Of Diocletian's edictum de pretiis and Obama

I invite you to read the last few sentences of the below article from The Lessons of History, by Will and Ariel Durant. It is about how the destruction of the Roman Empire through the taxation channel made people 'slaves,' in other words how serfdom emerged. You can also find an online version of the book, thanks to Google.

"Rome had its socialist interlude under Diocletian. Faced with increasing poverty and restlessness among the masses, and with the imminent danger of barbarian invasion*, he issued in A.D. 301 an edictum de pretiis, which denounced monopolists for keeping goods from the market to raise prices, and set maximum prices and wages for all important articles and services. Extensive public works were undertaken to put the unemployed to work**, and food was distributed gratis***, or at reduced prices, to the poor. The government – which already owned most mines, quarries, and salt deposits – brought nearly all major industries and guilds under detailed control. 'In every large town,' we are told, 'the state became a powerful employer, standing head and shoulders above the private industrialists, who were in any case crushed by taxation.' When businessmen predicted ruin, Diocletian explained that the barbarians were at the gate****, and that individual liberty had to be shelved until collective liberty could be made secure. The socialism of Diocletian was a war economy, made possible by fear of foreign attack. Other factors equal, internal liberty varies inversely with external danger.

"The task of controlling men in economic detail proved too much for Diocletian's expanding, expensive, and corrupt bureaucracy. To support this officialdom – the army, the courts, public works, and the dole – taxation rose to such heights that people lost the incentive to work or earn*****, and an erosive contest began between lawyers finding devices to evade taxes and lawyers formulating laws to prevent evasion. Thousands of Romans, to escape the tax gatherer, fled over the frontiers to seek refuge among the barbarians******. Seeking to check this elusive mobility and to facilitate regulation and taxation, the government issued decrees binding the peasant to his field and the worker to his shop until all their debts and taxes had been paid*******. In this and other ways medieval serfdom began."

The parallels between Diocletian and Obama vis-à-vis public policy, debt, punitive taxation, attacks on personal wealth and private property, bureaucratic abuse and corruption and others are striking.

*TSA airport security, total body scans, invasion of privacy, all to supposedly keep out terrorists

**Remember Obama’s Shovel-ready public works program?

***Food stamps, SNAP

****The eternal ‘war on terror,’ best excuse for government excess ever invented

*****Labor participation rate dropping precipitously as millions simply stop looking for work and the government no longer counts them so as to artificially suppress the unemployment rate.

******Americans are renouncing their citizenship and leaving the country in record numbers – this has never happened before.

*******Recently, a bill has been proposed in Congress authorizing the TSA to sieze the passport of and detain any American attempting to leave the country with gretaer than $50,000 in outstanding debt. Diocletian lives!

Capital weather it be financial or living will always flow to the shores where it is most appreciated.


Simple logic would dictate.

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the government – which already owned most mines, quarries, and salt deposits – brought nearly all major industries and guilds under detailed control. 'in every large town,' we are told, 'the state became a powerful employer, standing head and shoulders above the private industrialists, who were in any case crushed by taxation.' when businessmen predicted ruin, diocletian explained that the barbarians were at the gate****, and that individual liberty had to be shelved until collective liberty could be made secure. The socialism of diocletian was a war economy, made possible by fear of foreign attack. Other factors equal, internal liberty varies inversely with external danger.

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The similarities between our Competitive Capitalistic Republic/American Empire and the Roman Republic/Roman Empire are astaounding.

If you want to know the future, and what it will bring to you and your family, read read read about Rome. Its all there. The building and crumbling of the greatest Empire this world has ever nown.

We are following in their footsteps.......To a 'T'.

The massive welfare state, the overbearing taxes, the massive Military, the class warfare, the corrupted poiticians, and the death of the Individual.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

...Seeking to check this elusive mobility and to facilitate regulation and taxation, the government issued decrees binding the peasant to his field and the worker to his shop until all their debts and taxes had been paid...

