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We have a variety of views. Let's see what the breakdown is. I will make the poll anonymous, but you can state what you wish in then thread. I apologize in advance if you do not like the choices. The poll will stay open indefinitely. You may only pick one poll option.
As most of you would imagine, I picked choice 1, God is the Christian God.
I don't think its 50/50.
There are plenty of forum members that don't subscribe to any of the Abrahamic traditions but seem sure there is an omnipotent entity.
I actually think it takes a lot of strength to discard the notion of god's, contrary to popular opinion. I also don't think most atheists are immoral or even amoral which is also counter to the prevailing thoughts around here.
Jewish atheism is not the same thing either, this stems from a completely different view of god where 'god' is not so much an all powerful entity as it is the will of the Jewish people themselves. I've written about this aspect of Jewish atheism before.
Contrary to popular opinion, only Jews think that they can be atheists, non-Jewish atheists are a threat to Jewish ideology and thus they treat them with a profound contempt that is worse than the mere ridicule reserved for Christians.
Just clearing the air preemptively before all the chest nuts get paraded out...
I think we should have a poll as to determine the available choices of this poll.
I don't think the options quite cover everything. I won't claim the below description is the end of the discussion, but I think this perspective is one to consider:
Deity
The Gnostic God concept is more subtle than that of most religions. In its way, it unites and reconciles the recognitions of Monotheism and Polytheism, as well as of Theism, Deism and Pantheism.
http://gnosis.org/images/blakewe1.jpg
In the Gnostic view, there is a true, ultimate and transcendent God, who is beyond all created universes and who never created anything in the sense in which the word “create” is ordinarily understood. While this True God did not fashion or create anything, He (or, It) “emanated” or brought forth from within Himself the substance of all there is in all the worlds, visible and invisible. In a certain sense, it may therefore be true to say that all is God, for all consists of the substance of God. By the same token, it must also be recognized that many portions of the original divine essence have been projected so far from their source that they underwent unwholesome changes in the process. To worship the cosmos, or nature, or embodied creatures is thus tantamount to worshipping alienated and corrupt portions of the emanated divine essence.
The basic Gnostic myth has many variations, but all of these refer to Aeons, intermediate deific beings who exist between the ultimate, True God and ourselves. They, together with the True God, comprise the realm of Fullness (Pleroma) wherein the potency of divinity operates fully. The Fullness stands in contrast to our existential state, which in comparison may be called emptiness.
One of the aeonial beings who bears the name Sophia (“Wisdom”) is of great importance to the Gnostic world view. In the course of her journeyings, Sophia came to emanate from her own being a flawed consciousness, a being who became the creator of the material and psychic cosmos, all of which he created in the image of his own flaw. This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker and by his cosmic minions, the Archons or “rulers”.
I am somewhere between a deist and a doubter of the existence of a god. I voted for deist here. In terms of strength of society I think people in general where better off prior to the dominance of monotheism.
I don't think most non-Jewish atheists are immoral either, but it's only because of Christian influence most were exposed to from an early age, when the US was a mostly a Christian society.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze
With with Christainity waning today and Jewish atheism filling the void, being pushed on society, new generations of atheists are becoming less moral then previous generations. It's easy to see with homosexuality now being promoted as normal and healthy.
I often use an analogy with non-Jewish atheists, "what keeps them from killing their neighbor to take what they have?" If they knew they would not be caught and put in prison, there would be no reason not to kill...would there?
Does anyone not see, it is Jewish atheists that run/control everything that is important to society.
It is Jewish atheists that also control and profit from everything evil in society.
It always amazes me that most Christains worship these white/Christian hating Jewish atheist and even place them above themselves and their country.
If you think they are actually atheists in the non-jewish sense, then I have have to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_
As I've stated before in not so many words their needs from a 'god' has changed considerably from their tribal days pre OT.
Today, they neither fear their god nor worship him. He is merely a vehicle for the dominance of the jewish people over non-jews. Their understanding of their 'god' today is merely symbolic of some divine right the jewish people reserve strictly for themselves. It is an anthropomorphic representation of their desires and nothing more. To them their is no moral imperative that would ever override the prime jewish directive of survival and subordination of non-jews. They reserve the right to use god as vehicle to dominate on the one hand and on the other to utterly discard the concept when they see fit.
This is hardly the same as a non jewish atheist.
As far as moral action is concerned, there is none greater than the desire to see ones offspring survive and thrive, this is what ultimately governs moral behaviors in close social circles, the rest is just invective righteousness invented with little purpose other than dominance. This 'moral' code doesn't require invention through religious thought, it is inherent.
I'm not sure I understand this? My reference was to Jewish born people, people that call themselves Jews and atheists.Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze
I don't agree that moral code is inherent. Man is not born with it.Quote:
As far as moral action is concerned, there is none greater than the desire to see ones offspring survive and thrive, this is what ultimately governs moral behaviors in close social circles, the rest is just invective righteousness invented with little purpose other than dominance. This 'moral' code doesn't require invention through religious thought, it is inherent.
Many in the world have no moral code. Where is their inherent moral code?
As far as survival of your offspring, what keeps you from killing anyone that treats your child poorly?
What keeps you from killing another child that bullies, or hits your child? Only the threat of prison, by man's laws?
I dont know for sure... but I am pretty sure there is no magic man in the sky that created everything Nor does he/she do anything when people pray for things to happen! Here are the questions that always come to me when I ponder the possibility of a god.
Why would a supreme being have to create people and require them to worship him? And be so punitive to punish people that dont... and punish them for eternity! WOW... such a prick! Is god insecure or have a megalomaniac mind set?
Why does anyone with such powers need this worship? Seems odd. Also if god created EVERYTHING... where did he exist before he created everything? In another dimension? If so then he didnt create everything because at some point their would be nothing and nowhere to exist for himself.
To me god is a fix for the basic insecurity that we animals with self awareness created to placate our fears about death and the unknown. I am content to live my life... die and return to the elements that I am made of to nourish future generations of life on our planet. I need no place to go when I die to live for eternity with god and my loved ones.
There are and have been many religions and views of what god is... Why now is this one the only true god? I am sure all the other people around the world and through time felt that their god(s) were also the true god too! Religion and the believe in a god is used to control the populous! Always has and always will!