Has the collapse begun? Is paper gold selling in a panic to buy physical?

The paper prices of gold and silver appear to be in free fall collapse. This is far faster than even TPTB would want IMHO because it puts tremendous strain on the bullion supply and is disruptive to markets. I am now wondering: are paper gold and silver prices collapsing as large players panic out of paper and make a mad dash for physical bullion? Why are COMEX inventories suddenly dropping in a waterfall? Why are GLD shares being redeemed at such a rapid pace? I am past worrying about the prices of gold and silver vis-a-vis my physical holdings. I have a bed feeling about what is transpiring now. I sense panic and fear, and those are never good when they're associated with markets. What do you guys think: is this just a mid-70s style vicious correction or is the bottom falling out of the paper gold market in prelude to the big collapse as foretold by FOFOA?:|~

I think this is the Asian hangover from Friday.

The drop can be driven by emotion stimulated by manipulation- of course. It does not have to make much sense logically... or fundamentally. Roller-coasters are more fun when they have steep dives. Just don't have a heart attack from the G-forces.

I think this is quite serious

this might be the final act of desperation


awhile back Richard maybury explained the fed policy, and inflation like this

like pushing on a string.

you get waves of deflation

then waves of inflation

there seems to be some issues worldwide with velocity of money, people are scared to spend, invest, etc their money

Cyprus theft, and Japanese monster QE are in some regards sending a message to savers, get out there and party like its 1999

have to see what happens, but primarily it is psychology, as the good dr mamboni pointed out

agreed, the velocity of money is the main issue. Debt has to be created faster than it is extinguished. Consumers are not doing this so the Govt has to step in. As the people are the source of all credit/energy they get stiffed with the debt regardless.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/197125/thu...ANKE-large.jpg

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Dr. Roberts: “This is an orchestration (the smash in gold). It’s been going on now from the beginning of April. Brokerage houses told their individual clients the word was out that hedge funds and institutional investors were going to be dumping gold and that they should get out in advance.

Then, a couple of days ago, Goldman Sachs announced there would be further departures from gold. So what they are trying to do is scare the individual investor out of bullion. Clearly there is something desperate going on….
“I have assumed from the beginning that it is the Fed’s concern with the dollar because the dollar is being printed in huge quantities at the same time that other countries are abandoning the use of the dollar as international payment.

The exchange value of the dollar is (being) threatened, and if that collapses the Fed loses control over interest rates. Then the bond market blows up, the stock market blows up, and the banks that are too big to fail, fail. So it’s an act of desperation because they’ve got to establish in people’s minds that the dollar is the only safe place, it is the only safe haven, not gold, not silver, and not other currencies.

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Linky

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Originally Posted by Spectrism

The drop can be driven by emotion stimulated by manipulation- of course. It does not have to make much sense logically... or fundamentally. Roller-coasters are more fun when they have steep dives. Just don't have a heart attack from the G-forces.

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So true. What is going on with the metals prices is like a storm. Weather is created naturally or perhaps in this case they have been using their haarp machine. In any case there is turbulence. It is a hell of a ride but we are experiencing wind-sheer. Hold on to your seat. If you need the vomit bag, use it, but realize that the aircraft is sound and there is still plenty of space between the craft and the ground. What goes up can come down, but what is forced down, will spring back up. Now is a good time to buy if one has the money.

I would suggest keeping a fair portion of your powder dry for now. Cover your vital needs first. I think very few of us will survive past 3 years so the idea of holding wealth through this storm is a false dream. We are in times UNLIKE any that have gone before. Many will say there have been world wars and famines and depressions and great genocides. I say- true. But the size of what is being unleashed makes all that went before seem small. The gun control push and the grab for weapons to fight law-abiding citizens should be the only clue you need. They mean to snuff all voices of liberty.

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Originally Posted by Large Sarge

I think this is quite serious

this might be the final act of desperation


awhile back Richard maybury explained the fed policy, and inflation like this

like pushing on a string.

you get waves of deflation

then waves of inflation

there seems to be some issues worldwide with velocity of money, people are scared to spend, invest, etc their money

Cyprus theft, and Japanese monster QE are in some regards sending a message to savers, get out there and party like its 1999

have to see what happens, but primarily it is psychology, as the good dr mamboni pointed out

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The vexing question for the individual is: where is it safe to park one's wealth? Cash? Stocks and Bonds? Gold? Real Estate?

