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Bitcoin doesn't have capital controls. It looks like Mt. Gox, one of many bitcoin exchanges, is enacting capital controls. The solution is, don't use Mt. Gox. They are about to get a lesson in free markets. By restricting withdrawals, people will move away from using them and move towards other exchanges.Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
Well said, buddy.
Wonder who is going to be the next [ex GSUS] Silver Shield/Chris Duane? Maybe the guy who's selling his house in Edm. for BTC.
Sure, it was different with the Internet bubble 2000 also, Internet companies were not to be valued according to how other companies were valued according to assets and profits, it was called a paradigm shift... With bitcoins you really have the ultimate bubble product, cause there is absolutely no way of determining its proper value, it could be $100,000 or it could be $1/100,000, it is all in the eye of the beholder. Right now the holders are probably the very few that started it, and mined millions of it when it was easy a couple of years ago, and a bunch of young people who don't have much money, but put what they could scrape together into bitcoins. The first group is making a killing, selling to the speculators coming in now. VERY unstable market!Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuro
Your thoughts are valued and should be given due consideration. One should not throw life-savings around willy-nilly.
Bitcoin is a gamble, but it is still a faaaar better bet than the lottery. Perhaps the members here should view it as such, and not necessarily as a digital rival to gold.
Also, the original Bitcoin whitepaper is here: http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
It's only 9 pages long.
If one wants to attack Bitcoin as a protocol, then the whitepaper (and of course the open source code as well) is the place to start finding flaws.
Check it out, bitcoins are settling lower into $117 range.
http://bitcoinmonitor.com/ Fun to watch the transactions.
BTC price currently $ 128.80 usd
mtgox or whatever it is called was "hacked" last night.
135 was 142 earlier.
Nah, it wasn't hacked. They suffered a DDoS attack. That's equivalent to say if I owned a botnet of a million or so nodes. I tell each one to visit gold-silver.us all at once and just keep refreshing the page to flood the server with millions of request. You'll choke any server with that type of an attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by chad
DDoS is a denial of service attack. Whoever was targeting Mtgox was doing it to interrupt bitcoin transactions is my guess.
The problem the bankers have with Bitcoin is they can't suppress the price with counterfeit coins. With gold and silver and the miners they can just create more paper to flood the market with and give the appearance of unlimited supply.
To suppress the bitcoin price they would have to sell bitcoins into the market. To do that they would have to buy bitcoins first which would drive the price higher. So they can't play games like they can with PM's.
This leaves them with hacking, and denial of service attacks to try and disrupt the market.
I was wondering why it was flat-lining yesterdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Ares
Yep, which is why I'm a fan of bitcoins. It cannot be manipulated like Gold / silver, fiat can be. No central issuing authority and has the potential to completely disrupt tyrannical governments the world over, including our own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Son-of-Liberty
I dunno, I reading some guys slagging it last night. Why?
FRN, CAD, Euro, GBP are worse that BTC to me. Those currencies have value by decree and is set by Central Banks in terms of inflation.
Of all places, I would think this is the last place to see people balk at BTC. It has everything going for it. -- No-one owns it or controls it; it has the potential to be a defacto globally accepted currency; payments can be made totally anonymously for the payer and recipient; easily convertible to cash or PMs.
What's not to like about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steyr_m
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...he-future.htmlQuote:
The program is set up so that there will be 21 million mined Bitcoins by 2140, and then it stops (there are about 11 million Bitcoins in circulation today).Each transaction has a unique digital signature so that everyone in the network can keep track of every Bitcoin and prevent counterfeiting or double-counting. Because the number of new Bitcoins is set to grow at predetermined rate, their value can’t be diluted or inflated away, they are far more portable than normal currency for use in online transactions, and they can be denominated down to 0.00000001, a “Satoshi” (named after Bitcoin’s pseudonymous creator, Satoshi Nakamoto). This has all the properties of a medieval mint -- security, limited supplies, and trustworthy denominations -- but is entirely decentralized.
t's a remarkable success, but it won't be the future of money. Even putting aside security problems -- not surprisingly, a digital currency is a favorite target of hackers -- there’s the potential that Bitcoin will turn from a way of doing anonymous, simple digital transactions and into a speculative-asset investment item, especially if it continues to soar in price. That might promote hoarding of Bitcoins by early adopters and choke off the marketplace.
Although transactions haven’t fallen off a cliff yet, a currency whose value is distinctly bubble-tastic is not something that even digital libertarians will readily spend.
Here’s where a state could easily step in by just … printing more money, so that economic activity is not choked off by scarcity or hoarding. This would be totally consistent with the C View, where money is created by states to facilitate economic activity. But since Bitcoins can only be produced at a predetermined rate, deflation is a constant possibility, or that Bitcoins turn more into a commodity people buy than a currency people use.
