talked for a while and then went into the house where I began talking about colloidal silver first and then about a new personal discovery; diatomaceous earth (DE for short). I pulled up some DE websites from Google that had lists of testimonials which we read together. You see, I have been taking DE daily for 157 days and counting. My personal results have been new hair growth, 20 pounds weight loss, increased stamina, and regular bowel movements. DE carries off heavy metals which may have protective properties against aluminum poisoning which has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease. DE also kills all kinds of parasites such as round worms, pin worms and others. I have read that about 85 to 90 percent of folks have parasites but most don’t know it. There are many other benefits from using DE and they are found in the testimonials of the websites below. But the best I saved for last.

For the past 10 years or so I have had outbreaks on my hands which specialists diagnosed as either psoriasis or eczema. Ugly and painful is the best description. Nothing they prescribed helped. For a longtime I did not notice that my recurring bouts with my hand outbreaks had ceased after taking DE. I felt foolish to have not picked up on it earlier but the nature of healing from a malady is its absence. No more hands with sores all over them taking several weeks to go away. No more embarrassment when shopping or with friends. The only relief when afflicted was that I could hold my hands under a stream of very hot water where the relief was indescribable except to say almost orgasmic.

So if you have or a friend has either psoriasis or eczema, tell them about DE and what it can do. And don’t neglect to read of all the other benefits of using DE; they are many I haven’t covered.



I made up a couple of bottles of DE and gave them to the ladies who were now very excited to try this new potent relief.

By the way I bought my DE at the local feed store although I don’t necessarily recommend it as opposed to buying what is called human grade DE. Personally I don’t see the difference except cost. But that is for you to decide. If it is good enough for my cows, chickens, dog and cat it is good enough for me. Just do not use the swimming pool filter DE; it is very bad for you from what I have read.

As I have been writing this post I have been making side notes of who to call to tell them about DE and what it can do for their health.


http://www.earthworkshealth.com/huma...stimonials.php

http://totalyouwellness.com/?cat=12

I know that this post isn’t exactly about bartering and horse trading in the usual sense but when I think about it, aren’t all of the interactions we have with each other a sort of trading knowledge and experiences ?

So here’s hoping that this DE post gets disseminated virally (so to speak).

Best wishes,

agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.”
Mahatma Gandhi

Hi again gundriller. Yeah, the price of scrap aluminum has gone nowhere for a long time. It was about 50 cents a pound 30 years ago and still is in most places. Even if it were 75 cents it would still be a joke what with all the inflation and devaluation of the dollar through those decades.

Your computer game trade for labor sounds like the labor trade I did for a bicycle a while back. I have checked back to see that the young man was still happy with the trade and he is. I believe that a trade or deal is good when everybody wins. This keeps a clean slate for all the future deals we may make as well as builds relationships and reputations.

I also have a problem with humidity and have had a few tools get surface rust. The Pacific northwest isn’t like southern California where I came from and everything has to be protected here or it turns to junk in a few years. Right now it is 29 degrees and I still need to drain the fuel out of my chain saws, mowers and other equipment as well as check for antifreeze in all vehicles before it gets so cold that it cracks engine blocks.

We don’t own anything in this world but only have use of it for a time since we are mortal. This way, I don’t get attached to things. I look at their utility and possible future use for my family when I am gone.

Your tire chain gift was wise. Giving almost always comes back, sometimes in things far beyond mere monetary gain. You might say that the act of giving is a gift you give to yourself. Just a couple of days ago I gave a Jack LaLane juicer to a friend who has 4 children. It is just sitting around not doing me any good; I already have 3 other juicers. The only reason I even had the Jack LaLane model was that it is huge and powerful and has a large opening for the fruits and veggies and I wondered if it would be something that I would want in my kitchen. So my friend will tell me if it works as well as I have wondered. And if I want one I will find it in due time. To be in no hurry is also a wise position.

Great idea on the light bulb trade for higher copper price. A slick move indeed.

And I like your neologism "Barter-ology" . It made me laugh, especially since my son and I had watched The Simpson Movie last night.

God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
Voltaire

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

If your life is rich, aren’t you rich ?

Good posts all. Will look into the DE Agnut. Not too many deals lately, cleaned out a bunch of stuff to make more room for longterm tangibles. Scrap metal has definantly gone down. A year or two ago I hauled a VW golf body for my bro in law to the scrap yard and he got almost 400 bucks for it. It was totally stipped of the engine, tranny, axles, wheels, everything. We took one a couple days ago which was a VW Jetta and only got $130. This was a heavier car and still had the rear axle and two wheels attached. Shows the world economy is in the crapper with nobody building anything out of steel anyway. Something else to note about the scrap yard was there were no small time scrappers there with their trailers full of old washers and dryers, ac handlers etc. Only a few large trucks hauling for big operations. We didn't even have to wait to get weighed which usually there's at least three or four trucks ahead of us. And speaking of bartering and horse trading, for hauling the car for him he filled up my truck with diesel and bought me a 18 pack of Natty light. Not bad for 2 hours work!

Hi govcheetos. Yep, not many deals here either. I’m occupied with doing several projects around the house, including cleaning out and organizing stuff as you mentioned.

Sadly, scrap metal prices are down. America’s demand has also been shipped to Asia along with manufacturing and jobs. And Asia is not buying scrap metals like they had in the past. As I read, China has many problems of their own. And Japan ?

The sooner we face the fact that we are becoming a “banana republic without the bananas” (perhaps with a dictator too), the sooner we can adapt to the fact that we are in a Depression.

No more fancy clothes, vacations, dinners out, joy riding, expensive toys. This includes no more additional debt. Americans are tapped out and deeply in debt. You would think that they would stop getting deeper in debt but I have read that they have been putting more on their credit cards. Insanity ! They are in a prison of their own making.

For this reason I have no debts. You see, for several years I have been living with the attitude that I am living in a Depression and have acted accordingly to the best of my understanding. I must admit that I am not that good at it; I had thought that it would be fairly easy but few have no idea how much this attitude encompasses. I was talking with my younger sister last night who said that I needed a vacation. I told her that I didn’t take vacations; too expensive and I couldn’t spare the time away from things that needed to be done at home. She doesn’t get it; not yet anyhow.

I still pick up small appliances like crock pots, blenders, mixers, toasters, microwaves and others that are good for trading as well as good will. I give most away and it usually comes back in one form or another. Lately we got two home made apple pies and 8 jars of home made preserves. You can’t buy that in the local markets.

I must have 15 to 20 extra pairs of jeans in my size; got them for anywhere from 80 cents to two bucks. My son also raids the thrift stores and has become quite the discriminating buyer. He didn’t in the past but has been watching me and seen the wisdom of what I have been doing. Sad to say that so many of the young don’t get it and are still spending when they should be saving and buying the steals that are out there. I know that ego has a lot to do with it but as I have written before, an ego to have the newest and best can be bankrupting.

With the cold weather it is easier to go to thrift stores for bargains. I got 17 great DVDs for $1.80 each. And videotapes are only 25 or 50 cents each. They are all over the place and a wide variety too. Now that’s cheap entertainment !

By the way I’ve lately seen ladies in the thrift stores buying stacks of videotapes. I take this as a sign of the worsening times. The local Blockbuster store just shut down and now there is no video store in town. With the theater at about $7 per ticket and popcorn about the same, I won’t be surprised to see them close in the future.

I also bought 19 name brand shirts from the local thrift store for a total of $8.50. It was an “all you can stuff in a bag” sale. Ponce has those sales too and now has enough clothing to open a store. Trading material for later, as he calls it.