The vast majority of people have not discovered gold as an option for capital allocation. This recent correction/collapse will either be seen as a major negative or a major opportunity. Faber thinks the latter. Time will tell.

mamboni, im sticking with silver ,lead and gold. I honestly believe this IS the beginning....this will follow the ammo shortage. first, the gov hoarding ammo ( slv & gld) then when the sheep realize the gov's intent the panic buying begins ....but alas, supply will not be found. jmho

Litecoins are one of the best investments now I think. Call me crazy, but that's just my opinion. I could be wrong, and it is a risky bet.

I also don't think you should park your wealth all in one place. Do a bit of everything. My biggest regret is having so much Silver and Gold, personally now I'd like to have more cash, but I wouldn't dare sell at these prices.

Seriously though, I know a lot of you guys think this Cryptocurrency stuff is nonsense, but the best time to buy usually is right after a crash. Prices have stabilized (so far) at about $100 a BTC. The ratio between Litecoins to Bitcoins has been going up approximately 3-8% a day, and I seem to be the only one noticing this trend. Even if prices with Litecoins stabilize, you get more Bitcoins everyday for your Litecoins.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

The vexing question for the individual is: where is it safe to park one's wealth? Cash? Stocks and Bonds? Gold? Real Estate?

The vast majority of people have not discovered gold as an option for capital allocation. This recent correction/collapse will either be seen as a major negative or a major opportunity. Faber thinks the latter. Time will tell.

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Rick Rule says he uses Gold as Cash.

sometimes his cash gets $1600 an ounce, sometimes, $1400 an ounce ... sometimes, $1700 an ounce.


a 1/10 ounce Gold Eagle makes a far better $100 bill than a $100 bill. it's prettier, it has intrinsic value, it takes up less room - and today it's still worth $140+.

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Originally Posted by gunDriller

Rick Rule says he uses Gold as Cash.

sometimes his cash gets $1600 an ounce, sometimes, $1400 an ounce ... sometimes, $1700 an ounce.


a 1/10 ounce Gold Eagle makes a far better $100 bill than a $100 bill. it's prettier, it has intrinsic value, it takes up less room - and today it's still worth $140+.

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Rick Rule is filthy rich. While I aspire to think of my wealth in gold grams and silver ounces, unfortunately the tax man only accepts FRNs. Gold and silver are weak versus the FRN, short term.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

Rick Rule is filthy rich. While I aspire to think of my wealth in gold grams and silver ounces, unfortunately the tax man only accepts FRNs. Gold and silver are weak versus the FRN, short term.

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Dunno if this is relevant, but saw it earlier today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuwWWQwGWNY

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Originally Posted by Shami-Amourae

Dunno if this is relevant, but saw it earlier today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuwWWQwGWNY

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Good interview - Rick Rule is very wise and has an iron investment back.

Take away pearls: what's your alternative to holding physical gold? Treasuries? Yen? Yuan?
You hold gold for the long term based on the fundamentals which will prevail in the end.
Silver is like gold except supplies are very tight (draw your own conclusions).
Whether the system ends in deflationary collapse or hyperinflationary collapse you want to be holding physical gold (and silver).

Bottom line: sit tight or accumulate more, be patient, remain resolved and have faith in the fundmentals.

If i have a 100 grand i would break it into thirds

35k in physical cash in multiple denominations. nothing above 50 dollars because most wont beable to make change.

33 in Phyisical silver preferabally in mercury dimes because the premium is absolutely a pittance.

33 in tangible assests. this is the most difficult to cover because where does one start. Look around your house and start to purchase the most useful things and items that keep you comfortable and sanitary

But if i was sitting on a massive insurance check for example I would definately want Physical cash and physical hard currency both in my hand because we now have indisputable proof just how fast you can wake up stark naked.

100K? First, consider that the controllers are planning to usher in a new currency system. Cash will become worthless soon. Right now, however, cash will be king for a day. It will be useful when nobody else has any to spend. You will need to be able to swoop in on bargains and haul them away lightning fast. At some point, the cash will be shut off.

I could spend $30k on a long term solar power system alone. I could spend another $10k on food. And another $10 on weapons & ammo.

What is left in cash would be ready to scarf up super deals with the intent of having no more cash than is needed for emergencies and bills to cover the next 3 years. Part of that would be things you could barter with. Extra food, coffee, hardware, energy services, etc.

I fully agree with your assement.

I just find myself day dreaming about a large sum of "money" like that and how quickly i could make it dissapear on useful goods

When gold and silver stop bidding for dollars, the paper price crashes and then the paper markets crash and then the price and value become one. We are almost there.