It's a remarkable success, but it won't be the future of money. Even putting aside security problems -- not surprisingly, a digital currency is a favorite target of hackers -- there’s the potential that Bitcoin will turn from a way of doing anonymous, simple digital transactions and into a speculative-asset investment item, especially if it continues to soar in price. That might promote hoarding of Bitcoins by early adopters and choke off the marketplace. Although transactions haven’t fallen off a cliff yet, a currency whose value is distinctly bubble-tastic is not something that even digital libertarians will readily spend.
Here’s where a state could easily step in by just … printing more money, so that economic activity is not choked off by scarcity or hoarding. This would be totally consistent with the C View, where money is created by states to facilitate economic activity. But since Bitcoins can only be produced at a predetermined rate, deflation is a constant possibility, or that Bitcoins turn more into a commodity people buy than a currency people use.
Even if Bitcoin remains a niche item for online libertarians, it is still a potent lesson in monetary economics. Call it the B View.
I know you didn't write that article Horn, but nobody on this forum should take this argument seriously. It's the same argument why gold shouldn't be money, because it can't be printed. They fear deflation, they fear a valuable money, they think a valuable money will kill the economy, when in fact a valuable money is the bedrock of a prosperous economy.Quote:
Here’s where a state could easily step in by just … printing more money, so that economic activity is not choked off by scarcity or hoarding. This would be totally consistent with the C View, where money is created by states to facilitate economic activity.
Gold has yet to be finite. Bitcoin is, i think anyway. Or at least the article states it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks
Finite money creates only death.
I asked this question awhile back and did not receive any concrete answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn
Money supply needs to grow at the same rate as the population, in order to maintain some sort of stability. With bitcoin, too many folks rush into it, and the price soars. There's only 21 million bitcoins (so they say). That means bitcoin, if used as a viable currency, has a capped limit to it's future. It maybe an investment, but not a currency. Currencies must move and change hands. You can park wealth in investments. Bitcoin, to prosper, must be able to grow, at a stable rate, with demand and the population.
This is why gold and silver seem to be the best currency. You can mine them, creating jobs, etc...and pull enough out of the ground to keep up with population growth....
Anyway, what do I know, I'm a blue collar guy who has greasy fingernails.
Butterfly labs just doubled their prices for mining rigs. Congrats if you bought one before the jump: http://www.butterflylabs.com/
Imagine had you (the unwashed mass) never come to know the cleanliness which is GSUS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitcher
I just like to hang out with folks who are smarter than me.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Horn
Every. Time. I visit this forum I learn something. That is a fact.
Not to belabor the point, but it is worthwhile, even at the current price of ~$120 -$140, to purchase at least one bitcoin. Just to have. I personally do not care what you do, but I am just trying to be that little voice that whispers "bitcoin" before it is everywhere and all over, and too damned expensive to afford a whole one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitcher
If I had bought $140 worth of bitcoins on the very first day I ever read the word "bitcoin", I'd have millions of dollars from that initial $140 or I could have mined them on my regular PC. Instead I was skeptical... and took the immediate attitude of "sounds like bullshit", but I finally got around to reading the whitepaper and really looking into it, and decided I definitely should have been in it from the beginning!
I started poking around mt gox and it looks like I have to upload my license and another proof of residency in order to buy/sell. Is there an easier/quicker way to go and buy some bitcoins?
Unfortunately not... Not a part I was all that comfortable with but once I get my ASIC miner I need a reliable place to sell my newly mined coins and mtgox is the most trusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by optionT
http://localbitcoins.comQuote:
Originally Posted by optionT
First, school yourself on bitcoin so you don't get fucked.
Then find people locally with cash or whatever other payment method, and exchange for bitcoin sent to an address that only you control, and that you have properly protected and backed up.
Or, ebay sellers are now selling bitcoin.
http://coinbase.com will link to a bank account and allow you to buy from them direct.
http://bitfloor.com - you can deposit cash in their account and be credited to buy BTC on their exchange.
http://bitinstant.com allows you to make a cash deposit at some gas stations and supposedly even walmart, and they sent bitcoin to you quickly.
You still wouldn't have been any wiser...Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420
How many "Satoshi" would you have spent by now, and what on?
Remember this thread... WOW so amazing!
http://gold-silver.us/forum/showthre...light=bitcoins
Last: 7.7039 USD
New: Max Keiser – Bullish on Bitcoins
—————————————————————————————
An interesting thread regarding Bitcoins is playing out on my own site right now. From “Robert,” here is something that may be of interest to Max and Stacey’s audience:
Bitcoin is NOT the brainchild of some random, anonymous genius.Since Cyprus, Bitcoins have gained in value tremendously- this week they even surpassed the parabolic slope and reached toward a truly vertical (and infinite) trajectory.