Years ago when talking with Ponce I couldn’t envision what living in Cuba could be like here in the U.S. but it is becoming more clear to me as time passes. Look at others and what they are doing to adapt to our devolving economy. This is a process which leads to watching every penny, every action, every word. In its totality it is becoming financially defensive in order to maintain some semblance of decency and hope that what is done is sufficient to continue life with as little disruption as possible. Prepping however comes from seeing the future and preparing in advance in order to live in the manner one wants. So prep now and avoid the rush.

A last thought is that I sometimes wonder if some of the items I buy now will be much lower in price in the next year or so. But with the dollar value uncertainty and inflation, it still seems a go for now. Optional toys like jet skis will probably take a price beating in the future but basic needs will probably stay the same price or increase. I can buy used jeans and shirts but socks and underwear (imported too) must be bought new so their price will probably go up. See what I mean ?

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Prepping now reduces regrets later.

In my last post I alluded to prices of items falling in the near future and wondered which items would hold their values. Here is a good article explaining what deflation would do to our futures :

Weekend Edition December 13-15, 2013
It's Closer Than You Think
The Truth About Deflation
by MIKE WHITNEY

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/...out-deflation/

The chart of the velocity of M2 money stock shows that currently the money velocity is at the lowest level in over 50 years. Does this explain why money is so tight even though the FED is printing money like there is no tomorrow ? In this article is stated that :

“The reason for this is simple: QE does not raise inflation because QE does not increase incomes, wages or credit. The reserves that are created via QE remain in the banking system where they buoy asset prices by reducing the supply of stocks and bonds available for sale. But there is no transmission mechanism for delivering money to the real economy where it can increase activity, inflation and growth. The fact is, QE may actually be deflationary since it reduces the interest on bonds (US Treasuries) that provide income for savers and other fixed-income investors. Some analysts put the amount of potential savings lost due to QE in the neighborhood of $400 billion, which represents about half of all the money spent on Obama’s fiscal stimulus called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. Naturally, the loss of this revenue has only added to the sluggishness and stagnation of the US economy.”

And there is much more in this article. I hope it will be read and considered. With all the inflation (and hyperinflation) expectations floating around the internet I wonder just where all this cheap money will come from. Furthermore, will all this cheap money get into the hands of us ordinary citizens or will it continue to flow into the hands of the bankers ? Just what is the mechanism whereby this cheap money will flow to us ordinary citizens ?

When we study the who, what, where, when, why and how of the trillions of dollars around the world we may come to the conclusion that we will be the last in line. And that means that the assets we hold will have been greatly depreciated by that time. In other words we will be paid at pennies on the dollar, like the carpetbaggers did to the south after the Civil War.

As long as gold and silver, the canaries in the coalmine, are kept at manipulated low prices, the alarms won’t go off and the game will continue. This is why it is so important to TPTB that gold and silver prices are being suppressed.

I believe that gold and silver prices will not increase appreciably until those in power have almost all of it in their control. Additionally, they may well issue laws that will strictly prevent those with physical gold and silver from freely benefiting from a great increase of their purchasing power. It’s all about control.

The people will do little since we are not organized. A case in point. When that first grader was suspended for a week for wishing his home school teacher a “Merry Christmas”, why didn’t all of the parents tell their children to wish merry Christmas to everyone at school the next day ? Would the school suspend all of the students ? Would the media even report it ?

I’m sorry; It is just that I have lost so much faith in our leadership that I feel that our representatives have morphed from servants of the people into predators of the people. My ancestors didn’t fight in the Revolutionary war, the Civil war, WWI and WWII so that we the people would be treated in such a manner. They did it for themselves and posterity. Where is our heritage, our birthright ?

And so on this 100th “anniversary of the Federal Reserve I am sickened to read of all the so called “money” being created out of thin air. When will it be realized that this “money” which is really currency which is not getting to us, the common people. An outrage beyond words may well result in revolution either by peaceful civil disobedience or violent overthrow. Only time will tell but it seems that everywhere I go, people are angry and hurt as a result of the way things are shaping up. Boy ! If they only knew what we here on the internet know. And that’s their as well as our problem too. We who know the score are far ahead of public opinion and knowledge and must patiently wait for events to unfold. It is unnerving.

Predicting the future makes fools of most. Not really; I have to commend those who have attempted this when they were going on a basis of sound historical facts.

In times of uncertainty, the only solution is to prepare for all the realistic possibilities. And even then, nothing is 100% sure.

If the banks are going to do a “bail in” against depositors, get your money out of there.

If we are to experience a 50% fall in the dollar, buy any assets which may maintain their intrinsic value. Gold and silver are but two and even they can be obtained in various forms and purity.

If we are to have a new currency issued, get bricks of nickels. They are issued by the treasury and have intrinsic value comparable to their face value. In most currency resets in the past, the coins were valued as the same fraction of the new currency. So a reset of 100 old dollars for 1 new dollar would make the coins worth 100 times more. Those in power don’t believe that anyone has any appreciable quantity of coins. All I can say is that they never met Ponce. But then again, he is unusual; almost unique.

I read that the Federal Reserve wants to issue the U.S, coinage rather than the U.S. Treasury. It seems that those in power desire to control money even down to the lowly penny. Now doesn’t that make you feel all warm and fuzzy ?

If we have martial law we need to have preps in order to go out as little as possible.

I don’t know about you but the flood of all the recent zombie movies and books makes me feel that we are being set up for some future chaotic food scenario. Actually not zombies but starving masses who are desperate. Anyway, you won’t be able to tell the difference.

The middle class seems to be the primary target. Note that the welfare crowd and poverty folks haven’t been affected much relatively. They will have their turn; they just can’t see it coming. Because after a collapse with its chaos, there will not be any reason for those in power to continue paying them sufficient purchasing power to continue their lives as they had in the past. In other words, a collapse will affect almost everyone, the poor, the middle class, even those at the top of the food chain.

I haven’t forgotten the ultra rich. It’s just that their problems will be different than the poor folks’ problems. Their problems will include buying enough security to continue their lives. Another will be their location. And another will be continuity of their network of contacts. And even these contacts may become like a group of sharks, picking off the weakest. Did you ultra rich really believe that you were dealing within a group of moral, upstanding citizens ? And what of the cheated masses of humanity out there ? Will they be happy for you ?

The problem with mankind through the ages has been their use of money as their yardstick to measure success. As with Nobel’s dynamite invention, nuclear power and other discoveries, there is always a good side and a dark side, the latter being utilized to the detriment of mankind. Now we have electronic money that could be a great leap forward in transactions but instead is being misused to take advantage of the masses. More than ever Ponce’s quote “If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it” has become an absolute byword in prepping and protecting wealth.

Best wishes,

Agnut

"To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others; to leave the world a little better; whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition; to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is the meaning of success. "
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Learning Prepper and Barter Skills at Your Local Dump, by Neil J.

Everyone these days is trying to budget and spend their hard earned money wisely. One place I found that I was able to spend a very limited amount or get items for free is at the local dump. It is a great place to accumulate items you could use in a SHTF situation. This may relate only to individuals living in suburban or city areas. There may be one in your county; it is important to find out if there is. If you have not been to your local recycle center or dump, you owe it to yourself to check it out. Take note that there might be a yearly or daily fee associated with using the dump. If at all possible, research the requirements to use the dump by calling ahead or using the local government web site. The only thing that was required at my local dump was being a resident of the city and to purchase a twenty dollar yearly pass to the recycle center. Dropping off household appliances and tires had extra fees on top of the yearly pass. The pass included free mulch and sometimes top soil.
[JWR Adds: Consult your local laws and landfill rules. Be advised that because of their well-justified fear of liability lawsuits, many municipal dumps and contracted commercial dumps now have "no scavenging" policies.]