Buy Low, sell high. With all the countries and banks buying tons of gold, I would not be surprised if the price is being squashed so more gold can be bought for less dollars/euros. Hold what you got and buy more if you can.

Time is working against the American Dollar as is with all currencies. It is only a matter of time before another adjustment comes but in higher gold and silver prices.

I remember what the Ex-Fed Chairman Greenspan said. Something like, "I can print all the dollars you want but I can't guarantee they will buy anything. I take this also to mean. I can print all the dollars you want but I can not guarantee you will be able to buy gold or silver with it.

Everyone is rushing into the dollar from euros and such. I have a friend in Argentina that immediately converts his Argentinian money into dollars...or gold.

They want people to panic sell. Then big money comes in and buys everything up...and then boom...Price moves higher.

I am somewhat flabbergasted that the law of supply and demand is not affecting metal prices as they should in a supply and demand market.

The metals market is deliberately being squashed. It won't last for long.

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Originally Posted by Atocha

Buy Low, sell high. With all the countries and banks buying tons of gold, I would not be surprised if the price is being squashed so more gold can be bought for less dollars/euros. Hold what you got and buy more if you can.

Time is working against the American Dollar as is with all currencies. It is only a matter of time before another adjustment comes but in higher gold and silver prices.

I remember what the Ex-Fed Chairman Greenspan said. Something like, "I can print all the dollars you want but I can't guarantee they will buy anything. I take this also to mean. I can print all the dollars you want but I can not guarantee you will be able to buy gold or silver with it.

Everyone is rushing into the dollar from euros and such. I have a friend in Argentina that immediately converts his Argentinian money into dollars...or gold.

They want people to panic sell. Then big money comes in and buys everything up...and then boom...Price moves higher.

I am somewhat flabbergasted that the law of supply and demand is not affecting metal prices as they should in a supply and demand market.

The metals market is deliberately being squashed. It won't last for long.

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Yes, your words ring of truth. But why punish the monkey (silver) and let the organ grinder go (gold)?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...osbuying_0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Twisted Titan

I fully agree with your assement.

I just find myself day dreaming about a large sum of "money" like that and how quickly i could make it dissapear on useful goods

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I wish I could help you make dreams become reality. It would be a fun adventure.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Salty

When gold and silver stop bidding for dollars, the paper price crashes and then the paper markets crash and then the price and value become one. We are almost there.

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I think the other way around.... the paper price skyrockets. There won't be enough worthless paper for an ounce of gold. You are right in your viewpoint- but are gold & silver really bidding for dollars or is it the money managers pretending they are? Since there is no physical metal to tie to the bids, I think the game is all fake at this point. They will convey so many tons of metals to keep up appearances, but they are keen to buy off demand with excess paper profits when supplies are showing too lean.

gold VIX at record levels (pre-lehman),
something huge has broken


seriously

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...nverted-lehman

Things we KNOW : powerful forces are working in concert with the enemies of freedom to make it APPEAR that pm's are suddenly worth LESS than they were a few days ago. and, even they are unable to do this with actually buying or selling actual pm's so, just like the newsmedia they shuffle paper,print lies, and watch the sheep panic in their little pens. I am not panicing not selling not changing my plan of converting worthless paper to eternally valuable silver.

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Originally Posted by mamboni

Yes, your words ring of truth. But why punish the monkey (silver) and let the organ grinder go (gold)?

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That is the million dollar question. Things do not make sense sometimes. Perhaps the powers that be do not want people to be independent. In fact I know they don't.

Gold, Silver, Beans and Bullets. I have seen what they have done to the ammo supply, I see what they are doing to gold and silver. Will food be next?

Water eventually finds its level. There is to much sloshing right now.

Instead of confiscation, which is hard to do, make the people panic and they themselves will sell it. I am not going to panic.

Damn the torpedoes...Full steam ahead.

Agree! From what I understand, it is not necessarily that Gold or Silver is worth less BUT the dollar is stronger or weaker.

With the deficit in the TRILLIONS or maybe QUADRILLIONS, a sane person can not tell me that the pieces of paper backed by the American Taxpayer are worth more than a tangible item. The American Taxpayer is quickly becoming extinct. They are just moving digits on spreadsheet columns making the appearance that gold and silver has no value. It is a lie.

so maybe they are getting rid of all their short positions, to let the metals run, about a week ago Sinclair said there was a shift in the market


they would need 1 final plow down to unwind all those positions,

Jim Willie explains it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5rZlkoDZKQ&feature=player_embedded

The market makers have been doing this since the beginning.

They make their big bucks by making things go up and down. They bet both ways, and move the market right where they want it.

They will bet it going up soon and make another killing.

It has nothing to do with how much physical silver you and I buy or how hard it is for us to find any.

I say this every time people try to figure out wtf is going on.

Like I always do, I will buy in on the major dips and continue to all the way down, wherever that point is.

Then when *they* raise it back up I will sell most of it.

Play the game with them and make some money yo!!!

I think Holter is dead on correct. All of us suffer from some degree of normalcy bias. We've been hearing predictions of a COMEX default and closing of the physical gold and silver window for years and it hasn't happened. We think it never will happen. Holter is predicting that the event is imminent. Once it happens, and the realization sinks in, it will be too late. The good news is that if you already hold physical then you covered and insured!


Force Majeure Was the End Game All Along!

Author : Bill Holter
Published: April 15th, 2013
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Last week Barrick Resources announced the postponement of their giant Pascua Lama mine. This was to be one of the worlds largest mines and is now tied up in litigation over true ownership as it appears to show that Barrick does not have clear title. The probable reserves were nearly 18 million ounces of gold and almost 700 million ounces of silver. Work on this mine was completely ceased last Wednesday.


Last Wednesday was also an important day for the Kennecott copper mine in Utah, the ground started to shift more rapidly prior to this weekend’s landslide. They knew this was coming as they closed the visitor center on April 1st and had all equipment and personnel out of harms way. This mine produces some 400,000 ounces of gold and over 3 million ounces of silver as a by product of copper. This is the largest copper mine on the planet. Have you heard even a peep out of the mainstream media on this on? I didn’t think so.


Is it not strange that these two events came to a head last Wednesday? The same day that out of nowhere gold reversed from being up and give up $40? And then of course there was Friday with $85 and another $75 this morning. gold is now down $200 per ounce in just over 3 trading days. Between these two projects, one not coming online and the other going off line, a VERY significant amount of production is not going to happen. Does this make sense? Did you not learn in school that “less” supply meant higher prices? In the real world?


We don’t live in “the real world”, we live in a world where everything financial is manipulated. Here is what I see happening. They knew that this mine was going to collapse and the production would stop. Then the ruling on the Pascua Lama mine was sent down. Last Thursday president Obama met with 15 heads of the biggest banks and brokers in the country, THIS was discussed as sure as the sun came up this morning: we have hit the bottom of the barrel! Reserves that could be fed into the market are and have dried up at the same time that production has dropped and future production delayed. The paper game is blowing up …RIGHT NOW and the topic of discussion at the White House was about “how it would play out.”


The COMEX will default in the next week or several weeks and people will be “settled” with dollars, no more metal will be delivered! So, knowing that “game over” has arrived, they are dumping a massive volume of paper contracts with impunity to push the metals prices as low as possible before the “default.” This way the “shorts” do not have to and will not be “covered” when “supply” cannot be obtained because of “an act of God.” They will be settled in cash (at a profit no less) because these “unforeseen” disruptions in supply. “Who could have seen it coming?” will be the mantra. I would suspect that banking stress and “bail ins” will also become prevalent globally. The pricing structure will now push any and all physical sellers away from the markets and the “door” to safety is effectively being shut. Either you own metal or you don’t.


I tried to “be nice” in my piece from last night talking to those who worry about price. What is now happening is exactly what I spoke of. You must count ounces because “availability” is going away right here and right now! After the closure of the COMEX and LBMA doors there will be no availability and “price” will be meaningless. Your ability to protect yourself is right now for all intents and purposes being eliminated.


We received a few (very few) angry letters from customers who say that Jim Sinclair, Mr. Sprott and Embry, James Turk and others including myself are and were wrong. That we should hang our heads in shame and that we are nothing more than charlatans hawking gold and silver. We will soon, very soon, see just how right or wrong we really are. What is happening right now is very clear to me, what I don’t understand is how anyone could miss this as it has all been laid out for you to see (for years now), understand and prepare for. Life, all of life as we knew it, is about to change forever. Hopefully you understood this and have already prepared for it!

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Originally Posted by mamboni

because these “unforeseen” disruptions in supply

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http://silverdoctors.com/wp-content/...ilver-mine.jpg

first they came for are guns then they came for are gold and silver ... so whats next the food and water our bodys need so we can live

To be living in times when the Comex and LBMA go belly up is perhaps one of the coolest things ever...if you hold physical.

This beat down must be the canary in the coal mine. No other rational explanation is possible. Printing to infinity and gold is more in demand than ever. Yep, its price should be crashing.

Certainly, JPMorgan and the other crooked commercials have bought super-aggressively in gold, silver, copper, platinum, palladium and crude oil on Friday and previously. It is clear that this buying has set the stage for the coming resolution to the upside. When, not if, that rally commences the question will be how aggressively the commercials sell and specifically, how much, if any, does JPMorgan add to silver short positions. Considering that JPMorgan and the commercials are now better positioned in gold, silver and copper for a significant price advance than at any time I can recall in the past, it would not be surprising for the coming upturn to develop into the big one in silver.


-Ted Butler, ButlerResearch.com



John Paulson (who's made a huge $1.5Bn loss so far) said that his position is unchanged and he's sticking with his commitment to gold.

All I can figure is that there are worries about SPain, Italy, Portugal and Greece having to sell their gold to pay off debts. AND, there are banksters with short positions that need to be covered with much cheaper PM prices. They started a stampede to run the buffalo off the cliff. It sure is easier getting the whole herd to commit suicide.

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Originally Posted by Spectrism

All I can figure is that there are worries about SPain, Italy, Portugal and Greece having to sell their gold to pay off debts. AND, there are banksters with short positions that need to be covered with much cheaper PM prices. They started a stampede to run the buffalo off the cliff. It sure is easier getting the whole herd to commit suicide.

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See my post just prior to yours. I've been readings voraciously and thinking on the info available and the different perspectives of the experts. Here's the big picture (I think):

1. I think Japan's BOJ was the trigger. With their massive QE announced, the yen started falling and the gold price in yen started going parabolic.
2. The big boys saw Japan and said: "this thing is ripe, if not Japan now it'd be someone else later. Time to bust gold, rotate out of shorts and go long, and free up some physical to keep China and Russia at bay."
3. A lot of the gold price rise in the last 2 years was leveraged money. These longs were asking for a beating. As Sinclair warned many times: do not buy gold with leverage - that's their game and they will eviscerate.
4. FED initiates operation Fuck-Auric last week, instructs traders to sell massive gold shorts, triggering margin account stops all the way down, cascading gold down. Pressure continues on Monday as margin calls add fuel to the gold fire. Gold buyers in Japan lose all gains prior to Abe QE announcement as USD/JPY carry reverses and golfd price in Yen turns negative, stopping the parabolic rally in it's infancy.
5. Central bankers come in to grab some physical bullion. FED bankers and big commericals unwind massive gold shorts and go massively long gold while speculators buy their shorts - suckers! They're picking up pennies in front of a steam roller. They will be flattened when gold turns higher.
6. Collateral damage to physical market acceptable - only a tiny amount of folk have the smarts to be buying physical or not selling out of their longs. The big gold moves are being controlled by the soveriegns and their agents, the bullion banks.

I think we will hit bottom very soon. Much lower prices put too great a strain on the bullion banks and risk a COMEX/LBMA default. Then again, that may be the plan all along. If that happened, the big winners would be China and Russia, because I don't think the FED has anywhere near the 8,000 tons they claim. Even if they do, with everyone happy with their allotments of gold, the reset can begin: COMEX/LBMA defaults, all physical gold sales stop, paper gold price vaporizers, and physical gold price skyrockets. Dollar is effectively devalued by 50% or more.

Anyway, I'd appreciate other ideas on this, to flesh it out. We are still not certain of who's behind this and why: what is the endgame here?

Stock Markets Up, Gold Down – Is Something Wrong With This Picture?

I think you have some good angles on this Dr M. I can tell you the end of the game.... so the end game can be figured out. The end of the game looks like this:

One massively evil narcissistic bastard ruling the world with a money system that controls every facet of life.

The end of the end of the game comes very quickly after this but as the throes of trama experienced during childbirth, we will be thrust to and fro with pressures eventually forcing us into a new world beyond the new world order.


To usher in this new world order, the baby must be birthed by pain and pressure. The cold and bright reception must become better than the dark warm and comforting environment we now have. Pain and pressure will drive the simpletons onward and those too simple will be euthanized on the march. A large part of that experience includes removing all wealth from the commoners.

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Originally Posted by mick silver

Stock Markets Up, Gold Down – Is Something Wrong With This Picture?

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Yeup... surreal. But those who think their wealth is protected in those accounts will be shocked to see it vanish. Wealth- if it can be seen it can be wanted; if it can be wanted, it can be stolen. The controllers will not be denied their worldly rewards.