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http://www.homedsgn.com/2011/03/29/t...enthouse-01-3/http://www.homedsgn.com/wp-content/u...house-01-3.jpg

http://www.wharf.co.uk/00jul17superyacht1.jpg

https://totallyultimate.files.wordpr...08/06/jet2.jpg

::) we must stop food stamps to the barbarians

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Originally Posted by Book

http://www.homedsgn.com/2011/03/29/t...enthouse-01-3/http://www.homedsgn.com/wp-content/u...house-01-3.jpg

http://www.wharf.co.uk/00jul17superyacht1.jpg

https://totallyultimate.files.wordpr...08/06/jet2.jpg

::) we must stop food stamps to the barbarians

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Book,

Your socialist (self-serving) leanings are well known to many here. If you lived in the days of Diocletian, I'm confident that you'd be happy to have him massage your prostate in exchange for some government cheese.

The same could be said for all 8 years of W.

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Originally Posted by osoab

The same could be said for all 8 years of W.

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The greater or lesser degrees, depending on the specifics, the same can be said of W, Bush senior, Clinton and even Nixon, who in fact instituted price controls for a brief time.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

The greater or lesser degrees, depending on the specifics, the same can be said of W, Bush senior, Clinton and even Nixon, who in fact instituted price controls for a brief time.

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I was thinking more along the lines of draconian security measures. W and Obummer are in a different class compared to the rest overall.

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Originally Posted by osoab

I was thinking more along the lines of draconian security measures. W and Obummer are in a different class compared to the rest overall.

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Well, we've got TSA doing stuff that is totally unconstitutional, mandatory health care (unless the Supreme Court suddenly snaps out of it's socialist coma), random road blocks, DHA buying ammo as if a civil war is imminent, and an illegal alien Marxist as POTUS, and on and on. If my father was alive today he would be apoplectic. It's quite unbelievable how fast civil liberties and the rule of law have gone south. What's more astounding is the sheep-like passivity of the public. Yes, we are living in a police state here and now, without any doubt. I don't think there are nay limits on what the state will do to maintain power; and I have zero confidence in the courts vis-a-vis protecting the rights of individual citizens.

When the flag changes the entity it represents becomes different as well. My father fought in WWI (phase II) for a flag with 48 stars and I have no objection to that entity. When it later morphed into a flag with 50 stars a completely different entity came into existence.

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Originally Posted by palani

When the flag changes the entity it represents becomes different as well. My father fought in WWI (phase II) for a flag with 48 stars and I have no objection to that entity. When it later morphed into a flag with 50 stars a completely different entity came into existence.

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Yep, Obama is the textbook example of the worst that could happen vis-a-vis granting statehood to Hawaii, gateway to fake U.S. birth certificates for third worlders, communists and sundry other unwashed masses.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

the worst that could happen vis-a-vis granting statehood to Hawaii

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Evidence recorded Harry S. Truman executed some shenanigans on/around June 25, 1948 that resulted in federal districts being imposed. He did this while congress was in recess and then called them back in emergency session. That bit of treason (once identified and duly recorded) makes it possible to state that Alaska and Hawaii have never entered the union under the same conditions as the 48 before them. If interested I could give you the recorder number for these documents detailing Truman's acts available certified from the Vermillion county Ohio recorders office for a sum of around $30.

The more people who know of this and who are willing to present it to the feds at every opportunity the better.

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Originally Posted by palani

Evidence recorded Harry S. Truman executed some shenanigans on/around June 25, 1948 that resulted in federal districts being imposed. He did this while congress was in recess and then called them back in emergency session. That bit of treason (once identified and duly recorded) makes it possible to state that Alaska and Hawaii have never entered the union under the same conditions as the 48 before them. If interested I could give you the recorder number for these documents detailing Truman's acts available certified from the Vermillion county Ohio recorders office for a sum of around $30.

The more people who know of this and who are willing to present it to the feds at every opportunity the better.

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Please post that recorder number Palani. I'm sure we're not the only ones interested in this topic.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

Please post that recorder number Palani. I'm sure we're not the only ones interested in this topic.

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Contact Lori Porter for the costs
http://www.vermilliongov.us/recorder.html

It is Vermillion County, Indiana rather than Ohio ... memory fails.

The Doc Numbers are
200702779 - 31 pages ... $31 at $1 a page

notice to purported new attorney general of the u.s. ...
200900141 - 4-5 pages at $1 a page

She will let you know what postage costs are as well. Best include a SASE with a LARGE manilla envelope and a postal money order to cover her costs.

Should note as well these docs are available on Adask's site here
http://adask.wordpress.com/category/dennis-craig/

altho you need the certified copies if you plan on relying upon them.