There is a social community at the dump and you would never believe it unless you have experienced it. During my time spent as the dump supervisor for my local town, I interacted with many people that were involved with the unique subculture of the recycle center. I would like to give the readers some suggestions what might go a long way in the type of treatment and service you receive. This helps in order to be uninterrupted in gathering items or commodities that will be useful to you. Develop a first name relationship with the attendant or attendants and even patrons. People have developed strong friendships with other individuals and families they have encountered. At your dump there might be a no scavenging policy. I was the type of person to look the other way if I knew you, or you minded your own business. A small act of bringing the recycle center workers a bottle of water or a snack will bring you leniency. The main key is to be discreet and quick. If you see an item that might be useful grab it. Having a hook like tool and small tool box will be something useful to bring with you. That way you can extend your reach into dumpsters and do small disassembles for parts if necessary.

The dump is a great place to find useful items for bartering. I gathered candles, tools, books and anything I figured could be useful in a barter or economic collapse situation. I furnished my first apartment with a lot of things I found. People throw away things still brand new in the box! I once found a $500 coffee machine unopened in the original packaging. Many residents I was friendly with would put in orders with me for items they were looking for and sometimes put up rewards for finding those items. Couples and families would make a routine of showing up and making rounds just to see if they could find anything good or what had value.

Firewood is a sought after commodity by patrons that frequent the local dump. The firewood and yard waste would go into a special area. It either came from residents doing yard work or from the forestry division of the city. It was constantly searched for spring, summer and fall. Residents would brag about how much they saved on their energy bills each month by burning firewood to heat their homes. Gathering firewood for winter was very serious business for many people. I have seen individuals go to such great lengths as to bringing their own chainsaws to make lumber pieces more manageable to carry and load into their vehicles. I often saw people collaborate to help each other. The most common occurrence was residents dropping off wood and another person that wanted the wood would arrange going directly to each other’s home to help each other. In the end both parties received what they wanted while taking less trips to the dump and conserving fuel. I have seen great friendships come about by this practice.

Another thing residents really took advantage of was the recycle center provided mulch. The mulch came from the forestry department composting of trimmings and branches. I have watched families work at least eight hours making trip after trip refilling their buckets with mulch. I was told it works very well for helping growing vegetables in the garden. With your yearly pass you were able to get unlimited amounts of mulch. That is a great deal for someone trying to be frugal with their resources. Besides the two main interest grabbers being the firewood and mulch, there is a lot more things that might be useful in times of uncertainty. There was a section at the dump for dropping off a mixture of rocks, stones, dirt and bricks. A lot of people would pick up rocks and stones and take them home. I could picture someone taking home dirt, stones, and bricks home to set up a nice root cellar. Good dirt would not last long at all at the dump. It would be taken home for a variety of home garden needs. I could also see someone using a mixture of dirt, stones, rocks and bricks to set up defenses around ones property. With these items again, I have seen people communicate interest in what someone is dropping off. They will talk with each other and work out arrangements to cooperate. That is an efficient system for both parties but best for the one picking up the items. That way they don't lose out on anything while they go home to unload to prepare for another run.

There was a special section of dumpsters to recycle lumber. It was great for getting lumber or boards to burn if there was a shortage of firewood. You would be very surprised on the amount of good boards you could find, from hardwoods such as oak or mahogany or softwoods such as pine or cedar. Even treated lumber or press board is easy to find, from 2x4 pieces of lumber to 4x4 pieces. This is a great way to practice and learn woodworking. I knew several people that would use the lumber for all sorts of projects and build different things. One’s imagination is the only limiting factor on what could be built. You might even save up lumber to board up your windows or doors during an emergency situation.

A great thing about the recycle center is the individuals and families. It is a great community to practice on your people interaction skills. This is one of the most important skills you must learn for a SHTF scenario. If you don't know how to interact with all different sorts of individuals, bartering almost seems out of the picture in a severe economic downturn. There were plenty of times where just being friendly and asking politely I received things of value without expecting to give anything in return. I will tell you about a couple examples of my personal experiences but these are just a few instances. A gentleman and I somehow got into a discussion about gardening and he was telling me about all the different types of vegetables he planted for this harvest season. Peppers were a vegetable he mentioned. I asked him if he wouldn't mind bringing some pepper seeds to give to me if he had any extra to spare. He happily obliged and the next trip he made to the dump I was greeted with a friendly smile and a zip lock bag full of pepper seeds. He also gave me a brief explanation of what worked best for him when growing the pepper seeds. There was also plenty of occasions where I would help someone shovel mulch, unload, or just have a pleasant conversation and ask if they wouldn't mind bringing me something to drink next time they came around. Believe it or not I was rarely turned down. Every so often residents even went further, once I was brought muffins and other times different types of snacks. Never be afraid to ask someone a question is one thing I learned. The worst thing someone can say to you after you ask them a question is no. There is an old saying the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. The dump is a great place to meet like minded individuals within your community and practice your communication skills.

After practicing and perfecting your people skills the next thing to work on is bartering. I would often collect lawn mowers and barter them to my supervisor for cash or alcohol. I have found snow blowers and traded them to a friend for cash. A great example of bartering was when I would find coupons and barter them to a friend for scrap metal. Bartering is an everyday occurrence at the recycle center. I have seen people trade different items they have picked often. Maybe one party throws in some dollars or another item to sweeten the deal. Often sometimes it could just be items that one party wants to trade for something that will be more useful to them. There are many more examples of bartering, but you need to get down to our own recycle center and practice. I believe the dump is one of the closest things you can get to a cash limited society.

There are all different types of ways you can practice and learn skills for a survival scenario. One of the best skills to learn and practice is to fix things that are broken. You sometimes will get lucky and find things you can use that are still working and completely functional. Often a small part in something you find useful might be broken. It’s a great skill to practice to take the item home and figure out how it works. Often you can buy replacement parts or even keep your eye out at the dump for another of that same or similar item to find the working part you need. I would often tell people it has a great return policy. Meaning you can take it home hold onto it for awhile and if it doesn't work out the way you wanted and you were unable to repair the item just bring it back to the dump and throw it back out. A huge hit at the recycle center for home repairs were lawn mowers and snow blowers. Handy people would take them home tinker around with them and repair them if possible and sell them.

Another skill worth learning is trying to make money from the items you find at the recycle center. A lot of people I knew would gather enough items of value, fix the ones not working and host a yard sale. Besides gathering items and selling them, there were a lot of people interested in gathering scrap metal. You might get lucky and someone tossed out some copper pipe, old brass faucet, or some Romex wire after doing a remodel. Some people do not know what these materials are worth or they are simply too lazy or don't have enough to make it worth their time. Learn to identify different types of metals and what they are worth. I always carried with me a wire cutter and a magnet to identify different types of metals. A magnet does not stick to copper, brass, or aluminum and those are the three main types of scrap metals you should be interested in. Be careful, it can become an addicting and fun hobby.

Besides all the barter and survival skills you can learn there is another other skill to be learned. The skill that I think everyone should learn is how to be charitable. It’s not a hard thing to learn at the dump when you are looking around. If you see an item say you might not want or could use but you know a friend could use take it and give it to them. I knew a lot of people what would stay on the lookout for items that they could give to their church to help others. I knew a father and son what would look for lightly used mattresses for women that were less fortunate. Those are just some of the instances what I have witnessed. Being charitable is also a great way to help others and reduce what goes into the landfill. Its great seeing people find useful items that find a new purpose with someone instead of being destroyed and never used again.

http://www.survivalblog.com/index.html

I could start an entire thread about going to the dump.

My neighbor across the street will pull out of his driveway and yell,

"I'm going to the dump, You need anything?"

Picked up a brand new trailer tire and rim with the nipples still on the tread at the dump just yesterday!

I used to have a GOOD connection at the dump. I got the line on all sorts of stuff, hauled several old boats and trailers out of there and stripped them of engines and other parts and then sold or traded or gave them away. Always good to be on a name basis with the people who work there. They can make or break your day. They'll let you have stuff or help you out and not hassle you when your offloading something questionable. Always important to ask before taking anything. You'll get mucho brownie points for being polite and thankful. I sometimes bring them cookies from my wife or a 6 pack of beer that I know a couple of them drink. The dump has a whole subculture of people going there, kind of like the garage sailers. There's guys into small engines/lawn mowers, one guy takes old bicycles and fixes them for poor kids for Christmas, I know a guy that mines old computer towers for parts and another who mines them for gold in the circuitry. A lot of good firewood can be had there. The dump in my area is a private contract with the county which I would LOVE to have, if for nothing else just the scrap metal that goes through there. My friend and mentor and I have talked about it and think we'll end up needing 50 acres of land to store all the stuff we pick out of there if we were ever able to land the contract.

I love the dump!!

in Silicon Valley, one of the biggest "dumps" (in a good way) is Berman's Diversified.

http://www.auctionbdi.com/

Companies give them pallets of just about anything. a year ago i noticed an HP gas chromatograph.

Berman's sells it, gives some of the money back to the company it came from, etc.

thanks agnuts for all the info you give to us all . i hope more learn to be able to horse trade because there will come a time . i buy tools at sales and i mean more then one . i have more garden tools then i will ever need . but if something was to happen my family , if they can , will be making there way to my place at that point we all will be farmers . but i also buy lots of other stuff that i sale and make paper bucks from that give me more to buy other stuff i need . be safe all and thanks to all for there post here mick

Thanks govcheetos; great post covering yet another source of hot deals. What with Jim Willie predicting a 50% haircut of the dolorous dollar along with China buying all the gold they can get their hands on, the near future may be that we as a nation will become isolated from the other trading nations. At least, import prices will rise dramatically. Items manufactured internally will also go up since many of the components and raw materials are imported. I used to joke that the only thing made in America were babies but even that isn’t true any more.

Point is, the things that we possess that are useful will be like gold someday. An appliance repairman with a yard full of used parts could be a good career for the future. Just how long can we continue throwing away used appliances when no more are being imported, either through sky high prices or collapsed foreign trade? Ponce has told me many times that the dumps of today will be the goldmines of the future.

Our dump has two resale stores where we can find all kinds of items. One is run by the dump itself. Not bad but I have rarely bought anything there.

The other one run by a nonprofit outfit is where I spend my time. A friend runs the place and keeps me abreast of things I want when they come in. My electric stove’s oven element shorted out and I couldn’t find another one so I got an almost new Maytag oven for $45. Works great, and by the way, it has no electronic panel like the new ones. I hate those things. Simplicity for the future; things I can fix myself and get parts cheap and easily. My old stove was looking gnarly and the new one was a treat for the household.

I have gotten lumber, pipe fittings, stovepipes, vinyl records, insulation, books, and many, many small items I needed. All for about 2 to10 cents on the dollar from the retail stores‘ prices. There were three Kohler toilets for sale the last time I was there that might be a good buy for the future. I didn’t buy because I don’t need one right now but having a backup might be wise.

Regarding firewood, I used to pick up truckloads of pallets and use them for fire starters for logs but there is a lot of Alder growing on the property which burns well enough. I wrote about hauling my log splitter to a friend’s place where my son and I split many rounds. He returned the favor and gave us a cord of dry fir. We are using it now. So these trades are taking place all over. We just need to keep our eyes and minds open to the opportunities as they present themselves. This same friend was here an hour ago picking up a big box of fruits and veggies. He also measured my garage for the propane heater black pipe and exhaust pipe he would need to complete the job. He even took a copy of the parts list so that he could find some of the items around his place so that I wouldn’t have to buy them at the store. He also knows several professionals who’ll do other side work for a bargain price. What a great guy to have around. I met him at a garage sale he was holding, so as I have written in the past that you may find some real friends in places you never expected. That’s like the icing on the cake when getting out there and meeting your neighbors, both near and far.

If you will act like a good American, you will usually be treated like family. The way you carry yourself and treat others will be mirrored back to you. I have run across more relationship potentials than I could ever handle. What goes around comes around. Generosity in giving of yourself always pays off one way or another. It shouldn’t be expected but what happens afterwards is like a mystery grab bag dropped in your lap. What I am trying to say (and rather badly) is that attitude is essential to receiving the highest personal satisfaction. Govcheetos, I can see that you have this mastered. Well, as much as anyone can since it is an ongoing lifetime learning process.

We are not meant to sit around and feel sorry for all the things we either did or did not do but rather to learn from the past and grow. Because too many allow themselves to be defeated, it is easier for us to succeed. So don’t disparage others but rather be thankful for who you are. I know I am.

Govcheetos, your postings have been uplifting to me and to those reading this thread. Do you realize that we may be the “go to guys” in the future ? Another reason to accumulate all the connections we can while we can. Both you and I are rich. Our yardstick is not money but people. And when fiat money fails mankind and blows away in the coming storm, mankind will still be here. A time when want will be replaced by need. When those with the resources will be called upon to share their knowledge. And hopefully a time in which mankind will pull together in harmony and peace.

A man without a dream is either dead or in neutral gear. Makes for a boring sitcom. Is the universe watching us for entertainment; comedies, tragedies, adventures, romance, imaginations, nature ? We humans watch all of these. Well, why not a far advanced civilization ? Perhaps they don’t even have physical bodies. What a concept !

So with all of my above ramblings (musings would be a more polite term but I do know that I ramble on), what each of us do here on earth is our small contribution to what makes up the totality. Maybe it is a thank you for our very existence. I think it should be. I am thankful daily to be here appreciating all that life has to offer.

Best wishes,

Agnut


“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
Albert Einstein

Hi gunDriller and thanks for the website. I’m often amazed at how much I still do not know exists out there. The older I get, the more I realize how little I know.

Through the years I have bought and sold many items on eBay. When buying I would hold off until the last few seconds to submit my bid. This is called slamming; at least one other bidder accused me of doing this. But there is nothing wrong in doing so; I have seen it happen many, many times and have no problem with it when I lost an auction. Sour grapes.

There is a fine art to selling; presentation is everything. Also when listing several similar items I would offer no additional shipping to a multiple bid winner. Funny that this seemed to increase both the number of bidders as well as the winning price. One time I had 40 items of antique Italian micromosaic jewelry. The bidding was furious and I came out much better than I had originally estimated. Of course it didn’t cost me any more to ship several pieces of jewelry in one package so it was a win-win for both the seller and the buyer. You can’t do this with large items but I use this example to illustrate that there are many possibilities only limited by the imagination.

Online auctions are relatively easy and fast as opposed to live in person auctions. They all do have their drawbacks but navigating through the maze can be extremely rewarding at times. I feel as though I am flying by the seat of my pants. I once read that that expression came from a pilot shifting weight in order to turn. Sounds like a possibility. Anyway, I like the shifty part.

When living in southern California I went to a military surplus auction. I noticed several new luxury cars in the parking lot. This was a definite sign that there was some serious money being made. I later learned that there were dental equipment specialists there as well as bearing specialists who were bidding on pallets of dental equipment and pallets of aircraft bearings. Both were out of my field of knowledge but it was fascinating and educational to watch these seasoned bidders going about their trade. Both types of bidders knew what they were bidding on, their values and where they would sell these items as soon as they won the auction. They were essentially middlemen with a entrepreneurial flair. Lots of fun to just watch the action, body language and conversation.

There are and will be lots of liquidation sales with our economy being what it is. Just know what you are buying, how much it is worth and who you will sell to before committing your hard earned cash.

Oh, and watch for egos driving bid prices through the roof. I have seen it happen and it is only comical if you are not involved.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hi Mick silver. Sounds like you are already in the thick of it. As I wrote in my last post, I am still learning too (and will continue to learn as long as I live). I wonder if there are auctions in heaven. Probably not what with bidding wars and last minute slamming.

So bartering and horse trading is sort of a clearing floor for information for us all as well as from all of us. I have owned several businesses and sometimes people would ask me about a business they were considering starting. They would ask “What if I fail ?” I would tell them that the only failure was to not do what they believed, whether they made money or not. They looked at me quizzically since they had considered financial success as being the only success. Although vitally important, there is also learning success and satisfaction success. To discover that someone can act, learn and possibly succeed can be revelatory and open doors to other greater personal growth.

Funny that you mention all the gardening tools you have accumulated, for you see, I have been doing the same for years. Finding a shovel, hoe, pick and many other tools for a dollar or two is just icing on the cake when out there garage sailing. I especially look for the implements that are well made. Old American stuff. When I lived in southern California in a little town there was a guy who got broken shovels, rakes and hoes and welded metal tubes where there had been wood handles. I bought several and they lasted forever. You would have to have been a gorilla or a fool to have broken them. Why don’t they sell them in the stores ? Pretty obvious, isn’t it ?

Right now we have 3 steers, having recently thrown one in the freezer ( a cute euphemism considering the alternative). Well, really two and a half steers since AJ has only one testicle (is this a test ? ) . I call him AJ, short for Almond Joy. You know, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t. I suppose I could offer him out to stud for at half off.

Anyway, the three remaining bovines will be dispensed with by next fall. AJ will go in the freezer and the two younger ones will be sold to partially pay for the next project. I have calculated that it is too expensive to raise them, even with getting a ton of fruits and veggies a week and buying hay at $1 a bale. I can buy the beef all wrapped and done for about $4.50 a pound while it costs about the same if my son and I raise them for over 2 years. This raising doesn’t include the feeding them 3 times a day, watering them, mending fences and material. Also risk must be calculated; risk of disease and liability.

The next project may be pig breeding and raising. But I have a lot of research to do first. One event that caught my eye is that Smithfield, the largest pork processor in the US, has been sold to the Chinese. Notice the recent prices of a pound of bacon ? About doubled, didn’t it ? A sign for the future ? I wrote about this a while back; maybe here but am either too lazy or stupid to find it. Hey, maybe I’m getting oldtimers’ disease. Yeah, that’s the ticket. The only positive to having oldtimers’ is that every time you hear a joke, it is new.

Mick silver, every deal you make provides more experience to make the future deals. It is having the courage and confidence in yourself that will propel you forward. I have made many mistakes in the past and expect to make more in the future. Nothing is certain in the future except that if you don’t try, you are certain to miss out.

Best wishes,

Agnut

http://www.vintagetub.com/images/med...1003A-RE-S.jpgdo you guys every see they for sale , i buy they when i can find them . i try and stay below 100bucks most of the time . i refinishs theys and make fair money on them . stay away from them if there alot of rust . body filler for cars works well for fixing them . as a kid we had one , the kicker is all the older folks are looking back and want one because of there folks having one . so you guys get what i am saying there money there if the price is right . it like old wood furnture i restore that at time for people but most of the time it for my wife , we have replace most of the stuff in are home with good solid furnture , you cant buy the stuff that was made years ago . i see you may start raising hogs to me it easer the beef . but make sure you hog pen as far away as it can be the smell but i bet you know this already . i go to alot of auctions , i have never seen land an homes so cheap as they have been in the last few years . but back to the meat what you raise will be better then anything you can buy from the store an plus it safer for you guys , well i need to go be safe and good at it mick s

Hi Mick silver. I’ve never seen this type of lawn furniture but have seen steel single chairs, some with ornate designs. I have a pair of cast iron and oak chairs, they are so heavy that I dread moving them. Every time I look at them I marvel at how things used to be well made here in the America. To last a lifetime. This is partly why I barter and horse trade; I collect well made items that can be enjoyed for now and passed on to my family. I used to find old metal riding toys and restore them. It was enjoyable and as a result the hours passed quickly. Not work but more a fun hobby.

I think it was Orson Wells who said that if a hobby did not bring him money, he would find another hobby. Well, there are different measures of bringing money but that has to be weighed against the pleasure derived. I have spent several years restoring my own old cars and netted far less per hour than if I had been working on customers’ cars.

Restoring some things pay well. I once met a guy who restored a specific type of coffee roaster. He bought a large sand blaster machine from me so that he could fit big pieces inside. I made money selling a tool like the gold rush merchants sold gold panning tools and Levis to the miners. That is another way of pursuing a dream and more often profitable. I guess it isn’t as exciting as finding gold nuggets but is still steady progress toward the same dream of becoming financially sound.

Nowadays I am bartering my skills in finding good deals for what others have to trade. It may be items or their particular skills I need. I’m getting older and can’t work like I used to. Besides I don’t have experience like a carpenter, plumber, electrician or computer expert. Maybe in the future we will be back (or is that really advanced) to going to the doctor or dentist and paying him with chickens or pigs or our labor. I just know that I am doing some of this trading now and it is working out well. There is always the human factor to consider; the other guy. Is he happy with the deal ? If not, I want to know and work it out. Hypertiger often writes that we take more than we give. I don’t agree with this as a blanket generalization; The best businesses and barterers will bend over backwards to satisfy their customers because it is good practice for future relations. But it goes deeper in that it is a moral issue also.

I sometimes wonder how we would treat each other if there were only a few hundred humans here on earth. I don’t like to make the analogy that if you put too many rats in a confined space, they will kill each other but I feel that in putting too many humans in close proximity, respect for each other is diminished. And with loss of respect comes crimes against one another. The phrase, “we are our brothers’ keeper”, may sound a bit corny in these times but I practice it. Believe me, it is hard to give something to someone without something coming back in one form or another. It is there; you just have to be able to recognize it.

If doing evil in this world comes back (my karma ran over your dogma), why shouldn’t doing good also come back ? It is said that no good deed goes unpunished. Yeah, sometimes good intentions go awry. But this shouldn’t deter us from doing what is right. As Gandhi said, we must be the change we want to see in the world.

I know that it is not easy to remain calm with so much happening in the world. When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it wasn’t anything like it is today. If the dollar loses reserve currency status, all the wrongs committed will come home to roost.

We have become prisoners of our own devices. How ? By having so many comforts and conveniences, folks are in denial from fear of losing them. And denial is a mechanism to not face having to make a moral decision. So Americans complain about rising costs, unemployment, politics, crime and future uncertainty while not seeming to do much about it. I think that not until they have nothing to lose will they stand up and be counted.

Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. Thanks for the hog advice. I’m still gathering information and haven’t yet concluded if it is a best direction to go.

Yesterday I learned that raising organic produce has restrictions that I may not be able to meet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by agnut

I sometimes wonder how we would treat each other if there were only a few hundred humans here on earth. I don’t like to make the analogy that if you put too many rats in a confined space, they will kill each other but I feel that in putting too many humans in close proximity, respect for each other is diminished. And with loss of respect comes crimes against one another. The phrase, “we are our brothers’ keeper”, may sound a bit corny in these times but I practice it. Believe me, it is hard to give something to someone without something coming back in one form or another. It is there; you just have to be able to recognize it.

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i used to raise rats. sold about $20 worth a week.

when they were fed well, they got along great.

but yes, i've heard about cases where they multiplied exponentially, e.g. in a grain silo, then ran out of food.

and then the rat cannibalism started.


i think it would be possible to use rats to generate electricity.

but it's one of those "get around to it" type of projects. :)

well well i hit the jack pot last week at the sale . i pick up a bedroom suit made out of solid cedar for less than a hundred bucks . done turn down 400 on the stuff . but i will redo the furinture then sell it all . there alway nice stuff if you look for it . be safe at it mick s

Hi gun driller. Yeah, all too true. My son and I just watched the Hunger Games and it seemed to apply to your post. People will do almost anything to survive when cornered and put under undue stress such as hunger. We are not there yet but it could happen in a matter of days if food replenishment ceased for any reason. It is not the prepping that concerns me but the moral decisions that will have to be made. I have already made mine but I feel that so many preppers haven’t faced their coming dilemma.

I haven’t been going to garage sales because there haven’t been any for the last several weeks. Winter and everybody holes up like bears hibernating. However I’ve been picking up things at the local Blockbuster store that is going out of business. Last Thursday they began a liquidation sale; DVDs for 99 cents. I got 22 DVDs, 20 of which were foreign films which rarely show up at garage sales. I also got the 4th and 5th seasons of the TV series Weeds for 99 cents; I haven’t seen the show but heard that it was popular. If I don’t like it I could always sell it, trade it or give it away. Trading material as Ponce calls it. You know, every time I pick up an item I think about whether I would rather have the dollars or the item.

I’ve begun reading a book called Handbook To Higher Consciousness by Ken Keyes Jr. and so far it makes a lot of sense. It deals with our fears and motivations and offers solutions that we can easily use in our daily lives. It is life changing stuff. I know that I dwell upon the past and am concerned about the future too much. Sure we learn from the past and plan for the future but this is not about that. It is more about being here now and thinking in terms of preference rather than addictions. Serenity.

Today my son and I were delivering fruits and veggies to the local thrift store and I noticed that there was a bag sale on men’s clothing. It was all you could stuff in this plastic bag for $5. Well, my son and I set about methodically picking out clothes we could wear for work or dress. My son got 14 shirts and 2 pairs of pants in one bag. I got 10 pairs of pants and 9 shirts, a wide variety of dress, casual and some camo shirts. These clothing items were better quality with labels such as Dockers, Puritan, Wrangler, Bass, Clairborne, L.L.Bean, Arrow, St. Johns Bay and others. So for $5 each we have enough clothes for a long, long time.

I do realize than not everyone has a great thrift store such as we do but one should persevere and search surrounding areas for other thrift stores. Sometimes when I am traveling I will find a local thrift store and check them out. I’ve found some unusual items that I had never seen before.

I’ve been wondering about future inflation/deflation for some time and here are a couple of articles to think about :

2014 The End of the Beginning
Darryl Robert Schoon
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/sc...oon010914.html

When Deflation Becomes Hyperinflation
http://bullionbullscanada.com/

If we have deflation on a massive scale almost nobody will be able to pay their bills; no cash to be had. And if we have hyperinflation, the currency may not buy anything. Personally I believe that we will have what I long ago called hyperstagflation wherein prices are rising dramatically while wages are stagnant. All in a scenario of high unemployment. In fact it is going on now. Why do I bring this up ? Well, I would want to know that what I am buying now will be valuable in the future. More desirable and needed than the dollars I hold.

It seems that we have been paying higher prices while receiving lower wages for some years now. But lately we have been running out of dollars to continue on this path. How can prices fall to where we can afford things we want ? First would come an increase in unsold goods inventory but will a price drop follow ? And if a price drop did indeed follow, would manufacturers be able to stay in business ? Or would current inventories be sold out and then replaced with continued manufacturing to be sold at a loss ? What would be the sense in that ?

How can we have hyperinflation when nobody will have the bundles of dollars to pay for things ? Germany had hyperinflation in 1922-23; but the government printed money like toilet paper. Will the Fed do that ? No, it seems that they are “printing” electronic money; and it is all going to prop up the banks and Wall street. Do we personally see any of that ?

Money is like the blood coursing through the body. Not enough and the body becomes weak and near death as various organs are insufficiently fed needed materials. There are too many bloodsuckers, too many taking more than they give as Hypertiger says. The parasite has become larger than the host.

A reset is in order. But it will be complicated, painful and fraught with many dangers. I hope that we who have prepared have the skills to navigate through what is to come. About 7 years ago I began writing this bartering and horse trading thread and only lately have I realized that it as a skill will be more important than ever.

Best wishes,

Agnut

went to a sale the other night . most of the stuff there was junk it look like the sales maybe coming to a end to find good stuff . i hope not ........ be safe at it all mick s

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Originally Posted by mick silver

went to a sale the other night . most of the stuff there was junk it look like the sales maybe coming to a end to find good stuff . i hope not ........ be safe at it all mick s

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Hang in there Mick. Winter is the slow time for sure, but every now and then you find a nugget, gotta be out there looking though. I hadn't found anything in weeks until this past weekend when I picked up a United Welding side mount truck tool box for $5, a NEW trailer tire size 205/75/15 for $5, and a 6 gallon VENTED gas can for $1. Been cruising craigslist hard lately. Sold a bunch of stuff I wasn't using or stuff I had multiple multiples of. Some prices are so high I really wonder what the seller is thinking selling items for damn near the new retail price, or selling some old raggety project for what a decent good shape useable item would cost. Gotta look through a bunch of BS to find the good stuff. I feel for people trying to sell a high priced used item today. Lots of people don't have any funds and those that do buy new, even if they do finance it. Saw a commercial for people to LEASE flatscreen tvs, not rent to own, LEASE!

Hope everyone else is doing good.

Buy low, sell for more, and hang on to the good stuff that doesn't depreciate or go bad for later.

here a site so you guys can check out some of the old glider and what they are saling for , http://www.retrovintagepatio.com/unr...l-gliders.html

also watch for theys old metal window fans , most young people have never seen theys , as a kid we had them in our house . i just pick up two today , pay 40 for both of them , both work great they will be going to my work shop for the summer ... i have seen they fans go as high as 300buckshttps://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...t4ziJdiW5MVaHQthey fans go for alot more i just knew the guy and he let me have them cheap . here a site look for theys fan . the go for alot at places that sale old homes stuff ... https://www.google.com/search?q=old+...h=742#imgdii=_

check out the prices for the old metal fans are going for . the more sites an most are higher . so be on the lookout for theys mick s .... http://www.ebay.com/bhp/antique-metal-fan

Good deal mick silver. Always an advantage if you have the storage room for large items. If I didn’t have the acreage and large barn I wouldn’t have been able to have stored cars, tractors, furniture and equipment. One problem I have is that these large items often need work and finding the time to get them ready to use or sell is difficult. But the important point is that I have these items in possession. Deals come through time and if I do not get them when offered they may not appear for years, if ever. Some items I feel that I need right away and some that I will need in the future. This is why I have a barn and other storage rooms full of items I have acquired through the years. I may be like a trading post someday, who’s to know for sure ?

I do know this for a fact. I have been trading bicycles for work or favors as well as many other items. The other day my nephew worked on my desktop and laptop computers and I thanked him with 3 pairs of jeans and a belt. I knew that he needed them and we both were happy with the deal, although it wasn’t anything formal. Heck, I would have given these items to him anyway but things just seemed to fall together at the same time. What is the word ? Serendipity, a "fortuitous happenstance" or "pleasant surprise".

This bartering and horse trading has always been serendipitous to me, a traveling about while finding the unexpected and being pleasantly surprised.

As I wrote in my last post, bartering and horse trading is a skill which will become more important in the future. Imagine what would/will happen in a monetary collapse. How would/will we get what we need ? Well, unless you are like Ponce who already has practically everything he needs for years to come you would/will need to search out and trade. It is a lot easier to do this now while there is an abundance of used items for sale. Not right now but in the coming spring and summer months.

So what is going to be in demand in the years to come ?

This is at once both easy to answer and almost impossible to answer. Ponce says that ANYTHING of use will be like gold. I believe that there will be varying degrees of demand, some items like clothing will be difficult to find as well as expensive. And many imported items will be nigh impossible to find. I just spoke with Ponce and he said that when he was in Cuba he bought some items for a local who actually cried when he gave them to him. Items like spark plugs, fan belts, radiator hoses that wear out should be stocked now for whatever cars you intend to keep running in the future.

A while back I posted a thread called “I met a Saint Today”. I heard of a lady with 8 adopted children who was struggling to hold things together. My son and I decided to help her but never did we expect anything in return. Well, things have gotten to our dropping boxes of fruits and veggies two or three times a week. She in turn has decided to be our chef. She has given us apple pies, lemon meringue pies, gallons of Texas hot chili (I’m eating some right now), gallons of split pea soup, lasagna, canned preserves, applesauce and various other cooked foods. I have to say that I am amazed and a little embarrassed to be receiving so much in return. I even have to tell her to not give us so much food although her home cooking is the best.

I’m almost 67 and have always felt that we Americans should work together to help each other. I mean this on a one to one personal basis. We enter this world naked and leave it naked. What we share with others is foundational to our being. It is not the things themselves that we share but that we are showing others that they are important to us. I don’t think prepping and then going into hiding when things collapse will work for most. Either these preppers will succeed in keeping their preps to themselves or they will lose them to overwhelming forces. In the first case I wouldn’t be proud of myself while watching families starving all around me, particularly the children who will be my focus. I would have to live with this shame the rest of my life; what I had not done while others were in dire need. And in the second case I wouldn’t feel good about being overrun and relieved of my preps.

There is a third option. But many preppers scoff at this sharing with those who did not prep. Their defense is either that others did not prep and went about life spending their money foolishly or that if preppers shared their preps that they would also be out of food in the future. Because many folks did not prep it is not fair to judge them so harshly. We preppers have been blessed with information of what to do as well as the financial wherewithal to do so.

I realize that we preppers are limited in means and therefore we fear that if we were to share what we have we will soon run out. This is the dilemma we all face and it has no easy solution. If I were a multimillionaire and could stock great quantities of food items I would still run out in time since I would be supplying to a whole community.

The best I can figure is to help the children and ask for cooperation from the adults in protecting food stocks while they are being shared. At the same time being a clearinghouse for information as to where to get food for adults as well as to what native plants and animals are in the local area. Growing food is difficult to start for a city dweller as well as time consuming. And people need food NOW, not when crops mature.

The more I think about future food shortages the more I see what an enormous task it will be in solving the problem. As I understand, our government sold out our three year grain storage and there is nothing left for the people. No wonder many suspect that America’s Fort Knox gold has also been sold out.

Do you know where some of the silver came from in coining the very first dimes in America ? George Washington’s family silverware. Did Washington make a profit ? Well, not in financial terms but rather in human and spiritual terms.

Sadly, most Americans consider rich to be in how much money and expensive assets one possesses. But there are other yardsticks by which to measure wealth and success. Helping others by sharing and teaching loom large in one’s spiritual growth.

Just this evening I had a couple of new friends drop by and they mentioned that they needed some foam insulation for one of their rooms. Well, last summer I had acquired 60 sheets of 4x8 by 2 inch thick ex- military surplus for $1 each. They cost about $20 each at Home Depot. My friends need about 18 sheets. So what to charge them…. How about nothing since they have been so good to me ? Aha, agnut, you have finally lost it ! Not really since I operate in a world in which what goes around comes around, so things will work themselves out if they already haven’t. It’s a sort of flow of goods and labor through time that intrigues me in that I only do this once in a while. Makes me wonder just how far it may be expanded in the future we face.

Can you imagine a huge place in which items are traded rather than using cash? A real trading post. The first thing that comes to mind is what the government would think taxwise. Say I had a pair of floor joist jacks and someone wanted to trade them for a pile of lumber or a quantity of frozen beef. What would be the sales tax ? What would be the income tax ? Should this enterprise be considered a nonprofit organization ?

Straight bartering is something I have to be traded for something I value equally. A fair deal entered into with free will and no coercion from either party. Where is the so called profit ? Someone and I decided that we would trade items of equal value to each of us. Is this a nonprofit transaction by its very nature ?

If I have 10 pounds of chicken and trade it for 5 pounds of fish, where does the government enter into the deal ? Is it any of their business ? Because if they were entitled to a cut, who would figure out the details ? Paid in chicken and fish ?

Suppose I gift an item to someone and he gifts an item to me. This is essentially what medical marijuana growers do in getting rid of their excess crops. It is considered a donation whether cash or an item. There is no sales or income tax involved here either.

We have B.C. which is before collapse and we have A.D. which is after disaster. Now we are living in B.C. but when we cross over into A.D., what kind of world will we have ? Hopefully a world in which, as Thoreau said, “that government is best which governs least”.

Personally I am disgusted at how we American citizens are being treated by our government. Unwanted wars, graft, lies, privileged information, onerous laws, taxation for almost every action are but a few in a long list.

At the bottom of it all has been the transformation of real money into debt currency. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself but the LOVE of money over the love of our fellow man. Greed knows no bounds figures in here also.

Money ideally is only an intermediary for trade/bartering which greatly facilitates ease of transactions. Additionally, money can be saved as we would save food for future uncertainties. Which brings to mind something. If preppers have a stock of food for the future he is disparagingly called a hoarder but if someone has a great deal of money he is admiringly called rich. Talk about an assbackward upside down world.

Best wishes,
agnut



Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience" Summary and Analysis
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literatur...y-and-analysis

Hi govcheetos. Yeah, the deals come in spurts and ya have to be ready for the flood as well as the drought. When things are slow like in the winter I am organizing more and buying less. Sounds like you have been busy making some great deals, especially items you can use right away.

I haven’t sold anything lately on Craigslist; I like to sell more expensive items like tillers, antiques, cars and car parts. Generally, buyers won’t drive 2 to 3 hours each way for a $20 item but will for a $500 or more item. The exception is if you have a rare item or one that is otherwise unavailable locally.

Money is tight nowadays and I believe will be getting a lot tighter what with oblamacare taking even more out of paychecks. I don’t see how we pee-ons can continue much longer without being pushed over the cliff. Yeah, like lemmings.

With that said, I again caution you all to be careful in spending money for what may look like a good deal now that may be available in the not too distant future for a pittance. I’m not sure about this but imagine what items like vinyl records, DVDs, stereos, TVs, art, jet skis, boats, and many items that people will want but not need. Need becomes everything when there is high unemployment coupled with low wages, high debt and high inflation. Toys become a luxury that few can/will afford. Food, housing and transportation are the three necessities; most everything else can be put off or negotiated.

Right now I have a VW Jetta that came with a rebuilt transmission and new clutch. I made a mistake a while back when I bought it for $1,500 for a daughter to use while visiting us. The transmission retails for $1300, the clutch is $200 and the new windshield I had put in was $300. That’s $1,800 my cost and I will be lucky to break even when I sell it. In looking back, I shouldn’t have bought the car but rather had my daughter rent a car from the airport. She will be doing just that this summer when she visits. Lesson learned.

Thrift stores around here seem to be doing very well since money is tight. Dollar store too. I recommend getting multiples of dollar store items you use regularly; I believe that the size of current items will continue to decrease as inflation gnaws away at everything like rats in a barn.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Quote:

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Originally Posted by agnut

I haven’t sold anything lately on Craigslist; I like to sell more expensive items like tillers, antiques, cars and car parts. Generally, buyers won’t drive 2 to 3 hours each way for a $20 item but will for a $500 or more item. The exception is if you have a rare item or one that is otherwise unavailable locally.

Money is tight nowadays and I believe will be getting a lot tighter what with oblamacare taking even more out of paychecks. I don’t see how we pee-ons can continue much longer without being pushed over the cliff. Yeah, like lemmings.

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what amazes me is the prices people will pay in Silicon Valley/ SF Bay Area.

around here pussy willows grow like weeds, but in Silly Valley people will pay $MONEY$ for that "Nature Look" in their barren high-rise apartment/ condo.

I have a piece of wood where the rings are very pronounced, with some blue copper nitrate di-hydrate crystals on top (they look like blue quartz crystals.) just one of those pretty nature-y things people put on the kitchen window-sill.

i was thinking about selling it in the SF Bay Area for some ridiculous price, $100+.

i think part of the trick of selling stuff is establishing credibility with the buyer, related to, "why should they trust you with their money".

nothing really to report this last month it been so cold that i have just been working on the stuff i have and on the house . right now i am looking for stuff to build a hottub with a wood broiler to heat the water . i been looking at site to get a few ideas on how to do this so this will be my next thing to do around here . i know ponce has one i may see if he can post some picture to what his looks like .last year i got a new camping stove with oven off of Craigslist it was still in the box for 20 paper bucks it works great in our outside kitchen .... and thanks all for the undates . be good but be safe at it mick

was hoping to see something from agnut , hope all is good . spring getting closer hope the sales start up soon . been a slow winter here and cold cant remember the last time it was this cold for so long , deers have been hurting for food an water with all the ice an snow on the ground for so long , be good an safe at it mick s

anyone out looking for deals yet , hope all are safe an well mick

Hi gun driller. Yeah, there are still some folks with more money that sense. Reminds me of when a friend came over with her 16 year old son. I was telling her about the clothes I had on and what I had paid for them. The Wranglers were 50 cents, the shirt was 30 cents, the London Fog jacket was three dollars and the Phat Farm brand shoes were free. My friend agreed that this was the way to go but her son wanted what the other kids wanted. Her son was wearing a pair of those baggy long shorts that would have fitted in with the ghetto crowd. I told him to keep those shorts and look at them in 5 years and then in ten years. I furthermore said that he wouldn’t be caught dead in them by then. But hey, the young kids have such fragile egos and just HAVE to fit in with their friends (who are also clueless).

This is all about leaving your ego behind. Remember that I wrote long ago that we were moving from form to function. This is especially true with spending money on what we want and NOT what we need. I was in Kmart the other day and noted that their jeans were $20 ! So I could buy 40 pairs of almost new jeans for 1 pair of new jeans.

Some folks have wised up on their own and some other folks were forced to by financial necessity. Both of these types of folks are the reason that thrift stores and doing so well lately. The first folks have been buying frugally for a long time while the financially strapped folks have had to or go without clothes and begin to look like the homeless.

Now there is an abundance of used items but what happens when the dollar takes a hard dump when we lose reserve currency status ? A 50% relative devaluation would double the prices of imports. An 80% relative devaluation would cost 5 times what they do now ? And this 80% devaluation of the dollar is exactly what Jim Willie is predicting. So a new imported item now priced at $100 would be $500 after an 80% devaluation ? Unimaginable. Or is it ?

And obviously the used items I am buying are often one tenth of their new price. So a $10 used item will be what value after an 80% dollar devaluation ? I hope that this type of thinking will encourage us all to think freely about what will be valuable in the future because we all need to know how to position ourselves well beforehand. Toilet paper is looking better and better as a trading item (thanks Ponce). Unlike liquor or ammo, who is going to shoot you for a roll of toilet paper ?

So this is why I buy quality used items rather than silver or gold. The world must go on no matter what happens to the dollar. I expect that as time passes there will be more bartering and horse trading going on. Even in the last 6 months I have greatly increased trading of my items for either labor or items I wanted. I think I see a trend developing here.

I think real estate is going to crash and burn someday but it won’t matter if you are already living in your bugout place all set up. The sale price would be inconsequential to your and your loved ones’ safety and security. Priceless.

A few Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) quotes :

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.

To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.

Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.

I am not young enough to know everything.

If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities.

We teach people how to remember, we never teach them how to grow.

One's real life is often the life that one does not lead.

It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.

The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.

I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex.

Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them.

To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world.

Experience is one thing you can't get for nothing.


Ordinary riches can be stolen; real riches cannot. In your soul are infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Gold : A barbarous relic for barbarous times.

Hi Mick silver. Funny but I have been doing the same thing; working on the stuff I have already bartered and horse traded in the last year. The den is filled with boxes of items to be stored away for someday when they will be needed by someone. I’ve been picking up several kitchen appliances at the local thrift store. And bags of clothing and a canning pressure cooker. And lots of little goodies.

And lots of DVDs; of course. I can’t resist getting a good movie no matter if I am practically broke. I came to realize that each of the movies I have cost millions of dollars to create. One way of looking at an absolute bargain. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That is my weakness or strength depending on how one sees it. About 20 of my movies are out on loan right now; I have seen them all and they have so much value when I can share them. Sitting on a shelf gathering dust helps no one. I always get them back and we have much to discuss and share.

I believe that we are living in a golden age of miracles yet few recognize it. Perhaps someday it will be written about like the Renaissance. It is just that when living during such a mind blowing time in history, people cannot see its progression and its totality. It is much like experiencing a movie or book and being in the middle in which the rest of the story is yet to unfold. A triumph or tragedy; only time will tell.

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away".

Percy Bysshe Shelley

We can own nothing in this world but only have use of it for a time for we are mortal.

The unbridled lust for money and power is an as yet unrecognized form of mental illness.

Our leaders’ responsibility is to enact the will of the people, not to be our rulers but rather our servants. I am not alone in feeling that the assassination of President Kennedy was a critical turning point in which the transformation from servant to ruler occurred.

I believe that we should be humbled by the cornucopia of opportunities to learn, laugh, love and share. It wasn’t too long ago that mankind was focused on surviving from day to day. However, we are living in a time of overwhelming plenty but are too immersed in wanting more and more, never stopping to smell the roses.

This bartering and horse trading is much more than it appears on the surface; beneath is the relationships gained. Some of my best friends have been found at garage sales. And others have come about from sharing with them some of the neat things that I have found. You can’t buy these friends; they are both free and priceless at the same time.

I highly recommend “The Handbook To Higher Consciousness” by Ken Keyes, Jr. In it he states “The highest stage of consciousness (the seventh center) is attained by reprogramming what is called the “self”. …Because one has transcended all personal boundaries, and experiences no separation from anyone or anything in the world, serving “others” is the only thing to do in life. For there are no “others”. Everything is experienced from an “us” space.”

We are all in this together. One Earth, one humanity. I like to think that the rest of the universe is watching….and waiting. Time to evolve, folks.

Best wishes,

Agnut

glad to see you guys an gals doing good . this has been one long azz winter . but i did get a ride in the other day it was good on the soul to be out riding . i hope the sales start up soon , i need to kick the rust off from the winter and get some funds coming in again . you all be good an safe mick