Do any of you find it counter-referential that the NSA is building the worlds largest/fastest cypher-cracking facility SPECIFICALLY in order to crack the AES cipher (which coincidentally underpins Bitcoin’s “unbreakable” security algorithm)?
Ummmm….. the NSA actually INVENTED the AES cipher in the first place.
And, is it not hysterical that they are going to spend 100 times more on this project than they spent on the project that originally delivered AES…?
Doctor Frankenstien- frantically trying to find the method to kill the beast that he himself unleashed on the world – comical, if not pathetically sad.
But, back to Bitcoins:
Bitcoins are designed to be “mined” ever more efficiently as processing speeds and machine memory continue accelerating due to Moore’s law (that’s Gordon, not me…)
So, The Bitcoin money supply is a function of how effectively computers do their work, just as the Gold money supply has always been a function of how effectively humans do their (real/honest) work.
Here’s the monetary rub with Bitcoin, and consider this CAREFULLY:
Governments each want their currency to rule all others – therefore, they inflate their own currency supply, and buy the others, creating currency strength that incapacitates the internal economy behind the competing currency.
If I was a Central Banker who understood the destructive nature of currency bubbles, would I not use my powers of infinite currency issuance to buy the living hell out of the competing currency? By doing so, I draw in the suckers who see the path to immediate riches, and then pull the rug out from under them at some random top, and watch the whole thing crash and burn…
Beware the Bitcoin.
Mind your Aristotle, my young (and old) disciples:
ALL real and valid money has inherent and intrinsic value (meaning it can never be regarded as totally “worthless” by society)
Bitcoins are data. Data is inherently worthless, except when used as a constructor to true information.
Money is information- it indicates that the holder produces more than they consume, and that they have generated an excess of production that they wish to trade for other forms of excess production.
How can my smartphone full of Bitcoins demonstrate or prove that I am productive?
And here’s a further post from Robert re Silver:
The urge to go 100% Martingale must be be eating at the psyche of the London physical traders right now…
The New York futures market is speculative – it can easily and readily go to zero. Profits are made at the margin, and the futures margins ANYWAYS move inverse to retail premiums on “real” products.
Anyone taken a solid look at retail premiums on bullion products lately?
You find me JUST ONE Silver product anywhere on Earth that can be had for less than $30 per ounce, and I’ll show you a product that is “out of stock”
I fully expect the Wall Street hyenas to start feasting on each other (ala late 2008) real soon here…
http://maxkeiser.com/2013/04/04/rega...ns/#more-65374
I would look into bitinstant if you are in the US. That is how I would have bought some but I live in Canada and they do not service us yet. You can place an order, and print out a receipt. Take it to walmart, they will scan the receipt and then you pay them. Once you have paid they will deposit bitcoins to your wallet.Quote:
Originally Posted by optionT
I haven't done this just what I read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by optionT
The most popular bitcoin exchange, Tokyo-based Mt.Gox announced overnight that it had been the victim of a hacking attack after experiencing a severe lag with its systems. The complications meant the price quickly sank to below $115 before regaining ground to $130 by 6.00 a.m. London time on Thursday, according to Bitcoincharts.com.
Linky
:o
DDOS is a pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewboo
Probably some guy who is attempting to drive down the price of bitcoins so he can buy a bunch.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420
perhaps it time to change the name of the forum to bitcoin-litecoin.us.
Here's a place where you can buy and sell bitcoins locally:
https://localbitcoins.com/
And here's the sound of change taking place:
http://www.listentobitcoin.com/
What happens when they hit the magic ceiling, do they all self-destruct?Quote:
The program is set up so that there will be 21 million mined Bitcoins by 2140, and then it stops (there are about 11 million Bitcoins in circulation today)
Miners will be forced to reduce their work hours shortly, to span their lifespan.
The algorithms make it mathematically impossible to create any more coins. The more coins that are found, the more difficult they are to find.
Basically if you mined Bitcoins 3 years ago you'd discover more with the same computing power than if you did today, since the difficulty has increased since then.
Booo, They should then at some interval start reversing themselves to de-mine at random, so you have to spend it before it destructs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae
or they turn into to butterfly bitcoins after being cocooned until another one is created in their image.
Why do I have all the better ideas?
Imagine what the CIA/Rothschilds/NSA bit mining rig looks like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebu_4_2
Heck, they could mine the crap out of bitcoins and play pump and dump.
I wonder if this guy will find any takers...
Silver Dime Rolls for Bitcoins
I'd jump on that. Imagine, what is better 150 silver dimes or .75 bitcoin, don't pass that up madfranks....that guy has no clue about silver anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks